Episode 1179 - James Caan

Episode 1179 • Released November 30, 2020 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks what's happening how's it going where you act throw it away already throw the leftovers away it's you don't it's not your responsibility to to kind of string out

00:00:30Marc:You know, the number of things you can do with drying out turkey, unless it's like unless you enjoy it.

00:00:35Marc:You know, my mistake.

00:00:36Marc:You know what?

00:00:37Marc:Let me take that back.

00:00:38Marc:Do make it last forever.

00:00:41Marc:Make the soup.

00:00:42Marc:Make the stew.

00:00:43Marc:Make the pot pie.

00:00:44Marc:Do whatever.

00:00:44Marc:String it along for as long as you can, because what else are we doing?

00:00:49Marc:I hope you had a good holiday.

00:00:51Marc:I hope that if you didn't listen to the pep talks on the last episode of WTF, you can always go there.

00:01:00Marc:And also, it's a good episode.

00:01:01Marc:A lot of people space to listen, but it's Mike Campbell from Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.

00:01:06Marc:And it was really an exciting episode.

00:01:08Marc:I was excited, excited to talk to him.

00:01:11Marc:The conversation took place pre-COVID, pre-tragedy.

00:01:16Marc:It was a different time, man.

00:01:18Marc:It was a different time.

00:01:20Marc:But I do hope that you dealt with the holiday okay.

00:01:24Marc:Personally, it was the least aggravating, least stressful, more connected Thanksgiving I've ever had.

00:01:33Marc:It was just me and one other person.

00:01:35Marc:And I cooked the stuff.

00:01:37Marc:I was not thrilled with the way things came out, a lot of it.

00:01:41Marc:I don't guess I need to go into it.

00:01:43Marc:Because it is what it is, right?

00:01:45Marc:You do what you can, right?

00:01:47Marc:But fuck turkeys.

00:01:48Marc:Seriously.

00:01:50Marc:Enough with the turkeys.

00:01:52Marc:You know what?

00:01:54Marc:I don't know.

00:01:55Marc:Let's talk about this.

00:01:56Marc:This is exciting.

00:01:58Marc:James Caan.

00:02:00Marc:Fucking James Caan is on the show today.

00:02:04Marc:Do I need to tell you who he is?

00:02:05Marc:I shouldn't.

00:02:07Marc:The Godfather.

00:02:08Marc:He was in Misery.

00:02:09Marc:Thief.

00:02:10Marc:He was in some great older movies.

00:02:12Marc:The Killer Elite.

00:02:13Marc:The Rain People.

00:02:15Marc:The Gambler.

00:02:16Marc:Harry and Walter go to New York.

00:02:19Marc:James Caan feels like somebody...

00:02:22Marc:who's been in my life since I was a child, because he has.

00:02:26Marc:And he was one of those guys that my father liked, you know, the tough Jew.

00:02:30Marc:There's not that many tough Jews.

00:02:32Marc:So, you know, my dad wanting, aspiring to be a tough Jew.

00:02:36Marc:I imagine many...

00:02:38Marc:of the sort of nebbishy Jews that were trying to evolve into something more aggressive.

00:02:45Marc:Who isn't a big James Caan fan?

00:02:50Marc:I talked to his kid Scott not long ago, and this just happened, man.

00:02:53Marc:It just happened because somebody happened to tweet at him that he should come on the podcast, and his assistant set it up.

00:03:01Marc:Nothing to promote.

00:03:03Marc:just to talk to him but he's still fucking tough and he had some good stories it was very exciting it was very exciting and also many of you know him from elf which is always on television but sunny sunny and the godfather right sunny right good story about where the character of sunny comes from good story so anyways what here's a couple of things i realized over thanksgiving

00:03:31Marc:is that turkey, not that great.

00:03:34Marc:It's never that good.

00:03:36Marc:That the big con, the big racket is, you know, once a year, we try to make this gamey, tough bird interesting and good, and it's just not that good.

00:03:47Marc:Think about it.

00:03:49Marc:I mean, it makes a good cold cut.

00:03:51Marc:It's okay, a nice sliced turkey sandwich.

00:03:54Marc:I don't mind that.

00:03:55Marc:But the whole idea of turkey, it's just not a great bird.

00:04:00Marc:That's why chicken is popular.

00:04:01Marc:That's why you don't go to a restaurant and wonder what the turkey dish is.

00:04:05Marc:It's not there.

00:04:07Marc:I think we should give the turkeys a break already.

00:04:09Marc:I got this mediocre turkey from a place.

00:04:12Marc:I wasn't even going to do it.

00:04:13Marc:I was at the place where I get fish and they had turkeys available.

00:04:16Marc:So I got a little one and decided to invite my friend kid over and we do the thing.

00:04:20Marc:And I don't know, maybe I fucked it up.

00:04:23Marc:Maybe that's what I'm having a hard time admitting.

00:04:25Marc:I'm usually so good at it because when I'm down in Florida cooking for 20 people, 24 people at my mother's house, we go to that Delaware poultry joint.

00:04:34Marc:uh in lauderdale or wherever the fuck it is we get these turkeys that you know have been dead hours and they're fresh as fuck and they're just they're as good as turkey's gonna get so i bought this smaller turkey and i i was on top of it and all of a sudden it was overcooked a little bit but it was the chess pie man the fucking chess pie

00:04:58Marc:I love chess pie.

00:05:00Marc:It's it's a southern regional dessert.

00:05:03Marc:OK, I never made it.

00:05:05Marc:Some people, you know, they like the chocolate chess pie, the lemon chess pie.

00:05:09Marc:There's a lot of different chess pies.

00:05:10Marc:It's basically kind of like a custard pie in a way.

00:05:14Marc:But I made the crust, which I was nervous about, but it came out fucking perfect.

00:05:18Marc:I made the chest pie and it's like you cook it and the custard sets and then the top caramelizes naturally, almost like a creme brulee.

00:05:28Marc:It's just a southern regional pie that I was obsessed with briefly.

00:05:32Marc:And when I go down south, I eat it.

00:05:34Marc:Not unlike barbecue.

00:05:35Marc:I'm not going to eat barbecue where there's no barbecue.

00:05:38Marc:I'm not going to eat chest pie if it's not indigenous.

00:05:41Marc:But I decided for some fucking reason I needed to make a chest pie.

00:05:44Marc:I needed to make my own pie crust.

00:05:46Marc:And that's a fucking frustrating crapshoot.

00:05:48Marc:You don't know what's going to happen with a pie crust.

00:05:51Marc:And the lady, I'm watching the lady on the video make it.

00:05:54Marc:And she's just whipping it out, rolling it out like it's nothing.

00:05:57Marc:And then you got to realize, like, how many fucking times?

00:06:00Marc:How is there a pile of fucking fucked up, broken, not attractive looking, rolled out attempts at pie crust next to her in a garbage can?

00:06:09Marc:Look, I'm not saying she's no good at what she does.

00:06:12Marc:I'm just saying that.

00:06:13Marc:They're not going to show you the real struggle that us mortals have who aren't bakers.

00:06:20Marc:You know, you got to fucking figure it out.

00:06:23Marc:You know, do it by hand a little bit.

00:06:24Marc:But it came out great.

00:06:26Marc:The pie was fucking great.

00:06:27Marc:It was literally one of those desserts where I took a bite and it made me cry with joy.

00:06:34Marc:The sugar.

00:06:35Marc:But I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.

00:06:38Marc:And I hope that your whiny, complaining, whinging, Trump-loving relatives didn't bum you out.

00:06:49Marc:The idea, it's like, it's amazing to me.

00:06:52Marc:The idea that these fucking fake alpha snowflakes

00:07:00Marc:Call progressive people or people they think who are liberal whiny.

00:07:06Marc:These fucking guys are the most.

00:07:10Marc:Maybe they don't see it as whining.

00:07:11Marc:Maybe let's just call it what it is.

00:07:12Marc:Bitching and moaning by inflated cucks who think they're alphas who have been misled by a pig grifter.

00:07:22Marc:Brain fucked by the pig grifter.

00:07:25Marc:And now all they do is whine and complain and cry like little babies.

00:07:32Marc:They cry fraud when they just sore losers.

00:07:38Marc:They are like what has been revealed here outside of the con, outside of the grift, outside of just an election where the pig president was handed his ass.

00:07:48Marc:What's been revealed here is that, my God,

00:07:54Marc:These right-wing trolley idiots are much bigger babies than any of the progressives I know.

00:08:01Marc:What a bunch of babies.

00:08:05Marc:Oh, my God.

00:08:07Marc:The whining never stops.

00:08:09Marc:And then when you think about it, that's all they fucking do.

00:08:13Marc:It's like just a victim mode.

00:08:17Marc:How is it that these dudes, these patriotic guys who think they're alphas, never stop complaining?

00:08:24Marc:It's fucking unreal.

00:08:26Marc:I'm glad there's clarity coming, a little bit of clarity.

00:08:29Marc:At least everyone has stood up and was counted over the last four years.

00:08:32Marc:We know who everybody is, don't we?

00:08:34Marc:A couple of things happened.

00:08:36Marc:I watched the Belushi documentary on Showtime, and it was weird.

00:08:42Marc:I reconnected with how much I loved that guy when I was a younger person, when SNL was the first season.

00:08:50Marc:Him and Chevy, I loved them.

00:08:52Marc:I mean, I really loved that guy.

00:08:54Marc:And I think a lot of us did of my age who grew up with that.

00:08:58Marc:And I remember the day he died.

00:09:00Marc:I was a freshman in college and I used to have a little picture of him, of just his eye on the door of my room, of my dorm room in college.

00:09:09Marc:And I remember the day he died because I got my car towed that day.

00:09:13Marc:It was just a horrible day.

00:09:15Marc:And there's just, I remember those pictures of him being so heavy and so fucked up on drugs.

00:09:21Marc:And it really hurt me in some way that this hilarious guy who I was so attached to just couldn't reel it in.

00:09:33Marc:And the night or two after I saw that documentary, I had a drug dream for the first time in a while.

00:09:39Marc:And it's a weird dream.

00:09:41Marc:Just some guy at a bar, some kind of like little bearded dude, look like he's having a good time.

00:09:46Marc:He said, hey, man, you want to do a bump?

00:09:49Marc:And I'm like, all right.

00:09:50Marc:Like, I remember thinking like, yes, I'm ready to bump now.

00:09:53Marc:I'm ready to do a bump.

00:09:54Marc:We got into this bathroom and it was so small.

00:09:57Marc:It was not a stall.

00:09:58Marc:It was the actual bathroom.

00:09:59Marc:It was so small that we were like right up against each other.

00:10:02Marc:And his stomach was protruding and it was touching me.

00:10:05Marc:And he's pulling these bumps out with a little out of a little vial with a little spoon.

00:10:09Marc:And he gave me he gave himself a bump and then he gave me a bump.

00:10:11Marc:And I remember in the dream, like just one nostril.

00:10:14Marc:We're only doing one nostril.

00:10:15Marc:And then it was it was all cramped in there.

00:10:17Marc:I'm like, I got to get the fuck out of here.

00:10:19Marc:And I left.

00:10:20Marc:I just remember, like, I felt the burning in my nose.

00:10:22Marc:It was very familiar.

00:10:23Marc:And I woke up guilty because I remembered.

00:10:28Marc:But it didn't happen.

00:10:30Marc:And I guess it was connected to Belushi, but it was not a good experience.

00:10:33Marc:And I and I'm glad I opened the door to get out for a couple of reasons.

00:10:37Marc:Too cramped in there.

00:10:38Marc:It didn't look like the dude was going to give me a second bump.

00:10:41Marc:But that being said, that kind of opened up some portal into my past.

00:10:45Marc:And then the last few days or night before last, I was putting together, I'm trying to set up a room in my house for my office.

00:10:54Marc:And I was going through all these photo albums of me and my parents in the late 60s and 70s.

00:11:00Marc:And it was, I don't know, man.

00:11:04Marc:When you really sit with that stuff and you look at that stuff and you realize that your parents were young once and that they, you know, they might not have been happy, but they definitely were engaging in life.

00:11:16Marc:They were out in the world.

00:11:18Marc:My mother was dressing up in all these kind of mod clothes.

00:11:21Marc:Same with my dad.

00:11:22Marc:They're drinking, they're smoking, they're partying, they're swinging, they're doing whatever the fuck they're doing.

00:11:27Marc:And I'm just sitting there thinking like, is anyone going to pay attention to me?

00:11:32Yeah.

00:11:32Marc:There's pictures where it's just, oh, my God.

00:11:35Marc:Thank God for my grandma.

00:11:37Marc:But I don't know.

00:11:37Marc:It just opened up this whole kind of valve in my heart.

00:11:44Marc:Kind of, you know, where I came from and that it was a real.

00:11:48Marc:It's been a real fucking journey.

00:11:52Marc:And there's so much going on in the present and there's so much we dump in our head in the present with the phones and with everything.

00:11:59Marc:It's like your just brain is occupied with garbage all the time.

00:12:04Marc:Engage with garbage to just sort of avoid the fear, the pain, the sadness, the anger, whatever it is.

00:12:14Marc:But there's just this constant get me out of this.

00:12:18Marc:And there I was looking at my whole life in pictures, and I'm like, get me in this.

00:12:24Marc:Let's get this dug in.

00:12:26Marc:You came from someplace.

00:12:27Marc:You went through something.

00:12:29Marc:So did your parents.

00:12:30Marc:Look at them.

00:12:31Marc:Look where you are now.

00:12:32Marc:You're 57 years old.

00:12:34Marc:My father's going to be 82 today.

00:12:37Marc:Fuck, I got to call my dad.

00:12:40Marc:My mother's probably going to be 79.

00:12:44Marc:And I'm 57.

00:12:47Marc:I'm looking at pictures from 1972 of me wearing a little vest that my mom dressed me up like a little mod hippie kid.

00:12:56Marc:A lot of outfits.

00:13:00Marc:But I'm that same guy.

00:13:01Marc:That guy is inside of me.

00:13:03Marc:He lives in me.

00:13:04Marc:He's been there the whole time.

00:13:06Marc:I got to get him up to speed.

00:13:11Marc:I got to get that kid up to speed.

