Episode 1101 - Carol Kane

Episode 1101 • Released February 27, 2020 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it i'm all jacked up i'm back on the uh just coffee doc co-op coffee that they send me every month

00:00:26Marc:I'm still drinking tea in the morning, but it sort of crept in, man.

00:00:29Marc:Me and Dino on the road just jacking up on that Dunkin' coffee because I feel like I have to when I'm back east.

00:00:37Marc:God damn it, I got lit up.

00:00:39Marc:I'm finally coming down from our trip, man.

00:00:42Marc:And Sunday night we did the last of the tour that turned out to be beautiful weather wise.

00:00:48Marc:But the last night at the Paramount was just what a great way to go out.

00:00:51Marc:What a great crowd there in Huntington, New York.

00:00:54Marc:And ran into my buddy Dave Mannheim from the Dopey podcast.

00:00:59Marc:He accosted me on the street.

00:01:01Marc:Not unlike he does.

00:01:03Marc:And he's like, come on.

00:01:04Marc:What are you guys doing?

00:01:05Marc:You want to eat?

00:01:05Marc:And we're like, yeah, sure.

00:01:07Marc:And we go to the restaurant across from the joint there.

00:01:10Marc:And we had dinner with Mannheim and his wife.

00:01:13Marc:And I don't know if you listen to Dopey, but he basically interviews recovering drug addicts.

00:01:20Marc:Good stories.

00:01:21Marc:Dino's got his thing going on.

00:01:25Marc:Let there be talk.

00:01:26Marc:And we were doing some of those live IG things.

00:01:30Marc:People seem to like them.

00:01:32Marc:Me and Dean have a good time.

00:01:33Marc:I just want to thank all the audiences again for coming out.

00:01:36Marc:And that last show at the Paramount in Huntington was just really fucking amazing.

00:01:41Marc:Special night.

00:01:42Marc:Great show.

00:01:44Marc:Great way to put to rest that material that I've been working on for a couple of years.

00:01:50Marc:You can see the trailer for my special End Times Fun.

00:01:56Marc:March 10th it drops.

00:01:58Marc:I posted that on my Twitter.

00:02:00Marc:That's at Mark Maron.

00:02:02Marc:And also on my Instagram at Mark Maron.

00:02:06Marc:The trailer came out good.

00:02:08Marc:Looks good.

00:02:09Marc:Looks different than other specials.

00:02:12Marc:Good material choices.

00:02:13Marc:Nice edit job.

00:02:15Marc:Wearing my vest that I think I probably am only going to wear once on that special.

00:02:22Marc:What the fuck is wrong with me, man?

00:02:24Marc:I think it looks good.

00:02:25Marc:I love the thing.

00:02:26Marc:But like, why do I do that, man?

00:02:28Marc:My entire, I finally got away from wearing new shit on TV.

00:02:33Marc:And then I do this new special.

00:02:34Marc:I'm like, I'm going to wear this vest and my no collar shirt.

00:02:39Marc:But I'm very excited about this special coming out.

00:02:42Marc:I think it's a very fitting special.

00:02:47Marc:For the times we live in, for me, shot beautifully by Lynn Shelton in an intimate space, a black box theater.

00:02:55Marc:The Red Cat Theater, downtown Los Angeles for a couple of hundred folks.

00:02:59Marc:It's got a very personal, intimate vibe.

00:03:03Marc:Coming in close on the face, which is unlike a lot of specials.

00:03:07Marc:We're in the face.

00:03:09Marc:getting intimate today on the show carol kane joins me who i love and have loved for years carol kane has done some amazing work currently she's um in this uh show about the nazis she's in uh hunters with al pacino all episodes uh are streaming on amazon now

00:03:31Marc:But Carol Kane was also in The Last Detail with Jack Nicholson.

00:03:38Marc:And she was great in that.

00:03:41Marc:She was in Annie Hall.

00:03:42Marc:Spectacular.

00:03:44Marc:Hester Street.

00:03:45Marc:Terrific.

00:03:47Marc:She's been around a lot.

00:03:49Marc:And she shot movies back in the day with some of the greats.

00:03:54Marc:And we just got kind of nostalgic and reflective about stuff, about people.

00:03:59Marc:It was a beautiful conversation you're about to witness.

00:04:03Marc:It was beautiful.

00:04:05Marc:How are you guys doing?

00:04:05Marc:Everybody all right?

00:04:07Marc:You get that thing taken care of?

00:04:08Marc:Everybody good?

00:04:09Marc:Been edgy, though, man.

00:04:12Marc:Monkey is declining.

00:04:15Marc:I don't know if I can take it.

00:04:17Marc:You know, his sister passed a few months ago.

00:04:21Marc:Passed with my help.

00:04:23Marc:And now her brother monkey is getting weak, man.

00:04:26Marc:He's getting weak.

00:04:28Marc:I don't know what's up.

00:04:28Marc:I got to bring him back to the vet.

00:04:30Marc:And I'm angry because I don't want to experience my grief.

00:04:34Marc:I got to put down two cats inside six months, brother and sister.

00:04:38Marc:The ones I've had for 15 years, 16 years.

00:04:42Marc:It's fucking brutal, man.

00:04:43Marc:And I'm just mad.

00:04:44Marc:I'm mad at monkey for getting old.

00:04:47Marc:And, you know, I got it.

00:04:48Marc:I got to let go of it.

00:04:50Marc:Let go of the anger and, you know, open up, man.

00:04:54Marc:Open up this part of life.

00:04:56Marc:It's sad, but I just like it's just hanging over me.

00:04:58Marc:I know it's going to it's only a matter of time.

00:05:00Marc:I'm trying to keep him around.

00:05:02Marc:He's OK.

00:05:02Marc:He's still he's just like spaced out and weird.

00:05:05Marc:He's a little old man.

00:05:07Marc:He's fragile and he's wearing out.

00:05:11Marc:But he's still a loving little guy.

00:05:13Marc:So I'm trying to be cool.

00:05:15Marc:I'm home for the duration now.

00:05:18Marc:We're going to be starting up Glow.

00:05:20Marc:Got to get my hair cut.

00:05:21Marc:Got to turn into Sam, Sylvia.

00:05:25Marc:So I'll be around for Monkey.

00:05:27Marc:I'll be around for Glow.

00:05:29Marc:I'll be around to do some stand-up around town.

00:05:32Marc:Be around to sort of fix up my house and get this studio in shape.

00:05:37Marc:But it's hard, man.

00:05:39Marc:It's hard to accept that, you know, that he's fucking sick.

00:05:45Marc:So listen, a lot of you have been mailing in your tech stories, and I'll try to, like, I'm going through them slowly.

00:05:53Marc:But I got a couple here about the texting the wrong person stories.

00:05:57Marc:I like these.

00:05:58Marc:They're great.

00:05:59Marc:Hey, Mark, with a K. I guess he means me.

00:06:03Marc:The following is a 100% true account of how I accidentally sent my conservative 75-year-old mom a text suggesting, you know what?

00:06:15Marc:I'm not going to spoil it.

00:06:16Marc:So I'm going to leave that there and just go here.

00:06:19Marc:I'll explain.

00:06:20Marc:He says, one night,

00:06:22Marc:A few years back, I'm hanging out with Andrew and a couple other buddies.

00:06:25Marc:Oh, Andrew, right, of course.

00:06:27Marc:Having a few drinks, et cetera, when we wound up in a riveting conversation about masturbation, specifically masturbation material.

00:06:34Marc:At some point, I proclaimed truthfully that I never in my life jerked off to print porn, magazine, still pictures, et cetera, but only to porn videos and probably 35 millimeter films going way back to my early teens in the early 80s.

00:06:48Marc:It's a lot of details, pal.

00:06:49Marc:A lot of details.

00:06:51Marc:Big drunken conversation ensues.

00:06:53Marc:Everyone weighed in detailing and expounding the pros and cons of both, et cetera.

00:06:59Marc:Later that night, after having gone my separate ways from Andrew and the gang, I received a text from my mom who had just returned home from a week of babysitting.

00:07:05Marc:My three-year-old niece attached in her text to me was a cute pic of my cute little niece.

00:07:12Marc:Quote, great visit.

00:07:14Marc:Great to be home.

00:07:14Marc:We're exhausted.

00:07:15Marc:What are you up to?

00:07:17Marc:She asks.

00:07:18Marc:Just as I'm about to reply to my mom, Andrew texts in.

00:07:22Marc:Hey, what are you doing?

00:07:24Marc:To which I reply, as I call back from our earlier conversation, just jerking off to a still photo.

00:07:29Marc:Not bad, actually.

00:07:31Marc:Had no idea what I was missing.

00:07:33Marc:Send.

00:07:38Marc:Yep.

00:07:39Marc:Sent that above text to my mom in reply to her inquiry, read what I'm up to and the attached picture of my three-year-old niece.

00:07:49Marc:Wow.

00:07:52Marc:Wow.

00:07:53Marc:Of course, my first inclination was to smash my phone into the wall to try and cancel it.

00:07:57Marc:But my stunned disbelief turned into mortification very quickly when the delivered message dissolved into the dreaded red.

00:08:04Marc:And that was that permanent damage to my mother's perception of her son simply because I didn't have the

00:08:10Marc:wherewithal to just tap Andrew's incoming text before replying to him and thus texting her instead so after briefly considering moving to Australia and just disappearing I called mom and while I did my very best to explain the misunderstanding that I'm actually not an incestuous pedophile but just an inebriated guy trying to be funny she awkwardly claimed to believe me and we've never spoken of it since but I'd be lying if I said she doesn't look at me differently now

00:08:36Marc:Honestly, I can't even recount this anecdote without physically cringing.

00:08:43Marc:Wow, man.

00:08:43Marc:Thank you, Dan.

00:08:44Marc:He also said, P.S.

00:08:45Marc:If you'd be so kind to disclose to me the shitty guy who stood you up and fucked you over leading to your accident, I'd be grateful.

00:08:51Marc:I can't do it, man.

00:08:52Marc:But thank you for your horrifying fucking little experience there.

00:08:57Marc:That was a good one, man.

00:08:59Marc:That was top notch.

00:09:02Marc:Top notch fucking horror story of the shitty texting episode.

00:09:06Marc:Yes, I enjoyed that.

00:09:10Marc:So look, I come up with a new character that I'm going to work on, maybe on stage, because I'm feeling angry.

00:09:20Marc:And when I get like this, when I get incredibly uncomfortable in my body, I want to lash out, man.

00:09:27Marc:I want to fucking lash out.

00:09:30Marc:why don't you meditate I don't I do have to get out I haven't been able to exercise I worked out this morning but I get maybe I get back on track with that I'll be better I go in for an MRI on Thursday see what the fuck is going on with my neck gotta bring monkey in whatever man but I just I'm like irritable and I want to yell so I'm working on this guy I used to yell guy

00:09:56Marc:Yeah, it's a character I'm working on.

