Episode 1120 - Dan Levy
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What the fuckadelics?
Marc:What the fucknicks?
Marc:What the fuckettes?
Marc:What the fucknuts?
Marc:I don't even know if I've said that one in a long time.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:How's it going?
Marc:Are you guys all right?
Marc:Are you doing all right, man?
Marc:You, are you doing okay?
Marc:What's going on?
Marc:Snap out of it.
Marc:Don't fucking fall into a hole.
Marc:Look, we're all in this together.
Marc:Most of us who aren't standing on the steps of Capitol buildings.
Marc:Dress like we're prepared for war.
Marc:Random flags.
Marc:Dress like characters.
Marc:Some sort of video game.
Marc:Jesus Christ.
Marc:Where's the demand for more tests?
Marc:No.
Marc:Our sense of freedom in this country is very shallow, almost infantile, very short-sighted.
Marc:Not too many people thinking about the long game, more about like, when can I eat at the place I like?
Guest:I want to eat at the place I like.
Marc:No one can tell me I can't go to Wienerschnitzel and eat inside if I want in my bandana hat with my goggles on and my gun.
Marc:I'll eat hot dogs.
Marc:I don't know where that's coming from, people.
Marc:Is there any to Wienerschnitzels left?
Marc:This is not a paid plug.
Marc:I remember Deweiner schnitzel.
Marc:Do you?
Marc:Get a kraut dog at Deweiner schnitzel.
Marc:Or the Chicago style, which had the tomatoes on it, which I didn't like.
Marc:Or the chili dog, which was okay.
Marc:I was a kraut dog guy, which was weird.
Marc:There was something about kraut.
Marc:When you're in high school, the other fellas were like, kraut?
Marc:I'm like, yeah.
Marc:I was way ahead of the curve in this probiotic business.
Marc:I knew what gut health was back when I was going to the Deweiner schnitzel in high school, getting a kraut dog with mustard, two or three of them.
Marc:They were eating chili dogs.
Marc:I'm like, you guys are going to pay for that shit.
Marc:It's all about the gut.
Marc:It's all about the gut.
Marc:Some of you are asking, what about the hot dog?
Marc:Dude, you know, you got balance.
Marc:Kraut, sausage.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:You want that fight to go on.
Marc:That is the eternal conflict between probiotics and what the fuck did you just eat?
Marc:What's the fuck?
Marc:What is wrong with you, man?
Marc:How are we to even the probiotic bacterias are like, dude, I mean, you make it a little easier.
Marc:Jesus Christ.
Marc:By the way, I'm going to talk to Dan Levy today of Schitt's Creek, the other Dan Levy.
Marc:I talked to another Dan Levy a few weeks ago, Dan Levy.
Marc:Now I'm talking to Dan Levy.
Marc:A lot of you thought that Dan Levy was going to be Dan Levy, but no, it was not Dan Levy.
Marc:Today is Dan Levy.
Marc:Sorry for those of you who were disappointed by Dan Levy.
Marc:No one's more disappointed by Dan Levy than Dan Levy.
Marc:So today, Dan Levy is here.
Marc:It's kind of here.
Marc:I talked to him on the thing.
Marc:Schitt's Creek's fun show.
Marc:I talked to his father, Eugene, a while back.
Marc:I'll talk to Dan Levy about his father, Eugene Levy, and how I did with Eugene Levy.
Marc:I think I did pretty well with him.
Marc:You know, here's the thing.
Marc:I know you're over it.
Marc:Look, I'm over it.
Marc:I want nothing more than to just be able to go do things, talk to people, not wear a mask.
Marc:I'm not even sure what I'd like to do.
Marc:How about socialize in a real way?
Marc:But look, the point is, despite the fact that some states are opening and that the leadership is non-existent or nebulous,
Marc:There's still a lot of virus out there.
Marc:We're all sick of it, I know, but there's virus out there.
Marc:You can't avoid it just because you've decided it's time.
Marc:Your gut tells you, my gut tells me it's okay.
Marc:Fuck your gut.
Marc:I mean, there is some leadership, if you happen to have a decent, thoughtful, empathetic, concerned governor or mayor,
Marc:But the leadership at the top is not giving any impression that they're leading anything.
Marc:Got an email from a guy.
Marc:who's in a nursing home facility.
Marc:He's there for some other reason.
Marc:It's a convalescent home.
Marc:He's convalescing from mental problems with a lot of older people.
Marc:The virus is in the place.
Marc:It's in Chicago.
Marc:And it really made me think that those people are incredibly vulnerable and it's a fucking disaster.
Marc:But Jesus, man.
Marc:The reality for most people right now is that we're without...
Marc:Leadership without guidance and without any prognosis of how this is going to end.
Marc:And so for people in vulnerable situations like nursing homes, long term health facilities, prisons, public housing, it's even fucking more terrifying.
Marc:And this guy is in Chicago, Cook County.
Marc:One in four COVID deaths are at the nursing home.
Marc:So he's got a right to be fearful.
Marc:But as I said before, you know, if you're lucky to live in a state where the citizens are concerned and the majority and that the governmental leadership, mayors and governors and people in the healthcare professions and law enforcement are kind of like on top of the fact that, look, just because you're tired of this and just because what's sort of coming down from the top is that, hey, it's kind of going away.
Marc:It's not really.
Marc:I don't want to be a downer, but hang in there.
Marc:Let's lighten it up a little bit.
Marc:My buddy, old friend of the show and me, we don't talk much, but I always liked him.
Marc:Mike Kaplan, the comedian, that's M-Y-Q, Kaplan, K-A-P-L-A-N Jew, has a new comedy album out.
Marc:Mike Kaplan.
Marc:It's called Mike Kaplan, a.k.a.
Marc:And it comes out this Friday, May 8th.
Marc:He's very funny.
Marc:Very tight writer.
Marc:Interesting man.
Marc:An interesting, funny little man, that Mike Kaplan.
Marc:I don't mean little and little, but he's short.
Marc:And I'm not saying that in a bad way.
Marc:I think he would agree with me.
Marc:You can preorder Mike Kaplan, a.k.a.
Marc:right now at BlondeMedicine.com.
Marc:That's B-L-O-N-D-E.
Marc:blondemedicine.com and mike is myq for reasons myq so yeah that album is going to be funny he's funny and uh enjoy i questioned his like i because he sent me the promo for it and had a goofy cover and i said to him i said i believe that you will regret that cover eventually
Marc:I learned that early on as a comic, but now people don't have physical records that much.
Marc:They do on vinyl, but not even CD cases.
Marc:But there was a time where you just start to realize, like, you know what doesn't age well almost ever?
Marc:Comedy album covers.
Marc:I know you thought it was a good idea to wear that hat or to make that goofy ass thing or to be in that goofy ass situation or to be wearing that goofy ass shirt or making that dumb face.
Marc:But 15, 20 years from now, you're going to be like, Jesus Christ, look at that fucking idiot.
Marc:Almost anybody, go look at some comedy album covers.
Marc:All right, here's the other thing I'm noticing about my life right now.
Marc:This is very specific, but I'm here with Lynn Shelton, who is staying at my house.
Marc:We're not living together.
Marc:Quit pushing.
Marc:Don't fucking pressure me, man.
Marc:But I don't know how you guys are doing.
Marc:There was a time in my life where there seemed to be time and space
Marc:To masturbate.
Marc:Not so much anymore.
Marc:Now, I don't know if everyone else is having this problem.
Marc:I imagine if you're alone, God, who knows what you're up to?
Marc:I mean, if you're alone, you've probably, you know, you've probably chafed yourself or rubbed it down to a nub or over rubbed your nub.
Marc:Now, I'm going to make this multi-gendered.
Marc:Be careful.
Marc:Don't overrub the nub or rub it down to a nub.
Marc:Those are your options.
Marc:You don't want a calloused nub of either kind.
Marc:But I think it's better.
Marc:And again, I'm grateful to be in the position I'm in.
Marc:But it's been nice to lay off it and just deal with the real thing, you know?
Marc:Kind of reconfigure myself.
Marc:Because, you know, I've got to be honest with you.
Marc:If you get too used to the hand...
Marc:That's who you're dating.
Marc:But that, you know, or the machine, whatever.
Marc:Whatever equipment you're using, hand, thing that makes noise, thing you put in, whatever you're doing.
Marc:But sometimes that's okay.
Marc:I'm not judging anybody.
Marc:I just noticed for myself, and I imagine people with wives and husbands and children that, well, you got to go out to the car to jerk off?
Marc:are people doing that i bet you they are garage behind the house what are you doing i just need some alone time you're outside i know i can't hey enough of the jerk off talk it's not okay yet and i'm not a scientist but i'm i'm listening to the people that are smart don't go you know just use common sense it's you still got to be safe you don't want to get this fucking thing man
Marc:It's worse than the flu.
Marc:Jesus.
