Episode 1147 - Sarah Snook
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:Sarah Snook is on the show today.
Marc:She's on one of my favorite shows.
Marc:I think maybe ever.
Marc:Succession.
Marc:She plays Shiv Roy.
Marc:And she's Australian, which I didn't know.
Marc:And she was in Australia when I spoke to her.
Marc:Actually in Australia.
Marc:And it was a pretty good connection, I thought.
Marc:um yeah we live in amazing times both for for good and for horrendous for fucking horrendous yeah man i just um i can't sweep like i used to i think that happens as we get older i'm told and like i start tossing and turning about 4 30 and
Marc:That's when shit starts spinning.
Marc:That's where I miss Lynn a lot.
Marc:That's when I think about my own mortality.
Marc:That's when I think about the end of the world.
Marc:Those scenarios, the how many days do I have before they start pulling people out of their homes and shooting them in the gutters out in front of their houses?
Marc:How many more days?
Marc:And then I get up.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:I got some emails, some messages, some things, some people who related to the dynamic I have with my father.
Marc:Well, I'm here to tell you I called him yesterday, talked to him.
Marc:He seemed OK, level, no real politics.
Marc:He did seem to suggest that the virus might just go away.
Marc:A fucking doctor.
Marc:He was a fucking doctor.
Marc:Might just go away.
Marc:Things go away.
Marc:What?
Marc:Do they?
Marc:Like what has gone away in recent history without a reasonable vaccine or treatment or behavioral changes?
Marc:We didn't get into it.
Marc:He didn't fight me on it.
Marc:I think he just wasn't thinking.
Marc:You know when people say that?
Marc:I'm sorry, man.
Marc:I wasn't thinking.
Marc:That's the problem.
Marc:just wasn't thinking, but it's a different tone and they don't admit to it.
Marc:They could just be like, wow, you're right.
Marc:I just wasn't thinking because I was feeding my brain with garbage.
Marc:There was a spigot of garbage going to my head.
Marc:So it felt like I was thinking, it felt like it.
Marc:They would say things that would lock onto feelings and then it felt like I was thinking, but I wasn't thinking.
Marc:I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking.
Marc:I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking.
Marc:I. The stress is on I. Yesterday was my 21st sober anniversary.
Marc:21 years without a drink or a drug.
Marc:Can't say I haven't had some cake or some pie or jerked off a couple of times or had some pretty intense sex.
Marc:But not a drink or a drug.
Marc:You find other things, don't you?
Marc:Add some coffee, a lot of coffee.
Marc:I blow my brains out on caffeine.
Marc:But none of it's the same.
Marc:Nothing makes my life unmanageable.
Marc:Be careful out there with your vaginas and penises, all right?
Marc:Just be careful.
Marc:If you're going crazy, take it easy.
Marc:They can only take so much before they go a little numb on you.
Marc:But I don't know what's going to happen.
Marc:Nothing's looking good.
Marc:If that's the way you want to go out,
Marc:21 years, and I'm very grateful about it, and I've enjoyed the help of you people, and I've enjoyed the feedback that I've helped you people.
Marc:That's the way it works.
Marc:Couple alcoholics, drug addicts trying to stay sober, talking to each other.
Marc:Do I feel better?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Am I happy that I'm awake for this?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I don't think about it anymore.
Marc:That's one of the gifts that for me, and I only speak for myself, I am not a representative of any organization or group, but for me, working the program
Marc:In the secret society, after about four or five years, the obsession to drink and use drugs went away.
Marc:I did no longer thought about it as an option or even a default, like somehow or another.
Marc:And I'm a guy that thinks about shit compulsively for sure.
Marc:Like, I can't get on this mic without getting a coffee or a tea or having something to eat, eating nine things.
Marc:I just ate some cake.
Marc:Ate some fucking cake, ate a mountain of tortilla chips today, homemade guacamole, grilled oysters, which were dubious because I left them sit in the fucking fridge.
Marc:I'm just saying that I am prone to compulsive behavior.
Marc:Thank God, not gambling.
Marc:And I know what it's like to certainly like when I was doing the nicotine, it's going to be a year off nicotine in a couple of weeks.
Marc:You know, just looking forward to it, looking forward to it.
Marc:My reward, my relief, my ticket out.
Marc:Get me out of here.
Marc:Help me.
Marc:I deserve this.
Marc:But I'll tell you, man, I don't think of it as an option.
Marc:Not only do I not think of it as an option, I don't think about it.
Marc:Hey, man, I want a cigarette.
Marc:Hey, man, I want some weed.
Marc:Hey, man, can I have that one hitter?
Marc:Do they still have one hitters?
Marc:Hey, man, can I get a shot?
Marc:Can I get a shot?
Marc:Can I get a shot?
Marc:Can I get a shot of Jameson?
Marc:Can I get a shot of Jack?
Marc:Can I get a shot?
Marc:Take a pint.
Marc:A pint of lager.
Marc:I'll just do one line.
Marc:Just one line.
Marc:Just one line.
Marc:Crush that fucking pill up.
Marc:Crush it up.
Marc:I don't even know the slang anymore.
Marc:Crush that fucker up.
Marc:Let's snort that shit.
Marc:Tap out the bubbles, motherfucker.
Marc:Nope.
Marc:Don't think about it.
Marc:And that's a gift because that struggle and that's the struggle a lot of people have at the beginning where they're like, am I ever going to not be crazy?
Marc:It's going to take a few years, man, because you're fucking crazy.
Marc:You've been medicating crazy.
Marc:You have to get through the crazy.
Marc:I know this is a bad time to have to deal with this shit, but it might be a great time.
Marc:This might be a perfect time for you to start getting sober.
Marc:What else are you doing?
Marc:what are you drinking away well i mean i get it but like all those stresses if you're in dire straits unemployment money that kind of stuff housing sure i don't think drugs are going to make it better i don't think drinking is going to make it better but if you do have the the wherewithal and some safety net in your personal life and you think you have a problem this is a great time to try to get sober because
Marc:You can focus, man.
Marc:Focus on it.
Marc:See if there's some Zoom meetings around.
Marc:They're all over the place.
Marc:You can go to a meeting anywhere in the world right now.
Marc:I'm just saying.
Marc:There's hope out there.
Marc:It does feel better.
Marc:You don't want to be anyone.
Marc:You don't want to be a slave to anything, do you?
Marc:You don't want to not have a choice because that shit in your dresser owns you.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Come on!
Marc:The house is quiet.
Marc:I feel the absence of both Monkey and obviously I feel the absence of Lynn.
Marc:The sadness.
Marc:But I got little fucking Buster, that little brute.
Marc:Buster Kitten, that little bruiser.
Marc:And it's weird that he's acting different because he's lost his bully juice.
Marc:He used to run around like crazy in the morning.
Marc:I think that was just to fuck with Monkey.
Marc:Now he's just...
Marc:I don't want to project.
Marc:I don't want to anthropomorphize too much.
Marc:I don't want to assume he's sad or grieving or mourning.
Marc:I think he's adjusting to being the only guy.
Marc:And now he's got my full attention.
Marc:And I don't think he knows what to do with it.
Marc:Would you?
Marc:Would you know what to do with my full attention?
Marc:Do you know how exhausting that can be when I'm paying full attention to something or somebody?
Marc:But I realized I didn't really know that guy, Buster.
Marc:I knew him a little bit when he was younger.
Marc:What is that?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:Oh, my salmon's ready.
Marc:Oh, fuck.
Marc:I'll leave it on there.
Marc:I'm slow.
Marc:I'm like it's on a low temperature.
Marc:I'm kind of smoking it.
Marc:So for later, because I have nothing to do and I cook when I have nothing to do and I'm still cooking as if like many people are around and there's no one around but me.
Marc:I'm cooking.
Marc:I'm buying food and I'm making food like there's still two people eating it.
Marc:And I look at the food.
Marc:I open the fridge.
Marc:I look at it and I go, that's great.
Marc:I got a lot of food.
Marc:And I don't end up eating it.
Marc:I used to eat popcorn every night with Lynn.
Marc:And now I haven't eaten any popcorn at all since she's been gone.
Marc:I can't eat popcorn anymore.
Marc:I'm eating garbage.
Marc:But Buster, I just didn't know him.
Marc:And now I'm getting to know him.
Marc:And it's okay.
Marc:We're going to be all right.
Marc:But it's sad, man.
Marc:It's sad.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:That's where I'm at.
Marc:Okay, so Sarah Snook, who I love, she's great on the show Succession.
Marc:She's been nominated for an Emmy for Supporting Actress in a Drama Series for her role as Shiv Roy in that show, Succession.
Marc:She's also in An American Pickle with Seth Rogen, which I neglected to talk about with her, which is streaming on HBO Max.com.
Marc:And also, there will be a very short discussion about the end of season two of Succession.
Marc:And I've been yelled at enough times about spoilers that I will interrupt the interview to let you know it's coming and tell you how to skip ahead.
Marc:All right?
Marc:Spoiler people, you should have watched it by now, though.
Marc:I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking.
Marc:This is me and Sarah Snook coming up.
Marc:What's going on down where you're in Melbourne?
Guest:I'm in Melbourne.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Is that where you live?
