Episode 1186 - Sam Tallent
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuckadelics what's happening merry christmas happy holidays happy the things hey uh yeah have a good thing have a good thing you guys open the things i'm doing nothing for christmas zero
Marc:The only thing I remembered about Christmas, generally speaking, this time of year in the past, was that everything quieted down and it felt a little desolate and lonely.
Marc:Well, guess what?
Marc:It's been almost a fucking year of that, so no difference, really, from where I'm sitting.
Marc:I'll probably eat some bad things.
Marc:That's what.
Marc:Enjoy the bad things you put in your face.
Marc:Merry Christmas.
Marc:I hope you get a nice present.
Marc:Look, I don't want to be edgy.
Marc:How's it going, man?
Marc:I hope you're doing okay.
Marc:I don't think that I express perhaps enough gratitude to you folks, to the people that listen, to the people that reach out to me.
Marc:I want to do that now.
Marc:I want to do it right now.
Marc:OK, I want to tell you that how deeply and I'm serious.
Marc:I appreciate all the emails that have been sent to me in light of what I've been through this year.
Marc:All the emails that that state how much what I do makes a difference in people's lives.
Marc:I want to thank you for the presence, for the cards, for everything.
Marc:I swear to fucking God, people.
Marc:The God I don't believe in.
Marc:I swear to fucking Santa.
Marc:He's not real either.
Marc:I swear to fucking Satan.
Marc:Well, that might... He knows where I live.
Marc:But I'm tremendously grateful to all of you for being in my life and for reaching out to me in my time of profound sadness and for listening to this show on this Christmas Eve.
Marc:And I really don't think I could have made it without you.
Marc:I came here first.
Marc:I've been here all along.
Marc:You know, Brendan and I have been making shows, new shows twice a week for over a decade.
Marc:And there was no stopping it, no matter what I was going through, because in my time of need and pain, shame, panic, whatever it is in my time.
Marc:of whatever I'm going through this year, like many of you, fear, panic, grief, sadness.
Marc:I came here.
Marc:This is where I come.
Marc:I come to this place.
Marc:To me, this is a safe place.
Marc:To me, this is my space.
Marc:This is how I connect with myself and with others.
Marc:I connect.
Marc:I find my way to me through you.
Marc:Not tremendously healthy, maybe a bit codependent, perhaps a tad narcissistic.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But this is where I express my truth.
Marc:and struggle with it and and you guys bear witness and i think many much of the time it's entertaining it's it's whatever it is to you connects i just want to thank you in this holiday season for being there for me you listeners i feel like i should read a whitman poem now but i'm serious uh happy holidays be careful
Marc:I'm very happy today on the show.
Marc:I have a fellow comedian, a guy I didn't know.
Marc:I didn't know at all.
Marc:I had never met really.
Marc:um our paths didn't cross he's a younger man than i but i was sort of uh turned on to him because a couple of people that i know and respect uh stanhope and kreischer were sort of like i someone was edging me on to read this guy's book sam talent is the fellow's name he's a denver comedian who wrote a real book a novel called running the light about a comic
Marc:But I think the reason I like this book, and I'll tell you about it, is that his guy, the guy he invented, Billy Ray Schaefer, was a road comic.
Marc:He was a road comic.
Marc:I'll speak to him as if he's real.
Marc:And this is the guy that Sam Talent invented in his book, Running the Light, that he self-published, which I'll talk to him about.
Marc:But this is a guy familiar to us comics who started out
Marc:In the system as it was established back in the day.
Marc:There was a time before alt comedy and before everything broke apart into a boutique content providing portals where everybody could build their own audience from three to thousands.
Marc:There was a time where you paid your dues a certain way.
Marc:And I've talked about this.
Marc:You guys have heard this.
Marc:You came up through the clubs.
Marc:You did your open mics.
Marc:You did your opening spots.
Marc:You did your feature spots.
Marc:You did your road work as a feature, as an opener, and then as a headliner, A room, B room, new headliner, old headliner.
Marc:That was the system.
Marc:And then you did the road.
Marc:And this guy that Sam created, Billy Ray Schaefer, is a road comic.
Marc:A road comic that had his moment and then drifted into oblivion of his own making and of the business.
Marc:But always had, you know, a glimmer of respect and was a mythic presence in the stories of younger comics and other comics.
Marc:The guy that did the crazy shit, the guy that was out of control, the guy that was always sort of like, did you hear about what fucking Billy Ray did?
Marc:I thought that was John Fox.
Marc:No, it was Billy Ray.
Marc:I thought that was Ollie Joe Prater.
Marc:No, it was Billy Ray.
Marc:Wasn't that Teddy Bergeron?
Marc:No, it was Billy Ray.
Marc:I thought that was Frankie Bastille.
Marc:Nope, it was Billy Ray.
Marc:Was that Doug Stanhope?
Marc:No, man, I'm telling you.
Marc:That happened to Billy Ray Schaefer.
Marc:He invented that guy.
Marc:The guy who's out there.
Marc:Doing the shitty one-nighters.
Marc:Doing the weekends at dead clubs.
Marc:Doing the drugs.
Marc:Doing the booze.
Marc:Breaking him.
Marc:Breaking himself down.
Marc:And as a protagonist, I was moved by the authenticity of it, that thankfully it was a road, that it was a path I didn't take.
Marc:You don't usually choose that path that chooses you.
Marc:You don't know which path you're going to be dragged down once the fucking door shuts behind you, leading to things that you could have done with your life.
Marc:You don't know what's going to be dragging you or how you're going to be dragged.
Marc:This is a book about that.
Marc:This is a book about stand-up comedy.
Marc:In the realest sense, post-1980 stand-up comedy, the time when we all came up.
Marc:I came up in the old style, in the clubs.
Marc:Alt comedy happened while I was in the middle of my self-crushing behavior, and it became an outlet.
Marc:But many of us started out in the old system, and many of us knew a guy like the guy that Sam Talent invented.
Marc:Many of us were that guy for a while.
Marc:A few guys my age anyway.
Marc:But it was always a cautionary tale because we'd see them.
Marc:Like, dude, where you been?
Marc:What the fuck happened to you?
Marc:We'd see them.
Marc:You see them now.
Marc:The living, breathing, cautionary tales.
Marc:We don't even want to ask too many questions.
Marc:What's up, man?
Marc:Still alive, huh?
Marc:Still alive.
Marc:That used to be the answer the drug warriors had back in the day when I started in the 80s.
Marc:How's it going, man?
Marc:Still alive, brother.
Marc:It was almost expected that we push it.
Marc:A lot of people didn't survive.
Marc:But I found the book to be a beautiful rendering of a dark reality of our profession, of our craft.
Marc:Some call it an art.
Marc:Of our hustle.
Marc:Of our place in the entertainment business.
Marc:So I asked Sam if he wanted to do the show.
Marc:Not only did he want to do the show, he he wanted to travel to do it.
Marc:So we both kind of decided, OK, let's do it.
Marc:He's a compulsive tester married to a doctor.
Marc:I get tested every week or so.
Marc:I think we both had tests within the last couple of days of doing this.
Marc:And we sat down and did it old style, man.
Marc:We did it old style.
Marc:But it felt familiar to me.
Marc:You know how it is when I talk to comics.
Marc:And we were talking about a comic that he invented that I knew, that we all know of my generation.
Marc:We all know this guy.
Marc:We all know the Billy Ray Schaffers.
Marc:We know him by name, man.
Marc:I spent time with that guy in a lot of different forms.
Marc:I've met that guy in several different versions.
Marc:You know, the book is called Running the Light.
Marc:It's available now at Sam Talent.
Marc:It's talent with two L's.
Marc:T-A-L-L-E-N-T dot com.
Marc:Sam Talent dot com.
Marc:I did read a chapter for his audio book of this undertaking, and I got to meet him and talk to him because he came over.
Marc:And we're clean.
Marc:We're both clean, man.
Marc:Clean of the bug.
Marc:This is me and Sam Tallent.
Marc:So, buddy, I appreciate you driving all the way out here.
Marc:That's commitment, man.
Guest:Yeah, dude.
Guest:Well, I don't know.
Guest:You don't want to Zoom WTF.
Guest:That would have been a dumb move.
Guest:And a lot of my friends have been here, so I was like, well, I'm going to go do that.
Guest:It's like a pilgrimage, honestly, dude.
Guest:Your podcast is seminal, you know?
Guest:Oh, thank you.
Guest:And I'm not blowing smoke.
Guest:I remember being very, very destitute and afraid from doing stand-up, and then going home to my very bad apartment.
Marc:In Denver?
Guest:Yeah, in Denver, right there in the Queen City, and listening to your interviews with... I've listened to your interview with Norm.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Maybe a hundred times.
Guest:It was all that was on my phone at one point.
Guest:Your interview with Norm and your interview with Killer Bees were all that was on my phone once.
Marc:You better, what is it?
Marc:Better save up, man.
Marc:Better save up, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, Bees is the man.
Marc:He's an animal.
Marc:He was something, man.
Marc:And I was so thrilled.
Marc:It was one of those things being the guy that came up during that time.
Marc:When I came up, you'd go down south and you'd see his pictures, his dumb pictures.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Killer Bees, right?
Marc:And you'd be like, who the fuck is that guy?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:No idea, and I don't really know that I knew who he was when I interviewed him, other than I knew he was a guy.
Marc:I don't know if he knows himself, man.
Marc:Yeah, that's true.
Guest:He's pretty deep in it.
Marc:But how is it that I never met you?
Guest:Did we meet?
Guest:We've never met, no.
Guest:Isn't that weird?
Guest:I don't think so, because by the time I was in a position to maybe open for you, you were already doing theaters.
Guest:Is that true?
Marc:That's true.
Marc:So how long have you been doing it?
Guest:I started in like 2005 doing improv classes and then did stand up and then took like a strange sabbatical to a commune in Ithaca, New York.
Guest:Huh, what happened?
Guest:How'd you hit the wall?
Guest:What caused that?
Guest:College, man.
Guest:I was not one for higher education and my best friend moved to Ithaca.
Guest:So we were in a band together and I was like, well, I'm not doing anything worthwhile here.
Guest:So I'll just go up there and we'll live in this weird anarchist commune and like share a closet.
Guest:And they had an abattoir out back that we could practice in at all times.
Guest:So we just dove into the band real hard.
Guest:An anarchist commune.
Guest:Is that a lot of like, there was a lot of piercings.
Guest:There's a lot of signing your rent check in blood, like hypocrite on the memo line.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Marc:That kind of stuff.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was pretty much one old horny dude who wanted to bang everyone.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Didn't matter.
Guest:And then he had a house somehow.
Marc:So they...
Marc:So there was a plan?
Marc:There was a guy?
Guest:There was a guy, yeah, Bob Wolf Young 2.
Guest:Bob Wolf Young 2.
Guest:Yeah, his first name was Bob Wolf, and his last name was Carl Young, but with a two, the number two was legally in his name somehow.
Marc:And this guy somehow convinced how many people?
Marc:Well, I mean, it fluctuated.
Marc:People coming in and going out?
Guest:A lot of coming and going, man.
Marc:He'd fuck anything.
Guest:Oh, for sure.
Guest:Yeah, me and my buddy Clay, we shared a closet there.
Guest:He was like, so who's going to take this room and who's going to have the closet?
Guest:And we were like, well, we both want to split the closet.
Guest:And his eyes lit up.
Guest:He was just thinking about all the wild sex me and Too Tall were going to have in there.
Guest:Who's too tall?
Guest:My buddy Clay DeHaan, who was in the band with me.
Guest:His name's too tall?
Guest:Well, he's like six, seven.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:He's a real string bean of a man.