Marc:Hey, I want my freedom to go sit.
Marc:with some chicken at a place where you eat chicken.
Marc:Fuck this shit, man.
Guest:Finally, I can get a tattoo.
Marc:Finally.
Marc:Fuck, man, when was that gonna end?
Marc:Fucking tattoo par was open.
Marc:I'm gonna go down and get my scamdemic tattoo, said the guy who's gonna have a fever in two weeks.
Guest:Check out my Scamdemic tattoo.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:The guy was wearing a mask.
Guest:I wonder if you could get it from the needle.
Guest:Scamdemic tattoo.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:I'm hot.
Guest:I'm hot.
Guest:Scamdemic.
Marc:So, Dan Levy's a very talented, very funny, sharp kid.
Marc:Sharp kid, this Levy.
Marc:Love his dad.
Marc:Love Schitt's Creek.
Marc:It was nice to talk to him.
Marc:Now you can hear me talk to him in your own fucking ears.
Marc:His show, Schitt's Creek, just ended, but you can watch seasons one through five on Netflix.
Marc:The final season just ended.
Marc:And here we are talking about many things.
Marc:Dan Levy and me.
Marc:So Dan, don't look so confused.
Marc:I'm right here.
Marc:I need you to relax and not look like a guy in the cockpit of a ship.
Guest:That's just my face, Mark.
Guest:That's just my face.
Marc:They're driving a vehicle they don't understand.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:That is my life in a nutshell.
Marc:Where are you?
Marc:Are you here or there?
Guest:I'm here.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm here in the heat, enjoying it very much.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Guest:I have to put my heat, not the pandemic.
Marc:No, the pandemic's not good.
Marc:The heat is OK.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know how long it stays OK.
Marc:It can get pretty bad pretty quickly.
Marc:You got good air.
Guest:Yeah, that's the thing.
Guest:I do.
Guest:Until it breaks.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Or else the entire section of the city.
Marc:The grid goes out.
Marc:Yeah, the grid goes out.
Marc:There's something to panic about at all turns.
Marc:Now, out here in my garage, I had to have it made into basically an apartment, so I have another kitchen out here.
Marc:So I'm cooking in this one to not add extra heat into my house.
Guest:Which I could only imagine makes that tiny room even better.
Guest:I mean, I don't even know if it's tiny.
Marc:It's the first time I've used the oven, so we'll find out.
Marc:Got it.
Marc:I've got a lot going on, man.
Marc:I'm balancing a lot of stuff.
Guest:I mean, I've been such a fan of this podcast that I did not see this kind of dynamic happening.
Guest:I thought I would be coming to you.
Marc:Well, you know, you could have.
Marc:I would have let you.
Marc:It would have been a matter of your comfort level.
Marc:I didn't know how to reach out to you.
Marc:I am incredibly clean and hygienic at this point.
Guest:Gloves and masks.
Marc:Yeah, me too.
Marc:I'm pretty clean.
Marc:But, you know, there's no they make you feel like like maybe I had it and I didn't know I have it.
Marc:And I could like there's like no way to know because there's no functioning testing situation.
Marc:There's no at home test.
Marc:So everybody just kind of wanders through life going like when I had that cough a couple of months ago, was that it?
Marc:Did I have it?
Marc:Am I a carrier?
Guest:I just find myself like sort of self-identifying as a silent carrier just at all times.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, I think that's I just assume that that's that it has never left my body and that I will be walking the earth as a silent carrier for the end of time.
Marc:I think that's sort of what they're anticipating, but I think that's also what they're trying to promote us to think in terms of us being frightened enough of it to act appropriately.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But what I'm saying is that, yes, it is.
Marc:I'm easily terrified, but I have to consciously fight back against fear.
Marc:And this one doesn't this does not seem to be the fight to fight.
Guest:I don't think so, but that's just my opinion.
Marc:So you haven't been going out at all?
Marc:No shopping?
Marc:No nothing?
Marc:You have anything to deliver?
Marc:No.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:No.
Marc:See, I got to go out.
Marc:I'm out running a few times a week.
Guest:I mean, I walk my dog.
Guest:I do sort of the, I do like a six to eight block circle around my house, but that's really been it.
Guest:I went to my old apartment to pick up some mail, and that was the first time I had been beyond my neighborhood in
Guest:Two months.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And I sort of like wandered out like Mr. Burns, like radioactive Mr. Burns, like into the into the world, like big eyed and just completely disoriented.
Guest:It was very strange.
Marc:It's all very strange.
Marc:And I don't know where it's going to end.
Marc:But we do know it's weird.
Marc:You know, what's going to happen when everyone's watched everything that's already been made?
Guest:There will come a point where people have gone through the 900 million hours of Netflix content.
Guest:And then what?
Marc:Unbelievable.
Marc:Chaos.
Marc:So, OK, I talked to your father.
Marc:He came over to my other house.
Guest:It was the greatest, most enjoyable conversation.
Guest:I had such a nice time listening to it.
Guest:And he was so eloquent.
Guest:And he's I mean, he has a mind that is constantly sort of moving and shaking.
Guest:So it's hard to get him to kind of focus.
Marc:Uh huh.
Guest:He can talk and talk and talk.
Guest:And I found that the conversation that you two had was so clear and he was so focused and and in the moment and his brain was so he's he's a daydreamer.
Guest:So to get him kind of
Guest:Really clear is is a wonderfully rare and lovely thing to listen to.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:So so the character in the folk singing movie.
Guest:Not too far.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:probably his biggest stretch from an outward perspective, but from, from a family member perspective, very close to home.
Marc:What was that one called?
Marc:Something wind, uh, mighty wind.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's so funny.
Marc:But so you grew up all in Canada mostly or what, or here?
Guest:Mainly in Canada.
Guest:I mean, we'd, we'd sort of come for spring break and we'd come for, for the summertime.
Guest:Um, but he made a choice way back when to, uh,
Guest:to keep us in Canada and protect us from, from, from this precarious lifestyle of Hollywood, the gaping maws of this horrendous shithole from, from like going to crossroads or whatever.
Marc:So, but your folks are still together.
Guest:Yeah, that's nice.
Guest:It's very nice.
Marc:Are they up in Canada?
Guest:It's very nice.
Guest:It's a nice example to sort of set, although at this point, completely unrealistic.
Guest:Right.
Guest:For me, at least so far.
Guest:Um, they're here, they're here now and they go back and forth.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because I'm thinking like, and I think I talked about this with your father, just in terms of politically that it must be nice to know you can go there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like on some level, this isn't your problem.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In a way.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:There's, there's so many different layers to it.
Guest:Cause at the same time, I feel like being here as a Canadian who has, um, healthcare and understands the benefits of it.
Guest:It's almost more, I mean, you know, people in America who understand the benefits of it are frustrated.
Guest:But to actually come from a place where you know how positive that impact is.
Marc:On the society.
Guest:On the society as a whole.
Guest:It has nothing to do about infringement on rights.
Guest:In fact, it's quite the opposite.
Marc:Well, Americans are not, you know, for the most part, capable of really, you know, having any foresight.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or they don't know how these things apply to them.
Marc:They don't even understand the paperwork.
Marc:You can't get most of them to fill out the fucking census, Dan.
Marc:But go ahead.
Guest:It is a tough brain teaser for a Canadian to be here and hear about kind of rights associated with health care.
Guest:It's just a difficult thing.
Marc:You don't believe in the insurance company's rights to gouge the consumer to the point where they can't afford to go to the doctor?
Marc:That's an American freedom, Dan.
Guest:It is so free.
Guest:I can't think of anything freer than that.
Marc:But that's a curious question.
Marc:I don't think I've asked anybody this question.
Marc:I mean, as a Canadian, when you go to the doctor here, does do you call Canada and they cover it?
Marc:How does that work?
Guest:No, I mean, I'm fortunate enough to have health insurance.
Marc:Oh, right, because through the union, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Recovered it, yeah.
Guest:No, it's, I don't know the actual, then again, you're asking the wrong person because I really have no idea.
Marc:Do you have dual citizenship or are you all kinds of?
Guest:I don't, no, no.
Marc:So you have the union coverage here?
Guest:I have, yeah, I have SAG insurance here.
Guest:which is at this time a real blessing.
Guest:So there might be, to be perfectly honest, there might be ways of writing off your health expenses here, but I'm not really good with details.
Marc:I always wondered that.
Guest:I don't read the paperwork, to be honest.
Marc:I don't understand anything.
Marc:I don't understand where my money is.
Marc:I could barely log into this conversation.
Guest:That's just an indicator of where I'm at, generally speaking.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because I've wondered that when I was in Canada.
Marc:Like, I guess if I'm shooting in Canada on a thing and something went wrong, you know, they would somehow manage to take care of me.
Marc:But I always wondered if I was just a guy in Canada with this insurance here.
Marc:You know, not a conversation for you.