Guest:I live in New York, but I've lived in Melbourne this year out of a suitcase because I got stuck here at the beginning of the pandemic.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:And you couldn't get out?
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, I could have, but it just was not reasonable to go back to New York at the time.
Guest:It was like March 1st.
Marc:Yeah, why go back to New York?
Marc:I get it.
Guest:Things were exploding there.
Guest:And I was like, well, you know, maybe I'll just lay low in Melbourne for a bit.
Guest:And that was March and cut to, what are we, August?
Marc:I don't fucking know.
Guest:It was my niece's birthday two days ago.
Guest:I was like, August?
Guest:What?
Guest:Oh, God.
Marc:What's happening?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Were you able to go have a party?
Marc:Did you do that sad front yard drive-by shit that people do here?
Guest:No.
Guest:Not even that.
Guest:She's in Queensland.
Guest:We're all sort of disparate.
Guest:We've been separated as well.
Marc:Where's that?
Marc:How far is that?
Marc:The other side?
Guest:It would be 19 hours for me to drive plus two weeks quarantine if I... To Queensland?
Yeah.
Guest:to queensland if i went and visited our state borders are closed and because i'm in victoria in melbourne um we're sort of like the pariahs at the moment of australia so this is the first time melbourne's closed up uh no this is the third we did like lockdown in in march april and then we went down into a lockdown at the beginning of um
Guest:What month?
Guest:End of July.
Guest:And then we went into another lockdown during that lockdown.
Guest:That lockdown's been canceled.
Guest:We've got a lockdown 2.1 where we have a curfew now.
Guest:You can't leave your house after 8 p.m.
Guest:at night till 5 a.m.
Guest:in the morning.
Guest:You can only leave to go out for an hour of exercise per day.
Guest:One person per household can go to the shops and supermarkets.
Marc:Really?
Marc:How are they enforcing that?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Just common good, community-minded people, hopefully.
Marc:No, I guess we had that, too.
Marc:I guess that's the way it was at the beginning, and I imagine we're heading back for that.
Marc:Everyone's wearing masks.
Marc:I don't know why I think I'm treating Australia like it's another planet, but I have no sense.
Guest:It sounds like it right now.
Guest:For me, I'm at my friend's house, living off the kindness of my friends, out of a suitcase, and...
Guest:i do feel very isolated like i'm on a different planet i had to go do some work uh yesterday i had to do adr and i i guess i got special dispensation to go do it for what i'm just for a film uh for pieces of a woman um but you guys didn't shoot you didn't shoot another season of succession did you
Guest:Not yet.
Guest:No, no, that it was a film I shot in January.
Marc:So you guys are stuck.
Guest:Yeah, we're stuck starting, waiting to begin again.
Marc:That's such bullshit because it's like the one show that I like to watch.
Marc:I can't even shoot glow.
Marc:They put that off until next year.
Marc:So we're not even going to shoot our fourth season till next year.
Guest:They've definitively said not till next year.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So like, okay.
Guest:I'm surprised that we're still in this conversation of like, no, no, we're going to begin.
Guest:We're going to begin.
Guest:We just don't know when.
Guest:Where do you guys shoot, Gemma?
Guest:This month for then, New York.
Marc:And most of it's shot in studios?
Guest:No.
Guest:It's out in people's houses.
Guest:And there is studio stuff.
Guest:And we have been told that they will build more studio stuff.
Guest:But, you know, we shoot out on the street a lot.
Guest:And we shoot in, you know, we went to the Hamptons and we went to amazing places.
Guest:We were meant to go to, like, Italy and Dubai, I think, or, you know, places that were... For this season?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but that's I don't know what's going to happen with that.
Guest:That's all being recalibrated, I guess.
Marc:Have you seen the scripts?
Guest:No, not at all.
Guest:I don't think they're still being written.
Guest:I think they're taking their time now just kind of tinkering.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:When we do go back to work, there better not be any of that.
Marc:Like, well, we're still writing.
Marc:No, you can't be.
Guest:Not allowed.
Guest:See, I'm okay with that.
Guest:I'm okay with that because I think with our show, we get presented a script at the read-through and then we might be shooting in the next two or three days.
Guest:There's always a draft that comes through that's changed and again changed.
Guest:And then when we get to set, it gets changed again and we get given eight pages of alts of these lines.
Guest:You want to change that, change that.
Guest:And it's very like, there's a communication about how it evolves and develops.
Guest:There's nothing ever that changes major on plot.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:But I mean, I know that's fine.
Marc:I understand that.
Marc:But I mean, they should definitely know where everything's going.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They should know.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:What's going to happen.
Marc:I always wonder about that, though, with these shows, because, you know, I've had a show on the air and we didn't fucking know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We'd sit and go.
Marc:It wasn't like succession.
Marc:You know, this is not the arc of like this, this super rich, powerful family.
Marc:But I always wonder, like in the mind of the writers, you know,
Marc:Do they know how many seasons they got planned?
Guest:I know that Jesse, I think when he pitched even to HBO, he would have had seasons, like outlines of what was going to happen for the next couple of seasons.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I just wonder, because most shows, they want them to run forever.
Marc:They never want to stop them.
Marc:And I think the best shows are like, we're going to do four, and then we're done.
Guest:Four seasons.
Guest:I feel like Jesse would be classy like that.
Guest:I feel like four or five, and he would...
Guest:I don't see this running to the finish line exhausted.
Guest:I feel like leaving on a high note.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I never actually saw the end of Game of Thrones.
Marc:I never saw any of it.
Guest:I saw the first two seasons.
Guest:You never saw any at all?
Marc:No, don't be so shocked.
Marc:I mean, it's easy.
Marc:You just don't watch it.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:Were you a person who decided not to watch it because the rest of the world was talking about it so much?
Marc:No, I've just never been the fantasy guy.
Marc:I don't give a shit about dragons and knights.
Marc:It all seemed very complicated.
Marc:I'll sit and watch The Wire, and I'll watch three episodes a night, but I'm not going to watch armored people and flying lizards.
Marc:I can't do it.
Marc:It's just not judgmental.
Marc:I don't know if it'll hold my interest.
Guest:Yeah, no, fair enough, fair enough.
Guest:I didn't think it would either for me, but it did.
Marc:It did.
Guest:I certainly was interested, but then there was a part of me that was like, ah, the rest of the world's talking about it.
Guest:I'll get to it another time.
Marc:But how many, weren't there like 20 seasons?
Marc:How many seasons were there?
Marc:Nine?
Guest:Eight?
Guest:Eight, I think.
Guest:Yeah, eight, or I want to say like seven and a half, but definitely eight, and then I think they expanded one into two.
Marc:What have you been watching now?
Guest:Pen15s.
Guest:I love that show so much.
Guest:This is the second time I'm watching it.
Guest:My housemate has never seen it.
Guest:I was like, let's go back.
Marc:I talked to them.
Marc:It was good.
Guest:They're amazing.
Guest:It's so easy to forget that they're adults and not actually 13.
Marc:It's pretty fascinating.
Marc:One of them was on my show for a couple episodes, actually.
Guest:Anna?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's great.
Guest:It's actually amazing to watch it again, to get like the, just the tiny things that Anna does, particularly with her face that is just so able to play a 13 year old or 12, 13 year old girl pretending to be a mature woman.
Guest:Like there's like a kind of a mothering maternal instinct about her and yet not seem like an adult.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It's amazing.
Marc:It's trippy, right?
Marc:And they do it.
Marc:You believe it.
Marc:Yeah, totally.
Marc:And now, like, they're screwed because they were going to do another season, but not change the year.
Marc:They're going to have, because, like, all those kids are going to be, like, 20 by the time we shoot again.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:no no i never thought that that would be so particular about that one in particular because i remember asking them are you gonna you are is the next season gonna be like the next year and they're like no and i'm like are you gonna get new kids all those kids are gonna you know they're not gonna be like yeah in school yeah for some reason so let's like what is your story so you're like a huge star in australia
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:Who knows?
Marc:Because I love your work, but I don't know a lot of it.
Marc:And I know that because I'm looking at what you've done.
Guest:Scrolling my MDB.
Marc:Well, I usually go to Wiki for some reason.
Marc:But there's a whole industry in Australia.
Marc:Did you do all your schooling and everything there?
Marc:Where did you grow up?
Guest:yeah yeah i grew up in adelaide in south australia what is that compared to paint me a picture of adelaide what's it like adelaide's adelaide's like a big it's a city yeah it feels like a big country town in a lot of ways okay the first question people ask in adelaide is oh yeah what school did you go to okay and then then you would know somebody from that school or somebody who went to that school and therefore you would know their brother or sister or oh so it's like how you're related somehow medium-sized city
Guest:Yeah, it's like a million people or when I was growing up.
Guest:Small city.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I grew up next to a national park in the hills.
Guest:And, you know, I've always felt like I was really distant.
Guest:Like when my mom moved in with my stepdad was in the north of Adelaide and we grew up in the south of Adelaide.
Guest:And I remember thinking, oh, no friends are going to visit me.
Guest:It's so far away.
Guest:And I was there recently, two years ago, and drove from that area, from Prospect to the hills.
Guest:It's 20 minutes, 25 minutes.
