Episode 1145 - Ice-T
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it come on get in it get in the fucking present
Marc:Let's do it.
Marc:Let's be here.
Marc:Be here now.
Marc:Whatever.
Marc:Whatever.
Marc:Eckhart Tolle.
Marc:This is it.
Marc:I'm living this second.
Marc:This second.
Marc:This second.
Marc:I'm in the now.
Marc:Now I'm not.
Marc:Now it's... Ugh.
Now!
Marc:It's true, though, man.
Marc:Hey, all you got is this moment, right?
Marc:And then the one after it, and then the shitty one after that, and then like, uh-oh.
Marc:What about seven moments from now?
Marc:That's going to be trouble.
Marc:But see, that way of thinking is not correct.
Marc:Stay in the moment.
Marc:Fine.
Marc:What's happening, people?
Marc:Today, Ice-T is on the show today.
Marc:That was something.
Marc:I was very... I made myself very crazy about that, about interviewing Ice-T, because...
Marc:He's fucking iced tea.
Marc:Doesn't he seem intimidating to you?
Marc:Doesn't he seem like when you picture iced tea, like, all right, he's iced tea, but that might be an intense, intimidating guy to talk to.
Marc:And I made myself fucking crazy for two days.
Marc:Listened to the new Body Count record, some of his other older records.
Marc:Dug in a little bit.
Marc:Yeah, I'd forgotten.
Marc:Wasn't surprised.
Marc:I'd forgotten, you know, that there were a couple of icy albums that I listened to the fuck out of when I was a younger man.
Marc:Certainly that first Body Count record and then that Freedom of Speech record.
Marc:Because I was going through this stuff and I'm like, not only did I have this record, I listened to it sort of constantly for a while.
Marc:Both of those records.
Marc:But I also had this weird experience where I never met him before, but we shared some space together, Ice-T and I, back in the 90s, the mid-90s.
Marc:I think it was like 96, 97.
Marc:I was on a trip to Spain with my first wife.
Marc:It was a honeymoon that we'd put off, and we were in, I think we were in Barcelona, Spain at an aquarium.
Marc:And Ice-T was there with his, I guess, his wife and daughter, young kid.
Marc:And they were walking through the aquarium in front of me and Kim.
Marc:And I told the story about this on Conan O'Brien.
Marc:on December 10th, 1997.
Marc:So it must've happened shortly before that, you know, within a year or two, I can't track things, but I'll share that.
Marc:I'll share my telling of that story about being at the aquarium, walking behind Ice-T and his family because I wanted to.
Marc:This was a, that Conan O'Brien appearance.
Guest:I'm walking behind Ice-T, and we're going through the exhibits, okay?
Guest:And for some reason, at each tank, he would read the description.
Guest:And I guess the moral of this story, once I get into it, is that it's not what you say, it's how you say it.
Guest:Because I'd be standing right behind him, and he'd be reading it, and he'd go, Coastal Marsh Community.
Guest:I don't know, just the way he said, community.
Guest:I'm looking in the tank for social injustice.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like, oh, the mackerel are keeping the guppies down, man.
Guest:You know?
Guest:And then, like, the next tank, we're sitting there at the next tank, and I'm dying.
Guest:I think it's the greatest thing in the world.
Guest:He goes, look at that big-ass crab.
Guest:So we move from social injustice to, oh, just an observation.
Guest:He's the guy that I would want to hear narrate, like, on your way through the museum.
Guest:Everything, everything.
Guest:Just a menu.
Guest:Corned beef and eggs, please.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Coastal marsh community.
Marc:I'll bring that up to ice when I talk to him in a few minutes.
Marc:So, you know, the bottom line is the point I guess I'm trying to make is that after all my insanity, after all my flailing insecurity and fear, it was great.
Marc:It was great to talk to him.
Marc:He was up for it.
Marc:And I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Marc:And I think he had a nice time, too.
Marc:So they had this piece in the New York Times on Saturday, an interview that I did with David Itzkoff, who just wanted to interview me about my relationship with Lynn.
Marc:And they put that in the paper.
Marc:I guess what really sort of interests him initially outside of, you know, our creative relationship was me experiencing and going through this grief publicly and
Marc:It's a choice I made.
Marc:And I've just been so, you know, the heavy heartedness about that and the sort of emotional roller coaster every day.
Marc:But like I've been feeling physically ill for months, really.
Marc:And every few weeks I think it's COVID and every once in a while I feel like it's allergies.
Marc:But now it's just gotten terrible and I'm just...
Marc:Every day I'm just queasy and the weight of the fucking world, you know.
Marc:And it's not so much... I mean, I'm fighting depression like everybody else is.
Marc:I'm dealing with grief.
Marc:But the truth of the matter is, is that...
Marc:You know, even before Lynn died, I was getting up every morning wondering if my fucking cat was alive or what condition my cat was in.
Marc:And that's ongoing.
Marc:You know, this is still going on and it's just draining me.
Marc:It's killing me.
Marc:And he's very bad right now.
Marc:And I just, you know, I know we've covered this before, but it's like it's it's going to happen.
Marc:I didn't realize that's probably what's making me so physically, outside of grief, pandemic stress, isolation, sadness, fear, is that every day, every day I wake up at 5.30, 6 in the morning and wonder if my cat's alive, if today's the day, every day.
Marc:But I will tell you this, I still have had the energy and
Marc:You know, to lose my shit at my father.
Marc:I'm okay with him now.
Marc:But, you know, I did find time to call my dad a fucking dummy for political views that were shallow and just sort of like his brain is some sort of recording device.
Marc:And it only records when the information connects to some sort of anger.
Marc:And he's sitting at home.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:I don't know, there's nothing I can do to stop at watching, not Fox News, he's watching the dumber, more propagandistic one, the
Marc:One America News Network, because he, I don't know, he thinks it's news, but someone's guiding him.
Marc:He's surrounded with Republican people and his new family.
Marc:And I just lost my shit.
Marc:My dad was what I thought to be an intelligent guy, you know, a sophisticated guy, but not with politics.
Marc:And it turns out maybe not with anything, you know, other than what his focus was, which was medicine at a time.
Marc:So I thought we could engage around a little bit of a discussion, get off of, you know, whatever his problems are, whatever my sadness is.
Marc:And so I asked him as a doctor, you know, what he thought about this pandemic situation and how it's being handled.
Marc:He says, well, clearly we've got to get back at China.
Marc:And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about?
Marc:What about what we're dealing with?
Marc:Well, I mean, it came from there.
Marc:What has that got to do?
Marc:Lost my shit.
Marc:Literally lost my shit.
Marc:Called my father a fucking idiot.
Marc:And then I felt bad because he's old.
Marc:Now, when Lynn was alive and when I was more engaged and grounded and enjoying life before the pandemic, before...
Marc:You know, I had a certain amount of ability to sort of compartmentalize and manage, you know, whatever I'd put on the back burner or let go of.
Marc:But obviously, not totally.
Marc:It's hard to let go of everything about your parents.
Marc:And, you know, on some level, I should be excited that they're still alive.
Marc:But I don't know.
Marc:I felt bad about it.
Marc:And I called him.
Marc:It wasn't quite an apology.
Marc:I think I said, I don't really care whether or not I talk to you at all.
Marc:And he goes, well, I do.
Marc:And I'm like, all right, well, let's try and figure this out then.
Marc:And I said, it's when you talk about that stuff in such a shallow way, in such an unsourced way,
Marc:It would be one thing if you had a political point of view, which you don't.
Marc:Because right after I hung up on him and called him a fucking idiot, he left a message.
Marc:Look, I don't care.
Marc:I don't care who wins.
Marc:I don't give a shit.
Marc:I don't really give a shit.
Marc:I don't give a shit about Pelosi and this Fauci business.
Marc:So he's still reeling off these talking points that have recorded on the anger tape in his brain.
Marc:But disconnected things and telling and saying, like, I hope I hope Biden wins.
Marc:I don't give a shit.
Marc:But I didn't call him back.
Marc:And now I finally come back.
Marc:I said, look, you know, when you talk like that, it's just it's embarrassing.
