Episode 1182 - Brad Williams
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:It's me, Marc Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:This is me, Marc Maron, after working, I was on set
Marc:Today, I'm sorry, how are you?
Marc:Everything all right?
Marc:I'm out in the world in this fucking COVID tsunami working like a fucking idiot because I chose to do so.
Marc:I chose to believe that protocols were in place that will protect me on this set.
Marc:I chose to believe people who told me you'd probably be safer on a movie set than you would be going to Trader Joe's or Ralph's.
Marc:I chose to do it.
Marc:I did not know when I chose to do it that it would be the fucking escalating peak of the plague.
Marc:But now I'm in it and I have to accept my choices and do the work.
Marc:I'm grateful to be working, but terrified on another level.
Marc:But I've let that go because I made the choice.
Marc:And they do seem to have their shit together with the masks and the shields and the testing.
Marc:Godspeed.
Marc:God willing.
Marc:I will not get this fucking bug.
Marc:I didn't start thinking about it again until the end of the day.
Marc:I got up at five, had to drive an hour and 15 minutes out to the edge of the desert to this little shitty hotel, this rundown old dump of a hotel that is the set for the next week or so.
Marc:I'm only shooting 11 days on the movie.
Marc:And for some reason, it's not unfamiliar.
Marc:to the glow hotel was a shitty little hotel you're always wondering like do people live here and it's sad but that's where we're out out there that's where we're at out there in the dust on the edge of the world and i gotta be honest with you man and it saddens me but i think most people in this country live in borderline squalor
Marc:And it's fucking disturbing and unfair and sad.
Marc:But there we are out there making a movie.
Marc:It's a human story about a woman with trouble.
Marc:And I've been working with Andrea Riceboro, who's sort of a savant, a genius, a great actress, British person.
Marc:And Andre Royo, who you know from this show and from The Wire, from Empire.
Marc:That guy's a live wire.
Marc:Speaking of wires, he plays Bubz.
Marc:But he's my buddy and kind of my partner in this movie.
Marc:So I'm hanging around a lot with Bubz.
Marc:With Andre, great guy.
Marc:I couldn't have asked to be hanging out with a better person in the downtime.
Marc:The only problem is I got to maintain, I got to do a Texan accent, which I'm doing.
Marc:I'm just doing it.
Marc:I don't give a fuck.
Marc:I laid it in place.
Marc:I did the work.
Marc:I did the dialecting with the dialect coach.
Marc:I got a little primer.
Marc:I got a little page of things I got to think about when I do it.
Marc:And I do it, and I try not to do it up in my nose where it sounds like I'm doing an impression of somebody from Texas.
Marc:But it's going well, and I'm glad I took the gig.
Marc:It's scary, but it's nice to be around people.
Marc:I know that it's dangerous.
Marc:And maybe not the smartest thing I ever did in my life, but like I said, the protocols are in place.
Marc:Safety is being focused on immensely.
Marc:There's nobody on the set without a mask and mostly without a shield ever, except for actors when they're doing their scenes.
Marc:I get tested every other day, it seems.
Marc:And hopefully I won't get it.
Marc:And I feel like I'm doing okay work.
Marc:I didn't know what I had in me anymore.
Marc:We've been in this quarantine situation for a long time, but I didn't know if I could still work with people or get into the zone and do the acting.
Marc:But as I said the other day, I'm on set and I'm like, I know what this is.
Marc:I know how to do this.
Marc:I'm familiar with this profession.
Marc:I am a professional.
Marc:In this show business thing.
Marc:And the director seems very happy.
Marc:He seems to be getting what he wanted out of me.
Marc:He ordered a Marc Maron.
Marc:He's getting the Marc Maron.
Marc:Did I mention today on the show here, Brad Williams is on the show.
Marc:Brad is a comedian.
Marc:He's a little person.
Marc:He's a dwarf.
Marc:I was told it's okay to say dwarf by Brad Williams.
Marc:You may have seen his stand-up specials, Fun Size or Daddy's Issues.
Marc:And he also appears in the Netflix stand-up series, The Degenerates.
Marc:And he was the topic or the subject or the launchpad of one of the funnier moments I've ever had on radio.
Marc:Not me personally, but bore witness.
Marc:One of the funnier moments that I've witnessed on radio with Anthony Cumia before he went completely sour when he was a funnier clown.
Marc:But I talked to Brad about that.
Marc:Man, what a day.
Marc:A lot of pages, a lot of scenes.
Marc:It got to the point where the last thing we were shooting today, I had to drive up and get out of a truck.
Marc:Me and Andre had to drive up and get out of a truck.
Marc:And I had one line.
Marc:The line was, so did it go okay?
Marc:Everything go okay?
Marc:Man, but everything gets rolled into motion.
Marc:We had transpo, moved the truck.
Marc:We got in the truck.
Marc:All the gears were going.
Marc:Everyone's on set doing the thing.
Marc:We got a moving vehicle.
Marc:I fucking drive that thing up and I get out and I deliver my line to Andrea, who's playing Leslie, and I say, everything go okay?
Marc:And then I stopped and like, fuck, no accent.
Marc:And it was almost as if no one caught it.
Marc:No accent.
Marc:That was me.
Marc:It was just Mark.
Marc:Can't have that.
Marc:Back up the truck.
Marc:I forgot to put on my accent face.
Marc:But it's going well, but it's weird what I get freaked out about.
Marc:Like, you know, I, I did some, uh, yeah, I got a sign.
Marc:Uh, when I was on glow, I signed a nudity waiver.
Marc:Is that what you say that I had to do that?
Marc:Cause if those women were going to show anything, then I had, it had to be equal and I had to show whatever they asked me to show.
Marc:Fortunately, as some of you may know, it was my ass, uh,
Marc:And there was one it was not really a sex scene, but partial nudity.
Marc:But I showed my ass.
Marc:It's there.
Marc:I walked around set with a dick sock on.
Marc:And that was OK.
Marc:I was OK to deal with that.
Marc:But I'm doing this movie and there's one scene where I got to eat a TV dinner.
Marc:And I was like, oh, my God.
Marc:I don't know if I can fucking do that.
Marc:Is there any way around me eating a TV dinner?
Marc:Because we got to do a bunch of takes and I got to eat Salisbury steak from a TV dinner.
Marc:I was more freaked out about that than showing my ass on camera.
Marc:Even my cock, maybe.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:That's a little that would have been a little hard.
Marc:No, I mean, it probably wouldn't have.
Marc:Damn it.
Marc:I didn't mean to do that.
Marc:It didn't.
Marc:I'm not even going to play it out.
Marc:But I had to really kind of come to grips with eating a Salisbury steak.
Marc:From a fucking TV dinner.
Marc:Fortunately, they made one special for Andrea, who has meat issues.
Marc:So they made a gluten-free veggie one.
Marc:So I was able to take some of that as opposed to the real Salisbury steak.
Marc:But I did more eating on camera this time than I ever have.
Marc:And I try to avoid it at all costs.
Marc:Because if you eat on camera in a scene, then every time you do a take...
Marc:You got to remember where the fuck you ate.
Marc:Like there's not enough going on in the world.
Marc:I'm happy to be working.
Marc:I really am.
Marc:It's really exciting.
Marc:And it's so fucking nice.
Marc:It's amazing how long it's been to be around that many other people.
Marc:It doesn't feel that different.
Marc:It's just everyone's wearing masks.
Marc:So do you guys have the Citizen app?
Marc:I don't know what the hell I got it for.
Marc:I think it was a fire thing.
Marc:I think my friend Dan said it's good for fire updates.
Marc:But now I got on here and you just you know, if you think you live in a good neighborhood, get the citizens app.
Marc:You don't know what the fuck is going on in your neighborhood.
Marc:And I don't know whether it's like promoting entertainment.
Marc:Because I got to fight myself sometimes, man.
Marc:Just out of nowhere, you'll get a notification from the Citizen app.
Marc:And it's like a naked man running around Trader Joe parking lot with a knife, upset that it's not open yet.
Marc:It's like part of me is like, holy shit, that's crazy.
Marc:And the other part of me is sort of like, I wonder if I leave now, if he still be out there when I get down there.
Marc:Because I kind of like to see that.
Marc:And then sometimes there's just things come up and it's like, is that really, did someone call that in?
Marc:Man with indigestion at Glen Oaks and Brand on the corner bus stop.
Marc:I don't know if that's, is that really something I should, do I need to know that?
Marc:That doesn't seem like a big deal.
Marc:Fellow with funny head walking through the Bank of America parking lot.
Marc:Nope.
Marc:Don't need to know that.
Marc:five gunshots heard and then sometimes the story doesn't even go on man talking to his penis sitting in front of Walgreens now that I gotta get to what time did that start that sounds like an interesting one person show I started a conversation with somebody on set today and you know you just never know man you just never know
Marc:I was talking to some person who I knew from another show.
Marc:You know, we're just talking about the world for two seconds.
Marc:She's like, I'm a little worried about communism.
Marc:I'm like, what?
Marc:She said, yeah, I talked to some people that I know, a couple of people I know from Cuba said it's happening.
Marc:And I'm like, what are you talking about?
Marc:She's like, communism.
Marc:In America?
Marc:Yeah, it's going communist.
Marc:I'm like, what are you even talking about?
Marc:She's like, well, I don't know.
Marc:I'd like to hear your opinion.
Marc:I'm like, this doesn't sound like one of those opinion talks.
Marc:This sounds like cuckoo time.
Marc:And then I realized, like,
Marc:I think there's a few questions you can ask when somebody says something like that.
Marc:When somebody says something provocative that you're not sure where they're going with it, though I got a pretty good idea, there just should be like a quiz where you can just be like, hey, before I get into this discussion with you, can I just ask you a couple questions?
Marc:Do you believe in global warming?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Do you believe that vaccines work?
Marc:Do you believe there is a deep state?
Marc:Do you think there was election fraud?
Marc:Like, two out of four.
Marc:Two out of four of those, you can sort of go like, all right, you know what?
Marc:Thank you for answering those questions with the yes or no part of this.