Guest:It's on the side of the city.
Guest:Not that far at all.
Guest:But you were a kid.
Guest:And at the time, it was like a golf.
Guest:It was so huge.
Marc:Yeah, you were a kid.
Marc:You were like, oh, no.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How old were you?
Guest:Yeah, I'm down on the plains.
Guest:I left when I was 18.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How old were you when you had to move up north, though, when the big shift came?
Guest:Down off the hills?
Guest:I would have been 14, 15.
Marc:Oh, so that makes sense.
Marc:Did you have to change schools?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that was just coming out of high school.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What a nightmare.
Marc:New people.
Marc:Fucking worse.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also having gone to one year of high school with all my friends.
Marc:You slowly get disconnected from their lives and you can't keep up.
Guest:yeah no no i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm glad about it now like i you know it builds resilience right did it sort of throws you into a different area so when did your parents break up like how old was that 11 oh so that was a nightmare oh yeah traumatic it was right no it was fine i mean yeah it was yeah and but i don't like now not i don't have any um
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Everybody's cool?
Guest:I wouldn't have it any different.
Guest:No, I mean, the silence and hesitation with my voice.
Guest:No, I wouldn't have it any different because of who it's made me today.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:I think that's a good way to look at life if you can manage it.
Yeah.
Marc:Like I, I tried, I tried to do that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, my parents, it's great because like, you know, they're, they've got their good things and their bad things, but like, you know, I just try to focus on the good things and, uh, suppress the bad stuff and not hate them for it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:As long as you don't get into the serenity now situation, it's just go like, thank God they have the good things and bad things.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I, I, I don't know, man.
Marc:What's your dad?
Marc:Is he, are they around still?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, both my parents are around.
Guest:My dad lives in Perth.
Guest:My mom's in Adelaide.
Marc:Perth?
Marc:That's like way over there.
Guest:That's like the belly button of the world.
Guest:It's like the most isolated city in the world.
Guest:It's very distant.
Guest:From Sydney, it's a five-hour flight.
Marc:What's he do there?
Guest:Between New York and LA.
Guest:What is there?
Marc:What does he do there?
Guest:Oh, what does he do there?
Guest:He sells pools.
Marc:He sells pools?
Guest:Yeah, he's in retail.
Marc:Swimming pools.
Guest:Yeah, swimming pools.
Guest:It's warm over there.
Guest:It's very hot.
Marc:Above ground swimming pools?
Guest:Both.
Guest:Above ground, in ground.
Marc:So he's got guys who'll dig you a hole if you want a hole?
Guest:Yeah, I guess he plans the hole digging and what the client wants and build a pool.
Marc:That's his racket.
Marc:That's what he always did?
No.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I think he wants to get out of the racket soon.
Guest:Out of the pool game?
Guest:What is he, 71?
Guest:He's getting out of the pool game.
Guest:It's about time.
Guest:Sit by the pool rather than build him, right?
Marc:Yeah, that sounds good.
Marc:And do you have siblings?
Guest:I do.
Guest:I have two older sisters.
Marc:They're all sisters?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, three girls.
Marc:And you're the last one?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:By 10 and 6 years.
Guest:I'm the baby.
Marc:10 years older, one of your sisters?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Oh, so you were like, ugh, what happened?
Marc:What happened?
Guest:I was the mistake?
Guest:Is that what you were about to say?
Guest:Yeah, I was the mistake.
Guest:A happy one.
Guest:A happy accident.
Marc:At least they had it down.
Marc:Did your older sisters have to take care of you half the time?
Guest:Well, do you know what?
Guest:I didn't realize this.
Guest:I think as you become the ages that your sisters were at some point, you sort of realize new things.
Guest:Both my sisters have kids now, and it occurred to them and me that I was their first baby.
Guest:Because my sister was 10 or nine and a half when I was born.
Guest:And so she was able to hold me and carry me and look after me, feed me.
Marc:Figure out not to hurt you and drop you.
Guest:Yeah, two years old.
Guest:She's old.
Marc:That's wild.
Guest:So they have real memories of that.
Guest:She was like, wow.
Guest:And in some ways, I realized also that they've known me longer than I've known myself.
Guest:Like my consciousness about how old I am.
Guest:That's interesting.
Guest:But they've known me longer.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Cause when she was 15, you're five and that's like, you know, they left home, both of them left home at 18.
Guest:So I then, I had, you know, a family of five that went to a family of two.
Marc:That's always a sad, sad story.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then like, you're all alone.
Marc:Then you get ripped out of high school, dragged up.
Guest:You're really painting a real like traumatic childhood here.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:It was fine.
Guest:I mean, yeah, there's no like Oliver, Oliver twist here.
Marc:No, I get it.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:And what about your mom?
Marc:Was she what did she do for life?
Guest:She she did bits and pieces.
Guest:She went, you know, when I was I think this was probably pretty instrumental by chance, I guess.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She was a Disney sales rep at some point at one point where she would sell the videos that Disney was.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So I got like first look at the Little Mermaid and at the Lion King and Aladdin and I would sit in the rumpus room.
Guest:Do you guys have rumpus rooms in America?
Guest:It's like such a thing in Australia from the 80s and 90s.
Marc:Like the redone basement?
Guest:totally yeah yeah it's the basement um we had that at the end of our house i would just sit watching disney films back to back and on repeat and crying every time um simba's dad died like at the end when when scar like pushes him off crying oh yeah and then repeating and knowing all the lines from the genie so you think this was instrumental in uh in nurturing your performative imagination
Guest:Yes, I think so.
Guest:And thinking about it recently, I would intuitively go, no, don't watch Heaps of Disney films because of all the princess stuff, because that's not me.
Guest:I don't like that kind of narrative, like a man sweeping in to save the princess, that kind of vibe.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:But I watched all those films growing up, and that didn't turn me into this at all.
Guest:I watched those films and wanted to be Ursula and Scar and the genie and Jafar and all the bad guys.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So, yeah, what do I know?
Guest:Talking about princess films.
Marc:But at this point, you're alone.
Marc:The older sisters have gone.
Marc:Your parents and you have a new dad, right?
Yeah.
Guest:yeah he came in at like 14 yeah nice guy got a new mom as well i had a set mom yeah he's lovely he's fine he's everybody's okay you're you get along with everybody yeah yeah yeah oh that's nice yeah it's not one of those sad sort of like well i don't know where my dad is no no no good we're all in touch and and your sisters you get along with them
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah, how rosy.
Marc:Do they live nearby?
Marc:Are your sisters nearby?
Guest:No.
Guest:My sister's in London.
Guest:One's in London, the other one's in Papua New Guinea.
Marc:New Guinea?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What's going on there?
Guest:I mean, it's a pretty interesting country.
Marc:So when did you, like, start doing performing things?
Guest:Like, it seems like... I don't know, like, from when I was a kid, I guess.
Marc:You did plays and things?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I never professionally.
Guest:I never got paid to do it until I graduated from drama school.
Guest:But, you know, I was one of those kids who was just the drama kid who would do a performance at assembly or, you know, there was, like...
Guest:uh what do you call it junior orator and i compete in speech writing things where you had to 10 minutes write a speech and then perform it like debate did you do debate no weirdly i wasn't into debating i don't know why it was just the speeches yeah maybe i was like monologuing not debating dialogue yeah i don't want to defend anything and i don't want to argue with anybody this is about this is about me and i'm going to do it myself yeah
Guest:Yeah, and I want it all laid out, structured, and I want a character to play.
Guest:I don't want to be myself and argue a point.
Guest:I want to be somebody else.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Oh, you did characters then?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you make them up?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We did plays and we would make up plays and things like that.
Guest:And I learned all the Roald Dahl revolting rhymes off by heart.
Guest:The what?
Guest:Roald Dahl's revolting rhymes?
Marc:What are those?
Guest:Have you...
Guest:Oh, my goodness.
Guest:They're great.
Guest:I've got to write them down.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:Is it an Australian thing or am I just stupid?
Guest:No, Roald Dahl.
Guest:Do you know Roald Dahl?
Guest:How do you spell it?
Guest:You know Roald Dahl.
Guest:How do you spell it?
Guest:R-O-A-L-D-D-A-H-L.
Guest:He's the best children's writer ever.
Guest:He wrote The Witches, B of T. Oh, no, I don't know.
Marc:I wrote it down thinking that maybe it was your accent and there was no way I was going to understand what you were saying.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:And now I've written it down and I don't know who that is.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Oh, I'm so excited for you.
Guest:I mean, there's a lot of children's stuff, but he's got a lot of adult fiction as well, which is great.
Guest:Short stories.
Guest:He's an amazing writer.
Marc:I feel bad that I don't know him.
Marc:So you did a lot of that stuff.
Guest:Yeah, I would read to myself at night, you know, read the witches out loud.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then learned those revolting rhymes.
Guest:I think Stephen Fry and a bunch of other, you know, famous British actors that I wouldn't have known at the time did voice, like they did a tape that I used to listen to a lot.
Guest:And then I just learned it by listening to the tape.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:In the form of my family when we would go camping.
Yeah.
Guest:It was like, right, you finished dinner.
Guest:Let me perform.
Marc:Where are those tapes?
Marc:I'd like to see the videotape.