00:09:59Marc:I used to yell guy.

00:10:00Marc:He doesn't yell anymore, but he sort of yells about not yelling.

00:10:04Marc:Like sort of like, man, if this was the old me, I'd be fucking yelling at you right now.

00:10:09Marc:If this was the old me, I'd be fucking telling you what a piece of shit you were.

00:10:14Marc:But I'm over that.

00:10:15Marc:All right.

00:10:15Marc:I'm not going to fucking tell you what a piece of shit you are.

00:10:19Marc:Even if you are one, I'm not that guy anymore because I don't fucking yell anymore.

00:10:24Marc:That's that new guy.

00:10:25Marc:That's I used to yell guy.

00:10:28Marc:I'm not fucking yelling at you.

00:10:29Marc:I'm telling you that I used to be a shitty fucking guy who would have told you your fucking car stinks and you're a talentless fuck.

00:10:38Marc:But that's not me anymore, man.

00:10:40Marc:I would never fucking say that.

00:10:42Marc:I used to yell, but I don't fucking do that shit anymore.

00:10:47Marc:I would say go fuck yourself.

00:10:49Marc:But I'm not that guy anymore.

00:10:52Marc:That's used to yell guy.

00:10:53Marc:Thank you very much.

00:10:54Marc:Hope you enjoyed that.

00:10:56Marc:I'll be working on that guy.

00:10:59Marc:Hey, man, if this were the old days, I'd tell you to get the fuck out of my house.

00:11:04Marc:But I'm not that guy anymore.

00:11:06Marc:So you go ahead and hang out.

00:11:08Marc:Just fucking hang out, man.

00:11:10Marc:Seriously, fucking hang out.

00:11:12Marc:I don't want you to leave.

00:11:13Marc:That's the old me.

00:11:15Marc:You fuck.

00:11:16Marc:Oh, see, I slipped.

00:11:17Marc:I slipped.

00:11:19Marc:That's used to yell guy relapsing.

00:11:22Marc:New character.

00:11:23Marc:Enjoy it.

00:11:24Marc:Carol Kane is a sweetheart and a great actress and a legend.

00:11:31Marc:I don't like to use that word.

00:11:32Marc:I don't like when people use it about me.

00:11:34Marc:And I just did it about her.

00:11:35Marc:But I was so thrilled to have her on.

00:11:37Marc:I really am.

00:11:39Marc:She's on the new Amazon series Hunters with Al Pacino.

00:11:42Marc:All episodes of season one are now streaming.

00:11:44Marc:Enjoy this conversation with me and Carol Kane.

00:11:56Guest:How are you doing, Mark?

00:11:59Marc:I'm okay.

00:12:00Marc:I'm pretty good.

00:12:01Marc:I tend to operate at a high level of dread and anxiety.

00:12:07Guest:Oh, God.

00:12:08Marc:What?

00:12:08Marc:You too.

00:12:09Marc:You too?

00:12:09Guest:Are you kidding?

00:12:10Guest:It's going to be the death of me.

00:12:12Marc:Really?

00:12:13Guest:Oh, fuck me.

00:12:14Marc:Yeah?

00:12:15Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:12:16Marc:I can't stand it.

00:12:17Marc:I mean, just like upon waking?

00:12:20Yeah.

00:12:21Guest:Frequently upon waking, I would just instantly be anxious.

00:12:28Marc:Yeah.

00:12:28Guest:Why is that?

00:12:29Marc:I don't know, man.

00:12:30Marc:Has it always been that way?

00:12:32Guest:Yes.

00:12:33Guest:I was an anxious little baby, and I just stayed that way.

00:12:39Marc:Yeah, I mean, I don't like saying, like, I try to get away from saying it's a Jew thing about anything, but, like, it's a Jew thing.

00:12:47Yeah.

00:12:47Guest:Is that right?

00:12:48Marc:I don't know.

00:12:49Marc:Isn't it?

00:12:50Guest:I don't think it's only.

00:12:51Guest:I have a best friend who is not Jewish at all, and she kind of is the same way.

00:12:57Marc:Oh, yeah?

00:12:57Marc:But it's something you've always lived with.

00:13:00Guest:Absolutely.

00:13:01Marc:So when you were a little girl, where did that happen?

00:13:06Guest:Well, I was in Cleveland.

00:13:09Guest:I was born in Cleveland.

00:13:10Marc:Was it a great city then?

00:13:12Guest:Well, you know, I left there when I was quite young and traveled a lot with my father and my family.

00:13:23Guest:So I really only remember going to elementary school and walking there in the snow.

00:13:31Marc:Right.

00:13:33Marc:I was just in Cleveland.

00:13:34Guest:Oh, what were you doing there?

00:13:36Marc:I did comedy there, but it's one of those cities where...

00:13:40Marc:It's sort of the vestige, the ghost of some other time in a way.

00:13:44Marc:Is that right?

00:13:44Marc:No, no.

00:13:45Marc:I mean, it's fine.

00:13:46Marc:It's bounced back to a degree, but there are these great American cities that went through really rough times, some of them longer than others, and some of them have come back better than others, but you do feel like, oh, this was once something.

00:13:59Guest:Something beautiful.

00:14:00Guest:Well, and Cleveland, the orchestra.

00:14:03Guest:Yeah.

00:14:04Guest:Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is there.

00:14:06Marc:That's right.

00:14:06Marc:Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is there.

00:14:08Marc:And I think rock and roll on some level.

00:14:11Marc:Was Alan Freed from there?

00:14:13Guest:Yes, I believe you're right.

00:14:15Marc:Like the DJ, the big rock show.

00:14:18Marc:There was something defining about Cleveland in the history of rock and roll.

00:14:22Marc:But you were there only until you were 10?

00:14:24Guest:When I was 8, we moved to France for a year and a half.

00:14:30Guest:And then we came back for...

00:14:33Guest:A small amount of time.

00:14:35Marc:Back to Cleveland?

00:14:36Guest:Yes.

00:14:37Guest:And then we lived in Haiti for a little while.

00:14:41Marc:Wait a minute.

00:14:42Marc:So, like, were your parents together?

00:14:43Guest:Well, here's the trick.

00:14:47Marc:Yeah.

00:14:48Guest:We thought they were together.

00:14:50Marc:Who did?

00:14:50Guest:Me and my sister.

00:14:52Marc:There's just two of you.

00:14:53Marc:Yeah.

00:14:54Guest:But, in fact, that was just a horrible, painful thing.

00:15:02Guest:which could be why I woke up anxious when I was a little girl.

00:15:08Guest:For sure.

00:15:09Guest:And then we came back to Cleveland for a while.

00:15:11Guest:And then when I was 11, I went to boarding school in Connecticut.

00:15:17Guest:And then my sister went to a different one because, in fact, then they had confessed that they were getting a divorce.

00:15:24Guest:Right.

00:15:24Guest:So we went to different boarding schools.

00:15:29Guest:And then I moved to New York.

00:15:32Marc:All right, so what did your folks do?

00:15:35Marc:What were they involved in?

00:15:36Guest:My father was a beautiful architect.

00:15:40Marc:Really?

00:15:41Guest:Yeah, fantastic.

00:15:42Marc:There's still standing things?

00:15:44Guest:Yes.

00:15:44Guest:In Cleveland?

00:15:45Guest:A firehouse, a school, yeah, a part of a temple, yeah.

00:15:50Guest:And my mother, who's still with me.

00:15:55Guest:Really?

00:15:56Guest:Oh, I'm so lucky.

00:15:57Marc:How old is she?

00:15:58Guest:She's 93.

00:15:59Marc:Wow.

00:16:00Guest:She is a composer, a pianist.

00:16:05Guest:lived in Paris for 20 years and was considered a master teacher of something called Delcros.

00:16:13Guest:I don't know if you've ever heard of it.

00:16:14Guest:No, what is that?

00:16:16Marc:Educate me.

00:16:16Guest:Yeah, it's a way of teaching music through movement.

00:16:23Marc:Okay.

00:16:23Guest:And it's kind of a fascinating thing.

00:16:27Guest:so that's why you went to paris uh no we went there as a family because my dad had a full like a reverse fulbright study at the sorbonne and then we we then she moved back there yeah for real you know yeah and and then i would go see her uh a couple times a year and and then she moved back here and she is still composing

00:16:51Guest:In fact, if you have an email, which you won't be saying here, I'd love to send you a song that she wrote.

00:17:00Guest:Now it's a little film.

00:17:02Guest:It's called Nez.

00:17:03Marc:Okay.

00:17:03Guest:And it's on YouTube now.

00:17:05Marc:Okay.

00:17:05Guest:And so she's still at the piano every day.

00:17:08Marc:And where does she live?

00:17:09Guest:She lives in New York.

00:17:11Marc:With you?

00:17:12Guest:We live in the same building, but not the same apartment.

00:17:15Guest:I live on 16.

00:17:17Guest:She lives on 10.

00:17:18Marc:Okay.

00:17:19Marc:Yeah.

00:17:20Marc:That wasn't always the way it was, right?

00:17:21Marc:No.

00:17:22Marc:You lived there first?

00:17:23Marc:No.

00:17:23Guest:No, she lived there first.

00:17:25Guest:And then there came a time when I just started to feel like it was better to be closer.

00:17:32Guest:And eventually I found a place that I liked in her building, and I moved.

00:17:37Guest:And it was perfect timing, really, because some things happened to her health-wise, and I was there.

00:17:44Guest:And I'm so grateful for that.

00:17:47Marc:Is your sister still around?

00:17:48No.

00:17:48Guest:My sister's in Santa Cruz.

00:17:50Guest:What?

00:17:51Guest:Yes, what?

00:17:53Marc:Is she an old hippie?

00:17:54Guest:She is an old hippie, and she's a realtor now, and she does a lot of movement stuff, too.

00:18:02Marc:Oh, really?

00:18:02Guest:Yeah, uh-huh.

00:18:03Marc:Well, that's a pretty creative family, it seems.

00:18:06Marc:Yes.

00:18:07Marc:I mean, like it doesn't seem like so when you so you it was it was always sort of second nature to engage in creativity and be and be that in that world, even grow up in a working class family.

00:18:19Guest:I guess it was, yeah.

00:18:22Guest:When I was little, my mother had these gorgeous ballet books, big, giant picture books of all the dancers in their costumes and makeup.

00:18:37Guest:There was a makeup kit that you could get at F.A.O.

00:18:41Guest:Schwartz.

00:18:42Marc:Oh, F.A.O.

00:18:42Marc:Schwartz.

00:18:42Guest:And it was a kit, which is the best thing in the world.

00:18:45Marc:Sure.

00:18:46Marc:It comes with its own little box.

00:18:47Marc:Yes.

00:18:47Marc:You open it up.

00:18:48Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:18:49Guest:And then I used to sit on the floor in the bathroom in front of the mirror and just spend hours recreating the makeup that was in the ballet book.

