Episode 1141 - Marc and Tom's Normal Things
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck tarryans how's it going uh i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf you're listening to wtf with mark maron that's a old school reset
Marc:Hi, welcome back.
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:You're listening to WTF Today.
Marc:What the fuck is happening, man?
Marc:Newly formed federal Gestapo.
Marc:That's exciting.
Marc:I'm not going to go through the news.
Marc:I'm just trying to temper the fear.
Marc:Temper the temper.
Marc:Temper the darkness.
Marc:The bleak, hopeless landscape of current global culture.
Marc:Fuck, man.
Marc:How's it going?
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:I'm being rude.
Marc:Are you okay?
Marc:Are you moving any of those things from home?
Marc:You would think that people would need them now.
Marc:You would think that people are at home just wondering, hey, those people that have either a debting problem or credit card issues, I would imagine are amassing things.
Marc:People with money are probably buying things.
Marc:People with no money are probably selling stuff.
Marc:How's your business doing?
Marc:How are the kids?
Marc:Are you finding time for yourself?
Marc:Are you taking walks?
Marc:Are you going outside?
Marc:Are you talking to friends?
Marc:Are you saying hello to your neighbors in that awkward way with a mask?
Marc:Are you cleaning up?
Marc:Are you organizing?
Marc:Have you got everything together?
Marc:Or are you in bed?
Marc:Get up.
Marc:Get out.
Marc:Make your bed.
Marc:Shower up.
Marc:Feed the fucking animals.
Marc:And by animals, I'm talking about your family.
Marc:And then feed your pleasant pets.
Marc:Maybe the family can feed itself.
Marc:I don't know your situation.
Marc:I just know this togetherness is starting to crack some people.
Marc:So look, apparently we're not going to be shooting the fourth season of GLOW until sometime in 2021.
Marc:I do not know when stand-up comedy is going to resurface.
Marc:I am not of the...
Marc:Type of comic that needs to go do shows at drive-ins or at half-filled houses spread out.
Marc:As much as I enjoy taking the stage, I don't need to do that.
Marc:I saved some money.
Marc:I'm okay for now.
Marc:You can catch me on Instagram Live occasionally.
Marc:You can catch me here where I'm not being particularly funny.
Marc:But look, today I'm going to talk to my friend Tom Sharpling.
Marc:Many of you know Mr. Sharpling.
Marc:He's one of the great broadcasters.
Marc:One of the great broadcasters.
Marc:If you do know him, you probably know him from his show, The Best Show.
Marc:And that's been on a little bit of a hiatus.
Marc:He's finishing up a memoir.
Marc:But you can always go listen to The Best Show stuff at bestshow.net.
Marc:Here's some of the comedy.
Marc:Here's some of the amazing...
Marc:pauses of tom sharpling one of the great um broadcasting stylists of the of the uh late 20th century and a dear friend of mine
Marc:which happened later in life a couple of the people that are my closest friends are actually people that i have not known all my life but it's turning out that i as life goes on i know them longer than you might think i got a call from my first serious girlfriend
Marc:Out of nowhere.
Marc:It's not that we've been totally out of touch, but we certainly don't talk much.
Marc:But she, you know, heard the news about Lynn and checked in.
Marc:And it's really interesting.
Marc:I mean, that's going back to 1982, 83.
Marc:You know, that that's the one that set me on a course, an arc.
Marc:Of heart hardened anger.
Marc:over my own selfish fucking emotional liabilities that persisted for decades.
Marc:That first heartbreak, even though I did not know how to love or be loved or even behave properly other than angry and jealous, possessive and insane, insecure and emotionally needy and aggravated.
Marc:That's a horrendous triangle.
Marc:Needy, insecure and aggravated.
Marc:Do not step into that.
Marc:But nonetheless, through a lot of things, we've stayed in touch.
Marc:And she's had tragedy in her life.
Marc:I have this tragedy in my life now.
Marc:And we had a nice conversation.
Marc:But what's interesting is when you talk to somebody that was in your life, no matter how long ago it was, if it was real and it was serious and it was emotionally connected, they are woven into the fabric of your being.
Marc:And when I heard her voice on the phone, it's not that it all came back.
Marc:It wasn't it didn't all come back, but the familiarity was there.
Marc:It was just like the the symbiosis, the connection, the the sort of emotional frequencies just kind of sync up the laugh.
Marc:You hear the laugh of the person that you loved decades ago.
Marc:And it's not that it brings you back, but it it it reconnects you in the moment to something deeply ingrained and familiar in you.
Marc:And it's a beautiful thing.
Marc:I was happy to talk to her.
Marc:For some reason, the last few days have not been too great.
Marc:As many of you said about grief, you don't know when it's going to happen.
Marc:You don't know when you're going to be overwhelmed with it.
Marc:But I think what is happening for me now is that the shock and trauma and sort of PTSD and the haze and fog of reality shattering tragedy is starting to recede a bit.
Marc:And what's left is this sort of like just the pure loss.
Marc:We don't lose a history with somebody.
Marc:But it stops.
Marc:You lose a potential future.
Marc:It's just sitting with it.
Marc:That this is my life.
Marc:And this was not what I signed up for.
Marc:But what do we sign up for?
Marc:I mean, that's the weird thing.
Marc:I did not sign up to be the guy crying alone in his bed with his 16-year-old cat.
Marc:I didn't sign up for that.
Marc:And I have to let it happen.
Marc:And there's something about it that I find to be pathetic and embarrassing where it's not.
Marc:What it is, it's tragic and it's painfully human.
Marc:But somehow in my mind, pathetic and embarrassing.
Marc:To who?
Marc:You wouldn't have known it until I told you that I was laying in my bed looking at old monkey, listening to him asthmatically wheeze.
Marc:And just crying and saying, look, man, it's OK.
Marc:We did it.
Marc:You did good.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:But then, like, I just kept crying because I was alone and, you know, and I was processing the loss.
Marc:This is it.
Marc:This is the life.
Marc:I'm not saying it's not going to go away or that it's not going to ease up or it's going to be the right.
Marc:I'm not going to wallow.
Marc:I'm not feeling sorry for myself.
Marc:I'm just having the feelings.
Marc:And in that moment, I believe that monkey was like, I get it, man.
Marc:All right.
Marc:And then he started licking my hand and grooming me.
Marc:And I'm like, dude, thank you, but you got to be tired of this shit.
Marc:And he's like, I'm all right.
Marc:I'm all right for now.
Marc:But yeah, you know, I've been fucking eating, dude.
Marc:Dude, I've been eating.
Marc:Patton Oswalt sent me a box out of nowhere.
Marc:I get this box of Jenny's ice cream again.
Marc:I've gotten it twice now from different people.
Marc:I think even Jenny sent it to me.
Marc:But it was from Patton.
Marc:Now, you know, I thanked him.
Marc:I said, thanks for the ice cream, pal.
Marc:Now I can be sad and fat.
Marc:Really, though, thanks makes me feel better.
Marc:And then like an hour later, a huge basket of food, cookies, brownies, olives, you know, the basket.
Marc:And then I made a joke.
Marc:I said, oh, shit, a basket, too.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Marc:This is almost as good as my girlfriend being alive again.
Marc:Then I wrote too dark.
Marc:But, you know, we're comics.
Marc:It was dark.
Marc:It was, you know, obviously horrendous joke.
Marc:And he went, ha ha ha.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:And then he said, if memory serves, you are at the ice cream and baked goods phase of morning.
Marc:So I wanted you to have the primo stuff.
Marc:And I said, ha ha.
Marc:Beautiful.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:Hope you're well.
Marc:And he said, hope you're doing well and that you're getting better.
Marc:And I said, overall better.
Marc:Some days are sad.
Marc:And he said, the sad days will never truly go away.
Marc:But the days where you get to experience joy and every other emotion in the spectrum are coming back, I promise.
Marc:And I said, thanks, man.
Marc:It's good to hear that.
Marc:Patton Oswalt stepping up.
Marc:Nice man.
Marc:That's the thing about friends, showing gratitude to them.
Marc:Do that.
Marc:Talk to your friends.
Marc:And that's what this episode's really about.
Marc:Tom and I have done shows before.
Marc:We did a series called The Mark and Tom Show.
Marc:We've done a few of those.
Marc:I was on his show years ago in New Jersey.
Marc:But Tom's a guy that, you know, we became friends, you know, later, not that long ago, really.
Marc:And I just love the guy.
Marc:And he's been really present for me during this time.