Marc:And I don't think, I think I'm going to pass on the bigger discussion.
Marc:Because, I don't know, it's time I'm not going to get back.
Marc:And you're a dum-dum.
Marc:but as i said i don't know where that the person i was talking i don't know where that was going because i pulled out i pulled the ripcord before i even got into it because i can get pretty worked up and uh you know you ain't gonna change any minds
Marc:You know, especially the ones that are on lockdown.
Marc:I've known Brad Williams for a long time.
Marc:He's a funny man.
Marc:He's a little person, which is exciting.
Marc:This is the first time I've talked to a little person on the show.
Marc:So this is a first, a historic first.
Marc:And as I said earlier, you can see his specials, fun-sized daddy issues.
Marc:He's been on The Degenerates.
Marc:He's got...
Marc:You know, we're just going to do the thing that we do here.
Marc:Comedian talk.
Marc:This is me and Brad Williams.
Marc:It's so rare to have people in person.
Marc:I know it's weird, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I see people, but I don't do this much.
Marc:I don't do the podcast with humans that much.
Guest:No one's coming over here?
Guest:They all do the Zoom stuff with you?
Guest:They do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:Do you find yourself when you actually have a personal moment with either like...
Guest:a gardener or someone who works fast food you like hang on to the conversation a little too long because you're like ah yeah yeah humans interpersonal communication we're talking like people i miss this i miss you i've never met you before in my life i miss this you're so important to me right now
Marc:Yeah, no, I find that.
Marc:Thank you for bringing me these macaroons your wife made.
Marc:Now I've got to try one on mic because people love that more than anything.
Marc:They love when you eat on mic.
Marc:Is this like some weird ASMR?
Marc:They fucking hate it.
Marc:You eat on mic and it's like, it's the worst thing.
Marc:It's like, it's like nails on a chalkboard.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:God, they're great.
Guest:Oh, well, she's a, she's a great baker.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is that her thing?
Guest:I mean, it's one of her things.
Guest:It's not a profession.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:No, she's a behavioral therapist.
Guest:Oh man.
Guest:How's that helping you?
Guest:Uh, great.
Guest:Are you behaving yourself?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Well, like, I grew up, my dad's a lawyer, so I'm just used to not winning arguments.
Guest:And it's just a nice little, I went from being, living with my dad and never winning an argument, and then I live with my wife, and she has trained me to lose arguments because she's a behavioral therapist.
Guest:I accept defeat well.
Guest:Um...
Guest:And also we're comics, so we're used to bombing.
Guest:We're used to being told no, and we're used to walking into a club owner's office and being like, hey, I sold 200 tickets.
Guest:They're like, you sold five.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Bye, thanks.
Guest:So the rest was paper.
Guest:No problem.
Guest:Did you guys make your money, though?
Guest:Did you guys do all right?
Guest:As long as you guys are good.
Guest:You're going to have me back, right?
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Oh, the worst.
Marc:I don't miss that shit.
Marc:I just read that book.
Marc:Did you read that book by that kid?
Marc:Which one?
Marc:Sam Talent?
Marc:No, I haven't read it yet.
Guest:Do you know about it?
Guest:Yeah, I know all the comics are talking about it.
Marc:There's comics in it.
Marc:He kind of blends real life.
Marc:with the fiction.
Marc:So there's like these weird appearances by guys like Rick Kearns.
Marc:I mean, that's a deep cut, man.
Marc:Rick Kearns.
Marc:Rick Kearns.
Guest:Hey, Maren, what's going on?
Guest:Not a lot of stories about Rick Kearns going around.
Marc:Well, I think there are plenty of stories about Rick Kearns going around.
Guest:But nobody knows them.
Guest:That's what I loved about the Comedy Store doc is that it dove into some people that aren't... Yeah, we all know Letterman, Kennison.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But we all know those stories.
Guest:Sure, man.
Marc:But then they did some deep cut stuff.
Marc:The Freddie Prinze Jimmy Walker thing where they go over to John Travolta's with that crossbow.
Marc:I mean, fuck, dude.
Marc:That was the best.
Marc:They're like, can you imagine getting that call?
Marc:We're going over there.
Marc:I'm like, what?
Marc:But you go.
Marc:That was the funny thing about Walker.
Marc:He's like, he went...
Guest:Yeah, he went.
Guest:Because what do you do, say no?
Guest:Yeah, you got to go.
Guest:No, you got to go and at least witness a murder or maybe stop it.
Marc:I don't know, but Kearns, he told me, there's a great Rick Kearns story about how he sort of made a show for himself in one of the San Francisco comedy competitions.
Marc:He was out here.
Marc:He's a Denver guy.
Marc:He was around.
Marc:I've known him, but...
Marc:So he gets an appointment for a general at like, I think it's CBS or something.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But he comes down.
Marc:He's got no fucking car.
Marc:He's drunk.
Marc:He's got to take a bus.
Marc:So it was just this whole story about how he meets the brass.
Marc:He has a great meeting.
Marc:And then he has to go sit at the bus stop.
Marc:And the guy who he had the meeting with drives by him.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:At the bus stop.
Guest:And just see.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hey, buddy.
Guest:Is it weird that I get.
Guest:a strange sense of pleasure about people that have it.
Guest:They have it, and then they blow it for some weird reason, or they get in their own way.
Guest:I'm fascinated with stories like that.
Marc:Fascinated is a nice word.
Marc:When you do comedy long enough, you're like, no, that didn't work out.
Guest:Like, you know what?
Guest:This is actually... First of all, thank you so much for having me.
Guest:Secondly, this is my first time on the podcast.
Guest:Second time I've been mentioned, though.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:I was mentioned during the Gallagher interview.
Guest:You were?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At some point, it's right before- Did I do it or he did it?
Guest:He did it.
Guest:Right before he leaves, you're saying that he does something about like, well, he's making a certain kind of joke that's not good or he shouldn't make or something like that.
Guest:And he yells out-
Guest:I saw a midget comic last week tell a bunch of midget jokes.
Guest:He's talking about me because I was at Crackers in Indianapolis.
Guest:Oh, I'm sorry.
Guest:Yeah, me too.
Guest:That used to be a good place.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And then one of the staff comes back and goes, hey, Gallagher's here.
Guest:And I go, huh?
Guest:They go, no, Gallagher's here.
Guest:Like, oh, okay, does he want to do time?
Guest:Did he bring his shit?
Guest:Do I have to go on after the Sledge-O-Matic?
Guest:Wait, are we going to have a Sledge-O-Matic followed by dwarf comedy night?
Guest:That just seems pretty great.
Guest:Is he going to take the hammer to the dwarf?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Does he think he hits me and I explode into confetti?
Guest:What happens here?
Guest:And they go and they talk to him.
Guest:He goes, no, he's just here to see the show.
Marc:Weird.
Guest:And I'm a pretty new comic.
Guest:I've just been headlining a few years at that point.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I'm on stage and he's like second row.
Guest:Oh, you can see him.
Guest:I'm seeing Gallagher while on stage.
Marc:And I bet you he wasn't laughing, right?
Marc:Just looking at you?
Marc:No.
What?
Guest:he but and then i talked to him afterward he's like yeah my wife loves your the the the the date that he was with okay wife or something yeah she was the fan oh okay so she brought him and then and then i started thinking myself oh god like because imagine you're in that situation where your partner goes like hey we're gonna go see a comic right and you have to sit there in the audience and watch another comic kill and you know like the last thing you would do is sit close though especially if you're a known guy you're
Guest:Gallagher, for God's sake.
Marc:You don't want to do that to the guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know it's going to fuck him up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't want, and like, I can never do that because look at me.
Guest:I kind of stand out in a crowd.
Guest:You don't just scan.
Guest:In your way.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You don't just scan the audience and go, yeah, that's normal.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But yeah, he was, I don't know, I haven't really re-thunked that episode.
Marc:I don't think I have any regrets about it.
Marc:I was trying to make a point.
Marc:But yeah, it's the worst when there are other comics.
Marc:But Broad Ripple, man, I'm in this weird zone because of the quarantine where I'm not nostalgic, but I'm thinking like, how did I fucking get here?
Marc:What have I been through?
Marc:I'm going to go, I actually have all my date books going back to the 80s.
Marc:up there in the attic in here and I just want to go through and see if I can remember the rooms of all those one nighters and weird shit that we did or that I had to do man well I could you probably haven't been there for a while I'm still doing them so I so I could tell you like crackers was an okay room all I remember about crackers was the woman who ran its father drove you to radio
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And I don't know if he I think he's passed.
Marc:I think so.
Marc:But, you know, he's a weird.
Marc:He had this weird posture.
Marc:He had some sort of scoliosis or something.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he was just a weird little old man.
Marc:He'd come pick you up at six in the morning to do Bob and Tom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And isn't it just Tom now?
Guest:Just Tom and it's Tom.
Guest:It's Tom.
Guest:But they don't take Bob off the marquee.
Guest:Really?
Guest:They still say it's the Bob and Tom show.
Guest:So that's the deal Bob made.
Guest:So he gets still gets a few bucks on the back end.
Guest:Something like that.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Maybe they thought the listeners would change the channel if it was just the Tom show.
Marc:But it's just weird.
Marc:I have these moments where I have these memories where I would go out back and smoke with fucking Bob.
Marc:Because he's smoking those cigarettes all the fucking time.
Marc:So that goes back over 10 years since I smoked a cigarette.
Marc:But just going out in that cold air in fucking Indiana and fucking smoking cigarettes with Bob.
Marc:And then I think I remember doing that show before they moved to the fancy studio.
Guest:Oh, because I've only done it in the fancy studio.
Marc:Yeah, the one that they built for them out in the middle of a cornfield.
Guest:Yeah, that's about five minutes away from Tom's house.
Marc:Oh, no shit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Tom's compound with the nine kids, four ex-wives or whatever.
Marc:You know what?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You're still working.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Guest:Yeah, I'm still working.
Guest:I got to go back to these shows, Mark.
Guest:I don't mind that guy.