Guest:There is one of me doing a dance to the... Like Under the Sea, Little Mermaid.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I watched the tape recently and from my memory was like, this is amazing.
Guest:I've done all the moves, the choreography.
Guest:I've practiced all day.
Guest:My sister's going to tape it.
Guest:It's really good.
Guest:It's not.
Guest:It's not at all.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:Like a shaking jellyfish.
Guest:It would have been...
Marc:eight just running around and doing flips thinking i was really cool i mean i i don't think you can be too hard on yourself looking at it at your age now i don't think you should judge it it was probably it was very sweet probably amazing sure it's very cute but it's not good your parents what you did you just you go right into drama school after you know uh whatever your version of high school is
Guest:there yeah i did i auditioned at the end of um in my uh hsc sort of last exams year 12 exams i auditioned for drama school then and you did plays throughout high school or just the oratory stuff uh-huh uh-huh yeah so and you had a good plays and did you have a good drama teacher in high school i did i had i had a couple good ones because i i went to a school that had a really good drama program and i went there as a um on a scholarship you went oh you mean for high school
Guest:Yeah, so I went on a drama scholarship.
Guest:So I got to do and had to do the senior and junior team, quote-unquote, team, like after-school extracurricular drama stuff, which was great.
Guest:So as a 13-year-old, I was able to work with and learn from the 15-, 16-year-olds.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah, and that was with Mr. Jeffress.
Guest:He was great.
Guest:Mr. Jeffress.
Guest:Jeffo.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And then we had good drama teachers in high school as well.
Guest:Sheldie.
Guest:This is a strange thing.
Guest:As I said before about when you grow up and you become the age of your siblings, my drama teacher was 27, 28 when she was teaching us.
Guest:And then you pass that age and you go, oh, of course.
Guest:That's why we were friends and close at high school.
Guest:We're still friends now.
Guest:But it makes sense to me now.
Guest:But at the time, she was so much older and she had a whole life.
Guest:And she's only 28, 27.
Marc:Well, it's good when you have those experiences where, you know, you can look at it and still be impressed as opposed to like, oh, my God, that person was that age.
Marc:And now I'm this age.
Marc:Like, what were they doing with their life?
Guest:Do you have many of those?
Marc:I'm trying to think.
Marc:Usually that's limited to like camp counselors and things like that.
Marc:Like, what was that person doing?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But yeah, everybody was a lot.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:My parents, my mother had me when she was 22.
Marc:Can you even fucking imagine that?
Wow.
Guest:Whoa.
Guest:Have you got brothers and sisters?
Marc:I have a little brother, but she was 22, and that's just what people did.
Marc:22?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's young.
Guest:I mean, it's not, I guess, at the time, and it's perfectly fine.
Marc:But is it not at the time?
Marc:It's weird, because you look at pictures of people of my parents' generation when they're 22.
Marc:I looked at their wedding album recently, and they look 40.
Marc:They look like they're 40.
Guest:Do they have like a bob?
Guest:Beehive.
Guest:Beehive.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Some of that going on.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The thing I love about that generation as well, though, is certainly in Australia, there's a generation of particular like Italian, Greek family, older generation who just wear the same clothes that they were wearing when they hit adulthood.
Guest:And so they look older.
Guest:They always just look older because they're wearing...
Guest:Old clothes.
Guest:They're wearing clothes from the 50s, from the 60s.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or the style, wearing the suits, wearing the three-piece, the waistcoat and the hat.
Marc:Never changed.
Guest:Yeah, you just look older.
Guest:As a 30-year-old, you'd look like you were 60.
Marc:Yeah, at some point, my mother decided to go the other way and try to hold on to like 27 for, you know, to this day, you know, in her 70s.
Marc:I can't even go into it.
Guest:And singlet tops.
Marc:No idea what hair color she, I don't know what her real hair color is.
Marc:No idea.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:She might not even know.
Marc:Yeah, not now.
Marc:I don't think so.
Marc:But all right.
Marc:So do you feel do you feel like most of the stuff that you learned in terms of acting you learned before, like in high school?
Marc:I mean, do you still use I mean, I don't I know it's hard to talk about acting, but sometimes I ask people because you seem to have a specific approach to it.
Marc:And I always wonder because I know a lot of it's just natural.
Marc:But was there stuff that you learned from these people that were influential to you at that age where you sort of keep using?
Guest:I think the stuff I learned at high school was that you can get by on talent, but that it will run out at some point.
Marc:That is shit.
Marc:It's all very well.
Marc:When does that happen?
Marc:I thought that was going to last me the whole time.
Marc:That's all I've got.
Guest:You're peddling talent.
Guest:That's all.
Guest:Yeah, you feel like you've got to have a little technique.
Guest:It's just like becoming an adult, right?
Guest:You just have a bit of technique.
Marc:Yeah, I have that.
Marc:I repeat things over and over again.
Guest:Yeah, you know what you're doing.
Guest:You got it.
Guest:As a kid, you're just throwing at a wall and saying what sticks.
Marc:Well, you can get by on charm.
Marc:You can charm your way through most things other than mathematics.
Marc:Almost anything else you can charm your way through.
Guest:Maybe that's why I quit maths in year 10.
Guest:This is not working anymore.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You can't, you can't be like, come on.
Guest:I mean, I got to algebra.
Guest:I was like, I could do algebra.
Guest:There's some letters in this.
Guest:I could do this.
Guest:It's conceptual.
Guest:I couldn't do it.
Guest:It's creative.
Guest:I get this, but one of those times tables.
Marc:I couldn't, I couldn't do algebra.
Marc:I couldn't do it.
Marc:I couldn't, I could not do algebra.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How long did you try for though?
Yeah.
Guest:You just go, no, I'm out.
Marc:Well, I couldn't just quit.
Marc:I just almost flunked out of it.
Marc:I just couldn't wrap my brain around it.
Marc:Geometry I was good at because it had a shape and you had to make an argument.
Marc:You were sort of like, you get to prove that this is this.
Marc:I'm like, okay.
Marc:I did all right with that.
Marc:Because you're dealing with the shape.
Marc:I didn't know what the hell algebra was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I feel like interesting maths.
Guest:Perhaps if maths...
Guest:There's a couple YouTube channels, right?
Guest:That teach maths to adults that people have gotten really on board with.
Guest:So much so that I've never even bothered to look at them.
Marc:How is it going to help me?
Guest:It occurs to me that I might like them.
Marc:What are they doing it for?
Marc:Is this to keep their brain active?
Marc:The fuck do I need that for now?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because they're trying to not get by just on talent.
Marc:They're trying to get some technique.
Marc:How is that going to be out in the world being like, let me just work this out, an algebra problem.
Marc:You're saying they want me to go where to shoot what?
Marc:Okay, so that's X equals, yeah, no, not going to happen.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Use it at the store to pay for it.
Marc:But to be honest with you, like in terms of acting, I mean, I knew that I was bad at it.
Marc:But I also knew that I had a certain amount of raw talent.
Marc:But I didn't really start applying any real technique to it until later.
Marc:And it was sort of on the job training.
Marc:I'm a comic.
Marc:So that was my life for decades.
Marc:And then when I got a show, I knew I would suck.
Yeah.
Marc:For at least two seasons.
Marc:And then I kind of did.
Marc:And then the third and fourth season, I got the hang of it.
Marc:And then I got cast in this other show.
Marc:And I'm like, I know how to do this.
Marc:I can be this guy.
Marc:I'm not quite.
Marc:He's not exactly me.
Marc:But all I have to do is take out a couple of things that I always do out of my personality and be this guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You got it.
Guest:You should have just run the drama school I was at.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just here's what you do.
Guest:You are who you are.
Marc:And it's beautiful when you look at the character.
Guest:You can't change it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You look at the character and you see how that person, that character is different than you.
Marc:And then you make your adjustments and then you go forward.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But see, I feel like that's a really good way to just be a human being, right?
Guest:I can't apply it to being a human being at all.
Guest:A hell of a lot more empathy for people who have a different opinion or have a different religion or think differently.
Guest:You just take out the parts that aren't you and consider some parts of someone else that is different and then reapply them to you and go, oh, okay, that's how it feels to be somebody else.
Guest:Oh, I won't treat them badly.
Marc:Isn't that like basic?
Marc:That's how it feels to be a racist monster.
Marc:Oh, but yeah, I'm going to go ahead and judge them.
Guest:I'm thinking the racist monster should do that in the first place and think about what it's like to be somebody else.
Marc:I get it.
Guest:If you're doing it already, you're probably a step ahead.
Marc:Right.
Marc:This is a technique for the bad people that you're peddling.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Maybe we can get them all together and teach them this.
Guest:Just travel the world.
Marc:So what happens that you go to?
Marc:Was there any famous people that came out of your high school?
Guest:My high school?
Marc:It was a fancy drama high school, right?
Marc:Australia seems to manufacture fairly good actors and actresses.
Guest:We do seem to.
Guest:We seem to punch above our weight for population per capita.
Guest:Somehow we've got a lot.
Guest:I wonder why that is.
Marc:Have you thought about it?
Marc:Maybe you guys need to pretend just to get by because you're stranded down there.
Guest:We like telling stories.