00:13:14Marc:I got to meet him midway.

00:13:17Marc:So that's what's going to be happening.

00:13:19Marc:So James Caan, what an honor this was.

00:13:24Marc:You know, he's James Caan.

00:13:27Marc:This is me talking to him.

00:13:29Marc:Enjoy it.

00:13:39Marc:Hey, Mark.

00:13:40Marc:What are you doing?

00:13:41Marc:I'm good.

00:13:41Marc:How are you, James?

00:13:43Marc:Who gives a shit?

00:13:44Marc:That's exactly my feeling.

00:13:46Marc:Exactly.

00:13:48Marc:How are you feeling, man?

00:13:50Marc:How's your back?

00:13:51Guest:My back, oddly enough, is good.

00:13:54Guest:Where they...

00:13:56Guest:cut so many times and that's what i always tell people they cut three times long wide and repeatedly yeah i had two back operations before mind you that's not counting the 21 that i had from my normal way of life from the time i was about 14. right which didn't include very many jewish activities no yeah like how'd you do it how'd you your back up

00:14:22Guest:Well, no, I mean, it was, I mean, I mean, non-Jewish activities is the answer for all of them.

00:14:30Guest:I mean, I rodeoed professionally for nine years.

00:14:32Guest:A Jew from New York, Queens, Brooklyn.

00:14:34Guest:Yeah.

00:14:35Guest:Open ocean racing.

00:14:36Guest:Yeah.

00:14:37Guest:Motorcycles.

00:14:38Guest:Right.

00:14:38Guest:Karate for 35 years.

00:14:40Guest:I mean, you name it.

00:14:41Guest:And I did it.

00:14:43Guest:I don't know why.

00:14:43Marc:Non-Jewish activities, you call them.

00:14:46Guest:Yeah.

00:14:47Guest:I mean, who does that?

00:14:48Guest:I mean, who does that?

00:14:50Guest:Well, how Jewish did you grow up?

00:14:52Guest:How Jewish can you grow up?

00:14:54Guest:I mean, I don't know.

00:14:55Guest:My parents were German Jews.

00:14:58Marc:Did they speak Yiddish in the house?

00:15:01Guest:No, I didn't speak a Yiddish anywhere.

00:15:03Guest:It was bad enough I had to learn to speak German a little bit, you know?

00:15:07Guest:Right.

00:15:07Guest:Because my mother, you know, she called out the way to Jamesy.

00:15:09Guest:She called me Jamesy.

00:15:10Guest:Good thing I was fairly rough when I was young because I'd fight every day.

00:15:15Guest:Ma, don't put your head out there and say Jamesy, okay?

00:15:18Guest:It's like, you know, I had a full fight by the time I get to the front door.

00:15:21Guest:You're not helping anything.

00:15:23Guest:Oh, Jamesy.

00:15:24Guest:No, they were German Jews and my dad was a beast.

00:15:28Guest:He was...

00:15:30Guest:He was in the meat business.

00:15:32Guest:He was a butcher.

00:15:33Guest:Sounds good.

00:15:35Marc:Could he break down a whole cow?

00:15:37Guest:He could break down you and a whole cow.

00:15:42Guest:He was a big man.

00:15:43Guest:He was a good guy, man.

00:15:44Guest:He

00:15:45Guest:he uh he serviced restaurants he was like the go-between between the market and restaurants right in a truck that i used to have to clean out the blood when i was old enough to get a car and go pick up a girl for the first time yeah i had to get the fat and blood smell out of the station so i used to get them stupid things that you hang on the dingle dangles all over the friggin car

00:16:08Guest:yeah you know yeah you mean the little trees smell like a whole house yeah but anything yeah my mother's perfume when she wasn't looking squirted in there there was three of us yeah my younger brother and my sister so we had one car in the family then he finally got another one yeah i mean it wasn't like oh can i have the uh saturday car dad yeah right you could have this right in your freaking mouth get out of here was he that guy he was a was he a fighter

00:16:36Guest:No, he was a tough guy.

00:16:38Guest:He was a great guy.

00:16:39Guest:He was about 5'9", 5'9 1⁄2", about 220.

00:16:44Marc:Yeah.

00:16:44Marc:Did he live to see your success?

00:16:46Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:16:47Guest:When I made the first $50 I made, I threw my whole family out here.

00:16:51Marc:Yeah?

00:16:52Guest:So, yeah.

00:16:53Guest:That was a mistake.

00:16:54Guest:My dad...

00:16:55Guest:My dad didn't know what to do with himself out here.

00:16:58Marc:You know, like how long did he come out for?

00:17:00Marc:He didn't know what to do.

00:17:01Guest:I brought him out here.

00:17:02Guest:I shut him down out there.

00:17:04Marc:Oh, I see.

00:17:05Marc:Oh, you removed him out here.

00:17:07Guest:Yeah.

00:17:08Guest:See, his job is what made me an actor because I didn't want to do that.

00:17:14Guest:I did not want to do that.

00:17:15Guest:but it's not like you want to do a lot of things yeah it's interesting that you chose act you don't want to you don't want to be a butcher but you know you did a lot of exciting stuff see marcus what i like about you really sharp you pick that up like nothing like that what do you mean they want to be a butcher you're a bright son of a how long is this interview

00:17:35Marc:All right, all right, all right.

00:17:38Marc:But it seems like you had other interests.

00:17:40Marc:You had a lot of options.

00:17:41Marc:Why did you choose acting?

00:17:42Marc:Doesn't seem like you need to rack it.

00:17:45Guest:It's interesting.

00:17:46Guest:I don't know.

00:17:46Guest:But I was like the tougher guy in the neighborhood.

00:17:49Guest:Right.

00:17:49Guest:You know what I mean?

00:17:50Guest:Yeah.

00:17:51Guest:When I went to school, I mean, I loved making people laugh all the time.

00:17:55Guest:Right.

00:17:56Guest:All my friends were like three years older than me.

00:17:58Guest:I was...

00:17:59Guest:Fairly large for my size.

00:18:01Guest:I mean, my age.

00:18:02Guest:I was 14, 15.

00:18:02Guest:I was already 5'11", about 175, 180.

00:18:05Guest:In order to be the toughest guy in the neighborhood, here's what you have to do.

00:18:09Guest:I'm telling all these young kids about it.

00:18:11Guest:So at PS150, you had to fight three times a week or you'd get beat up three times a week.

00:18:16Guest:It didn't matter.

00:18:18Guest:So you had to fight all the time.

00:18:19Guest:So what I did on the first day of school when I went to PS150, there was a kid named Billy Spiro.

00:18:25Guest:lived across the boulevard you know billy anyway and i told him i'll meet him after class yeah

00:18:34Guest:And we'll go into the garden.

00:18:35Guest:There was a place they called the garden.

00:18:37Guest:Right.

00:18:37Guest:All my life that I was there, I never saw a flower and it was just dirt.

00:18:41Marc:Right.

00:18:41Marc:Yeah.

00:18:42Guest:It was a dirt yard.

00:18:43Marc:Yeah.

00:18:43Marc:Flowers were long gone.

00:18:45Guest:Yeah.

00:18:46Guest:No, I had already given them to my girlfriend.

00:18:47Guest:Yeah.

00:18:48Guest:So anyway, I said to Billy, I'll meet you.

00:18:52Guest:So I beat the piss out of Billy.

00:18:54Guest:Right.

00:18:54Guest:Yeah.

00:18:55Guest:And for that, I never had a fight again.

00:18:57Guest:I was like the big guy in school.

00:18:59Guest:You see what I mean?

00:19:00Guest:So this way I put all my fights into one fight.

00:19:03Guest:Yeah.

00:19:03Guest:If I wanted, I was home free for four years.

00:19:06Marc:You know what I'm saying?

00:19:07Marc:Yeah.

00:19:07Marc:It's like the first day in prison.

00:19:09Marc:Yeah.

00:19:09Guest:I was already, I hacked the bullshitter guy already.

00:19:12Guest:Like from the time I was in the ninth grade, you know?

00:19:14Marc:So no one fuck with you for four years.

00:19:16Yeah.

00:19:16Guest:No, no.

00:19:17Guest:I mean, I had to clean up cases.

00:19:20Guest:I was like the godfather.

00:19:21Guest:Yeah.

00:19:23Guest:And then I played a lot of ball.

00:19:25Marc:So that's when did the acting bug grab you?

00:19:29Guest:Well, I went to Michigan State when I was 16.

00:19:35Guest:That's not because I was smart, Mark.

00:19:36Guest:I saw your face drop a little bit.

00:19:38Guest:Yeah, a little bit.

00:19:39Guest:I was not smart.

00:19:41Guest:Not smart.

00:19:42Guest:It had nothing to do with being smart.

00:19:43Guest:It had to do with being... They had to get rid of me.

00:19:47Guest:They wanted me out of that freaking school so bad, which was Rhodes High School.

00:19:52Marc:Enough of this kid.

00:19:53Guest:So I became president of my student body when I was 14.

00:19:57Guest:Yeah.

00:19:57Guest:So I had, I was that president of the student body.

00:20:00Guest:Yeah.

00:20:01Guest:Played basketball and baseball for them.

00:20:03Guest:And when I was president, I got in all these, these special classes or things that you give away, like driver's ed.

00:20:11Guest:They didn't want that.

00:20:12Guest:I got that.

00:20:12Guest:Yeah.

00:20:13Guest:I got all the things that the school really didn't need.

00:20:15Guest:Right.

00:20:16Guest:Yeah.

00:20:16Guest:So they got rid of me.

00:20:18Guest:They, I went to one summer school and went to Michigan state.

00:20:21Guest:Now at 16 and I went to try to play some football.

00:20:24Guest:By then I was about one 90, uh,

00:20:26Guest:5'11 and a half, 5'11 and a half.

00:20:29Guest:I finally got, the back operation made me six foot.

00:20:33Marc:Stretched you out.

00:20:33Guest:I had to always wash this from crashes and whatnot.

00:20:38Marc:They filled them in with metal?

00:20:39Marc:They put metal in there?

00:20:41Guest:I have no idea.

00:20:42Guest:They didn't let me look.

00:20:43Guest:I don't know.

00:20:44Guest:Yeah.

00:20:45Guest:I do hear music all day long, though.

00:20:48Guest:I swear to God.

00:20:49Marc:It comes right in.

00:20:50Marc:You're picking up the radio?

00:20:51Guest:Yeah, these songs.

00:20:52Guest:God bless America all day.

00:20:55Guest:And then the volume.

00:20:56Marc:So you played ball?

00:20:56Marc:Did you play football?

00:20:58Guest:Yeah, a little bit.

00:20:59Guest:And then I'll tell you this story.

00:21:00Guest:I played.

00:21:01Guest:I came there.

00:21:03Guest:I lied, first of all, that I wasn't because my social life was already dead.

00:21:06Guest:I'm 16.

00:21:07Guest:Yeah.

00:21:07Guest:And I'm a Jew.

00:21:08Guest:That really went big in Michigan State.

00:21:11Marc:No good, huh?

00:21:12Guest:No, no.

00:21:12Guest:Because you had to have two sports to keep your scholarship.

00:21:15Guest:So I went to boxing.

00:21:17Guest:I had one other heavyweight in the class and on the team.

00:21:21Guest:Yeah.

00:21:22Guest:And for midterm...

00:21:23Guest:we had a box three rounds right i don't know i boxed this kid was nothing really and i hit him a right hand i think somewhere in like the end of the first round yeah and down he went yeah so i didn't have to do anything after for that second there was nobody else to fight just like high school but uh so what happened how'd you get into acting well i'll tell you the story and then it'll go backwards yeah 16 years later when i'm fairly popular on the

00:21:50Guest:i'm being humble i was so popular it was ridiculous early 70s 16 years after i left school yeah and duffy doherty at michigan state had retired and he loved the racetrack duffy doherty did so he he he moved to uh santa barbara

00:22:11Guest:So he'd go to those tracks for their whole meetings.

00:22:13Guest:You know, he loved it.

00:22:14Guest:Yeah.

00:22:14Guest:And I go, I go there one day and I had a horse, a few of us had a little, so it got me into the director's room, you know, the fancy room above the fancy room here.

00:22:25Marc:Cause you owned a couple of horses.

00:22:27Guest:i owned some people back east they gave me a horse okay yeah yeah some of those guys his name was cowboy's obsession so anyway i'd go there and there was a kid named archie matzels who was a tackle excuse me he's a guard at our school all-american who became all pro at new orleans

00:22:48Guest:And I go to the track and I walk in the director's room and there's the fidelity with Johnny Majors and Bud Christensen.

00:22:56Guest:Johnny Majors had just won coach of the year for Pittsburgh from Pittsburgh and Bud Christensen, you know, from Oklahoma.

00:23:02Guest:I mean,

00:23:03Guest:And of course, the coach said, this is part of the reason I was already acting.

00:23:09Guest:Yeah.

00:23:09Guest:He says, oh, here's one of my dummies.

00:23:11Guest:He says, come here.

00:23:13Guest:So I come over.

00:23:14Guest:I see head coach.

00:23:15Guest:He said, hello.

00:23:15Guest:I'm really honored to see these two guys, too.

00:23:17Guest:Yeah.

00:23:18Guest:He said, you know something?

00:23:20Guest:He said,

00:23:21Guest:He said, I ought to get 10 percent of your career.

00:23:25Guest:I said, why is that coach?

00:23:27Guest:He said, I told you to quit playing football.

00:23:30Guest:So that's why that was one of the reasons I started.

00:23:33Guest:Right.

00:23:34Guest:I wasn't really a good student.

00:23:36Guest:I just hated it.

00:23:38Guest:I don't know why.

00:23:39Guest:I just didn't like it.

00:23:40Marc:But you like playing sports.

00:23:42Guest:Oh, I love playing sports.

00:23:44Guest:I've done that.

00:23:45Guest:That's the reason for all my other injuries.

00:23:47Guest:I mean, golf, tennis, I mean, everything.

00:23:50Marc:Yeah.

00:23:50Guest:And I mean, a rodeo is like stupid enough for a Jew.

00:23:53Marc:That was crazy.

00:23:54Guest:How old were you when you did rodeo?