Marc:So...
Marc:We don't need to.
Guest:I think credit cards cover a little bit of travel, health insurance as well.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, thank you.
Guest:For those out there that were interested.
Marc:I will call Amex after this and make sure that you're right about that for when I'm able to move to Canada next year.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:I'll at least be covered for the first bit of time on my Amex.
Marc:We'll go back with you and we'll all live in a nice commune in Canada.
Marc:What town?
Marc:What city did you grow up in?
Marc:Toronto.
Marc:Well, that's like a big, nice city.
Marc:But the weird thing is, like, and I talk about this before, like, and maybe you can like here's.
Marc:OK, so I used to go to Canada and I think like, well, this is kind of like America without the panic thing.
Marc:And just ingrained fear that moves through the culture.
Marc:And I still think that's true.
Marc:But back then I thought it's a little slow, it's a little boring.
Marc:But now I go back up and I'm like, this is how humans are supposed to interact.
Marc:And I know that Canada has its problems, clearly, in terms of bigotry and mistreatment of indigenous people, like some of the same problems we have.
Marc:But I think the basic...
Marc:Underlying fact is that if people are sick, they can go to the doctor.
Marc:If they're dying, they'll be taken care of.
Marc:And that takes a load off societally.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Even just getting stitches and going in to the emergency room and having them not having to worry about it.
Guest:I got stitches here and it cost me three thousand dollars.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Because I went to the wrong emergency room.
Guest:that wasn't covered under my insurance company oh you went to uh you went to an urgent care i went to an urgent care with my finger like sliced open and the person behind the desk after i had obviously paid and gone through the whole thing just said you know you should have just bandaged it up and gone to a walk-in clinic the next day because you would have paid less right and i just kept thinking to myself so that's what that's how this works we just have to like
Marc:basically sever our fingers off bandage it up temporarily for a night and hope that the next morning everything's fine you gotta work your own angle here man that's what's going on with the coronavirus they can't even supply hospital supplies to states because they're like let them get it on the free market let's make this shit work it is
Marc:But my talking about Canada is like now, you know, what I used to think was boring, I find very comforting.
Marc:And I feel that maybe I'm maybe I'm romanticizing, but it seems like there is an element of tolerance and integration in Canada that is sort of, you know, passive and not confrontive.
Marc:And people seem to cohabitate and live multi ethnicities without the same kind of tension we have here.
Marc:Is that correct?
Marc:In your experience?
Marc:Yeah, I've been talking about it recently.
Guest:I can't speak really for the country as a whole because I've come from Toronto, which I think is a very big liberal city.
Guest:I'm sure that there are...
Guest:terrible things happening to to people across the country um that are just not being quite as widely publicized as what's happening in america you mean like in up up in the uh in the rural areas with the french hillbillies one one never knows but i think to have had gay marriage passed so early on um you know for me i just keep thinking
Guest:my high school experience was very different because when I was bullied in school or when I was feeling isolated because of the fact that I was gay, I knew when I went to bed at night that my country was on my side, that my country recognized my rights.
Guest:I couldn't imagine what that high school experience would be like.
Guest:And I had very open parents who I knew would be accepting of who I was.
Guest:The struggle was really kind of mine at the time.
Guest:in terms of when and how I would tell them.
Guest:But I couldn't imagine being bullied in school or having parents at home who were not supportive and then laying your head on your pillow, knowing that your own country doesn't think that you are deserving of love.
Guest:I mean, that is a really...
Guest:intense reality to experience.
Guest:And I feel like in a way- And an oppression.
Guest:Yeah, it only exacerbates that kind of loneliness.
Guest:So even in sort of subliminal ways where you're not actively thinking about that at the time, those are the messages that are being sent out which I think send really damaging shockwaves
Guest:to minority communities who are not feeling seen or respected.
Marc:It's a pretty tough thing.
Marc:And then, you know, to compound seen or respected, then they no longer feel safe.
Marc:Well, of course.
Guest:Yeah, and I mean, you know, I think safety is a totally different thing in Canada and America because we don't have the kind of... I don't even know how to describe the gun culture here.
Guest:But safety, I mean, quite literally...
Guest:The gun laws here are so
Guest:horrifying that people do fear for their safety quite literally because who knows who's holding a gun.
Guest:It's become very clear that people using those guns oftentimes rarely have any repercussions to face once they've used them, particularly on the African-American community here.
Marc:The big plan for the gun people is that they think if everyone has one, shit will just work itself out.
Guest:Which is such... It's like... In Canada, I feel like there's a passivity to any kind of bigotry or intolerance.
Guest:It might exist, but it's not quite as activated as it seems in America.
Marc:Well, yeah, it seems to be happening a little bit, though.
Guest:People are very angry here and very... It's like that, you know, walking dead picture of those protesters against the glass in the middle of a pandemic screaming for their freedom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean...
Guest:What do you do now with those people who will inevitably get sick and need a ventilator?
Marc:Yeah, we'll see.
Marc:I mean, it does seem to be there seems to be isolated events of massive gun violence in Canada, but culturally it's not an issue.
Guest:Well, recently, like even just this this week, there was the biggest shooting in Canadian history.
Guest:Yeah, it's awful.
Marc:So when you came out, like what was like when you speak of a struggle to figure out how to talk about it to your parents, what is how does that work?
Marc:Like what was going through your mind, a timing thing or, you know, how to present it or.
Guest:It's such a I mean, if you think about the fact that nobody else has to proclaim who they are sexually attracted to.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Nobody other than members of the LGBTQ community have to publicly proclaim who they are attracted to.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And when you're in your teens and you're struggling with your sexuality and you're struggling with sexuality, just generally speaking.
Yeah.
Guest:It is such an unnatural and oddly inappropriate thing to ask a teenager to do.
Guest:So I think just generally.
Guest:Declare yourself.
Guest:Step forward.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Like it's embarrassing to, you know, to talk about that if you're insecure about it in the first place, let alone have it be a proclamation that others you in some way in the big sort of social world.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The layers are like you're in terms of like being out in the world as a sexual being is not really happened yet.
Guest:And like ask any kid if they were if they want to run up to their parents and say, hey, I'm attracted to this kid in my class.
Guest:Like no one's doing that.
Guest:So then to have to say it as a teenager and not only are you saying I'm attracted to this kid in my class, but I'm also attracted to this kid in my class who is of the same sex.
Guest:And that opens up a whole other can of
Guest:internal concerns and oftentimes external concerns depending on your relationship with your parents and your parents' belief.
Guest:I think in the back of my mind, I knew that my parents were going to be accepting.
Guest:I knew that deep down, but there's still that kind of fiber of adolescent doubt or even for adults there's a level of doubt because you don't know how people are gonna respond and you've been almost conditioned through what you see in the media to be met with persecution of some kind.
Guest:So there's so many different layers to the experience that lead to this almost, in my case, I was overthinking the experience and fearing what if...
Guest:This does put a wedge in my relationship with my parents.
Guest:What if it does make them think of me differently or think of me less?
Guest:Not that that ever would have been the case.
Guest:But those are the fears that you go through because your brain is not fully developed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you're just trying to grapple with, you know, with the reality that is slowly coming to you in little spurts and bounds.
Marc:There's no there's really it's rare that there's confidence on any level, you know, let alone this.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Defining.
Marc:I'm still not a confident person in any regard.
Guest:So to think back of me as a teenager, I mean, my mom asked me if I was gay.
Guest:I couldn't even do it back then.
Guest:And I was very grateful that she found that opportunity and found an opportunity
Guest:to talk about it that felt open, and she didn't impose it upon me.
Guest:It was really the right time, and I think I needed that kind of hand-holding through the process.
Guest:A lot of people did it without that, and I really admire that kind of strength.
Guest:I needed some help from my parents.
Guest:I needed them to almost say, we know what's going on, and we're okay with it.
Guest:just let's be out with it because I feel like it's affecting your morale.
Marc:Yeah, and was it a load off?
Marc:Yeah, it was a huge, I mean, you're hiding your complete identity.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So who are you in the world?
Marc:Your mom just came out of nowhere and was like, can we talk?
Guest:We were having lunch, and she just, yeah, she asked, and I said yes.
Marc:Over lunch, and then you finish your lunch.
Guest:Over lunch, yeah.
Guest:And she was really great about it, and she asked if I wanted her to tell my dad, and I said yes.
Yeah.
Guest:And so she did.
Guest:And then my dad very emotionally, you know, told me that he loved me and that it didn't change anything.
Guest:And
Guest:You know, it's very lucky.
Guest:I'm very lucky to have that kind of support around me.
Marc:Oh, yeah, for sure.
Marc:I couldn't imagine it, especially having talked to him, that it would be anything different than that.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:That would be a strange 180 for Eugene Levy, I think, to come out as just a giant homophobe.
Guest:That would not, no, that does not track with him.