Marc:You're Australia.
Marc:There's a there's a sort of inferiority complex to the entire country.
Guest:Oh, huge.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Huge.
Guest:The entire country.
Guest:And if we, you know, raise with a tall puppy syndrome, if you raise your.
Guest:Head above any kind of other puppies, you get chopped down.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Have you heard about tall puppy syndrome?
Marc:No, I've heard some variation on it.
Marc:I don't know if I've heard it called that, but I understand what you're saying.
Marc:Well, I mean, that would lend itself.
Marc:So instead of doing that, if you do something spectacular, like become a different person and entertain, you can't really be accused of that.
Guest:yeah but you can be and you but you could still be better than other people sure but if in as your regular person self if you say i'm better than everybody else then that's just you being arrogant and you should be put in check no but no but no but if you do it as a character like i'm this guy and i'm on stage oh yeah yeah yeah yeah
Guest:Yeah, you get to live out.
Marc:Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Marc:That's how you rise above in Australia.
Guest:Put on a show.
Guest:I'm this character.
Marc:You are an actor.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Do you see how I became that guy?
Guest:It was so believable.
Guest:It was almost like a cartoon character.
Marc:Crazy.
Marc:Sometimes I'm just in it right away.
Marc:It almost seems like I'd spent time working on that guy.
Guest:I can tell.
Marc:So what happened?
Marc:So you go to a fancy drama academy?
Guest:I did, yeah.
Guest:I went to NIDA in Australia.
Marc:NIDA?
Marc:Where's that?
Guest:It's in Sydney.
Guest:It's the National Institute of Dramatic Arts.
Marc:Is that the one that Cate Blanchett went to?
Guest:That's the one.
Guest:She did.
Guest:Indeed.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And is that the one she's involved with?
Marc:Doesn't she have a theater?
Marc:Like she started a theater?
Guest:She did.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She was artistic director with her husband of the Sydney Theater Company.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Which is our national flagship theater company.
Marc:So you went to that school.
Guest:Uh huh.
Marc:And that's where you learned the technique where you where you took all your raw talent.
Yeah.
Marc:And learned how to harness it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, you know, as any drama school, you sort of get beaten down, stripped bare emotionally and then built back up again and then have to do a lot more building and rebuilding once you've graduated.
Guest:But I had a, you know, I had a fine time at drama school.
Guest:I sort of in some ways flew under the radar.
Guest:really and others um was my first end of my first was it first term assessment i think uh i was it was a bad thing but i was told that i was too much of an enigma and then i needed to express myself more oh that's and that was me i think just being i prefer to just you know and see how the land lies but they read it as uh as being like you know like like you were hiding
Guest:Yeah, holding back.
Marc:And what did you do to stop holding back?
Marc:Did some teacher put you into some role where you had to be the crazy... I remember I took an acting class in college and he made me do a monologue.
Marc:I don't even remember what monologue it was, but he forced three or four other dudes in the class to hold me back while I tried to walk...
Marc:across the room doing this monologue this is some real barry stuff right yeah i don't know what the hell it was maybe it was just him entertaining himself uh-huh because i was full of rage yeah that's putting a real obstacle in your place yeah like i didn't like i don't have enough already like you know i'm not sure i'm not i'm manufacturing obstacles as we speak
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't remember ever being physically held down and asked to monologue, but we did other things.
Guest:I did play Irina in Three Sisters, which is the youngest of Three Sisters.
Guest:And I was like, yeah, it's totally me.
Guest:I know how to do this.
Guest:But I don't know if I did a very good job.
Guest:I do remember having to cry on stage, but I sneakily had an area backstage where I could go to just before, grab a switcher hanky that had Tiger Balm in it, and then come back.
Guest:You cheater.
Guest:Dab my eyes with Tiger Balm and then look as if I would cry you.
Marc:You're a cheater.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:No one knew, though.
Guest:It gave the effect of it.
Marc:Fuck it.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's acting.
Guest:You know, the whole thing's pretending.
Marc:You have to go too deep into it.
Marc:You know, just pretend.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you could cry now, right?
Marc:If they believe it, they believe it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Can you cry?
Guest:Oh, sure.
Marc:Really?
Guest:I mean, yeah, sure.
Guest:Sometimes.
Guest:If I'm in the mood.
Guest:I could cry.
Marc:I think I could cry.
Guest:Are you going to cry and cry now?
Marc:No.
Guest:No, I mean.
Marc:I probably could.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I mean, I think all of us could at some point in some ways.
Guest:You should.
Marc:Most of us could use a good cry, I think, really.
Guest:It's very good for catharsis.
Marc:It's very, very good.
Marc:How long was that program?
Marc:Four years?
Marc:uh three did you do sword fighting and everything fencing dancing how did you know we did it's been utterly useful uh has it no we no i just like it just seems that when there's a long drama program that i mean in order for it seems for them to extend it or for you to get your money's worth there's going to be some dancing and some and some sword play and some fencing yeah
Guest:Weirdly enough, I had done fencing at high school.
Guest:Not for very long, but I did do fencing at high school.
Guest:In the same kind of situation, I think, the drama department there were like, oh, well, they'll need to learn fencing and sword play for theater stuff.
Guest:And really, only men do that most of the time in the Shakespeare.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Guest:Because it's only really ever in Shakespeare, and it's only men who've used the swords in Shakespeare.
Marc:Now, what's your take on Shakespeare?
Marc:I mean, be honest with me.
Guest:He's got a couple good things.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:I think you'll go far.
Guest:He's been around a while, probably for a good reason.
Marc:I'm just sort of a dick about Shakespeare.
Marc:You don't like him?
Marc:No, I know he's great, but it's just hard for me to get through.
Marc:I don't really get it because I've not spent the time necessary to appreciate it.
Marc:It's a matter of listening.
Marc:That, you know, like you can give up with Shakespeare, especially if you're watching it.
Marc:And if it's not being done well, you could be like, I'm exhausted.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they are long plays.
Guest:But I do.
Guest:I've seen a lot.
Guest:And every time I see it, I hear something different and go, whoa, how extraordinary to create that piece of imagery and that part of the imagination.
Guest:And then in some ways, I love it because you skate off over there and you miss what's going on and then you have to come back.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you have to know the play to really appreciate it.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Because it's Shakespeare and you've probably seen it three times or read it five times.
Marc:I mean, most people who enjoy Shakespeare, whatever they're seeing, they've seen it done a dozen times and they've read it.
Marc:However, you know what I mean?
Marc:It's not there's not going to be any surprises other than how it's performed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But also the stories are still doing those stories.
Guest:It's still the person who wants power fucks over the person who's weaker.
Guest:And then that person comes back and kills them and then has something to do with their mother.
Guest:And, you know, there's like a whole the stories we just keep telling.
Marc:Well, that's what's great about succession.
Marc:It's definitely Shakespearean.
Guest:Sure, right, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, there's a different King Lear situation going on there.
Marc:Right, but even, like, what I didn't realize at the beginning of watching it was that the language is heightened.
Marc:It's like they're not, you know, it's so integrated into these characters and so well-conceived, but it's heightened language.
Marc:I don't feel that people talk to each other like that, necessarily.
Yeah.
Guest:No, but I feel like it's believable.
Marc:No, that's what I mean.
Marc:That's what I mean.
Marc:It's Shakespearean in that it's some sort of take on the language of power.
Marc:And it's contemporary and poetic, but it's not natural.
Marc:But it's very convincing.
Guest:And then it's hard for us – well, it's enjoyable for us to have to improvise in that world.
Guest:And I love that the family sort of talk to each other in this particular way, which I wonder how different it would be.
Guest:Because Shiv, for instance, I don't know what friendship group she has, if she has any friends.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But how she would talk to them –
Guest:At all.
Guest:What's what's what are her friendships outside of the family and outside of this way of communicating with these particular people?
Marc:They'd be like you'd be like hanging out with like the Trump daughter with Ivanka or somebody.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's got friends.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I guess.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Rich, aristocratic weirdos.
Marc:You're not there.
Marc:They're not.
Marc:It seems like whenever those people slum it, it's like Jeremy Strong's character.
Marc:It's like when they when they walk among the the the the the norm, the regular people, they're on drugs or doing something horrible.
Guest:Yeah, like that scene where he's like, I'm doing park coke.
Guest:I haven't done park coke for years.
Guest:Yeah, you're the ones keeping the industry going, really.
Guest:It's not the people in the park who are getting slapped with fines for it.
Guest:It's the people at the top who's keeping the industry going.
Marc:So how do you, but did you do Shakespeare?
Marc:A lot of Shakespeare.
Guest:I did.
Guest:Not his, but the first play I got cast in outside of drama school was King Lear.
Guest:And I played Cordelia and the fool did the, the, the double character with a little bit of editing you can do.
Marc:Who is King Lear?
Guest:John Gaydon who is a wonderful Australian actor who played it was the third time he played King Lear in his life and it was the first time he was actually the age the right age to play King Lear really I think the first time he played King Lear was when he was 28 sort of wild but
Guest:yeah that was oh and you know what i um had to cry on stage at the end no i told john i said i can't cry i'm having a lot of difficulty crying and i think she's meant to cry here and he said oh do you know what here's a little secret i've never cried on stage can't do it won't do it refuse to do it i can't do it and as soon as he said that somehow it like released me and went if john gaydon can't cry on stage i don't have to
Guest:Fuck that.