Marc:Like he, between you and me, he'll come over and we'll eat dinner like once a week.
Marc:We'll be out back, outside, just talking, maskless, with some distance between us.
Marc:Just having a nice dinner.
Marc:And, you know, talking for a few hours about stuff.
Marc:talking about people, having some laughs, talking about movies.
Marc:He just came over last night, actually, or the night before last.
Marc:Had some dinner, talked about the Safdie brothers, Sandler movies, Paul Thomas Anderson.
Marc:Had a few laughs at the expense of people not present, which is nice.
Marc:Talked about language.
Marc:Talked about his new book.
Marc:He's got to read his manuscript.
Marc:But it's important to do that.
Marc:However you're going to do it.
Marc:Obviously, some of you are like, you guys just talked without masks on.
Marc:We did.
Marc:Outside.
Marc:Not too close.
Marc:But yeah, man.
Marc:I mean, you got to nourish that part of you.
Marc:You got to stay engaged.
Marc:You got to get some laughs and
Marc:But I think also it's important to be grateful to the people that are there for you.
Marc:And that's for some reason that's very hard for me to do.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:It's not that I don't feel gratitude, but to connect with the words.
Marc:Not to be like, hey, buddy, thanks, man.
Marc:Thanks for hanging.
Marc:But just sort of like really...
Marc:Because that's the tone, like that's nice and it's polite, but that's, you know, that's like pushing it out there.
Marc:Like, hey, you know, great to see you.
Marc:You know, it's different than like, hey, you know, this has been a very difficult time and I really appreciate you showing up for me.
Marc:And I said that to my friend Sam.
Marc:My friend Sam Lipsight's the other dude.
Marc:That guy calls me every night.
Marc:And we talk for like a half hour to an hour about stuff.
Marc:I'll tell him how I'm doing.
Marc:You know, it started off like, are you okay?
Marc:And he's walked me through sort of suicidal ideation, crying, heartache, you know, all of it.
Marc:But now, you know, we talk and he calls me every night.
Marc:And we just, you know, have a few laughs, talk about stuff, books, thoughts, news, ideas, the future.
Marc:And I just, I don't know.
Marc:I just got overwhelmed the other night.
Marc:And I thanked him, you know, with, you know, in a deep, deeply grateful way, you know, where I got choked up and because he can't take your friends for granted.
Marc:And we have these people in our lives that some people we've had in our lives forever.
Marc:And, you know, you just sort of like, yeah, man, best, best pals.
Marc:You're there for me.
Marc:But, you know, as you get older and when things start to break down, when things,
Marc:People start to get sick when people lose people.
Marc:I mean, that's where the fucking tire hits the road.
Marc:Is that what they say?
Marc:The tire hits the pavement.
Marc:The wheel hits the... Where the tire blows out and the rims get all fucked up.
Marc:That's when you need a friend.
Marc:When you're fucking... You run over a fucking bunch of nails put there...
Marc:in the road by Wile E. Coyote the trickster and all your tires blow out and you're driving on those fucking rims because what are you just gonna give up in the desert eventually you have to start walking and that's where your friends come in so
Marc:That's what's going on.
Marc:And this is what this is.
Marc:Now, this was recorded before Lynn passed away.
Marc:Not long before.
Marc:And, you know, as I've said, you know, Tom and I have done many episodes.
Marc:where we just talked about things going on, things in the culture, things we liked.
Marc:And this recording is actually an attempt to do something like that.
Marc:And it was just as the pandemic was starting, right?
Marc:And it was really an attempt to feel somewhat normal, to talk about normal things.
Marc:And I guess my point here is that it's important to still do that.
Marc:Very important.
Marc:Or else you're just going to be consumed by, I don't know what your faith is or how you're holding up, but it's bleak, man.
Marc:And you got to treasure and really rely on that kind of human connection.
Marc:I think that's why a lot of people listen to this show.
Marc:It's important to do that.
Marc:Also wanted to mention there's a new batch of ceramic WTF cap mugs available from Brian Jones.
Marc:These are the handmade mugs I gave to my guests in the normal times back in the day.
Marc:So right now getting these mugs from Brian Jones is the only way you can get them.
Marc:It's almost like I'm talking to my guests.
Marc:I mean, I can send you one if you've been on the show.
Marc:But I guess also that's saying you can't just break into Josh Brolin's house and get that mug.
Marc:OK, you got to buy it from Brian and he's donating a portion of the sales of these mugs to the Connecticut Food Bank.
Marc:You can go to Brian R. Jones dot com slash shop starting at noon Eastern today.
Marc:As I said earlier, Tom's taking a bit of a break from The Best Show as he finishes up his book.
Marc:And you can always check out Best Show material at thebestshow.net.
Marc:And right now, Tom is doing a new podcast with Julie Klausner called Double Threat.
Marc:You can get that wherever you listen to podcasts.
Marc:This is me and Tom celebrating things from the normal times coming right up.
Guest:I'm all right.
Marc:Are you all right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I guess I'm fine.
Marc:I go a little crazy occasionally thinking, you know, thinking I have something, but, uh, Oh no, there'll be times when I'm just suddenly like,
Guest:Yeah, this is it.
Guest:And I just realized it's like, oh, no, I have these things that have happened my whole life where I'd be congested for half a day, and then it passes.
Guest:But now suddenly it's like, well, there's got to be it.
Marc:This is it.
Marc:And I'm not going to make it through it.
Marc:I used to smoke.
Marc:I'm going to end up in the hospital.
Marc:So I will tell you that that coffee, I went out of the way and I got some Dunkin' Donuts beans.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Just because.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I got a thing for Dunkin' Donuts occasionally.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And I was in Ralph's.
Marc:And I get a bunch of good coffee.
Marc:I get high-end shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I just saw the bag of Dunkin' beans.
Marc:I'm like, fuck it.
Marc:Let's go.
Guest:I'm living.
Guest:You're right back to New England.
Guest:I'm going back.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You're back to your Boston days.
Marc:Jacked up.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Jacked up.
Marc:Didn't they have it in Jersey?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Dunkin' Donuts is everywhere.
Guest:Chock full of nuts, too.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Less.
Guest:That but that was more of a Manhattan thing like I would see those when I went into the city from New Jersey I'd see like chock full of nuts.
Guest:I bought the can chock full of nuts for a while like chock full of nuts you'd see the oversized cans and like like my grandmother like they would grandparents would have just like John thing is chock full of nuts and then they would have like a Jarrah Sanka.
Guest:Yeah, I guess they didn't want to thank you.
Guest:Yeah go through the production of making coffee.
Guest:Yeah, and
Guest:But Dunkin' Donuts, that's what got me drinking coffee.
Guest:Nobody in my family drank coffee, so I didn't grow up with coffee drinkers.
Guest:But then just at some point when you're like 18, 19, you're just like, I gotta check and see what the big deal is about this.
Guest:It's time.
Guest:And then it was like, oh my God, this stuff is...
Guest:this i was like i would like i'm on a lifelong journey oh my head would spin from that like that stuff would make you vibrate oh yeah that's what i go for yeah it still does it yeah i'm going up now i'm going up where you're just like oh wow yeah and i don't do anything else i'm clean as fuck and i ran today so i sweat everything out so it's going right in oh no you're just you this is like if you just poured coffee in your car
Guest:Like if that's what you're doing right now.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You drove up to the, you just started pouring.
Marc:Engine's empty.
Guest:I'm empty.
Guest:10 gallons of coffee.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's what I used to do when I did radio on Air America.
Marc:I used to have the driver stop at fucking 3.30 in the morning.
Marc:And I'd buy one of the, you know, the kind that people bring to the office and the handled cartons.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, no, those... Yeah, the... I get one of those of Dunkin' Donuts.
Marc:The box.
Guest:The box of Dunkin'.
Marc:Yeah, and I have a bag of M&M's.
Marc:And that's what I... By the time I got on the air, I was like... Crazy.
Guest:I remember one time I was doing a live thing with John Worcester and we're backstage and somebody...
Guest:And I was just, like, so... I needed... I was just, like, dying for just energy.
Guest:And I took, like, a giant coffee, and then I had a thing of peanut M&M's.
Guest:And I'm eating peanut M&M's and drinking.
Guest:And somebody, like, saw me, and they're just, like...
Guest:Like, what the fuck is wrong with you?
Guest:Are you okay?
Guest:And I'm just like... And I'm almost ready to put the M&Ms in the coffee.
Guest:You don't realize what you look like.