Marc:Yeah, he seems to be processing, you know, every moment of his existence as something surprising.
Guest:is that agreed but it's a he's a remarkable creature yeah he really is yeah and it's it's it takes those kinds of of
Guest:wonderfully strange minds to come up with the kind of work that I think he has.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And, you know, you seem to have some genetically and also natural proclivities yourself in the comedic way that like I can't, you know, I mean, I can't imagine, though, like in my mind, which is usually wrong.
Marc:I mean, were you as a child?
Marc:Are you you have sisters, brothers?
Guest:I have a sister.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A younger sister.
Marc:Were you guys, you know, was the SCTV gang sort of your family to you in any way?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Even the I mean, even the members of that group that were not around us all the time, even just the conversations were so.
Guest:just around.
Guest:I mean, these people lived in our home.
Guest:We watched episodes of SCTV.
Guest:My dad would kind of put them on for us.
Marc:They lived in your home?
Marc:Who lived in your home?
Guest:Well, I mean, lived in the sense that they were, you know, we have, you know, back in my parents' house, my dad has just a rose upon rose upon rose of every single VHS SCTV episode.
Guest:So, you know, some nights my sister and I would ask my dad to kind of pick an episode that he liked and we'd put it on and watch it.
Guest:So by in our homes, I mean that these faces and these personalities sort of existed all around us.
Guest:And, you know, I think Marty Short has been...
Guest:friends with my dad since before they were
Marc:when they were living in Hamilton, Hamilton, I got, I got in trouble in Hamilton with the, with the people of Canada.
Marc:Oh, what happened?
Marc:Well, nothing.
Marc:I was shooting there and I, and I, and I explained, I think on Twitter, on Instagram, exactly what Hamilton is without being even nasty.
Marc:And somehow it became clickbait at CBC somewhere.
Marc:And then it became like, who is this outsider speaking negatively about this shithole?
Marc:Wow.
Wow.
Marc:Hamilton.
Marc:I had to learn about the beautiful history of Hamilton and that it's trying beautiful, rich history.
Guest:Hamilton has certainly over the past, I would say, 15 years come up as a place where young families are now living because I think it's a slightly more affordable.
Marc:I understand exactly what's happening there.
Marc:But my observation was there is a a type of of of.
Marc:You know, poverty and derelict and drug addict sort of culture that is very in parades in a way that I hadn't seen in a long time.
Marc:It's sad, but it is what it is.
Marc:You know, there it is.
Marc:That is definitely a side of Hamilton.
Guest:Yeah, there is.
Guest:You're driving through some stuff every for sure.
Guest:When we would visit my dad's great aunts, we would take the trip.
Marc:Oh, so you had that thing.
Marc:So there was like a Jewish kind of community.
Marc:You'd go see the Jewish great aunts in Hamilton?
Guest:Yeah, we would go like once a month or once every couple months to visit my dad's great aunts.
Guest:They lived in a very...
Guest:classic sort of 60s, 50s, 60s, 70s kind of apartment complex.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:That smelled like weird food.
Guest:Yeah, and a little bit like mothballs and someone's cooking.
Marc:Oh, it's so nice.
Marc:So nice that you had that.
Guest:Yeah, and we would go, and they used to live very close to each other.
Guest:Both aunts lived around the corner from one another, and we would go and spend the afternoon.
Guest:Oh, it's so nice.
Marc:It's so nice that you had that.
Marc:What were their names?
Marc:Auntie Ray.
Marc:and Auntie Mary I just love that the notion of that because you know I have the you know when I was growing up the older Jewish relatives that live in these places that have a certain smell to them and there are other old you know Jews living there and it was just you know it was just other generation and it was sort of strangely you know comforting and timeless but you know it definitely does something to your character to be able to engage of course and they would I mean my Auntie Ray would cook
Guest:these sort of Jewish delicacies that only she could cook.
Guest:Like my aunt,
Guest:has tried to recreate the recipes and for some reason it just, I mean, she's done it well, but it's not quite the same.
Guest:There's a magic to that world, the legacy of these women.
Marc:There is.
Marc:My aunt, my mother's sister can make my grandmother's chopped liver pretty well.
Marc:And I don't even know if these people are generally great cooks, but there is something comforting about it because you grow up eating that stuff only at their house.
Marc:So it's not about how skillful they are.
Marc:It's about, you know, what they put into it and the entire environment of that.
Guest:It's such a sensory experience, too.
Guest:I can remember everything about it.
Guest:I can remember the taste of the food.
Guest:I can remember what her apartment looked like.
Guest:I can remember the kind of plastic on the couches and the...
Guest:just how kind of warm and inviting that space was.
Marc:And then you get this window into, you know, who your father is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, like, you know, this, you know, these are the people that when he was a boy, these were the people that, you know, they all lived near each other right back then.
Marc:So there's this like community thing that doesn't exist anymore.
Marc:Like everybody lived, you know, five miles from everybody else.
Marc:Not even.
Marc:And that's what Hamilton used to be, huh?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, you know, he and Marty, I guess, were living in Hamilton when Godspell first came to Toronto.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:convinced Marty to audition.
Guest:And they both got the job, and then that production of Godspell in Toronto became this kind of legendary production.
Guest:Victor Garber, Andrea Martin, Paul Schaefer.
Guest:So it's amazing to think back to that time, especially in the early days where he was just a cool kid in Toronto, just lightened the comedy scene on fire with all of his friends, who just happened to be world-class
Marc:legendary comedic voices that wild and it's happened in Canada before I mean you know it happened again kind of I mean comedy in Canada that's why it's kind of looking at and where I was sort of going with my slightly condescending statements about Canada's boringness is that the the interesting thing even looking at you know how you came up in show business that there is a Canadian show business
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And I used to say that because of the state-run networks that if you are a comedian or an actor in Canada, eventually you'll get your turn.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:If you work hard enough, you will find your place.
Guest:For a couple of years at least.
Guest:The amazing thing about Canada is that the industry is not quite as polished as it is in America.
Guest:So what you are able to do in Canada is try your hand at everything.
Guest:And you have to try your hand at everything.
Guest:And what did you start with?
Guest:I started as a host on MTV before, like when you were a kid.
Marc:Now, like now, who are the people that so you brought your father and Marty are tight.
Marc:But I mean, like, I mean, Catherine, who I've also talked to, I've not talked to Marty.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:But I talked to Catherine, who I love a lot.
Marc:Are she someone that you grew up knowing?
Guest:Well, she was in Los Angeles for a lot of it.
Guest:So I would see her sort of sporadically and obviously know of her.
Guest:I think once I became a teenager and, you know, my dad and Chris Guest started writing their movies.
Marc:Did you know him pretty well?
Guest:I mean, I've met him over the years.
Guest:You know, once my dad and Catherine started to work together on those movies, I saw more of her.
Guest:But it was always...
Guest:peripherally, and it was always in the context of work or
Guest:potentially, you know, at a group gathering, some kind of social gathering.
Guest:But it was never it was never like the shorts.
Guest:The shorts are essentially extended family.
Marc:That's what that's that's what I sort of was wondering, because I always want like, you know, it's still this weird thing I hold on to in some kind of, you know, fan ish kind of way that when these groups of people who have done such great work together, I always kind of want or imagine them hanging out together.
Marc:But they never do.
Marc:They never do.
Guest:Well, I think Catherine, my dad and Marty hang out a lot.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Um, Marty, you know, lives around the corner from my parents' house and is just, I mean, it's like a sitcom.
Marc:Just they're either over at his place or he's over at theirs.
Marc:They walk in the back door, look in the fridge, that kind of shit.
Guest:It's really lovely to think about.
Guest:Cause I, in my, in my mind, I always go back to just the time that they've had together and the years that they've spent together and the fact that they have ended up blocks apart.
Guest:It's just very cute to me.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:It's like we were talking about, it's like your aunt's.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's comfort.
Marc:Oh, no, for sure.
Marc:So but like for you, it was not starting out.
Marc:You you didn't you weren't thinking in terms of comedy.
Marc:Where were you?
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:I was I did theater a lot.
Guest:Like I was always kind of putting plays together.
Guest:I put my elementary school play, produced it and wrote it, adapted it and put it on.
Guest:So I was always kind of making things in the theater world.
Guest:world and in high school i you know we didn't have a drama program because our teachers were on strike so my friends and i produced all the theater in our high school and adapted you know clue for the stage and did these really kind of fun productions you're a theater guy you're a theater kid i was a theater kid in high school yeah and then had such crippling anxiety about auditioning for acting and in
Guest:university that i just went into film production instead thinking it was close enough to the theater program probably more practical perhaps i could i suppose i really didn't like it at all um and eventually ended up dropping out for a job on mtv but yeah it's amazing how confident you can be in chapters of your life and then how completely anxiety ridden
Guest:and unsure you could be in other chapters.
Guest:It's quite amazing.