Marc:And it makes me lose respect for you.
Marc:Because it's it's shallow and dumb.
Marc:And it makes me angry that I have to sort of relive this embarrassment, this lack of respect, and also to find out that, you know, maybe in your old age or maybe always you just are not a sophisticated thinker.
Marc:And now, look, I'm more than capable of indulging other opinions on some level.
Marc:It's aggravating.
Marc:It makes me angry.
Marc:But, I mean, if I can see them track it back to, you know, a point of view, but he doesn't have one.
Marc:Completely reactive.
Marc:So I told him that and, you know, he got it.
Marc:But, you know, we'll see.
Marc:Maybe I'm too selfish, too.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But that's my story.
Marc:Bill Burr came by the other day, sit and talk about the world, about life, about helicopters, about grief, about children.
Marc:And he ate some cake, thank God.
Marc:You know, Bill's a pretty healthy guy.
Marc:I didn't know how it was going to go, but he ate the cake.
Marc:Bill, he ate the cake.
Marc:Then I sent him the fucking recipe.
Marc:It was nice.
Marc:I hadn't seen Bill in a long time, not since before the pandemic probably.
Marc:And, you know, it was nice to sit down and catch up.
Marc:All right, so listen.
Marc:We got Ice-T coming up.
Marc:His most recent album with body count is called Carnivore.
Marc:It was released back in March, right as the pandemic hit, so he wasn't able to tour with it.
Marc:Talk about that a little bit.
Marc:He also re-released a new studio edit of their 2017 song, No Lives Matter, in support of the anti-racism movement.
Marc:And this is me and Ice-T coming up.
Music
Guest:Hey, what's up?
Guest:Hi, how's it going, man?
Guest:What's up, boss?
Guest:How you doing?
Guest:I'm okay, you?
Guest:You know, I'm probably in the same state everybody else is, just chilling at home.
Marc:Chilling at home and terrified?
Guest:Just being careful, super cautious.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It gets scary because anything you do, you get home and you're like, oh, fuck, what the fuck did I just do?
Marc:You go outside for one second, some asshole walks by, and you're like, oh, God damn it.
Guest:Well, you know what it is?
Guest:I got like my quarantine team, like the people I'm used to being around.
Guest:You know, my wife, sister, kids, those people.
Guest:I'm comfortable with them, but when someone else enters our zone, I feel like they're an alien.
Guest:I'm like, I don't know you.
Guest:I don't know what you've been breathing, what pussy you've been eating.
Guest:I don't know what you've been doing.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, like I've been going.
Marc:So you're not going to the store or nothing?
Guest:I try to send my wife as much as possible.
Guest:She's much younger than me.
Guest:She doesn't mind wearing the mask and doing the whole thing.
Guest:I try to make essential runs.
Guest:I do a lot of drive-thrus at the fast foods and stuff.
Guest:I do a lot of that stuff, but I'm not really trying to catch it, to be honest.
Guest:I've had enough people I know close to me die.
Guest:Coco's father just got out of the hospital after a month bout with it.
Guest:And- Oh my God.
Guest:Yeah, he was a non-masker.
Guest:He's a guy that rides Harleys, shoots guns and wouldn't put on a mask and it got him and put him on his back.
Guest:And now he has probably, well, he has to be on oxygen now indefinitely.
Guest:It damaged his lungs to where his lungs won't operate.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, let me ask you a question.
Marc:Let me ask you a question about a guy like that in the sense that, like, now, does a guy like that, is he too proud to realize he was fucking stupid?
Marc:And is he going to, like... Because I see these cats who...
Marc:You know, they're they're against the mass.
Marc:They say it's a scam.
Marc:It ain't real.
Marc:It ain't this.
Marc:Then they get it.
Marc:And then all of a sudden they just shut up where there's a teachable moment there where they can say, you know, I fucked up.
Marc:This is real.
Guest:You know, he totally changed in the hospital.
Guest:That'll do it, right?
Guest:You see, God... He totally changed.
Guest:He told everybody to wear a mask.
Guest:He admitted he made a big, huge mistake.
Guest:Because when he caught it, not only did he catch it, his son caught it and his two sisters caught it.
Guest:And I talked to the nurses
Guest:in the hospital he was in and they were like, you know, sooner or later they figured out who he was, you know?
Guest:Cause we definitely went in there and tried to make, you know, at this point when people are getting close to die, you're trying to get every bit of juice you can.
Guest:So I'm like, you know, this is my father-in-law.
Guest:Next thing you know, he's on the news.
Guest:I'm like, all right, well now you're a priority patient.
Guest:You don't, they're not going to want to let you die, right?
Guest:So I'm just trying to save his life.
Guest:And when the nurse, she told me, she said,
Guest:Everybody in here, 90% of these people are non-believers until they're here.
Guest:So she said most of the people catching it are catching it just from negligence.
Marc:No kidding.
Marc:And you wonder, is that going to change their entire political point of view or just the one thing around this thing, you know?
Guest:Well, I mean, I don't really know, you know,
Guest:All I know is that it is a life-changing situation.
Guest:You know, anytime you say, hey, this can't happen to me and it happens to you, you got to be a real idiot to kind of try to keep riding it out, you know?
Guest:So there were three days in, they were calling us
Guest:with that next-to-kin call, like, we wanna make sure that we can put him on the ventilator if we need to.
Guest:And Coco was crying, and it was pretty much like he was gonna die.
Guest:And he lost like 40 pounds, he's now real frail.
Guest:And this was like a big, big husky dude, you know, like,
Guest:But that's why I don't have a problem speaking on it, because people look at me, they go, Ice-T, you a tough guy, this, that, and the third.
Guest:And I'm like, yeah, but this ain't nothing you can be tough against.
Guest:You know, your gangster can't help you with this.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:And one dude wrote me, he said, well, dude, like you said, you terrified, you sound scared.
Guest:I said, well, dude, I'm scared of your contaminated breath.
Guest:That's what I'm afraid of, okay?
Guest:So you wanna call me scared?
Guest:Cause I can't whoop that ass.
Guest:This is my point with Ice-T.
Guest:I lived through so much shit.
Guest:I can't let this thing kill me, you know?
Guest:When all I gotta do is stay in the house and beware.
Guest:And one of my boys, he had just came back from the penitentiary.
Guest:He did 26 years.
Guest:named Spike.
Guest:So I'm talking to him.
Guest:I'm like, dude, how you doing on quarantine?
Guest:He goes, quarantine?
Guest:I was in the hole for two years.
Guest:In the hole.
Guest:He said, I got my wife here.
Guest:I got Netflix.
Guest:I got Ahmed.
Guest:You better get some perspective.
Marc:He doesn't have to go anywhere.
Marc:He knows how to not go anywhere.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:He says, you better sit your ass down.
Guest:I take heed.
Marc:Well, I think also it's this thing about being healthy or not being healthy is I don't think anybody really knows what they're made of inside genetically or whatever.
Marc:You could be healthy as shit.
Marc:And if your blood's a little fucked up or you got a little something in your heart, you don't know what this virus is going to hook up to and kill you, how it's going to do it.
Guest:You might not know you have any type of thing.
Guest:My friend Scarface, who's a singer from Ghetto Boys, he's healthy.
Guest:It took him down.
Guest:He said, I felt like I had 300 pound weights on my chest and I coughed so much.
Guest:It felt like I was coughing razor blades.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:It destroyed his kidney.
Guest:He's on dialysis now.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:younger cat he's in he's like you know late 40s 50s a dude on law and order that i work with daily died right out the gate he was 45 years old dominican cat you know people are just stupid i think more people will start masking as more people know somebody personally exactly yeah every no one's going to be untouched by this thing they're going to know a guy whose dad or his brother or his uncle or their grandfather whatever everyone's going to know somebody
Marc:That went down.
Marc:It's terrible.
Guest:You know what I tell people and people ask me because, you know, I've been trying to been the voice of reason for so many years.
Guest:I tell people like this.
Guest:No matter your conspiracy theories, your 5G, where it came from, who made it, why it's here, mind control, new world order, all that.
Marc:Illuminati.
Guest:Illuminati.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The virus itself is real.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Now I don't care where it came from.