Guest:You look like a squirrel.
Guest:You're drinking the coffee and you're so focused.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And I'm just like, if I put the M&Ms in my mouth, then it melts.
Guest:A mouthful of coffee.
Guest:It melts.
Guest:And then I just get the one-two punch of the chocolate and the shell melts away.
Guest:And then I got the coffee.
Guest:And it's just like... It's just the greatest thing.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:It's like flying high.
Guest:Some asshole comes and interrupts you.
Guest:You all right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Somebody look at me.
Guest:It's like, boy, yeah, exactly.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:You all right?
Guest:It's just like, man, I'm doing great.
Guest:You kidding me?
Guest:Look at me.
Guest:This is the best I've ever been in my entire life.
Guest:I got a mouthful of M&Ms and coffee.
Guest:Like, how can I be doing any better?
Guest:It was like the highlight of my existence.
Guest:How are you even asking me that?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:How do you think I'm doing?
Guest:Look at me.
Guest:Yeah, worry about yourself.
Guest:Look at me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:So.
Guest:So you're burning through a lot of a lot of entertainment during this.
Guest:What do you.
Marc:Well, it seems to me like I'm like I liked what you said about Little Richard and Florian.
Marc:What's his name?
Marc:Florian Schneider.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think that made sense that without Little Richard and Florian Schneider that we would have infinitely less good music.
Guest:Well, I mean, it's crazy when you think about, like, you think about, like, influence.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's just like, I mean, like, Little Richard changed everything.
Guest:All of it.
Guest:Like, over and over and just, like, really set the pace for just, like, that kind of performance.
Guest:I mean, there'd be no James Brown and... Ramones?
Guest:There'd be no Prince and there'd be no Ramones.
Guest:All of that stuff came, I mean, let alone Elvis, but it's just like you see the...
Marc:that drive you know yeah there was the fashion of it there was the the showmanship of it but his particular you know groove you know it was even more than in a way it was more than chuck berry there was a the drive of his rock and roll like if you listen to the mc5's tutti frutti you realize like that's it i mean that and then that goes right to the ramones right oh yeah it's a straight line and it's just um
Guest:And it's also funny when you listen to like these other things and they're so thin sounding and compared to the original thing.
Guest:Like sometimes like growing up, I was not like a blues person.
Guest:And then you hear these blues records and then you hear the Rolling Stones version.
Guest:You're just like, I prefer the Rolling Stones version because it's just it's within my frame of reference.
Guest:It's a rock group player.
Guest:But then you hear these... You compare Little Richard's Tutti Frutti with the MC5's version.
Guest:MC5's version sounds just thin and kind of assembled.
Guest:It sounds like you hear them building it in the studio rather than them just playing it live in one room with just...
Guest:Mike's hanging over them just like, yeah, we're done.
Marc:We got in that piano, man.
Marc:I listened to the whole box set yesterday.
Marc:I have that the mono box set of all the first the first five.
Marc:Sure, sure.
Marc:It's just there.
Marc:It was just a drive in his voice.
Marc:And, you know, to me that like I was that I listened to that music when I was a kid.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:That's all I wanted to know how to do on guitar.
Marc:That's all I wanted to do.
Marc:Those three chord things.
Marc:I guess I got to Little Richard through the Beatles.
Marc:My dad played all that shit when I was a kid.
Marc:That was what wired my brain.
Marc:I talked about it on the podcast.
Marc:Just about how, like, my father's excitement about Buddy Holly, Richie Valance, you know, in that American Graffiti soundtrack.
Guest:Oh, my God, that was my father's.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I grew up with the thing, and that was just, like, the... The template.
Marc:Absolutely.
Guest:The Rosetta Stone.
Guest:Oh, please.
Guest:And it kind of is.
Guest:Oh, you listen to that, and...
Guest:It's just amazing the bases that that the just the range of everything that those records covered and they were just it's coming out of like a disposable industry.
Guest:And it's weird how the timelessness came out of something that was just people thinking this isn't going to last two years from now.
Marc:Just, yeah, turn out the hits.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they turn into garbage.
Marc:And you just don't worry about what tomorrow is because we're just trying to make money today.
Marc:On Seven Inch Records, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I had the Dick Clark 20 Years of Rock and Roll collection and the American Graffiti my dad had in the car.
Marc:We had a Buddy Holly collection.
Marc:He loved it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I think I got through, like, I knew Buddy Holly's
Marc:Slippin' and Slidin' before I knew Little Richards.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But those records, all of them, I always wanted to do, if I was going to ever do a music show, I kept thinking about playing the songs that my dad used to like in the car.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That's something I... Wouldn't it be great?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That was the most formative... That's the stuff... It's amazing how simple humans are when it's just like...
Guest:You're going to hear this when you're eight and you're never going to forget it.
Guest:Ever.
Guest:Ever.
Guest:This will stay with you for the rest of your life and will kind of always be your favorite thing, even if you don't revisit it often.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or you don't think it's your favorite thing.
Guest:It's kind of your favorite thing.
Marc:I got a couple of the songs I listened to.
Marc:I downloaded them recently.
Marc:Like, but the thought I had was that this is stuff that my father and I bonded around that my father shared with me.
Marc:But then I realized that it was really one of the rare times where he wasn't upset or yelling or freaked out or, you know, like he was occupied and seemingly excited.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So it wasn't that he was like, don't you love this?
Marc:It was like, hey, this is making dad feel better.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Dad is happy.
Yeah.
Marc:Let's keep playing the coasters.
Marc:I listened to... No, but that was the one.
Marc:He loved The Stroll for some reason, which I think was The Diamonds, and it's got a really weird kind of greasy sax riff.
Marc:You know that song?
Marc:Come and let's stroll.
Marc:He loved That'll Be The Day and all those things, but I listened to Peppermint Twist and The Stroll and Little Darling, which was also The Diamonds.
Guest:Little Darling is one of my all-time favorite songs.
Guest:That is the most rockin'
Guest:It's great.
Guest:Because it's just like, it's overwhelming how much is going on where it's just like, it's like, it's just like, it's happening.
Guest:You're just like, this is the most overstuffed thing I ever heard in my life.
Guest:Oh,
Guest:And then it's like, my darling.
Guest:I need you.
Guest:You're just like, this is like one minute long.
Guest:Who's this guy?
Guest:Everything has happened in this.
Guest:It's really, it's just like, that's that thing that makes a mark on you.
Guest:And then it's amazing that it's just like, I mean, I was obviously not a kid when that stuff was coming out.
Guest:No, no, it was all because of our dads.
Guest:Yeah, but there's something so...
Guest:pure about it that it just isn't like time stamped at all it's just like i mean you can obviously know when it was recorded but just like the but the spirit of it is just yeah the proximity to the source point of rock and roll is close yeah so you know and you got to figure the newness
Marc:of pushing out that way had to fuel that.
Marc:So the purity of it is real, right?
Marc:So if rock starts in 57 or 56, really, by a couple of songs that they didn't even know that's what they were doing, right?
Marc:Delta 88 or Rock Around the Clock or whatever.
Guest:Oh, yeah, like Turner, and they just don't even know what their... Yeah, the critics decided that, right?
Guest:But something happened.
Guest:No, somebody decided...
Guest:It's funny that somebody told the story that it went through someone's lens what this was.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:And clearly there were people watching this story get told and being like, that's not the story.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I was there.
Guest:Like, who's this guy?
Guest:Like, he wasn't there.
Guest:He's backloading some fiction.
Guest:He's the one telling everybody how this went.
Guest:And it's like...
Guest:Even as a kid, the reference thing I can relate to is Rolling Stone.
Guest:I would read the Rolling Stone album guide, and I would just stare at the ratings and the reviews of the stuff.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And then you don't think... It just seemed like there was this... This is just the truth.
Guest:And I'm just like, well, no, that album sucks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because it got two stars in the Rolling Stone.
Guest:Then you meet people, and you just realize...
Guest:There's not some giant all-knowing force called Rolling Stone.
Guest:It's just like magazine writers.
Marc:Yeah, it's just some 24-year-old dick who's like, no, hang on.
Marc:I listened to two songs.
Guest:Yeah, they had to review eight records that day.
Guest:You work on your record for your whole life, and then somebody's just like...
Guest:Yeah, I got to write three record reviews today.
Guest:They're blasting through your thing.
Guest:They're in a bad mood.
Guest:Yours is the last on the pile.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Apparently you didn't do a very good job.
