Episode 1100 - Juliette Lewis

Episode 1100 • Released February 24, 2020 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:Lock the gates!

00:00:09Marc:Alright, let's do this.

00:00:10Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:13Marc:What the fucking ears?

00:00:14Marc:What the fucksters?

00:00:15Marc:What the fuck nicks?

00:00:17Marc:What's happening?

00:00:18Marc:It's Mark Maron.

00:00:18Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.

00:00:20Marc:I'm broadcasting from a hotel room in New Haven, Connecticut.

00:00:24Marc:A pleasant hotel this is.

00:00:26Marc:It is called The Blake.

00:00:29Marc:And the rooms are nice.

00:00:30Marc:There's a whole kitchen here.

00:00:32Marc:Poor Dino, man.

00:00:32Marc:Dino saw this room and he's like, that's all I need, man.

00:00:35Marc:I could live in that room.

00:00:37Marc:It's perfect.

00:00:38Marc:And so I don't know.

00:00:39Marc:I might leave him here and he might live here.

00:00:41Marc:I'm not clear on that.

00:00:44Marc:But I'll see you in a few minutes when we're supposed to leave.

00:00:48Marc:Hey, it could happen.

00:00:49Marc:Weirder things have happened.

00:00:51Marc:We have one more gig here by tomorrow.

00:00:55Marc:When you hear this, I will be flying home and we will have done it.

00:00:59Marc:But I will say this, this has been a great and emotional, somehow emotional little journey that I've embarked on here with my buddy Dean Del Rey.

00:01:11Marc:Juliette Lewis is on the show today.

00:01:16Marc:She's in this Facebook Watch mystery series, Sacred Lies, The Singing Bones.

00:01:23Marc:It's in its second season, and it's now streaming.

00:01:27Marc:She's also going to be on this Bon Scott tribute that Dean's doing.

00:01:32Marc:We've done a couple of these where a bunch of us get together and jam and play the music.

00:01:38Marc:And that's March 10th at the Avalon in Hollywood.

00:01:40Marc:So that's going to happen.

00:01:42Marc:You can go to, I guess, DeanDelRay.com to get tickets, but she's going to be involved with that.

00:01:47Marc:She sings to rock music.

00:01:49Marc:But anyway, so at the end of last year, we marked 10 years of doing WTF, and we thought it would be cool to have some merch that celebrates 10 years of being here.

00:01:57Marc:So we got together with the artist Johnny Jones.

00:02:00Marc:who did the amazing album cover for our Record Store Day release.

00:02:03Marc:Johnny went to work on this and came up with the Decades of Domination collection.

00:02:08Marc:You can see the designs on our Twitter and Facebook and Instagram pages or at podswag.com slash merch.

00:02:14Marc:You really got to see these designs to appreciate them.

00:02:17Marc:But the best I can describe them is that they include laser cats.

00:02:22Marc:giant tentacles ufos and global annihilation how's that and you can get the decade of domination designs on a signed limited edition poster glow-in-the-dark t-shirt and something we've never offered before a writing set which includes an embossed notebook a wtf pen and a gift box

00:02:40Marc:We've got some enamel pins coming in the near future as well.

00:02:43Marc:So come and celebrate a decade of domination with us.

00:02:46Marc:We've all earned it.

00:02:47Marc:God knows.

00:02:48Marc:Go to podswag.com slash WTF or just go to WTFpod.com and click on the merch link.

00:02:56Marc:Okay.

00:02:56Marc:So as I was rambling there about this journey, there was something about the end of this tour, the end of this material and coming back to this part of the country that just, I don't know, I was really looking forward to being in New England in the winter.

00:03:12Marc:I know that sounds crazy.

00:03:14Marc:I didn't know whether or not it would be snowing or there'd be snow everywhere or it would be a problem.

00:03:19Marc:I rented a small SUV just in case.

00:03:21Marc:But this is the region I started in, and these are the gigs that I used to do when I was coming up.

00:03:28Marc:Not even coming up, but the very beginning, driving around these highways, around these states, specifically Maine, Connecticut, Rhode Island, not Huntington, New York.

00:03:38Marc:I never went out on the island that much.

00:03:40Marc:So, you know, kind of flying into Maine and landing in Portland and just feeling that brisk cold and just, you know, having a season, bringing my warm clothes, layering up and getting ready to do these shows and just looking forward to eating seafood and driving along I-95 and just looking at that scenery in the winter, those bare trees, the sort of grayness of it all, the

00:04:05Marc:The sort of just the hours I spent driving into mysterious places, not knowing what the gig would be like, where it would be, how it would be set up, who would come at any sort of random pub or bar and grill or disco or bowling alley where the subcontractor had set up the comedy night and just that weird anticipation, smoking Marlboro cigarettes.