Marc:As somebody who has really kind of clawed it out in show business, was there any sort of concern or warnings from your father about pursuing that?
Marc:No.
Marc:God, they really are supportive.
Guest:They are very supportive.
Guest:I think to an extent that I was not wanting to necessarily associate with, I think growing up,
Guest:Especially in high school, in the plays that I was doing, my dad would always ask if I wanted help, and I would always say no.
Guest:Because I think when you have a parent who is well-known, you try your best to separate and to be identified as something other than... Sure.
Guest:you know, Eugene Levy's son, which I know is sort of an easy thing to put a label on, you know, on someone and judge them accordingly.
Marc:You know, just be happy that you're in the world you're in and you're not Jacob Dillon or Sean Lennon saying like, you know, I'm just going to be a singer songwriter, but I'm going to be my own guy.
Marc:You know, I think you got it.
Marc:I had the freedom to do that.
Marc:You got a little easier go of it.
Guest:exactly um so you know for years i would just keep saying to my dad no i don't i don't want your help no offense but no and uh
Guest:And then, you know, after eight years on MTV.
Marc:Well, let's talk about that a minute.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Before we get to you approaching him.
Marc:Like, I remember the first time I went to Canada to work for the festival or whatever.
Marc:And I, you know, I did some stuff on Canadian MTV.
Marc:I'm like, oh, my God, this is just like ours, but not as exciting.
Marc:Like they have everything that we have.
Marc:Only I don't know who these people are.
Marc:And they seem to be a lot nicer here.
Marc:You know, it was.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That's exactly what it was.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And a lot scrappier.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because I remember where the building was.
Marc:The MTV building was like on a main street.
Guest:It was on Young Street in the Masonic Temple.
Guest:It was an old Mason's temple.
Marc:And they had like a studio right when you walked in.
Guest:It was a whole kind of vibe thing.
Marc:Roundabout.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was in the round.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So how do you get that gig?
Marc:And was that satisfying to you?
Guest:In ways, yeah.
Guest:I mean, if I'm kind of connecting the dots of my life, yeah, I think it was a pretty crucial chapter.
Guest:I never felt comfortable interviewing celebrities.
Guest:I didn't quite... I was better at the talk part of it.
Guest:I liked, you know, we had a little talk show for a while, and that was really nice.
Guest:I got the job...
Guest:A friend of mine was auditioning for it.
Guest:I had just gotten back from six months living in London where I had kind of moved to get over a bad relationship and try and find myself because I was not a very confident person.
Guest:And I came back from this kind of eat, pray, love situation in London and had a little bit more confidence than when I left.
Marc:What did you do in London?
Guest:I worked for a talent agency.
Guest:I worked for ICM.
Guest:um in london for a bit which was just you know a job that happened to to come to me um while i was out there and and very quickly learned that i did not want to be an agent that's good that was that was learned that the first day um you have to have a you have to have a slightly compromised conscience to be an agent
Guest:You have to be something.
Guest:But answering phones and working in the office, and those offices are intense, and it takes a type of personality to succeed in that kind of environment.
Guest:So it really, in a way, forced me out of my own
Guest:you know, self consciousness.
Guest:And by the time I got back to Toronto had some kind of, you know, fiber of confidence to walk into this audition.
Guest:And at the time, I think they were they were putting together a reality show for finding the next MTV host.
Guest:So we were all given $100 and told to go out and spend it and come back and, you know, talk about what you spent your money on.
Guest:And so people came back with Sarah McLachlan CDs and a yoga mat.
Guest:And I had nothing but a receipt in my hand.
Guest:And the producer said, well, you don't have anything.
Guest:And I said, well, I paid my cable bill for the next two months.
Guest:So thank you for that.
Guest:Because if this goes south, I wanted to come out of it with something.
Guest:And someone there seemed to think that that was...
Marc:Hilarious.
Guest:A ballsy move.
Guest:And I ended up getting the job.
Guest:But to your point, you know, it was a young upstart network.
Guest:We were producing our own material.
Guest:We were writing our own material.
Guest:We were editing our own material.
Guest:And that kind of freedom doesn't necessarily happen on American television.
Guest:And I think in talking about, you know, Canadian comics, I think it can be applied for for a lot of people in Canadian entertainment.
Marc:I think it's you are like I've talked to guys.
Marc:I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that that there is a factor, the state run element to the media there that enables creators to just, you know, a lot of there's no kind of capitalistic hierarchy that says, you know, this has to be a hit.
Marc:They're sort of like, well, this seems interesting.
Marc:You guys go ahead and make try it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And it lends itself to a kind of practical experience that a lot of people don't necessarily have here because you're only doing one specific job.
Guest:So if you're a host on television, you're reading copy.
Guest:You're not necessarily in the edit bays cutting your own tape.
Guest:I know that it happens in news quite a lot.
Guest:But that kind of hands-on-ness, I think, really leads to a scrappiness when Canadians end up making their way to America because they've really done everything.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And it's a hands-on education that you wouldn't get if you were working in Hollywood.
Marc:You'd have to be a PA forever.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But also you were coming up a little before it was real easy with technology, right?
Marc:It was before that you could make an entire feature on your phone.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But so, okay, so you become like a, so you're the host guy, you're getting confidence.
Marc:I think it's funny that you were working at a talent agency answering phones and that somehow or another you came out of that more confident as opposed to less confident.
Marc:It's a...
Guest:You mean like just pummeled to the ground, emotionally speaking?
Marc:I think it speaks to your character that you were like, fuck this.
Marc:I'm not going to do that.
Guest:I have a very practical mind, Mark.
Guest:For me, it was like I was not able to pick up a phone.
Guest:That was the level of my social anxiety.
Guest:I got...
Guest:Very scared about picking up a phone.
Guest:So for me, I have to fix that if I want to get to where I need to be.
Marc:Cognitively.
Guest:And so I'm very practical about fixing kind of problems that I see for myself as being hindrances to getting me closer to where I need to be.
Marc:Well, I guess that's the point, right, is that it's practical, but it's also courageous in the sense that if you realize the obstacle and then you choose to take it on on your own volition...
Marc:Yeah, that's practical, but that's also, you know, like, if I don't get over this, I'm going to be crippled by it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I'm a firm believer that most experiences are worthwhile experiences, and I think that's what I went into that, you know, chapter of my life, hoping.
Guest:And I also think, you know, when you are in your early 20s and in a weird kind of relationship that's not making you feel very good, you also kind of have this
Guest:fire to change your life yeah um you know i feel like everyone in their early 20s has gotten that spark to just like i need to shave my head and move to morocco oh yeah i did that i did that through my 30s i you know there's a lot of attempts at uh identity you know yeah yeah so you know good or bad they tend to shape us in one way or another do you now how's the anxiety now you all right did you have to medicate or
Guest:No, I didn't ever.
Guest:Although I did try and do like natural, like herbal things.
Guest:And I tried to, I tried to go the natural route because I didn't feel like it was, I didn't, I wasn't crippled to the point where I felt like I needed medication, medication.
Guest:And I think it really came down to just some people find their footing later in life.
Guest:And I think the more that I,
Guest:Learned and the more that I put myself out there, the more confident I got.
Guest:And then I think when you experience a level of success doing something, in my case, those first, you know, eight years at MTV built me into eight.
Guest:eight years of talking about the hills.
Guest:So you are forced to really examine your life.
Marc:You definitely know how to improvise then.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And I think from the confidence and the marginal level of notoriety that I had received at my job at MTV, I slowly realized, okay, I do have something to say.
Guest:And people seem to be responding to that.
Guest:Were you acting too?
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, other than just the sort of inevitable stint on Degrassi.
Marc:What is that?
Marc:I don't know what that is.
Guest:Degrassi is a Canadian franchise beloved by a lot of Americans, which is kind of like... How would you describe it?
Guest:It's like the quiet...
Guest:slightly less polished step cousin of 90210 oh so it's just ongoing although i think the it's ongoing and i think the early degrassi degrassi street or whatever the first iteration of this franchise was actually inspired 90210 i think in some capacity because it was on in the 80s and then they just kept doing
Guest:you know, Degrassi, the next generation.
Guest:So if you are an actor working in Canada, inevitably over the past 30 years, you have done either a day or a couple days on Degrassi.
Marc:It's a rite of passage.
Guest:It's a rite of passage.
Guest:It's a Canadian rite of passage.
Guest:I mean, Drake is a prime example of someone who came out of the Degrassi world and really skyrocketed to success.
Guest:I think that's what makes Canadian actors so great in the same way that I think, you know, a lot of British actors across the board are just great actors.
Guest:It's why British TV, you can, you know, the day players are extraordinary because it's a country that prides itself in the skill and the craft of acting.
Guest:You know, if you are staying in Canada as an actor, you are not, you know, driving to Toronto with the hopes of becoming
Guest:Nicole Kidman.