Guest:What's that guy do now?
Guest:He works on this mushroom farm that I have.
Guest:You have a mushroom farm?
Guest:Yeah, I started a mushroom farm at the beginning of COVID.
Guest:For healthy mushrooms or psilocybos?
Guest:Not psilocybin, just like gourmet mushrooms, red oyster.
Marc:Oh, gourmet mushroom, but not like the kind, the reishi, not the reishi mushroom.
Guest:We have a couple bags of reishi in there, but it's mostly lion's mane and like red oyster.
Guest:Lion's mane, that's an eaten mushroom?
Guest:Yeah, it tastes like scallops.
Guest:It's bizarre.
Guest:Scallop tasting mushrooms?
Guest:Yeah, it tastes like bad lobster.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:It's pretty cool.
Marc:And the oyster mushrooms, I know.
Guest:Yeah, we don't have any of those.
Marc:Oh, do you have the hens something?
Marc:We don't have any of those.
Guest:A hand of the woods?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, we have a bag of those going too.
Marc:Just a bag?
Marc:Doesn't sound like a big farm.
Guest:It's not.
Guest:It's in a building.
Guest:Is it in your closet?
Guest:No, a lot of good stuff's happened.
Guest:My grandpa got bored when he retired, and he just built houses all over.
Guest:So this is a house on my parents' property in the country, who we just put a bunch of mushroom stuff in there.
Marc:So is it a moldy house now?
Marc:It's literally a moldy house.
Guest:No, it's cleaned out.
Guest:Oh, it's cleaned out.
Guest:Yeah, we got a cat to kill all the mice.
Guest:It was a real operation.
Marc:And you have some mushroom beds.
Guest:No, we do the bags.
Guest:So you have like a fruiting station and then you have bags.
Guest:A fruiting station?
Guest:Yeah, where you get the small mushrooms to bud in there.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:My brother-in-law and our scientists are in there like every day.
Marc:You're just a working partner?
Guest:I was a angel investor, if you will, because I had like $12,000.
Marc:All right, so let's go back to the beginning.
Marc:Now, look, I want to know, because I got this book.
Marc:You had sent it a while back, and I just was sort of like, I don't know what this is.
Marc:Interesting cover.
Marc:I get a lot of books coming in.
Marc:I'm sure.
Marc:And then somebody on Twitter, was it Bert Kreischer or Stanhope, someone mentioned it again and looped me in somehow, right?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And then I responded to you, or did I respond to them?
Guest:You just put up a public tweet that was like-
Guest:I got the book and I was like, oh shit, this is it.
Guest:It's happening, man.
Guest:You did it.
Guest:You delivered the goods.
Guest:I was manifesting stuff.
Marc:Oh yeah, you really were?
Marc:In the mushroom house, you were manifesting?
Guest:Oh dude, the mushroom house is good for having some epiphanies.
Guest:Well, yeah, so Stanhope got behind it real hard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he championed it.
Guest:And he was telling me to send it all to types of people.
Marc:For Stanhope, it's almost a cautionary tale.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:If he wasn't a real outlaw, it could have been him.
Marc:No, it's his memoir.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If things took a little... If they went sideways at the Aspirin Comedy Festival in 1999...
Guest:I remember that festival.
Guest:He would have been this guy.
Marc:When he was running around with the Santa hat on and closing naked.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I was like 13 years old.
Marc:It must have been that one.
Marc:Was that the one where he kind of made a break?
Guest:I think so.
Marc:Right.
Marc:i remember seeing him there i didn't know who he was but everyone was talking about him because he'd get naked by the end of his show yeah and then he just he was just running around aspen with a fucking santa hat on and i had immediate resentment of him because i had no idea what he what he did you thought he was a carny yeah he was a carny or like i just was i was upset with the with the closing naked business in my mind i didn't see it but i'm like that's a prop act yeah like he's not much of a prop i've seen him nude
Marc:But he's turned into something, that guy.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:So he got behind it early, huh?
Guest:Yeah, Mishka Shubali told me to send it to him because Mishka helped me figure out.
Guest:Who's that guy?
Guest:He's a troubadour singer-songwriter who wrote a bunch of books and was championed early by Audible.
Guest:So we're friends from working the road and stuff.
Guest:But you self-published?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:See, that's the thing that we should talk about at some point.
Marc:But let me get some background.
Marc:So you grew up in Denver?
Marc:I grew up in Elizabeth, Colorado on the Eastern Plains.
Marc:And what is that?
Marc:Is that like a town of seven?
Marc:What is Elizabeth?
Marc:800 people.
Marc:Okay, so it's small.
Marc:And a big family?
Guest:The talent family?
Guest:The talent family is real close, but not that big.
Guest:I got like five cousins.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Grandpa and grandma on both sides were really heavily involved.
Guest:Yeah, I got a sister.
Guest:Little Sophie.
Guest:She's tough as hell.
Marc:Were they farmers or what?
Guest:No, my mom worked for the Federal Reserve Bank, and she would drive to Denver.
Guest:Okay, so it's not far from Denver.
Guest:It's like 45 minutes.
Guest:It's a bedroom community, is what it's called, where people work in Colorado Springs or Denver, and then they just have their kids there.
Guest:Right, and they live out there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:My dad ran a bank, but he quit to raise me and my sister.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:bank people yeah you come from money people but not like investor people like manage people who help manage the money for others yeah and like my dad you know he worked at the small town bank so sometimes people would pay liens with pigs and cattle and stuff like that he'd bring the pig home my dad would have to be like well i don't know how many pigs is worth a home but uh we'll figure it out
Marc:So we briefly had a pig farm.
Marc:It reminds me of Jay Mascus's dad was a small town rural dentist.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they would pay in potatoes and things.
Marc:Their honey.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:Here's some money from the farm.
Marc:Yeah, Jay's the man.
Marc:He's great.
Marc:Hell yeah.
Marc:He's a sweet guy.
Marc:He's been on here twice.
Marc:Oh, I know.
Marc:I always liked that.
Guest:I know about it, dude.
Guest:I'm right there.
Guest:And it's crazy to go from those days to now you have Glenn Close and Michael J. Fox-
Marc:The Zoom thing has enabled me.
Marc:I thought it was going to be a liability, but it's made it easier for larger stars to just do this.
Marc:Right, and they're bored.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:All right, so you're in Elizabeth near Denver, but you don't seem like the standard mess of a person.
Guest:No, no, man.
Guest:I was lucky.
Guest:My parents ruled, my grandparents were there, my aunts and uncles.
Marc:Nice loving family.
Guest:For sure.
Marc:Because when I saw this book and I started reading, I'm like, this is not about this guy.
Guest:No, man, not at all.
Guest:I mean, it's the guy that I fear turning into.
Guest:Well, we all do.
Marc:We all do.
Marc:And there are times for some of us where we're not sure if we are that guy or not.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I worry about it a lot.
Marc:You do?
Marc:Well, because I do 45 weekends a year on the road.
Guest:I know, but you're either this guy or you're not.
Guest:No, I'm not like the Coke guy.
Guest:But I'll definitely drink way too many light beers in Cincinnati after a bad show on Saturday.
Guest:At Go Bananas?
Guest:Hell yeah.
Guest:I'll be there New Year's, everybody.
Marc:Are you doing shows now?
Guest:I haven't done one show since June, and those were all outdoor shows in Wyoming and South Dakota.
Marc:Yeah, I haven't done any.
Marc:I'm sadly surprised at how little I'm compelled to go out and do outdoor shows or drive-in shows or anything.
Marc:Well, they're very bad.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's like in my mind, I've worked my entire life to never have to do those again.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For some reason in my mind, I've done those before.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You have.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:Like, I just remember doing the San Francisco comedy competition at some fucking winery outdoors.
Marc:I'm like, that's no place for stand-up to happen.
Guest:No, and also, you're an intimate act.
Marc:I know, exactly.
Marc:There's no way I could pull it off.
Marc:Like, when I did a couple of those oddball festivals, I could figure out which jokes I could do to land and have the experience, but not preferable.
Marc:No.
Marc:It was just something I needed to get out of the way.
Marc:It's not good for anybody.
Marc:No, I performed for 20,000 people.
Marc:Not great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Also, these Zoom shows, man, it turns out that I'm a live act.
Marc:Let's put it that way.
Marc:I've never tried them.
Marc:I can't do it.
Marc:You don't need to.
Marc:You made it, dude.
Marc:It seems so sad, man.
Marc:Yeah, they're bleak.
Marc:But do you have people unmute to laugh at least?
Guest:They'll bring in like three designated laughers.
Guest:Three?
Guest:Yeah, but then they have to laugh at everything or they're blowing it.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like a juiced room for a JFL tape.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:A juiced room of three?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In separate rooms?
Guest:Yeah, and there's one guy who's definitely being paid to laugh.
Marc:Oh, no, really?
Marc:That's what it feels like.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or maybe he's just uncomfortable.
Marc:It's a lot weighing on him.
Marc:I remember doing those late night shows where there's nine people, and you always get somebody who feels bad.
Mm-hmm.
Marc:So they've got to kind of do double time.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:They feel bad that they're there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And that you're there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And they came to see you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But they also want to help.
Marc:For sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We got this, buddy.
Marc:What'd you do in Elizabeth?
Guest:I played sports and ate a bunch of drugs.
Guest:You were a football guy?
Guest:Yeah, football, wrestling.
Guest:I played sports year-round, but football was the big one.
Marc:What's your background?
Marc:Are you an American Indian?
Guest:No, I'm a quarter Mexican.
Guest:Quarter Mexican?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My grandma's from Wagon Mound, so she's one of those weird cave Mexicans down there.
Marc:Wow, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What is that?
Marc:Not a Spanish Mexican, indigenous Mexican.
Guest:Yeah, they didn't know they were in America until a census person showed up.
Marc:And told them?
Guest:Yeah, and they were like, you get mail now.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and they were like, what are you talking about?
Marc:They lived in a cave.
Marc:And you can use this money.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they tried to give them maize.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So she married this old hobo named Ova, my grandpa.
Guest:And they were interracial.
Marc:A Denver hobo?
Guest:He was like a, what was it?
Guest:Somewhere in Missouri hobo.
Guest:But he would just hop trains back and forth to Philadelphia and send money home.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:Because Denver's like hobo central.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, because I-70 and I-25.
Marc:And then the train back in the day.
Marc:So you got the hobo grandfather and the cavewoman grandmother.
Marc:That's pretty exciting.
Marc:This turned into a pretty decent Southwest story.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then what about the other side?
Guest:They were not as interesting.
Guest:I mean, they were cool.
Guest:My grandpa was from Mississippi on my mom's side, and then my grandma was from somewhere in Ohio.
Marc:They ended up in Colorado.
Marc:Colorado is a mixed bag, isn't it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I grew up in New Mexico and, you know, you get up, we'd go up to Durango and then go up to, but you get up northern, it's pretty white.
Guest:Incredibly white.
Guest:And also Denver's a very segregated city.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Big Klan presence.
Guest:Yeah, there's something, big Klan presence?
Guest:Well, when it was founded, it was run by the Klan.
Guest:Denver.
Guest:Yeah, like in the early 1900s.
Marc:I just feel there's that sort of weird kind of like, are you just really healthy or are you Christian?
Guest:That's the springs.
Yeah.
Marc:It's tough to tell down there.
Marc:It is, but there is sort of this kind of like mountain bike, you know, always wearing, you know, some form of workout wear.
Marc:I'm short to you around.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're sort of like, God, you have a clarity, but is it the good kind?
Marc:Right.
Marc:What are you running from?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I always go to like, what are you selling me?