Guest:I've got the Netflix half hour, Mark.
Guest:Half hour.
Guest:I don't have the hour yet.
Guest:I can't burn all the bridges.
Marc:Can't fuck with Tom.
Marc:I don't have any problem with him.
Marc:He's a good radio guy, and I appreciate radio guys.
Marc:I briefly did radio.
Marc:Me too.
Marc:I did radio for a year and a half.
Marc:I fucking loved it.
Marc:Were you the funny guy?
Marc:I tried to be.
Marc:Can we say dwarf?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Dwarf is okay?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:What's the bad one?
Guest:Midget's the bad one.
Guest:That's the one where they protest you.
Guest:I tell you, man.
Guest:And I've been protested by midgets.
Guest:That was not fun.
Marc:It's a lot of, it's a weird anger, I would imagine, that comes from a bunch of little people.
Marc:Little people's good, right?
Marc:Yeah, that's the, yeah, little person or person of short stature is the ultra safe.
Marc:Short stature.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Man, I still tell that story when you and I were doing that live O&A.
Marc:Oh, that was so good.
Marc:Dude.
Marc:That was so good.
Marc:That beat he had when you told the story that you might be telling me now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That you were an Uncle Tom thumb.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:Come on.
Guest:That was the best fucking.
Guest:That's one of the best one-liners I've ever heard.
Guest:So quick.
Guest:Uncle Tom Thumb.
Guest:That was crazy.
Guest:So good.
Guest:It's also one of those things where as a dwarf comic, when you hear another dwarf joke that I haven't written yet, I'm like, damn it.
Guest:How did I miss that one?
Marc:Uncle Tom Thumb.
Marc:But what was the protest about?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, because now you talk about shithole comedy clubs.
Guest:I can talk about this one because I went out of business and I don't have to worry about- Which one?
Guest:Joey's Comedy Club in Livonia, Michigan.
Guest:Never did it.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Good on you, sir.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It gets passed around the local LPA, which stands for Little People of America.
Guest:it gets passed around that i'm performing there and that i say the word midget during my act which i do uh because personally i don't see anything wrong with like i've i've talked about it but like i don't mind the word i i don't want a word to have power over me i don't want like if you call me a midget now it's like oh god that's that word now i have to fight you you know right it's a weird thing like even with like the word jew for me like
Marc:I'll use it in kind of a negative way.
Marc:Like I'm Jew.
Marc:You know, here's a way to say it, but I can only take it from, even people I know really well, I'm kind of sensitive to how they say Jew.
Marc:So I imagine friends of yours can say, I imagine if Adam said midget, maybe you'd be all right.
Marc:Yeah, fine.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:I don't care.
Guest:It's not loaded.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And to me, it's all about context because I've literally been in Odessa, Texas.
Guest:I was chased by some guys in a pickup truck who were...
Guest:yelling out like kill the dwarf why and when yeah that's the more pc term but i think kill is the part that bothers me what did you do to make them upset uh i kicked them out of the show it was they were just being they were just being they had this uh two for one beer thing i don't know so you had them kicked out yeah and then they waited and then they and then they two dudes waited to kill the dwarf yeah they
Guest:Which sounds like one of those old games that we can't play anymore because it's not PC.
Guest:Like, we used to be able to play Smear the Queer.
Guest:Now we can't play Smear the Queer anymore because that's not PC.
Guest:We used to be able to play Kill the Dwarf.
Guest:But, like, when we walk out to go to our cars after the show and the guy yells, Kill the Dwarf!
Guest:I'm not stopping.
Guest:Like, thank you for using the proper nomenclature.
Guest:I'm not doing that.
Guest:So Livonia, Michigan, they find out that I'm performing.
Guest:They know that I say the word midget.
Guest:So they, a group of them, I'll tell the real story, not the joke story.
Guest:All right.
Guest:The group of them show up and they're outside of the comedy club and they have picket signs.
Guest:Dwarves.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Dwarves.
Guest:I mean, the little people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The joke is like, yeah, they weren't picket signs.
Guest:They're three by five cards.
Guest:But like, you know, they're out there and they're protesting the show.
Guest:They're saying, don't go see the show.
Marc:Which to people walking in must have been just the best.
Guest:They thought.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If you're walking in and you're seeing a dwarf comic and there's dwarves protesting, you're like, this is some meta shit.
Marc:How many were protesting?
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:It's just sad that there's no way dwarves doing anything isn't going to be a little funny.
Marc:And that's my point.
Yeah.
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I'm sad that I've said something or that they think I say something that makes them upset.
Guest:Sure, that I don't want to make anyone upset.
Guest:I want to make people laugh.
Guest:That's my goal.
Guest:But the fact that you're like 10 to 15 little people out there, it's funny.
Marc:Okay?
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I know it's a deep one because I think we don't see that many little people.
Marc:You just don't.
Marc:No.
Marc:And when you do, it's like a unicorn.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Even I freak out about it.
Guest:If I see another dwarf, first of all, now, especially if I see another dwarf in a restaurant or something, then I feel insane pressure because now everyone's looking at two dwarves in the restaurant.
Guest:They're like, is this a blind date?
Guest:And they're looking for each other.
Guest:Depending on the sex and the age, they're like, is this a father-son?
Guest:Are they lost?
Guest:Are they brothers?
Guest:How is this possible that there's two in one room?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:We had...
Guest:three dwarves at my high school um really yeah me and then a brother sister and uh and that freaked people out that freaked people out that there was three um the brother was older and then when the sister got there everyone went up to the brother like hey there's another dwarf you should go try to and he's like my sister that's my sister can't no what you asshole and
Marc:But the weird thing is, I understand racism.
Marc:I understand sexism.
Marc:I understand anti-Semitism.
Marc:I understand all the bad-isms.
Marc:But nobody hates a dwarf.
Marc:I can understand that...
Guest:That's going to be the name of my next special.
Guest:Nobody hates a dwarf.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:But, you know, it's more of a fascination.
Marc:I think the diminishing quality is that it's so cute.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Or being referred to as it would be a problem.
Guest:Look at it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:One of the things about what I've noticed and why it's sort of...
Guest:uh not okay to make fun of dwarves but no one really gets mad at you that much like it's one of the last groups that it's kind of safe to make jokes about is that we're not a threat like if you make like if there's a group of four people of a certain race in a crowd and you make the wrong joke yeah there is the fear of like oh they could they could hurt me
Guest:Four dwarves in the audience.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What are you going to do?
Guest:What are you going to do?
Guest:Try it.
Marc:Yeah, I can't.
Marc:I don't fight.
Marc:We're not.
Marc:But also, just the idea that people are touching you and picking you up and stuff.
Marc:Does that happen?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yes, Mark.
Guest:Okay, so this is a joke, but serious, okay?
Guest:So at the end of my shows, in the before time, I do the meet and greets.
Guest:I go outside.
Guest:I hawk my T-shirts and my DVDs to try to make a couple extra bucks.
Guest:And I have to say at the end of my show, okay, I'm going to be out there.
Guest:I have a rule.
Guest:You cannot pick me up.
Guest:And you're laughing.
Guest:And I get it.
Guest:But, like, whenever I do it, there's always a... Aw.
Guest:Like, audibly, you can hear this noise in the crowd.
Guest:Aw.
Guest:I thought we could pick him up.
Guest:God damn it.
Guest:Like, it's like, no!
Guest:I'm a human being.
Guest:I'm a 36-year-old man.
Guest:I'm a father.
Guest:You know, you don't just get to, like... Like, you don't just get to... And, yeah, like, I had a...
Guest:I had a horrible back injury because I did a show one time.
Guest:And so this woman comes up to me and they want to take a photo afterward.
Guest:And she goes, I want a really funny photo, a fun photo.
Guest:And I'm looking at the girl and she's like, she's a buck 15 soaking wet, really tiny girl.
Guest:So I go, okay.
Guest:And I kind of grab her and put her in a fireman's carry where she's just over my shoulders and I'm holding her up.
Guest:Great photo.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Her boyfriend, much larger, goes, oh, I want that photo.
Guest:Jumps on me.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Just jumps on my back.
Guest:I was out, Mark, for like a year and a half just doing physical therapy.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like I would go on the road and I would just do stretches in the hotel room and like.
Guest:Was it something that happened because of the way you're built?
Marc:I have no idea.
Marc:Backs are so fucked up.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So when did you know that you.
Marc:When I was a dwarf?
Guest:Pretty early.
Guest:I have to tell this COVID joke because it's a real story.
Guest:I was at a grocery store and a kid in a grocery store looked at me and just yelled out, look what he did to him!
Guest:A kid.
Marc:A kid.
Marc:He just put that together.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He decided.
Guest:He thought that I was walking around pre-COVID like six foot two loving life.
Marc:That's hilarious.
Guest:Someone coughed on me and then like that happened.
Guest:God bless the children.
Marc:Oh, they are so honest.
Marc:But was it one of those things where you weren't growing and you didn't know?
Marc:And there must have been a window there where you were like, did you have to be told by your folks?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So my parents, not dwarves, just throwing that out there.
Guest:We
Marc:How does that happen then?
Guest:I know.
Guest:You're asking me.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's genetic, isn't it?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's a recessive gene from what I know.
Guest:And so, yeah, my parents are not dwarves.
Guest:We don't all have to come from the same tribe.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so when I was born, my dad, very early, very early, he knew that I would be made fun of.
Guest:He knew the world is a very cruel place.
Guest:So his philosophy was, I'm going to make fun of my son first, but in a supportive way.
Guest:Like he would crack on me when I was like three, four years old.
Guest:And then he would say, okay, now hit me back with something.
Guest:He taught me how to bust balls.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So then by the time I got to school and kids made fun of me, I had comebacks written, ready.
Guest:So you were a force to be reckoned with.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You got the respect.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think my dad had a really good, positive way of looking at it.
Guest:He didn't try to ignore it and pretend it didn't exist.
Guest:I was always raised with, yes, you are a little person.
Guest:You are different.
Guest:Life is not going to be the same for you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But-
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can still lead a very good life.