00:23:57Guest:I started, my best friend's a guy named, he was a stuntman's name, and my brother-in-law, Walter Scott.

00:24:04Marc:And he got you into rodeo?

00:24:05Guest:I started doing it there, yeah, and I started rodeo.

00:24:08Guest:I mean, I started to rope, right?

00:24:10Guest:But you're already acting, right?

00:24:12Guest:This is just a hobby.

00:24:12Guest:Of course I'm acting.

00:24:13Guest:Who can afford the rodeo?

00:24:15Guest:I'm going to go on a fucking road for like...

00:24:19Guest:you know 10 hours a day and eat relish sandwiches yeah i was ready i could afford to do that you know right right i was doing that because i wasn't winning a lot you get it not winning a lot yeah a fucking jew actor from fucking beverly hills yeah when they used to announce me i wanted to kill the announcer do you have to say beverly hills and now you know from beverly hills you pots yeah you can you get off and say selmar say some kind of cute name they don't know

00:24:49Marc:What if they just said Jew?

00:24:50Marc:Here's the Jew from Beverly Hills.

00:24:53Guest:Here's the Jew on the horse.

00:24:54Guest:You know what I mean?

00:24:54Guest:You don't even kid around with that shit.

00:24:56Guest:You don't kid around with that stuff.

00:24:57Guest:A Jew, yeah.

00:24:59Guest:Nothing.

00:25:00Guest:Nothing.

00:25:01Guest:They knew.

00:25:02Guest:Yeah.

00:25:03Guest:So you were roping...

00:25:05Guest:I was roping, doping, doing everything.

00:25:08Guest:I started to rope calves and rope steers.

00:25:12Marc:Holy shit.

00:25:12Marc:So you really knew how to do that.

00:25:14Marc:When it comes a horseman, you knew what was up.

00:25:17Guest:Yeah, a lot of that was all real.

00:25:20Guest:That was some hairy shit.

00:25:22Marc:I was watching that movie, and when you were tying up that calf, you knew what you were fucking doing, right?

00:25:27Guest:See, you're a smart guy, Mark.

00:25:29Marc:Yeah.

00:25:29Marc:I know.

00:25:30Guest:I keep impressing you.

00:25:31Guest:Comedians don't know shit.

00:25:33Marc:Nah, I'm sharp.

00:25:35Marc:I pay attention.

00:25:36Marc:Yeah, you make shit up and people laugh.

00:25:38Marc:They don't know you're fucking dumber than a coward.

00:25:41Marc:Of course not.

00:25:42Marc:I'm getting away with it.

00:25:43Marc:It's a hustle.

00:25:44Marc:It's a fucking hustle.

00:25:46Marc:I got a question for you.

00:25:47Marc:What happens at the... Because I got nothing to do during the pandemic, so I'm watching movies and I got to watch a bunch of old movies even before...

00:25:55Marc:Even before I knew I was going to talk to you, I was at one night where I'm like, I want to see a Jimmy Conn movie I'd never seen before.

00:26:01Marc:And I watched Slither, which I thought was pretty.

00:26:05Guest:Holy shit.

00:26:06Guest:You dug in there, didn't you, pal?

00:26:08Marc:Yeah, I liked it, though.

00:26:09Marc:I like it.

00:26:09Marc:I like Peter Boyle.

00:26:10Marc:Sally Kellerman was on my TV show.

00:26:12Guest:Sally Kellerman.

00:26:14Guest:Yeah.

00:26:14Guest:We had a guy, Jack Smith, who, the director, he had a glottal hell like Peter Falk.

00:26:19Guest:Yeah.

00:26:20Guest:Listen to me when I got a...

00:26:22Guest:And so he has Peter Boyle.

00:26:25Guest:Yeah.

00:26:25Guest:Sally Coleman.

00:26:26Guest:I mean, it was hysterical.

00:26:28Guest:Everybody with two L's.

00:26:29Guest:It was hysterical.

00:26:30Marc:Couldn't do it.

00:26:31Marc:But I got a question for you.

00:26:32Marc:What the hell happens at the end of Countdown?

00:26:35Marc:Does that guy die or does he make it to the fucking thing?

00:26:37Guest:Oh, wow.

00:26:37Guest:What a way you hit.

00:26:38Guest:That's unbelievable.

00:26:40Guest:It was Bob Allman's first movie.

00:26:42Guest:You understand that?

00:26:43Guest:Yes.

00:26:43Guest:Yeah.

00:26:44Guest:Nobody knew.

00:26:46Guest:So the first time we shot this stuff, for example...

00:26:49Guest:when he wired everybody and found a way with the sound department to record the sound with people overlapping each other.

00:26:58Guest:There's a first sight, you know, if you're talking to everybody, it's got to be shut up and everything is shut off before you get the line.

00:27:05Guest:But he came out with...

00:27:06Guest:you know, the ability to do, and all his pictures did that.

00:27:11Guest:You could hear conversations going on.

00:27:13Guest:Right.

00:27:14Guest:Instead of it being filtered in after the take.

00:27:18Guest:But that's not what made him great.

00:27:19Guest:Bob Oman was a good director.

00:27:22Yeah.

00:27:22Guest:Bob Alton was also the first guy who had... You remember Scopatone?

00:27:27Guest:Where you put a dollar in a jukebox and it played a video?

00:27:30Guest:It was the first time.

00:27:31Marc:I don't know if I know what that was.

00:27:33Marc:Yeah.

00:27:33Guest:Well, in other words, it was the jukeboxes that showed videos.

00:27:37Guest:Right, yeah, yeah.

00:27:38Guest:He made the videos...

00:27:39Guest:for the for the song yeah so you got the song and you also got a video i get it yeah it was pretty cool and he did one in his house he threw a party and he asked me he says jimmy come up and be in my video what video i mean yeah the reviews haven't come out yet i'm doing videos come on so i i go i go up to the house

00:28:03Guest:And we do this video.

00:28:05Guest:Oh, I don't know, about three weeks later, we're working at TRW at night.

00:28:09Guest:And for lunch, he set up these folding chairs in front of a screen, a portable screen.

00:28:16Guest:And he wanted to show the crew and everybody, you know, the video it just shot.

00:28:19Guest:And it was a video of this party that he threw up there.

00:28:23Guest:Really beautifully done.

00:28:25Guest:And, you know, people and the dialogue.

00:28:28Guest:Right, yeah, yeah.

00:28:28Guest:Where it could be.

00:28:29Guest:And I'm sitting there.

00:28:31Guest:And mind you, this is like midnight, you know, like one o'clock.

00:28:35Guest:I'm sitting there and all of a sudden there's a shot of this blonde girl holding a tray.

00:28:44Guest:I sit up on my seat.

00:28:46Guest:I never saw anything like this.

00:28:48Guest:Oh, my God.

00:28:49Guest:And I watch her walk across the scene.

00:28:53Guest:And I yell, I'm just an idiot.

00:28:56Guest:Stop the fucking shit.

00:28:59Guest:Stop it.

00:29:00Guest:Jimmy, Jimmy said, stop the video right now, please.

00:29:02Guest:I beg you.

00:29:02Guest:We go back.

00:29:04Guest:Back it up a little bit.

00:29:06Guest:Jimmy, Bob, please, I beg you.

00:29:08Guest:He stops it.

00:29:11Guest:Who in the fuck is that?

00:29:13Guest:I'm whispering to you, which is hysterical.

00:29:15Guest:Yeah.

00:29:16Guest:Who the fuck was that?

00:29:17Guest:Yeah.

00:29:18Guest:He goes, it's my daughter.

00:29:22Guest:Oops.

00:29:24Guest:His daughter.

00:29:25Guest:He runs home and he says, guess who I got you for Christmas?

00:29:28Guest:She says to her.

00:29:30Guest:So we went out for a while.

00:29:32Guest:You did?

00:29:33Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:29:33Guest:She was great.

00:29:34Guest:Great girl.

00:29:36Guest:That's pretty funny.

00:29:37Marc:You know what else I watched?

00:29:38Marc:You know what I watched last night?

00:29:39Marc:I watched...

00:29:40Marc:the killer elite oh man that's another you what okay these are little off movies which i kind of almost forgot kill you with sam peckinpah right but you know you but you but that movie you and deval was so tight by that point like you guys like you see my best friend i was great though but you guys actually you liked each other right

00:30:00Guest:Listen, I did.

00:30:02Guest:He's my best friend.

00:30:03Guest:I've done five or six movies with Bobby.

00:30:05Guest:Yeah.

00:30:05Guest:I mean, he still calls me.

00:30:06Guest:He's just absolutely crazy, you know, Bobby.

00:30:09Guest:Yeah.

00:30:09Guest:He's the greatest, but he's in his 80s.

00:30:13Marc:He's in Kentucky or somewhere, right?

00:30:16Marc:In Virginia.

00:30:16Marc:Virginia.

00:30:18Guest:Yeah.

00:30:18Guest:Got horses.

00:30:19Guest:Plains, Virginia.

00:30:21Yeah.

00:30:21Guest:There's a couple of horses, but it's the most beautiful.

00:30:23Guest:It's so beautiful.

00:30:25Guest:It was farther than there.

00:30:26Guest:It's like 360 acres down there.

00:30:29Guest:But Bobby, you know, he's so... He called me at 6 in the morning and said, meat.

00:30:35Guest:You know, talk about meat for a half hour.

00:30:38Guest:Really?

00:30:38Guest:You know, it's just salt.

00:30:40Guest:It's salt.

00:30:43Guest:Bobby, 6 in the fucking morning.

00:30:45Guest:You know, he's the best.

00:30:47Guest:So the first picture was The Rain People.

00:30:50Marc:That's a great movie, man.

00:30:52Marc:Well, he was in Countdown, too.

00:30:55Marc:That's right.

00:30:55Marc:He played the astronaut that was pissed off at you.

00:30:57Guest:Yeah, and I did The Killer Elite, The Rain People.

00:31:01Guest:But Rain People, I never saw that before.

00:31:03Guest:That was great.

00:31:05Guest:That was Francis' second movie.

00:31:08Guest:He did one other movie before that called You a Big Boy Now.

00:31:11Marc:Yeah.

00:31:12Marc:What was he like then?

00:31:13Marc:Did you guys get along, you and Francis?

00:31:14Marc:With Bobby?

00:31:15Marc:No, with Francis.

00:31:17Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:31:18Guest:Yeah.

00:31:19Guest:Well, no, but I was like, I was an actor, actor.

00:31:21Guest:I got a lot of great notices in that picture, you know, for playing a guy without.

00:31:25Marc:Yeah.

00:31:26Marc:You're mentally handicapped and you got to play.

00:31:28Marc:But mentally handicapped.

00:31:30Guest:The idea was to be mentally handicapped.

00:31:33Guest:And I really stuck to this, but I wasn't, I'm not into that.

00:31:37Guest:You know, at night I want to go with the guys.

00:31:38Guest:I can't live that.

00:31:39Guest:They were these aesthetic fucking movie people.

00:31:42Guest:Yeah.

00:31:42Guest:18 of them, we traveled all across the country to talk that shit all night long.

00:31:46Guest:You go nuts.

00:31:47Guest:Yeah.

00:31:47Guest:And I was so depressed.

00:31:48Guest:I used to go in a holiday in and play with the fucking switch lights.

00:31:52Guest:Oh, he wants you to stay in character.

00:31:55Guest:Suicide.

00:31:56Guest:The whole time.

00:31:57Guest:He didn't.

00:31:58Guest:He didn't say nothing.

00:31:59Guest:I just couldn't stand to listen to that dialogue anymore.

00:32:02Marc:Oh, right.

00:32:02Guest:Right.

00:32:04Guest:Fuck.

00:32:04Guest:Get me some pussy.

00:32:06Marc:Yeah.

00:32:07Marc:But that was like some deep acting.

00:32:08Marc:Where'd you study acting?

00:32:10Guest:I was at the Neighborhood Playhouse in New York.

00:32:14Marc:With Sandy Meisner?

00:32:16Guest:Sandy was just left there.

00:32:18Guest:Sid Pollack, as a matter of fact, was the youngest teacher there.

00:32:21Guest:Oh, Sidney Pollack.

00:32:22Guest:Oh, he's so good, right?

00:32:25Guest:Yeah, and then I got a scholarship from my guru, who I stayed with for years.

00:32:28Guest:Who's that?

00:32:29Guest:Wynn Hanman.

00:32:30Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:32:31Guest:He just died last year.

00:32:32Guest:Oh, he's great.

00:32:33Guest:97.

00:32:34Guest:He was still teaching.

00:32:35Guest:Yeah, he was my everything.

00:32:37Guest:He gave me a scholarship.

00:32:39Guest:I went there, paid, and then he just wanted me to... He had so much confidence in me.

00:32:45Guest:And a beautiful thing, one day, if we're together, I'll show you.

00:32:49Guest:I wrote a letter to him.

00:32:50Guest:I was 21 and 22.

00:32:52Guest:I said, hey, Wynn, I got to go out to Hollywood.

00:32:55Guest:I had done...

00:32:56Guest:There was only three movies at the time in New York, things on film, rather.

00:33:00Guest:Naked City, you remember that?

00:33:02Guest:Yeah.

00:33:02Guest:You wouldn't remember.

00:33:03Guest:Was it a TV show?

00:33:04Guest:Yeah, it was a, yeah.

00:33:06Guest:And then Route 66.

00:33:08Guest:Yeah.

00:33:10Guest:And then, and then there was this thing called, it was a Play of the Week by, David Susskind used to put it on, and it was an actual play.

00:33:20Guest:It was an hour and a half, you know, crap.

00:33:23Guest:It was an hour and a half Play of the Week.

00:33:25Guest:And it was done live with three cameras.

00:33:27Guest:Right.

00:33:28Guest:I did one of those shows, Black Monday.

00:33:31Guest:Okay.

00:33:32Guest:With everybody, I mean, in it.

00:33:34Guest:I mean...

00:33:35Guest:Redford was in it.

00:33:37Guest:I mean, everybody had Hingle, all these actors, and it was a big deal.

00:33:41Guest:So I had done those three, and then that was it.