Marc:Like there's an immediate sense of I'm being condescended to by some spiritual bully.
Marc:It's always a lot of judgment.
Marc:Yeah, something.
Guest:But there's a politeness to it.
Guest:I mean, it's a real thin veneer of politeness.
Marc:But I like Denver because there's still like a cowboy presence to it.
Marc:Like downtown Denver, I've never seen more fucked up people on a weekend night than maybe Glasgow is the only other place that I've seen that much public drunkenness.
Marc:But I think the altitude and their legal weed.
Guest:We're the drunkest city in America, but also the healthiest city in America is what they say.
Marc:I went to, like fucking Doug Benson did a 420 show before my show when last I was up there.
Marc:They needed paramedics for two people, and that was the afternoon.
Guest:Dude, you should, the park, Civic Center Park on 420 is this 10,000 people, and people are just dropping like flies.
Guest:They'll take like a 15-gallon bong rip and then just collapse, and everyone starts clapping.
Guest:That was the goal.
Yeah.
Marc:I think a lot of it, too, is people not being able to handle their edibles.
Marc:They don't know what they're getting into.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, my advice is always eat a little bit more than you were told to if you're a tourist.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because if you're going to buy the ticket, take the ride.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But the ride might just be like the hotel room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It might be, you know, in the back of an ambulance.
Guest:You're going to panic.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:There's going to be panic and maybe some nausea.
Marc:So when do you make it down to Denver?
Marc:So you played the football?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then what, you go to good college?
Guest:No, I thought I was going to play football in college, but I didn't.
Guest:So I went to Metro State University, which is a commuter school right downtown in Denver.
Guest:And it wasn't for me.
Guest:No.
Guest:What were you studying?
Guest:What was the plan?
Guest:Rhetoric and public address.
Marc:Oh, so you kind of knew.
Marc:It was starting to come together.
Guest:Well, I wanted to do comedy.
Marc:You knew that already?
Guest:As a little kid, I wanted to do comedy.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Why'd you know that?
Guest:Because comedy was a really big deal in my family.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like Fred Willard and John Candy and all the stripes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Ghostbusters was a very big deal.
Marc:But stand-up?
Marc:Well, no.
Marc:I was going to do Second City.
Marc:Oh, the plan was improv.
Marc:I wanted to do that.
Marc:So you learned about that as a kid?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Was your dad a hipster?
Marc:100% a hipster.
Guest:intellectual guy uh yeah but someone you could also crack a beer with until he got sober uh-huh yeah um so he went far he did it he did it for sure yeah yeah and he would he had like you know spin and rolling stone and all those magazines come to the house there was one time man where how old are you man i'm 33 so your dad was like just a little older than me for sure yeah he was born in 55 i'm born 63 mm-hmm
Marc:So he's actually of the generation that saw some action in the sense that bonafide hippie shit.
Guest:Yeah, definitely.
Guest:That's what Elizabeth is.
Guest:It was part of the Brushfire Rebellion where a bunch of hippies moved to the country and pretty much bought up the town so they could run the city council.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was part of that?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Well, he was from there, so he just kind of got grandfathered in.
Yeah.
Guest:put his hair out and you're like you're one of us no my grandpa didn't stand for that shit oh no no long hair oh that was that's where he drew the line yeah he would wear overalls without a shirt that was as far as he went and old school alcoholism no drugs uh i think he would smoke weed and they they well my mom and dad ate my mom was from cleveland and she ate you know mushrooms and xl acid and stuff like that so they did it not when i was around so much
Marc:Before you were born?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Yeah, they did the journey.
Guest:For sure, yeah.
Guest:They went deep, too.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, my mom was around Kent State when all that shit was going down.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:She hated the cops.
Guest:It was really cool.
Marc:So was Joe Walsh and the guy from Mother's Bar, Mark Mother's Bar.
Guest:So Joe Walsh played my mom's senior prom.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, James Gang.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Oh, man.
Guest:And I think that she said that she had beef with Chrissy Hynde.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:I know that she said she hooked up with Drew Carey one time.
Guest:Oh, that's not something you want to tell too many people.
Guest:Good point, yeah.
Guest:Just name dropping people that my mom hooked up with.
Marc:I was hoping for more rock and roll, but Drew, I guess, is all right.
Guest:Yeah, no.
Guest:But my dad, he was into all the cool music and all the good books.
Marc:So that's where you got it.
Marc:Because I read this book, I'm reading it.
Marc:My thing is, as a guy that's written a couple memoir kind of books, a novel seems way out of my fucking wheelhouse.
Marc:But one of my best friends is a novelist.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm always like, you know, it takes a lot for me to get through.
Marc:It has to be very well-recommended fiction for me.
Marc:So when I saw this, I'm like, eh, a comic wrote a book.
Marc:How good could this be?
Marc:And it's self-published.
Marc:And it's self-published.
Marc:But the cover is pretty compelling.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Marc:Richard Ingersoll.
Marc:Who's that?
Marc:He's a kid that I grew up with.
Marc:Oh, it's great.
Marc:To the point where my friend, the novelist, Sam Lipsight,
Marc:His son saw this book because I sent it to Sam.
Marc:I had two copies.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Because I found the one that you'd sent like a year ago.
Marc:And I sent it to Sam, who's a great novelist.
Marc:And his son saw it and was like, oh, that covers fire.
Marc:That's what I got.
Marc:Fire?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's what I want.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And this is a kid that don't read.
Marc:They're trying to get him interested in shit.
Marc:So, yeah, you got him halfway.
Marc:That's a big deal.
Marc:But so I start reading it, and I'm like, oh, my God.
Marc:This is about us.
Marc:Like, it's not a memoir.
Marc:It doesn't feel like a memoir at all, but it is about the world of comedy.
Marc:No one's written about this.
Marc:No.
Marc:About this part of it.
Marc:And this is a real part of it.
Marc:You know, this guy is probably a couple years older than me, it feels like, that generation.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:where they were around for that 80s boom, and a lot of them thought they were going places, but then they weren't.
Marc:And then the boom sort of receded, and with their own particular problems, they're left to scramble for a livelihood in one-nighters.
Marc:Yeah, they were shipwrecked pretty much.
Yeah.
Marc:But I knew this guy.
Marc:And the way you sort of blend in real dudes at certain points where I'm like, you're going to put Rick Kearns in here and Rick Kearns is the guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, if anyone's the guy, it's that guy.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Kearns is the man.
Marc:But he's not quite even that guy because, you know, he did, he escaped into radio for a while.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, some of those dudes from the 80s, you know, figured out another way.
Marc:And he got into radio.
Marc:I guess he had some health issues.
Marc:Like, I did the San Francisco comedy competition with Kearns and I was driving him around.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:And he's a mind fucker, dude.
Marc:Like, you know.
Guest:I don't know, man.
Guest:I don't know if I'm going to be able to do it.
Marc:And he'd get you so fucking bummed out by the time he got to the gig.
Marc:He'd be like, you all right?
Marc:And I'm like, I'm not.
Marc:And then he'd go up and he'd fucking brain fuck you, that guy.
Guest:So I've only known positive Kearns.
Guest:And now he's taking a dark turn, of course.
Guest:He has.
Guest:Yeah, like his daughter did stand up in Denver and I'm friends with Elise and then Rick came out of retirement pretty much and would come to open mics and just watch comedy.
Guest:It's like, who's this old creep?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just, you know, drinking vodka straight.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And then, yeah, he was ended up being very helpful to me and a bunch of Denver comics because he loves comedy.
Marc:He's hilarious.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:He was one of the great unappreciated acts.
Marc:He's definitely one of the Billy Ray Schafer's of the world.
Marc:Definitely.
Marc:Who's the protagonist of your novel.
Marc:But yeah, Kearns is like, there's a couple of those guys that were like Kenny Rogerson's another one out of, he was in Boston when I was coming up.
Marc:You had that great live episode.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And Kenny was like fucking great actor.
Marc:He was so fucking funny.
Marc:And Kearns, too.
Marc:Kearns I would see when I was a doorman at the comedy store sometimes.
Marc:But then when I got to San Francisco and he came around, but his delivery was great.
Marc:He's a rare thing.
Marc:He's a rare kind of cranky guy.
Marc:The cranky guys that are funny and don't have to work for it, that's a rare type.
Marc:And they should be cherished at all costs.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because it just doesn't happen that often.
Marc:There should be a statue of Kearns in front of comedy workers.
Marc:Didn't he have fucking major health issues?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He's a bad booze hound.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's not fun.
Guest:He's still that way?
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:He'll call me and be like, I got a new bit.
Guest:And then he'll repeat it like three times in an hour.
Marc:It's brutal.
Marc:I thought he was sober for a while, was he?
Marc:He was sober for a while.
Marc:No.
Marc:The last time I saw him, he's like, I sold my whole act to Ron White.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:He did.
Guest:For like a quarter of a mil.
Guest:I think Ron wrote him a check at dinner.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Ron writes a lot of checks for people.
Guest:Yeah, Ron's the man.
Guest:I work with Ron a lot.
Guest:Do you?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:He's cool.
Guest:Yeah, he's great.
Guest:We did a couple shows at Pootie's Roadhouse in Texas, which was owned by Willie Nelson's old, like, manager.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Or road manager.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Ron just ate mushrooms all day for the three days we were in this house together.
Marc:Oh, he's just an animal, dude.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He's like an old dude.
Guest:And then he'll have these moments of epiphany, like you're on his tour bus and he's surrounded by people who love him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he'll just say shit like, I'm gonna fucking die, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:nothing's gonna save me and you're like tripping and you got a check in your pocket from him and he's rich as hell and you're like oh ron it's fine he's like it's not fine you don't know anything you're like okay let's get ron a towel of course that's true i sat next to him on an airplane and watched him like ask for more butter and i'm like dude what are you doing
Guest:Yeah, and it's funny.
Guest:He'll smoke eight cigars, but he'll drink, like, Michelob Ultra, so he's doing better.
Guest:And his tequila.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I always feel baffling about the dudes that get into the spirits racket.
Marc:It's just merch.
Marc:Yeah, I know it's merch, but he's got some weird ones.
Marc:He just loves the starch shit.
Marc:He had a ceramics thing in Mexico, right?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:And he's got the tequila.
Marc:I'm surprised he didn't get a restaurant.
Marc:Does he have a restaurant?
Marc:I don't think so.
Marc:I don't think he's a big... He eats a lot of beef jerky and nuts.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, he's definitely amazing that he's alive.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:And he's one of those guys that can fucking, you know, just get up there, do a show in a blackout.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Like, you know, not even know he's on stage kind of dude.
Marc:Right?
Guest:But crush.
Marc:Yeah, crush, totally.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't know.
Guest:I just think maybe your brain gets to a point where it's used to operating that way.
Guest:So he can go from being on the tour bus wearing sweatpants and then put his jacket on and he's on stage and just people can't get enough.
Marc:It's crazy.
Guest:It's something I kind of admire that.
Marc:Yeah, definitely.
Marc:There's something to be admired about a guy who is just swimming in fucking garbage inside and can just go up there like a robot almost.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But kill.
Marc:I mean, that's something that the Schaefer guy does in the book, kind of.
Marc:The number of times you've figured out new ways to describe a hungover sun sky, the number of times you described a sky either through a hangover or through those moments of clarity, it was pretty good.
Marc:You didn't repeat yourself.
Marc:I was surprised.
Guest:Thank you, me too.
Guest:My dad was the editor, so he had a hand in it.
Marc:He made sure it's like, yeah, I think you might use this adjective in the last description of the sky.
Guest:My friend Nathan Lund's in the book, and I called him poor scene like eight times in the first draft.
Guest:Yeah, poor scene?