Guest:My dad was the one who told me that when I meet someone, start with a dwarf joke, like try to slip in a dwarf joke really fast.
Guest:That way they're comfortable.
Guest:Like lighten the tension.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Break the tension.
Guest:Yeah, because then the person's just staring at me like, do I say anything?
Guest:Does he know?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I tell you, the little people I've met, and there's not a ton of them, all seem pretty well adjusted.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:But they are.
Marc:I mean, I guess there's an acceptance that you have to live with from very early on that most people don't have to kind of reckon with.
Guest:Yeah, well, and the thing is, is kind of like I hinted at it before, that I never was anything else.
Guest:I don't know what the average size life is.
Guest:There's no fix in it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I mean, now there might be.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, there's a new experimental treatment that you can give to children between the ages of three and ten.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That already have the dwarfism?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They have dwarfism.
Guest:It's an injection, and it doesn't cure, but I'm not sure the full effects of this, so I don't want to say it wrong, but some of the health problems associated with dwarfism, it lessens that.
Guest:It's still in phase three of testing, but it's interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What are health problems?
Guest:Back problems.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We have some neck problems, respiratory problems.
Guest:Really?
Guest:COVID's scary.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Hearing problems sometimes.
Guest:But yeah, there's more than just your small.
Guest:And that's just my type of dwarfism.
Guest:There's over 100 different types of dwarfism.
Marc:100 different types?
Marc:Yeah, well, it's a genetic mutation.
Marc:Is there condescension within the community of what type of dwarf you are?
Guest:Of course.
Guest:Of course there is.
Marc:Oh, no.
Guest:that that's why when they talk about how like we need to end people judging people by being by being different it's like yeah that'd be nice but like within like you know like uh there's sex of the same uh religion that fight with each other because they believe slightly different things sure yes some dwarves don't like other dwarves or they make fun of other dwarves because they're types of dwarves yeah because they're the only ones that we can make fun of you know
Marc:Now, this is a dumb thing, but is there some place that you all congregate?
Guest:Depends on what country.
Guest:There's rumors.
Guest:Every city I go to, someone always tells me.
Guest:I guess it's a sort of, is there a support situation?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:There is LPA, the same group that got together to protest me, is actually a really good group.
Guest:I don't besmirch them at all.
Guest:They're doing amazing things.
Guest:LPA, Little People of America.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They have a national convention every summer.
Guest:I used to go to them when I was a kid.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Over a thousand dwarves in one hotel.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:Yeah, which I always make the joke of like, that's got to be really weird for the person that's just staying there on the business trip.
Yeah.
Guest:They just walk in.
Guest:It's like, okay.
Guest:What happened?
Guest:Man, I drank too much.
Guest:Woke up in The Wizard of Oz.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:I think there's an old Geraldo joke that's something like that, probably, because he was fucking brilliant.
Guest:Greggy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, yeah, so there's that support system.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They do a lot of things like they get doctors together that have that specialize in dwarfism.
Guest:They do a lot of social stuff.
Guest:They do sporting events, which once again is so great that they do.
Guest:Very funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really funny.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And there's there can't be anything wrong with the laughter that comes from that.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:I've been to dwarf track meets, Mark.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They're hilarious.
Marc:But I think it's just the heartbreaking earnestness of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's what makes the laughter a little dubious.
Marc:What you're laughing at is these people trying.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's sort of a little cold, but it's human.
Marc:It's human.
Guest:I think it's sympathetic.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:No one, at least no person of sane nature is saying that these people are less than or they deserve less or anything like that.
Guest:It's just like, okay, but there's funny things to be had.
Guest:Like, yes, there are basketball games, but none of us know how to rebound because we've never had to rebound before.
Guest:We've never gotten a rebound.
Guest:So the ball misses and we just all stand there with our arms out like a basket just going like, all right, just wait.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the ball comes down, right?
Guest:We're not skying over anybody else and grabbing the ball at its highest point.
Guest:What's that other guy's name, the guy who hangs around the comedy store?
Guest:Oh, Nick Novicki.
Guest:Yeah, how's he doing?
Guest:He's great.
Guest:It's funny because I met Nick years ago.
Marc:You guys got the same dwarfism?
Guest:I think he's a little different.
Guest:Because I have achondroplasia.
Guest:That's the most common type.
Guest:If you've seen a dwarf on television, it's the same kind of type that Peter Dinklage has.
Marc:For sure, right.
Guest:Yeah, Peter Dinklage.
Guest:He's got achondroplasia.
Marc:But not the kind, the guy from the mini-me.
Guest:Yeah, Vern.
Guest:Yeah, Vern Troyer.
Guest:He's dead, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he's passed.
Guest:But yeah, he had a different type of dwarfism.
Guest:I'm not quite sure what it is.
Marc:So when you're going to high school and you're doing things, I mean, what are you moving towards?
Marc:What's your interest?
Marc:How does that work?
Guest:Were you a nerd or were you like- I was a drama nerd.
Guest:I was big into theater.
Guest:Were you?
Guest:And comedy sports, which is improv comedy.
Marc:In high school?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, loved it.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And wrestling.
Guest:I was really into wrestling.
Guest:Was on the wrestling team.
Guest:And I'll tell you one thing, Mark.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've gotten a few really good reactions on stage, a few good laughs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Nothing, nothing will ever compare to the look on a father's face when his son just got pinned by a dwarf.
Yeah.
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:Nothing beats that.
Guest:Just the disappointment.
Guest:Just the, oh God.
Marc:You've given that kid something he's got to live with.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For the rest of his life.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You got pinned by a dwarf.
Marc:How's that car ride on the way home?
Marc:Oh man.
Guest:Hey dad, you proud of me?
Guest:How's that life?
Guest:How's that knowing that?
Guest:That's something that dad probably like yells out like the kid's whole life.
Marc:I mean, you've got to because they can't maneuver on the same level as you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Low center of gravity.
Guest:Uh,
Guest:Yeah, there's a lot of dwarves that actually go into wrestling for that reason.
Guest:And I'm talking about amateur wrestling, not WWE, AEW type stuff.
Guest:But yeah, some dwarves do that too.
Guest:But yeah, so I did wrestling in high school, but mostly theater.
Guest:Loved it.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:I had a great teacher that, her name is Mary Krell Oishi, and the freshman year,
Guest:I tried to audition for the school play, and I auditioned for the kid because I thought, ah, dwarf kid.
Guest:And she pulled me aside and went, what the fuck are you doing?
Guest:Like, why are you going for the kid?
Guest:And I was like, well, because I'm small, so kid, that makes sense.
Guest:She goes, no, go for the lead.
Guest:She's like, I'm going to cast based on talent, not based on size and physical appearance.
Guest:And I didn't get the lead, but I didn't get the kid, so I was...
Guest:I was stoked about it.
Marc:No, and it's a nice boost to normalizing your fucking personhood.
Guest:Yeah, and sometimes you need that, like, it was great to have a person look at me and then say, no, no, no, I'm not gonna judge you like that.
Marc:Well, I think that's the whole that's the essence of why it's problematic.
Marc:The laughter at little people trying to do things and everything else is that, you know, you're grownups.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, you're you're you're people that, you know, have lives and work.
Marc:It's like people.
Marc:It's very it's literally an objectification thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's just not necessarily sexual.
Marc:It's just sort of, look at the toy person.
Guest:Oh, it can be sexual, Mark.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Oh, there's certain people that are banned from going to the LPA conventions because they have fetishes.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like little people?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Like tall people.
Guest:They come?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, they come to try to come.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They come to try to pick up on the little people, and it's like, ooh.
Guest:Yeah, that's true.
Guest:Which I, like...
Guest:Listen, in my single days, sure, I had some fun with women that had a curiosity, okay?
Guest:And to me, people would be like, no, they're objectifying you.
Guest:I'd be like, I had an orgasm.
Guest:How is it objectifying me?
Marc:I mean, I think that's different.
Marc:How do you know?
Marc:I mean, you know, fetish is fetish.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But it's like some people like Jews.
Marc:Some people like black dudes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Some people like people with one hand.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, it's not.
Guest:I mean, if you if you go on Pornhub, there's some people that like some really weird shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I try to stay out of there.
Guest:There's a few things I don't need to know.
Marc:So when you get out of high school, did you go to college?
Marc:Did you have a trajectory you were going for?
Marc:I went to USC.
Marc:Down here?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Where'd you grow up?
Guest:Orange County.
Marc:Oh, so it's not far.
Guest:No, no, not far at all.
Guest:And I was going.
Guest:There's a lot of lunatics up there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A lot.
Guest:A certain type.
Guest:A certain type.
Guest:Rich lunatics.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:I'm related to some of them.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And good friends with others.
Guest:I remember my mom would tell me stories that when they brought me home from the hospital, she had some friends that would go up to her and be like, don't worry, he'll probably grow out of it.
Guest:Yeah, he'll stretch out.
Yeah.
Guest:And she kept going, uh-uh, dwarfism.
Guest:I don't think you understand.
Guest:Do you have siblings?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I have a sister.
Guest:She's tall.
Guest:She's an accountant.
Guest:She's really good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she's got a husband and they got two kids.
Guest:We're the Beaver Cleaver family.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Mom, dad.
Guest:Mom and dad are still together.
Guest:Sister, brother.
Guest:I'm the weird thing.
Marc:But you're not really weird.
Marc:You're just different size and shape.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And yeah, so yeah, I grew up in Orange County, worked at Disneyland.
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:Ha ha.
Guest:No.
Guest:I was not one of the seven, Mark.
Guest:All right.
Guest:No.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I was not in the suit.
Marc:Is that a dwarf job?
Guest:To play the dwarves?
Marc:Not usually, because they're kind of big, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:They're larger, but there were some little people that played... I mean, if I'm allowed to say this, it breaks the magic.
Guest:But there were some little people that played Mickey and Minnie.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:They're usually smaller.
Guest:Are there little people jobs?
Marc:Hmm.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I haven't really done them.
Marc:You're a comic.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I imagine.