00:33:44Guest:I mean, there was nothing else to do except, you know, do an off-Broadway show for $45 a week.

00:33:48Guest:Yeah.

00:33:49Guest:And then I started getting these calls from Hollywood.

00:33:52Guest:I don't know.

00:33:52Guest:They want you to do this one.

00:33:54Guest:I flew out, did it.

00:33:56Guest:I did a fucking cow town, man.

00:33:57Guest:I can't.

00:33:58Guest:You got to drive a half hour to get a newspaper?

00:34:00Guest:Are you fucking nuts?

00:34:01Guest:And then...

00:34:04Guest:it would be seven o'clock on friday night i'd race to the airport get that midnight special get home you know and now meantime i'm married already i got married when i was 21. yeah i had nothing else to do that night i don't know yeah what happened how long did that marriage last first one long one yeah three three three years yes i got a second name but i'm that's it yeah

00:34:28Guest:Oh, boy.

00:34:30Guest:Anyway, I had five of them.

00:34:32Marc:So five marriages?

00:34:33Guest:Four.

00:34:34Marc:Four.

00:34:34Guest:My wife last one had five.

00:34:35Guest:You got to see, we went down to get a license.

00:34:38Guest:Yeah.

00:34:38Guest:And the lady's sitting there.

00:34:39Guest:She's seen the applications here.

00:34:41Guest:And all of a sudden, she goes, nine.

00:34:44Marc:Nine?

00:34:44Guest:Nine fucking marriages.

00:34:46Guest:Between the two.

00:34:47Guest:She was my fourth, I was my fifth.

00:34:48Marc:Jesus Christ.

00:34:49Marc:This is the last one?

00:34:51Marc:The final chapter, yes.

00:34:53Marc:So when you moved out here, this guy, so Wynn Handman, like I talked to John Leguizamo about that guy.

00:34:58Marc:Like he did, he was everybody's champion, that guy.

00:35:01Guest:Well, he had American Playhouse West.

00:35:05Guest:Well, American Playhouse East.

00:35:07Guest:And he had that for years and he taught there.

00:35:10Guest:And his big thing was to find young writers.

00:35:12Guest:You know, he used to find a way so they would come in there, would put on the productions of these writers all the time.

00:35:18Guest:That's the American Playhouse.

00:35:20Guest:And I went and I did a couple of things for him.

00:35:23Guest:And it was like $45 a week or $45.

00:35:27Guest:Right, right.

00:35:28Guest:But did he teach you?

00:35:29Guest:I was driving a meat truck, you know.

00:35:31Guest:Oh.

00:35:33Guest:You're in the family business?

00:35:34Guest:He said, give me a ride home.

00:35:35Guest:And I get him in the back of that bloody fucking thing and take him down to, you know, certain place.

00:35:41Guest:And when I went out there, I wrote this letter to him.

00:35:44Guest:Hey, buddy, we'll win, you know what?

00:35:47Guest:Yeah, I'm here and I'm just so lucky.

00:35:49Guest:I lived in the Fireside Manor, it was called.

00:35:52Guest:Yeah.

00:35:53Guest:I was married.

00:35:53Guest:I said, I'll go out there and see how it goes in a few weeks.

00:35:56Guest:Yeah.

00:35:56Guest:I got four starring roles.

00:36:01Guest:in the big series out here in five weeks.

00:36:04Guest:It was the doctor show about Kildare.

00:36:07Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:07Guest:Alfred Hitchcock Presents.

00:36:09Guest:Right, right, yeah.

00:36:10Guest:Craft Suspense Theater.

00:36:11Guest:So I'm going, Jesus Christ, you know.

00:36:14Guest:But there's a little cocky fucker I was, you know.

00:36:17Guest:You're like, this is it.

00:36:18Guest:No, yeah, but it was like great.

00:36:20Guest:And the poor guy I came out with couldn't get the job.

00:36:22Guest:I felt bad.

00:36:23Guest:Yeah, I got real lucky, you know, like real lucky.

00:36:25Guest:And then I called for her.

00:36:29Guest:She came out and that was it.

00:36:30Guest:We stayed.

00:36:32Guest:But I remember how I used to think that I got the jobs mostly because

00:36:39Guest:Because I said no a lot.

00:36:42Guest:Really?

00:36:42Guest:That's probably true.

00:36:44Guest:Who's this fucking asshole?

00:36:45Guest:Say no to me.

00:36:46Guest:We'll show him.

00:36:48Guest:You see my Emmys up there?

00:36:49Guest:You see that?

00:36:50Guest:Yeah.

00:36:51Guest:Stick them up your ass.

00:36:52Guest:Fuck you.

00:36:52Guest:I didn't say that, but I never went that far.

00:36:54Guest:But I really had a thing of integrity.

00:36:56Guest:I really... I mean, the thing...

00:36:58Guest:With Wynn, Wynn used to say, you have a chance to do this better than anybody's ever done it.

00:37:02Guest:Wow.

00:37:03Guest:I said, okay.

00:37:04Guest:You know when we did sort of Mooney's Kid Don't Cry or some of these things?

00:37:09Guest:And he stayed with me until this past year he died in 97.

00:37:13Guest:He was still teaching.

00:37:14Marc:Yeah.

00:37:15Marc:Yeah, I just watched a documentary on him.

00:37:17Marc:He's a very impressive guy.

00:37:19Marc:But you mostly learned with the method of the Meisner technique?

00:37:24Marc:Is that where it started?

00:37:25Yeah.

00:37:25Guest:Well, Meisner, they're all pretty close.

00:37:28Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:37:29Marc:But you just took to it?

00:37:31Guest:I don't remember what taken to it was, but I mean, I did it.

00:37:34Guest:But to me, I had the pleasure.

00:37:37Guest:I really did.

00:37:38Guest:I taught a couple of classes.

00:37:39Guest:Yeah.

00:37:40Guest:But one I taught last year and a year or so before.

00:37:44Guest:They called it a master class.

00:37:46Guest:That was a master thing.

00:37:48Guest:Yeah.

00:37:49Guest:I love being a master.

00:37:50Guest:That's the way it's... Finally, you're a master.

00:37:52Guest:Hey, master, don't call me Jimmy.

00:37:53Guest:Call me master.

00:37:57Guest:And bring a bone.

00:37:58Guest:Yeah.

00:37:58Guest:But...

00:37:59Guest:I have very definite ideas about it.

00:38:02Guest:You know, it's like, look, I'm a big believer in instinct.

00:38:06Guest:I mean, and I proclaim that, proclaim, I became God too now.

00:38:13Guest:No, but I say that,

00:38:16Guest:If you get a script, there's 10 actors, right?

00:38:19Guest:20 actors, 30 actors they send the script to.

00:38:21Guest:And the first time when they look at you and they send you the script and it says, look at the part of John, right?

00:38:28Guest:Right.

00:38:28Guest:I don't care who you are, but you're reading this thing.

00:38:30Guest:You don't want to get involved in the stories.

00:38:32Guest:You're good.

00:38:33Guest:So hopefully, I mean, but every time subconsciously when it says John, you slow down a little bit.

00:38:39Guest:I don't care.

00:38:39Guest:You're full of shit if you don't.

00:38:40Guest:You do.

00:38:41Guest:Right.

00:38:42Guest:It's you.

00:38:42Guest:Oh, that's me, John.

00:38:44Guest:Yeah.

00:38:44Guest:So...

00:38:45Guest:Something happens the minute you see John, right?

00:38:48Guest:Something inside of you internally happens.

00:38:50Guest:Right.

00:38:51Guest:That's as close as you're going to come to being that person.

00:38:56Guest:Now, it's going to be a lot further because you're going to understand what your relationship to everybody is, what they feel about you, which will get in the way.

00:39:02Guest:It's more of a makeup.

00:39:04Guest:Right.

00:39:04Guest:Yeah.

00:39:05Guest:But internally, that's the first as close as you're going to come.

00:39:09Guest:You're going to come a lot closer to that character.

00:39:12Yeah.

00:39:12Guest:Yeah.

00:39:13Guest:Because that's you.

00:39:14Guest:That's your instinct.

00:39:16Guest:Look, every story's been fucking told.

00:39:18Guest:Every one of them.

00:39:19Guest:Yeah.

00:39:19Guest:I mean, the Romans did it.

00:39:21Guest:The Greeks did it.

00:39:22Guest:You know, Shakespeare fucking did it.

00:39:24Guest:You know, they all did it.

00:39:25Guest:The good guy wins.

00:39:26Guest:The bad guy loses.

00:39:27Guest:The good guy gets the horse.

00:39:28Guest:He doesn't get the horse.

00:39:29Guest:He gets the girl.

00:39:30Guest:I mean...

00:39:31Guest:yeah do you know what i mean what do you think keeps people's ass in the seat anymore they know your journey pretty much every everything you make yeah they know where you're going to end up pretty much right is what i call unpredictability so you're more interested in the character how he gets through this journey you don't do this consciously but when he when he or she comes on yeah

00:39:56Guest:Oh, I've had an experience like that.

00:39:58Guest:Whatever radiates across the aisle, it's unpredictable.

00:40:03Guest:Brando made you sit there because it wasn't where it was going.

00:40:06Guest:It's where he's at right now.

00:40:08Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:09Guest:Right.

00:40:10Guest:Totally unpredictable.

00:40:11Guest:Right, right.

00:40:12Guest:That's what keeps your ass in the seat.

00:40:14Guest:Right.

00:40:14Guest:You can't say, I'm going to be unpredictable.

00:40:16Guest:It's you.

00:40:17Guest:You by yourself is going to be different than that guy and that guy.

00:40:20Guest:That's what made you different than the other 15 guys that are going for the part.

00:40:24Guest:And the one that's close, the one they like, that's the one they're going to pick.

00:40:29Guest:But if 15 guys come in and read the same shit, you know, like, I used to tell them it was like Tommy Udo.

00:40:34Guest:You know when a guy pushes his grandmother off the second story down the stairs?

00:40:39Guest:She's a 90-year-old woman.

00:40:40Guest:He pushes her down the stairs.

00:40:42Guest:He says, you old bitch, you got to die.

00:40:43Guest:He pushes her down.

00:40:45Guest:That's pretty fucking hard.

00:40:46Guest:So if I were to do that, and this is the way I do it sometimes, and I suggest to myself...

00:40:53Guest:Oh, this poor old lady, you know.

00:40:55Guest:She brought me up from the time I was like five.

00:40:58Guest:She worked three jobs.

00:40:59Guest:She had to work four when I got older.

00:41:01Guest:She fed me.

00:41:02Guest:She bought me.

00:41:03Guest:She's the greatest old lady I've ever met.

00:41:05Guest:I love her to death.

00:41:06Guest:If it wasn't for her, I don't know where I'd be.

00:41:10Guest:And I go and I say my lines, okay?

00:41:14Guest:So what happens?

00:41:15Guest:I go, I look at her a minute too long before I say, you know, the guy's crazy.

00:41:22Guest:Yeah.

00:41:23Guest:But I look at her and I go, what am I going to do?

00:41:26Guest:You know, I'm saying, and I say, what she did for me.

00:41:31Guest:And I go through all that, you know, before I come on and I go, I'm just doing it verbally.

00:41:39Guest:You poor old bitch.

00:41:40Guest:Yeah.

00:41:41Guest:All right.

00:41:43Guest:She looks at me.

00:41:46Guest:I'm going to kill you.

00:41:50Guest:What?

00:41:52Guest:Oh, you don't understand.

00:41:53Guest:I just.

00:41:55Guest:Whatever the lines, I have to read those lines.

00:41:57Guest:Yeah.

00:41:58Guest:So, you know, God bless you.

00:42:01Guest:Whatever.

00:42:02Guest:God bless you.

00:42:04Guest:How's this?

00:42:04Guest:Goodbye.

00:42:06Guest:Fuck, what was that?

00:42:09Guest:What was that?

00:42:10Guest:You don't remember that for a long time.

00:42:11Guest:That's nuts.

00:42:12Guest:That's scarier than your father.

00:42:15Marc:What was that from?

00:42:16Guest:Whatever the line.

00:42:16Guest:It wasn't anything fun but my mind.

00:42:18Guest:I remember one scene.

00:42:19Guest:Oh, right.

00:42:20Guest:It was just to tell you that it's all about behavior.

00:42:22Guest:It is not about fucking words.

00:42:24Guest:Right.

00:42:25Guest:Words don't mean anything until you speak them.

00:42:28Guest:And the behavior that you have inside.

00:42:31Guest:So when I prepared it, she just came out and said, how am I going to say this to this poor old girl?

00:42:34Guest:Right.

00:42:34Guest:The point is, fuck you.

00:42:36Guest:And she's, I'm going to push you down the stairs as a result.

00:42:39Guest:Yeah.

00:42:40Guest:You can't do it nicely.

00:42:41Guest:But it came out and said, this guy has got a mental problem.

00:42:44Guest:He's fucked up.

00:42:45Guest:right right and so it's more and more interesting like oh hi yo bitch so you got approach it from yourself from the inside that's kind of a a broad a broad one right you know what i mean sure expansive idea yeah but i know but that was a good acting lesson but i mean it comes from but you kind of lock in you make these fucking choices and then you get them out of your head and then you get in the scene you lock into what your choices are

00:43:11Marc:Right.

00:43:12Marc:Yeah.

00:43:13Marc:But you don't bring any of the prep.

00:43:14Marc:It doesn't matter.

00:43:16Guest:No, the prep, if it's done properly, that's the end.

00:43:19Guest:You see, I know what it sounds to.

00:43:22Guest:I don't take astral flights and do all of that shit.

00:43:24Guest:Right.

00:43:25Guest:Sure.

00:43:25Guest:I don't believe in that.

00:43:27Guest:But as an actor or a person, it's like a lot of times you have a thing with your girl or whatever.

00:43:32Guest:You do have this whole buildup inside you before you go there.

00:43:35Guest:What am I going to say?

00:43:35Guest:You've had those things with your parents.

00:43:38Guest:You know, I'm in trouble.

00:43:39Marc:Yeah.

00:43:40Marc:You know what I'm saying?

00:43:41Marc:Sure.

00:43:41Marc:And it's in there.

00:43:41Guest:You forget that you did that prep.