Guest:Who the fuck is this guy?
Guest:Didn't grab me.
Guest:Yeah, but I just always remember it would be just like, yeah, like seeing the story, the people telling the story would be like,
Guest:Like, it clearly had their biases where they were just like, Rolling Stone was just so anti-Zeppelin during the 70s.
Marc:Yeah, I don't, like, I never, you had to find it.
Guest:Hated Black Sabbath.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, all that stuff.
Guest:They hated it.
Marc:I don't know where the hell it came to me.
Marc:Like, I never trusted or never knew to read or, like, if you're going to pick critics, who the hell are they?
Marc:I'd look at Rolling Stone.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But, like, I never, like, I don't know.
Marc:I don't know how I came about.
Marc:Like, I'm relatively new to amassing records.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I know what you're saying, that Rolling Stone, everyone, everyone, they're all curators of some kind.
Marc:Like, so the magazine is not a curator, but they have a context.
Marc:This is what Rolling Stone believes in.
Marc:And this is what we like and this is what we don't like.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You can see that and feel that.
Marc:And it's the same with like guys that I buy records from or when I was a kid who turned me on to records outside my father who set the groundwork, which was good groundwork.
Marc:I mean, I think having been built on the oldies for rock and roll in general, it's good.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:It's all kind of in there.
Marc:But like then as I got older, you know, I had records everyone had.
Marc:Then I inherited some records.
Marc:And then like I had a few hundred records in high school and things were happening in high school.
Marc:And there was a guy in high school that turned me on to the shit.
Marc:But now like.
Marc:I mean, I don't even know what you're sitting on.
Marc:You're like, there's this mysterious thing about you in that, you know, like, how many records do you have?
Marc:And then it's like, oh, my God.
Marc:You know, like, you can't even say it.
Marc:And then I picture there's probably houses filled with records back in Jersey.
Guest:Yeah, there's a lot of records.
Guest:There's a fair amount.
Guest:But like, what are we talking?
Guest:Thousands, I guess.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:I mean, it's all I ever did, you know?
Guest:From when?
Guest:From when I was 10.
Guest:I just started buying records.
Guest:Why are you being secretive about it?
Guest:Are you ashamed of
Guest:the size well it's sometimes it's just I always picture the idea that you spend your life collecting a thing and you're just like don't touch that one that one's thick and then you die yeah and then somebody's just that does it is just throwing all of it in a dumpster with no just like I don't know what this stuff is they didn't buy it at the estate sale
Guest:It's cheaper to throw it to just rent one of these dumpsters they drop in your driveway.
Guest:My brother just going through like, I don't know, do we keep this?
Guest:Yeah, and that's like, I picture that being... I also don't want to get caught up in the...
Guest:I don't know, there's like a collecting side of things that's always been such a bummer to me where it's like, and this sounds like a trite thing, but where people are just like, they lose sight of the music being what this is about.
Guest:Yeah, and I can't do that, and I don't have the room for it.
Guest:So that was sort of the issue.
Guest:I think I have a fear of, I've had a fear of,
Guest:The record's owning me for a while, and it's a scary thing because the records can own you.
Guest:No, I know.
Marc:I've bought things sealed.
Marc:I unsealed something yesterday.
Marc:I'm trying to remember what the hell it is that I opened because I got a sealed copy of it.
Marc:I'm like, who am I waiting for?
Marc:To listen to this.
Marc:I bought this at some point, and it was still sealed.
Marc:But when I go through, I've been listening to all the records.
Marc:I've been primarily to a lot of the records, the older records.
Marc:Because I get hung up.
Marc:I want to time travel.
Marc:I want old records.
Marc:I get sent a lot of new records.
Marc:And I'll listen to them a couple times.
Marc:But rarely, I don't feel compelled to keep new records.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:Do you?
Guest:Unless they speak to you?
Guest:Yeah, unless they're amazing.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Now I'm compelled to hold on to all of it.
Guest:This is why I'm trying to... It's a battle.
Marc:So you're that guy.
Guest:So you've just got... Maybe I'll like it five years from now.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Maybe I've got an amazing thing.
Guest:If I got rid of it, then I'm a real sucker for unloading this thing now if I'm going to want it five years from now.
Guest:It's just like...
Guest:Just say goodbye to it and go get it again.
Marc:But you're right.
Marc:So have you found that that happened?
Marc:So you got all these records that you thought five years from now you would like them, and now it's 10 years later, and you still have the records?
Guest:Yeah, now they're still sitting there.
Guest:There's a certain philosophy that I have where it's just like,
Guest:Isn't it enough that I knew the right things?
Guest:It doesn't mean I read the book or I listened to the record.
Guest:It's like, I knew what the good ones were.
Guest:Isn't that half of... Yeah.
Guest:Isn't that most of this?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I can curate the... But it shouldn't be, though.
Guest:It should just be like... You should be able to be happy with just this little stash of...
Guest:the best stuff and let that be what that is.
Marc:Well, see, but see, I can't, my thing has been like, I'm amazed at how much I don't know.
Marc:So like, you know, when I deal with, you know, I imagine if we spent time together with your records, I would be like, I don't know anything about this.
Marc:And, and I like that feeling.
Marc:So like then, like, how am I going to learn about this?
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:I started this, um,
Guest:In the pandemic, this has been a chance for me to start five new podcasts, which is great.
Guest:Julie Klaus and I started one we're doing.
Guest:What do you do it over the- I do it on a Zoom on my end and she's- Oh, she records good too?
Marc:And then we just sync it.
Guest:Oh, that's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Our producer puts it together.
Guest:That's-
Guest:We're doing that, and that's called Double Threat, but I also started this other one for a bonus thing for Best Show people, and it's me and the producers on the Best Show.
Guest:We're going year by year through Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, through every solo album.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, and it's like... We just recorded this morning for two and a half hours, and I'm just like...
Guest:We're doing two- Why that band?
Guest:Because it's- Oh, so you're going backwards too?
Guest:No, we're going chronologically forward.
Guest:We started with the first episode was everything- Birds and the Hollies?
Guest:The first episode was like episode zero would be like everything before CSN.
Marc:So Buffalo Springfield, the Birds, the Hollies?
Marc:Buffalo Springfield, the Birds, the Hollies, yeah.
Guest:And then we're taking two-year chunks at a time going forward.
Guest:We just did 75, 76, and it was just like-
Guest:It's like one of the worst experiences of my life.
Guest:Stephen Stills made like four albums a year at one point where he was just like... First of all, he recorded every one of his albums in Miami.
Guest:So you just know.
Guest:Jacked on blows.
Guest:No, exactly.
Guest:Running around with guns.
Guest:Yeah, he's just like dressed in like either a football jersey or like dressed as like some paramilitary guy.
Guest:And you're just like...
Guest:And it's just like, but it's like- How's the music?
Guest:Oh, I mean, some of the stuff is like, there's these Crosby Nash albums.
Guest:Right, there's a lot of them.
Guest:They did one like every eight months.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you're just like, you guys are just like, you guys are like, you look like you're dying.
Guest:Like you look at the cover and they look so unhealthy on it.
Guest:And these records are just, and then, but just concurrently, like Neil Young is like- Transcending time.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:He's just like-
Guest:reinventing the whole thing.
Guest:Every album.
Guest:Yeah, like Crosby.
Marc:Crosby's too much, man.
Marc:Crosby is too much.
Marc:Did you listen to the thing I did with him?
Marc:Of the podcast?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it was the greatest.
Guest:He was just like, I'm kind of an asshole.
Yeah.
Guest:Dude, he would have stayed at my house all day.
Marc:But the thing that was amazing about him is I didn't know him.
Marc:Look, I've got plenty of love for Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young and Crosby, Stills & Nash, really.
Marc:I don't, that's the thing.
Marc:Like Sweet Judy Blue Eyes and the live record and Deja Vu, some of it.
Marc:But I listened to it when I was a kid.
Marc:It was formative.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But I didn't know him and I think I tracked him down on Twitter.
Marc:I don't know if I told you this and I get this phone call from him.
Marc:Did I tell you about that?
Marc:No, no.
Oh.
Marc:It's a time and I'm and I'm I don't want to get into it now really because I don't want to betray anybody But yeah something there was something going on between Between him and Graham that involved a woman and these guys are like 80.
Marc:Yeah, right?
Marc:I mean they made some of this more public now some of the like the Here's the thing like yeah, he's telling me you get signs like look man I you know I just don't want to get into that and so if you're planning on getting oh my god
Marc:Number one, I don't know what he's talking about.