Marc:I was wondering if there are jobs that require.
Guest:I know that in World War II, to save space and resources, dwarves were recruited in the Air Force to be gunners.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:There would be a bubble below the plane.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then the dwarf was put in the bubble.
Guest:The worst place.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:because we fit and it saved money on materials or whatever okay yeah i i know that that would be a dwarf job yeah uh a great job so all right so you were working at disneyland in what capacity uh i was a bodyguard for the characters really yeah so i i walk around with the characters and you know i form lines and stuff and every now and then a five-year-old steps out of line i gotta be like what's up bitch
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Throw a little forearm shiver.
Marc:What are you thinking?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:Doing that and then go off to USC.
Guest:I was trying to be a sports broadcaster.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I wanted to do that.
Guest:Are you a sports freak?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Love it.
Marc:What's one of the ones?
Marc:Any of them?
Marc:Are you one of those people that just watches any sport and you're like in?
Guest:Not to say I was watching Korean soccer when all of our sports were shut down, but I may have been watching Korean soccer when all of our sports were shut down.
Guest:You just like it.
Guest:I just like sports.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's just the- You could have been in sports.
Guest:You still can.
Guest:I mean, you never know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I could certainly do it.
Guest:I'm friends with some people that do it, so they might be able to hook me up.
Guest:But yeah, going to USC to do that.
Guest:And then at 19, stumbled into a comedy club and life changed.
Guest:Yeah, what happened?
Guest:I took my dad to the Brea Improv, and the comedian on stage was making dwarf jokes without knowing that I was there.
Guest:Who's that?
Guest:Mencia.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Marc:I forget.
Marc:You're kind of like a...
Marc:You and Bobby Lee are Mencia prodigies.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:We came from that coaching tree.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So yeah, he was on stage and half the audience is laughing and the audience sitting by me is like not laughing at all.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And Mencia looks over and goes, why aren't you guys laughing?
Guest:He goes, what?
Guest:Is one of them here?
Guest:Right.
Guest:One of them.
Guest:And I just raised my hand in the air like, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he called me up on stage.
Guest:He's like, I want to talk to you.
Guest:So he calls me up on stage.
Marc:You caught him.
Marc:That's such a fucking, that is so funny because that's the only thing that an asshole can do diplomatically to make him not look like a dick.
Marc:It's like he got caught red-handed.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:being a butt, you know, being a dick, and now he's got to erase it by being magnanimous.
Marc:To be fair, I really enjoyed the jokes.
Marc:No, no, yeah, right, but I'm saying that, like, you know, in that moment, you're like, oh, fuck, and you gotta be like, so what's going on, man?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So he brought me up on stage, and he started asking me questions, and I answered the questions earnestly.
Guest:I answered them honestly, and my answers got laughs.
Guest:Like he said, like, where do you work?
Guest:And I go, I work at Disneyland, and the audience laughed.
Guest:And I went, you know, I turned to them and had a retort of some kind.
Guest:And just that was the shot that were out where I was like, oh, man, this feels really good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, because...
Guest:It's a whole different type of thing when you're the person that everyone likes to laugh at.
Guest:And now you're making the jokes and making them laugh.
Guest:So you're controlling the message.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I think Harry Shearer said it to me that you control the reason why people are laughing at you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's.
Guest:Pretty great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I told Mencia that night, I go, I'm going to be a comedian.
Guest:This is awesome.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he goes, okay.
Guest:Good luck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I started doing it.
Guest:What, open mics?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Where at?
Guest:First open mic night was at the Laugh Factory.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And a few open mics in two open mic stories.
Guest:I remember the first time I got there.
Guest:How long ago was this?
Guest:This was 17 years ago.
Guest:You've been doing it that long.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:I look fantastic.
Guest:You're an old timer, man.
Guest:It's weird when you cross that point and you pause and go, oh, I'm not the kid anymore.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now I'm the guy that's- The veteran.
Guest:Yeah, I'm the guy that's been doing it.
Guest:I remember going to the Laugh Factory and it's my first time and some guys there going like,
Guest:Hey, how many times have you been doing it?
Guest:And then he goes to me, and I go, it's my first time.
Guest:He goes, well, don't worry.
Guest:I've been doing this open mic for 12 years.
Guest:Do what I do.
Guest:You'll be fine.
Guest:I'll go, I don't want to do what you do.
Guest:I don't want to be here in 12 years.
Guest:I'll do the opposite of what you do.
Guest:Is that dude still there?
Guest:Probably.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I remember my third or fourth open mic at the Laugh Factory, Jamie called me up to his office.
Guest:Jamie, who owns the Laugh Factory?
Guest:Jamie Masada, yeah.
Guest:Jamie Masada, and he goes, buddy, here's what we do, buddy.
Guest:We have little people comedy night, buddy.
Guest:All little people comic.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:All little people in audience, buddy.
Guest:Really?
Yeah.
Marc:Now, how many are there of you guys?
Guest:I only know that.
Guest:Not enough to fill an audience.
Marc:And also, but I know that woman.
Marc:Who's that woman?
Marc:She has a different type of dwarfism.
Marc:Oh, Tannually Davis?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's awesome.
Guest:I love her.
Guest:Every time I think I'm the first dwarf to do something in comedy, Tannually did it first.
Guest:I thought I was the first guy, the first dwarf to have his name on the comedy store.
Guest:Nope.
Guest:Tenny Lee Davis.
Guest:Right there.
Guest:It's actually on there twice.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:I don't know if that's like... I don't know why, but she's on there twice.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:So she's awesome.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And yeah, so I started doing open mics.
Guest:Fast forward to about a year and a half in, I go back to see another Mencia show.
Guest:He sees me before the show and goes, oh, you're that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And did you ever start doing stand-up?
Guest:I go, yeah, I've been doing it for about a year and a half.
Guest:And he goes...
Guest:Why don't you open my show tonight?
Guest:And I'm like, oh, shit.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I've just been doing coffee shops.
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:Like a guest spot?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Guest spot.
Guest:Ten minutes?
Guest:Three.
Guest:Three to five.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I go on stage.
Guest:I do my guest spot.
Guest:I come off stage.
Guest:Mencia goes on stage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And says, he wasn't even supposed to go on it at that point.
Guest:And he just ran up on stage and goes, hey.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:did you guys like brad and the audience really cheered yeah and uh he goes cool you've made a very important decision for me um i've been looking for like a new opener my current opener is ready to start headlining and going off and doing who was that uh uh steve trevino oh yeah so it's like he's ready he's good he looks at me and just goes brad you want to be my new opener like from the stage and i'm like uh
Guest:Yes, and the next weekend, he's doing the Fox Theater in Bakersfield, and it's 1,400 people, and I've gone from coffee shops to doing that.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You toured with Carlos?
Guest:Yeah, for like four years.
Marc:Man, so you kind of skipped a big step.
Marc:Huge.
Guest:No, I'm fully aware that that does not happen in comedy.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:I'm fully aware of that.
Marc:In retrospect, was it beneficial or do you think you would have liked to have come up through the ranks in the clubs and built a following that way?
Guest:I see the pros and cons in both.
Guest:It was great to have real audiences and being able to... Because a lot of times when you start off, it's just other comics that are in the audience.
Guest:So it's tough to really gauge...
Guest:Uh, if your joke is really good or not, cause are they laughing or are they laughing because you're bombing or they, you know, or do they think if they laugh, you're going to get the spot and they're not.
Guest:Um, but so in that way it was very beneficial, but I immediately went on the road, got good.
Guest:So I didn't really develop those friendships and that camaraderie around the, around the LA scene.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then when his shit hit the fan, you got lumped in some of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Some of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Was he active in mentoring you?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like how?
Guest:Like I would do a set and then we would talk about the set and why it was good, why it was bad, where I could have done wrong.
Marc:And it was almost impossible for him to steal your midget.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It'd be really hard.
Guest:It'd be really difficult to go on stage.
Guest:You're like the only opener he wasn't really able.
Guest:Yeah, it'd be really hard to go on after the dwarf and be like, it's tough being a midget.
Guest:It'd be really kind of a... It's the big midget tour.
Guest:One thing that that taught me, that whole experience taught me,
Guest:With him or him stealing?
Guest:Let's just say opening for him and being associated with him is that shades of gray.
Guest:I think a lot of people look at certain people or events and things and they want one clear answer.
Guest:This person is good.
Guest:This person is bad.
Guest:Yeah, that's the problem.
Guest:And their shades of gray.
Marc:Whack and white thinking.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because that guy took me on the road.
Guest:He would pay for my travel.
Guest:He'd pay for my food.
Guest:When we went shopping, he'd say, throw whatever you want on my pile.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I gotcha.
Guest:That guy was insanely generous to me.
Guest:Straight up with you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, I mean, also industrious, was working all kinds of angles, had a lot of ideas.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:Put me on his TV show.
Marc:Right.
Marc:What were some of the things you learned from him?
Marc:Because I can see him in Bobby.
Marc:But I mean, because Bobby does his delivery.
Marc:You know, that kind of weird momentum.
Marc:And it works.
Marc:It's not stealing.
Marc:It's just I can see where Bobby learned these performative tricks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:One thing that I specifically remember learning from him is how to play a really large room.
Guest:Oh, the slowdown?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And how you can...
Guest:How you have to mime everything bigger if you're playing like a large theater.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or like a sold out room.
Guest:Or if you're pretending to be Mexican.
Guest:You have to make it.
Guest:I did learn that.
Guest:I know a lot about Mexican food.
Guest:I can do that really well.
Guest:But yeah.
Guest:So yeah, it's shades of gray.
Guest:I think a lot of people, like I said, want a person to be all good, all bad, all whatever.
Guest:And I would say think about the people in your lives.
Guest:You can...
Guest:Yeah, I get that.
Marc:You know, it's really hard as somebody in the community.
Marc:And I didn't know, like I had to do two interviews with him because I didn't know exactly what, you know, what had gone down.
Marc:But, but like just like to be so shunned by your community.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, for that something that specific.