00:43:43Guest:Yeah.

00:43:44Guest:But you still, when you go in to say, hey, mom, I got to tell you something.

00:43:47Guest:All of that is coming out now.

00:43:50Guest:Right.

00:43:51Guest:And the way you say things.

00:43:53Right.

00:43:53Guest:She's not going to say, why are you acting crazy?

00:43:55Guest:You're not acting crazy.

00:43:56Marc:But like when you, okay, so like with The Godfather, you know, you guys, like there's all this talk about like, you know, you were supposed to, you were going to play Michael and then Michael and then Pachini.

00:44:05Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:07Guest:That was another great song.

00:44:09Guest:See, every time I say that now, cameras fall over, everything happens.

00:44:13Guest:But what was that about?

00:44:15Guest:Who made those choices?

00:44:17Guest:I'll tell you that.

00:44:18Guest:Well, everything was choices were Francis, nobody else's.

00:44:21Guest:Yeah.

00:44:22Guest:But at first, they try to make them.

00:44:24Guest:Listen, I had done the rain people.

00:44:26Guest:yeah i was friendly with him he stayed at my house here you know he so when he when he bob evans and them bob evans wanted guster garbage or something you know you remember him from do you remember guster garbage so the director to the greek director yeah yeah yeah remember yeah yeah right right yeah

00:44:45Guest:And I used to play.

00:44:47Guest:I used to rob him in tennis.

00:44:48Guest:It was ridiculous.

00:44:49Guest:Bobby was just this crazy ego.

00:44:51Guest:Yeah.

00:44:51Guest:We used to have me and a kid named Gary Chase and was an A player.

00:44:54Guest:We'd go there and he would get Jimmy Connors.

00:44:56Guest:He would get Pancho Gonzalez.

00:44:57Guest:He would get everybody, anybody he wanted as his partner.

00:45:01Guest:I swear to God, this is true.

00:45:03Guest:This Bob Evans?

00:45:03Guest:And he played for like four.

00:45:04Guest:Yeah.

00:45:05Guest:Yeah.

00:45:05Guest:He played for $400 a corner and $800 a corner.

00:45:08Guest:No, those guys would all beat me 0-0 with the wrong hand.

00:45:11Guest:Right.

00:45:12Guest:Right.

00:45:12Guest:But they didn't have to hit every other shot.

00:45:14Guest:He never got that.

00:45:15Guest:I was a fairly decent A player.

00:45:18Guest:My partner was a good A player.

00:45:19Guest:Yeah.

00:45:20Guest:You know, not at the level.

00:45:22Guest:He didn't get the notion.

00:45:24Guest:He didn't get the idea that you've got to hit every other fucking ball, you moron.

00:45:28Guest:Yeah.

00:45:28Guest:You've got to serve every ball.

00:45:31Guest:You ain't winning that game.

00:45:32Guest:Yeah.

00:45:33Guest:And you ain't winning none of my serves on your side.

00:45:35Guest:I've got to get one off him.

00:45:37Guest:Or you have to get four off of me.

00:45:40Guest:I like my chances.

00:45:41Guest:So we'd just rob them.

00:45:44Guest:I mean, it was, Bobby, I can't do this anymore.

00:45:46Guest:Don't you understand?

00:45:47Guest:Connors would come.

00:45:48Guest:I mean, you name the guys you had there.

00:45:50Guest:The pros.

00:45:51Guest:I can't.

00:45:51Guest:I just, this is ridiculous.

00:45:53Guest:You can't do this.

00:45:53Guest:I don't want your money.

00:45:55Guest:And I said, at the time, I was a little cocky.

00:46:00Guest:I said, you know, the only guy that I know that should do this, I'm not saying that I'm responsible for this, a little bit, is Francis Coppola.

00:46:10Guest:I said, because Francis, his grandmother lived right around the corner from me in Sunnyside.

00:46:16Guest:Francis is not a Brooklyn Italian.

00:46:18Guest:He's a Mediterranean Italian.

00:46:20Guest:What do you mean?

00:46:21Guest:Art, music.

00:46:22Guest:Those kids were never out of the cutting room.

00:46:24Guest:Father was lead floutist for Toscanini, right?

00:46:26Marc:Yeah.

00:46:27Guest:That's all it was.

00:46:29Marc:Right?

00:46:30Marc:His father was a composer, right?

00:46:33Guest:Composer and lead floutist for Toscanini's orchestra.

00:46:37Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:46:37Guest:Floutist.

00:46:38Guest:Yeah.

00:46:38Guest:I mean, you know.

00:46:39Guest:Yeah.

00:46:40Guest:And that's all he knew.

00:46:41Guest:You know, wine and this.

00:46:43Guest:Yeah.

00:46:44Yeah.

00:46:45Guest:And I made that mention, but I finally met with Francis and maybe a little responsible, but I truly believe that.

00:46:52Guest:And I think that was the success of the movie.

00:46:54Guest:Yeah.

00:46:54Guest:You know, everybody condone everything for the sake of family.

00:46:57Guest:Right.

00:46:57Guest:He killed 85 guys.

00:46:58Guest:I don't care.

00:46:59Guest:Your sister.

00:46:59Guest:Yeah.

00:47:00Guest:You know.

00:47:00Guest:Right.

00:47:01Guest:Yeah.

00:47:02Guest:So.

00:47:03Guest:He got Francis.

00:47:05Guest:And Francis got.

00:47:08Guest:You know, he got Bobby, thank God.

00:47:10Guest:Brando, thank God, double time.

00:47:12Guest:Yeah.

00:47:13Guest:And Al Pacino, which we didn't know at the time.

00:47:16Guest:Yeah.

00:47:18Guest:Okay.

00:47:18Guest:So he's Jimmy.

00:47:21Guest:He says, will you come up to San Francisco?

00:47:23Guest:So we went up to San Francisco and Eleanor, his wife, put a bowl on her head and cut her bowl and bought us these four corned beef sandwiches for lunch.

00:47:33Guest:And we improvised.

00:47:34Guest:They have that film somewhere.

00:47:36Guest:Where we read some of the dialogue.

00:47:38Marc:You and Al and Bobby.

00:47:40Guest:Bobby, yeah, and Brando sometimes.

00:47:42Guest:But mostly me, Al and Bobby.

00:47:44Guest:Yeah.

00:47:45Guest:And, I mean, I never got straight.

00:47:47Guest:I'd bust everybody's balls from the minute I got in there.

00:47:50Guest:Yeah.

00:47:50Guest:Because, and Bobby, don't laugh at this shit.

00:47:54Guest:I didn't write this crap.

00:47:55Guest:What the fuck?

00:47:56Guest:You know, and it's it.

00:47:58Guest:They show it.

00:47:58Guest:Yeah.

00:47:59Guest:So, yeah.

00:48:01Guest:The point is that that was his cast for the price of four Corby sandwiches.

00:48:05Guest:OK, right.

00:48:07Guest:So now I go back home and he's going back to New York to scout.

00:48:10Guest:You're going to you're going to do New York City in 1945.

00:48:14Guest:That's a small little task.

00:48:16Guest:Yeah.

00:48:16Guest:So he's going back there and this and that.

00:48:18Guest:And I get a call one night about 1130.

00:48:21Guest:So it had to be 230 in the morning with him.

00:48:24Guest:Jimmy, what?

00:48:26Guest:I want you to come in.

00:48:28Guest:What's the matter, friend?

00:48:30Guest:He said, they want you to test.

00:48:32Guest:They want me to test?

00:48:35Guest:Test what?

00:48:36Guest:You got a Porsche?

00:48:36Guest:You want me to drive around the block?

00:48:38Guest:He said, no, come on.

00:48:40Guest:I'm not kidding you.

00:48:41Guest:Just come in.

00:48:42Guest:Do me a favor.

00:48:42Guest:Fucking come in.

00:48:44Guest:So, okay.

00:48:45Guest:So I come in.

00:48:47Guest:Now, they had, I don't want to use his name, but the other guy who was going to play

00:48:53Guest:Sonny, they wanted me to play.

00:48:55Guest:They wanted me to play Michael.

00:48:56Guest:Right.

00:48:57Guest:Bobby was Bobby.

00:48:57Guest:So I go, I don't understand.

00:49:00Guest:Now, here's the thing.

00:49:01Guest:I knew Francis so well that I knew he wanted Michael physically to look to look the Sicilian dark.

00:49:10Guest:Yeah.

00:49:10Guest:You know, more pensive and that guy.

00:49:13Guest:And he wanted Sonny to be the Americanized version of him.

00:49:17Guest:Right.

00:49:18Guest:He's a younger brother.

00:49:19Right.

00:49:19Guest:And Al at that time, I love Al.

00:49:21Guest:He's a good friend of mine.

00:49:23Guest:And he's great.

00:49:24Marc:Yeah.

00:49:25Guest:At that time, he was really self-destructive.

00:49:27Marc:Pacino was.

00:49:28Guest:Because it was hard for him to get to Francis to...

00:49:31Guest:You know, he buried up in a concept that he had.

00:49:35Guest:Yeah.

00:49:36Guest:You know, he was an actor's actor, you know, but it was worse every fucking time he came in.

00:49:41Guest:So we'd have these tests.

00:49:44Guest:I tested for everything.

00:49:45Guest:Mario Puzo, you read the book.

00:49:46Guest:Yeah.

00:49:47Guest:The Making of the Godfather.

00:49:48Guest:Yeah.

00:49:49Guest:If Khan had tits, he'd have played K. Yeah.

00:49:54Guest:Yeah.

00:49:55Guest:I came in, I was half-hearted about it.

00:49:57Guest:You know, I just, because I knew Francis was killing him.

00:50:00Guest:Yeah.

00:50:01Guest:I walked in the studio on 57th Street.

00:50:04Guest:There were 900 actors sitting around this fucking on the floor with their backs against the wall in the studio, eating, drinking coffee.

00:50:15Guest:All of them were going to test.

00:50:17Guest:They had English action, Scotch action.

00:50:19Guest:They were from bumfuck Idaho.

00:50:21Guest:I don't know where they were from.

00:50:23Guest:Everybody you could name was there.

00:50:25Guest:Everybody.

00:50:25Marc:And they were all testing for what?

00:50:27Guest:Michael.

00:50:28Guest:Oh, my God.

00:50:29Guest:Yeah.

00:50:29Guest:I go in and test for Michael.

00:50:31Guest:I'm fucking, you know.

00:50:34Guest:It's okay.

00:50:35Guest:It's nothing.

00:50:35Guest:But I didn't.

00:50:36Guest:My heart was with Francis.

00:50:38Guest:I was getting mad at for Francis.

00:50:39Guest:Yeah.

00:50:40Guest:So I came home that day from the studio, feeling Francis' pain in there.

00:50:45Guest:And I did my test.

00:50:47Guest:I'm going inside.

00:50:49Guest:And the next morning I get up and I start throwing all this shit in the bag.

00:50:52Guest:I'm getting out of there.

00:50:54Guest:And they come to my door and say, Tim, where are you going?

00:50:56Guest:They want you to come and test again.

00:50:58Guest:I said, get your foot outside of my door.

00:51:00Guest:I'll break your fucking foot off.

00:51:02Guest:Get out of here.

00:51:03Guest:Go fuck yourself.

00:51:04Guest:And I'm going to come home and throw that little prick out of the 30-story window.

00:51:07Guest:Get the fuck away from me.

00:51:09Guest:Just get the fuck out of here, okay?

00:51:13Guest:And I'm so in a hurry.

00:51:15Guest:I don't even go to a plane.

00:51:15Guest:I go right to the terminal.

00:51:17Guest:I get on a train.

00:51:18Guest:They go to Chicago.

00:51:19Guest:Just so I can get away from them.

00:51:21Guest:Go to the train.

00:51:22Guest:About my third day there, that night I got to go listen.

00:51:25Guest:Okay, Jimmy, please come back.

00:51:26Guest:You sonny, you sonny, you sonny.

00:51:28Guest:So he kept pushing out.

00:51:29Guest:And each time, Al was worse than he was the time before.

00:51:32Guest:Why?

00:51:33Guest:Because he was overthinking it or what?

00:51:35Guest:No, because, I mean, the guy's disgusted.

00:51:37Guest:He's given his best.

00:51:39Guest:Francis believed him, which is all that really mattered to me.

00:51:41Marc:As Michael.

00:51:42Guest:I mean, it was the director's picture once I get in there.

00:51:44Guest:Yeah.

00:51:45Guest:Once they make up a mind that this is direct, then leave him alone and let him direct.

00:51:48Guest:Right.

00:51:49Guest:And thank God, you know, it was Michael.

00:51:52Guest:But even during the making of it,

00:51:54Guest:but but i could see michael wonder he he wanted to be so far removed from it he was this nebbish kind of guy within the army oh yeah things that the collions wouldn't do right and meanwhile i'm acting up right you know yeah and but then it was some place for him to grow from you know yeah to understand it anyway so it all worked out i think pretty well

00:52:18Marc:But that's interesting.

00:52:19Marc:That's interesting.

00:52:20Marc:At the beginning, you thought he was underplaying it.

00:52:23Marc:And then he left himself room to grow into the monster.

00:52:26Guest:He was underplaying.

00:52:27Guest:He was being this guy.

00:52:27Guest:He's a soldier.

00:52:28Guest:He's taking orders.

00:52:30Guest:Stupid commands.

00:52:31Guest:Go kill this guy.

00:52:33Guest:Okay, do 25 push-ups.

00:52:34Guest:No problem.

00:52:35Guest:You know what I mean?

00:52:36Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:52:37Guest:So he was quiet and thinking.

00:52:39Marc:It's funny, you really kind of think deeply about your intuitions are not just for yourself, but for the whole sort of structure of the movie when you enter this show.

00:52:48Guest:Oh, for sure.

00:52:49Guest:It has to fit.

00:52:50Marc:Yeah.

00:52:50Guest:You have to relate it to.

00:52:52Guest:I mean, that's why I said you get to know who they are, how much they like...

00:52:55Guest:You know, you get to really know you have a little difference.

00:52:57Guest:Sometimes I'm not aware of it, but I have a different way of dressing the father as opposed to the mother of my girlfriend or the bad guy's left hand guy.