Guest:Yeah, my dad was like, you got to figure out a new word to call Nathan fat.
Yeah.
Guest:Corpulent, you know, biggish, whatever.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So anyways, college doesn't work out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then you go, what, you're in a band?
Guest:Yeah, so I play drums.
Guest:My dad played drums.
Guest:And I played a bunch of drums in high school with my buddy Clay, who learned to play bass along to my drumming.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he was in Ithaca, so I was like, fuck this.
Guest:I'm going to go up there and just take LSD and be in this band.
Guest:And we toured a lot, and it was a really important thing for me.
Marc:So he was in college.
Marc:This is the commune times.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:So how old were you, like 20?
Guest:I was like 20, yeah.
Marc:I couldn't drink legally yet.
Marc:But you guys were a band that toured a lot?
Marc:All the time.
Marc:What was the name of the band?
Marc:Red vs. Black.
Marc:Records?
Marc:Red vs. Black.
Marc:No, but were there records?
Guest:No, we would burn our own CDs and make our own merch and sell them.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:No records.
Marc:So you were in that loop, the anarchy punk loop?
Marc:We were just in a very sincere loop.
Marc:But I mean, that's who came out to see you?
Marc:Were you opening for people or did you, no?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, I mean, we would go play.
Guest:We only played all ages shows in DIY venues.
Guest:We wouldn't play in bars.
Guest:We weren't ever a hit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:No, I get it.
Guest:But you did it.
Guest:We worked really hard.
Guest:You lived the life.
Guest:Yeah, we really were like, we tried to be like Black Flag and Minutemen in our ethos.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:And we'd show up to these places where kids were wearing the uniform with like the craft patches on and their denim jackets.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I'd be in, you know, basketball shorts and Clay would be in a sleeveless denim shirt.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And we would just tackle the stage and people would be like...
Guest:What the fuck is this?
Guest:They didn't have the synapses yet in their heads to deal with who we were.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that was really cool to freak people out by looking normal.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:Well, that's sort of a tradition for a certain type of punk rocker.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:It's sort of like Mike Watt and that crew.
Marc:Dude.
Guest:Mike Watt, I got tattoos of his all over me.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I love Mike Watt.
Guest:He changed my life.
Guest:I met him once.
Guest:I was at the- Acano, dude.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's my whole life.
Guest:I make all my own merch.
Guest:I print my book.
Guest:It's all because of Mike Watt and Dee Boone.
Guest:But I met him once, and I was downstairs in Mobile, Alabama, and he was upstairs.
Guest:And they told me, Mike Watt is playing upstairs.
Guest:And I was supposed to do an hour.
Guest:I did 15 minutes.
Guest:Up stand-up?
Guest:Yeah, and they were furious.
Guest:And I was like, keep the money.
Guest:I got to go watch Mike Watt upstairs.
Guest:And I totally just Mark David Chapman'd him.
Guest:I just paced by the stage with my arms crossed, like not blinking with this dead eyed look on my face.
Guest:And then afterward he was at his merch booth selling his merch and I went up to him and I was like, Hey, I just, uh, I, you know, you, and he was like, I know big fella.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And he gave me a hug.
Guest:And then like ushered me out of the room.
Guest:I definitely bummed out Mike Watt.
Guest:No, you didn't.
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:But I'm a very sincere.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also I'm huge.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So when those two things come together.
Guest:Right.
Guest:People flip out.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No one's no one's comfortable.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But they know he's you know, he's probably he probably knew you're a good hearted dude.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also I'm sure he's dealt with me since 1981.
Marc:But he's pretty like he's pretty present sort of like in it guy.
Marc:Like, you know, he's got his own language, that guy.
Guest:Yes, dude.
Marc:It's like when I interviewed him, I'm like, he's speaking Mike Watt language.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you've got to kind of figure it out.
Marc:He plays the thud staff.
Guest:He's the man in the van with the bass in his hand.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember when my buddy Clay turned me on to the Minutemen in high school, and we were listening to The Damned and Black Flag and all those bands, and we were like, we know what punk is.
Guest:Because my dad, he played punk when I was growing up, like the Pistols.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That's just rock.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was rock, but also when you're eight and your dad's doing the dishes to the Sex Pistols, you're like, this is the coolest man alive.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Guest:But yeah, we found the Missing Men, or the Minutemen, and we were like, what have we been doing?
Guest:What is this?
Guest:This is mutant rock.
Guest:And then we found Lightning Bolt and all the John Dwyer bands, and it was like...
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We are incorrect.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We thought we had it figured out.
Guest:I'm going to take this Misfits patch off my leather jacket.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And just, we're going to make pilgrimages to like Providence and New York and stuff.
Marc:Yeah, because these are the guys that are going out there.
Marc:These are the astronauts, not the hacks.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they're also sincere dudes.
Guest:Yeah, for sure.
Guest:I always really like when people are earnest in their art.
Marc:Well, those two, Watt and Dwyer are very sincere.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they're very different.
Guest:And they're very masculine without being disgusting about it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:They have integrity.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, because the integrity is that we're going to keep making this music for us.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We don't give a fuck.
Marc:This is what we do.
Marc:This is our shit.
Marc:And maybe we'll find the people who like it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And hopefully they'll love it too.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Or we'll just...
Marc:Well, that's sort of what you try to do with comedy, I think, to some people anyways.
Marc:It's a little trickier because of what you're up against is that you're just talking.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:But that was sort of this... That was interesting about the book, too, was that he had this respect, he had these chops, but he could riff, right?
Marc:So that was his big gift, is that he could rip apart an audience.
Marc:It is a double-edged sword that when you can do that, you can get pretty fucking lazy.
Marc:Yeah, you stink of the road.
Marc:Yeah, but it depends on how hacky you are with it, but sometimes those are the best moments.
Marc:Like, if you... Like, I write on stage.
Marc:I don't know how you do it.
Marc:100%.
Marc:So, like, when you have those moments delivered to you, you're like, oh, my God, where'd that come from?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because you're basically cornering yourself...
Guest:Then you let your ego have to back up what your mouth has gotten you into.
Marc:Sure, and if it's not going well, you've got to figure out instinctively how to get the laugh to get out of the discomfort.
Marc:Or burn it down.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Go down swinging.
Marc:Yeah, just surrender.
Marc:Like, this isn't going to happen.
Guest:Look, I tried really hard.
Marc:look how sweaty i am look how many shirts i've taken off up here but the old time guys would tell you like you know don't acknowledge that like i just don't buy that shit like you know i got freddie roman got on my shit once about whining about bombing you know on while i was doing it i'm like i don't owe them my fucking heart yeah i'll either blame them blame myself but if i can't get a laugh out of the humiliation yeah what the fuck am i doing up here
Guest:Well, that's why we were lucky in Denver, because we had guys like Rick and Chuck Roy, who, if you were complaining at all, would be like, man, you don't know what pain is.
Guest:And then they'd tell you some horror story about being in a crab shack in New Hampshire.
Marc:The crab shack in New Hampshire.
Guest:Well, just those gigs you guys had to do back in the day.
Marc:Well, yeah, there's one-nighters everywhere, you know.
Marc:But that was also, like, the other thing about this book is that, like, some of those one-nighters that, you know, low-level corporate gigs or, like, gigs that, like, you know, bookers, you know, get you, you know, that are, you know, they couldn't afford another act, you know, or colleges that sucked.
Marc:They really wanted Dustin Diamond.
Marc:Yeah, right, right.
Marc:Yeah, he'll bring people in.
Marc:Everyone knows who he is.
Marc:For sure, Screech.
Marc:Yeah, or else they just can't – they don't have the money, so you get pawned off on these things.
Marc:And I was never right for any of those things, so I would do these gigs where it was just like, there's no way.
Marc:These odds are stacked against me.
Marc:I'm not the happy guy.
Marc:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:And I don't like anyone in this room.
Guest:I would never have anything to talk to.
Guest:And I started doing those gigs when I came up.
Guest:I'd go feature for these dudes and, like –
Guest:Wyoming, South Dakota.
Marc:Well, where'd you wait?
Marc:So how'd that happen?
Marc:So you get done with the band?
Marc:How'd that end?
Marc:Did that just fade or was it a dramatic thing?
Marc:No, me and Clay are still tight.
Marc:But you just decided not to pursue music?
Guest:Well, no, so I always played music, but then there's a real loss period, too, because I was eating acid a lot.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, for sure.
Guest:In Denver?
Guest:No, like in Ithaca.
Guest:Well, everywhere.
Marc:The commune?
Marc:It was just the acid thing.
Marc:Yeah, it was cool.
Marc:I would sell acid to those kids.
Marc:I never understood the guys that could get used to acid.
Marc:For me, it was like- You shouldn't.
Marc:For me, it was like the one, you know, the three or four times I did it in my life, it was a lot to build up to.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then it was sort of like, oh, this is, I don't know when this is going to end, but I don't know who I am anymore.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I never understood guys who are like three times a week.
Guest:Well, I don't think we knew the proper dosage either.
Guest:Because like back in the day when you got mushrooms, you had to eat the entire bag.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You wouldn't eat a gram of mushrooms.
Marc:You would eat the egg.
Guest:But with mushrooms, you knew you were going to come down.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I think mushrooms are much more...
Guest:They're much more spiritual, for lack of a better term, whereas Mushroom is like, or when Acid, you're like, I am on drugs.
Marc:I am high on drugs right now.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I moved back to Denver, and me and Clay still had the band, and we started this DIY house, this punk house called Mouth House in Denver.
Guest:Mouth House?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we just had shows every night, and it was just constant.
Guest:Everyone in the house played music, and you could just jam whenever you wanted at all hours of the day.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it was a really creative time.
Guest:It must have been smelly.
Guest:Oh, for sure.
Guest:It smelled like hate and just fear and poverty.
Guest:Booze, sweat.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Cigarettes indoors, nonstop cigs blasting.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We had one toilet for 18 people.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We had one rule there.
Guest:People not washing their clothes.
Guest:No.
Guest:This guy loved to get nude, and this girl that lived there was like, I don't want you getting nude.
Guest:So we had this big house meeting, and we came to this rule that you can be nude, but you can't sit down.
Guest:you can't be put your nude body on the furniture oh that was the that's where you drew the line that was right yeah she was like look i don't mind your body yeah i just don't want you sitting on the chair where i eat breakfast and we were like fair point squatter discussions yeah and we our rent was like 120 bucks and still i couldn't get it together yeah yeah so i just started doing stand-up real hard um that one was the first open mic so this is where you were living you were living in the
Marc:DIY place?
Guest:No, so I started stand-up in 2006, and I was a finalist in the Comedy Works contest in 2007, and it was my fourth time on stage.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:And then I moved to Ithaca and didn't do any stand-up.
Marc:Oh, I see.
Marc:So you started, did a few open mics, entered the competition, and did well?
Guest:Yeah, everyone hated me because I was just like a natural person.
Marc:So your fourth time up, you won?
Guest:No, I bombed.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:In the finals?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So it's three rounds.
Guest:First round, crushed.
Guest:Second round, crushed.
Guest:Third round, totally ate my ass.
Guest:Because it was high pressure?
Guest:No, just because I wasn't a comic.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:I was a fraud.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was a naturally funny fat guy that people were like, oh, we'll listen to him for five minutes.
Marc:You couldn't get away with it for 15?
Marc:What was it?
Marc:I had to go first, too.
Guest:It was seven minutes.
Guest:Seven minutes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You just ate it, huh?
Guest:Yeah, and I was like yelling at the crowd.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No chops?
Guest:No chops.
Guest:Zero.
Guest:Zero.