00:18:58Marc:Right.

00:18:58Guest:Yeah.

00:18:59Marc:Did you do ballet?

00:19:00Guest:No, I wish.

00:19:01Marc:Yeah.

00:19:02Marc:But so your folks, what, they were always fighting?

00:19:05Marc:Is that what happened?

00:19:06Marc:Like it was just tense?

00:19:07Marc:Yeah.

00:19:07Marc:Because the anxiety thing, because I wonder that about myself.

00:19:09Marc:Because I don't feel like, I know my parents' marriage wasn't great, but there was fighting, but it wasn't like total chaos.

00:19:16Marc:But maybe it was.

00:19:17Marc:I don't know.

00:19:18Guest:Well, did they stay together?

00:19:19Marc:No, no.

00:19:21Guest:No, don't be ridiculous.

00:19:22Marc:Of course not.

00:19:23Marc:Yeah, they were both very... I don't know what my dad was up to.

00:19:27Marc:I do, but... Oh, you do?

00:19:29Marc:Sure.

00:19:30Guest:As you grow older, you have more of a clue?

00:19:32Marc:Well, they tell you.

00:19:33Marc:There seems to be no statute of limitations.

00:19:36Marc:It runs out, the statute of limitations, on the shit they shouldn't tell their kid when they're in their 80s or 70s.

00:19:42Guest:Are they still with you?

00:19:43Marc:Yeah.

00:19:44Guest:Oh, that's wonderful.

00:19:45Marc:Yeah, it is, most days.

00:19:46Guest:Most days.

00:19:48Guest:And so how old were you when they separated?

00:19:50Marc:35.

00:19:51Marc:I didn't know who I would live with.

00:19:53Guest:Yeah, what the hell?

00:19:54Marc:There was a custody battle.

00:19:55Marc:It was a very difficult time for me.

00:19:57Guest:Who gets the baby?

00:19:59Marc:Yeah.

00:20:00Marc:No, there's a long time coming.

00:20:03Guest:Well, what do you do about your anxiety?

00:20:05Marc:Oh, man.

00:20:07Marc:You know, I exercise a lot.

00:20:09Guest:You look good, by the way.

00:20:11Marc:Very handsome.

00:20:12Marc:I appreciate that.

00:20:12Guest:I'd like everyone to know how handsome you are.

00:20:14Marc:Thank you.

00:20:15Marc:I'm holding up okay.

00:20:16Marc:I think I'm getting better.

00:20:18Guest:I think you're getting better.

00:20:19Guest:I really do.

00:20:20Marc:I just try to do some self-talk around it, really, just to try to figure out.

00:20:25Marc:I just get filled with a certain amount of dread, and God knows the cultural climate doesn't help.

00:20:30Guest:Oh, my God.

00:20:31Marc:But there's some part of me that feeds it.

00:20:33Marc:It's involuntary.

00:20:34Marc:It's almost like there's some part of me that believes this is the way I should be.

00:20:38Marc:So that's hard to fight.

00:20:39Guest:Is that for your creativity, do you think?

00:20:42Marc:No, I just think it's my nature.

00:20:43Marc:Like you said, you've had it all your life, so that's your ground zero.

00:20:48Marc:So that's your default.

00:20:50Marc:So anything you do to improve that is going to be working against your nature.

00:20:55Marc:So that's how I see it anyways.

00:20:59Guest:I feel that there is some wisdom creeping in as I get older.

00:21:09Marc:Yeah, sure.

00:21:10Guest:Like a little bit is seeping in there so that I'm able, not everything in the world was the most important thing in the world to me.

00:21:23Guest:And in terms of my artistry, it had to be perfect.

00:21:27Marc:Right.

00:21:28Guest:Or it was just crap, you know.

00:21:30Marc:Right.

00:21:30Marc:So you're hard on yourself.

00:21:32Guest:Hard on myself, and when I was very young, I think I was hard on others, which is no longer the case because I really did start to learn that it is the process, and that's all there is.

00:21:49Guest:Right.

00:21:50Guest:You know, you don't know what's going to happen with it.

00:21:53Guest:You do your best and you don't take anything out on anybody else.

00:21:59Guest:And you better enjoy the process and that's it.

00:22:02Marc:Yeah, I agree with that.

00:22:04Marc:I get hard on myself as well.

00:22:07Marc:But there's times where in terms of wisdom, a lot of things just don't matter as much as you.

00:22:12Guest:Well, that's, I think, what I meant to say.

00:22:13Guest:I made it very fancy and elaborate, but isn't that kind of a relief?

00:22:20Marc:Totally.

00:22:21Marc:I've been doing a joke lately, but I don't know if I have early onset Alzheimer's or I'm just getting older and accepting things more, but either way, I'm happy about that.

00:22:31Guest:Yes.

00:22:32Guest:I have to tell you, I just read...

00:22:34Guest:Maybe the best book I ever read.

00:22:38Guest:I'm going to read it again.

00:22:39Guest:It's Diane Keaton's new book, Brother and Sister.

00:22:43Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:22:45Marc:They sent me the galley copy.

00:22:47Guest:You must read it.

00:22:48Marc:That's the last time I saw you, right?

00:22:50Marc:You were with her at a Netflix party, maybe?

00:22:52Marc:Could be.

00:22:52Marc:Was that true?

00:22:54Marc:Yeah.

00:22:54Marc:Yeah, I'd love to talk to her.

00:22:56Guest:This is the most beautiful book perhaps I've ever read, and it has a great deal to do with what we were talking about, how things don't matter in the same way.

00:23:09Guest:Right.

00:23:09Guest:They matter, but you're able to see things differently.

00:23:14Marc:So that's out there.

00:23:15Guest:This is out, and it's a bestseller.

00:23:18Marc:Yeah.

00:23:19Guest:And as I say, I mean, I really think it's the most beautiful book I've ever read.

00:23:24Marc:I have it.

00:23:24Marc:I wanted to read it.

00:23:25Marc:I wanted her to come on, but I guess she doesn't do that.

00:23:29Guest:I don't know.

00:23:30Guest:I cannot speak for her.

00:23:33Marc:Are you guys friends?

00:23:34Guest:Oh, yes.

00:23:35Marc:So how long have you been friends with her?

00:23:37Guest:Okay, at least 40 years.

00:23:41Guest:Yeah.

00:23:42Guest:I think more.

00:23:43Yeah.

00:23:43Marc:But let's get before that.

00:23:45Marc:So now you leave Cleveland, your parents divorce.

00:23:49Guest:42 years, I think.

00:23:50Guest:I'm sorry.

00:23:51Marc:Did you meet her on Annie Hall?

00:23:53Guest:No, we actually did a movie together before Annie Hall.

00:23:58Guest:called Harry and Walter Go to New York, and it had this unbelievable cast.

00:24:03Guest:James Caan and Elliot Gould and Charlie Durning and Diane.

00:24:08Marc:I'm Harry, I'm Walter.

00:24:10Marc:It's such a thrill to be here.

00:24:11Guest:You're the only person in the world who remembers that.

00:24:15Guest:That's incredible.

00:24:16Marc:I remember just because, see, I remember it as that they were show business, but I don't think that they were.

00:24:21Marc:It was a crime thing, a robbery thing, or I don't know.

00:24:25Guest:No, I don't remember really.

00:24:26Marc:I just remember them doing a bit.

00:24:27Guest:But that's what they did.

00:24:29Guest:Yeah.

00:24:29Guest:And you're the only one that knows that.

00:24:31Guest:And it was directed by a brilliant director called Mark Rydell.

00:24:35Marc:Yeah.

00:24:36Guest:And it just was a big flop.

00:24:39Marc:Yeah.

00:24:39Guest:But that's what I mean about the process.

00:24:41Marc:I loved James Caan.

00:24:43Marc:I loved Elliot Gould when I was a kid.

00:24:44Marc:Of course.

00:24:45Marc:And I remember seeing that.

00:24:46Marc:I probably saw it with my parents.

00:24:47Marc:But I remember also James Caan and Alan Arkin in Freebie and the Bean.

00:24:52Marc:Yes.

00:24:52Marc:There were these weird movies that these guys did that I remember seeing and I loved them, but they didn't do well, huh?

00:24:59No.

00:24:59Marc:But let's go back.

00:25:00Guest:So that's when we met.

00:25:01Marc:Oh, okay.

00:25:02Marc:So you go to prep school in Connecticut.

00:25:05Marc:That's fancy.

00:25:06Marc:And you feel like your parents pushed you both into different prep schools so they could figure out how to separate?

00:25:12Guest:No, I think that they...

00:25:15Guest:did what they thought was best for us in that I was in love with theater.

00:25:22Marc:You knew that from an early how old?

00:25:25Guest:Oh yes, I started doing children's theater when I was like six.

00:25:29Marc:Oh really?

00:25:29Guest:Yeah.

00:25:30Marc:In Cleveland?

00:25:31Guest:In Cleveland, yeah.

00:25:32Guest:And so then they sent me to a school that had a fantastic drama teacher.

00:25:44Guest:It's a school actually that Mike Nichols went to, but now it's closed.

00:25:48Guest:What was it called?

00:25:49Guest:It was called Cherry Lawn in Darien, Connecticut.

00:25:53Guest:And in fact, I think that most of the kids were there because there was trouble at home, which I didn't know until my second year.

00:26:03Marc:A bunch of other anxious kids.

00:26:05Guest:Yeah.

00:26:06Guest:And then my sister loved horses and dogs and animals, and they sent her to a Quaker boarding school in the Carolinas where she could in fact have a horse and a dog.

00:26:21Guest:So I think they were being very thoughtful.

00:26:24Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:26:26Guest:And yet it was sort of the end of the family, you know.

00:26:30Guest:It has to be.

00:26:31Marc:Yeah.

00:26:32Marc:So while you were there, is that where you did... Do you have a history of learning acting?

00:26:39Marc:Is that where it started?

00:26:40Guest:No.

00:26:42Guest:Well, I guess I really started in children's theater.

00:26:46Guest:We had a...

00:26:47Guest:incredible guy named jerry leonard who ran this theater and we were like six years old yeah and like we did the wizard of oz and you know they say well don't go to the east for in the east you know don't go to the west you remember remember that and and jerry would come storming down the aisle of the theater and

00:27:09Guest:yelling at us that, you know, the West wasn't like just anywhere.

00:27:14Guest:The West is that way.

00:27:17Guest:We had to be professional.

00:27:19Guest:And that was a great beginning.

00:27:21Marc:A grown man yelling at six-year-olds about directions.

00:27:24Guest:But he made us better.

00:27:26Marc:Right.

00:27:26Guest:I'm not kidding.

00:27:27Marc:He wasn't abusive.

00:27:28Guest:He was just perfectionist.

00:27:30Guest:Yes, and he taught us the discipline of what it takes.