Marc:I mean, there's been plenty of fucking joke stealing freaks in this world, you know, and there's been all kinds of weirdos that get absorbed by comedy because we're weirdos.
Marc:But yeah, but man, to be spit out like that with that much aggression and then have to try to figure out how to rebuild for yourself.
Guest:yeah yeah i mean i you know i understand he fucked up but i also felt bad yeah and it's a weird thing because now like i'm friends with like i'm friends with joe like right like i'm with rogan yeah yeah i'm friends with rogan i'm friends with that crew i'm still friends with mencia
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's like it's a weird place to be in where it's like I understand both sides and I've seen and I've seen both sides.
Guest:So it's it's very strange to I think like looking back on it like more of it.
Marc:I think a lot more of it was about those two guys than about anything else.
Marc:That would make a lot of sense.
Guest:That would make a lot of sense.
Marc:I get it, but there's fucking been joke thieves and freaks.
Marc:I get all of that, but it just seems like so much of it was fueled by this fucking cockfight and territorialism.
Guest:I'm laughing because when you say there's so many joke thieves, I'm remembering a story where a dwarf comic came up to me before one of my shows and said, like, hey, it was at Pepper Bellies.
Guest:You're going to be doing the midget bit because I kind of do the...
Guest:pepper bellies in fairfield california guy goes up and does pretty much a lot of my first album and then comes off stage and i'm like and i'm just kind of staring at him and there's dwarf jokes and then there's like no no that was the dwarf joke that i wrote like that right right it's not just the perspective i i
Guest:i've had uh little people comics open for me before and we're fine right like we could talk there's a great comic uh dwarf comic in houston texas named clinton this is his real last name i promise you clinton shorter perfect god's funny yeah uh but yeah so like he's open for me twice and we don't have to worry about it but yeah there was one comic that opened for me that did my act and what'd you do i just kind of looked at him and said oh you said you were a big fan he goes yeah
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's pretty obvious.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he didn't get it.
Guest:He didn't understand that he literally just did my act.
Guest:Did he know he did it?
Marc:I don't think he did.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:Well, I mean, it's got to be, like, you know, on some level, sadly, in this particular situation, it's probably got to be pretty empowering for that guy.
Marc:Like, in the sense that, like, you know, I don't know if he's... No, in a weird way.
Marc:Like, I don't know he's going to make a big success with your act, but, I mean, to be able to do... To have the feelings...
Marc:that you had around your issues to actually have control over why people laugh at you as a little person must have been pretty addicting.
Guest:No, and I get it, because I had the same run.
Guest:But then for every story like that- What did you do to him, though?
Guest:Oh, I just told him, like, dude, that's my set, so change it up.
Guest:I understand we're going to have similar perspectives, but find some different punchlines, and I can't have you opening for me if you're doing the first album.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:yeah but then there's but then there's another story uh this last Montreal comedy festival that I went to yeah uh there's a there's a dwarf comic up there who came up to me and told me that he had started doing stand-up when he heard my albums and then this is the first time he had gotten into the Montreal comedy festival so he was walking up to thank me and I was like
Guest:oh wow that's cool yeah man and that's a trip that like that it could be an inspiration yeah it's a weird thing because we're just doing this to have fun and uh and make people laugh maybe make people think and uh that but then when you when you have side effects like that it it really kind of takes you back for a second yeah it's great you don't realize you have that impact because we're selfish animals and yeah
Marc:When it turns out we did something nice just by coincidence.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's like when people ask us to do charity shows, and we do, and people go, oh, man, thank you so much for doing this for the charity.
Guest:And you're like, I still got up here and told my jokes, and I got my rush from it.
Guest:Like, this isn't.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:I wanted stage time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What was the charity?
Marc:How many times did you see comics go up for these shows, these benefits at the comedy store?
Marc:What's this for again?
Guest:I'm glad to be doing a good thing, but I got to wash out my 10 minutes.
Guest:Yeah, that and I have to know if I have a joke about the thing that we're raising money for.
Guest:So you got how many kids?
Guest:One.
Guest:A brand new spanking baby.
Guest:Really?
Guest:10 month old.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It had a baby during quarantine.
Guest:Well, not.
Guest:We had her before.
Guest:Her and I actually have the same birthday, January 13th.
Guest:You and the baby?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:She was born on my birthday.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:How great is that?
Marc:And now when you're and your wife physically is normal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's taller.
Guest:She's five foot seven.
Marc:And now, genetically, are there concerns?
Marc:Were there concerns?
Marc:Or is that not a possibility, really?
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:It's a possibility.
Guest:Really?
Guest:There's a 50-50 chance.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Once it's no longer a recessive gene?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Well, once...
Guest:I'm sure people will tweet at me the exact odds if they're like geneticists and Grendel squares and something like that.
Guest:But yeah, we were told 50-50 chance.
Guest:And yes, she is a little person.
Guest:She is?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:She is.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:No kidding.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My wife is Chinese.
Guest:I'm a dwarf.
Guest:We have an Asian dwarf baby.
Guest:And if you want to know what that is, it's the cutest fucking thing in the world.
Yeah.
Guest:It's awesome.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:When we found out, because they can actually do tests and find out before she's born.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They do ultrasounds and they can measure the limbs and go like, oh yeah, you're in the whatever percentile and then the head's very large.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So they go like, yep, head's big, small arms, small legs.
Guest:She's a little person.
Guest:And I actually had a really hard time with that at first.
Guest:why because i knew it came from me uh-huh where if she doesn't like being a dwarf if she has problems being a dwarf i can't be like well i don't know how it happened yeah maybe you got it from your mom i don't know what she was doing before me like i i i can't say that yeah so but then uh a friend of mine
Guest:um named uh jensen carp told me like no no this is the absolute best situation who better to raise this child right than you yeah because you've been through it you know the things so yeah this kid has the best dad in the world for for what the for the life that she's going to live well that's a curious thing is that like do you see it as a handicap um
Marc:I mean, how is it classified?
Marc:Is it different for everybody?
Guest:I mean, it is a handicap.
Guest:It's classified.
Guest:It is.
Guest:But it's weird because I've had a pretty good run in terms of my health.
Guest:I haven't had a lot of complications or I had one surgery when I was in high school, but that was it.
Guest:uh-huh uh just on my ankle and um but i've had a great run i've had friends that have had uh uh multiple surgeries um i have one friend just because of the way the body is yeah it's the way the body structure i i have one friend uh him and his wife are both dwarves and here's the thing if both parents pass on the dwarf gene
Guest:Then the kid is something called a double dwarf dominant, which sounds awesome, but is not.
Guest:The kid will usually not live.
Guest:And they usually have to take bad stuff.
Guest:And yeah, a friend of mine, that's happened to him twice.
Guest:Him and his wife, and it's awful.
Guest:It's awful.
Guest:So the fact...
Guest:Like, so yes, it is a disability and there's some dwarves that have different types of dwarfism than me that have a much harder go of it.
Guest:And my heart goes out to them and to see what they do and how they deal with it.
Guest:Like, it's weird that I could look at my situation and be like, wow.
Guest:Yeah, I've had some things not go the way I exactly wanted them to, but at the same time, I'm pretty lucky.
Guest:But yeah, my daughter has achondroplasia, same type of dwarfism as me.
Guest:And so far, so good.
Guest:She's been great.
Guest:We've seen geneticists.
Guest:We've seen orthopedists.
Guest:We've seen everyone kind of looking at her.
Guest:And so far, so good.
Guest:Fingers crossed.
Guest:But yeah, it's great.
Guest:Beginning of the journey.
Guest:She talked.
Guest:She said her first word.
Guest:She did?
Guest:How old was she?
Guest:10 months.
Guest:10 months.
Marc:Yeah, is that normal?
Marc:I have no idea.
Guest:What was the word?
Guest:Dada.
Guest:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:Said it while staring at me.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:And then she's trying to say mom, but she's having trouble with the M, so she calls my wife Bob.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Bob.
Guest:Bob.
Guest:She's trying to say, but her M sound like B, so we go into her room in the morning, and she's like, Dada, Bob.
Guest:It's just kind of like, all right.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, so I'm raising our daughter with my partner, Bob.
Guest:That's funny because she's trying to say mom.
Guest:She's close.
Guest:Yeah, she's getting there.
Guest:But yeah, it's a trip, man.
Guest:She was born before everything shut down, but then everything shut down.
Guest:And it's tough because we don't have people coming over.
Guest:We don't have grandparents.
Guest:Both your folks still alive?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they've seen her, and they've held her outside wearing masks and stuff like that.
Guest:Oh, that's good.
Guest:Yeah, mom can't come over and do the things that she... Help out, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it's been rough.
Guest:But, I mean, I know what people say when they say it's the greatest thing in the world.
Guest:It absolutely is.
Guest:It's also the hardest thing.
Marc:That's what it seems to me, yeah.
Marc:And what...
Marc:What have you been doing?
Marc:Are you and Adam still going at it or what?
Guest:Oh, doing the podcast.
Guest:And you're talking about Adam Ray.
Guest:We're not doing the podcast anymore.
Guest:He is.
Guest:We didn't have a Van Halen moment.
Guest:We didn't split up.
Guest:I'm not hating him.
Guest:It was just I knew that with the kid coming that –
Guest:I would need more time to be a dad, and the kid's schedule doesn't, like, the kid doesn't care that you've got to interview Susan Sarandon.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:The kid needs a thing.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Needs a thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, yeah, I stepped away from the podcast.
Guest:He still does it, and it's cool.
Guest:We're fine.
Guest:I tell this story to people, and people are like, oh, so you and Adam, like, hate each other now?
Guest:It's like, no, we're friends.
Guest:That's why we started the podcast.
Guest:We're friends.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:So, yeah, all good.
Marc:And what do you got going on?
Marc:Did you did a special drop or something?
Guest:I've done... Oh, I did a virtual show, like a big thing where everyone bought tickets and like... Did that work out?
Guest:Yeah, it was more fun than I thought it was going to be.
Guest:No kidding.
Marc:So you did it from your house?