Guest:And then I could.
Guest:From then on, I could.
Guest:You could do it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not all the time, but there was a release.
Marc:Was it a trick he was playing?
Marc:Did you want to outdo him?
Guest:He could have been playing a trick, but I think he was being honest.
Guest:He's a pretty honest guy.
Marc:So once you started working, because I was wondering this, there is a way, I was under the impression, I was surprised that you were in Australia, and there was part of me that thought, does she live there?
Marc:But you live in New York, really.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I moved to the show.
Guest:I'm from Australia.
Guest:I've lived in Australia.
Marc:But could you live there and work in show business and just live in Australia?
Marc:Yeah, because it seems like there's a lot going on.
Guest:There is.
Guest:There is.
Guest:But the kind of work I wanted to do was overseas.
Marc:And what were you doing, like TV, a lot of TV?
Guest:No, I'd never done episodic TV.
Guest:This is the first episodic, long-running series TV that I'd done.
Guest:The TV I'd done earlier was short-form series, six episodes, miniseries, that kind of thing.
Marc:But you spent time in L.A., right?
Guest:Not heaps.
Guest:The longest I've spent in L.A.
Guest:was two months.
Marc:But did you go, I'm going to move to L.A.
Marc:and you moved here?
Guest:No, never.
Guest:Because I knew that it didn't suit me as a person.
Guest:I really felt like I wouldn't have been able to keep my mental health balanced if I moved to L.A.
Guest:in a, here's what I got, I'm going to try and make it in L.A.
Marc:What were you basing that on?
Marc:Why did you decide that about yourself?
Guest:Because it just wasn't me.
Guest:I just knew that if I got there and felt like I had to prove myself to a bunch of people that I didn't know, I knew that I would inevitably self-flagellate and think that I was shit.
Marc:Not only do you not know them, but they don't know anything.
Guest:sure but then how could you choose to disrespect the people who you want to respect you so I was like well I just won't put myself into that situation so I'll remain in Australia build a career here and then go when I'm and just and to be honest I didn't I just didn't say that I didn't live there and in Australia I didn't say that I didn't live there so I just you'll go when you're summoned
Guest:Sure.
Guest:When I'm good and ready.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I'm not going to if they don't want me, can't have me.
Marc:But I mean, but then how do you deal with I mean, you have to audition for things.
Marc:It seems like half of that, you know, horrendous parade of or the horrendous self judgment and insecurity comes from.
Marc:You know, auditioning.
Marc:It was it's specifically that there was such a broad spectrum of garbage that's produced in this city that, you know, you would feel compelled to sort of go out for everything and have your spirit trampled upon over time.
Guest:I would definitely have felt it was my job to go out and audition for subpar stuff just to be seen and be working, feeling like I was working.
Guest:And I did do that when I was in LA for two weeks or three weeks at a time.
Marc:You did some of that?
Guest:You felt it?
Guest:You got the feeling?
Guest:You're in a room full of people that you feel that you are completely...
Guest:um less than because they're far more beautiful far more blonde far more tan far more leggy far more whatever when you're waiting to go in you're waiting to go in or you read the brief and it says beautiful surfer and you're like why beautiful why not just like surfer really cool yeah why is it why is it some sort of visual aspect of this character that a writer has to put in right but then you call your agent you're like did you read the description of the person why are you sending me out on this
Marc:And they're like, well, they don't know really what they want, but it's written down.
Marc:But they don't know.
Guest:But do you ever have you ever had that where you read that thing, go, it's not me.
Guest:And the agent's like, we wouldn't have put you put you up for that if you weren't possibly able to be considered as that.
Guest:That's a lie.
Marc:That is a lie.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But how would how would you get me put up for something that you think that you're completely wrong for, even though an outside perspective might think that you're right for it?
Marc:It's your agents trying to make you think that they're working for you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I feel like that's quite the pessimistic view.
Guest:I mean, that's definitely, definitely crossed my mind.
Guest:But perhaps.
Marc:It's different now.
Marc:I'm just saying when you're starting out, I mean, you're kind of a known thing now.
Marc:You know, you're doing this.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Not really.
Marc:I mean.
Marc:I'm completely, like, I love your work based on, you know, the very little of this one character.
Guest:Well, thank you very much.
Marc:You're like, I'm going to go see other stuff.
Marc:And you're fun.
Guest:You realize how terrible I am.
Marc:No, you're a fun person to talk to.
Marc:I think you're very talented.
Marc:But I think not only are you just talented, but you have technique that you've applied to your talent.
Guest:Oh, sure.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:I do now.
Marc:What was this thing with Helen Mirren that she I just had her on?
Marc:Did she?
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:What a woman.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:But didn't she like you like help you out or give you a big nod?
Guest:Yeah, we did a film called Winchester with the Spearig brothers, and I had worked with them before in Predestination.
Guest:And I think she watched... They had been interested in me for a role in Winchester and went out to her for a role in Winchester as well.
Guest:And she watched Predestination as a spec just to see what they're up about and what they're like.
Guest:And apparently she had said, I'll do it if you cast Sarah as...
Guest:as the character as this other character um i want her in the film which is like oh my gosh swoon um and so i yeah i got to work with her and meet her and and do that and then it's wild did you have a lot of scenes together
Guest:We had a few, yes.
Guest:And I was able to just be on set while she was working as well, which was amazing.
Guest:And we had this scene, which was so silly.
Guest:Like there was an explosion and you're hiding from ghosts and it's a horror film.
Guest:And it was fun and silly.
Guest:And we stepped off and she goes, oh, actresses like us, we should be doing some check-ups, shouldn't we?
Guest:I was like, oh, you just said us?
Guest:What?
Guest:It's like, I'm going to have an aneurysm.
Marc:She likes doing goofy shit though.
Guest:she's great she was she's so great she the the thing that she had when when she got to melbourne that she all she asked for in terms of like a rider or what can production do for you uh she said i'd like a bike and a mikey card and a mikey card is our um our travel card like a like a metro card in melbourne that was it huh that's amazing you're just gonna jump on your bike ride around and catch the trams oh she's great when i grow up
Marc:But she did some weird experimental movies that were pretty sexy, weird things.
Marc:But she's still pretty vital.
Marc:Very charming.
Guest:Oh, she's wonderful.
Guest:And the thing that is, I think, why she has an enduring sex appeal that people talk about is that she's so herself.
Guest:There is an essence that is her that she's really tapped into.
Guest:And she's not afraid to be that and also be kind and
Guest:And generous with her time and and know her own boundaries.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She's like and she's I don't know.
Marc:I was completely excited about the whole thing.
Marc:So how does.
Marc:How are you picked out of Australia if you're not in L.A.?
Marc:How does the hand of show business work?
Marc:come to Australia and pick you.
Guest:Claw me out.
Guest:There's a thing called the internet and, uh, no, we self tapes.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:We, we can, we can put ourselves on, we can put ourselves on tape and send them to, I got a role on self tape.
Marc:Which one?
Marc:The Glow.
Marc:In Glow.
Marc:Sam Sylvia.
Guest:The Glow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Succession.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:That's what I did.
Marc:You never expect to get them on self-tape, do you?
Guest:No, you don't.
Guest:Which I think is, that's the key, right?
Marc:Well, yeah, because you don't give a fuck.
Marc:You're like, all right, let's do it.
Marc:So wait, so what happened?
Marc:How did they reach out to you?
Guest:Um, I had auditioned for Francine Maisler a couple of times before.
Marc:Casting agent, casting director.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So she thought of you?
Guest:I think, yeah, she wanted to cast me in something before and, and had, you know, in a small role in, um, Steve Jobs and, and, you know, I think had been, uh, had my back in, in terms of wanting to, to find something for me.
Guest:Um, and so this came through, um,
Guest:When I was in Australia, I didn't want to put a tape down because I thought it was out of my league and out of reach.
Guest:What?
Marc:For that character?
Marc:Yeah, and also HBO and just... You decided that you weren't going to self-tape because you weren't right for the role?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:That's the version of deciding not to go into the room and debase yourself.
Marc:But it wasn't even a room.
Marc:You were all alone.
Guest:What were you basing that on?
Guest:Self-confidence.
Guest:And...
Guest:I read it and was like, this is awesome, but obviously this is too awesome for me.
Guest:And I'm not this character.
Marc:Well, what did you think?
Marc:What was the disconnect from the character upon first reading?
Marc:Why did you think?
Guest:Well, she's wealthy.
Guest:She's beautiful.
Guest:She's sassy.
Guest:And they named a few people, like, think about this.
Guest:And I read that and went, well, that's not...
Guest:I'm doing this.
Guest:Not me.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes, absolutely.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there was another role for a film that I wanted to do.
Guest:It was a Linklater film.
Guest:And I was like, oh, I've got more chance doing that.
Marc:Which one?
Guest:Where'd you go, Bernadette?
Marc:Who talks you into doing the tape?
Guest:Jess Tovey, who's an actress in Australia, a friend of mine.
Guest:And she helped me put the self-tape down for that.
Marc:Did she shoot you?