Marc:But deeper than that, it's like, who could possibly give a fuck?
Marc:I mean, they're like 90.
Marc:And he's like, let's not get into the chick thing.
Marc:It's like, is there somebody who is actively waiting for this information?
Guest:just they're fighting over a chick girlfriends and they're just like still it's it is insane that these guys first of all it's insane all four of them are alive it's unbelievable like you know god bless all of them they're still yeah all four of the ramones are dead yeah and all four of crosby stills nash and young are alive i don't think stills can hear no i think stills is not doing particularly great crosby's just meeting kids he had
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he forms a band with him.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:And he self-publishes, self-releases his records.
Guest:We got him to call the best show one night.
Guest:We're just doing the show, and then one of the producers, Jason, just starts poking him on Twitter, being like, hey, call up.
Guest:And he just calls up.
Guest:It's the weirdest thing that's ever happened.
Guest:So he's like...
Guest:Hey, man, I just want to say.
Guest:And it's just like, and I had no preparation for it.
Guest:No nukes, man.
Guest:They're like, David Crosby's on line four.
Guest:I'm just like, okay.
Guest:Because I'm talking to David Crosby now.
Guest:And he was, I was just like, I just want to say thank you for calling in.
Guest:And, you know, this one bird song, Everybody's Been Burned is one of my all-time favorite songs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's like, oh, you like the old stuff.
Guest:Okay, okay.
Guest:And then I quick typed DavidCrosby.com.
Guest:I was like, no, no, I like your new album.
Guest:I saw the name of the new album.
Guest:I didn't know the name of the album.
Guest:I didn't know he was going to call in.
Guest:I would have listened to it if I had to.
Guest:I was like, I like Star Sailor.
Guest:Who else was listening to his new stuff?
Guest:And he's like, okay, okay, you like the new stuff.
Guest:And then he just started talking about nukes, right?
Guest:Yeah, he started talking about nukes.
Guest:But he was so like, you just picture him just sitting there.
Marc:But he was one of the fucking first.
Marc:He was like top notch ego monster, just fucking and drugs and just like almost satanic.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Dionasian fucking clusterfuck up there in the hills, you know, he was like the Lord over it all.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was like.
Guest:Those guys were the first people that, like, the hippies were just like, these guys are just out for the money, man.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:The money and the sex.
Guest:Like, they got singled out, just like, they're charging twice as much for concert tickets, and they're just like...
Guest:They think they're rock stars and we're supposed to... They were the first ones to kind of get dragged by the counterculture.
Guest:CSNY really represented this thing.
Guest:They're just like, you guys are fakes and you're not a part of the cause.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Marc:Because back then it was always... Well, that's interesting because...
Marc:That kind of makes sense because I think either the A&R guy, I mean, they were a Geffen project.
Marc:I mean, Deja Vu was David Geffen's, like, one of his first in, I think, in his push.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he's clearly a guy who's going to sell out the fucking hippie.
Guest:Oh, he doesn't care.
Marc:Yeah, he doesn't care.
Marc:But I think they were with him.
Marc:I think Deja Vu is...
Marc:And I'm just, look, what do I know?
Marc:I mean, they were all kind of hanging out, but obviously guys like Geffen saw a tremendous amount of money in the music.
Marc:You know, fuck the cause.
Marc:I mean, you can maintain the illusion, fellas.
Guest:Oh, absolutely.
Guest:No, they were like, because I think Geffen did that big, they did like this big 74 like mega tour where they were playing like
Marc:football stadium right and i think that was a geffen thing but do you do you like any of it i mean really i like some i like because dan's a big crosby solo fan like that i can't remember i love that album what's it called i can't remember if only if i could only remember my name but you like that record yeah i think it's great because that's some serious hippie shit that record
Guest:Yeah, but that's a sad record, too, because his girlfriend had just died.
Guest:Oh, right.
Marc:Yeah, you feel it?
Guest:Yeah, you can kind of feel this is a guy trying to get healed through music, and I think that's in it.
Guest:But then he goes off the rails kind of.
Guest:He goes on the rails and off the rails at the same time.
Guest:Oh, on that record.
Guest:But I mean, just like over the next 10 years, he's like, you can, if you just look at the pictures of him year by year, you're just like, he's aging like a dog.
Guest:It's like every year is seven years.
Guest:Ends with him in jail.
Guest:I mean, it's like, you know, ends with a mugshot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When he's got short hair and his liver's going.
Marc:But here's my thing.
Marc:I'm going through the records.
Marc:I've gone through them all.
Marc:I got new record dividers that are very nice.
Marc:I moved the jazz upstairs, so I had more room downstairs.
Marc:Jazz and comedy upstairs, because comedy is just sort of a guilty pleasure.
Marc:I don't listen to that.
Marc:Well, comedy's like jazz.
Marc:Kind of.
Guest:It's just like, you know what people are always like, my comedy's kind of like jazz.
Marc:Yeah, I can't.
Guest:But jazz you can listen to again.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You're not exactly throwing on a Shelley Berman album again.
Marc:Not too often.
Guest:For the 200th time.
Marc:There's no nuance there.
Marc:It's like, I didn't hear that.
Marc:Did you hear the beat on that?
Marc:It took an extra second before he says, like, there's a woman hanging outside of the window.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:What is the upper limit of how many times you could listen to a comedy record?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Three?
Marc:Well, some of them are kind of like there is one record that I will play for people and it's a Rodney Dangerfield record before he got the hook.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Like it's called The Loser or something.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:It's actually signed.
Marc:I don't know where I got it, but it's where he kind of long form bits.
Marc:So it's like it's Rodney doing this thing that you just don't know him for before he got the respect thing.
Marc:So it's kind of a nice thing.
Marc:Like it's kind of nice to listen to people before they, you know, fully formed.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I think the most interesting thing about comedy records is just the bad decisions people make about the cover art, which I've done myself.
Marc:When you look at comedy records, how did they think that was a good idea?
Marc:Even peers of mine, people we know have record covers where it's sort of like, really?
Marc:You're holding up a thing with a thing and you're making that face?
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:The covers of comedy records and...
Guest:the way a stage is dressed on a comedy special to me are so telling where you come out and it's the giant pencils.
Guest:I've made bad mistakes.
Guest:People are just like, I got props.
Guest:It's like I'm in the playground.
Marc:But they give you these options.
Marc:That's the fucked up thing.
Guest:That's the worst thing you can do.
Marc:Yeah, because it's like with those Comedy Central half hours, you're like, yeah, let us know what you want to do with the stage.
Marc:So my first one, I did two of those.
Marc:And the first one, I'm like, for some reason, I'm like, I want a sideshow banner.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Because I thought, I don't know what I thought.
Marc:I thought it'd be interesting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it just looks weird.
Marc:It's just a fat lady.
Marc:And I'm like, what was I doing?
Marc:What does it mean?
Marc:People are like, what's that?
Marc:Why does he have that up there?
Marc:And then the next one was worse.
Marc:It was worse.
Marc:I'm ashamed of it.
Guest:What was it?
Marc:It's like 2006, I think.
Guest:And I'm like, I want to- Which is not one of your banner years, 2006.
Marc:No, it wasn't bad.
Marc:I was at Air America.
Marc:It was pretty political.
Marc:The set was tight, but it was pretty political.
Guest:So I had this idea- I just mean in terms of you were-
Guest:Because people who maybe don't know your whole thing, it's like you were not.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It was right after.
Marc:I think I just... Was I separated yet?
Marc:It might have been right before we got divorced.
Guest:Because you had the... That was 2007.
Guest:The Air America thing I always look at is like after 2004, it was like... Because I went to that election party, the Air America 2004 election party, which was one of the most... I mean, that to me is... With the launch, you mean?
Marc:The launch party for Air America?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:no no like literally the night of the 2004 presidential election when it was just like oh yeah like when it's like when bush won yeah when bush won and it was just like sam i would talk to sam cedar in the morning and he would just be like he's like carrie's got this in the bag i just talked to somebody yeah fucking that laurencer donald did that to me with hillary too at the fucking bowery i'm like dude is she gonna win he's like oh yeah
Guest:And I just remember being at that party and watching like people like being there.
Guest:I can't remember.
Guest:It was just but it was such I just remember seeing like Rachel Maddow and Liz Winstead.
Guest:Yeah, Liz Winstead.
Guest:And they were people were just like,
Guest:Well, there's counties in Ohio that haven't come in yet, and those are more Democrat- And it was just like, this is over.