00:53:06Guest:The guy you just if you know, take your time just seeing what I know, what he thinks about me, what I think about him.

00:53:12Marc:Right.

00:53:12Guest:Everything is good.

00:53:13Guest:I can say anything I want.

00:53:14Marc:Right, because, like, you know, it's amazing.

00:53:16Marc:After watching a lot of the movies, you got incredible range, you know?

00:53:21Marc:I mean, it's like, you know, people thinking he was sunny or whatever, but you got the full spectrum of shit you can do.

00:53:27Guest:That was Francis.

00:53:27Guest:Francis let me go.

00:53:28Guest:In other words... Yeah.

00:53:30Guest:The very first scene we saw in the Jenko Olive Oil Company... Yeah.

00:53:35Guest:I didn't know.

00:53:36Guest:It was, like, the first day I shot.

00:53:38Guest:And it was the same way the Sollozzo comes in.

00:53:39Guest:I just wasn't there.

00:53:42Guest:I was, like, I didn't have my foot in anything, you know?

00:53:46Guest:Like...

00:53:47Guest:Oh, really?

00:53:47Guest:Yeah.

00:53:48Guest:Yeah, I was just... But I was doing it, and Francis looking at me didn't say nothing.

00:53:53Guest:And Brando was great.

00:53:56Guest:Yeah.

00:53:57Guest:Anyway, I came home from that, and I felt shitty.

00:54:00Guest:I didn't... And we were going out somewhere, and I was shaving that night.

00:54:04Marc:Yeah.

00:54:05Guest:And Rickles used to be a friend of mine.

00:54:06Guest:You know, he was a young kid.

00:54:07Guest:I used to hang around with them.

00:54:08Marc:Who, with Don?

00:54:09Guest:And Don Adams and Don Rickles.

00:54:11Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:54:12Guest:Rickles is out of his mind.

00:54:14Guest:You know, just fucking funny.

00:54:16Guest:Yeah.

00:54:16Guest:Anyway, I come in and I was shaving.

00:54:18Guest:All of a sudden, I don't know why I thought of Rickles.

00:54:22Guest:This is a true story.

00:54:23Guest:I'm shaving.

00:54:25Guest:Poor.

00:54:28Guest:Jesus, you're fat, you know?

00:54:29Guest:Yeah.

00:54:30Guest:Yeah, you must be.

00:54:33Guest:You're the only guy when you sit on the seat, you must say, get up, get up when you sit on the toilet seat, you know?

00:54:38Guest:You must have flat kids, you son of a bitch.

00:54:40Guest:I mean, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:54:42Guest:Yeah.

00:54:42Guest:And I just busted horn.

00:54:44Guest:Yeah.

00:54:45Guest:I went in the next day.

00:54:46Guest:I'm telling you, I busted balls for 16 weeks.

00:54:50Guest:Yeah.

00:54:51Yeah.

00:54:51Guest:Every day.

00:54:52Guest:Francis, why don't you get your suit changed?

00:54:53Guest:How much money do you need?

00:54:55Guest:$30 to get that brush?

00:54:55Guest:You wear it every fucking day.

00:54:57Guest:I mean.

00:54:58Guest:Yeah.

00:54:59Guest:Busted balls.

00:55:00Guest:Right.

00:55:01Guest:And everybody hysterical.

00:55:02Guest:Right.

00:55:03Guest:Right.

00:55:04Guest:And Francis never said a fucking word.

00:55:06Guest:Because I had a life.

00:55:07Guest:Forget it.

00:55:08Guest:I could have done Hamlet like that.

00:55:10Guest:All those things, the beat-a-bop, the boom, and that's all improvised.

00:55:13Guest:And he busted Francis.

00:55:15Guest:None of that's written.

00:55:16Guest:I said, you know, in my neighborhood...

00:55:19Guest:The Italians, I knew that they maybe had two suits, one suit.

00:55:23Guest:They had 12 pair of shoes.

00:55:24Guest:I don't know what it was.

00:55:25Guest:They love shoes.

00:55:27Guest:Yeah.

00:55:28Guest:So I said to the wardrobe lady, I said, do I have a pair of those black and white tickers, you know?

00:55:32Guest:Right.

00:55:33Guest:Or brown and white, but black and white.

00:55:35Guest:No, it's not in the script.

00:55:36Guest:It's not in the script.

00:55:37Guest:Oh, can I get them?

00:55:38Guest:you know we were we had a tight script it was like two and a half million dollars something ridiculous i was like wait a fucker right i went i bought for ten dollars in the bronx in a used store yeah those black and white now you remember the black and white shoes yeah i bought them for ten dollars yeah yeah same with when i come and see i didn't know when i was gonna use it or ever use it i took my car we had these things we called them attitude of justice

00:56:02Guest:Yeah.

00:56:03Guest:You know, do you remember this industrial type brooms?

00:56:06Guest:We cut them off here.

00:56:07Guest:It was a little like one of those little mini bats you buy at the ballgame.

00:56:10Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:56:12Guest:Put them under our seat.

00:56:13Guest:I know.

00:56:14Guest:An attitude adjust in case I needed it.

00:56:17Guest:I said, what are you doing with that?

00:56:18Guest:I don't know.

00:56:19Guest:Just leave it.

00:56:19Guest:Is it bothering you?

00:56:20Guest:Leave it the fuck there.

00:56:21Guest:And that was weeks before we did the fight.

00:56:25Guest:When I got the fight, I stopped outside and I grabbed that fucking thing and I ran out of the car and I said, come here, come here, come here.

00:56:31Guest:And I threw this fucking thing at him.

00:56:34Guest:He was running behind the cars on the other side of the street.

00:56:36Guest:I threw it at him.

00:56:37Guest:Francis loved it, right?

00:56:39Yeah.

00:56:39Marc:He was sitting on the stoop when he beat the fuck out of that guy.

00:56:42Guest:Yeah, and he hit me and he started to run.

00:56:44Guest:And I pulled the thing out underneath the car.

00:56:46Guest:Yeah.

00:56:46Guest:And I shoot him.

00:56:47Guest:He says, but Jimmy, you look like you don't want to hit him.

00:56:50Guest:What are you, fucking nuts, Francis?

00:56:52Guest:This thing's fucking way some power to have two power.

00:56:55Guest:Yeah.

00:56:55Guest:Like an enemy's behind the car, he's running.

00:56:58Guest:Hit him right off the coconut.

00:56:59Guest:But luckily, it was on an upswing.

00:57:02Guest:It was on an upswing, you know?

00:57:04Marc:So it didn't... Really knock him?

00:57:07Guest:Hit him right in the fucking head.

00:57:08Guest:So, yeah.

00:57:10Guest:But he needed it.

00:57:12Guest:Anyway, the other thing is... The other thing...

00:57:17Guest:The other thing was like... What was that guy's name?

00:57:21Guest:Johnny Russo.

00:57:22Guest:He wrote a book out now where he claims he did this.

00:57:24Guest:Everybody he talks about is dead.

00:57:26Guest:He fucked my one row.

00:57:27Guest:He did this.

00:57:28Guest:He did... Yeah, yeah, right.

00:57:30Guest:How could you say that, Johnny?

00:57:31Yeah.

00:57:32Guest:You know that guy.

00:57:34Guest:He's okay.

00:57:35Guest:He's a real go-getter, you know.

00:57:37Guest:Yeah.

00:57:39Guest:Anyway.

00:57:40Marc:So the key to Sonny came through Don Rickles.

00:57:43Guest:Yeah, pretty much.

00:57:45Guest:It was like...

00:57:49Guest:You know, those little things in my neighborhood.

00:57:50Guest:I remember.

00:57:52Guest:And the first time I ever just took off on my own, during the wedding, they said, go outside.

00:57:57Guest:These guys are taking the numbers now, right?

00:57:59Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, with the cameras.

00:58:00Guest:I mean, none of that was in there.

00:58:02Guest:I go, what do you want to do?

00:58:04Guest:It's a wedding, blah, blah, blah.

00:58:06Marc:Yeah.

00:58:07Marc:That's right.

00:58:07Marc:You threw the camera down, you throw the money at them.

00:58:09Guest:No way.

00:58:10Guest:Yeah, there you go.

00:58:11Guest:See, that's the thing.

00:58:11Guest:You saw it.

00:58:12Guest:You remember it.

00:58:13Marc:Yeah.

00:58:13Guest:I had no intention of doing anything but walking in.

00:58:17Guest:But when I walked in with Clemenzo, who was a great character,

00:58:20Guest:That guy's great.

00:58:21Guest:The guy comes out and he snaps my picture.

00:58:24Guest:That's not it.

00:58:24Guest:And I see this freshman and I just lost it.

00:58:27Guest:Yeah.

00:58:28Guest:I took his fucking camera.

00:58:29Guest:Right.

00:58:30Guest:And it was one of these box cameras.

00:58:31Guest:Did you know?

00:58:32Guest:Pumped upon the went lost.

00:58:33Guest:It cost a lot of money.

00:58:36Guest:Smash.

00:58:37Guest:I smashed it on the floor.

00:58:39Guest:And in my neighborhood, if it got broke, as long as he paid for it, it was even.

00:58:43Guest:Right.

00:58:44Guest:And I looked at it and I swore 20.

00:58:46Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:58:47Guest:I walked in.

00:58:48Guest:Francis just loved that.

00:58:50Guest:It just happened right then and there.

00:58:52Guest:It's like I say, you've got to be open, you know.

00:58:55Guest:Right.

00:58:56Guest:So I had a lot of fun with him and Francis was great with me.

00:59:00Guest:Let me do.

00:59:01Guest:I mean, there's so many things he allowed me to do.

00:59:05Guest:But and he was really kind enough, you know.

00:59:08Guest:to let me do it.

00:59:09Marc:Are you still friends?

00:59:11Guest:Oh yeah, sure.

00:59:13Guest:I did four more pictures, three, four more pictures with him.

00:59:16Guest:I want to do one more.

00:59:18Guest:But now someone's doing a picture about him.

00:59:21Marc:But then all these other great fucking movies, man.

00:59:23Marc:I didn't even know Slither was a thing.

00:59:24Marc:And I like that movie.

00:59:26Guest:I mean, I forgot until you mentioned it right now.

00:59:29Marc:Peter Boyle, that was great.

00:59:30Marc:And then Cinderella Liberty was great.

00:59:31Marc:The Gambler.

00:59:32Marc:What was that director's name?

00:59:34Marc:Carol Rice?

00:59:35Marc:Is that what you said?

00:59:36Guest:Carol Rice.

00:59:36Guest:By the way, he was great.

00:59:38Marc:That's a great movie.

00:59:39Marc:That Toback's a nut, right?

00:59:42Marc:Complete nut bullshit.

00:59:43Marc:Yeah, he's full of shit.

00:59:45Yeah.

00:59:45Guest:Yeah.

00:59:47Guest:I'm going to tell you, I'm telling you, Toback.

00:59:50Guest:But Cal Rice, you know, he was the producer of Saturday Night and Sunday Morning.

00:59:53Guest:A great picture.

00:59:55Guest:Yeah.

00:59:56Guest:Yeah.

00:59:56Guest:Just the greatest guy.

00:59:58Guest:And you know how his English were, you know, and he like I'm in every shot of that movie.

01:00:02Guest:Right.

01:00:02Guest:And one day we're in Lexington Avenue.

01:00:05Guest:There's that one apartment building here.

01:00:06Guest:They got the steps that go all the way up, you know, in the front door to the front door.

01:00:10Guest:And I was in the next room, and I had a smoke in the green room.

01:00:13Guest:It was in the next door.

01:00:15Guest:They needed me for a shot, so the AD comes out and says, Hey, Jimmy, we need you for a shot.

01:00:18Guest:Come on out.

01:00:19Guest:Carol needs you right now.

01:00:21Guest:I'm going down the stairs, and they have them wires going down the stairs.

01:00:24Guest:I step on one of them cables, you know?

01:00:27Guest:Boom, I go down from the middle, all the way down.

01:00:29Guest:My ankle gets as big as a fucking softball, this big.

01:00:32Guest:Right when I hit the ground.

01:00:34Guest:Yeah.

01:00:34Guest:Tore it up.

01:00:35Guest:They pick me up.

01:00:36Guest:And he runs up to Carol Rice, and he goes,

01:00:39Guest:I think Jimmy just broke his ankle and Carol went, oh, fuss, fuss, fuss, fuss, fuss.

01:00:46Guest:Oh, fuss, fuss, fuss, fuss.

01:00:49Marc:Did you break it?

01:00:50Marc:No, it just rained it pretty bad.

01:00:52Marc:I watched Freebie and the Bean, which I saw when I was a kid.

01:00:54Marc:What about Steve?

01:00:55Marc:Steve is the best movie of all.

01:00:57Guest:I got that.

01:00:57Guest:Yeah.

01:00:58Guest:You love that one, huh?

01:00:59Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:01:00Guest:I mean, acting.

01:01:01Guest:Listen.

01:01:02Guest:Here's what I mean about making certain choices.

01:01:05Guest:Michael turned out, I mean, that was like his first picture, you know.

01:01:08Guest:I can say I'd put him on the map.

01:01:09Marc:Michael Mann.

01:01:11Guest:Yeah.

01:01:11Marc:Yeah.

01:01:12Guest:He's a half a dick, you know.

01:01:13Guest:He's a real little Hitler.

01:01:15Marc:Yeah.

01:01:16Guest:So...

01:01:18Guest:i'm i'm doing this picture and i'm looking at this sidewalk and for whatever reason i have no idea where it comes from yeah i decided because you know story about a guy there's like a true guy by the way which took you know there's two guys who make up that one character but yeah one of them you got put in jail for like forty dollars

01:01:41Guest:And that's where he first became a bad guy.

01:01:44Guest:That's a lot of these sentences they give these kids with a joint.

01:01:46Guest:They're in there with bad guys for the first time.

01:01:50Marc:Yeah, they get made into bigger bad guys.

01:01:52Guest:I knew 11 years because I had two fights in there and I hit this.

01:01:56Guest:The captain on the head, I did all this stuff.

01:02:00Guest:Yeah.