00:04:29Marc:You know, over one after the other, just driving up, looking at my notes in one of my dad's old cars, one of the Honda Accord LXs that I inherited from him, driving up and sometimes the heater not working, sometimes driving all the way up from New York to Maine.

00:04:44Marc:I mean, I did a show in Machias, Maine, which I think is the furthest point east.

00:04:48Marc:uh in in this country to open for an x-rated hypnotist when i was starting out frank santos and i just kind of noticed as we creeped up the coast how the gene pool got tighter and things got weirder and i tell you man there's something about i guess full circle about closure nostalgia i don't know what but we're you know i'm just kind of let go of a lot of my anxiety and and engaged in this process

00:05:10Marc:to do these shows and it's been pretty fucking great.

00:05:13Marc:It's really been pretty great.

00:05:15Marc:But the other element of what's happening for me is that

00:05:22Marc:I'm letting go of this material.

00:05:23Marc:I'm letting go of about an hour and 15 minutes of material because it will be on Netflix on March 10th.

00:05:29Marc:And that's the end of it.

00:05:30Marc:And it is a sort of it's got a dark through line.

00:05:33Marc:I don't think it's cynical.

00:05:34Marc:I think it's exciting.

00:05:36Marc:It deals with a lot of what we're going through now with a certain amount of hopelessness and a feeling of powerlessness and pushing back against that.

00:05:44Marc:And now and how we do it as people.

00:05:46Marc:But maybe I'm reading too much into it.

00:05:48Marc:It's very exciting that out of Nevada, the sort of

00:05:52Marc:The national dialogue around politics is going to be actually progressive, and class issues are going to really come to the fore.

00:06:01Marc:I don't know how everything's going to fall out or how everything's going to play out, but it's a very exciting time.

00:06:10Marc:I don't know if I'm hopeful per se, but I'm excited.

00:06:14Marc:But here's a here's an email from somebody that moved me because I do get down on myself about sometimes about the type of material I'm doing or what I'm putting people through or how they respond to it, because I don't really know.

00:06:26Marc:I don't know.

00:06:27Marc:I move this stuff through my heart and through my mind and and through my hands and through the pen.

00:06:32Marc:And I and I don't know.

00:06:34Marc:It's what I have to do.

00:06:36Marc:So I don't really know how it lands all the time.

00:06:38Marc:And after doing it more and more and sort of adding to this conversation that I've created over the last couple of years, I get excited about it, but it gets heavy, man.

00:06:48Marc:So I got this email from someone named Orla.

00:06:52Marc:Subject line, Providence Columbus Theater feedback.

00:06:54Marc:Totally amazeballs.

00:06:56Marc:Go Jews.

00:07:00Marc:My man, wow, long time fan.

00:07:02Marc:What an incredible show last night.

00:07:03Marc:Part sarcasm, part death, part life, part after death, part Armageddon, part abstract introspection, part intellectual, part imaginative.

00:07:12Marc:I want you to know your closing joke is as funny as you think it is.

00:07:16Marc:I feel like you were suspended in disbelief as each part unfolded.

00:07:21Marc:It was brilliant and the clarity of its deeper meaning was so refreshing to hear and

00:07:25Marc:What a relief there are people out there who see this for what it is.

00:07:28Marc:Authoritarianism on the rise.

00:07:31Marc:We are at the fucking end of times and end game scenarios are worth contemplating.

00:07:36Marc:Dig it.

00:07:37Marc:I say dig it.

00:07:38Marc:It was so incredible to hear a rational person speaking with such charisma and well thought out rhetoric.

00:07:44Marc:And you're nice.

00:07:45Marc:It really made me think of ancient citizens just discussing worthwhile topics in public spaces like Socrates and Plato.

00:07:52Marc:That's my answer to your question at the start of the show when you were like stretching your sciatica and then you just kind of exposed your flesh and bone with the statement, what do I know really?

00:08:01Marc:Well, I'll tell you what you know, man.

00:08:03Marc:You know what the fuck is up.

00:08:05Marc:You have a unique perspective founded in reason and facts and your message resonates.

00:08:10Marc:Your work and the things you say are an echo in this era for reason and goodness.

00:08:14Marc:You have the power to deliver messages to a theater filled with people and millions more each day.

00:08:19Marc:More than that, you are the mark of an era.

00:08:22Marc:not so much a leader as more of a spokesperson for people everywhere that are just like, what the fuck?