Marc:Did she shoot the tape?
Guest:Yeah, we had a tripod set up on an ironing board in my house in like my place I rented in Melbourne.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she, yeah, it was like a case of like you got to, you might as well just put this one down because you've got your makeup on and you've just put the effort into setting up a tripod and an ironing board so you might as well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, so I did.
Guest:And I think it's the thing of going, I'm not going to get this, so whatever.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And that kind of indifference.
Marc:But you made some choices, though, right?
Guest:Well, yeah, yeah, sure.
Guest:And the kind of laissez-faire attitude, I guess, to going...
Guest:this will be fine yeah i'm not stressed about this because this is so unlikely um and even when i got uh told to come over for the um test deal since the last the final audition even then i was like oh i'm being used as a as a bargaining chip for someone who's far more famous has a much bigger profile oh you understand show business yeah yeah
Marc:You get a free trip to L.A.
Guest:to scare somebody else.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So going in with that attitude of thanks for the holiday to L.A.
Guest:for five days to see my friends.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Probably.
Guest:Yeah, I reckon that worked.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But.
Marc:What did you do when you came over?
Marc:Did you read with the other people?
Guest:Um, by chance, I ended up reading with Jeremy because, uh, I didn't know actually what happened, but I auditioned and then I had to, and I was waiting to do something else.
Guest:And then Francine said, Oh, if you want to read with Jeremy, he's going to come in and in an hour or half an hour.
Marc:Did he already have the part?
Guest:He didn't know.
Guest:So why don't you read with him?
Guest:Cause there's a scene that's with him and you can just, and then we also improvised terrifyingly and he was so much better at it than I am.
Guest:And I think again, that maybe works because Shiv just kind of keeps her mouth shut a lot and watches and that works for me.
Marc:And kind of, you know, you can see her thinking and then she talks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Great assessment of my acting.
Yeah.
Guest:thanks man um no but that genuinely is i think what she does she just thinks and then waits to talk yeah i know i think it's good unfortunately sometimes does does think talk without thinking and then you get like episode five and right and and then it's like but then all the episodes after that are like you know did she fuck up yeah yeah so jeremy what's that guy's story he seems to be in it
Guest:He is.
Guest:He's very in it.
Guest:He loves it.
Guest:He's in it.
Guest:He's committed.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Nice guy.
Guest:Lovely.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, this is the thing.
Guest:We're all great friends.
Guest:It's really such a lucky group of people to be a part of because I have enormous respect for the work that they're able to do that I feel I can't do what Kieran does.
Guest:I can't do what Nick does.
Guest:I can't do what Matthew does.
Guest:Maybe I can do what I do, but I look to them in the work that they do every day and find it inspiring.
Guest:And that does sound like I'm hyperbolic, but I do genuinely love to go to work with them because I find it challenging and good.
Guest:It seems like it.
Guest:And also that off screen, we all get along, which is nice.
Marc:It does seem like just by the nature of the material that, you know, it's got to be engaging as actors because, you know, everybody's sort of you're actually acting where everyone's trying to outdo each other and get a jump on each other.
Marc:So there is a competitive element to the characters.
Guest:Mm hmm.
Marc:So it must be very exciting to like almost daily to be in that like everybody thinks they're getting fucked by the person they're talking to and you know you've got to be in that so that must keep everything pretty lively.
Guest:It does.
Guest:And maybe it's the same thing about, you know, when you shoot a horror film, it's often one of the, some of the most fun scenes you get to do because the vibe on set is not, you know, ghosts and killing and murder and death.
Guest:It's all very light and fun to counter what's going on on screen.
Guest:And I think, yeah, we're all, all the machinations and planning and manipulations and being cunning is happening on screen, but off screen, it's, it has to be the opposite to balance it in a way.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The only one that can be sort of like that on screen is Kieran, it seems.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:It's just Kieran.
Marc:Yeah, he seems to be having a good time.
Guest:A little effervescent little imp who just marches in and goes, la-da-da, and then marches off and you go, wow, you just took a dump and it was amazing.
Guest:You can do anything and it's amazing.
Marc:he's he's something you're all you're all very good the guy who plays your husband what's his name Matthew oh my god boy he's just taken what a punching bag yeah what a king yeah yeah he's a lot of fun to work with is he British
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's Mr. Darcy.
Guest:He's played many different roles, but he's most known for, I think, the kind of upstanding, troubled, romantic lead male guy.
Guest:Male guy, sure.
Guest:But so playing this role, I think, for him, it's been a lot of fun and great for audiences to see him in a different light.
Marc:I've interviewed Cox.
Guest:Great comedy job.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, Brian.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's a mountain of experience there.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Did he do some Shakespeare for you as well?
Guest:Can he give you a monologue?
Marc:He's a living Shakespeare, that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:yeah itched on his face it's amazing to see like because he's always been good and always sort of this off to the side kind of guy but like i've yeah every time i'd see him in something i'd be like that guy's amazing going all the way back and i think he was the first hannibal lecter uh wasn't he yeah yeah and uh you know but he's like to find success at this point in his life with this the kind of this type of attention
Marc:Just to see a guy like that kind of be finally kind of relaxed into this amazing thing, it's kind of great.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That's what's kind of great about this industry, I think, as well.
Guest:It's not a regular... You can't... Like a sine wave.
Guest:You can't go, oh, you go up here and then you go down there.
Guest:It's...
Guest:It's unpredictable.
Marc:You can go off and down.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:If you're that good a character actor and stuff, if you can play all those different kind of roles.
Marc:I don't know how it works, but yeah, it seems like if you stay in the game and you've got the chops, you're going to get handed something eventually.
Guest:the amount of stuff he's done if you look at his yeah imdb or wiki or whatever it it boggles the mind how much that man is well he's one of those guys where you read it and you're like oh yeah that he was i remember yeah a lot of that like super troopers super troopers yeah yeah
Marc:Okay, hi.
Marc:Sorry to bug you, but this is the point where I talk to Sarah about the end of Season 2 of Succession.
Marc:And I've got to say, I really don't think we reveal anything specific, but I know some people hate spoilers of any kind, so consider yourself warned, okay?
Marc:Right now, I'm warning you.
Marc:Skip ahead 30 seconds, and you'll miss it.
Marc:All right?
Marc:Okay, now's your chance.
Marc:Hit the skip button, unless you don't want to, because here we go.
Marc:The end of that fucking season was so good, right?
Marc:Now I'm just going to be like a fan of the show.
Guest:That was crazy.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:I didn't know that was coming.
Guest:And I got to read it.
Guest:Until day of?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, it was handed out the day before.
Guest:No, I read it the day of the final read-through.
Guest:No one knew?
Guest:no I mean Jeremy apparently knew and Brian I think knew but I didn't and I it was like being handed out and I ran to my green room and I'm like flipping through the pages and getting through and loving and you know the script is like 85 pages long or something crazy and then got to the end and by myself in in my trailer going oh my god
Guest:What?
Guest:What's going to happen?
Guest:So, yeah, I want to get back and shoot season three to find out.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So you're telling me like because this is like this is like very sophisticated kind of dead on satire.
Marc:It is a comedy.
Marc:It's easy to forget that, right?
Guest:Structurally, really, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Just by nature of it, but it's heavy.
Marc:So you talked about improvising.
Marc:How much room is there really for that?
Marc:I think...
Guest:I think it comes down to what we were talking about before with the writers knowing what the series arc is going to be, knowing exactly what the characters are going to be doing, that nothing ever changes in the plot and nothing ever changes in the structure of the scene so much.
Guest:But there is improvising around how the line is said, what is said in the line.
Guest:Like, if you've got an insult here, then there's nine different versions of that insult you could choose.
Marc:Oh, so you don't come up with it necessarily?
Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, Kieran and the people who are better at it than I am certainly do.
Guest:But there's a few things.
Guest:Like, I love creating.
Guest:My favorite kinds of improvising is creating a memory that didn't exist before between the characters.
Guest:There was one.
Guest:We were talking about the ghost train, I think, in the second episode.
Guest:And Tom and Shiv were walking along and talking about something about the ghost train.
Guest:And then it just occurred to me to say, well, yeah, I get my first hand job on a ghost train.
Guest:in the ghost train and i keep walking in like that now is like it created a memory for shiv that that was that was the case that's not not in the script but sure why not why not she did yeah yeah and it's that kind of stuff i love and that doesn't influence plot or anything like that right but it's a detail it's a detail it's yours we get to improvise the details yeah it is yeah yeah yeah and that like uh not right for shiv
Marc:Alan Ruck, to see him again doing his... That's just a crazy, beautiful character.
Marc:Everyone's so good.
Guest:He's so wonderful.
Guest:He's another one who can just drop in a line or drop in a... He's great at having the different versions of lines as well.
Guest:We had one scene where...
Guest:Something like, yeah, she rode you.
Guest:It was talking about Rhea and how Rhea had fucked over shears.
Guest:And he just had like endless versions of, yeah, she rode you like, yeah, she just.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Kept going.
Guest:Kept going.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What was the sort of ticket into this?
Marc:What was the portal into this character?
Marc:What was the thing that you kind of locked into to make her work?
Guest:I think it was the dynamic in the siblings that made it work.