Guest:I don't care all, but the virus itself is real.
Guest:So fuck around with it if you want to.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it's, and I say, we'll have years to figure out where it came from.
Guest:Is it, is it a Fauci and Bill Gates conspiracy to sell us the,
Guest:Does that matter?
Marc:I'm going to go no on that one.
Guest:No, I don't care.
Guest:My thing is, I was in the military, right?
Guest:People start shooting.
Guest:The first thing you do is you take cover.
Guest:Then you figure out where they're shooting from.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So right now we're in a take cover moment.
Marc:You know, and also like speaking of that before.
Marc:Well, there's a couple of things.
Marc:The new album's great.
Marc:I like it.
Marc:I like the record.
Marc:I like that song.
Marc:Point the Finger.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:I mean, because it's interesting to listen to the the nature of how you present issues has evolved.
Marc:And, you know, even when you're talking angry, there's a little more there's a little more balance and maturity in it.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:Even on the song like, you know, when I'm gone, it seems like an angry song.
Marc:But you're basically saying love me now while I'm here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that happened after I watched Nipsey die, another young L.A.
Guest:rapper who actually basically kind of lived my life.
Guest:He went to the same high school I went to.
Guest:He came from the same neighborhood, you know, and he's the new generation.
Guest:And when he died, they sold out the Staples Center in two hours.
Guest:for his memorial service.
Guest:I'm like, but would he sold it out two hours for a concert live?
Guest:No.
Guest:So what are y'all doing?
Guest:Like, why do you have to die for everybody to show up for you?
Guest:You know, and
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and Amy Lee came in on that song and killed it.
Guest:I had no idea how Vince got Amy to do that song.
Guest:My bass player had to connect and goes, look who I got on this song.
Guest:I'm like, that's not the Evanescence chick.
Guest:And he's like, yeah, I'm like, oh, and she killed it because it sounded great.
Guest:She said she had went through.
Marc:somebody passing too early in her world yeah and so you know even though we're two different people we're both singing from the heart in that song and that's why it makes it work yeah you know it's got a lot of weight to it in terms of the rhythm and and the the nature of just you know metal in general but but there's a lot of heart and and and sensitivity to the lyrics themselves it's beautiful it's difficult to do
Guest:sincere songs when you're not sincere.
Guest:So if something happens to you, like one of your boys dies or something, I could write a heavy song about this virus right now because I've been through it.
Guest:But that's where they say some of the best art comes from pain.
Marc:Well, yeah, that's the idea.
Marc:And then you get people that are like, well, maybe I don't got enough pain in my life.
Marc:And then they start to hurt themselves.
Marc:And then, you know, you got to be talented, too.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I haven't gone down that road.
Guest:Like I'm trying to self inflict.
Marc:Hey, no, no, you don't need to.
Marc:Here's I got a funny story for you because I actually we never met.
Marc:But I told the story about you on Conan O'Brien.
Marc:I'm a comedian, you know, so I did.
Marc:I was on Conan back in December of 97.
Marc:All right.
Marc:And the story was I was in Barcelona, Spain on a honeymoon and
Marc:And at some point must have been earlier that year.
Marc:And we went to the aquarium, me and this woman.
Marc:And you were at the aquarium in Barcelona, Spain with one of the kids and a wife.
Marc:And you were just looking at the fish.
Marc:Does this make sense?
Marc:Do you remember doing that?
Guest:It makes absolute sense.
Marc:So I'm walking behind you because you're reading off the information cards and you're reacting to what's in the tank.
Marc:And I was like, we got to follow this guy because this is the best tour I've ever been on.
Guest:And you know what, though?
Guest:When you travel, I was probably on tour.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've never gone to any foreign country just to hang out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've always gone because I was on tour or something.
Guest:And if you don't take advantage of that trip and go see some sites, you know what I'm saying?
Guest:You lose your mind.
Guest:So I was in, I'll tell you another funny story.
Guest:I was in, um,
Guest:Ireland.
Guest:I love Ireland.
Marc:You like it?
Guest:It was cool.
Guest:See, I like every place I go because every place I go, I got a fan base.
Guest:So I go from the hotel to people that love me.
Guest:I go right from the hotel to a group of people that can't wait to see me.
Guest:I'm always going to love the place.
Guest:People are like, oh, well, it's fucked up there.
Guest:I'm like, I'm not even there long enough to know.
Guest:I'm just...
Marc:I'm just there for the love, and then I'm out.
Guest:I'm out.
Guest:So we went to a zoo.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And a fucking gorilla almost tried to kill me.
Guest:Me and Ernie C were looking at this gorilla, and it was a big plexiglass thing.
Guest:And the gorilla was maybe, say, 40 feet away.
Guest:And the gorilla took one look at me.
Guest:I might have been the first black person it saw.
Guest:And it beat its chest.
Guest:And it came, and it rushed, and it tried to hit the glass.
Guest:Blam!
Guest:I'm like, oh, my God, that glass wasn't there.
Guest:That gorilla would just kill me.
Guest:So I almost died by gorilla in Ireland.
Marc:There's definitely not a lot of black people in Ireland.
Marc:That I noticed.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, you know what?
Guest:I mean, everywhere you go, everybody, you know, you're not there long enough to understand the politics.
Guest:You're not there long enough to understand the bad stuff.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And I never go to other countries and speak on their particular politics.
Guest:That's a sucker move to talk about them and then get on a plane and leave.
Guest:So I relay it to our politics and they usually can find the parallels to what's going on in their country to what's going on.
Marc:That's smart because like, yeah, as soon as you just even if you make a comment because you observe something without really knowing much about it because you're an American, you're they're going to they're going to drag you through the press because you're the American that came in and made a comment.
Guest:I did not know how serious the IRA was.
Guest:I didn't, I heard of it.
Guest:So I'm over there and I make a comment about the IRA and a guy goes, don't say that ice.
Guest:Don't say that.
Guest:You can't say that.
Guest:They'll arrest you.
Guest:Like the IRA is the terrorist like situation.
Guest:Like he goes, you don't know who the IRA is.
Guest:It could be me.
Guest:It could be the guy next to you.
Guest:I'm like, let me just shut the fuck up.
Guest:Like you say, I'm not as educated about it.
Guest:Another place we went, we went to Spain.
Guest:Do you know what the Basque country is?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah.
Marc:It's a whole different type of people up there.
Marc:San Sebastian, it has that whole region, the Basque region.
Guest:Yeah, so we booked a show and we didn't know we booked it with them.
Guest:And we got off the airport and these dudes were like covered up and these dudes were like, you know, okay, looking around and stuff.
Guest:We jumped in the truck, we're on some off-road shit and we end up out in the woods and stuff like that.
Guest:And they're like, I'm like, so where's the promoter?
Guest:They're like, oh, he got arrested last week.
Guest:I'm like, yo, who are you?
Guest:Who are you guys?
Guest:And so we get on the stage, it's like this big tent
Guest:Yeah, we're playing and they go, don't say Spain.
Guest:I'm like, well, I'm in Spain.
Guest:No, you're not in Spain.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Oh, shit.
Guest:Like, so I've been I've been in some interesting events.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you and you don't know what you're getting into sometimes till you get there.
Marc:No one's briefing you.
Marc:It's not like you travel with a with a an advisor.
Marc:You know, they're going to give you the layout of the politics of the place.
Guest:yeah yeah you're going behind the lines and stuff but they treated us good too we had a good time and like then they dropped us off about a block away from the airport said okay you're on your own make a run for it it's funny because i just i was going through my shit i was i'm trying to set up my office and i actually found a copy of that uh
Marc:that Iceberg Slim book, The Pimp Book, and I lent it to somebody, and I was thinking about it, and I was reading up on your stuff.
Marc:That book, I don't remember when I bought it.
Marc:They had reissued the book.
Marc:But why did that book have such an impact on you and some other rappers, The Iceberg Slim?
Guest:Well, I actually named myself after Iceberg Slim.
Guest:The ice part of Ice-T comes from Iceberg.
Guest:When I was in high school,
Guest:the coolest kids in the school were reading Iceberg Slims and Donald Goins books.