00:27:35Guest:What you have to stick with, and it's not so easy if you take it seriously.

00:27:42Marc:So you learned that lesson early.

00:27:44Guest:Then I went to acting school when I moved to

00:27:51Guest:New York.

00:27:52Marc:But what about the boarding school?

00:27:53Marc:Did you do shows?

00:27:54Guest:Oh, we did little plays.

00:27:56Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:27:57Marc:And the guy who was there, the guy that was the big... Basil Burwell was his name.

00:28:04Marc:Right.

00:28:04Marc:But you studied acting, right?

00:28:06Guest:We had acting classes, yeah, and we did plays, and I was very much a perfectionist then.

00:28:13Guest:I was like, if the other kids can't take this seriously, I'm going to go out of my mind.

00:28:19Guest:It was terrible.

00:28:20Marc:Really?

00:28:20Guest:Well, I mean, I don't think it was so terrible for them, but I mean...

00:28:25Guest:For me, it was like, how could they not give this their whole life?

00:28:30Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:31Guest:And I was 12.

00:28:32Marc:So when you're a perfectionist as a performer like that, in acting, I imagine at that age or... Because, I mean, it's one thing to be hard on yourself.

00:28:39Marc:And around acting, it's a little tricky.

00:28:41Marc:I mean, because sometimes all you can know is what you feel, whether you nailed it or not for you.

00:28:47Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:28:47Marc:But I guess it's at a certain point, you're kind of half stage managing everything.

00:28:52Guest:Yeah.

00:28:53Marc:And sort of.

00:28:53Guest:Try not to, but.

00:28:55Marc:Right.

00:28:55Marc:Like, why aren't they doing this?

00:28:56Marc:Why is it?

00:28:57Guest:Yeah.

00:28:58Marc:Continuity issues.

00:28:59Guest:That's something I'm really trying not to do.

00:29:02Marc:Yeah.

00:29:03Guest:Because, you know, I'm working now with younger people who really don't have much experience.

00:29:11Guest:And I'm trying not to be the one that says, no, no, no.

00:29:16Guest:You know?

00:29:17Marc:Right, all young people, right, in terms of directing, production side and everything else?

00:29:23Guest:Well, mostly.

00:29:24Marc:Because it seems like when you started out in the racket, in the show business racket, everybody with kids ran away.

00:29:32Marc:I mean, everyone was pretty young.

00:29:34Marc:The directors, I mean, it was at that time where Hollywood was shifting and these younger directors.

00:29:40Guest:Oh, yes, the 70s.

00:29:41Marc:Right, we're having this great opportunity, right?

00:29:43Guest:My first movie was directed by Mike Nichols.

00:29:46Marc:And what a trippy movie, Carnal Knowledge.

00:29:49Marc:Yeah.

00:29:49Marc:What a bizarro movie that was.

00:29:51Guest:I love that one.

00:29:52Marc:Yeah, I love it, too.

00:29:53Guest:It holds up, by the way.

00:29:54Marc:I bet you, I think the last time I saw it was maybe five years ago.

00:29:57Marc:Yeah.

00:29:57Marc:Like, I do check in with it occasionally.

00:29:59Marc:I think it holds up.

00:30:00Marc:That slideshow at the end.

00:30:01Marc:Oh, my God.

00:30:01Marc:With Nicholson.

00:30:02Guest:Ball busters on parade.

00:30:04Guest:Thank you very much.

00:30:06Marc:Yes.

00:30:07Marc:And, you know, it was sooner than that.

00:30:09Marc:That character, his character was disturbing.

00:30:12Marc:Very disturbing.

00:30:13Marc:And I think sort of timeless as far as toxic masculinity goes.

00:30:15Guest:Yes.

00:30:16Guest:Absolutely crippled.

00:30:18Marc:Yeah.

00:30:19Marc:Crippled.

00:30:19Marc:And you were married to Art Garfunkel?

00:30:21Guest:I was his flower child girlfriend.

00:30:25Marc:Right.

00:30:26Guest:Yeah.

00:30:26Marc:When he acted.

00:30:27Marc:He acted a few times.

00:30:28Marc:Oh, yes.

00:30:29Guest:With Mike, yeah.

00:30:30Marc:Catch-22.

00:30:31Marc:Catch-22, yeah.

00:30:33Marc:And your movie, and I don't remember him in other movies.

00:30:35Marc:I think I just saw him in a movie, and I can't remember what it was.

00:30:40Marc:God damn it.

00:30:41Marc:Yeah.

00:30:41Marc:It's okay.

00:30:42Guest:That's the other thing.

00:30:43Guest:Let it go, Mark.

00:30:45Marc:Right, but Nichols at that time, how old was he?

00:30:47Marc:You were how old when he started the movie?

00:30:50Marc:I was 17.

00:30:50Marc:17?

00:30:50Marc:Yeah.

00:30:51Marc:So you had to get your parents' permission?

00:30:52Guest:Well, almost.

00:30:54Guest:My mother, they were shooting already in Vancouver, and I lived in New York, and so I just met Juliet Taylor, and she sent my phone.

00:31:07Guest:picture to Mike in Vancouver and then they said we want to fly her out there and meet her and if she gets the part she'll stay and if she doesn't she'll go right back so my mother said to the producer well she's only going if you fly her first class because of course she anticipated that I would be flying back with a broken heart the next day so she wanted to have peanuts and food and

00:31:36Guest:Well, just, yeah, how could I possibly go meet Mike Nichols and have this miracle happen?

00:31:46Marc:Yeah, right, right.

00:31:46Guest:Which is insane that that happened to me.

00:31:49Marc:Why didn't you give yourself some credit?

00:31:52Guest:I give myself a little credit, but I'm talking about the greatest director.

00:32:05Guest:And Jack, starting out in that company, it was like a miracle.

00:32:13Marc:So you didn't have to fly back sad.

00:32:16Guest:I didn't have to fly back.

00:32:17Guest:I stayed there.

00:32:19Marc:And so your memories of Mike are, like, moving.

00:32:23Guest:Of course, I'm crying.

00:32:25Marc:Sorry.

00:32:26Guest:Oh, I see you have tissues, so I must not be the first.

00:32:29Marc:It happens.

00:32:30Guest:And I also see you have a scary-looking knife on the tape.

00:32:33Marc:I know.

00:32:34Marc:Like, people distract themselves with things.

00:32:36Guest:With the stuff.

00:32:37Marc:Yeah, I've had stuff here, and I just put, like, I noticed this morning that I didn't have tissues.

00:32:41Marc:I'm glad I put them out.

00:32:42Guest:Oh, did you know that I'd be the sucker that needed them?

00:32:45Marc:No, I didn't.

00:32:46Marc:I just knew that sometimes people need tissues, so I brought them out just today because I'm still getting set up in here.

00:32:52Marc:So what was so amazing about Mike Nichols outside of the fact that he gave you your first opportunity?

00:32:57Marc:Because you've worked with amazing directors.

00:33:00Guest:Yeah.

00:33:01Marc:So what determines that?

00:33:03Guest:In Mike's case, first of all, he is completely brilliant.

00:33:09Guest:In his mind, he's brilliant with music and photographs and literature and all the arts and books.

00:33:18Guest:Intellectual.

00:33:19Guest:Yeah.

00:33:21Guest:But Mike had this gift of...

00:33:24Guest:of making everyone feel that they were the only person that was right for the part.

00:33:33Marc:Oh, it made you feel special.

00:33:36Guest:Yeah, I said to Mike, I guess I'm so nervous that I won't be doing what you want me to do or be able to live up to.

00:33:47Guest:And he said, oh, well, you're perfect.

00:33:51Guest:You can't do anything wrong.

00:33:53Guest:I mean, really.

00:33:54Guest:And then if you believe that a little bit, you are free to do your best work.

00:34:02Guest:And it's a rare thing that a director will just right away give you total freedom and support you in that way.

00:34:13Guest:Yeah, right.

00:34:14Guest:And a brilliant director who'd have every right to say, no, don't do it.

00:34:19Guest:But that's not how Mike works.

00:34:22Marc:And also, I think it seems that if he's he's probably being obviously being genuine.

00:34:27Marc:So he's casting people.

00:34:29Marc:Right.

00:34:29Marc:He's casting people specifically for who they are.

00:34:31Marc:Yeah, because you're singular.

00:34:33Marc:So, you know, the fact that he made you believe that and understand that that early on probably gave you a good foundation just in terms of how to think about acting.

00:34:44Guest:Yes.

00:34:45Marc:That's great.

00:34:46Guest:Yeah.

00:34:47Marc:I get the same with all really with Nicholson, too.

00:34:49Marc:I mean, you know, that there's nobody really does what either of you do.

00:34:54Guest:Oh, Jack, you know, he's just so great.

00:34:56Marc:Did you have scenes with him other than that big slide show scene?

00:35:00Guest:I did, but I had a big scene that was cut where I came back to him, the flower child, without Arthur, and I presented myself to him naked and everything to...

00:35:18Guest:try and i thought i could heal him you know yeah and and and he he didn't want me you know and so that was a another big scene but it got cut oh wow yeah that sounds like a pretty uh it's your first movie and you're naked in front of jack nicholson i know how about that it was that a a bad experience or a good experience shocking i was shocked every second

00:35:44Guest:But I was so young then, too.

00:35:48Marc:He was pretty young, but not that young.

00:35:50Guest:I think he was like 35 or something, and just becoming a giant star.

00:35:57Guest:Easy Rider had come out, and suddenly he was on the front of Time Magazine or something.

00:36:06Guest:He didn't know anything about that.

00:36:09Guest:He was finding his way.

00:36:12Guest:to how that happened to him.

00:36:14Guest:How was he to work with at that point?

00:36:18Guest:Oh, so generous.

00:36:19Guest:Oh, I'm going to tell you.

00:36:20Guest:Okay, I'm going to tell you this story.

00:36:23Guest:It's the best.

00:36:24Guest:Oh, no, I have two.

00:36:25Guest:Should I tell you two Jack Nicholson stories?

00:36:28Marc:Please, because we don't see much of him anymore, and it's sad.

00:36:33Marc:Those of us who grew up watching him.

00:36:35Guest:Being in love with him.

00:36:36Guest:I know.

00:36:37Marc:Even when he'd just sit up front at the Oscars.

00:36:39Guest:Well...

00:36:40Guest:Okay, one of my stories is that, is the Oscars.

00:36:45Guest:So I did a movie called Hester Street.

00:36:49Marc:That was the big movie for you.

00:36:50Guest:Yeah, I got nominated for Best Actress.

00:36:52Marc:That was 1975.

00:36:53Marc:Oh, really?

00:36:54Guest:Okay.

00:36:55Marc:A strange Jewish movie in a way.

00:36:57Guest:Black and white, turn of the century.

00:37:00Marc:I remember it.

00:37:00Marc:Lower East Side.

00:37:01Guest:Lower East Side.