Guest:Like I grew up as the youngest of three and by a decent amount of age gap.
Guest:So I was able to sort of grow up and see what they did and the ways that they...
Guest:had success or failures in the family dynamic as well as their own sort of personal lives and then i was able to kind of go oh i'm gonna do that i'm not gonna do that yeah like someone doing it before you get a you get a chance to see how right you might do your own life as a blueprint and then i think shiv is kind of like that she's the youngest of of the four and i feel like she and her like her
Guest:parents like Logan and Caroline would have broken up at the similar kind of age I was when my parents left so just sort of what is it yeah like we were saying what is it of me that is the character and then fold in what did you add in the other part that oh the confidence the sort of the sass and the um
Guest:And the, the, the, um, she, I feel like she's good at, at, at, uh, pretending not to consider somebody else's point of view.
Guest:Like she'll just double down on a position.
Guest:She won't, um, she'll just blank somebody.
Marc:Right.
Guest:If they've got a, got a different way of thinking about it.
Marc:Steam roll right through it.
Guest:Steamroll.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And those were decisions you made that you can hang the character on.
Guest:This felt right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that she's got a difficulty being vulnerable.
Guest:She doesn't like to be vulnerable.
Guest:She doesn't want ever to be in that position where she's not in control and not in power.
Guest:And that's why she's with a lot of why she's probably with Tom.
Marc:But none of them really want to be vulnerable.
Yeah.
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, that's the whole trick to the language of the thing.
Marc:Everyone's avoiding vulnerability.
Marc:And it's just Jeremy's character by virtue of the fact that he's a complete fucking drug addict is the only one that can't help but be vulnerable.
Marc:And then that turns out to maybe be a trick.
Guest:I think maybe that's what it is about the show that people like in that.
Guest:Here's a family who seemed to have otherwise everything financially and tangibly, but they are also just as afraid of being vulnerable as everybody else.
Marc:Yeah, it's weird how the characters show their vulnerability when you start to learn about, you know, Kieran's sexual problems and Jeremy's drug problems and your... What is your... Commitment issues.
Marc:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's pretty solid that Tom in that episode 10 says, on our wedding night, you asked to have an open marriage.
Guest:That's rough.
Guest:That's like... Right, but also like that... You just got married and then she says, by the way...
Marc:that but that doofus that you fuck in the show like it makes it makes me mad that that's like i'm like come on shiv you're better than this yeah she could have she could have gone further afield you know yeah yeah well it's interesting yeah yeah it's a it's a great show so how does it feel is you excited about the emmy nomination that's got to be exciting
Guest:Yeah, that sounded unconvincing.
Marc:I think you're trying to be humble.
Marc:It's okay.
Marc:You can try.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Do you know what it is?
Guest:It's being so distant from it.
Guest:Because in the same way as feeling, how does someone from Australia break into American TV?
Guest:I feel like getting an Emmy nomination and being in lockdown in Melbourne is... Right.
Guest:feels close to a surrealist dream yeah well wait wait till this wait till you do the ceremony on zoom the whole thing no i got an email asking like what would i be comfortable with just because i think they're planning like what are they going to do and it's so you know it'll be it'll be streamed i'm i in what context who knows but oh it's so sad you're gonna have to like who's gonna get you how are you gonna get a dress
Guest:Do I want to dress up?
Guest:No, I think you should do it like this.
Guest:Right now.
Guest:No, I'm not, but close enough.
Guest:I'm in my prison greys.
Guest:I've got my grey trackies and my grey t-shirt on.
Marc:Do it like this.
Marc:I think it's the way to go.
Marc:And you should be eating.
Guest:I think so.
Marc:While you're waiting to see whether you won.
Guest:A Slurpee.
Guest:Great.
Guest:Really loud, annoying.
Guest:Food around my face.
Marc:I think you'll be nominated for another Emmy for your Emmy performance.
Yeah.
Guest:And then maybe I'll get to go to the ceremony.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, but you're excited.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:How could you not be?
Guest:Reading a name in a group of those women is like... Who else was it?
Guest:Helena Bonham Carter, Meryl Streep, Fiona Shaw, Tani Newton, Julia from Ozark, Ghana.
Marc:Oh, she's good, yeah.
Guest:Laura Dern.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:Jesus.
Wow.
Guest:I don't have no right to be in that group.
Marc:He's just making these names up.
Guest:He's just listing just the best people in the world.
Guest:I'm like, yeah, but they can't all be in one category.
Marc:Like, yeah.
Marc:That's exciting.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That'll be exciting to see you all in little squares in your different environments.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We get to see into people's homes.
Marc:I don't know how they're getting, I don't know what the plan is.
Marc:Maybe they'll give everybody a backdrop.
Guest:and stream they yeah like a camera crew could come or they'll take you to because also we'll have just come out of lockdown maybe four days five days beforehand because our lockdown at the moment is is you can't have anyone to your house you can't go anywhere you can't have anyone over um and that lasts until september 13 i think we've got another six weeks really so that how bad was the fucking outbreak
Guest:Not that bad comparatively.
Guest:We were on 100 or so cases a day.
Guest:And we went into the first lockdown end of July.
Guest:And then they were getting 700 cases a day in Victoria.
Guest:So they doubled down on that and said, you can't leave your house at all, except for an hour of exercise or if you have to go to work elsewhere or study.
Guest:And so now about six weeks is until the 13th, I think, of September.
Marc:So it's not out of control.
Marc:They're just doing the right thing.
Guest:They're just trying to do the right thing.
Guest:It's compulsory to wear masks, and everyone does, which is nice.
Guest:There's a few people who tried to make it political and against freedom.
Marc:Yeah, you've got some dummies there, too.
Guest:We do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We do.
Guest:But for the most part, people are wearing – I just don't understand.
Guest:Because I had like a – I sneezed twice and was like, what if I kill somebody?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's not like I'm afraid of other people.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm afraid of hurting somebody else.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So why would you not wear a mask if it could be possible?
Marc:Oh, because those people are selfish monsters.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And they can't think that way.
Guest:I don't understand.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's a problem.
Marc:It's like you try to be empathetic and you realize, like, I'm hitting a wall here because I don't understand the humanity of what you're fucking doing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's a very individualist kind of approach.
Guest:And I just really don't get on board with that for humanity.
Marc:Well, someday you'll have to play a mask protester and find the heart in there.
Guest:Yeah, that could be fun.
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:I don't understand them.
Marc:So did you eat breakfast?
Marc:What happens now?
Marc:You're up?
Marc:It's early?
Guest:I ate breakfast.
Guest:I ate leftovers for breakfast.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:I roasted some eggplant and roasted some capsicum and then put it on toast with an egg this morning.
Guest:I was very impressed with myself.
Marc:Wow, you roasted the eggplant last night?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:And ate it last night with the capsicum last night.
Guest:Oh, red pepper.
Guest:Red pepper, yeah.
Guest:And then had it.
Marc:Eggplant's tricky, man.
Guest:No.
Guest:I always thought eggplant was tricky, too.
Guest:It's not.
Guest:Just cut it up.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Two centimeter rounds in the oven at 220 degrees Celsius.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I don't know what that is, Fahrenheit.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:35 minutes.
Marc:Salt.
Guest:Bit of oil on top.
Guest:Oil.
Guest:That's it.
Marc:Huh.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The little eggplant or the big eggplant?
Guest:That size?
Guest:Big?
Guest:Is that regular?
Marc:It didn't get tight and spongy?
Guest:Soft and yummy.
Guest:You believe me?
Marc:How many times have you done it?
Guest:This is like my fourth, fifth.
Guest:I'm just sharing it because I'm not a cook and I've really learned to cook this year because of this pandemic.
Guest:I've never been interested.
Guest:It's always kind of bored me.
Guest:Cooking for myself, you know, whatever.
Guest:Or I would be cooking for other people and I'd get too adventurous and put way too many things in and it would taste like shit.
Guest:But now, for some reason, I have time to fail.
Guest:I have tried and I'm finding ways to feed myself.
Guest:Well, it's only four times.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:You're feeding yourself like an adult.
Marc:Well, I'm very proud of you.
Marc:Good for you.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Thanks.
Guest:Thanks.
Guest:I'm drinking like an adult and feeding like an adult.
Marc:Well, good for you.
Marc:It's about time.
Marc:We've all been waiting.
Marc:Well, good luck with the break a leg.
Marc:Hope you win an Emmy.
Marc:I'm very happy we talked.
Marc:I love the show.
Marc:I love your work.
Marc:It was great getting to know you.
Guest:Yeah, thank you.
Marc:Maybe I'll see you in real life someday.
Guest:Yeah, that'd be great.
Marc:All right, take it easy.
Guest:You too.
Marc:Well, that was very enjoyable.
Marc:What a sweet person.
Marc:I'd like to meet her in person.
Marc:Both seasons of Succession are streaming on HBO Max and HBO On Demand.
Marc:She's also in the HBO Max original movie, An American Pickle, with Seth Rogen, who I think is back on good terms with the world's Jews.
Marc:And now I will play guitar for you.
Marc:As usual.
Thank you.
guitar solo
Marc:Boomer!
Marc:Monkey!
Marc:La Fonda!
Live!