01:02:00Guest:So now I'm in a hurry to make up for them 11 years, you know?

01:02:04Guest:Right.

01:02:05Guest:Did you ever see the picture?

01:02:06Guest:Yeah.

01:02:08Guest:You know, and that thing I pulled out with Tuesday, the collage.

01:02:11Guest:The collage?

01:02:11Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:02:13Guest:That old scene.

01:02:14Guest:Yeah.

01:02:15Guest:So I said to Michael one day, I said, listen, if you notice in this picture, if you ever see it again, there is not one contraction in it.

01:02:23Guest:No, isn't, wasn't.

01:02:25Guest:No contractions.

01:02:27Guest:So I am the last guy on earth you want to mess with, you know.

01:02:31Guest:Right.

01:02:31Guest:I just never had it.

01:02:34Guest:I am the last guy you want to fuck with.

01:02:36Guest:Okay.

01:02:37Guest:Yeah.

01:02:39Guest:So I'm doing this thing and I'm, I'm, I'm doing a, what is it?

01:02:44Guest:What is it that you think that I'm wearing?

01:02:46Guest:These are $3, you know, and Michael's goes, wait a minute.

01:02:52Guest:Why are you, why are you, why are you speaking like that?

01:02:55Guest:Why am I speaking like what?

01:02:59Guest:You're not, I mean, I say it's because I never want to repeat myself.

01:03:06Guest:Do you understand?

01:03:08Guest:You're in a hurry.

01:03:09Guest:Exactly.

01:03:10Guest:Haste makes waste.

01:03:14Guest:Yeah.

01:03:14Guest:Okay.

01:03:16Guest:You know, so the hope is you won't find one contraction in there.

01:03:20Marc:And that was your choice?

01:03:21Marc:Yeah.

01:03:22Marc:Huh.

01:03:22Guest:You guys are really in a hurry, but that's really odd, right?

01:03:25Guest:But I am not going to repeat myself.

01:03:27Guest:You understand?

01:03:27Marc:Making up for the lost time.

01:03:28Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:03:29Marc:Yeah, no, I'm not.

01:03:30Marc:Yeah.

01:03:31Marc:That's fucking great.

01:03:32Marc:And what about the one you directed?

01:03:34Marc:How come you didn't want to direct more?

01:03:36Guest:Oh, I got the best reviews on that.

01:03:38Guest:I know.

01:03:38Guest:The Hide and Plane site.

01:03:39Guest:It was so, yeah.

01:03:40Guest:It was so great.

01:03:42Guest:They didn't understand it.

01:03:42Guest:I had these idiots over there at MGM UA.

01:03:45Yeah.

01:03:45Guest:yeah i think they were and they put it out and they didn't even have single sheets yet and then they came out and i got these reviews and then they realized oh my god you know they try to put it out again but they got a movie on their hands the truth of the matter is you know if you make a movie even when i'm acting this sounds pompous but it's i don't mean it that way i want everybody in the world to love it obviously sure but you're really making it for about 20 guys or 15 girls and girls that you know you respect a lot and

01:04:12Guest:Right.

01:04:13Guest:So when Francis told me it's one of his best five movies or ten movies, you know, that he's ever seen.

01:04:17Guest:Yeah.

01:04:19Guest:And Pollock wrote me a letter and a lot of the guys wrote me a letter.

01:04:22Guest:So that was really good and rewarding for me.

01:04:24Guest:But the kids were so good.

01:04:26Guest:You know, I found Jill Eikenberry.

01:04:28Guest:I mean, it was so much fun doing it because I could get to play with my actors, you know.

01:04:34Guest:Yeah.

01:04:35Guest:And I felt bad for them.

01:04:39Guest:That they didn't get the recognition.

01:04:41Guest:But they did, in the business they did.

01:04:44Guest:They did all right.

01:04:45Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:04:47Marc:It's so funny.

01:04:48Marc:You know what I noticed when I was watching all these movies is how many times you're recovering from gunshot wounds or in a hospital bed.

01:04:56Marc:It's like you got a fucking bullet and it comes a horseman and then in Misery you're in the fucking bed recovering and Killer Elite you got to recover from something and Brian's song, Brian's song you're dying.

01:05:08Guest:You got to have at least two bullets in you.

01:05:12Guest:His love stories have two bullets.

01:05:14Guest:That guy is crazy.

01:05:16Guest:Did you like that guy?

01:05:18Guest:Sam, yeah.

01:05:19Guest:Complete wacko.

01:05:20Guest:Complete.

01:05:21Guest:I had to see him with Bobby in the morning.

01:05:23Guest:Like, the night before...

01:05:26Guest:First of all, I had that cane shit.

01:05:29Guest:I studied that for a while.

01:05:30Guest:I teach it.

01:05:33Guest:Bobby and I have this thing.

01:05:35Guest:It's a whole written scene.

01:05:36Guest:We're going to work that next day in the car.

01:05:38Guest:If you'll see that the first night and then the second day we're in the car, it's a long scene.

01:05:42Guest:It's about a broad that I took up to the

01:05:46Guest:My room.

01:05:47Guest:He came up to my room.

01:05:48Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

01:05:49Guest:And he gives you the fake VD thing.

01:05:50Guest:And he gives you this thing with a... Yeah, she has some kind of venereal disease.

01:05:55Guest:That's true.

01:05:55Guest:My fucking brother went into a wallet, found it, and was laughing his ass off.

01:06:00Guest:Didn't stop me, you little prick.

01:06:02Guest:But I didn't know about that because she was...

01:06:05Guest:He says, did you touch your pussy?

01:06:08Guest:And I went, spit out the cheese I was eating.

01:06:11Guest:I couldn't remember.

01:06:13Guest:They were laughing.

01:06:14Guest:So I told Sam, he goes, tell that story.

01:06:17Guest:What about all the Starlogs you wrote?

01:06:18Guest:Fuck it.

01:06:19Guest:Just tell that story to Bobby.

01:06:21Guest:That's how that came about.

01:06:22Guest:He's nuts.

01:06:22Guest:I'm telling him.

01:06:24Marc:And he just put it in the movie?

01:06:25Marc:Yeah.

01:06:26Marc:So what about these times?

01:06:27Marc:What about like, you know, it seems like there were times where you like, you didn't want to act anymore.

01:06:31Marc:You quit or you retired or you had trouble.

01:06:33Guest:No.

01:06:34Guest:Yeah.

01:06:34Guest:I had,

01:06:35Guest:I lost my sister, you know, which was like brutal.

01:06:39Guest:She was like my best friend, my sister.

01:06:42Guest:Yeah.

01:06:43Guest:And yeah, things were coming easy, you know, and

01:06:50Guest:I don't know.

01:06:51Guest:And then I got into cocaine, which I never did.

01:06:53Guest:I was a ball player my whole life.

01:06:56Guest:But I coached my kids.

01:06:57Guest:You have no idea.

01:07:00Guest:I quit and I coached for five years.

01:07:03Guest:I coached baseball.

01:07:05Guest:I coached soccer, which I knew nothing about, and basketball.

01:07:11Guest:And we won.

01:07:12Guest:I mean, it was great.

01:07:14Marc:And you weren't acting at all?

01:07:16Guest:No.

01:07:17Guest:In one day, I can feel more creative than I can with one of these kids than I can with six months in a movie.

01:07:24Guest:Yeah.

01:07:24Guest:Forget it.

01:07:25Guest:It's great.

01:07:26Guest:And I worked my ass.

01:07:27Guest:I brought kids to my house.

01:07:29Guest:I bought a batting machine.

01:07:30Guest:I got a batting machine from the Dodgers in my house.

01:07:34Guest:It was great.

01:07:35Guest:My kid was the number one pick, Scott.

01:07:37Guest:Yeah.

01:07:38Guest:Andy Lopez, who was coach of Pepperdine.

01:07:42Guest:Yeah.

01:07:42Guest:Offered him a good baseball coach at Pepperdine.

01:07:45Guest:Yeah.

01:07:45Guest:Offered him a scholarship when he was 13.

01:07:47Guest:Says the best set of hands he's seen.

01:07:49Marc:So this was what you did to kind of get over the sadness?

01:07:52Guest:No, I did that to get some life back into myself, you know?

01:07:57Guest:I don't know.

01:07:58Marc:After the coke and stuff?

01:07:59Guest:I realized that, yeah, it was terrible.

01:08:01Guest:Terrible.

01:08:02Guest:Really destructive.

01:08:03Guest:Yeah.

01:08:04Guest:And...

01:08:06Guest:I realized that the three words I like least.

01:08:10Guest:Yeah.

01:08:11Guest:I don't care.

01:08:13Guest:Yeah.

01:08:14Guest:You want to play tennis?

01:08:15Guest:I don't care.

01:08:15Guest:You don't care.

01:08:16Guest:Well, fuck you.

01:08:17Guest:I don't.

01:08:17Guest:I want to know that I beat you today that you wanted to play.

01:08:20Guest:It does me no good.

01:08:21Guest:I can hit against a court.

01:08:22Guest:You know, like, yeah, you know, you want to fuck?

01:08:26Guest:Oh, well, maybe.

01:08:27Guest:OK.

01:08:28Guest:OK.

01:08:28Guest:You're really.

01:08:29Guest:No, you know what I mean?

01:08:30Guest:Yeah.

01:08:31Guest:Yeah.

01:08:32Guest:So the passion became passion became everything to me, like.

01:08:36Guest:Someone's passionate about something, I'm going to listen.

01:08:38Guest:Not that you have to be crazy, but they care.

01:08:41Guest:So I got into this whole bullshit fucking thing.

01:08:44Guest:And then I realized how destructive it was.

01:08:51Guest:Then I had some good friends.

01:08:52Guest:Nobody was better to me than Castle Rock.

01:08:59Guest:Those guys, I had friends...

01:09:01Marc:Rob Reiner?

01:09:02Guest:Yeah, Meathead was one, and Andy Sherman, and they offer me Misery.

01:09:08Guest:Misery, I don't know.

01:09:10Guest:They...

01:09:11Guest:Rob must believe me something because I think they went to Warren Beatty and Warren was a good guy.

01:09:16Guest:He said, no, you want a real man for this?

01:09:19Guest:You want someone like Jimmy Carr or something?

01:09:22Guest:So they came to me to do it.

01:09:27Guest:They offered me something was very fair.

01:09:29Guest:Yeah.

01:09:30Guest:You know, very fair for not being around for long.

01:09:32Guest:More than fair.

01:09:32Guest:There's like a one third of what I made, which I was making pretty good money.

01:09:35Guest:I was one of the highest paid guys around.

01:09:38Guest:Yeah.

01:09:38Guest:And and.

01:09:40Guest:I did it.

01:09:41Marc:And that was another part where what would you do to prepare for that?

01:09:45Guest:I mean, like, first of all, you know me.

01:09:47Guest:I mean, you know me well enough, but I knew Rob.

01:09:50Guest:He left.

01:09:51Guest:I said, I know why you did this.

01:09:53Guest:You took the most.

01:09:57Guest:Well, let me see what the word was I used.

01:10:00Guest:Neurotic guy in Hollywood, you know, and put him in bed for 15 weeks, right?

01:10:08Guest:You could sense I want to get out so bad, you know, and Robert is great.

01:10:12Guest:So I looked.

01:10:13Guest:And Kathy was wonderful.

01:10:16Guest:She loved to rehearse.

01:10:18Guest:I don't like to rehearse.

01:10:20Guest:Yeah.

01:10:20Guest:Especially here.

01:10:22Guest:So Rob comes and says, Jimmy, do you mind if she wants to rehearse?

01:10:25Guest:I really don't want to rehearse.

01:10:27Guest:I mean, if it's okay.

01:10:29Guest:You know, why?

01:10:29Guest:I mean, look.

01:10:32Guest:I don't know if she's going to kiss me or fuck me when she comes in.

01:10:37Guest:Why do I want to know without before?

01:10:38Guest:Let me get lost.

01:10:40Guest:I understand that I have no idea.

01:10:42Guest:Just do what I have to do.

01:10:44Guest:I'm not playing anything.

01:10:44Guest:I don't have to play with my dialogue.

01:10:47Marc:Right.

01:10:47Guest:I go, don't get near me, you know?

01:10:50Marc:Let her rehearse with somebody else.

01:10:52Guest:Let her rehearse.

01:10:53Guest:She's going to hit me in the head with a bat.

01:10:55Guest:So he got that and he rehearsed with me all the time.

01:10:58Guest:And I had a lot of fun.

01:10:59Marc:So you didn't know.

01:11:00Marc:You wanted to keep it so you didn't know what she was going to do.

01:11:02Guest:I want me, the character.

01:11:06Marc:Yeah.

01:11:07Guest:I know what she's going to do, but I try to play against that.

01:11:10Guest:Well, what good would that be?

01:11:11Guest:You're taking away the acting part.

01:11:14Guest:No, not the acting.

01:11:15Guest:What am I acting acting for?

01:11:16Guest:Right, right, right.

01:11:17Guest:I have to really try to remember what she's going to do.

01:11:19Guest:Of course, yes, I know that.

01:11:20Guest:But I already have my innards rehearsed and ready.

01:11:25Guest:I've done it already.

01:11:26Guest:Now I got where I should be.

01:11:28Guest:And she was really good.

01:11:31Marc:Did you like doing that part?

01:11:34Guest:I had to be in bed.

01:11:35Guest:It was really tough.

01:11:36Guest:I mean, I am kind of, you know, I'm just going to move all the time.

01:11:41Guest:Yeah.

01:11:43Guest:Our cameraman, Stanley, when I had to get out of bed and crawl to the door, when Rob wasn't looking, he'd go around and I'd be watching him.

01:11:56Guest:Here's your route.

01:11:57Guest:And he'd spit on the floor, the prick.

01:11:59Guest:So when I had strategic spots.

01:12:03Guest:Yeah.

01:12:04Marc:You had such a great, you know, like you knew all these guys.

01:12:08Marc:I mean, I can't even believe that when you, like one of the first movies you did, you're with Mitchum and John Wayne.

01:12:13Marc:How about that?

01:12:14Marc:That must have been crazy.

01:12:15Guest:22 or 23 years old.