Guest:Yeah, from my house, got a couple lights, got a camera there and just stood.
Guest:And they let, it's a company called Rush Ticks.
Guest:They got some great shows coming up.
Guest:Go.
Guest:And they let like 20 people in as VIPs that you could actually hear them laughing.
Guest:So you have something to go off of.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But then we had, yeah, we had over 600 people watching the show.
Guest:Who was on the show?
Guest:Me.
Guest:Just you?
Guest:Just me, yeah.
Guest:So you made a few bucks then?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I did okay.
Guest:It was nice.
Guest:Wow, that's wild.
Guest:It was nice.
Guest:I mean, hey, man, people are getting creative in these times, you know?
Marc:Yeah, I'm wary to do... I'm glad I do the podcast.
Marc:I don't really want to do outdoor shows.
Marc:I just don't feel like it.
Marc:I totally understand.
Marc:I mean... And the virtual shows, I don't know, you know?
Marc:It's just the weirdest thing to me is doing, like, you know, and I'm not bragging, but I do the Tonight Show from my backyard, which is like, you know...
Marc:Who the fuck ever thought that would happen?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I talked about Obama in my garage in 2016.
Marc:Now I'm talking to Fallon in my backyard and it's his show.
Marc:Look, I was ahead of the curve on the fucking lo-fi business.
Guest:A lot of stuff has been happening in this house.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's, you know, people are adjusting.
Guest:I did some drive-in shows.
Guest:How were they?
Guest:It's interesting.
Guest:How do you pace yourself?
Marc:Uh, what you do is the... Are they sitting on their cars or in their cars?
Guest:Both.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The front row, I did one at the Irvine Improv, and then they did it at the top of their parking structure.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And they have the front row be, uh, pickup trucks.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And the trucks turn around and people are, like, tailgating.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:So you can actually see them and hear them laughing.
Guest:Uh, so you can kind of time it out.
Guest:It's not perfect.
Guest:It's not a...
Guest:You know, it's not a sold out show on a Saturday night, but it's something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And for people like myself that don't, you know, have another source of income.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Besides this.
Guest:Is your wife working?
Guest:No, because she had to, you know, she stopped to take care of the kid.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then I was going to work, but then everything shut down.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I had to pivot and do virtual shows and drive-in shows.
Guest:Hell, I'm on Cameo.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Does that make you any money?
Guest:Yeah, it did pretty well.
Guest:People want dwarves to give them good news, you know, or wish them happy birthday.
Guest:Is there a category, a dwarf category?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Or are you just a popular dwarf?
Guest:Yeah, it's like me and Danny Woodburn.
Guest:I think we're the only dwarves on there.
Guest:I'm probably wrong.
Guest:There's probably a lot more little people on there.
Guest:But yeah, you just kind of adjust.
Guest:And I don't know.
Guest:I've said this, but I'm sure other people have made this comparison.
Guest:But the virtual shows and drive-in shows, it's like the methadone.
Guest:It's not...
Marc:no i get it it's not the heroin but yeah i just like for some reason i'm just happy that like i'm not in a position where i have to do them but you know i imagine if you have to you just adjust yeah you just figure it out just none of it sounds fun to me i took a part into something and it doesn't sound fun to me you know well you want it because part of this is you kind of want it to be fun yeah to be fair mark you you weren't the guy that was having a ton of fun before this
Marc:I'm not known as the fun guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So now it's just like worse.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:My fun was no fun.
Marc:Now it's just no fun fun.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I mean, you, you know, you do what you can and I've been out there and did a couple of shows in places where they were at like one third capacity.
Guest:So they were like in a comedy club.
Guest:So they're spread out.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I did a hilarities in Cleveland and the comedy works in Denver and
Marc:That's such a tiny room.
Guest:That must have been odd.
Guest:So it's not 400 people.
Guest:It's 120 people.
Guest:Spread out through the room?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Wild.
Marc:And it was okay?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's better than the virtual show because it's- Well, no.
Marc:I mean, I've done the shows for nine people indoors in my life.
Marc:I mean, I know there's some nights in the original room where I get it.
Guest:Right, and that's what, it's like I would do press for the shows or I would have comics call me up and be like, oh man, isn't it weird having the club just a third full?
Guest:I'm like, I only started selling tickets like a year ago.
Guest:This is not.
Guest:It's like an 1130 spot at the original room.
Marc:Yeah, it's fine.
Marc:We're used to it.
Marc:We're comics.
Marc:I could get that.
Marc:I could get around that.
Marc:And they're wearing masks?
Marc:Sometimes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's, like, I... It's scary, right?
Marc:Yeah, it's scary.
Guest:Callan got the shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And what's his name?
Guest:Shob.
Guest:Yeah, do you know those guys?
Guest:I know Shob.
Guest:Did he get over it?
Guest:Yeah, I mean... They're fine?
Guest:I don't know anyone who's passed from it, but I know some... I've got, like, 12 friends that have gotten it.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they all made it through?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, and then I know someone who's...
Guest:Parent passed away from it.
Marc:Oh, yeah, me too.
Marc:Lori?
Guest:Yeah, Lori.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Lori Kilmartin's Twitter.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Going through that.
Marc:Crazy.
Guest:It's impossible to, like, it's such an in-the-moment thing that it's hard to describe to people, but go back and read some of those tweets, and it's just the most funny and heartbreaking
Guest:punch, gut-wrench stuff.
Marc:She's so equipped for it because she did that whole book about her father passing, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, she's like the death joke person, but for it to be going on in real time was really hard to watch.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was funny, but it was brutal.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She's the best.
Marc:She is.
Guest:She's so fucking funny.
Guest:And so it's tough to do shows.
Guest:Everyone just kind of, you know, you make your own piece with it and you say, will I do this?
Guest:I've canceled some shows that I thought I was supposed to be, as we're recording this, I was supposed to be in Arlington, Texas this weekend.
Guest:And then just everything started spiking.
Guest:I'm like, I can't.
Guest:And I had to cancel week of, which I hate.
Guest:I don't want to cancel week of.
Guest:It's dangerous.
Yeah.
Guest:I don't want to.
Marc:The guy, was he understanding?
Marc:Oh, everyone's been cool.
Marc:Everyone's been cool.
Marc:They're like, all right.
Marc:It's almost like, you know, you caught him.
Guest:You know?
Guest:They know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have to be careful because my dad is a cancer survivor.
Guest:He's immune compromised, so I don't want to get close to him.
Guest:My dad told me one time, he's like, oh, no, I'm going out to the store and he's going to do something.
Guest:And I went, dad, stay the fuck home.
Guest:I'll bring you stuff.
Guest:He's like, no, I'm just going to go to the store.
Guest:And I go, dad, I don't want you to die because of a trend.
Marc:yeah and you don't want to go out though that's the weird thing it's not they're not being stupid they're just like i'm going nuts yeah and i get that fucking store i get that we're all we're all going nuts i'm like that too i got i do fly almost hospital ppe to go out i got n95 masks and i've got a plastic visor just to go to ralph's yeah you the whole thing but and then and then that's when you have the too long conversation with the yeah yeah yeah with the cashier yeah
Guest:Yeah, we're all just trying to figure it out.
Guest:It's an insane time to be a comedian.
Guest:It's an insane time to be alive.
Marc:It's alive.
Marc:Certainly, and it's compounded by being an American.
Marc:We're going to get through the issue.
Marc:But, I mean, there has been some good news on the treatment and vaccine front.
Marc:It seems like they're going to get a handle on it if we can just make it through this goddamn thing.
Guest:winter yeah without fucking morons ruining everything i'm trying and that's one of the other reasons why like i canceled everything for the rest of the year when they started saying you know we got a vaccine and it's like okay well i don't made it this far yeah i don't want to fumble on the one yard line
Guest:I want to get in.
Guest:So let's go.
Guest:Let's get the damn vaccine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm not going to like my dad beat cancer.
Guest:I don't want to be the one that knocks him out.
Guest:Well, I'm glad you're taking care of yourself.
Guest:Congratulations on your baby.
Guest:Thanks, man.
Guest:Well, you know, my wife did all the work.
Guest:I stood there.
Guest:I coached.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:You were there?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:You got to do it, I guess, huh?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:You're in that room, and I'm up by my wife's head just kind of coaching her through it, telling her she's doing great and all that, and then all of a sudden you hear another voice in the room.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:It's nuts.
Guest:It's nuts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I know it's been said a million times, but then they just give you the baby and say, all right, go home.
What?
Marc:right just take it and do what like oh we only we only get you to the door you gotta you gotta figure everything else out right but now in terms of is there is there some path to doing what you're going to have to do in in outside of are you just going to use your own wisdom to bring up a little person or is there is there an approach that you know is uh
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it's kind of like parenting in general.
Guest:Y'all just kind of do what you think is right.
Marc:I mean, I get that.
Guest:I, I want to kind of raise her the same way my dad raised me in that you are, you are aware that you are different.
Guest:So when someone stares at you or says something, you're not like, what, why?
Guest:Like, it's like, no, no.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:This is why they're doing this.
Guest:But then to have the mature response to have a response and, uh,
Guest:So, yeah, it's going to be rough.
Guest:There's going to be times where she's going to want to do things that – but at the same time, I played a lot of sports as a kid.
Guest:My mom did not want me to play sports.
Guest:My dad was like, get him out there.
Guest:And so I at least have that knowledge of, okay, we can do stuff.
Guest:So if she wants to play soccer or baseball or whatever –
Guest:great yeah going out there do the thing so it's that and um my my my wife in addition to being a behavioral therapist is also a martial artist and she wants to teach her how to be a martial artist too great so i thought yeah do that
Guest:Fantastic.
Guest:You got a plan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But we're all just, the plan changes daily, it seems, with what's going on.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:I'm just like, I don't know how much is going to, I don't know what normal is going to look like, but in terms on the disease front, there is reasons to be a little bit hopeful.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's it's weird.
Guest:It's it's weird how much hope does work.
Marc:I mean, what are you going to do?
Marc:I mean, it's like it's unnatural.
Marc:It's probably stupid.