00:37:02Guest:I spoke Yiddish for most of the movie.

00:37:05Guest:The movie cost about $400,000.

00:37:08Marc:It looks like an independent film.

00:37:09Guest:oh, it's the most independent it can be.

00:37:13Guest:And so it was a crazy thing that I got nominated.

00:37:17Marc:Can I just ask you, though, to set that movie up?

00:37:21Marc:Because I was thinking about it, and I think it's been years since I've seen it, but I remember you in it, I remember posters for it, but it dawned on me this morning that this was not a studio film.

00:37:30Marc:And like most of the people that are in it, I have never heard of.

00:37:34Marc:How did that happen?

00:37:35Marc:I mean, was it a big movie?

00:37:36Guest:No, I mean, it was a couple, Joan and Ray Silver.

00:37:43Guest:Joan wrote the script, and it was taken from Jewish Daily Forward and other things.

00:37:52Marc:About the Lower East Side, the first wave of immigrants.

00:37:57Marc:Yeah, people coming over.

00:37:59Marc:Right, like my grandparents.

00:38:00Guest:Oh, yes.

00:38:01Marc:Or great-grandparents, maybe.

00:38:03Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:38:04Marc:Like it was early 1900s?

00:38:06Guest:Yes, it was about 1900 around then.

00:38:10Marc:I remember they shot it all on location, right?

00:38:13Marc:And they made it all... Right.

00:38:15Guest:Except we had a little studio on East 5th Street where the apartment was, my apartment.

00:38:21Marc:East 5th.

00:38:22Guest:Yeah.

00:38:22Guest:There was a little studio, 2nd Avenue and 5th Street.

00:38:25Marc:Interesting.

00:38:26Marc:So these people just put the money together and shot the movie.

00:38:29Guest:Okay, Ray was...

00:38:31Guest:in prefab housing they are also from cleveland and knew my parents by the way okay and ray made a great deal of money as a businessman in prefab housing oh that's what he sold that was his yes yeah and joan um wrote this genius script i think it was a a script that when i read it i was watching the movie i thought i was watching the movie

00:38:56Guest:And so I tried out for that several times and also worked with someone from the Yiddish theater to coach me because I really spoke Yiddish for two-thirds of the movie.

00:39:07Marc:Did you have family that spoke Yiddish?

00:39:10Guest:Not around me.

00:39:11Guest:Right.

00:39:12Guest:My grandmother, of course, spoke Yiddish, but she was one of the people that didn't really want to

00:39:19Guest:be talking about before.

00:39:23Marc:She was American.

00:39:26Marc:Right, right.

00:39:26Marc:They wanted to let go of that.

00:39:29Guest:We're from Russia?

00:39:31Guest:Russia, Austria.

00:39:32Marc:I got Russia and Austria.

00:39:35Marc:I got Russia and Poland.

00:39:37Marc:I just did Finding Your Roots.

00:39:39Marc:How was that?

00:39:39Marc:It was cool.

00:39:41Guest:It was cool.

00:39:42Marc:Yeah, man.

00:39:43Marc:I learned a lot of stuff.

00:39:44Marc:A lot of Russians.

00:39:45Marc:A lot of the Pale of Settlement section of Russia.

00:39:50Marc:Most, I think, Ashkenazis contract themselves back to there.

00:39:55Marc:And then Ukraine, Poland.

00:39:57Guest:Yeah, Poland.

00:39:57Marc:Yeah.

00:39:58Marc:And some...

00:39:59Marc:It was mostly Russia and Poland.

00:40:01Marc:Yeah.

00:40:03Marc:So that's where you come from.

00:40:05Guest:Yeah.

00:40:06Marc:So you're learning Yiddish.

00:40:07Marc:You're getting coached.

00:40:08Guest:For the audition.

00:40:10Guest:The last phase of the many auditions was to audition in Yiddish.

00:40:16Guest:And I don't know.

00:40:17Guest:I got that part.

00:40:19Guest:That great, great, great part.

00:40:21Marc:Did people go to the movies?

00:40:22Marc:Did they go see it?

00:40:24Guest:I think people went to see it.

00:40:26Guest:I mean...

00:40:27Guest:Okay, I'll tell you how I got nominated, I think.

00:40:30Guest:There was a retired publicist.

00:40:34Guest:I believe he worked with Jack Warner, one of the great studio heads.

00:40:39Guest:And he was retired, but he...

00:40:43Guest:as he told me, liked a dark horse.

00:40:46Guest:And he came out of retirement to do Julie Christie's campaign for Darling, which she won.

00:40:52Guest:She won.

00:40:53Marc:The year before you or two?

00:40:55Guest:I don't know the exact date.

00:40:57Guest:So he figured that I was the darkest of horses in this tiny old movie.

00:41:03Guest:And

00:41:03Guest:Since he came from old, old Hollywood, this brilliant guy took the film, and I'm talking about film, cans of film, two big cans of film, over to Frank Sinatra's house, and he had some people, Rosalind Russell's house.

00:41:26Guest:Oh, the Voting Academy.

00:41:27Yeah.

00:41:27Guest:And they had people over.

00:41:28Guest:In those days, you know, it was much more personal.

00:41:32Marc:It was a smaller business.

00:41:33Guest:Everything was smaller.

00:41:35Guest:And, you know, there weren't a million movies because there wasn't streaming stuff or whatever.

00:41:41Guest:So he physically took those cans to people's houses.

00:41:45Marc:Influential people.

00:41:46Marc:Who could vote.

00:41:47Marc:Right.

00:41:48Guest:And, you know, they'd have a dinner and then they'd have a screening.

00:41:51Marc:That's how it worked, huh?

00:41:53Guest:And that's how I believe that I owe it to Max.

00:41:55Guest:I mean, I owe it to the brilliance of the role, but also to Max.

00:42:00Marc:Yeah.

00:42:01Marc:But also then you know all those people saw the movie.

00:42:05Guest:They saw the movie.

00:42:06Marc:And you got nominated?

00:42:08Marc:Yeah.

00:42:09Marc:And who won?

00:42:10Guest:Oh, Louise Fletcher won for Cuckoo's Nest.

00:42:13Marc:So you saw Jack again.

00:42:14Marc:So this is where you get us back to the story.

00:42:16Guest:Okay, so the story, that story, and I have another great one, but that story is when you get nominated for an Oscar, you...

00:42:29Guest:Suddenly, everyone in the world wants to talk to you, and everyone in the world wants to send you flowers and give you free things.

00:42:40Guest:We didn't have swag bags in those days, so I missed out on that.

00:42:44Guest:But it's just like a hurricane.

00:42:47Marc:You had more fun, I think.

00:42:48Marc:Maybe.

00:42:48Marc:Yeah.

00:42:49Guest:so it's like a hurricane and and i was so young i think i was 23 when at the ceremony or something and so all this happened to me and i was at the oscars and there was jack right you know giving me a smile did he win that year too he won best actor best actor mcmurphy yes okay and i did not win yeah

00:43:15Guest:And I woke up the next day in my Beverly Hills Hotel, which was like fantasy land, you know.

00:43:28Guest:And the phone didn't ring to the extent where I think I picked it up like you do if you're in love with someone and you don't know why they're not calling and you figure it must be because the phone is broken.

00:43:40Marc:You felt like you'd just been lost and no one wanted to talk to you.

00:43:45Guest:It was bizarre.

00:43:47Guest:It was science fictional.

00:43:48Guest:The commotion and then boom, nothing.

00:43:51Guest:Except then I get a call from Jack around...

00:43:56Guest:11.30 or 12.

00:43:59Guest:Yeah.

00:44:00Guest:Did I want to come have Mexican food at El Cholo's with he and Angelica?

00:44:06Guest:This is the day after he won.

00:44:09Guest:And he knew what that next day is like.

00:44:14Guest:Because that, you know, he didn't win everything.

00:44:17Guest:Right.

00:44:17Guest:So he knew that it would be very quiet and it would be a hard day.

00:44:23Yeah.

00:44:23Guest:And he picked me up and took me to lunch and got me out of my doldrums.

00:44:30Marc:Oh, that's sweet.

00:44:31Guest:It's crazy that he did that, you know, that he thought of me that next day.

00:44:35Marc:That's sweet.

00:44:37Marc:It's very moving.

00:44:38Guest:Yeah, I know.

00:44:39Guest:So then I have another one.

00:44:40Guest:Should I tell you the other one?

00:44:42Guest:The other one was that I did The Last Detail.

00:44:45Marc:I love that movie.

00:44:45Marc:You're so good in that movie.

00:44:47Guest:Thank you.

00:44:47Marc:And Quaid was so good.

00:44:49Guest:Randy and Jack and everybody.

00:44:52Marc:oh yeah hal ashby of course what now like before you tell that story like hal ashby you know when okay in terms of you know we sort of discussed a little bit about mike nichols but hal ashby is sort of a curious guy he was a very unique guy that i don't know a lot about you know what was his process what was he like

00:45:11Guest:He was so involved with the scenes.

00:45:18Guest:And in those days, the director was on the set.

00:45:21Guest:Yeah.

00:45:22Guest:It wasn't in Video Village.

00:45:24Guest:Right.

00:45:24Guest:Way far away.

00:45:26Guest:Yeah.

00:45:27Guest:They were sitting on the set.

00:45:29Guest:And Hal...

00:45:30Guest:He would just crack up out loud while you were shooting.

00:45:35Guest:You know, he couldn't help himself because he would be just gone.

00:45:39Guest:Gone in the movie.

00:45:40Guest:And also incredibly kind person.

00:45:45Marc:Yeah, I mean, I think The Last Detail, which I watch once a year or so.

00:45:49Marc:Oh, do you?

00:45:50Marc:Oh, sure, yeah.

00:45:50Marc:I saw it recently.

00:45:51Guest:Oh, boy.

00:45:52Marc:And, you know, just because of the groove of those movies, you know, it's just there's something totally unique about that.

00:46:00Marc:I just watched The Friends of Eddie Coyle last night.

00:46:02Guest:Isn't that interesting?

00:46:04Guest:Yeah.

00:46:04Guest:I remember that.

00:46:05Marc:It's a heavy movie, man.

00:46:06Marc:I mean, it's a heavy ending.

00:46:08Marc:But yeah, you were so great as sort of like this sweet prostitute.

00:46:13Yeah.

00:46:13Guest:Yeah.

00:46:14Guest:Thank you.

00:46:14Guest:I mean, I thank you for saying that.

00:46:17Marc:Yeah.

00:46:18Marc:But it's such a beautiful movie about when they have to let him go.

00:46:24Guest:Oh, my God.

00:46:25Guest:It's terrible.

00:46:26Marc:And it's sort of different for Jack.

00:46:27Marc:I mean, there's something, you know, him struggling with the emotions of what he has to do.

00:46:33Guest:Yeah, because he's a career guy.

00:46:34Guest:He's a lifer.