Guest:I had improv chops, but those aren't good in a club atmosphere.
Guest:Where'd you get those?
Guest:I did improv at the Bovine Metropolis Theater in Denver.
Guest:I did their entire 40-week thing and was on their house team and did their weekend shows and stuff.
Guest:What, the games?
Guest:Yeah, games and long form.
Guest:I preferred long form.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you come out of that.
Guest:But like out of Peyton Holland, he hated me.
Guest:Adam Clayton Holiday?
Guest:Yeah, he was like, this guy doesn't know what he's doing.
Guest:You don't want to be hated by that guy.
Marc:No, he didn't like me forever.
Marc:Because he's a dyed-in-the-wool stand-up, but he's also kind of smarty.
Marc:Yeah, he went to Wesleyan or something.
Marc:I don't think he liked me when he met me.
Marc:And I think he was featuring for me.
Marc:Sounds like Adam.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I did not get the good feelings from him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I went to his 30th birthday party and I gave him a book.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, his book?
Guest:No.
Guest:I knew he loved Jim Thompson.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:So I gave him, I think, The Killer Inside Me.
Guest:And he was like, cool.
Guest:And he threw it in the trash.
Guest:And I was like, all right.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's dick move.
Guest:We're very good friends now.
Marc:I think he's also a guy that got humbled and got nicer.
Marc:Well, yeah, he's had some personal tragedy.
Guest:Yeah, terrible.
Guest:But also even before that, he was sweet, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he started out as a writer.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:A guy who wrote, didn't he write a column?
Guest:Yeah, in the Westward in Denver.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I read it religiously as a kid.
Guest:Did you really?
Guest:Well, from like 18 onward, I was like, this rules.
Guest:I can't wait to meet this guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I wrote him and his crew wrist deep productions a sincere letter about how I really like your shows and I just want to work with you guys.
Guest:And Ben Kronberg told me they made fun of it and put it on the wall.
Guest:So I moved back to Denver and started doing stand-up real hard.
Guest:After the acid rock anarchy punk thing.
Guest:And I was still in bands and eating drugs and living in this house, but I was also out every night doing stand-up.
Marc:In Denver.
Marc:So what were the options as a miker?
Guest:Well, I hosted the Lion's Lair and the Squire.
Guest:lines where i feel like i've been there have i i don't know it's the punk rock bar in denver probably not yeah yeah um so you hosted a stand-up night there yeah i hosted monday tuesdays and wednesdays yeah i got up every night of the week oh someone told me you know if you're not on stage someone else is getting better than you and i'm hyper competitive which fucking animal told you that uh tj miller okay yeah there you go that's why i didn't want to bring it up
Guest:I don't got it.
Guest:It's okay.
Guest:He's like, you know, anyway, TJ's got in trouble is all.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So I don't want to.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I don't even remember what it is.
Marc:I just, I know he had a, there's a woman's problem and then he had a brain problem and then like.
Guest:He had an aneurysm in like 2008.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And now he thinks he's dead.
Guest:He thinks this is heaven and that he's dead.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:See, I, I, he wore me out.
Guest:well he was very generous and like sweet to me early on yeah that's nice and he was like important to the kind of comedy that's a chicago guy he's from denver oh but he didn't come up in chicago yeah uh-huh okay so he gave you a work ethic well he just told me like you know you're not going to be as funny as other people if you take nights off right so i got up i got up i think in 2011 i got up 335 nights that year
Marc:Wow, you count them?
Guest:Yeah, well, I did back then.
Marc:Delray's still counting them.
Guest:That's weird.
Guest:I don't count them anymore.
Marc:He still does.
Guest:But then sometimes people would say, I did a show every night of the year, and I'd just be furious in my room.
Guest:Like, where'd you get up on Christmas?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Where'd you get up on Easter?
Marc:What are you talking about?
Marc:Yeah, you're lying.
Marc:You're exaggerating.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, you know, it's like Rollins, he uses the same mic.
Marc:Like, he knows exactly, like, he has mics that, you know, he knows he's talked through for how many days he's used that mic.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's like, you know, it's magical shit, you know?
Marc:All right, so, all right, so you're getting your hours in.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And what, do you just build up to, what, featuring music?
Guest:No, I didn't want to do that.
Guest:So I would go on the road, and I'd go to New Orleans for a week and do every open mic, and then I'd just crush, like fucking raising hell.
Marc:But how much time did you have?
Marc:Were you cheating?
Guest:No, I had like a half hour.
Guest:I was featuring at one-nighters, like terrible one-nighters.
Guest:That's what I mean, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I didn't want that life of doing those one-nighters.
Guest:And I also wanted to travel, and I didn't have any money, so I was like, I'll just go stay on this couch of this person I met in New Orleans or Boston or Austin.
Guest:From the band days?
Yeah.
Guest:No, I mean, sometimes the band days, but also people come through Denver.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Comics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then once you start killing at these open mics, they're like, hey, if you're ever in town on Wednesday, I have a show that pays 50 bucks and you can close it.
Marc:So you came up in the age of the comic produced show.
Marc:Yes, 100%.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I do work some clubs, but I mostly work comic produced shows and alt rooms and stuff.
Marc:Yeah, those weren't around when me and Billy Ray Schafer were starting out.
Guest:I don't think he would care to do an alt room.
Marc:No, he would be like, what the fuck is that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What do you mean we don't get paid?
Guest:He doesn't know what a podcast is.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would just do these shows and-
Guest:You know, 45 weekends a year, just be somewhere, Omaha, Seattle, and make 300 bucks a weekend and come home.
Marc:So that was the whole circuit.
Marc:It wasn't a club circuit.
Marc:Not at all.
Marc:Yeah, that's interesting.
Marc:Yeah, because I remember that when I started flailing.
Marc:And losing any hope of doing comedy in some ways.
Marc:I remember me and Andy Kindler and Eugene Merman went on a tour of these smaller rock venues.
Marc:And it always felt weird to me.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:Because I essentially came up as a club comic.
Marc:My mistake was not understanding it was a business.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that you had to be nice to club owners.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you had to keep going back to the same places to build an audience.
Marc:I never quite got that.
Guest:I got that, but I did it just the same way I learned from punk rock, which is you go and you play for eight people and then they bring a friend and you have 16.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the next time you might have 30 and then.
Marc:Be a respected guy.
Marc:People have good things to say about your comedy.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:I've watched it.
Marc:It's funny.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I finally got JFL last year after auditioning six times.
Guest:And man, did I have a chip on my shoulder up there, dude.
Guest:Did you?
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, you were like, you know, like, finally, fuck it, what?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was up there and people would be like- New faces?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was unwrapped, new faces.
Guest:And I'd meet managers and agents and they'd be like, we met in LA like six years ago when I was like an assistant to an agent.
Guest:It's like, what are you doing up here as a new face?
Guest:And I'm like-
Guest:Motherfucker, I don't know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I should have been here six years ago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would just walk around to people and I'd be like, hi, I'm Sam Talent.
Guest:Who are you with?
Guest:And they'd be like, CIA.
Guest:And I'd be like, all right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then when they talk to you and they're like, so what do you got?
Guest:What are you working on?
Guest:And I say, I have a novel.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They couldn't walk away faster.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:They don't want a novel.
Guest:They want to know you got a YouTube series.
Guest:That's the thing about managers and agents, which I don't have, is that they want you to do all the work now, and then they'll just come in and swoop you up.
Marc:They always do, dude.
Marc:That's the big myth that they're like, I'm going to make you a star.
Marc:No way.
Marc:It's like they wait around.
Marc:They'll keep you in the, what do you?
Marc:The hip pocket.
Guest:yeah yeah until like maybe something happens and they're like here we go right let's do it look i'm gonna get you into uh cap city comedy and it's like i already headline there i can do cap city yeah like i know rich miller i already know that guy yeah i remember at jfl pete holmes was hosting and he was like what kind of intro do you want and i was like can you tell him i'm at penguins and cedar rapids next weekend did he say i played there no he just i he laughed so hard and he was like you're legit and i was like thank you pete holmes
Marc:Yeah, great.
Marc:Pete Holmes validated you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's nice.
Guest:And to go from Montreal, the issue was I was hanging out with too many Canadian comedians.
Guest:In Montreal?
Guest:I think that they thought I was Canadian.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, and then they don't care.
Marc:Well, I don't think that, like, I don't think it's weird that almost everybody up there is a known quantity already now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's really just one of these sort of weeks of partying for people on that side of the business.
Marc:They don't really give a fuck, nor can they really do anything, really.
Marc:I don't think I had a legit agent most of my career.
Marc:And I finally fired my powerful manager when he played one of the first WTFs.
Marc:And it's like, I don't get it.
Marc:I'm like, I can't.
Marc:I don't know, dude.
Marc:It's like...
Marc:The whole... It's all... What am I trying to say?
Marc:It's... You figure out what you really want out of it, and then you've got to just get it.
Marc:No one's going to do anything for you.
Marc:No.
Marc:And you seem to know that.
Marc:I do know that.
Marc:Now, after being closer to the industry, I know it 100%.
Guest:Well, when you started thinking about writing this book, though, how long ago was that?
Guest:My wife did her first two years of med school in Las Vegas.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In 2016.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I wrote it when I was there over the course of like a year.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But where did you... What experiences were you drawing from?
Marc:Those one-nighters, I mean, primarily?
Marc:Yeah, and just all the horror stories.
Guest:Who were the guys you opened for?
Marc:You mean the horror stories you had to listen to while you're driving fucking tired old headliners places?
Guest:Yeah, and then also just the horror stories that I would accumulate by doing these shows.
Guest:Yeah, like what are the ones you remember?
Guest:Well, like that duck shit bingo story from that book?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's happened.
Guest:That was 100% true story.
Guest:I remember watching this big fat car and he put his duck back in the cage and I knew what I got paid and he's just over there counting money and I really wanted to slit his throat.
Marc:That was like when I was reading them like this is one.
Marc:There's no way.
Marc:Oh, yeah There's no way the duck shit bingo story can be top of man.
Marc:Where did that happen?
Guest:Have it in Greeley, Colorado Wow.
Guest:Yeah, that was the one I thought you made up no dude That was legit all these shows.
Guest:I've done.
Marc:Yeah for sure You know what fucking hit me though was that the weird couple that dress cuz I met that couple in Texas.
Marc:Yeah, what is it?
Marc:Yeah, Florida, Texas.
Marc:The one I met was in San Antonio.
Marc:They both come up to you like, so what do you got going?
Marc:I'm like, I'm not fucking your wife.
Marc:I'm not.
Marc:That's what they want too.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Every time.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But you're hotter than me, dude.
Marc:Why do you want to watch me plow your wife?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, but when I read that, I'm like, this is real.
Marc:And I don't know why they pick comics.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Maybe they just, I don't know what it is.
Marc:I think they think that we're debauched.
Marc:We're debauched and broken.
Marc:And we're lonely.
Marc:And we'll probably be up for it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We're like, it's almost predatory.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's he going to be doing by himself?
Guest:And then they're like, don't put this in your act.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:They're like licking their lips.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like, don't worry.
Marc:I don't want anyone to know about this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that poor guy, the poor fake guy, Billy Ray Schaefer, is all fucked up.
Marc:But he goes back and there's almost a moment there when he's fucking kicking that guy's ass.
Marc:You're like, take it easy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is uncalled for.
Marc:This guy took you in and fed you top shelf gin.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:He gave you his wife.
Marc:And he didn't even... I don't even think... It suggested... I don't know how you see it, but they didn't roll him.
Marc:He left it there.
Marc:He left his wallet.
Marc:Fucking idiot.
Guest:Yeah, definitely.