Guest:It is an industry that is very much self-sustaining and you work in it and people have a wonderful experience in the Canadian film and television industry.
Marc:Did you do any training?
Guest:I did when I came out to Los Angeles for the first little while.
Marc:So what was your interest level in sort of as Schitt's Creek sort of before it evolved?
Marc:I mean, were you a comedy fan?
Marc:Did you have heroes or sort of people you looked up to?
Marc:No, not really.
Guest:I was I mean, the funny thing is, I don't really consider myself.
Guest:being in comedy, really.
Guest:I think we wrote a comedy and I appreciate comedy, but I've never been a comedy guy.
Guest:I think a lot of like writers in LA have come from standup backgrounds and are really sort of embedded in the comedy scene.
Guest:I think for me, I mean, my dad and I always considered Schitt's Creek to be a drama.
Guest:that just happened to have very funny circumstances.
Marc:So wait, all right, so now let's get around to, so you do eight years on MTV, and what, is there an existential crisis, or you realize that's behind you?
Guest:There was, actually.
Guest:I have the exact moment, too.
Guest:I was on the MTV Movie Awards red carpet, hosting the carpet for MTV.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And had a full-blown panic attack because when you host these red carpets, they give you just a binder of names of actors and what they're doing and the jobs that they're working on.
Guest:And you have to memorize it all so that if, you know, Sienna Miller comes walking down the carpet, you have to know what she's working on, why she's here, what she's promoting, what she's nominated for.
Guest:And I was so overwhelmed by the sheer volume of information combined with an intimidation factor of just
Guest:meeting all these actors and people that I had respected, that at the end of that experience, the cameras turned off and I burst into tears.
Guest:And I had no idea why.
Guest:I've become a more emotional person as I've gone on, but back then I was certainly not a crier.
Guest:And I just had such a cathartic release.
Guest:And in that moment, I realized that I was
Guest:tired of asking people questions about work that I really admired.
Guest:I wanted to start doing work that someone one day might want to ask me a question about.
Guest:That was really the shift in my brain.
Marc:That was your telephone moment.
Marc:That was my, from the agency, you know, like, is that moment where you're like, I'm done here.
Guest:That was the turning point.
Guest:And I just realized, like, I didn't have the, I did, it didn't bring me joy.
Guest:Asking people about their lives didn't bring me joy.
Guest:I wanted to go out there and start making something for myself that, that, you know.
Marc:might might intrigue other people yeah i don't know that people regular people uh working people like this is this is our industry this is our job but you know to to sort of service uh the machine in that way where you're you just sort of have to pretend to be interested you're limited in what you can ask uh they're rehearsed in what they're responding with yeah yeah spontaneity is happens but it's it's it's fleeting
Guest:It's a fascinating side of the industry to have worked in.
Guest:And then now to be on the other side, I have such a respect for the process.
Guest:And I know that so many actors see junkets and see interviews as kind of, you know, as work.
Guest:But I think what a lot of them aren't understanding is that it's also work for the people who are asking those questions.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And they, you know, you look at them and you're like, I know what's going on.
Marc:We know what's happening here.
Marc:Let's try it.
Guest:Nobody wants to ask a celebrity about their personal life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That is what a producer is forcing you to ask because the show gets a headline out of it.
Guest:But the person asking those questions is not waking up in the morning saying, gosh, I want to put this person on the spot and make them feel uncomfortable by asking them.
Guest:I mean, it is...
Guest:It's just part of the job.
Guest:And, you know, I... Is that what they ask you to do?
Marc:Because there are some... Oh, yeah.
Guest:I think in entertainment reporting, there's a lot of questions that are... You know, I was even asked at times to just slip questions in that might not have been approved by the public.
Guest:You're constantly trying to get those moments...
Guest:particularly now, that can live on the Internet, where an actor is sort of caught off guard and then you suddenly get that moment of tension.
Guest:That becomes something that the news outlet can then put out into the world and get views by.
Marc:I mean, I know they do that.
Marc:I know that happens.
Marc:I know they kind of poach my interviews to find moments like that.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But like, I don't know that, like, I think I was naive because I but now I realize like I was a victim of that.
Marc:And, you know, and I don't assume that people are doing that.
Marc:And I certainly don't assume that, you know, when I meet an individual that that's their agenda.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:Maybe I'm too trusting.
Marc:But I did that guy Andy Cohen show.
Marc:Is that that guy?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And that's what all that show is about is is generating awkward moments for Bravo and for clickbait, you know.
Guest:I mean, you have to go into that show knowing that it is intentionally...
Marc:uh provocative yeah i didn't i didn't really know that and i found it very assaultive you know i thought okay you know i was just sort of like it's like it's all happening so quickly yeah it's a very quick show i was just i was i was disappointed in the whole thing you know because it's just because i can say no to things it's like that's not my fucking world you know what do i need you know i don't know anything about the housewives of anything so like you know now i gotta like get up to speed or just be the idiot that's sort of like i don't know
Marc:Like, fuck it.
Guest:Well, I feel like someone who you were working with should have given you a heads up.
Marc:Well, they felt bad after, you know, they thought that it would be like, you know, a lot of people watch this.
Marc:You know, it might be might be weird, but you can do it.
Marc:And then they're like they're asking me weird kind of half personal questions about people I know.
Marc:And I'm like, what the right.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:And you and you're in a live situation.
Marc:So there's no protection.
Marc:So I think that was the thing that bothered me.
Marc:It's like I'm pretty good at improvising, but I'm not going to sit there and throw other people under the bus when you're put on the spot.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But anyways, that's enough about me.
Marc:So you have the existential moment and that's when you approach your father and go, OK, I'm ready to to for your help a little bit.
Guest:I mean, I, you know, I walked away from it and I had a kind of philosophical, you know,
Guest:awakening, where I realized that so much of what I was clinging to with the job at MTV was ego based, like I was really enjoying the perks of getting into, you know, bars and restaurants and
Guest:And having a kind of notoriety that got me stuff.
Marc:And it's a nice thing to have.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Today, I just got these boots sent to me.
Marc:And I was so excited about it.
Marc:And I've bought boots from this place before.
Marc:I love the company.
Marc:And I Instagrammed them.
Marc:And then all of a sudden, some assholes are like, shill much?
Marc:I'm like, go fuck yourself.
Marc:This is barter, baby.
Marc:What do you think we're doing here?
Guest:Listen, if it's going to land on your doorstep, what are you going to do about it?
Guest:I like presents.
Guest:I like presents.
Guest:Put the boots on.
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:But I realize that that is not a way to necessarily live your life.
Guest:It's one thing if it's happening while you're working.
Guest:But if this work has stopped bringing you joy, I had to get to a point where –
Guest:Boots aren't enough.
Guest:And I really said to myself, I have to be okay to get a restaurant job or to work in a bookstore or to start a company that's small and new and not be afraid of what people are going to ask.
Guest:The inevitable what happens next, which people love to ask, what are you working on next?
Marc:And also the fear of failure, dude.
Guest:Failure.
Guest:Especially when you've been, you know, in my case, it was it was within Canada.
Guest:But still, you know, you're known for a certain thing.
Guest:There are expectations.
Guest:And I think when you walk away from something on camera, the you know, the presumption is that you are destined for something greater.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It was realizing that the something greater for me didn't have to be.
Guest:more television it could be something completely different did you really think that though yes yeah i think you had to you had to give oh i had to give over that ego bullshit in order to be okay with the fact right that i might not ever work again you have to you have to let it go you have to let the expectations
Guest:because there's nothing more desperate than someone who's really just trying their best and it leads you down strange paths you end up taking weird jobs that you don't want because it just so happens to be on television tv is not the be all and end all and fame is certainly not something to live your life by so you know i started a glasses company in that time no where i started yeah oh yeah we're coming back baby too coming back in a few months um yeah started started made designing eyewear are you wearing them now um
Guest:I'm not wearing them now.
Guest:I should be.
Marc:Who's making those?
Marc:No, we're not going to be.
Marc:No one's going to see this.
Marc:Who makes the ones you have on?
Guest:Listen, you'll get a case of them on your doorstep in the coming weeks.
Marc:Thank you.
Guest:But, you know, it was about trying new things.
Guest:I quest for, I have a thirst for new experiences and new, and to me,
Guest:starting a company from the ground up, sourcing the production company, sourcing the people who are going to facilitate the eyewear.
Guest:How are we going to sell it?
Guest:What are we going to do?
Guest:That to me is like valuable skills in one way or another.
Marc:Like I couldn't imagine doing that.
Guest:It brought me so much joy, which is why, you know, once the show happened, I had to put it on the back burner, but now we're coming, now we're coming back with some new frames.
Marc:So it's known that, yeah, that, that, that, uh, Schitt's Creek was sort of a placeholder until you got your eyeglass company back.
Yeah.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:In the big grand scheme of my life, Schitt's Creek was nothing more than just some time taken up before the glasses came back.