Guest:We lost.
Guest:But people were just trying to pull hope from nowhere, and it felt like the Air America thing was just like...
Guest:this place existed to beat this guy.
Guest:And it's like, what's this going to be now?
Marc:You just fight it.
Marc:You just keep pushing against it.
Marc:So yeah, for me, it was fine.
Marc:But the set was the problem where I thought like, I'm going to have a big picture of a herd of sheep going the other way.
Marc:And I'm going to be- You're the sheep going the other way.
Marc:The one sheep.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I'm not going with the herd.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So there's a picture of literally a photograph of the asses of a herd of sheep.
Marc:All right.
Marc:And then somehow I signed off on the idea to have one stuffed sheep on the stage.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And I did that.
Marc:That exists in the world.
Guest:There was a point where somebody said to you, you like this sheep?
Marc:Yeah, put the one out there because that sort of solidifies the message.
Guest:And oh, you just see me standing up there with sheep asses behind me and a big stupid stuffed sheep on stage.
Guest:And in my mind, I'm like, I'm nailing this.
Guest:I'm nailing it.
Guest:Isn't that so funny that you get to the point where you're just like...
Guest:Of course I don't need any of that.
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:Like you needed literally none of it.
Marc:Well, they gave you the option.
Marc:That's what I'm telling you.
Marc:That was their way of personalizing it because they churned those things out.
Marc:The half hours were all shot in one week, sometimes two in a day.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, you know, you kind of, they're like, what do you want?
Marc:We're going to make it your own and whatever.
Guest:So what's backstage look like at that thing?
Guest:There's a giant crib and then there's like.
Marc:I don't remember, but like it was.
Guest:Just like everything.
Guest:comedian has like their thing.
Marc:Well, they're good.
Marc:That's what they put their money into is I guess getting these set changes.
Marc:But what did it take for mine?
Marc:Nothing.
Marc:They put a slide up and they brought a stuffed sheep in.
Marc:We got the slide.
Marc:And the sheep, he's good.
Marc:It's easy.
Marc:This guy's easy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the other time it was just a sideshow banner.
Marc:That was a bad, that was bad.
Marc:Because like I was, you know, I was not sober yet and I came out to LA.
Marc:It was a sad experience.
Marc:I think I was still married to Kim.
Marc:I don't remember what year that was.
Marc:Where'd you tape that?
Marc:At the, like over here in Hollywood on Vine.
Marc:I don't remember what theater it was.
Marc:It was one of those theaters over there.
Marc:Okay.
Yeah.
Marc:the IVAR maybe or something where they I don't remember mm-hmm but uh but it was like that was the year that Hedberg taped his that changed his life that thing he did I was there and it was like he didn't do that well but the kids loved it yeah and I remember they bust in a lot of Samoans I don't know why they were busting in audience members and all I know is that like I'd come out here I knew my material and I watched some of it the other day and it's bad and
Marc:And I wore a black suit with a red shirt.
Marc:I was well groomed.
Marc:And I really was like, I'm going to stay clean.
Marc:I'm going to come out here and just be cool.
Marc:So like the night before the special, I just went over to the guy I did drugs with at that time who was out here and, you know, and Bob.
Marc:I was like, I'll just do a couple lines.
Marc:And then I ended up like up all night, not with him, but just in my fucking hotel room going like, why the fuck I do that?
Marc:And then I do the set and it's bad.
Marc:It's okay.
Marc:Nothing lands.
Marc:Like someone had done a thing on YouTube or written an article, a deep dive into the rabbit hole of me and just all the way up through the current special.
Marc:And I had a long clip of that one I'm telling you about.
Marc:And I'm like, oh my God.
Marc:And there are things I remember loving, loving about that set.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:And so here's how... This was the worst moment about it, though.
Marc:It's like, I do this... It's my first half hour for Comedy Central, and I walk into the dressing room, and I got no friends there.
Marc:Nobody's there except my Coke guy, except for Bob.
Marc:And he's in the green room going, they got roast beef!
Marc:That's what I walk off stage to, is Bob standing there with a plate of roast beef, didn't even say good set, and I was sort of like, ugh, what the fuck have I become?
Marc:No, this is bad.
Guest:I played, I was at Maxwell's for a YOLO tango thing.
Guest:That's one of the first times we had an extended conversation with him.
Guest:Me and you, right?
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Guest:It was one of their Hanukkah shows.
Guest:That's right, and I never felt like I did well with those things.
Guest:That was the night you and I had a long conversation in the hallway at Maxwell's.
Guest:And we decided, well,
Guest:Like we should be friends.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:It's like back then it's just like this thing where like you're like it is such a weird thing where you're just not sure.
Guest:Like especially when you carry so much just like shittiness.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For which I know I do where I'm just like.
Guest:Should I mix it up with this guy?
Guest:Should I like this guy or should I go after him?
Guest:For no reason.
Guest:It's so pathetic.
Guest:And then it's like, oh, no, he's a great guy.
Guest:I like him.
Marc:It was sweaty, too.
Marc:Wasn't it sweaty?
Guest:Oh, it's always hot, the Maxwells.
Guest:Those Yola Tango Hanukkah shows were so crowded.
Guest:And I just remember early on, I tweeted something that was like a weird...
Guest:blind item subtweet thing that like... About what?
Guest:Taking a shot at another podcast.
Guest:Not at you.
Guest:And I just remember Brendan writing me.
Guest:Before I even knew Brendan, he's just like, hey man, are you talking about us?
Guest:And I'm like, no.
Guest:He's like, oh cool, because I like your show.
Guest:And I was kind of like, oh, I like your show too.
Guest:And then suddenly it's like, that's all it took to be just like friends with everybody was just like,
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I was good.
Guest:I was ripping on somebody else.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:I don't like them either.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's exactly it.
Guest:It's just like, yeah, they're terrible.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:We're friends.
Guest:What a sad state of affairs.
Guest:The Rodney thing you were saying.
Guest:I've been watching so much.
Guest:Like he has this YouTube channel up now.
Guest:I guess they're putting a lot of all the Tonight Show clips.
Marc:It's like I said about him.
Marc:I say about him.
Marc:It's like, you know, it's it's odd.
Marc:that in the big picture, in the history of comedy, he doesn't get the respect he deserves.
Marc:He still doesn't.
Marc:And he's great.
Guest:It's unbelievable the level of... It's like him and Rickles covered everything I'm interested in.
Guest:Those two represent all of the comedy I could ever want from a thing.
Guest:And it's like...
Guest:His thing is just so like if you don't if you watch a bunch of the Tonight Show things, you realize like the game within the game that when he would sit down on the couch with Johnny and then just be just kind of like they're just going through just like health.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Dumb kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He just, like, he just, like, and he gets to the... And it's just, like, you could see the amount of fun that they're having knowing that this is a game that, like... All he's looking to do is land one with Johnny.
Marc:And it's, like, he doesn't always land one.
Marc:Because, like, because Rodney, like...
Guest:right out of the gate he's like everything's twitching everything everything is moving on that guy his head his arms his legs he's sweating he's touching himself yeah it's like it's everything's going and it's all funny it's it's the funny the the funniest conceit is that he sits down and then johnny goes how are you and he's like i'm doing good uh last week i was in rough shape though last week
Guest:Rough shape.
Guest:Just the idea that like- I gotta tell you, rough shape, Johnny.
Guest:Last week, I was in rough shape is the funniest thing I've ever heard.
Guest:And then when like one doesn't land, he'll just go like, well, you know, not all funny.
Guest:There's someone just meant to be cute.
Guest:And it's just like, and that just kills Johnny.
Guest:The idea that just like-
Guest:He knows what he bombs.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:He's only trying to land jokes, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's like he's such a package, that guy.
Marc:And then to find out in retrospect, he's been paralyzed with depression.
Marc:Oh, he's profoundly sad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's unfixable.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Richard Lewis used to say he referred to it as the heaviness.
Marc:I got the heaviness.
Guest:Oh, that's heartbreaking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:you can just feel it just like i mean i just think you you feel this guy and there's it seems like there's a part of them that's just like where were you bums when i was trying to make it took me 30 years to get here i hate all of you i had to sell pot out of my trunk yeah and been fucking go get into the lumen inciting business with joe answers because i had fucking kids yeah
Marc:You assholes.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Where were you guys?
Guest:You made me grind it out until I'm in my 50s before you started paying attention.
Marc:Yeah, and everything.