Guest:But I've also been the guy who has his wallet and he lost it, and then you're just homicidal until you remember that you left it at your friend's house.
Marc:But just all the... His...
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:Like when I read it, I really think that not enough can be said about the the the part, the world of comedy it captures, because if you're in it like you were in it and like I was in it, like Stanhope was in it, guys who came up my generation, guys you open for and some of the experiences you have.
Marc:I mean, this is what fucking comedy looks like.
Marc:Mm hmm.
Marc:This is what it was.
Marc:There were all those guys out there in the 80s where you're like, I don't know what happened to that guy.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:And guys like Frankie Bastille, who you've heard me talk about, he was like one of these guys.
Marc:There were literally guys on the road that were... Frankie Bastille did not want his name in the paper or on the marquee because he owed back taxes and he owed child support.
Marc:So he didn't want to be known where he was.
Marc:That's crazy.
Marc:And he's a comic.
Marc:He's on stage publicly.
Marc:He's the guy that got nailed when somebody heard him on a radio show.
Marc:The IRS went and got him because he was on a morning radio show or an ex-wife.
Marc:I can't remember which.
Marc:But this whole world of road comedy and what it kind of...
Marc:Became and this is a guy who did the tonight show with all the promise in the world.
Marc:I like the ex-con trip I mean, I like the fact that he was in jail I think that's one of those things where it really rang true to me like when you know When you hear about a comic like oh, you don't know you don't know about that guy Yeah, what about he's in fucking jail man, and then he started doing comedy in jail like no shit Like Joey Diaz right yeah, did he do time?
Guest:Oh, yeah for like kidnapping
Marc:I must have talked to him about that.
Marc:I can't quite remember.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And he was in Denver.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:His whole story is in Denver.
Marc:All the cocaine stories.
Guest:I always loved the fact that you were surrounded by freaks and scumbags and mutants and pirates.
Marc:That's what people don't get about.
Marc:about that era of comedy.
Marc:It's not just like people who didn't fit in or nerds or just social oddballs.
Marc:Some of these dudes were fucking criminals, man.
Guest:They couldn't do anything else.
Marc:Nothing else.
Marc:And it was like people who get into preaching.
Marc:Either that or prison, what's your fucking hustle?
Marc:So many of these guys were just doing it to live.
Guest:And they figured it out.
Guest:And it's a romantic lifestyle.
Guest:You're somewhere every night, somewhere new.
Guest:Is it though?
Guest:I really find the romance in stand-up.
Marc:It took me years to be happy to be away from my home.
Marc:I'm like, I'm just going to be in this hotel room.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:But it used to be I'd get out there, not unlike this guy, Billy Ray Shaver, where...
Marc:Yeah, I mean, there's a romance to it, but it's also this weird type of loneliness that happens when you're staying in that fucking hotel, the cheap hotel in the part of town where you can't fucking go anywhere.
Marc:You're not near anything.
Marc:Or worse, it's connected to a mall.
Marc:But there's a type of loneliness that is above and it's beyond good and evil.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's a high lonesome.
Guest:And yeah, you kind of turn into like Colonel Kurtz by the end of the weekend.
Marc:Yeah, but it's only a weekend.
Marc:That's the weird thing.
Marc:It's like as soon as you get to that hotel, you're like, oh, where do I go to be bad?
Guest:It's a horror.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's so fucking, it's not, it's so weird and dumb.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also like, it's really hard.
Guest:I'm sure everyone talks about it where you get off stage after being the best thing to happen to that room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then what are you going to do with all that adrenaline?
Guest:The worst.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Once I got sober, it was just like fucking ice cream and candy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just load up on shit and bring it to the room.
Marc:You should be immense.
Marc:You should be a big fat pig.
Marc:Well, I didn't like it.
Marc:I never felt good about it.
Marc:But it's like you don't know what to do and you do want to do something.
Marc:And that's how you get into trouble.
Marc:And that's how this guy with the cocaine.
Marc:When I read this, I just remember not being able to sleep.
Marc:Like because you can't drink yourself down from cocaine.
Marc:The cocaine is going to always outspeed everything else.
Marc:So unless you've got downers, you're fucked.
Marc:And like when I was reading this shit, I was like, oh, that morning thing.
Marc:That's terrible.
Marc:And you got to start drinking again.
Marc:Like he really reminded me of that dude and money, which is a good thing where you're sort of like, can he live like this?
Marc:At least that guy in Money was rich.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you started to realize, oh, this is the device.
Marc:This guy is all the bad appetites.
Guest:Definitely.
Marc:But this guy, Billy Ray Schaefer, is a guy you know.
Marc:I know this guy.
Guest:Well, every comic reads the book and they're like, hey, is this about X and someone I've never heard of?
Marc:Who have they listed?
Marc:Who have people asked you about?
Guest:Uh, well, I don't, Troy Baxley comes up a lot.
Guest:I don't know that guy.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:Baxley was, he was like one of the Kings.
Guest:Is he dead?
Guest:No.
Guest:Oh, uh, he's holding on somehow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's a medical miracle.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And he was in Denver, but he worked the road all the time.
Guest:And a lot of people would be like, this happened to Baxley.
Guest:Did you know that story?
Guest:I'm like, no.
Guest:They're like, yeah, he fell off a bar stool and broke his nose open and then had to go on stage.
Marc:That was Tom Rhodes too.
Marc:Well, see, you got one too.
Marc:No, Tom Rhodes, that's what got him sober.
Marc:He fell off a stool and broke his face and realized it was time to crit.
Marc:No, the story I heard about the guy with the bloody nose on stage, that's either, I've heard it, John Fox was who I heard about.
Marc:Ollie Joe Prater, too.
Marc:Prater, too?
Marc:Yeah, when the nose starts bleeding.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Doesn't anyone party anymore?
Marc:I heard that was John Fox.
Guest:You heard it was Ollie Joe?
Guest:I think it happened to both of them.
Guest:You've heard that story of Ollie Joe where he was underneath the blanket and it caught on fire.
Marc:I don't know that one.
Guest:He got too big and fat to get up the stairs.
Guest:So he would just sit on stage underneath the sheet and he would smoke cigarettes under there.
Guest:And one time he lit the sheet on fire and it was just revealed in a ball of flame that he was on stage the entire time.
Marc:When he's like, oh, yeah, with the canes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Hobbling Ollie Joe Prater, dragging other people's jokes from town to town.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Everyone in Denver has stories about Ollie Joe taking their jokes.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Did he start there?
Guest:No, but I think he came through a lot.
Marc:Because Denver's weird.
Marc:That's a long time ago, dude.
Marc:That's before my time.
Guest:Well, there's nowhere to go between Chicago and L.A.
Guest:So it's Denver.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Or it's like Omaha or Salt Lake City.
Marc:But Denver's sort of a real city.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And John Fox was another guy.
Marc:John Fox-
Guest:Oh, boy.
Guest:I've only heard stories about him.
Guest:The mayonnaise jar thing.
Marc:Yeah, the mayonnaise jar, right.
Marc:Yeah, don't ever eat mayonnaise on the road because John Fox blew his load into a jar of mayonnaise.
Marc:I was going to be vulgar about it.
Marc:Yeah, then... But there's, like... I just remember, like, one time we...
Marc:And I just remember we were at a table.
Marc:We were doing drugs.
Marc:It was like a bunch of people.
Marc:But I think it was a Kennison night.
Marc:And for some reason, John was there.
Marc:And we're all talking about the road.
Marc:And you know how you start comparing stories, but there's always the one story you're like, what the fuck?
Guest:Like, my God.
Marc:And John Fox, like, you know, it was like after a few stories, like, yeah, man, you know, when you're on the road and you got a hairbrush stuck up your ass and you're jerking off and you're like, God, I hope I don't die like this.
Marc:And there's just that moment where everyone's like, what?
Guest:They tap out.
Guest:All right.
Marc:Yeah, you win.
Marc:You win, John.
Marc:But then next time you're on the road, you're like, how do you put a hairbrush up your ass?
Marc:What kind of brush was it?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:How does that fit up there?
Marc:Is that a good thing?
Marc:This one's a rubber handle.
Marc:How much coke do you got to be on to enjoy a hairbrush up your ass?
Marc:But yeah, yeah, those guys.
Marc:But who are the other cats?
Marc:I mean, I know that Norm plays a part in the book as Norm.
Marc:And I remember Rick.
Marc:I don't know if I knew any of the other Denver guys that are actual real guys.
Marc:Who were they?
Guest:Like Kevin O'Brien and Nathan Lund are friends of mine.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know those guys.
Guest:They're my generation.
Marc:Oh, they were in the dressing room with Norm?
Marc:Yeah, they're on the show.
Marc:But isn't there sort of like oral history where you actually have comics telling stories?
Guest:Yeah, I had like Phil Palisal and Nora Lynch.
Marc:Yeah, I met that guy.
Guest:You've probably met Phil.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Hippie Man's in there, John Novosad, who is the best comic to come out of Denver.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, and people, like, I remember one time I was mean to Bobcat Goldthwait because he was, like, Hippie Man opened for him the night before when Bobcat came back, and I was having lunch with him and Caitlin Gill, and he was like, yeah, and this, like, old road hack opened for me, this guy Hippie Man, and it's like, first of all, he's the king, and second of all, your name's Bobcat Goldthwait.
Guest:You're going to be mad at a guy for having a nickname?
Guest:And Caitlin had to, like, she, like, grabbed my leg under the table and was like, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill.
Guest:Well, you know, Bobby, you know, he gets a little snotty.
Guest:He's been great ever since.
Guest:But I remember getting my cockles up because you don't talk shit about hippie man.
Marc:Well, I think that it's a weird thing that like, you know, it's definitely, there's something about those old timers that, you know, like it's not about their material after a certain point.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's about their perseverance and their sort of humility from, you know, just decades of humiliation.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That, you know, you got to respect the legend is what it is.
Guest:Well, also, but Nova said, he writes new stuff all the time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, I don't know.
Marc:Look, I think it's very difficult.
Marc:Like when people who do comedy, when I meet young people, I'm like, well, you know, there's only a handful of guys who are going to make a real living.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Doing the standup.
Marc:So if you've got a knack for writing shit, figure out a way that, you know, you can continue to work.
Marc:Or just get really good at TikTok.
Yeah.
Marc:It doesn't matter.
Marc:I don't even know what that is.
Marc:But there's some dudes that I started with that, I mean, I know what it is, but I'm not on it.
Marc:But there's some dudes I started with that are big showrunners.
Marc:They're big writers.
Marc:They got on the other side of it.
Marc:You got to be a real irresponsible, self-involved fuck to decide, I'm just going to do the stand-up.
Guest:Yeah, this is what's real.
Guest:This is pure.
Guest:That's me.
Guest:Me too, man.
Guest:I'm so glad I had this book or else I'd be broke right now because I made all my money off stand-up.
Marc:Yeah, I'm fucking proud of you for writing the goddamn book like a real novel.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Jesus Christ.
Marc:I couldn't write for other people.
Marc:I couldn't see.
Marc:Now, I didn't even like to collaborate.
Marc:That'll happen later.
Marc:I'm bad at that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm bad at collaboration.
Marc:But now I'm doing the acting thing here and there, and it's like, I don't know.
Marc:You pivoted.
Marc:It worked out or I pivoted because like something like some weird cosmic timing finally worked out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The desperation of talking to my peers.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:So this book you wrote how long?
Guest:Like probably a year.
Guest:I wrote 150 words of a different thing.
Guest:And then the first chapter of this book was part of that.
Guest:And then I was like, this shit's bad.
Guest:I'm going to follow this guy around and then just cranked him out.