00:46:37Marc:And he likes the kid.

00:46:38Guest:Yeah, they loved the kids.

00:46:40Marc:And Otis with Otis Young is the other guy.

00:46:42Marc:Otis Young, yeah.

00:46:43Marc:It was great.

00:46:44Marc:But yeah, yeah.

00:46:45Marc:So, okay, so what's the other Jack story?

00:46:47Guest:Okay.

00:46:48Guest:So, in the movie, it starts out in the little parlor of a horror house.

00:46:54Guest:Right.

00:46:55Guest:And the scene that my portion.

00:47:00Guest:So and Randy Quaid's character is told that he can pick any of the prostitutes.

00:47:07Guest:Yeah.

00:47:08Guest:And he picks me.

00:47:09Guest:Yeah.

00:47:10Guest:And so then Jack kind of comes in the room with us where everything's supposed to happen and, you know, kind of tells me that he's kind of a first-timer in this and that.

00:47:25Marc:Right, I remember, yeah.

00:47:26Guest:Right.

00:47:27Guest:And then he's supposed to leave.

00:47:30Marc:Yeah.

00:47:32Guest:And the scene keeps going inside that room.

00:47:38Guest:But I have... I close the door after Jack.

00:47:42Guest:But it's not really supposed to close all the way because the camera is looking into that room.

00:47:49Guest:So it's supposed to close, movie close, like just enough inches from the camera so that they can still see the scene.

00:47:59Guest:And again, I was very young and...

00:48:02Guest:I was very nervous and every time it came to the point where I was supposed to close the door, I closed the door.

00:48:12Guest:Yeah, all the way.

00:48:13Guest:Except that Jack knew after that happened once or twice that that was going to happen every time.

00:48:22Guest:Yeah.

00:48:23Guest:And he was so kind that he stayed right next to the camera every take.

00:48:30Guest:And when I tried to close the door, he put his hand in the way and stopped it where it needed to be for the camera.

00:48:37Guest:And he didn't laugh at me or make fun of me.

00:48:40Guest:He just made it possible for the scene to continue without saying anything.

00:48:45Guest:Nothing.

00:48:46Guest:Just did it.

00:48:48Guest:So I just think those are stories of such kindness and empathy, you know.

00:48:52Marc:He loves, you know, I can't remember if I was talking to Brooks, James Brooks or Carl Reiner, but there was, you know, but it was about a few good men that, you know, they were doing Tom Cruise's coverage or Bacon's coverage.

00:49:08Marc:I don't remember whose coverage, but.

00:49:09Marc:Nicholson was on the stand, but it was the other side.

00:49:13Marc:And they were like, you can take a break, Jack.

00:49:16Marc:And Jack was like, he just kept, he stayed there and he kept acting at the intensity that the role required.

00:49:23Guest:That's his generosity as an artist.

00:49:26Marc:And they asked him, what do you do that for?

00:49:27Marc:He goes, I love to act.

00:49:29Guest:Isn't that great?

00:49:31Guest:I love to act.

00:49:33Guest:Yeah.

00:49:34Marc:Yeah, and there is a generosity there.

00:49:36Marc:Yeah.

00:49:37Marc:That's great.

00:49:37Marc:Those are great stories.

00:49:38Marc:Yeah.

00:49:39Marc:They're very touching.

00:49:40Marc:And then you work with, like, we're never going to get through every movie, but these defining movies, because Dog Day Afternoon, you were in the bank, right?

00:49:49Marc:Yes.

00:49:50Marc:That was a lot of screen time for you.

00:49:53Marc:Yes.

00:49:54Marc:That was crazy.

00:49:55Guest:With Mr. Pacino.

00:49:57Marc:Young Pacino.

00:49:58Guest:Who I just worked with again.

00:49:59Marc:For this new thing you're doing, Hunters?

00:50:01Guest:Hunters.

00:50:02Guest:For Amazon, it stars Al.

00:50:05Marc:I mean, you were with Al when he was like, you know, there was a strange, like the vulnerability there.

00:50:12Marc:To see who he was in Serpico and in definitely, I think, Dog Day Afternoon more than any of the other younger Al ones.

00:50:22Guest:Oh, so beautiful.

00:50:23Marc:Really sweet.

00:50:24Marc:Well, I don't know.

00:50:24Guest:There's a Panic and Needle Park.

00:50:26Marc:Panic and Needle Park and Scarecrow.

00:50:29Marc:And Justice for All is a little later, right, Scarecrow.

00:50:33Guest:But also Al and I did several plays together when we were young, and he was just brilliant on the stage.

00:50:40Marc:So open, right?

00:50:41Guest:Yeah.

00:50:43Marc:It's really something.

00:50:44Guest:It's fun to be on the other side of things and work again, you know.

00:50:48Guest:with that with that yeah i bet i mean 30 years in between or something and you guys hadn't really talked or anything or we'd see each other once in a while because um i belonged to the actor's studio and i was president and you know we would see each other at gatherings and things like that but not we hadn't worked together did you work at the actor's studio did you train there

00:51:11Guest:I trained with a woman named Marilyn Freed who trained with Strasburg, and then I became a member, but I was never brave enough to get up and do a scene.

00:51:26Guest:Isn't that terrible?

00:51:26Marc:Really?

00:51:27Marc:When you were younger, you mean?

00:51:28Guest:Yeah.

00:51:28Marc:Why?

00:51:29Marc:Who was there?

00:51:29Marc:What was so intimidating?

00:51:31Marc:Was Strasburg still there?

00:51:33Guest:No, I saw him a couple times moderate, and that was very intimidating.

00:51:43Guest:it felt so hallowed to me you know and so vulnerable because you're putting up work that is not supposed to be finished in any way and

00:51:58Guest:It doesn't matter if you don't even get the first sentence of the scene you're doing out.

00:52:04Guest:You just are doing a process.

00:52:07Guest:And I just couldn't take it if I did a bad job.

00:52:13Marc:Too vulnerable?

00:52:14Guest:I guess so.

00:52:15Marc:But you would hang out?

00:52:18Guest:Yes.

00:52:19Guest:And Ellen Burstyn, she's the one that accepted me and later also even put me on the board.

00:52:29Guest:What does she know, right?

00:52:32Guest:And we just did a play in London, Ellen and I,

00:52:37Guest:and Keira Knightley and Elizabeth Moss called The Children's Hour, Lillian Hellman.

00:52:47Guest:Ellen was just amazing to work with.

00:52:49Marc:Wow, when was that, last year?

00:52:51Guest:No, that was, I say we just did because it feels like it, but I think it was about seven years ago.

00:52:57Marc:So most of your training was with Freed?

00:53:00Guest:Yes.

00:53:01Marc:And she was a Strasburg student.

00:53:05Guest:And she became a coach for a lot of people.

00:53:11Guest:And you did private with her?

00:53:13Guest:I did class and I did private.

00:53:15Guest:And she was my...

00:53:17Guest:coach on Hester Street.

00:53:22Marc:Keeping you in line.

00:53:22Marc:Keeping you focused.

00:53:26Guest:Just helping me get as far

00:53:30Guest:into the emotional life as was needed.

00:53:36Marc:That's great.

00:53:37Marc:I've never seen, well, I haven't done that kind of acting my whole life until recently I was on a set where there was dialect coach and also an acting coach.

00:53:45Marc:What was that?

00:53:46Marc:That was for this Aretha Franklin biopic I did with Jennifer Hudson.

00:53:51Guest:Oh, my God.

00:53:52Marc:I played Jerry Wexler.

00:53:53Marc:And so I didn't need the acting coach, but the dialect coach was sort of paying attention to my Brooklynese or my New Yorker.

00:54:00Guest:What was it supposed to be, your dialect?

00:54:02Marc:That was it.

00:54:03Marc:It was just New York, you know, and I could do it.

00:54:05Marc:Yeah.

00:54:06Marc:But, like, you know, sometimes you drift, and they're the kind of there.

00:54:10Marc:He'll come in after a day and go, like, when you say, you know, park.

00:54:12Marc:You know, park.

00:54:13Marc:Not park.

00:54:14Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:54:16Guest:They did that on Hunters a lot.

00:54:18Guest:Oh, really?

00:54:18Guest:Like, they really, you know...

00:54:20Guest:had to have that Yiddish, again Yiddish, because we were from Poland, had to have it perfect.

00:54:28Marc:Is this a modern-day piece, Hunters?

00:54:30Guest:No, it takes place in 1970.

00:54:32Guest:Oh, good, because I was wondering.

00:54:35Marc:I watched a trailer, and I was in the camp, and I'm like, I don't think any of them are alive anymore, so it's in the 70s.

00:54:42Guest:It takes place in the 70s, but there are a lot of flashbacks back to Auschwitz camp.

00:54:48Marc:And this is Jordan Peele?

00:54:51Guest:Yes.

00:54:53Guest:And David Weil and Nicky Toscano, they're the writer-producers.

00:54:58Guest:And, yeah, it's an amazing show, I think.

00:55:03Marc:Is it a series or a miniseries?

00:55:05Guest:We did 10.

00:55:06Marc:Okay.

00:55:06Guest:But it's not, they intend to do another season, but, you know, that's the other thing I've learned with age is just don't count on it.

00:55:14Marc:Don't count on anything.

00:55:15Marc:Well, yeah, it's weird.

00:55:15Marc:The horrible thing about that is because I'm on a series that actually got announced that we're doing the fourth and final season.

00:55:21Marc:But it's nice to know that.

00:55:23Marc:Because when you do a series, you know, and after every 10 episodes now, you know, you've got to wait a year.

00:55:30Marc:Not just a panic, but you've got to kind of half end it.

00:55:32Marc:If you're the creator, you've got to know that 10 has to have enough closure to be it.

00:55:43Marc:I think it's nice that we're heading into this season and the creators and the showrunners know

00:55:48Marc:It's over because now they can finish it properly.

00:55:51Guest:Yeah, you know, we did Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt for four years.

00:55:55Guest:People love that show.

00:55:57Guest:And we did not know that it was ending until very close to the end.

00:56:05Guest:Yeah.

00:56:05Guest:And they did...

00:56:07Guest:Tina and Faye and Robert Carlock, they did this genius job of wrapping up our stories.

00:56:15Guest:But they really didn't have much warning.

00:56:17Guest:And I think it's great to know how much time you have.

00:56:22Marc:And to be honest with you, I don't think anything needs to be more than four or five seasons.

00:56:27Guest:I guess so.

00:56:28Marc:I mean, I know it's nice to work and everybody wants to work, but I mean, in terms of storytelling.

00:56:34Guest:Maybe not.

00:56:35Marc:You know, a lot of them, you know, they start to eat themselves.

00:56:38Guest:Oh, I don't know that that was happening.

00:56:40Marc:I'm not saying it was happening, but it just feels to me.

00:56:44Guest:I know what you're saying.