Marc:But what's the alternative?
Marc:We're fucked, man.
Marc:I mean, that is one.
Marc:Yeah, but that's what, I mean, I do that too.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's exhausting.
Marc:It is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, the best way to go is either have hope, which is maybe silly, or just go like, hey, I got no control over what happens and I'm okay right now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So stay in that space.
Guest:yeah right yeah no totally and uh it it's just amazing when like a new good news comes out about a vaccine or something where i go okay yeah yeah we're almost there come on we can do it come on come on humans and and you just want to get you you you just want to get to that point i want to go back to watching sports with packed stadiums you want to
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You want to hug your friends and family.
Marc:You want to have parties.
Marc:I think that might happen.
Marc:I wasn't so sure, but it seems like some of these vaccines and the nature of the the virus itself is I guess it's sort of a slow evolver.
Marc:It doesn't mutate too quickly.
Marc:So, like, you know, it might be we might be able to knock it back.
Guest:I hope so, man.
Guest:Gotta work.
Guest:As much as you probably enjoy the podcast and are thankful for the podcast, at the same time, I mean... I miss hanging out at the store.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I miss going out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I miss that more than I miss doing comedy.
Marc:I miss just being able to, like, I'm just gonna go over and...
Marc:It's going to hang.
Marc:Yeah, sit around.
Guest:No, there's so many times at the store where you just go and you sit back in either the green room way in the back or in the parking lot.
Guest:The hallway.
Guest:The hallway.
Guest:And I just stare.
Guest:You're hanging out and you're talking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you have a moment where you step back and go, holy shit.
Guest:Between the five people talking right here, we could sell out a stadium.
Guest:Or that one guy can.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, there's Russell Peters.
Guest:Yeah, if we all open for him.
Guest:Yeah, if we all open for Rogan, then yes, we could sell out the fucking Staples Center.
Guest:But yeah, there was a night where it was like Gaffigan and Kreischer and Rogan and Burr and Regan showed up.
Guest:And...
Guest:Everyone was talking and Bert was talking about tour bus problems and everything like that.
Guest:Everyone's nodding.
Guest:And then Bert came in and goes, dude, look outside.
Guest:There's a bunch of fucking Benzes and Teslas.
Guest:Shut the fuck up.
Guest:It's so crazy.
Guest:And those moments.
Guest:Those moments are what you miss.
Guest:And Whitney coming in with barbs and Annie Letterman being awesome.
Guest:I miss that.
Guest:That's why I want to get vaccinated just so I can run up to everyone and give them a hug and just be like, I fucking miss you.
Guest:I fucking miss you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Everyone played their part.
Guest:Everyone has that character that when so-and-so walks in, you're like, oh, cool.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:This person's here.
Guest:They're going to do that thing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, everyone.
Marc:Yeah, because we're all personalities, and you know what to expect.
Guest:And you're always going to get a laugh, that's for sure.
Guest:Now, when things do get back and you do get back on the road, will you have that thing where even when you're experiencing the hard parts of touring, will you be like, ah, it's not that bad?
Marc:Who knows?
Marc:I'm honestly surprised at how much I don't miss it.
Marc:I've been doing it most of my life without any break.
Marc:And right before the pandemic, days before, I dropped probably the best special I ever did.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:There's some part of me that just is sort of like, man, maybe I'm done.
Marc:Well, I mean- And they're all good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean- I've got to beat myself up for.
Guest:I totally feel you.
Guest:My second special, I talked about my dad getting cancer and then beating it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then at the end of the special, he's in the audience and-
Guest:I had this moment where I was filming it where I was like, don't look at him.
Guest:Don't look at him.
Guest:Don't look at him.
Guest:And then I look down and I see him and I start crying.
Guest:And then I started improvising like a thank you to him and just thanking him for everything that he did for me.
Guest:And then it was so cool because I got that moment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like I got that moment and now that's recorded.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like I have that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, after that, I was like, what am I going to do now?
Guest:Yeah, I think I'm fixed.
Marc:I think I'm all good.
Guest:What's that special called?
Guest:It's called Daddy Issues, and it's streaming on Amazon Prime.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:And so people could go and watch that there.
Guest:The craziest part about that, and I couldn't find a way.
Guest:That whole special, at least the dad parts.
Guest:was almost written just in one night because I was at the comedy works in Denver.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Or the, not the downtown club, the landmark one.
Guest:And I was in the green room and I knew that my dad was going in for a test.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And this is going to be where we find out like, uh,
Guest:is he okay or do we got to go for more chemo and that would essentially be not like it's just for show at that point yeah the so and i haven't gotten the phone call all day all day all day all day and then i'm about um i'm getting ready and my phone rings and i look down it's my mom so i go like okay it's the call and i answer and the first word she says are he's in remission
Guest:Whoa.
Guest:And I just burst out crying.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The other comics know that I've been telling them, I'm finding out this stuff today.
Guest:The other comics in the room see me get a call and then burst out crying.
Guest:So they're probably like, oh God, it's the worst thing ever.
Guest:And then literally as I'm crying, Chuck Roy is on stage and he just goes, please welcome Brad.
Guest:Oh no, I know.
There you go.
Guest:i had to go on stage and then like i go on stage and i've got tears streaming down my face and i can't just go well let's talk about what's in the news like i can't yeah i had to address it right so then i started i just started talking about it oh wow and i i hadn't talked about it the entire time he was going through it and you were getting some laughs
Guest:Yeah, and then I thought, ooh, there's something here.
Marc:It's interesting.
Marc:That's when it really happens, where you kind of got no choice, and you're in it, and then you realize that our skill set is getting laughs, right?
Marc:But that's how I write like that all the time, but you don't know why, but you know when you're up there, if you're going to be talking about anything, the impulse in you from 15 years of working is that, well, I'm going to find the laugh.
Marc:Yeah, I'll figure it out.
Marc:Right, that's going to happen innately.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I got to get there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A a acting coach gave me a set of line one time that I thought was so great where they said desperate people get super creative, super fast.
Guest:And it's it's it's really accurate.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And if you're charming and full of shit, then you got everything you need.
Guest:Yeah, I just got to work on the charm part.
Guest:Charming.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:It's true.
Guest:Those are some of those moments and that's what I can't wait to get back to.
Guest:Because right now we're all kind of stuck in a limbo where it's like we're not really...
Guest:working on material.
Marc:I know, it's hard.
Marc:But the other thing that's gone, it's like, we're also not competing with each other.
Marc:So there's a little reprieve.
Marc:Now, you're talking about driving shows.
Marc:I'm like, no, fuck that.
Marc:Do I got to be a...
Marc:Is that something I got to do now?
Marc:I got to start doing that now?
Marc:God damn it.
Guest:Gann, if you want, go out there with Kreischer.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:I'm going to take my shirt off with Burt.
Marc:I don't know if Burt's fans wouldn't know what to do with me.
Marc:It's like a lot of those guys, even Rogan's guys, I can get them laughing, and they respect me, but they're sort of like, I don't really want to hang out too long.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:See, that's so weird.
Guest:It's so weird for me to hear you say that because I think you're one of the guys.
Guest:I think you're one of the top people.
Marc:Yeah, but I'm my guy.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:I'm one of the guys, but I got my people.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Also, I can make anyone laugh.
Marc:I'm a pro.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I'm just not quite guy enough.
Yeah.
Guest:Man, it's a crazy thing because I watched the Comedy Store talk, loved it.
Guest:And then, of course, you talk about competing.
Guest:I'm in my head going, why didn't they talk to me?
Guest:Of course.
Guest:I just talked to Binder.
Guest:There's plenty of people that are pissed off about it.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I'm not mad at it.
Guest:The whole history of comics.
Guest:Yeah, there's so many stories that you can't tell.
Marc:Look at the number of names on that wall and count the number of people in the actual doc.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:So the ones that aren't dead on the wall, they're pissed a little bit.
Guest:Yeah, so I was looking at that like, oh man, I guess I'm not one of those...
Marc:cool comedy store people but then but then it's like it you are one of those people and you still have thoughts so it so i know i have a certain amount of self-acceptance okay you know but i do know that like there's part of me like like why can't i you know why am i not an arena act it's like well dude that's pretty clear you never were gunning for it and what would an arena of you an arena like an arena maron
Marc:Well, how many, you know, I mean, like I'm kind of a, I'm a specific thing in a way and I'm fine.
Marc:I've got just enough people to make a living, but like, what am I going to tell if I've, if I'm attracting an arena of people, there's a lot of trouble people.
Guest:Yeah, there's definitely some comics where you go like, yeah, I could see that making 12,000 people laugh.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, like that kind of big energy.
Marc:I have just the right size of where I'm going.
Marc:I'm happy with where I'm at.
Marc:And I accept that.
Marc:And it is truly, I'm grateful and I do think I've hit my level in terms of, and it's a good level.
Marc:But if there's more levels, you're going to have your days where you're like, nah, fuck.
Marc:Where's my plane?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know, man.
Guest:I will say that one thing that having the family gives you is that none of that shit matters.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So I got to go get me.
Marc:I'll go get myself a family.
Marc:Go get one.
Guest:Then you won't compare.
Guest:Then I'll just come home.
Guest:I'll look at my wife.
Guest:I look at the Asian dwarf baby or the ADB as we call her.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I just go, okay.
Guest:There we go.
Guest:Life's good.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So it's never like, oh, fuck.
Marc:Now I got to feed you guys.
Yeah.
Guest:I mean, sometimes.
Guest:Sometimes I want to put the Asian dwarf baby to work and be like, hey, could you pull your weight?
Guest:Do something here?
Guest:Well, you've got time.
Guest:One day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Thanks, Brett.
Guest:Hey, thanks, buddy.
Marc:Brad Williams, funny fella, nice guy.
Marc:Come see him when he comes near you to do the thing.
Marc:I can't play guitar.
Marc:I don't got it in me.
Marc:I don't know if the, do I have music in me?
Marc:I can play harmonica or just a little.
Guest:.
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Guest:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey.
Marc:La Fonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.