Guest:Those crime novels.
Guest:And they used to carry them in their pockets in the back of their 501 jeans.
Guest:A paperback could fit right in that pocket.
Guest:And it was almost part of their dress code.
Guest:They would wear the... So I'm watching, what are these books these players are carrying?
Guest:So I got into it
Guest:don't know it's like to read an iceberg slim book is almost like reading music because of the lingo right if anyone's ever read it the way they talk and the way it flowed it wasn't like reading a normal novel it had so much and then me being in the hood knowing about the Cadillacs the pimps and the players and the hustlers I'm right back in Jersey where
Guest:I was in L.A.
Guest:at the time.
Marc:Oh, OK.
Guest:I'm reading this dude.
Guest:He's talking about a captain named Abel took us to the table.
Guest:An hour was spent over cream dements.
Guest:You know, I ate hummingbird hearts and other rare parts.
Guest:I'm like, who talks like this?
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:I'm like, this guy is the coolest motherfucker.
Guest:But the thing about Iceberg Slim books to me
Guest:is he didn't just show the glamour of the game.
Guest:He showed the pain.
Guest:He was a drug addict.
Guest:He was on heroin.
Guest:And I initially wanted to live that life.
Guest:You know, I wanted to be a pimp.
Guest:I wanted to be in the streets hustling.
Guest:But then one day I had an epiphany and I'm like, but wait a minute.
Guest:this dude's a writer.
Guest:He's not just living the life.
Guest:He wrote it.
Guest:So if I want to really, if I'm modeling my life after this guy, I can't just live the game.
Guest:I have to document the game.
Guest:And that's when my rap career took off because I didn't feel I could write books.
Guest:Ice-T records are more like
Guest:Iceberg Slim novels than hip hop music like it's not about dancing It's not about it's all about me breaking the game down or breaking the life down.
Guest:So When I was in high school, I would go to school quoting iceberg slim Yeah, and the girls would say my name's Tracy So I that being a girl's name in the hood, you know when you in a hood named Tracy They go that's a bitch name.
Guest:So now you're in a fight with a dude you just met so
Guest:They used to call me Trey, Crazy Trey.
Guest:And then that turned into, say some more of that iceberg stuff, tea.
Guest:It turned into iced tea.
Guest:So iced tea has nothing to do with the drink.
Guest:It means iceberg tea.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Well, that's a really interesting idea to know the difference at that age.
Marc:Because I think that's at the core of a lot of stuff that...
Marc:that's happened is that you were savvy enough or sensitive enough to know, like, well, he lived the life, but he also created this art.
Marc:What I like about this guy is his language, is the way he puts things together, his ideas, his expression, right?
Marc:He lived that life, but most of the time you don't survive that life, right?
Marc:So if you're just going to live the life because this guy made it look so damn good, you know, the chances of you dying without saying nothing are high.
Marc:But to know that, you know, what he really did was he was an artist.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:That's what he did.
Marc:The separation.
Guest:We actually did a documentary on him.
Guest:An IT documentary we did on Iceberg Slim.
Marc:Portrait of a Pimp.
Guest:Portrait of a Pimp, yeah.
Guest:So if you watch that, if you have any interest in watching it, you're going to find out his wife wrote the books.
Marc:Oh, really?
Yeah.
Guest:His wife wrote the books because he had got out of the game and he would come home and tell these mad stories about pimping and stuff.
Guest:And his wife was like, that's outrageous.
Guest:And so she got a pen out and he would just tell her the story and she penned most of the books.
Guest:So it's very amazing.
Guest:You know, it's the documentary is deep.
Guest:Did she do the rhyming?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:He actually has an album out.
Guest:Okay.
Yeah.
Guest:where Henry Rollins re-released it, and he's actually rhyming over tracks on it.
Guest:It's like rap.
Guest:It's rap.
Guest:They call him Hustler Toast.
Marc:And then Dolomite was sort of a rap guy, too, in a way.
Guest:I met Dolomite.
Guest:I met Blowfly.
Guest:I was fortunate enough to meet Red Fox.
Guest:You see, when I grew up,
Guest:my parents had these laugh records.
Marc:Party records.
Guest:Party records.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:With Leroy and Skillet on them.
Guest:And it was always some woman with her titties out on the front cover.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was the wildest...
Guest:you know, rowdy talking that you had ever heard.
Guest:So when we came and I started doing rap and I was a little profane, people were like, oh, you're just the worst.
Guest:I'm like, you know, this is part of my culture.
Guest:I grew up listening to this type of shit.
Guest:So, you know, what I did wasn't anything new, maybe new to you.
Marc:Oh, that's interesting.
Marc:So when you got criticized for being dirty at the beginning, you're like, have you listened to Red Fox's You Gotta Wash Your Ass?
Marc:Because that was the beginning of it.
Guest:Can I tell a Red Fox story?
Marc:Yeah, please.
Guest:I was with Red Fox the night before he died.
Guest:No shit.
Guest:We were both on the Arsenio Hall show.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And the first time I ever met Red Fox, I was a super huge fan of him.
Guest:And so he goes out there in the Arsenio Hall show.
Guest:And Arsenio says, Red, you have one of the most blue shows in Vegas.
Guest:And he said, but you've never been bleeped on television.
Guest:How's that?
Guest:And Red Fox says, because I know what I'm playing.
Guest:I know the audience I'm playing to.
Guest:If I'm in Vegas, I know what to do.
Guest:If I'm on television, I know what to do.
Guest:And by the way, who are them hoes in the green room?
Guest:And I was in the green room and all the ladies were like, I was like, Red Fox, man, the master.
Guest:I was like, yo.
Marc:That's so funny because you like, but you were a big fan from when you were a kid.
Marc:It's exciting when you meet people that you love when you're a kid, when you're grown up, you know, you get that opportunity.
Guest:Yeah, well, you know, that whole Dolomite scene, Dolomite and them created a thing where they would play those records at parties.
Guest:Like, people would be drinking, and here's these people on the records talking, and my father and them would have those parties, and those records be playing, and Signified Monkey jumped up, and, you know, it's like...
Guest:It's just part of my history.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But initially, because I was listening, it's very interesting to me that you didn't get into your first music really in terms of what you liked was the metal music.
Guest:Well, the first music I was really heavily indoctrinated with.
Guest:What happened was I hadn't started rapping yet.
Guest:But I lived, my mother father passed early and I moved to Los Angeles to live with my aunt and my aunt had a son named Earl who was just graduated out of high school.
Guest:He thought he was Jimi Hendrix, my cousin.
Guest:He would walk around the house playing air guitar, couldn't play a fucking instrument, had scarves tied around his knees and stuff.
Guest:And he kept the radio station tuned to KLOS and KMET.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I couldn't touch the radio station because I was like 15 years old.
Guest:So what happens is you start to learn metal or rock.
Guest:Because I tell people, if you work at a Jamaican restaurant, you may not know reggae, but by a weekend, you'll be able to pick out the songs you like.
Guest:And then before you know it, you know.
Guest:So before I know it, I'm listening to Traffic, Mock the Hoople, Jay Giles Band, Edgar Winter, Boston, ELO.
Guest:And I started to like the heavier stuff, like Blue Oyster Cult.
Guest:Of course, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple.
Guest:So I'm like...
Guest:So now I go out and I bought the first Black Sabbath album, you know?
Guest:And I would play it over and over and over again.
Guest:And people say, well, that's the invention of heavy metal would be Sabbath.
Guest:So I was right there.
Guest:And...
Guest:I knew a lot about it.
Guest:Now I'm going to high school with kids, you're listening to James Brown, Parliament, BT Express, Brass Construction, all those kinds of groups.
Guest:But I know rock.
Guest:But then Funkadelic had lead guitars.
Marc:Put it together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was a little bit advanced on it and stuff.
Guest:And when I finally got a chance to do my first rap album, the title cut was Ryan Payne's.
Guest:And I use war pigs as the hook.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, and also even earlier in the song, You Don't Quit, I had guitar hits.
Guest:You know, so I understood that it meshed if it was done right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When I did body count, people were like, oh, you're just jumping on this bandwagon of rock.