00:56:46Guest:We did get to do a Kimmy Schmidt movie for Netflix, which is an interactive movie.

00:56:52Guest:Did it happen already?

00:56:54Guest:It's coming out in May, I think.

00:56:55Marc:An interactive movie?

00:56:57Guest:Meaning that the audience, forget it, I couldn't do it because I'm just so ignorant about computers and stuff.

00:57:03Guest:But the audience picks where each character is going to go.

00:57:07Guest:They have like four different endings.

00:57:10Marc:Oh, right, right.

00:57:10Marc:Yeah, Soderbergh did a thing like that or something.

00:57:12Guest:I think so.

00:57:13Guest:And then they pick.

00:57:15Guest:So there's like four different movies within the one movie, depending on what path you choose for each character.

00:57:21Marc:Yeah, it was a Sharon Stone thing.

00:57:24Marc:What the hell was that?

00:57:25Marc:Yeah, that was Soderbergh.

00:57:26Marc:Right, it was, right.

00:57:27Guest:And Paul Rubens was in that, and he was so good in that.

00:57:31Marc:Yeah.

00:57:32Marc:All right, so just let's stay in the past for a second more.

00:57:35Marc:Okay.

00:57:36Marc:Because these movies were so defining, and these directors, like, you know, Nichols, and then Ashby, and then Sidney Lumet.

00:57:46Guest:Dog Day.

00:57:47Marc:Because they're all very, like, I would say that it feels to me that in tone, there may be a similarity between Ashby and Lumet.

00:57:56Guest:I will say that Sidney directed the movie with a month of rehearsal before we started shooting.

00:58:07Guest:Of Dog Day.

00:58:08Guest:So we were running through it like a play.

00:58:11Guest:Oh, really?

00:58:12Guest:In another place on 2nd Avenue, above the 2nd Avenue Deli or something.

00:58:17Guest:There was a big hall, and they taped it off like they do when you're in the theater to show what's where.

00:58:23Guest:Yeah.

00:58:24Guest:And we rehearsed that thing until we could do it as a play because we weren't going to shoot in continuity, but he wanted us to have the whole thing.

00:58:34Marc:That's so smart.

00:58:35Guest:It's unbelievable.

00:58:36Marc:To know the story so you can act appropriately.

00:58:38Marc:That's the hardest thing I think about acting is when you shoot out of sequence and then you have to be refreshed with, where am I emotionally or physically in this?

00:58:48Yeah.

00:58:48Guest:Well, back in the old days, I did a Canadian movie called Wedding in White, which won Best Film in the Canadian Film Festival, and it was with Donald Petrie, a great actor.

00:59:03Guest:Yeah.

00:59:05Guest:And you know, I used to go to the rushes every day.

00:59:10Guest:Oh, really?

00:59:11Guest:Because I was the central character.

00:59:14Guest:And we were jumping around so much that we shot the last scene in the movie the first day we shot.

00:59:22Guest:Yeah.

00:59:22Guest:And in those days, you know, the actors, they could have that in their contract to go sit and watch it.

00:59:31Guest:And then you could track for yourself.

00:59:34Guest:Right.

00:59:35Guest:Right.

00:59:35Guest:where you were emotionally each day.

00:59:37Guest:Oh, really?

00:59:38Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:39Guest:Yeah, you could see, oh, this, but that means tomorrow when I get into this, I have to, yeah.

00:59:44Guest:Oh, that's helpful.

00:59:45Guest:Yeah, it was so helpful.

00:59:46Guest:And those were the days when I could actually look at myself on screen, which is no longer the case.

00:59:52Guest:Oh, really?

00:59:53Guest:Yes.

00:59:54Marc:Oh, well, I'm sorry.

00:59:55Marc:Yeah.

00:59:55Marc:So then you did Annie Hall, which, what, Alison Portchnick?

00:59:59Guest:Yeah.

01:00:00Guest:First wife.

01:00:02Marc:But he's a different type of director than those other guys, right?

01:00:05Marc:Oh, yes.

01:00:06Marc:From what I've talked to people, he says, you know, you're supposed to know what you're doing.

01:00:11Guest:That's right.

01:00:12Guest:And he, again, like Mike, I think, he relied totally on the casting.

01:00:19Guest:And, again, Juliet Taylor did most of his casting.

01:00:23Guest:And...

01:00:24Guest:he so he would cast the person that he thought was perfect for the role because he really didn't feel like he wanted to be heavily directing people right especially he was in the movie you know with you and um and he yeah so he basically left it up to you and if it was really off what he wanted then he would say something but he didn't say a lot yeah

01:00:49Marc:But like it's hard, like I guess I wanted to get, I got locked into these earlier movies because that's, I think, sort of defined you in the public eye a lot, right?

01:00:57Marc:I hope so, because those were the days.

01:01:00Marc:Yeah, and I remember them very, you know, I love you in all those movies.

01:01:04Marc:Thank you.

01:01:04Marc:And I've seen a lot of the other movies as things, like I remember seeing you, I think like the first in my mind,

01:01:11Marc:the kind of resurrection, or not resurrection, because you work constantly, but for me to re-notice you was like the Princess Bride.

01:01:18Guest:Yeah.

01:01:18Marc:Like, all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, my God, it's Carol Kane.

01:01:21Marc:And Scrooge.

01:01:21Marc:And Scrooge, yeah.

01:01:23Guest:Yeah.

01:01:23Marc:But you work constantly.

01:01:25Marc:Well, it's- You did the, you work with Gene Wilder.

01:01:28Guest:Yeah, that was great.

01:01:30Marc:The world's greatest.

01:01:30Guest:The world's greatest.

01:01:31Guest:Oh, my God.

01:01:32Guest:You know, that's a great movie that didn't get paid much attention.

01:01:37Guest:I know.

01:01:37Guest:I think it came out at the same time as High Anxiety, maybe, the Mel Brooks movie.

01:01:44Marc:It was similar to a Mel Brooks movie in a way.

01:01:46Marc:Well, yeah.

01:01:47Guest:And so I don't know what happened, but I think it's a really good movie.

01:01:51Marc:But Gene, you guys together, come on.

01:01:53Guest:Yeah, that was great.

01:01:54Marc:He was great.

01:01:55Guest:Yes, he was great.

01:01:56Marc:So funny.

01:01:58Guest:He's a funny guy.

01:01:59Guest:I noticed that.

01:02:01Guest:I watched Young Frankenstein again the other day, and I just thought, oh, he is just too funny.

01:02:06Marc:He just had this weird build where he'd start slow.

01:02:09Guest:Yeah, and I also... I watched Bonnie and Clyde.

01:02:13Marc:Yeah, right in the back of the car.

01:02:14Guest:Oh, my God, that little part, and he was so brilliant, right?

01:02:18Guest:Yeah.

01:02:18Marc:Yeah.

01:02:19Marc:What was it?

01:02:19Marc:Was he a nice guy to work with?

01:02:21Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:02:22Marc:He's sweet, huh?

01:02:23Guest:Yeah.

01:02:23Marc:I guess it gets sad.

01:02:24Marc:You know, you talk about so many people are gone now.

01:02:28Marc:And then what was the other one I was just thinking of?

01:02:30Marc:I had no idea that you were an Ishtar because I never saw it.

01:02:33Guest:Well, there's another one for you to see.

01:02:36Marc:Some people say it's not bad.

01:02:37Guest:Oh, it's not bad.

01:02:40Guest:I don't know what happened when it got attacked.

01:02:43Guest:Yeah, it's got some great stuff in it, actually.

01:02:45Marc:Is it funny?

01:02:47Guest:Yeah, it is funny.

01:02:48Guest:It's Elaine May.

01:02:49Marc:Yeah, you work with the Nichols and May at different times.

01:02:53Marc:So as you get, how do you determine, because it's really kind of astounding how much you work.

01:03:00Marc:You just keep going.

01:03:02Marc:You just keep doing it.

01:03:03Marc:I hope so.

01:03:04Marc:No, you must love it, right?

01:03:06Marc:I love it, yeah.

01:03:06Marc:I worked with you, not really, I was in the same movie.

01:03:09Marc:Yes, well, yeah.

01:03:10Marc:I was in Michael Bigley's movie, which you were great in.

01:03:12Guest:Which you were great in.

01:03:14Marc:Sleepwalk with me.

01:03:15Marc:Yeah, and that's where I met you the first time.

01:03:17Marc:That was so fun.

01:03:18Marc:In Sundance, I think.

01:03:19Marc:Yes.

01:03:20Marc:But that was fun.

01:03:20Marc:That was fun.

01:03:21Marc:How do you determine what you're going to do?

01:03:24Marc:Well.

01:03:25Marc:Have you been with the same agent forever?

01:03:28Guest:I've been with one a long time.

01:03:31Guest:Not forever.

01:03:33Guest:I made some bad choices of leaving some great people because after Hester Street, the phone didn't ring for a year until Gene called.

01:03:46Marc:Really?

01:03:47Guest:Michael, you say I work all the time.

01:03:50Marc:After Hester Street?

01:03:52Guest:No.

01:03:52Guest:No, I didn't work for a year, a solid year.

01:03:55Guest:Wow.

01:03:56Guest:And that happened a lot between movies for me because I'm not a, you know, I mean, I got nominated for playing a woman with a scheidel on, you know, so what's the next movie that that's going to, you know.

01:04:11Guest:Yeah.

01:04:12Guest:And so...

01:04:13Guest:A lot of people just didn't understand who I might be.

01:04:18Guest:So long periods I didn't work, and I was with some great agents that I left because I wasn't working.

01:04:32Guest:But now I love the people I'm working with.

01:04:36Guest:And I've had a very strangely good run for the last five years.

01:04:42Guest:And also because of Kimmy and the hunters, you know, and also shooting in Brooklyn, which means I get to live at home in New York and just get in the van and go to Brooklyn.

01:04:54Marc:So much better, right?

01:04:55Guest:I still am, you know, praying that someday I'll get to work with Marty Scorsese, you know, Robert.

01:05:02Guest:I mean, you don't want to leave the earth alone.

01:05:05Guest:Without that happening.

01:05:07Marc:It seems like you're of that generation.

01:05:12Marc:You're in that community.

01:05:13Marc:You guys all kind of know each other.

01:05:15Marc:You've worked with Pacino, and you're working with him again.

01:05:18Marc:Where's your Scorsese De Niro shot?

01:05:20Guest:I don't know.

01:05:22Guest:You're in New York.

01:05:23Guest:You can't imagine how much I hope that that will happen one day.

01:05:28Marc:I hope so, too, now.

01:05:29Marc:And the taxi thing was huge, too.

01:05:31Marc:You were on taxi for years, right?

01:05:33Guest:I was, you know what, I was only on taxi, I think, a year and a half, actually.

01:05:43Guest:Oh, yeah?

01:05:43Guest:I got brought in, or maybe it was a little longer than that, maybe it was two seasons, and I got brought in in the first season, and then I was gone for a while, and then

01:05:58Guest:I came back and became Andy's girlfriend and then his wife.