Marc:Well, I like that, you know, and I don't think it's just because I'm a comic that, you know, it's not so much you're rooting for him, but you're like, wow, how far is this going to go?
Marc:You know, where does this go?
Marc:And that the details about who he was, you know, in terms of these kind of guys, the ex-wife, the, you know, the sort of selfishness, the kids that they don't know, like all of that stuff seemed, it all rang very sort of true.
Marc:And the psychology of the character seemed to hold up.
Marc:I know it wasn't going to end well.
No, yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:I don't think anyone got their fingers crossed.
Guest:I also don't like books that end happy.
Marc:No, I like this.
Marc:It reminds me of Bruce Wagner.
Marc:Have you ever read any of Bruce Wagner's books?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:The ending of his first book, Force Majeure?
Marc:Jesus Christ.
Marc:You would like that shit, man.
Marc:I would.
Marc:I love bleak novels.
Marc:Bruce Wagner, there's a few.
Marc:There's a Hollywood trilogy, but Force Majeure, the first one.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He got a little complicated.
Marc:He's a real smarty pants.
Marc:I like when a guy talks about a book and they go, yeah.
Guest:It's like reading Larry Brown.
Guest:It's like, this guy just risked his life for $400.
Guest:I love that shit.
Marc:And you gave me this book, the Cormac McCarthy Blood Meridian.
Guest:Yeah, Blood Meridian.
Guest:I got to read it.
Guest:It's the best book in the English language, I think.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:At least in the American canon.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I think it's tops.
Guest:And I read Moby Dick and this is better.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:So who are your, so he's one of your guys.
Guest:Cormac McCarthy and Dennis Johnson.
Guest:Dennis Johnson.
Guest:And Simon Jones.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Cool.
Guest:I read that book and Angels and this book, The Dig by Sinan Jones, over and over again while I was writing my book just to know what a good novel sounded like.
Marc:But you didn't find yourself glomming?
Guest:Oh, dude, for sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I didn't quite notice.
Marc:I don't know those writers, so I wouldn't know.
Guest:Well, there's a part in there where I start using colons instead of periods because I was reading Graham Greene.
Yeah.
Guest:I was reading Brighton Rock, and I was like, damn, he uses colons.
Guest:Really cool.
Marc:I just like the consistency of the character and where you took him.
Marc:It really kind of goes somewhere.
Marc:And there's just the scenes... That fucking vibe of... Not that anybody needs to know this or that it's just me or that I'm only going to relate to this, but that...
Marc:that feeling of sitting around when everything everything is done just thinking like that shit's gonna turn around if i could just get some blow if you're on blow and it's 230 and you're like this is just about to happen yeah and there are no options no but real sad ones yeah yeah and what are you gonna do and that all that shit what was that weirdo the guy who rolled him
Marc:Is that based on a real guy?
Guest:So that's based on a guy in Denver.
Guest:And he gets rolled right behind Mouth House in Denver in Five Points.
Guest:Your place.
Guest:Yeah, that old house I lived in.
Guest:And that guy, he was just a creep.
Guest:He used to hang out at Mouth House and smoke speed.
Guest:He would steal all of our light bulbs and smoke speed out of them.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like with the hat.
Marc:uh what was he wearing in the book i can't remember he's wearing like a trench coat right right but he was a character a creepy character yeah no good yeah this guy would wear fingerless gloves and a leather cowboy hat right that's what yeah yeah that's the detail and uh and poor uh poor billy ray was too fucked up just looking for a party man that's the fucking problem with that good time charlie
Marc:So tell me about the, cause I, you know, I don't, I guess self-publishing is a mixed bag.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:It's very shameful.
Marc:No, it's not shameful.
Guest:I think it is.
Guest:I was deeply ashamed to have to self-publish this book.
Guest:It's my biggest failure, I think.
Guest:I mean, uh, Mishka got me an agent who was very like powerful in memoirs and he loved the book.
Guest:Who is that?
Guest:Oh, this guy, Bird Leovall.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Um, and he loved the book and he sent it off to people and they were like, who's going to read this book?
Guest:And I was like, well, fans of standup will probably read this book.
Guest:And most podcasts are hosted by standups.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I could probably get on some podcasts and promote it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they were like, eh, we're not going to take a chance on your first novel.
Marc:Take a chance.
Marc:I mean, they don't give you any money for your first novel anyways.
Guest:No.
Guest:Taking a chance.
Guest:And thank God I didn't publish naturally because now I've achieved wealth.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, the thing about publishing is that like then it comes out and then you got to rely on a goddamn, you know.
Marc:Publishers Weekly.
Marc:Well, no, there's that in the Kirkland or whatever it is.
Marc:Kirkus.
Marc:Kirkus Reviews.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But the in-house publicist.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Who doesn't want to be doing that job.
Marc:No.
Marc:And a lame-ass book tour that is not going to really sell books.
Marc:No.
Marc:So wait, so you self-publish.
Marc:How do you do that?
Marc:Because it says the too big to fail press.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So that's just something you created?
Guest:That's my publishing company, which is just what I get my checks through now.
Marc:Oh, so okay.
Guest:So you set up an LLC?
Guest:S Corp.
Guest:Oh, an S Corp.
Guest:My father.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:He's stoked.
Guest:He's cooking the books.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:So to self-publish, walk me through the steps of that.
Marc:So you got the full book.
Marc:It's edited.
Marc:You're ready to go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I just did it through Amazon.
Guest:Amazon KDP, you can upload a book to that and pick out your cover.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:You pick out a cover?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I had the cover designed by friends and family.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And they just run it off per order?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, you know- How much do they charge?
Guest:They charge like $5 a book.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I order them in lots and then people buy them off my website at samtalent.com.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And then I ship and package everything myself.
Guest:But they can also get them on Amazon.
Guest:They shouldn't.
Guest:If you're a listener and you want this book, go ahead and get it at samtalent.com.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because Amazon doesn't give you a lot of money.
Guest:I see.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So there's a ceiling to that?
Guest:So Amazon gives me, I think, $6 a book.
Guest:And if you buy off my website, I make, I think, $17 after shipping and everything.
Marc:What other merch you got?
Guest:I got shirts on there.
Guest:I got sweatshirts.
Guest:I got beanies.
Guest:You can also go to cofungus.com and get some mushrooms from us.
Marc:Oh, yeah, so you're moving the fresh mushrooms to the gourmet outlets?
Guest:Fresh mushrooms and, you know, you can get lion's mane.
Guest:It's like, what's that called when you take it to feel better?
Guest:Oh, I don't know.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:You know, like GNC, not stimulants, supplements.
Guest:Supplements.
Marc:Yeah, they're a supplement.
Guest:You have lion's mane supplements?
Guest:Yeah, and then also we'll send you a fruiting block of mushrooms and you can just put it in your kitchen and cut it open and you've got mushrooms.
Marc:All right, so where's the stand-up right now?
Guest:I'm an author now, dude.
Marc:I'm done with that racket.
Marc:You lived the life through Billy Ray Schaefer.
Marc:Dude, it's so funny.
Marc:You've retired.
Guest:You've hung up the hat.
Guest:Yeah, dude.
Guest:I've listened to your show since you were doing like Pepitone at the end of every episode.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:You know, like way back in the day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I've always like, yeah, dude, I got to get on Marin.
Guest:Like, this is a big goal.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:This feels good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But to be on here as an author first in a comic second is totally a merit experience.
Guest:I'm like, fuck, man.
Guest:If I knew I had to just write a great book, I would have done it a long time ago to get on here.
Marc:Well, I mean, I would have found you eventually.
Marc:I think, you know, I don't know.
Guest:I'm just kidding, man.
Guest:It's an honor for sure.
Marc:But like there's a generation of comics who I don't know.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, and it's like, I wish I did.
Marc:I felt like there was a time where I knew everybody.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But that was a long time ago, and I didn't know everybody.
Marc:Like, I don't know who Troy is.
Marc:Mm-mm.
Marc:You know, but it's just a generational thing.
Marc:But no one's doing much comedy now.
Marc:It's weird, though, man.
Marc:But how do you feel about... Because, like, I'm wrestling with a thing now where...
Marc:Like, I wonder if I'm done.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think a lot of people are.
Marc:But also, not because of the COVID, but because my last special, that's the best I can do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm going to go from... I can come from a different place.
Marc:I think I'm changing in certain ways, but I'm not able to work through anything on stage, but maybe that's making my heart bigger.
Marc:Because I'm not sure that getting up on stage four nights a week, I think it's probably...
Guest:emotionally psychologically more stifling than it is sort of uh uh growing yeah i don't know well also we've had a whole bunch of time to like have introspection that was forced on us by not being out there and giving yourself away every night right because i i don't know any other life besides being gone three nights a week home for four but i'm loving it dude like being with my wife sleeping in our same bed yeah going swimming riding my bike like getting healthy having a life yeah having a legitimate life without like without like the
Guest:that well here's the thing i and i talked about is like like i know no one's doing it yeah so i can relax because so much of it is sort of like well fuck he's out there every i got it they're out i gotta fuck right you know that kind of weird i'm hyper competitive i know exactly what you're talking about or like you'll see your friend you'll be like oh shane torres is at this club but i can't get in there fucking sean patton got acme what the fuck that guy kicked me out of there for like a decade yeah i know about your acme issues
Guest:That rules.
Guest:You're back though, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's okay, man.
Guest:Take a breath, Mark.
Guest:You got it.
Guest:It was also funny on your Instagram live, you were talking about the book and I was like, Oh, this rules.
Guest:And then you were like, yeah, Sam talent.
Uh,
Guest:I don't know if he gives a shit about my comedy.
Guest:And I was like, just come on, man.
Marc:He's mentioning Stanhope and Christ.
Marc:Yeah, that's how insecure I still am.
Marc:That's the same with all of us.
Marc:I'm not in the book.
Marc:I didn't make the book.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But it is weird how that kind of stuff sticks.
Marc:But yeah, the reprieve has been kind of interesting.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:But then I got on those Instagram lives to get that juice.
Marc:I still wanted that juice.
Marc:It's not about the audience.
Marc:It's about the thinking on your feet thing.
Marc:I think that's what I miss more than anything else is the immediacy of having to do it.
Guest:And your body was getting some kind of drug response from it.
Marc:I guess.
Marc:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:But it was just like I'd gotten so I didn't get comfortable, truly comfortable on stage until, you know, within this last decade, decade, within the last, you know, I mean, I was faking fearlessness forever.
Marc:And then at some point it gave way to real kind of like, oh, I live up here.
Marc:But it's not it wasn't my whole career.
Marc:It's like within the last eight years.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Oh, yeah, man.
Guest:I mean, I'm the same way where I write on stage and I can't write a joke.
Guest:I have to improvise.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And it's better that way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's got to be a lot of stress on our hearts, dude.
Guest:Yeah, you think?
Guest:I mean, just think about that stress.
Guest:Every night, that stress response that we're giving our bodies, sometimes twice a night.
Marc:I know, but usually when you get that first... Okay, so when you work like that, you've got the idea.
Marc:So you put the idea out, and usually that's enough to keep you going with it.
Marc:So you're getting a laugh on the idea.
Marc:And then you're like, you know, let's see how that conversation unfolds.
Marc:So after a certain point, it's not as much of a strain on your heart because you're just trying to build on this fucking idea, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's sort of exciting.
Marc:But also, I always want to fucking crush, dude.
Guest:Like, I need to kill when I'm on stage.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And if I'm not crushing, I'm doing everything I can to crush or I'm burning the house with me.
Guest:I'm going down in a ball of flame.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know.
Marc:I think I stopped...
Marc:thinking about crushing and was more concerned with honest laughter.