01:12:17Guest:Must have been crazy.

01:12:18Guest:First thing I did was got lifts from my fucking heels with those two guys.

01:12:23Guest:I love Mitchum to death.

01:12:24Guest:He was around it.

01:12:25Guest:That guy was...

01:12:26Guest:That guy was okay, boy.

01:12:29Guest:And so Mitch, I mean, I go to work with Wayne.

01:12:34Guest:Yeah.

01:12:35Guest:And the first week is me and Wayne riding to Eldorado, riding, and I sing that poem, you know, about Eldorado.

01:12:43Guest:Yeah.

01:12:44Guest:And I'm noticing he's talking to me.

01:12:46Guest:I'm saying, this fucking guy don't talk right, you know?

01:12:49Guest:I used to notice it, but now I'm here, coming from the studio and, you know, at the Playhouse and

01:12:57Guest:And I'd say he'd go, like he shoots this kid.

01:13:01Guest:And he goes down and picks his head up and he goes, why'd you do it, Luke?

01:13:08Guest:Why'd you have to go and do that?

01:13:11Guest:Who the fuck talks like that?

01:13:12Guest:I'm saying to myself.

01:13:15Guest:So he says, no, Mississippi.

01:13:17Guest:Here's what we're going to do.

01:13:19Guest:We're going to walk.

01:13:21Guest:And I just couldn't fucking believe it.

01:13:23Guest:So like I tell you, it's like whatever's there, I'm looking at him in awe.

01:13:28Guest:And I'm smiling.

01:13:29Guest:I can't believe this guy was really real.

01:13:35Guest:No human talks like this fucking guy.

01:13:37Guest:And I'm just smiling.

01:13:39Guest:So Mitchum comes about two weeks later to join us.

01:13:43Guest:And I had that hat on.

01:13:44Guest:And Mitchum comes out and he goes, Hey, Jiminy Cricket.

01:13:47Guest:Because I had that hat on.

01:13:49Guest:Yeah.

01:13:51Guest:You're doing a lot of smiling there.

01:13:52Guest:They got to show him the dailies, you know?

01:13:54Guest:Yeah.

01:13:55Guest:You're doing a lot of smiling there.

01:13:56Guest:I'm talking to Mitch.

01:13:58Guest:Has you ever listened to this fucking talk?

01:13:59Guest:What are you talking about?

01:14:02Guest:He laughed, man, you know?

01:14:04Guest:I kept it up, you know, with Wayne.

01:14:07Guest:Yeah.

01:14:07Guest:And he turned out to be like a 12-year-old kid.

01:14:09Guest:I mean, I loved him, but he was...

01:14:11Guest:If he could intimidate you, I'm there with these two fucking giants.

01:14:16Guest:Yeah.

01:14:17Guest:22 or whatever the hell I was.

01:14:20Guest:Yeah.

01:14:21Guest:And Howard Hawks, the 72-year-old then, he was Howard Hawks, you know?

01:14:27Guest:Right.

01:14:29Guest:There was one scene where we come around the corner at the top of the street, and the bad guys were all down at the end of the street in the bar on the right.

01:14:36Guest:That's where I throw that knife or something else goes on.

01:14:39Guest:I think Mitchum goes in and does this thing.

01:14:41Guest:But anyway, these bad guys in the town looking for him.

01:14:45Guest:We come around the corner.

01:14:47Guest:We finally look for him.

01:14:48Guest:We came around the corner.

01:14:49Guest:Now I'm running.

01:14:51Guest:We first come running around the corner and we stop at the corner.

01:14:54Guest:And Duke says, nah, look at Mississippi.

01:14:58Guest:You run down here right down in the middle.

01:15:00Guest:Just scoot around that back end.

01:15:02Guest:And I come around it and you come in.

01:15:05Guest:That front door when I'm going.

01:15:08Guest:Yeah.

01:15:09Guest:I mentioned one of them.

01:15:11Guest:Okay.

01:15:11Guest:So Hawks come over.

01:15:12Guest:We had to dress the whole front, dress the street.

01:15:16Guest:You know, there's two six-ups there.

01:15:17Guest:I mean, one six-up, two four-ups.

01:15:19Guest:A bunch of horses, people walking up.

01:15:21Guest:It was the length of the street.

01:15:23Guest:Yeah.

01:15:23Guest:Took quite a while, you know.

01:15:24Guest:yeah all right you ready guys she's okay so now jimmy when you say that line boom you go right i'll do this and go shovels back to the camera's about 50 yards away yeah turns around and as he's walking back gook turns to me he says no look at you when you say that to her line i want you to turn around and give me that look you give me

01:15:48Guest:What the fuck look?

01:15:49Guest:I give you what?

01:15:50Guest:What look?

01:15:51Guest:Yeah.

01:15:53Guest:I guess he was picking up on me smiling at him all the time.

01:15:58Guest:You know?

01:15:59Guest:Yeah.

01:16:01Guest:So I said, what?

01:16:03Guest:Just turn around and give me that look you give me and then go.

01:16:08Guest:I said, okay, dude.

01:16:11Guest:Everybody back around.

01:16:12Guest:Action.

01:16:14Guest:Flying around the corner.

01:16:15Guest:And I turn around.

01:16:17Guest:Cut!

01:16:20Guest:Yeah.

01:16:21Guest:Jesus Christ, what happened?

01:16:23Guest:Here comes Hawks, slowly across.

01:16:24Guest:Bring everybody back.

01:16:26Guest:Yeah.

01:16:26Guest:Look, Jimmy, when you say the line, I need you to go.

01:16:30Guest:I don't need you to stand there because it's got to be a little whatever.

01:16:33Guest:You know, we need... Pace.

01:16:36Guest:Yeah, no, yeah, there's a speed.

01:16:37Guest:We need to get down there.

01:16:39Guest:Yeah.

01:16:39Guest:I said, I'm sorry, Coach.

01:16:41Guest:I'm looking at this prick.

01:16:42Guest:He didn't say a word.

01:16:44Guest:All right.

01:16:45Guest:Sorry, Coach.

01:16:45Guest:Sorry, sorry.

01:16:47Guest:We start walking down.

01:16:49Guest:He starts walking back to the camera.

01:16:51Guest:He says, nah, look it, kid.

01:16:53Guest:I told you, when you give me that look, don't take a full step.

01:16:56Guest:You take a half a step.

01:16:58Guest:And then you turn around and give me that look you give me.

01:17:03Guest:Okay, Duke.

01:17:05Guest:This is really early on in a relationship.

01:17:08Guest:Right.

01:17:10Guest:Fucking courses, everything come again.

01:17:12Guest:There you go.

01:17:14Guest:I run down.

01:17:15Guest:I take a step.

01:17:16Guest:All right, I'll go down and turn around.

01:17:18Guest:Cut.

01:17:20Guest:Yeah.

01:17:24Guest:What the fuck?

01:17:25Guest:What does it matter with you, Jimmy?

01:17:26Guest:What do you mean, Coach?

01:17:27Guest:I'm sorry.

01:17:29Guest:I told you, don't turn around again.

01:17:31Guest:Look at him.

01:17:31Guest:It's important.

01:17:32Guest:You say it and you go.

01:17:33Guest:Yeah.

01:17:34Guest:And I'm waiting for John.

01:17:35Guest:The young kid, he's getting his ass kicked by the director.

01:17:38Guest:He don't say a fucking word.

01:17:40Guest:Yeah.

01:17:41Guest:So I said, I'm sorry, because I promise it will not happen again.

01:17:45Guest:I'm so sorry.

01:17:47Guest:Right.

01:17:47Guest:You know, we ain't going to wipe the horses down.

01:17:50Guest:Now they're going to wipe them down.

01:17:51Guest:It was a fucking half hour.

01:17:52Guest:Yeah.

01:17:54Guest:Right?

01:17:54Guest:Yeah.

01:17:54Guest:I get in a position, and Duke goes, nah, lucky kid.

01:17:58Guest:And I turn around with my fist, and I was going to pop him.

01:18:02Guest:Right?

01:18:03Guest:And I was going to pop him.

01:18:04Guest:And all of a sudden, I get grabbed from the back from Mitch and grabbed both my arms from my back.

01:18:07Guest:He said, ooh, easy big fella.

01:18:09Guest:Ooh, easy big fella.

01:18:11Yeah.

01:18:13Guest:I said, you fuck, you know.

01:18:16Guest:And, you know, they both kind of laughed and that was it, you know.

01:18:20Guest:But from then on, we were great.

01:18:22Guest:He was like my best friend, you know.

01:18:25Guest:Was he just fucking with you?

01:18:26Guest:If he could get you, he would do the Arthur Honeycutt.

01:18:28Guest:If he could intimidate you, he'd fucking, the whole picture, you'd be intimidated.

01:18:33Guest:You'd get scared to death of him.

01:18:35Marc:By Wayne.

01:18:36By Wayne.

01:18:36Guest:Yeah.

01:18:37Guest:You know, if he could see that.

01:18:38Guest:And me, it became so bad.

01:18:40Guest:Like, like.

01:18:41Guest:Because you were laughing at him.

01:18:44Guest:He'd do it on purpose.

01:18:46Guest:So, so we're sitting there.

01:18:48Guest:We have this scene like you're across the desk.

01:18:50Guest:I am now.

01:18:51Guest:Yeah.

01:18:51Guest:Right.

01:18:52Guest:And I'm off camera.

01:18:53Guest:Yeah.

01:18:53Guest:This is when we go on with doing this.

01:18:56Guest:And the camera's over my shoulder on him.

01:18:59Guest:Yeah.

01:19:00Guest:So I'm standing there and he starts talking and I'm going, stop.

01:19:06Guest:And he laughed like that.

01:19:09Guest:What's the matter, dude?

01:19:11Guest:Oh, nothing, pappy.

01:19:12Guest:Nothing wrong with you.

01:19:14Guest:Fuck.

01:19:14Guest:And I'd make him laugh, you know.

01:19:17Guest:He was like a little kid.

01:19:19Guest:You know those wooden dressing rooms they have on the set sometimes?

01:19:22Guest:Yeah.

01:19:22Guest:You know the wooden dressing rooms, you have a key for it.

01:19:24Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:19:26Guest:Like a lot.

01:19:26Guest:I come in there one day and I open it after lunch.

01:19:29Guest:Fucking garbage fell out.

01:19:30Guest:I mean, tons of shit fell out.

01:19:32Guest:Dude, you know.

01:19:33Guest:He's like a fucking kid.

01:19:35Marc:But that was such a – what a great baptism in the show business.

01:19:38Marc:Because you must have watched those guys when you were a kid, right?

01:19:42Marc:Sure.

01:19:42Marc:I mean, Mitchum, right?

01:19:45Marc:Did you stay friends with Mitchum?

01:19:47Guest:Yeah.

01:19:48Guest:I mean, apparently, yeah, he threw – Mitchum was around.

01:19:51Guest:He threw George.

01:19:52Guest:He had a 220-pound driver.

01:19:53Guest:George threw him off a bridge up in San Francisco.

01:19:59Guest:Mitchum did.

01:20:00Guest:He threw George's driver.

01:20:02Yeah.

01:20:02Guest:I was that fucking fat George.

01:20:04Guest:Oh, my God.

01:20:05Guest:Mitchum.

01:20:07Guest:And we used to go down, me and some stuntmen.

01:20:09Guest:I was a stuntman all my life with them.

01:20:12Guest:I worked sometimes with my friend Walter.

01:20:15Guest:And we go down to Mexico.

01:20:19Guest:and we can come back shit-faced.

01:20:20Guest:I mean, you know, we go to Mitchum's house, because he was the only fucking guy.

01:20:25Guest:And his parents, you know, his wife's parent, Dorothy, his wife, you know, he was a colonel, and they were this highline North Carolina company that had that farm.

01:20:38Guest:And we come in drunk at night.

01:20:42Guest:And you start fighting on this kitchen floor.

01:20:44Guest:Me and Chuck, little Chuck, we're just fighting, just terrible drunk.

01:20:50Guest:And one day, his parents came up to see him.

01:20:53Guest:His mother did.

01:20:54Guest:Yeah.

01:20:54Guest:I don't know his father.

01:20:56Guest:And Chuck Roberson and another guy were on the floor, Buzz Henry.

01:21:01Guest:They're fighting.

01:21:02Yeah.

01:21:03Guest:in the kitchen, but that's where the beers were, I guess, and we didn't know.

01:21:08Guest:Here comes his mother, Mitch and his mother, and I'm on the floor, Mitch and I, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you,

01:21:28Marc:Good times, huh?

01:21:29Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:21:31Guest:Got to have a good time, that's for sure.

01:21:33Guest:There's nothing worse than being on a picture and not having one.

01:21:38Guest:It's like every morning you got to wake up, but I made sure that I can proudly say for most of my pictures.

01:21:44Guest:I either made them like me or made them laugh or whatever it was.

01:21:51Marc:Hey, man, it was great talking to you, Jimmy.

01:21:55Guest:Did I talk to you this long?

01:21:56Guest:I'm going crazy up here.

01:21:57Guest:This is a big deal for me to talk to any living human.

01:22:00Guest:It was great.

01:22:02Guest:Come back tomorrow.

01:22:03Guest:What are you doing?

01:22:04Marc:Nothing.

01:22:04Marc:I wish there wasn't this fucking plague around.

01:22:07Marc:I would come over anytime and talk.

01:22:10Guest:I'm sorry that's fine I got that's only that's a few more I'll take a couple funny ones so you can you know I'll keep it up in your alley no it was great it was a real honor buddy and I I mean you're a big part of my life my whole life and you know my father loved you it was a real honor to talk to you and meet you well thank you thank you very much take care man all right buddy take care

01:22:39Marc:Fucking James Caan.

01:22:41Marc:What do you think about that?

01:22:43Marc:Wild.

01:22:44Marc:It was totally wild talking to that guy.

01:22:47Marc:Now I'm gonna play guitar.

01:22:49Marc:A little bit.

01:22:50Marc:A little bit.

01:22:52Marc:A little bit.

01:23:22Thank you.

01:24:35Marc:Boomer lives.

01:24:37Marc:Mafonda monkey.

01:24:40Marc:The flying cap brigade.