Guest:I'm like, no, I've been a rock fan for years.
Guest:You know, we could do rock trivia.
Guest:I'll probably beat you.
Marc:But it's also interesting, that first Body Count record, I don't know what year that, oh, 1992, but it was like, that was like, there was the spirit of rap, gangster rap, and heavy metal, and punk rock, like the stuff that maybe Rollins was doing, Black Flag, and then Rollins Band, it all kind of goes together in the kind of fuck you mode of, you know, we got something to say and you guys are full of shit.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:And see, when we would go, we were... Body Count was created because when we went on tour with Public Enemy, the kids would mosh off of the hardcore, faster rap.
Guest:So we're in Europe, and mosh pits jumped off.
Guest:And I'm like...
Guest:fuck that, I can make a rock band right now.
Guest:You know, because once you've played in front of a mosh pit, you always want to play in front of mosh pits.
Guest:Nothing like it.
Guest:It's the ultimate crowd experience.
Guest:Circle pits, mosh pits.
Guest:So I came home and I had a couple of friends, Ernie C, who they actually played on my first album, but they were kind of like without a country.
Guest:Because at the time, rock, people were wearing spandex.
Guest:oh right that was a tough time yeah especially for some kids from the hood the only group that was really kind of breaking that was anthrax right you know and suicidal and like you say some of the punk bands in new york hardcore were not wearing it but we were like how the fuck do we fit in so i said well look we'll use the speed of slayer we'll use you know
Guest:the impending doom of Black Sabbath, and we'll use the punk sensibilities of suicidal, and we'll sing about our shit.
Guest:We won't sing about the devil or dragons or shit like that that the metal guys are singing about.
Guest:I always said, if you took a young white kid and you said, draw something hardcore in your notebook,
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They probably draw skulls.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A black kid will draw a 357 aimed at your fucking face, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I said, we'll take the metal dark energy and you take it right from the street.
Guest:Like, it's all right there.
Guest:Hell is right outside your door.
Guest:It's in the parking lot, motherfucker.
Guest:You ain't got to end up going off, no, flying off some fucking wherewithers, fucking castles and shit.
Guest:No, it's right here, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was what Body Count was based on and been on for 30 years.
Marc:I've got that Body Count CD with the cop killer written on there still.
Marc:I got one of those.
Guest:We thought that was okay.
Guest:People like, oh, you were trying to cross these.
Guest:I was like, no, because I'm listening to Black Flag.
Guest:Black Flag got a t-shirt with a pistol in a cop's mouth that says, make me cum, faggot.
Guest:There's groups called Millions of Dead Cops.
Guest:You know, punk band.
Guest:But...
Guest:I'm gonna tell you this.
Guest:I think the problem with body count was what, and I always say this, is when black people can exchange their rage to white people, that's a problem.
Guest:You know, like right now you're watching all these protests
Guest:And it's not all black people.
Guest:It's white people out there.
Guest:People don't want that.
Guest:They want to be able to say, oh, it's just the Jewish people mad.
Guest:Oh, it's just the white people mad.
Guest:But when they see unity in anger, that's scary.
Guest:That's scary as fuck.
Marc:To the power structure.
Guest:Oh, come on.
Guest:When grandma's out there on the front line, you're going to shoot her with a rubber bullet.
Marc:They do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And people are outraged and they're seeing this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So when I was able to yell cop killer and get thousands and millions of white kids to say it, they were like, we got to shut this dude down.
Guest:This is a problem right here.
Marc:And went all the way to the fucking president.
Marc:You know what's amazing to me is that you read the story around that record and Dan Quayle and the police unions and everything else, you know, and the boycott of Warner Brothers pending.
Marc:That was a big deal.
Marc:That didn't happen.
Marc:Now it happens every other fucking day with this asshole.
Marc:But when it happened with you, it was like a global fucking crisis almost.
Guest:Dude, you don't even know.
Guest:I was at my house and I dated.
Guest:The guys were playing Techno Bowl video games.
Guest:And one of my homies yelled, yo, Ice, man, they on television.
Guest:The president is on television talking about you.
Guest:We changed the channel, and it was Dan Quayle.
Guest:And he's got da-da-da-da-da, this is this, this is this, and he said, and iced tea.
Guest:And everybody in the room, all the dudes were like, oh shit, oh shit.
Guest:Now, we're the real president.
Guest:People don't know what it's like
Guest:to have a real president, not somebody who tweets all the time, but a real one, say your name in anger.
Guest:It's not a normal thing like for George Bush to come out and say, blah, blah.
Guest:You're like, ho.
Guest:Because the minute the president says your name, the most serious background check of your life happens.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The NSA, the CIA, DEA, FBI, all of them.
Guest:Because the second question from the president could be, what do we know about him?
Guest:It can't be like he makes rap records.
Guest:You know, they want to know your social security number, your shoe size, all your friends.
Guest:He wants a dossier on you.
Guest:Like, who the fuck?
Guest:This is the new problem.
Guest:And when that happens to you, you feel it.
Guest:You know, I got tax audited twice that year.
Guest:I had actual people come to the school and talk to my daughter and ask her, you know, was I connected to paramilitary?
Guest:Like they wanted to see if I was really a threat.
Guest:Like is the guy that makes cop killer planning anything?
Guest:And I'm like, I'm making a record.
Guest:You got ice cream trucks parked in front of your house in the middle of the winter.
Guest:Like, what's going on?
Guest:And eventually they realized I just made a record.
Guest:This is not a political agenda, a movement.
Guest:It was just a song about someone who snapped
Guest:Really, under these same situations we're going through now, what if somebody just got so fed up with police brutality that he went after them?
Marc:But that's it.
Marc:But that's the interesting thing, going back to what you realize about Iceberg Slim, is that, you know, you created a character to document to document a reality, which is the freedom you have under the First Amendment to create art.
Marc:And to say what you want to say, but because you're black and because of systemic racism, they're going to try to make an example out of you, the song, and it becomes a big political effort and it reveals the actual problem.
Marc:They manifested exactly what you were talking about and why you were talking about it.
Guest:Look, I learned a lesson from that.
Guest:And on another album, I addressed it.
Guest:I called it Freedom of Speech.
Guest:Watch what you say.
Marc:I love that fucking record, man.
Marc:I listen to that a lot.
Marc:The Iceberg Freedom of Speech record.
Marc:The one with Jello Biafra at the beginning.
Guest:And what that means is we, Mark, you got the right to say whatever you want.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But you have to be prepared for the ramifications.
Guest:Always.
Guest:If I come out and I said something that would be considered anti-gay, which I never say, but if I did, I got to be prepared for the gay movement to attack.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If I come out and say something anti-Semitic, I have to be prepared to be attacked.
Guest:So you have the right to say anything.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But you also got to be prepared...
Guest:Like you can't go to your wife and say, yeah, maybe I just fucked your sister free speech.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:So I had to learn that.
Guest:I had to learn that what I do say, I have the right to say it, but people also have the right to get angry.
Marc:Well, yeah, but isn't that different?
Marc:I mean, I understand that, too, because, you know, I do comedy.
Marc:I got friends who get themselves into trouble.
Marc:And this idea that there's censorship is not fundamentally true because of what you said.
Marc:You can say whatever you want.
Marc:You might have to answer for it.
Marc:But the problem with the cop killer was that that was the feds coming down.
Marc:So, you know, that's the government basically implying that you don't have the right to say this because you're starting shit and we're going to take you down.
Marc:And that is different.
Marc:Because that's... Yeah, you're right.
Marc:Right?
Marc:That's the fucking government being, you know, we're going to shut this fucker down.
Guest:Well, they're gangsters.
Guest:They're gangsters.
Guest:What they'll do is they'll make it difficult for you.
Guest:They'll make it uncomfortable for everyone around you.
Guest:They won't legally be able... They couldn't legally put me in jail, but they'll...
Guest:they'll do stuff like what happened during the whole thing, like cops wouldn't want to do security.
Guest:We had to get insurance for different shows.
Guest:We couldn't get insurance.
Guest:People just, they made us, they vilified us and made us taboo to deal with.