Guest:So.
Marc:So, OK, how long do you do the glasses and what how does that how do you like what do you hit a wall with that and go like, wait, maybe I can write television.
Marc:What happened to that dream?
Marc:Well, I was writing simultaneously.
Marc:OK.
Guest:And, you know, I think.
Guest:Like, you know, a lot of my actor friends, they have other jobs on the side to take their mind off of the pressure of constantly having to book jobs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That really was ultimately what this started out as.
Guest:I was really giving a lot of my time and effort into building a business so that I didn't have to confront the terror of the reality that I was not...
Guest:booking jobs in the audition rooms.
Guest:I am a terrible auditioner.
Guest:Terrible.
Guest:Yeah, I can't do it.
Guest:Rattling with fear.
Guest:At one point, a casting director told me to take a step outside, take a couple deep breaths and come back in.
Guest:That's how bad it got.
Guest:So at the same time- That's so funny.
Marc:So they said you had to do that.
Marc:I just pictured you going out and you're like, okay, and you go, you take a couple deep breaths and you walk back in and they go, thank you.
Marc:Thank you very much.
Guest:We've seen enough, which let's be honest, they probably had.
Guest:It was not good.
Guest:So, you know, I needed something to distract from that.
Guest:And at the same time, I also knew that I needed to start writing something for myself to showcase what I could or potentially couldn't do as an actor.
Guest:But I wasn't getting it in an audition, so I had to get it somewhere else.
Guest:So it became this kind of simultaneously building the show and my eyewear company.
Guest:And then when the show
Guest:got picked up and it became this kind of all-consuming experience, I had to say, well, I'm not going to let the glasses quality drop.
Guest:So let's just put that on hold.
Guest:There's nothing binding us to a timeline.
Marc:What was the company called?
Guest:DL Eyewear.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:They're just glasses that I wear every day.
Guest:And I think, you know, for me coming off of MTV, a lot of people were asking me where I got my glasses because I wear these kind of slightly more statement,
Guest:plastic frames.
Guest:And I felt a little uncomfortable telling a, you know, a 13 year old in Saskatchewan to go out and spend 400 bucks on a pair of Tom Ford glasses.
Guest:So there had to be a middle ground, you know, for me it was, let's try and find that.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So how does like, how do you, you and your father, Eugene, uh, start, you know, the, the process of creating the show?
Guest:I had, in a way, I think, I attribute this now, I didn't at the time, but I attribute it in a way to working on the hills.
Guest:I think for so many years, I had been immersed in a culture of wealth and access and access.
Guest:that had penetrated my brain in a way that I felt like I needed to explore from a slightly more analytical standpoint.
Guest:So the show became an exploration of what would it look like now that culturally we have the housewives and the Kardashians
Guest:It was the hills at the time.
Guest:What would it look like if these families, these people that we have become so intimately acquainted with, the kind of wealth that we had never really known before outside of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, what would happen if one of these families were to lose their money?
Guest:What would that look like?
Guest:What would the satirical approach to that be?
Guest:And I didn't want it done in a kind of sitcom format.
Guest:I didn't want to go too slapstick or broad with it.
Guest:I wanted it to feel grounded and real and nurtured in a way that was sensitive and funny, but in a way that really had guts to it.
Guest:So I went to my dad knowing that his genre of comedy is so caring and so realized.
Guest:um that I felt like he could be a really valuable asset to to this concept and so we started talking and for the first time I had come to him with an idea and I think he was just so taken aback by it that he said yes without thinking yeah and so over the course of you know three weekends I would go over to uh to my parents place and my dad and I would sit in the living room and
Guest:hash out these characters and figure out what the story really was and what would give it life and what would give it a heartbeat.
Guest:And sooner than we knew it, it was a show.
Guest:And it was a show that just steadily, season after season, continued to grow, which I think is such a rare...
Marc:experience well the interesting thing about the show is like you know they you had this you know a very kind of dedicated uh viewership right from the get-go like there was some like almost cultish kind of like you know have you watched Schitt's Creek and I'm like no I haven't like oh you gotta watch like there was those people out there right you know like really championing the show as true fans of it and it did its entire run on on CBC yeah CBC in Canada and then pop
Guest:TV in America.
Guest:And then after the first two seasons on pop, it was also introduced to the Netflix world internationally, I believe, or at least in a handful of international countries.
Guest:And so I think the combination of having the show premiere on pop and then six months later premiere on Netflix allowed for us to constantly be around the water cooler, I guess.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Because you had your audience who had found it way back when watching it in real time.
Guest:And then you have the people who are loyal Netflix viewers catching on and and really championing it six months later.
Guest:And we couldn't have asked for a better rollout, particularly because we didn't have huge marketing budgets and we had there's no money in this show.
Guest:Like it's not a it's not a hugely profitable venture.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we in a way.
Guest:The success of this show is so closely tied to the enthusiasm of the fan base and the fact that people told their friends and made it a thing.
Guest:Because without it, we don't have that kind of...
Guest:budget.
Guest:We don't you know, we're not Maisel.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But but it's amazing that the sort of structure of it, that you have this incredibly wealthy family in this incredibly compromised position at this hotel in a small town with weirdos around.
Marc:You know, you would think like, yeah, it's it's it's almost a classic television structure, you know, like fish out of water weirdness.
Marc:But it's such a simple pitch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It is.
Guest:I mean, it is.
Guest:And then I think it was the choice to never make it too trendy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's a timelessness that we really wanted with the show.
Guest:We never wanted... That's why you'll never see a ton of cell phones.
Guest:People are not on their phones a lot.
Guest:Obviously, if there's a joke built in, sure.
Guest:But we really tried... I think, you know, my dad...
Guest:was a huge fan of The Honeymooners.
Guest:And when we were originally talking about the show, a lot of the references were not contemporary references.
Guest:A lot of the references were Beverly Hillbillies and The Honeymooners and Mayberry and all of these kind of timeless worlds that were so insular and specific.
Guest:And yet the sentiment of those worlds was so loving and open and caring that...
Guest:There's a timelessness to watching it.
Guest:Obviously, it's, you know... Oh, so that's interesting that you had... It hates itself a bit, but there was definitely a deliberate choice to try and err on the side of classic television versus...
Marc:Right.
Marc:Breaking Bad.
Marc:Breaking Bad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:And it also gives you the opportunity to kind of have that to create an ensemble that is really working together almost every episode.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you develop that vibe.
Marc:And there's a there's a sense of theater to it because you're you know, you're you're the sort of expanse of it is very limited.
Marc:And there's a way to do that where it seems sort of seamless.
Marc:It's not like a joke delivery system, but the characters are so defined that you can just watch them forever, really.
Guest:I think that's part of it is being on networks that have really allowed for us to have that kind of freedom in the storytelling.
Guest:And I'm sure you experienced that on your show as well.
Marc:My show was like a weird experiment, but I did have freedom.
Marc:That is true.
Guest:And that's what led to it being so special.
Guest:I think that's why audiences are getting slightly more sophisticated because they've been allowed
Guest:shows to get to get freedom i think it's the network mentality of sort of stifling shows into what a network believes a mass audience wants that really sort of held it held back shows or compromised the integrity of certain shows so i think to be aligned with a network that let us do our weird you know show for six years it just goes to show that people will find it and
Marc:and champion it and and i don't think our show based on ratings would have lasted even three episodes on a on a network and and and you why'd you stop it because i stopped my show marin after four seasons very deliberately because i was like what else are we going to do with this let's make the last season weird as fuck and and and and that's it i'm done it wasn't like i was making a fortune what was your reason
Guest:I think it's, I mean, I think it's exactly the same reasons.
Guest:This was not, you know, it's hard to say at the end of the day, we, I really respected the show.
Guest:I respect the show and I respect the viewers.
Guest:And I think when you have viewers that are tuning into your show for season after season, that's a lot of,
Guest:time that people are taking out of their lives to support something that you're making.
Marc:Were you turning it out quicker than, because of the way you were shooting it, they didn't have to wait a year, right?
Marc:No, it was a year.
Marc:Oh, it was.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Every, like, January, I think it aired.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But then every six months it would air on Netflix.
Guest:So it gave the impression that it was just that we were pumping out episodes, but it was just the same season, just re-airing on another platform.
Guest:But I didn't ever want to get to a point where our audience was turned off of the show because the quality went down.
Guest:I think that's when you lose your audience forever.
Guest:All of the shows that I returned to, all of the shows that I speak so lovingly about were shows that have a legacy and that legacy was created by having really thoughtful and carefully considered seasons from front to back.
Guest:Those are the shows that I returned to all the shows that overstayed their welcome.
Guest:I never go back to, because why, why would you ever want to do that when you were soured on the experience?
Guest:So knowing that we had this loyal fan base, it felt like,
Guest:it just didn't feel right to, to squeeze more out of the show than I knew was there.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:That's like, yeah.