Marc:All he's doing is trying not to get sucked into the vacuum of self.
Marc:Just the darkness.
Marc:He's like, I'm fighting.
Marc:I'm trying not to drown here, Johnny.
Guest:Look at me.
Guest:I'm swimming.
Guest:He just knows to not show the person.
Guest:He just knows.
Guest:He's just like, I'll never show you.
Guest:Once in a while, you get these little glimpses.
Guest:of the act, and where he'll just be like, he'll just say, I got dates, I'm playing over it, I got this movie coming out, Easy Money, and it's a good movie, but I really like doing the live stuff.
Guest:You just know he hates these movies.
Guest:He just knows he's grabbing whatever they'll give him, he'll take, but it's not why he's there.
Guest:The live show, stand-up is what he kept the lights on for the guy.
Guest:And whenever he gets to that moment where he's just like, oh, I played a lot of rough places, it's going to be like Vito's Boom Boom Room.
Guest:It's like formerly Nunzios.
Marc:I'm so glad these... I like looking at those, too.
Marc:I always end up on him, too.
Marc:I like Rickles, too.
Marc:The thing I liked about Rickles is that Rickles, like, almost always...
Marc:on tv appearances would say like 20 of what he said makes no sense at all oh it's it's it's it's just word salad it's like just look at this guy he's got the thing on his head with the two four things in the nine in the and the five uh spaghettios yeah he'll always be like yeah this guy's busy knocking on the door he's trying to tell me he's trying to sell me a pair of pants
Guest:And you're just like, what's that mean?
Guest:The timing was always great.
Guest:He just knows he can, like, ram it through.
Guest:And he knows, like, some of these are nothing.
Guest:I remember, like, watching him do a special.
Marc:And, like, the thing that killed me, I'll never forget.
Marc:He says to some guy up front, and I think it was a play, he goes, where'd you get that suit that come with two pairs of pants and a yo-yo?
Yeah.
Guest:he would go his there was there's this like five i think it's like a it might be like five hours long of him every every like it was like i think it was like every letterman appearance for rickles from yeah from like 83 all the way to when like
Guest:his like final one and it's just like when he came out with the cane when he would be out there already like they would come back from a commercial break he'd be sitting there because he couldn't walk so but he would be like one of the funny it's like one of the meanest and funniest things he did this he would like he would like do variations on jokes where he'd just be like
Guest:He'd be like, you know, Dave, I went to... I was on Jerry Lewis's telethon, and he comes out, he sings, you'll never walk alone, the kids get up and leave.
Guest:And it's just like, that's the meanest thing.
Marc:But he's just like... There are moments where you watch Rickles, and he's filled with real fury.
Marc:You can see it.
Marc:It's all cute, but there's something behind there that's sort of like, oh, my God.
Marc:Yeah, well, he also...
Guest:It must be a thing to know you're the court jester.
Guest:For them.
Guest:For these.
Marc:Did you ever see that one of him just where they set up a makeshift Vegas lounge for him to entertain people in show business?
Marc:Have you seen that?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It was like, I don't know who did it.
Marc:It was a Dean Martin roast or something.
Marc:I think I might have it.
Marc:But they're like, this guy, he's the guy who does this.
Marc:If you've never seen him in Vegas.
Marc:So they created on the set a stage for him to do his shtick.
Marc:But in the audience is Pat Boone and all these weird celebrities of all different kinds.
Marc:And he just goes at them.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:It's crazy because he's sweating.
Marc:How is that not the worst nightmare?
Guest:But it must be the worst and the best.
Guest:He's bulletproof.
Guest:He knows, it's just like, I have the mic, I can say whatever I want, and you people are going to laugh at it.
Marc:He's on the roast.
Marc:His timing was so good.
Marc:When Jimmy Stewart's on the dais, and Rick was like, Jimmy, I talked to the family, you're doing fine.
Guest:Those are always the, oh my God.
Guest:He would like, he, that album, he did this album, Hello Dummy, which is like just the standup.
Guest:And it's like.
Marc:With the song at the end?
Guest:No, at the end of it, there's this speech he always did where it's like, I was in the Navy and we stood on that ship and we looked out and we were all brothers.
Guest:And I don't make fun of little people.
Guest:You're all big people.
Guest:Like he's just like, that's kind of a.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Cop out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he like, there's a point where he's like, he's just showing he could like make fun of anybody.
Guest:It's like, where are you from?
Guest:And the guy's like, I'm Welsh.
Guest:He's like, yeah, let me make you feel at home.
Guest:Cave in.
Guest:Like, so he could just do like a mining joke.
Guest:And everybody is like, I was like, this guy is,
Guest:Just like he can say anything.
Guest:He could spin anything.
Guest:It's all rhythm.
Guest:It's all pace.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's just like force of the words.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like you have to kind of realize how little you need.
Guest:It's like, it's not unlike the specials.
Guest:You didn't, you realize you didn't need a sheep on stage.
Marc:No, you don't need anything.
Marc:And then you're better off without even shooting the audience.
Marc:That was the best thing I started doing.
Marc:Don't ever cut to the audience.
Marc:It's just a trick so you can cut, make cuts.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Why look at that weirdo?
Marc:Like evening the improvs.
Guest:It's like, why am I looking at those people?
Guest:I never want to see the audience in any of those things.
Guest:And it just feels like... You know what?
Guest:I can't stand the comedy specials whenever... There's this thing when somebody will make a reference to just like... They'll basically mention either a gender or an ethnicity, and then they cut to the audience member who lines up with the joke.
Guest:It's like the worst thing I ever saw in my life.
Guest:The two black people?
Guest:Yeah, they're just like...
Marc:There was nothing worse than the audience cuts during, I think Paul Rodriguez did a special in a prison.
Marc:Just horrendous.
Guest:That might be the only one I would want to see audience reactions to it.
Guest:But they would cut, people clearly didn't want to be seen.
Guest:What is for you the ceiling on what is for comedy crowd-wise, size-wise?
Guest:Where do you think it gets lost?
Marc:I would say you start to kind of buckle at 1,200.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I think you can still kind of make something intimate with 1,200 and make comedy real.
Guest:Like you can still reach the back of the room?
Marc:Yeah, but once you get up into like 2,000 or 1,500.
Marc:What was Carnegie Hall?
Marc:2,200.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But that's a different kind of, that room's got like perfect sound situation.
Guest:So that, like when you did Carnegie Hall, you felt like you were reaching the people up top?
Guest:I felt like I did not do well, but I stayed up there.
Marc:Oh, that was a fun show.
Guest:That was such a fun show.
Marc:I never got off stage.
Marc:I did like two hours.
Guest:It was the greatest, because I was sitting there, I was sitting one row behind your mother, and then you just went off, and you did the stuff about your mother, and I'm watching your mother watch this, and I'm like, this is a highlight of my life.
Guest:right now i'm watching this guy reckon with this thing live person and 20 however many thousand people yeah they're joking we're all spectators to this guy finally squaring off with his mother
Guest:Did I do that?
Guest:Yeah, you were just like, because you were doing the whole thing about just like, why don't I get to pull the plug?
Marc:Oh, right, about my brother?
Guest:Yeah, your brother gets the- He's the number one, he gets to pull the plug on her?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, why does he get to kill her?
Guest:But seeing you do that- In front of her?
Guest:To her, it really was just like you could just erase all the, it would just be, it was you and her sitting in Carnegie Hall.
Marc:And then I had the lady bring out my phone to read the email from my father.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I was riffing.
Marc:It's a big night for me to fucking riff for an hour.
Marc:But that's the cap that to you is like, no, but that's a different structure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was, that was tricky.
Marc:I felt the weight of it.
Marc:Like you could like, I can open my, I can feel when I'm open and when it starts to buckle, like I can feel like, like in my heart, I can feel like, Oh no, I got to, it's a fight now.
Guest:Like I'm losing them back there.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Do you feel like you lose, this is so interesting to me, do you feel like when you look at a theater, are you focusing on sections?
Guest:Are you focusing on the entirety of the room?
Guest:Before or after?
Guest:When you're in it, when you're on stage?
Marc:No, like some theaters have a good role to them, and you feel buoyed.
Marc:It really depends also on the acoustics of the theater.
Marc:But when I did a symphony hall, both times I did a symphony hall,
Marc:Three times.
Marc:I did one in San Francisco, I did one in England, and I did a BAM.
Marc:That type of structure that's built for an orchestra, I started to feel like at any second I could get zero laughter.