Guest:If you're going to deal with them, then we're not going to deal with you.
Guest:So they played it all the way out.
Guest:And people always say, Hey, controversy is a way to be successful.
Guest:I'm like,
Guest:Not really controversy might get you known, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to take that to the bank and it's going to be a big thing.
Guest:It could it can ruin you.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:For the rest of your fucking life.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You could either be like, oh, that guy's amazing.
Marc:Like that asshole could go either way.
Guest:yeah so my advice is always you know if you're gonna ice cube asked me one time he said uh ice you got any advice i said did he say like that did it rhyme like that something like that we've been we've been we've been friends forever and i just said only say shit you can back up
Guest:If you're going to say something, back it up.
Guest:If you're going to call a woman a bitch and they come back at you, explain why she's a bitch.
Guest:Now, I'm not talking about your mother.
Guest:I'm not talking about yourself.
Guest:I'm talking about you, bitch.
Guest:You are a bitch.
Guest:And then break it down.
Guest:In other words, don't say stuff you're going to have to back up off of.
Guest:So I've always been very calculated with my opinions and my points.
Guest:And I never wanted to say something that I was going to have to go back and apologize for.
Guest:I try to think before I speak.
Guest:And I'm sure I've made mistakes.
Marc:Isn't there a song on this record where you're like, I'm not going to apologize for anything?
Guest:That's no remorse.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Right, right, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that's a song about somebody who's just been pushed to the fucking limit and now it's time for them to take revenge and there is no remorse because you've pushed me to this point where it's gonna be the best day of my life taking out revenge on you, you know?
Guest:And I'm very into revenge.
Guest:People that say they're not into revenge have never got it.
Marc:They don't know that great feeling.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:It's wonderful.
Guest:I don't I don't believe in harping on it.
Guest:People.
Guest:Oh, well, it takes part of your soul.
Guest:And I'm like, no, I'm not sitting around lingering, thinking about revenge like that.
Guest:But if it becomes an opportunity.
Guest:Right.
Guest:If it arises.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm going to take it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You don't want to you don't want to hurt someone too much, but enough to know that they got hurt a little.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So now when you when you think about what's going on now generationally, like, you know, the the point of finger song on the new record speaks directly to blaming the victim, which is a real thing.
Marc:And then on the last record, the No Lives Matter song speaks directly to how the dominating people.
Marc:paradigm sort of minimizes the voices of minorities in general.
Marc:So when you see what's happening now, like you just said, you're seeing these protests that are multi-ethnic, multi-age, multi-class
Marc:Do you feel that something has changed all of a sudden?
Marc:Because in my recollection, when your generation was coming up and you guys were fighting the good fight, it was usually in reaction to the same shit that was going on now.
Marc:And then it was different, too, in the sense that there were really fucking profound, horrible riots in Los Angeles.
Marc:But these kids now, they weren't alive for that.
Marc:Do you feel like this is a wake-up call for this generation?
Guest:Well...
Guest:I think, let's start with, this is another generation.
Guest:This is not even the millennials.
Guest:These are like the Z's.
Guest:These kids are even younger.
Guest:And I went out into some of the uprisings or riots.
Guest:I was actually in Arizona in a restaurant
Guest:and they're like the riot is coming like like you know you hear the people coming and the people inside the restaurant start to panic and i'm like i'm going outside i want to i want to see what's going on it was all kids yeah all like young kids 18 to 25 white kids yeah they were out there doing civil disobedience breaking up shit wiling guys were out there talking to chicks it's a lot of wildness that was going on but
Guest:I think that right now these kids are growing up.
Guest:All right, let's look at it like this.
Guest:I think Obama,
Guest:had everybody relaxed.
Guest:Obama as a president made us all feel everything's cool.
Guest:You know, oh, yo, by the way, yo, we just got up Bin Laden and caught the motherfucker, you know, it's all good, chill.
Guest:And everybody just kind of like relaxed.
Guest:And that whole generation just was not really into protesting.
Guest:It was just like,
Guest:it looks like our commander in chief has us together.
Guest:Now there'll be people that say, well, the world was falling apart, but for the masses, it was seen peaceful.
Marc:Well, they, and also they thought that they, that some problems had been solved.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Trump gets in and he's like panic, like everyone panic, you know, build a wall.
Guest:We're all going to die.
Guest:This, that, and the third.
Guest:And now this generation is growing up in this, you know, four years of this, they're like, what the fuck?
Guest:You know, this is from 18 to 22.
Guest:They're watching this.
Guest:I think that right now what we're going through is another civil rights movement.
Guest:Right.
Guest:My father marched in the civil rights movements in the 60s.
Guest:Civil rights is racism, sexism.
Guest:It's all the different civil rights.
Guest:Right.
Guest:people have to address it.
Guest:The cops, we have to address all these different things.
Guest:And I'm so happy to see the kids really going out there, making some moves.
Guest:From these movements, you got new leaders that come out, young girls, young guys that have become the next generation of leaders.
Guest:So activism is great.
Guest:Activism is good.
Guest:Now people got to me, oh, well, riots and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
Guest:I'm like, look, a riot is a tantrum and it's a flashpoint and shit happens during a riot.
Guest:The best way to stop a riot is never let it get started.
Guest:You know, now people like, oh, well, you're agreeing with people breaking shit.
Guest:I'll say, let me break it down.
Guest:Let me give you this analogy.
Guest:Your wife walks into you and says she has a problem.
Guest:You're playing video games.
Guest:She's telling you about police brutality.
Guest:She comes back in another time.
Guest:Hey, baby, let me talk to you about this.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:Yeah, I'm too busy.
Guest:About the fourth time she throws her fucking shoe through your TV set.
Guest:That's a riot.
Guest:That's a riot.
Guest:It's like we tried to take a knee.
Guest:We're gonna burn up some shit.
Guest:We're gonna cause...
Guest:chaos to get attention.
Guest:Ain't nobody rioting now.
Guest:That's it's over.
Guest:You know, no looting.
Guest:But that's a flashpoint of a riot.
Guest:Don't let riots happen.
Marc:And like it just seems to me like and what do I know?
Marc:But it does seem to me that because of this president, because of the sort of shameless, you know, prideful engagement with racists and creating division,
Marc:That, you know, even people of my generation, I think, are finally waking up and seeing the reality of systemic racism.
Marc:I don't think they ever really saw it before.
Marc:Even the progressive people.
Guest:The thing about dude, see, like I tell people, I'm not a Democrat.
Guest:I'm not a Republican.
Guest:I believe both wings are on the same bird.
Guest:I just look at people in general and make a decision on, is this a good person?
Guest:Is this guy trying to look out for us?
Guest:I don't get into all that left wing, right wing shit.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm probably liberal in some things.
Guest:I don't know what I am.
Guest:I just try to be honest to myself.
Guest:See, people don't understand racism.
Guest:When you start saying, oh, we got to build a wall and the Mexicans are the problem, that's racism.
Guest:You can't just lump a whole country into anything like that.
Guest:And you can't really do blacks right now, so let's do Mexicans.
Guest:And you're triggering the same people.
Guest:You're triggering all these people.
Guest:Chris Rock said it best.
Guest:He says that our presidency is like a pendulum.
Guest:and it swings from one side.
Guest:So it went from Bush, you know, over to Clinton, right?
Guest:Who's smoking weed.
Guest:Then it goes from Clinton to son of a Bush, right?
Guest:Back over this way.
Guest:Then it goes from Bush back to Obama.
Guest:And then it went from Obama, now it's swung this way to fucking Trump.
Guest:So he said the only place left for it to swing is Jesus.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And because you have a two party system, when one party wins, the other party festers.
Guest:and hates and just waits for their chance.
Guest:And I mean, I don't know, man.
Guest:In a way, we're in our worst time, but I feel like this is a chance for the America, the United States of America to reset and get their shit together for the next hundred years.
Guest:I hope so.
Guest:Let's get this dialogue going and let's make some changes for the better.
Guest:Because I believe, I'm not totally...