Marc:I mean, you seem to be able to make these kinds of decisions for yourself.
Guest:I just think, I mean, it's not about the, I mean, in a way it's, it's afforded me a nice life, but it's not, that's not what's keeping us going.
Guest:I mean, for my dad and I,
Guest:The most important thing in our first season was making sure that the show was as direct a reflection of the show that we wanted to make as possible.
Guest:Because closure comes when you know that you've done exactly what you wanted to do.
Guest:And it's the audience that's deciding, no, I don't like it, or maybe I do.
Guest:But you as the creator know that you've done everything you can.
Guest:It's only once once the once I think the art gets tampered with that you end up, you know, struggling with if only things had been done differently.
Marc:No, no, absolutely.
Marc:You know, having the control and having, you know, the sense of clarity around, you know, knowing that it's you don't want it to be tapped out.
Marc:um yeah or ridiculous i mean that was really for me but it for me it also became about the money just like it wasn't about me making money but we couldn't really grow the show in a creative direction because they weren't giving us any more real really much more production money and then it becomes sort of like well if we really can't do these things to expand the creativity of the show even just to get a song
Marc:Why do it?
Marc:You know, like.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And also, like, I don't I didn't set out to make a refillable format, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, yeah.
Marc:And I think that almost any TV show, I think, you know, four to six seasons is plenty.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, I also think that I don't know when... Unless it's Degrassi.
Marc:Degrassi needs to keep going.
Guest:Degrassi needs 55 seasons.
Guest:But I don't know when it became the norm to have a 10-season run.
Marc:Profit.
Marc:If we're still making money, why stop this thing?
Marc:I guess.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:But I think a lot of people get glamored by...
Marc:the potential of you know what 10 seasons of a show could bring I think that shit and oftentimes I think it's over dude I think that's over I do too I mean I think like now that the the marketplace is so fragmented you know that I think the the it's like who's holding their audience even if it's small and you know exactly I mean I had a really lovely conversation with Phoebe Waller-Bridge a few months back and
Guest:you know, she was, we were talking about TV and making TV and how hard it is when you, you know, are the person who's really behind it and trying to get it all, put all the pieces in place.
Guest:And, you know, she was just talking about length, you know, her, her Fleabag, I think was six and then eight episodes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Um,
Guest:And that's always been something that, you know, not to speak on her behalf, but she just had said that, you know, that's a that's a length that she was comfortable with.
Guest:Right.
Guest:A two season run, maybe 11 episodes total or 12.
Guest:And that is how she tells her stories.
Guest:And what a magnificent story she was able to tell without that kind of.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And as an artist, you're like, that's it.
Marc:That's done.
Marc:I did that.
Marc:Now we did.
Marc:And now what's what are we doing now?
Guest:Yeah, and it was really formative for me to have that conversation, too, because I think, you know, you go into these pitch meetings and people want to know that your show has the potential to, like, be a huge cash cow that can go, you know, nine seasons deep.
Guest:But to have that conversation and to be assured just from a peer that I really respected...
Guest:To just say, like, you know, do whatever you want to make.
Guest:TV does not have to be 700 episodes.
Guest:It can be as little or as much as you want it to be.
Guest:And that was it was a much needed kind of reassurance.
Marc:Well, that's nice.
Marc:So how did it change your relationship with your dad over all these years?
Marc:Well, we started working together.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So that changes things almost instantly because you go from kind of a parent dynamic to a business partnership, which you can never really see coming.
Guest:And I think like anything, you try your best to navigate the waters of respectful business partnerships while also trying to sort of put the
Guest:the personal intimate reaction that you would normally have from a father and son dynamic, keep that out of the room for the most part, as best you can, and try and really bring your most professional selves.
Guest:And I feel like we really tried to do that.
Guest:And obviously, it takes a minute to find that footing.
Guest:But I think for the reason why it worked so well for us is that at the end of the day, no matter what
Guest:conflict we had, the show always was at the root of it.
Guest:It was always about the quality of the show and what's the best decision for the show.
Guest:So when it came to conflict resolution, inevitably the best idea, the one that serviced the show would
Guest:be the one that was chosen.
Guest:So it really never got bad bad because we were both fighting the same fight.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And ultimately it seems like you are actually the more business minded person.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm a bit more cutthroat when it comes to sort of just
Guest:Getting to the root of why are we doing this?
Guest:And is it worth our time?
Guest:You know, and my dad is is is much kinder.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:To sort of reduce it to an emotion.
Marc:When you discussed stopping the show, everybody was good with that.
Marc:He was good with that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I was ready to stop after five.
Guest:And then after our fourth season, we were given the option of doing two seasons.
Guest:And I thought, OK.
Guest:28 episodes feels doable in terms of I get to hang out with my friends for two more years because the biggest hold up for me in terms of walking away was not getting to work with these people again.
Guest:We had the most extraordinary experience working on this show.
Guest:It is such a family dynamic at this point between all the actors and our crew.
Guest:For three months of the year, we just had the best experience.
Guest:time and that was really hard to walk away from especially when you know that chemistry like that doesn't necessarily happen every day right and that the next job might not be quite as loving or supportive um but i do hope that in a way we'll we'll find our way back to each other yeah even if i have to just write another show and he's working on the show that my girlfriend is directing oh great yeah kevin can go fuck himself yeah
Guest:That's going to be so great.
Guest:I can't wait to see it.
Marc:When everyone gets back to work.
Guest:Absolutely brilliant.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:And so is your dad going to be your partner in the glasses business as well?
Guest:No, although he does wear them exclusively.
Guest:He is my proudest, biggest supporter.
Guest:All of his glasses, every single pair of sunglasses are mine.
Guest:In Toronto, he goes to all the baseball games and would give my glasses to the baseball players.
Guest:So that was very fun.
Guest:You know, he's just the spokesperson.
Guest:So I guess in a way he is working for the company.
Marc:So now are you really going to exclusively focus on your glasses company now?
Marc:Are you going to?
Guest:No, I have a couple.
Guest:I have a couple of shows that I'm developing right now, and it looks like a feature.
Guest:which is kind of exciting.
Guest:And at this point, everything is a big question mark, as is this industry as a whole.
Guest:You can never really proclaim anything until you're actually shooting it.
Guest:And even then, who knows?
Guest:But I have managed to put a team together.
Guest:And the glasses are something that I've always really been passionate about.
Guest:I love design.
Guest:I love the business side of things.
Guest:And I've managed to get a couple people together who are helping me through the process.
Guest:And it's been really great.
Guest:So we'll release them when it's time.
Guest:And the great thing about what we're doing is that it's not tied to any timeline.
Guest:We're going to put out a collection.
Guest:And if people like it, great.
Guest:We'll put out another one.
Guest:But there's no real expectation associated with it other than just, you know.
Marc:Given the pandemic, I mean, that might be the primary business.
Marc:We don't know yet.
Marc:It seems like, you know, people are still buying things to where that they can see through.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Because they can do that from their house.
Guest:We have not canceled Eyewear yet.
Guest:So...
Guest:Who knows?
Guest:But it's been it's been something that's been keeping me going through these through these days.
Marc:Good.
Marc:Good.
Marc:Well, it was great talking to you, man.
Guest:Likewise.
Guest:What a thrill to get to do this with you.
Marc:Yeah, it was great.
Marc:And I really appreciate you doing it.
Marc:I'm getting used to doing it like this.
Marc:I think we're all getting used to talking like this.
Marc:I'm finding that it definitely makes a difference to see you.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Even though we don't use it, it's still it's very it's good for me.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:I mean, I did a podcast a couple, about six months ago where it was just radio.
Yeah.
Guest:And it was it was a weird experience.
Marc:Well, yeah, I've done I've done interviews like that, but you can't you never know what someone's up to.
Marc:At least, you know, when you're looking at somebody, you can somewhat hold them conversationally accountable.
Marc:I mean, if you're just like if a laptop and a telephone were just happening as the conversation was going.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Someone was just filling up their Instacart.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:You can do that.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Such a fan, Mark.
Marc:Thank you.
Guest:And thank you for all the great work you're doing.
Marc:You too, man.
Marc:That was Dan Levy.
Marc:What a fine young man.
Marc:The final season of Schitt's Creek just ended.
Marc:You can watch season one through five on Netflix.
Marc:I'm going to do an old riff on my guitar from the soundtrack of Sword of Trust.
Marc:But I added some stuff to it.
Marc:I mean, it's a little different.
Marc:Like you would know.
Marc:I'm sorry, that soundtrack's not available.
Marc:Because almost all of the pieces are about a minute and a half long.
Marc:To two months.
Marc:I wasn't planning on the soundtrack.
Marc:The song, though, I should release that somehow.
Marc:I guess I'm just thinking out loud.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Here we go.
.
.
Thank you.
Guest:Boomer lives!