Marc:And I don't know why.
Guest:Like it was just like that was there was the potential for like the connection to break.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What it is.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Feels just like.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like I'm going to be up here alone and I'm going to hear myself talking and it could happen.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I don't know why.
Marc:But and I think it's my own fear.
Marc:Maybe it's because ultimately that's on me.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like I don't know what what makes me continue to be confident in those moments.
Marc:But even when you're bombing, you've got to keep doing the act.
Marc:so like you you do not and it's a liability it can happen and it's a horrible feeling i don't know why but like i can't open back up and here i am you know not even on autopilot but i'm just doing it but i'm not connecting and now i got to live with this yeah yeah for an hour it's the worst and and to do and and i don't know i i always think what at a symphony hall it's sort of like this isn't built for one you know troubled jew this is built
Guest:This has built a house, a symphony, you know, of people that spent, you know, put together a big thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not me going, oh, God, what is going to happen with, you know?
Guest:And do you feel yourself watching yourself do it?
Guest:I've only had that happen once or twice.
Marc:Like it's like an observant ego.
Marc:Oh, when you leave your body?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The worst.
Marc:Like, literally, you're like, I'm going to go backstage.
Marc:Do what you can.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:I'll meet you back there.
Marc:I'm sorry, buddy.
Marc:I just can't hang out for this.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:But that's funny that this one form caps out at such a relatively low number before you start to feel like you lose the connection.
Marc:That's me.
Marc:I mean, guys do arenas.
Marc:But I still think a lot of that's a cash grab.
Marc:I mean, who the fuck would go see comedy at a football stadium?
Guest:But that's what I don't understand.
Guest:It's just the idea of like...
Guest:When you would have, when there was that stretch where all these people were playing Madison Square Garden and they had like, you know, I think Louie and Amy Schumer and everybody was like, like got to do the garden, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like they were doing the garden.
Guest:And it's just like, that's, what is that?
Guest:15,000 people for a standup thing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If you're not even doing the back, it's over 10.
Guest:So it just feels like there's just such a ceiling on any kind of connection you could have just based on acoustics.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Marc:But you're doing a different kind of thing.
Marc:Your jokes are like, I can't.
Marc:Like I like room so I can fuck off, you know, and, and, and find something new, you know, but if you're tight and your jokes land, like, like you got in order to do that size of room, your jokes have got to land strong.
Marc:You can't just, you know, you can't be thoughtful.
Marc:You can't, you can't be lyrical really.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because like, then you're going to come to the end of it and people are going to be like, is it done?
Marc:You know?
Marc:So, you know, like you'll notice that most of those guys that do the big rooms, they're, they're going to, you know, everything,
Marc:boom boom boom oh yeah it says it's got to be it's a it's like the equivalent of just like just you have to it's like a like if you're going to be a band playing there you have to just keep your thing has to translate yes to the whole room well that's why they play the hits man you know what i mean like yeah it's just got to land and like i mean i could do it and i've gotten better at doing it i did those oddball things for 20 000 people and i when i do it i'm like which jokes do i know
Marc:Close strong.
Marc:And a lot of guys, that's all they think about.
Marc:But some of my jokes are... It's not they don't close strong, but they go a different direction.
Marc:They're more personal.
Marc:But you don't really have that option there.
Guest:No.
Guest:And when you're in a place like that, anything that's subtle can read as not working.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Which is just such a crazy thing.
Guest:But that's the way that is.
Guest:It's just the nature of the thing.
Guest:But with music, it's amazing that there's like...
Guest:There's no ceiling on how big, if you're big enough for the people, you can play to 200,000 people that five people can be playing for 200,000 people and it works.
Marc:Yeah, because music's magic.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because everybody has a relationship different, like with the song.
Marc:And they can listen to it over and over again.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, they're just all amazed.
Marc:It's just it's a whole different thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But it's so funny that when they first started having bands in Madison Square Garden, I remember I think I was talking to Terry Reed, who was opening in a band opening for Cream or somebody.
Guest:I think it was Terry Reed.
Guest:OK.
Marc:And when him and Clapton got into Madison Square Garden, you know, and they were walking around like looking at it, marveling at it.
Marc:It was because they'd seen Sonny Liston fight there on television.
Marc:It wasn't because bands had played there.
Marc:No, there's no tradition.
Marc:This is where the boxers were.
Guest:Yeah, that is so funny.
Guest:It's just because it's an all-purpose entertainment center.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Where it's just like, we'll have Elvis is going to be here, and then there's going to be the Knicks are going to play a game tomorrow.
Guest:And it's just like, then we're going to have a hockey game in here.
Marc:It's just like everything.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, that was the weird thing about Carnegie Hall that I had to realize, too, is as mythic as that place is, most of the time it's not filled.
Marc:It's some Saturday afternoon concert series.
Marc:Yeah, it's a Persian fiddle player.
Marc:But I'm not saying that's bad, but I'm just saying there's so much weight to it, like it's Carnegie Hall.
Marc:But it's like, no one ever goes there.
Marc:It's like they run things every day, four times a week, and they're like, oh, we've only got 12 people in there for the other day.
Guest:For the Persian dance.
Guest:Just this functional concert hall where it's just like, we got to do something here.
Marc:The worst part about that night was like outside of me not feeling great about it was, you know, we, you know, I had, I had my management scrambled to get cats is for everybody and put it in a room upstairs.
Marc:But I wasn't told that, you know, if we're there after a certain hour, they got to pay the union over time.
Marc:So like there was all this meat upstairs and we all go into this room and all these people came up and they were literally like, you got to get out.
Marc:I'm like, what's going to happen to this meat?
Marc:Yeah, it was rough.
Marc:And I didn't realize that the festival was like, we don't want to pay them anymore.
Marc:You got to get out.
Marc:And then me and you walked like 90 blocks.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And Nate Bargetts, he gave me some dip.
Marc:I remember I had a skull pack in and you and I were decompressing.
Guest:No, that was exciting.
Guest:That was just like...
Guest:Took the walk.
Guest:Seeing that whole thing and just you kind of like doing a post-game thing after.
Guest:It was very flattering that you asked me to be there and it was a special night.
Guest:I remember you said you recorded it.
Guest:I did.
Guest:Even though it's not like.
Marc:I can't release it.
Marc:I have it somewhere.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I have a hard time.
Marc:I listen to it.
Marc:That'll be in your box set.
Marc:It'll be in the box set.
Marc:I've talked to Schlissel about putting him out.
Marc:He's got most of my records.
Marc:You know, to put them all out.
Marc:But like, is comedy really like that?
Marc:There are some records I've done like.
Marc:Final engagement seems to resonate with some people because it's like it's such a dark, angry record.
Marc:And I recently talked to Louis Katz, who's a comic who's going through a breakup.
Marc:And he's like, I listened to that thing.
Marc:It was helpful.
Marc:And it was like one of these records where I'm like, I'm going through that separation.
Marc:I'm heartbroken.
Marc:I'm angry.
Marc:I can barely keep my fucking sanity together.
Marc:And I call up Schlissel, who does recording.
Marc:I said, I think I got something.
Marc:You should just meet me in Seattle with the shit.
Marc:And he did.
Marc:And I got the worst comedy club in the world to let me work there.
Marc:And we taped like four shows of me just sort of like in the darkest place in my life.
Marc:And it exists in the world.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, and now it's...
Guest:It's helpful to people that are going through heartbreak.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the comedy equivalent of some of these records.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Marc:Well, this was fun.
Marc:That was great.
Marc:Are we good?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I'm about to have a crash from the coffee.
Marc:Yeah, no, that's how it works.
Marc:I think we got a lot done.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, Tom, take care of yourself.
Guest:You too.
Guest:Stay safe.
Guest:All right.
Marc:So that was me and Tom Sharpling.
Marc:You can hear Tom if you go to the Best Show archives, as I said earlier, at thebestshow.net, or you can listen to his new podcast with Julie Klausner.
Marc:It's called Double Threat, and you can get that wherever you get podcasts.
Marc:Did I mention that I'm getting fat?
Marc:And Tom and I, the other night, as I told you earlier about the gift basket from Pat and Tom and I, I just pulled out the brownies, the cookies, and the brittle and the other thing.
Marc:And Tom and I became human garbage cans.
Marc:No one says garbage as good as Tom Sharpton.
Marc:Now I will attempt some finger picking on a loud distorted Telecaster.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:Okay.
guitar solo
Marc:Boomer lives.
Bye.