Marc:Because there's a pace you have to maintain to crush.
Guest:Yeah, definitely.
Marc:And I could see how that could be a strain, whereas I just like to be in my pace.
Marc:I don't want to... I'm not gonna...
Marc:I got used to be that way.
Marc:I got kind of got hit.
Marc:I got hit.
Marc:I got crank it up.
Marc:I got to put this one in there.
Marc:I'm going to lose him.
Marc:And like so I got to a point where I just sort of like my pace is good enough and this shit's funny.
Marc:I know I'm funny.
Marc:So I want I want to be organic.
Marc:I don't want to do the trick.
Marc:I don't want to pace.
Guest:you know i don't want to yeah doing the trick does feel dirty every time you do it like when you know your trick yeah and you're like oh back here again yeah fuck write a fucking joke dude just furious at yourself oh you made fun of that guy's hat again cool nice callback to this guy's i used to do it at the store all the time it's like oh fuck it feels a little tight i'm just gonna open with those those ones that i know work here yeah definitely then you just hate yourself
Guest:While you're on stage, embarrassed at yourself.
Marc:Right.
Marc:If I get one good one, as long as I don't do the whole set like that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But then you sort of rationalize.
Marc:You're like, but this is a good joke.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:You're like, I still got it figured out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It is a relief.
Marc:So how long have you been married?
Guest:I've been married since 2016.
Guest:She's a doctor?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:What kind of doctor?
Guest:She's a family medicine doctor.
Guest:a general practitioner gp yeah well it's family specifically uh she's her first year resident in fort collins we're in fort collins now my brothers live in there oh yeah yeah it's beautiful man it's a great city he's liking it yeah i'm really glad that we got in there instead of eau claire wisconsin wow she the mayo clinic sniffed around her oh for oh for the residency yeah i was like baby i love you i want you to be successful but you're close to family too right yeah hour away
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:My brother just he's he just landed in Fort Collins after a lot of, you know, he finally kind of landed on his feet and he's digging it.
Marc:Come through, man.
Marc:I will.
Marc:He's like, you know, he's up there.
Guest:It's beautiful.
Guest:You like to ride bikes?
Guest:Well, I like to hike.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You got it.
Guest:Horsetooth Reservoir.
Marc:That's what I hear.
Marc:The bike riding thing, I can't do it.
Marc:There's too many guys my age with their little superhero outfits on.
Guest:They love it.
Guest:It's ridiculous.
Guest:It's their whole identity.
Guest:It's ridiculous.
Guest:Then they'll see me chugging along on my five speed.
Marc:I just see them up on the hike that I take.
Marc:I'm like, what are you guys doing?
Marc:Do you call each other about the outfits?
Marc:Who's this for?
Marc:How?
Marc:I guess it's easier on your shit.
Marc:The coordinating.
Marc:Well, no, to bike.
Marc:Like, I hike and I can feel it beating my bones up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think the biking is supposed to be, it's better for your joints, I think.
Guest:Correct.
Guest:Right?
Guest:That's why I do it.
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:Because I'm so immense.
Marc:But how far do you got to bike to get a good fucking buzz?
Guest:I'll blast like an hour.
Guest:You just put on a podcast and hit the trails.
Marc:I was on Zeppelin today.
Guest:It was all Zeppelin today.
Guest:Man, I was blasting Lightning Bolt in the desert on the drive here.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Getting pumped.
Marc:Good?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is that the new one?
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Lightning Bolt's this band.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:I thought it was the new ACDC.
Guest:No, dude.
Guest:ACDC sucks.
Guest:Well, they didn't used to.
Guest:Well, these two cage fighters that I know from Arkansas, they were out at my house a couple weeks ago.
Guest:I told them ACDC sucked, and they wanted to pants me and push me over.
Guest:Really?
Marc:I'm a big fan of all the records, all the Bond records and Back in Black, but then I kind of drift.
Guest:It doesn't sway, and it doesn't rock hard enough.
Guest:It's just big riffs.
Marc:I guess, but I like the... I think he swings.
Marc:I think Phil can... I like that beat.
Marc:Yeah, sure, man.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:I appreciate your take on it, and I'm not going to judge you on it, but I will stand by the first six ACDC albums.
Marc:I'm going to disrespectfully disagree with you.
Marc:That's fine.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But tell me about this lightning foot business.
Guest:oh lightning bolt there's a drum and bass band that makes it's like it just did the old guy thing it was just lightning head that you get half the word wrong what is this lightning rod thing that you enjoy what's this thunder nose they're just they're the most important band to me oh really yeah I love them where are they from
Guest:They're from the same Fort Thunder that John Dwyer started at when he was in Pink and Brown.
Guest:They're out from Providence.
Marc:Oh, from Providence, not pre-Bay Area John Dwyer?
Guest:Yeah, before he moved out here.
Marc:I think I did all right with John.
Marc:You crushed.
Marc:It was so cool, man.
Marc:Because I just got him to be himself.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Got to slow that guy down a little.
Guest:Because I listen to him sometimes in interviews, and I'm like, all right, John, we all know you're the coolest guy ever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Let's just be a person.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It took a while.
Marc:Well, I think the fact that we shared a girlfriend.
Marc:That was a revelation.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She didn't talk to me no more.
Marc:It's all right.
Marc:It happens.
Guest:You guys gave each other what was necessary at the time.
Marc:I'd like to look at it like that.
Marc:But then you would think that through that, with that disposition, why can't we be social?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Or at least say hi.
Marc:Or at least, why can't I not feel like there's another person out there hating me?
Guest:It does weigh on you.
Guest:It does.
Marc:All that psychic trauma on your personal Christmas tree.
Marc:Dude, when you've lived the life, that's the one thing.
Marc:Like even in sobriety, it's like there's still, I'm not saying they're waking up hating me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But there's still people out there where someone goes, do you know Mark Maron?
Guest:Like when you're talking about that Wagner guy's books.
Guest:Oh, I know him.
Guest:Yeah, I know him.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You don't have no kids?
Guest:No kids.
Guest:What are you going to do?
Guest:We're going to have kids.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I guess you're young.
Guest:I've fought it for a long time.
Marc:Well, now that you realize you don't have to do comedy anymore.
Marc:It's a relief.
Marc:Now that you're like, maybe I'll work through that.
Marc:That's the other fucked up thing about it.
Marc:Because I've always been a guy that's sort of like, don't say that comedy is therapy.
Marc:It's not.
Marc:But there's some part of me having this forced downtime where I'm like, maybe I'll work through it.
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Maybe I can be myself.
Guest:The therapy thing doesn't piss me off.
Guest:When people call it art, I get upset.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I never cop to that.
Marc:It's a part of the trick.
Marc:I don't know if I'm an artist.
Marc:I mean, the only thing that makes me an artist is that I'm inconsistent.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Marc:Damn, all right, now I'm on board.
Marc:You figured it out.
Marc:Yeah, that's the only part.
Marc:The rest of them are just doing the fucking dance.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm glad to be in L.A.
Guest:and enjoying it, because every time I come out here, it's a nightmare for me.
Guest:Yeah, I got to meet.
Guest:How long have you been out?
Guest:I got here yesterday.
Guest:Are you going right back?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm going to see some friends tonight.
Guest:It's hard, right, because of the COVID?
Guest:Oh, yeah, I can see two of them, my wife said.
Guest:Chris Sharpentier and Danny Maupin, a couple of buddies.
Wow.
Guest:I usually come out here, though, and I'll be auditioning for something with a bunch of young, precious comedians, and I see their act, and I'm like, I'm going to fucking bury them.
Guest:I get out there and do my act, and people are like, what the hell?
Marc:Chill out, man.
Marc:Well, that's the thing is if you're too funny, then they're like, we don't get really ... They don't see you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:unless you're sort of half tanking, right?
Marc:Because if you just kill, you're like, oh, I'm the guy doing the job.
Marc:You must be the other guy.
Marc:That's that great line in fucking The Departed.
Marc:It's like the only good line in The Departed where they fuck up the sting.
Marc:We don't cut cameras around back.
Marc:What do you mean there's no cameras around the back?
Marc:And the guy goes, who are you?
Marc:He's like, I'm the guy doing his job.
Marc:You must be the other guy.
Marc:Yeah, Alec Baldwin's so good in that movie.
Marc:That was Marky.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:That was Mark.
Marc:Yeah, but Baldwin was good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But Wahlberg, I'm always, like, when Wahlberg sinks his teeth into something, it's fucking good.
Guest:I can put that movie on and my wife's ready to go.
Guest:What, Departed?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She likes it?
Guest:She really likes that movie.
Marc:You know, it's a little fragmented for a Scorsese movie, but I do enjoy the performances.
Marc:She gets worked up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The only problem with it is it's like Nicholson is like a clown.
Guest:Oh, for sure.
Marc:It's just like it's done.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:They could have, you know.
Marc:It's almost like it's bad.
Guest:He's just doing eyebrow acting the entire movie.
Marc:But it's just like when he's throwing up the powder, I'm like, come on.
Guest:This isn't for you.
Marc:Chill out, man.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, how do you feel?
Marc:Do you feel we did it?
Marc:I think so, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was great seeing you.
Marc:It's a true honor.
Marc:And remind me, I'm going to give you a mug.
Marc:I don't get to hand out the mugs anymore.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So you get to have one of the Brian Jones special hand-thrown mugs for the guests here.
Guest:Man, that's a true joy.
Guest:Yeah, it's a tradition.
Guest:But hey, by the way, listeners, buy that book at samtalent.com.
Marc:Oh, yeah, it's a great book.
Marc:Like, you did a great job, and you're a real writer.
Marc:And I was excited to give it to my friend Sam Lipsight, who I respect a great deal.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because he's a lofty guy.
Marc:He's one of those guys.
Marc:You've got some of the same talent, same heroes.
Marc:He's a big...
Marc:Who's the guy you mentioned?
Marc:Dennis Johnson.
Marc:Dennis Johnson, Barry Hanna.
Marc:Oh, Barry Hanna.
Marc:Stanley Elkin.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Those are all his guys.
Marc:I got to hang out with this guy, man.
Marc:He's great.
Marc:You don't have any of his books?
Marc:Uh-uh.
Marc:Oh, I got to give you one of his books.
Marc:That's the thing about books, man, is there's so many.
Marc:But he's got tight tone, tight voice, funny, dark comedy stuff.
Marc:Hand it over.
Marc:Oh, fuck, yeah.
Marc:I'll dig up a book for you.
Marc:All right.
Marc:But yeah, I don't have to sell it again.
Marc:I'll sell it when you're gone.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Good talking to you, Sam.
Marc:You too.
Thank you.
Marc:There you go, man.
Marc:It's funny that all the live ones I've done over the last year are really with comics, except for Wayne Coyne.
Marc:Isn't that right?
Marc:I think it is.
Marc:The book is Running the Light.
Marc:You can get it at samtalent.com.
Marc:That's talent with two L's.
Marc:I'm going to grind out a little Christmas Carol here on my new Gibson SG Captain Model.
Marc:It was a gift.
Marc:It was a beautiful gift.
Marc:And the guitar was, and I just got it, and I've got to figure out how to wrap my brain around it.
Marc:This is straight into a dirty tube amp.
Marc:This is only one sound of the seemingly endless number of sounds I can get out of this motherfucker.
Marc:It's black with gold hardware.
Marc:The Captain SG.
Marc:Dig it.
Marc:I ain't no Bonamassa.
Guest:guitar solo
Guest:guitar solo
Guest:Boomer lives.
Guest:Monkey in the Fonda.
Guest:Cat angels everywhere, man.
Guest:Cat angels.
Happy holidays.
Happy holidays.
you