Marc:pessimistic i i know too many great people i know too many good people so you can't tell me everybody's a piece of shit no for sure now when you were like when trump was just a you know a fucking clown did you ever meet him or do a show with him or anything
Guest:Well, see, Trump's a very opportunist dude.
Guest:He'll hang out with you if it leverages itself.
Guest:The closest thing I ever came to Trump, I walked by him once at the Indianapolis 500.
Guest:I don't know if I touched him or shook his hand.
Guest:He just passed by me.
Guest:He goes, there's Donald Trump.
Guest:I'm not fascinated with wealthy people.
Guest:I've met really wealthy people in my life.
Guest:So I'm like, he ain't my friend.
Guest:I'd much rather meet Quincy Jones.
Guest:I just never had a real connect to Trump.
Guest:But hip hop, we always thought Trump was a baller.
Guest:We like Trump, get Trump.
Guest:There's even a rapper named Tone Trump.
Guest:Trump was a term for making money.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, right.
Guest:Well, we realized what kind of underlying asshole he was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And one time we roasted him.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Roast of Donald Trump.
Marc:A Comedy Central thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was there and I was with Coco and, you know, Coco, she loves taking pictures with celebrities.
Guest:And I go, there go Trump.
Guest:And I go, I'm sorry, take a picture with Trump.
Guest:And she goes, you want a picture with Trump?
Guest:I'm like, nah.
Guest:She goes, I'm good.
Guest:I'm good.
Guest:So, you know, it's like, you ain't really no celebrity, dude.
Guest:Like, why are we even taking pictures with you?
Marc:I know, but there's something about that, dude.
Marc:It ain't right.
Marc:Because I was on that same, I think it was the same episode I told the story about you, seeing you at the aquarium on Conan.
Marc:Trump was the guest before me, right?
Mm-hmm.
Marc:And Frank, the guy who was the producer over at Conan, when I used to do that show all the time and Trump was in the dressing room, he said to me, he said, you want to meet Trump?
Marc:And I had the same reaction you did.
Marc:I was like, I don't think so.
Marc:I don't want to meet him.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Why do I want to meet him?
Guest:If they told you a guy was a major developer in Miami, built a bunch of hotels, and his name was Joseph Johnson, you want to meet him?
Guest:No.
Guest:So the only reason you would want to meet him is if you held him in celebrity, like you felt he was somebody.
Guest:And I was like,
Guest:You know, and the more I got to watch him, like one of my friends, I don't want to mention their name.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But his father was on The Apprentice.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And he got he got off the first round.
Guest:And I asked him, I said, why did you get off the show?
Guest:He said, basically, that show is Watch Your Heroes Kiss Donald Trump's ass.
Guest:And he said, I'm not going to do it.
Guest:And I'm like, well, right on.
Guest:But he said once he got there, he realized that's what it was.
Guest:It was like all these people, Herschel Walker, all these greats that we admired.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was like, I'm not doing that.
Guest:I'm already I'm a billionaire, too.
Marc:Yeah, that's a good way to read that.
Marc:That's a good way to see that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So the cover of Ace of Spades is great.
Marc:Did you know Lemmy?
Guest:Yeah, I worked with Lemmy.
Guest:I did a song called Born to Raise Hell with Lemmy.
Guest:And, you know, I've been very fortunate to work with a lot of these metal gods, you know, whether it's Lemmy or Henry Rollins or Slayer or, you know, Lamb of God, all these different cats.
Guest:And I respect them and the fact that they're like, yo, I'm gonna fuck with Ice-T.
Guest:That meant a lot to me, you know, because real artists don't just really collab with people.
Guest:It's very difficult.
Guest:Like, they must end.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:did a solo on one of our records.
Guest:Dave doesn't do that.
Guest:I don't even think Slayer has more than two collabs with anybody.
Guest:So when I got a chance to work with Lemmy, it was an honor.
Guest:And he was just mad cool.
Guest:He's his original
Guest:You know, like if you say, well, Ice is the original gangster, that's fucking Motorhead.
Guest:He's the original Lemmy, you know?
Guest:And I had a good time with him.
Guest:And on the Body Count records, we try to do tributes to the groups that influenced us.
Guest:So, you know, on Manslaughter, we covered Suicidal.
Guest:Bloodlust, we covered Slayer.
Guest:So I said, let's cover Motorhead.
Guest:And people are like, where was Motorhead influenced?
Guest:I'm like, Copkiller.
Guest:You know, those open... Cop Killer sounds like you're on a Harley driving down the freeway.
Guest:Cop Killer doesn't sound like Slayer.
Guest:Cop Killer is more Motorhead.
Guest:You know, so...
Guest:we're like any other band.
Guest:We take influences.
Guest:I was just reading the other day that Metallica, Kirk Hammett said, well, I took a lick from an Ice-T Power album to start the solo on Enter the Sandman.
Marc:No shit.
Guest:Yeah, but it wasn't even my lick.
Guest:It was a lick I had sampled from Heart.
Marc:From Heart?
Guest:Yeah, Magic Man.
Marc:From Magic Man?
Guest:He heard that.
Guest:I have a song called Take It Personal.
Guest:And I just sampled that.
Guest:And then if you listen to
Guest:into the Sandman where they go, that's how the guitar starts.
Guest:So he says, I heard it on Ice's album, I like his term, he said, I gotta snake that.
Guest:But all of us, all musicians,
Guest:are influenced by other musicians.
Guest:I mean, I know comedians too.
Guest:It's like, you see something, you're like, man, I gotta figure out how to do something with that energy or that shit is just dope to me.
Guest:So if it's done right,
Guest:you know people won't ever figure it out only the only the artist knows you know i took that inspiration from sure yeah yeah but it's done wrong people like you ripped them off yeah yeah yeah no you got you got to figure out like what it is about what's inspiring in you and what do you you know how do you put your feelings around it right exactly
Marc:So like, but it's so weird, you know, when I listen to, I just re-listened to some of your earlier, the rap records and it's like everything was, it's amazing how stripped down it was, man.
Marc:You know, like, like the evolution of hip hop.
Marc:I mean, now the layers, the possibilities of beats, the possibilities of tracks.
Marc:It's like, it's a completely different universe, man.
Marc:I mean, when you were doing it, you had like one or two samples, a drum and then you, and that was it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:What do you like?
Guest:The rapper is the main instrument, you know, and I got that stripped down style from Rick Rubin.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I would listen to Beastie Boy records.
Guest:I was listening to LL Cool J records.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And...
Guest:you know, like LL's early record, I need a beat, an insurmountable beat subject of discussion.
Guest:You're motivated with the age.
Guest:It's like the beat is just there.
Guest:The vocalist is the machine.
Guest:It's all about the vocalist.
Guest:It's kind of like a beat is playing and a sax player is soloing over it.
Guest:That's what a rapper is.
Guest:It's not about...
Guest:I'm not Celine Dion where I need all the music around me and I sing in the midst of it.
Guest:New hip hop is really production driven.
Guest:It's a lot more beat.
Guest:And tracks are so immense and so intense, you really don't care what they're saying.
Guest:now it's it's it's it's it's beat and it's sonically driven like i play my records in a club and then they'll play a new record in a club and i'm like god damn like the it's just so big and it's yeah it just fucking vibrates it's it's technology yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
Marc:It is kind of amazing the depth of sound that happens now.
Marc:But on the other side of it, when you listen to your stuff or older stuff in general, you don't need all that shit to get the message across.
Guest:It's two different vibes if you listen to early metal.
Guest:It's thin.
Marc:Oh, it's really thin.
Marc:Some of it, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And if you listen to our new stuff, it's so big and it's mixed so differently.
Guest:Like Will Putney mixes the body count albums for stadiums and like you listen to it and it's like, damn, my whole car is filled up.
Marc:Yeah, that crunch.
Guest:Heavy.
Guest:So, you know,
Marc:It's just evolution.
Marc:It's why not?
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:If, if that's what, you know, because like people get desensitized to, you know, like now you go back to the old stuff and you can be nostalgic about it and enjoy it.
Marc:But yeah, you, you, you, if you're into the new stuff, you want something that's going to beat your brains in, you know, you want, you want the full body experience.