01:06:04Marc:What was your relationship with Andy like?

01:06:08Guest:So complicated and strange and wonderful.

01:06:13Marc:That sounds like everyone's relationship with Andy Kaufman.

01:06:17Marc:That might be true.

01:06:18Guest:Although, you know, Andy had some very good friends, but we at Taxi were not one of them.

01:06:25Guest:We were work.

01:06:27Guest:Yeah.

01:06:27Guest:Yeah, and Elaine, and yeah, and a lot of people.

01:06:30Guest:The comics.

01:06:31Guest:We were at work, and he separated Taxi from his other life, you know?

01:06:40Guest:And the thing about Andy and I, and I did love him, is that...

01:06:49Guest:I came from the theater, so I like to rehearse.

01:06:53Guest:Andy came from, well, you could say stand-up, or you could say performance art.

01:06:59Guest:But in any case, he hated rehearsing, and he said it was bad for what he did.

01:07:07Guest:Is that true of most stand-ups?

01:07:10Guest:No.

01:07:10Guest:Well, that was Andy's feeling about it, is he wanted it spontaneous.

01:07:15Marc:Yeah, I understand that, yeah.

01:07:17Guest:So he had it in his contract that he would only come two days a week.

01:07:22Guest:He'd come for the read-through, and then he wouldn't be back till Friday when we taped the show.

01:07:28Guest:And there'd be a fake Andy all the other time for rehearsal.

01:07:32Guest:A guy named Jeff, lovely guy.

01:07:35Guest:And so every time, every Friday...

01:07:40Guest:I would have gotten so angry during the course of the week because I wanted to rehearse with him, you know.

01:07:49Guest:Yeah, sure.

01:07:49Guest:And so I would come to his dressing room or he mine and I would say, look, Andy, I have to talk to you because I understand, you know, that you can't.

01:08:03Guest:But for me, it just means everything.

01:08:08Guest:And then he'd say, I understand.

01:08:10Guest:I understand completely, but I just can't do it.

01:08:13Guest:And we'd have a talk like that.

01:08:15Guest:And by the end of that talk, we would be able to be in love.

01:08:21Marc:So you got what you needed.

01:08:22Guest:Yes.

01:08:23Marc:Right.

01:08:24Guest:And I think it was good for Andy, too, because we had a relationship privately just then.

01:08:34Marc:Right, discussing why he can't do what you...

01:08:37Marc:well needed him to do yeah and why i can't do it he right needs to do so you were able to emotionally connect with him in a genuine way exactly enough to work the go out there and do it yeah well that i think that was speaks more to your uh capacity for adapting uh

01:08:58Guest:I don't know.

01:08:59Guest:I was lucky to work with them, you know.

01:09:00Marc:No, no, I know.

01:09:01Marc:I know what I mean.

01:09:02Marc:But, like, you can see the way you put it in retrospect is that it worked for you.

01:09:07Marc:Yes.

01:09:08Marc:Right?

01:09:08Marc:Definitely.

01:09:09Marc:But in the moment, were you thinking that?

01:09:11Marc:That it would work?

01:09:12Marc:Well, that, you know, this is, I'm getting what I need.

01:09:15Guest:Yeah, I knew it was necessary because I knew that we would be distant without it.

01:09:22Guest:We hadn't seen each other.

01:09:24Guest:He was in a different world, and we would work.

01:09:29Marc:Well, when he was spontaneous, do you have any problem sort of being the foil of that?

01:09:36Marc:When you're working with somebody like him as an actor who likes rehearsal...

01:09:40Marc:What do you do in that situation?

01:09:41Guest:Oh, no, I like it to be spontaneous, too.

01:09:44Guest:It's just that my way of getting to spontaneity is the opposite of his.

01:09:50Marc:You need everything to be set so you can launch from there.

01:09:54Marc:So I can go... Right.

01:09:55Marc:He wants whatever.

01:09:56Marc:He doesn't want any of it.

01:09:57Guest:Yeah.

01:09:58Guest:So that's how that was.

01:10:00Guest:Yeah.

01:10:01Marc:Was it fun doing the movie?

01:10:02Guest:You know, he was so brilliant, right?

01:10:04Marc:Yeah, oh yeah.

01:10:05Marc:I think he was.

01:10:06Marc:It's taken me years to appreciate him.

01:10:07Marc:He was never my bag, really, as a comic, but he's really something.

01:10:13Marc:I mean, I've definitely, over the years, grown to have a tremendous amount of respect for the creativity that he has.

01:10:19Guest:I'm so sad, that thing.

01:10:21Guest:Yeah, so, yeah.

01:10:22Marc:What was it like doing the movie with Jim Carrey?

01:10:25Guest:Very strange.

01:10:26Guest:For me, very emotional.

01:10:28Guest:I just couldn't, because Jim was so good.

01:10:32Guest:And we were all there, and they recreated the set.

01:10:37Guest:impeccably.

01:10:39Guest:So suddenly it was like you're back in time for real, you know.

01:10:44Guest:And that's Milos Forman, who's so great also.

01:10:48Guest:And then suddenly there's Andy, you know.

01:10:51Guest:And it was very, for me, I think for most of us, a very strange experience.

01:10:59Marc:I can't imagine.

01:11:00Marc:I think I talked to DeVito about it a little bit.

01:11:03Marc:Yeah.

01:11:04Marc:It must have been just bizarre because Jim was out of his mind.

01:11:07Guest:Yeah.

01:11:09Marc:Yeah.

01:11:09Guest:Oh, Jim Carrey.

01:11:10Marc:Yeah.

01:11:11Guest:Well, genius out of his mind.

01:11:13Guest:Not just out of his mind.

01:11:14Marc:Genius.

01:11:14Marc:But he thought he was possessed.

01:11:16Guest:Well, that's the way he had to do that.

01:11:19Marc:Yeah.

01:11:19Marc:And it was effective for you.

01:11:20Marc:Stay in it.

01:11:21Marc:Yeah.

01:11:22Guest:Stay in it.

01:11:22Marc:And did it feel genuine to you?

01:11:24Guest:Yes.

01:11:24Marc:Yeah.

01:11:25Marc:Wow.

01:11:26Marc:Because some people say it was spooky.

01:11:28Marc:Because I watched the documentary about the... Wasn't that great?

01:11:31Marc:It's crazy, man.

01:11:33Guest:Yeah.

01:11:33Marc:It was crazy.

01:11:34Marc:So it was like you were dealing with a whole other level of insanity.

01:11:38Marc:That wasn't Andy.

01:11:40Marc:This was like someone doing it.

01:11:41Guest:Yeah, but I'll tell you something.

01:11:43Guest:Maybe because of the nature of...

01:11:46Guest:who Jim was and his appreciation for Andy and I together, that he was very gentle to me.

01:11:59Guest:Never did anything crazy to me.

01:12:04Guest:I knew crazy things might have been going on, Tony Clifton things.

01:12:09Marc:The Tony Clifton thing when you were actually with Kaufman, did you remember that?

01:12:14Marc:Him coming on set as Tony?

01:12:15Guest:I wasn't there when he got fired.

01:12:17Guest:He got fired from the show because Tony came on to play Danny's brother.

01:12:25Guest:Right.

01:12:25Guest:And he came to the studio with hookers on his arms and drunk and smoking cigarettes.

01:12:33Guest:And, you know, Andy was microbiotic.

01:12:37Guest:Yeah.

01:12:37Guest:But this other guy, Tony, was this guy that just didn't give a shit about what anybody thought and always picked the most defensive thing to say.

01:12:50Guest:He didn't censor himself.

01:12:52Guest:So he eventually caused so much trouble on the set that week that he was actually, Tony was fired, not Andy.

01:13:03Marc:So everyone had to play along with that.

01:13:04Guest:Yeah.

01:13:05Marc:And it's unclear, because I know Zamuda did Tony once in a while.

01:13:09Guest:He did it once in a while.

01:13:10Guest:Not always, though.

01:13:11Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:13:12Guest:It was Andy's first.

01:13:14Marc:Zamuda's something to talk to.

01:13:15Marc:Yeah, I bet.

01:13:16Marc:Two hours of tall tales.

01:13:18Guest:I bet, yeah.

01:13:19Marc:So, one other question.

01:13:21Marc:Did you have fun with Billy Crystal?

01:13:23Guest:Oh, God.

01:13:25Marc:What a ridiculous question.

01:13:27Marc:That seemed like such a perfect thing, that movie.

01:13:29Guest:Oh, my God.

01:13:29Guest:We had so much fun.

01:13:30Marc:That movie's hilarious.

01:13:31Guest:Except for the prosthetics, which were difficult and long.

01:13:35Guest:But everything else about it was just like, it was like a magical kingdom.

01:13:41Guest:Yeah.

01:13:41Guest:to fly to London and get to work with all those great people and have those fantastic costumes and transform and be with Rob.

01:13:53Guest:We had lenses that made it look like we had cataracts.

01:14:01Guest:We could barely see through them.

01:14:03Guest:And then there was a lot of smoke, of course, because fairy tales spoke.

01:14:07Marc:Sure, you have to.

01:14:08Marc:It took hours.

01:14:09Guest:Oh, God, yes.

01:14:10Marc:Well, best of luck with the new series, Hunter.

01:14:14Marc:Thank you, Mark.

01:14:14Marc:It's about Nazi hunters in the 70s.

01:14:17Marc:Yes.

01:14:18Marc:It's relevant, sadly, sadly relevant.

01:14:22Guest:Sadly, horribly relevant.

01:14:26Marc:And it was a real honor and a pleasure to talk to you.

01:14:28Guest:I feel the same way, Mark.

01:14:30Guest:Thanks.

01:14:30Guest:Thank you.

01:14:33Thank you.

01:14:37Marc:Oh my God.

01:14:38Marc:What a treat.

01:14:40Marc:That was Carol Kane.

01:14:41Marc:That was the Carol Kane.

01:14:43Marc:I got choked up, man.

01:14:45Marc:Her reflecting about, you know, Nicholson.

01:14:47Marc:I just, wow.

01:14:49Marc:The show Hunters, her show with Al Pacino is all season, all episodes of season one are now streaming on Amazon.

01:14:57Marc:I am now going to play my new guitar.

01:15:02Marc:My new Gibson Les Paul Jr.

01:15:05Marc:1960 double cutaway with a single P90 pickup arrived in the mail.

01:15:12Marc:And now I'm going to play it through my 1953 Fender Deluxe amp within the middle plug hole jacked up.

01:15:21Marc:So it just sounds like fucking greasy tinny mud.

01:15:27Marc:Yes.

01:15:28Marc:Yes.

01:15:30Marc:Listen up.

01:15:33Guest:.

01:15:45.

01:15:54.

01:16:12.

01:16:28Guest:Boomer Live.