Guest:Well, one of the things I think about the old stuff, it was so experimental, like the 808 drum kick.
Guest:the bass that everybody uses now that's now synthesized out this big.
Guest:It's just a distorted drum that wasn't supposed to be played like that.
Guest:And we went into the studio and we were always like, let's do something different.
Guest:Like I remember the first time I sent my voice to a Lexicon space station, which is a drum,
Guest:a drum effects module.
Guest:And they're like, well, that's for drums.
Guest:I'm like, got my voice through it.
Guest:So you got a bunch of rap kids showing up in a studio full of lights.
Guest:We wanted to use all the lights.
Guest:We were like, what is that?
Guest:And that's where all the sampling started to come through, the echoes, the reverbs.
Guest:I remember BC boys say, a VU's in the red, or it may sound thin.
Guest:So they were like,
Guest:pin the VUs, and the engineers were like, no, no, like, fuck that.
Guest:We wanna do that.
Guest:Matter of fact, take the tape out, put the tape backwards, and I'ma rap over the tape backwards, and then you get Paul Revere going.
Guest:So that creativity part of hip hop, early hip hop,
Guest:We got, you know, I really appreciate that because I was like, man, people were in there trying to figure it out.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:Because you were actual innovators.
Marc:You're like, let's use that for this.
Marc:You're not supposed to, but let's do it anyways.
Marc:And now everything, you just got a guy going like, yeah, I can do that.
Marc:Let me just push this.
Marc:Okay, we're good.
Marc:Go.
Marc:You know, like you guys.
Guest:They can do it on their phone.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But you guys were creating the language of it.
Marc:You know, that they eventually just integrated into a button.
Guest:There's some people that are going to look at the first Shelby Cobra and think that's the greatest car.
Guest:And there's some people that want that new Pagani or that new Bugatti.
Guest:No matter what.
Guest:No matter what.
Guest:So there is respect for the originators of this stuff.
Guest:And there's always going to be love for the newest model that's out.
Guest:So ain't no hate there.
Guest:It's just what it is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And how about like, so how, like, are you guys going back to Law & Order?
Marc:You don't know.
Guest:Law and Order is in an interesting zone.
Guest:What happened with Law and Order was we were filming and they came into my trailer and said, we're done.
Guest:We're pulling the plug.
Guest:I had a scene to do that day.
Guest:That was in March.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I was supposed to shoot that day, too.
Marc:The day they canceled.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was like...
Guest:what the hell is going on?
Guest:And then we had a show in New York that got canceled.
Guest:Then we had a show in LA that got canceled because Carnivore just came out.
Guest:And then we had 40 shows in Europe all got canceled.
Guest:I'm like, no, I'm fucking unemployed right now.
Guest:That was the moment I really realized
Guest:you make money in front of people.
Guest:Like your money is not, you know, you got some residuals coming in, but your real bank is being in front of people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, wow.
Guest:You got to go to work.
Guest:It was a wake up call.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, and, um, because usually if I can't do law and order, I could do body count.
Guest:I got two jobs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Both of them dead.
Guest:So, um, from what I understand right now, they want to come back, uh,
Guest:September, October.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, what they're trying to do is create a safe work environment.
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:NBC, Universal, all them, they have a lot of liability.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If they bring us back and somebody gets sick and then we say, hey, you put me in an unsafe work environment, that could be a mass lawsuit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So they're trying to cover themselves.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I totally understand that.
Guest:I think we're going to move into the world of the waiver.
Guest:When you go in a restaurant, you're going to sign a waiver.
Guest:When you go to the gym, you're going to sign a waiver.
Guest:I chartered a jet.
Guest:to get from New Jersey to Arizona.
Guest:I don't usually fly private, but I needed to get out here and I was like, okay, come on, come on, you know, come up off of some of that bread.
Guest:I stopped being a cheapskate, but we chartered.
Guest:And we had to sign waivers that said, if we were to catch COVID, we couldn't try to take, you know, come after the aircraft.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I think that when I go back to work, you're going to have to sign waivers.
Guest:A lot of them.
Marc:You still like doing it?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's good.
Marc:It's a good bunch of people.
Guest:It's fun to go to work.
Guest:Mariska is wonderful.
Guest:Um, when you're on a show, 22 years, um,
Guest:It just runs like a machine.
Guest:Everybody appreciates everybody.
Guest:Everyone is keeping everybody employed.
Guest:Everyone is, you know, when I'm not on the screen, Mariska is.
Guest:I love Mariska.
Guest:I told Mariska, I said, Mariska, I love my wife.
Guest:I love my daughter, but I've made more money with you, Mariska.
Guest:You know, so I don't mind it.
Guest:And also, as I'm getting older,
Guest:It's good not to have to be on the road fucking, you know, 10 months out of the year.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Guest:I can now it allows you to have a house, go to work every day.
Guest:It's a job.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I like that.
Guest:I like the stability of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Are you friends with Belzer?
Guest:Man, Belzer and me are like best friends.
Marc:How's he doing?
Marc:Where's he in France?
Guest:He's in and out of France.
Guest:Last time I heard from him, he was in Vegas.
Guest:But that is something, Belzer's a motherfucker.
Guest:Like, I don't know what, when I got on the show, they're like, oh, the rapper, the rapper, he'll be the problem.
Guest:Belzer's smoking weed, Belzer is drinking wine, Belzer is cursing motherfuckers out.
Guest:I'm like, I'm the least problem, Belzer is crazy.
Guest:And me and him became close because we really quickly realized that both of us were nightclub performers.
Guest:So neither of us like early calls, neither of us, and I asked Belzer, he says, ice.
Guest:You know what I look for in a script?
Guest:I'm like, what?
Guest:He goes, days off.
Marc:I love that guy.
Marc:I haven't seen him in years.
Marc:I used to see him over at the comedy store.
Marc:He's driving around in that big El Dorado he had.
Guest:I mean, I got so many.
Guest:Belzer told me wild stories about Miles Davis.
Guest:I mean, he's basically been around...
Guest:all the greats.
Guest:His comedy is unique.
Guest:I've seen him live.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's just a character.
Guest:One of a kind.
Guest:You know that?
Marc:I know.
Marc:Yeah, he was the guy in the shootout.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, no, he's a great guy, but he's doing okay, huh?
Guest:I hope so.
Guest:I hope so.
Guest:Now I'm going to have to check on him since you brought his name up.
Marc:Yeah, please do, because I don't think I got a number for him.
Marc:Yeah, Bell's just like a sweet guy, and he's the whole history of modern comedy in that guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he really seemed to learn how to enjoy his life, which is nice, you know?
Guest:Belzer was, I mean, working with him for all those years.
Guest:I didn't never know when it was a joke.
Guest:I didn't know what the fuck was coming.
Guest:I remember one time he came into work, he goes, ice.
Guest:I'm like, what is this?
Guest:Put your dick on the table.
Guest:I want to show you something right quick.
Marc:What the fuck are you talking about?
Marc:But you almost did it, right?
Yeah.
Guest:Like, yo, dude, I had to learn.
Guest:I had to learn.
Guest:I learned so much about comedy like that.
Guest:I'm like, oh, that's a joke where the setup is a joke.
Guest:All right.
Marc:That's funny.
Marc:It was great talking to you, buddy.
Guest:Hey, thanks for having me.
Guest:Hopefully the people and your listeners don't hate my guts and fuck with me.
Guest:But yeah.
Marc:No one's going to hate you.
Marc:There's no reason to hate you.
Marc:The new record's good and you got a lot of respect.
Marc:Everybody loves you, Ice.
Guest:That's what's up.
Guest:Well, thanks, Mark.
Guest:Thanks for having me.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:Take it easy.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Peace.
Marc:Ice-T and me.
Marc:What a great talk.
Marc:What a great guy.
Marc:You can get Body Count's Carnivore wherever you buy or listen to music.
Marc:And the single from 2017 that he re-released is called No Lives Matter.
Marc:That's a round two.
Marc:So now I'll play some guitar, I guess.
Marc:Right?
Marc:That's what we do here.
Yeah.
guitar solo
Guest:guitar solo
Marc:Boomer lives.