00:08:28Marc:And it's just so nice to hear logical things being said out loud and the occasional joke doesn't hurt.

00:08:33Marc:And you examine life out loud as it unfolds and people need to do that more.

00:08:38Marc:So thanks.

00:08:39Marc:All the very best, Orla.

00:08:41Marc:P.S.

00:08:41Marc:Socrates was actually a Jew.

00:08:43Marc:Is that true?

00:08:45Marc:Oh, I don't want to forget this because this was pretty important.

00:08:49Marc:We're driving down to Providence and we're doing a live Instagram thing.

00:08:54Marc:Someone on my Twitter says you got to go to Empire Guitars.

00:08:58Marc:I don't go to a lot of guitar shops.

00:09:01Marc:I get overwhelmed.

00:09:02Marc:I get tired.

00:09:02Marc:I get bored.

00:09:03Marc:But we decided we went online on the phone to look at what they had.

00:09:06Marc:And it was a real deal place.

00:09:07Marc:They had real vintage shit.

00:09:09Marc:And I don't know, man.

00:09:11Marc:I just saw this...

00:09:12Marc:Les Paul Jr., they had several Les Paul Juniors from the 50s and 60s.

00:09:17Marc:One double cutaway, Les Paul Jr.

00:09:19Marc:with the single P90.

00:09:21Marc:I don't know much about guitars, but I know I like that sound.

00:09:25Marc:And I don't know, man.

00:09:27Marc:The rest was sort of like, I put it up on my Instagram.

00:09:30Marc:Dean shot it.

00:09:32Marc:You can see the moment where I'm just like, I love this thing.

00:09:35Marc:And decide, I fall in love with a guitar right there on camera.

00:09:39Marc:And I bought it, and they're shipping it out to me.

00:09:41Marc:It's my first vintage electric guitar purchase.

00:09:43Marc:It was completely reasonable.

00:09:46Marc:It was not gross in any way in terms of cost.

00:09:53Marc:And I can't wait.

00:09:54Marc:It was so exciting.

00:09:55Marc:So that happened on this trip as well.

00:09:58Marc:I fell in love with a guitar and married it.

00:10:01Marc:And I'm hoping, you know, that it's weird that we both had to be apart for a few days, but I hope when we finally come back together, we've made the right decision and the honeymoon is lovely.

00:10:13Marc:You will hear it.

00:10:14Marc:I will play it for you.

00:10:16Marc:So that was exciting.

00:10:18Marc:That was an exciting part of this trip.

00:10:20Marc:and now we were here in new haven last night great great show at the college street theater great food yesterday i'm gonna die but i'll die happy i guess uh i gotta get it together here i gotta drive down to huntington new york which should be exciting one more show and then i will grieve the loss of

00:10:40Marc:of this chunk of material, and it will exist as it did the night that I recorded this special in October in Los Angeles forever.

00:10:49Marc:New bits are evolving.

00:10:50Marc:There's about a half hour to 40 minutes of new material that's happening, and so I'm on my way.

00:10:55Marc:I guess I'm not going to quit doing comedy just yet.

00:10:57Marc:So I guess as we head into the interview here, I just want to thank the people of Cleveland, Grand Rapids, Milwaukee,

00:11:07Marc:Tampa, Orlando, Portland, Maine, Providence, New Haven, and most likely, I'll let you know on Thursday, Huntington, New York, for coming out to this winter leg of this show, of this tour, the last legs of it.

00:11:24Marc:It's really been a tremendous good time.

00:11:27Marc:I've had a good time, and I'm happy to report that Sam Sylvia for this season of GLOW will be the paunchy guy he was the first two seasons.

00:11:37Marc:as opposed to the emaciated man he was the third season all right so juliette lewis and i talked back at the new studio at the house and she as i said before is uh in the facebook watch mystery series sacred lies the singing bones season two is now streaming she'll also be singing on march 10th at the bon scott tribute with hopefully me if i'm not shooting and an all-star band for dean delray's uh

00:12:02Marc:Bon Scott tribute.

00:12:03Marc:You can go to DeanDelray.com for tickets to that.

00:12:06Marc:But this is me talking to the amazing Juliette Lewis, who I love, who everyone loves.

00:12:11Marc:Curious person, unique person, a one of a kind.

00:12:25Guest:you come from a big family so i always describe you would need a diagram oh really like that well it's simply put both my parents were married several times oh right so my mom married three my dad married four when you say this out loud it sounds insane but it's what i know um but i grew up with an older brother and i grew up with a younger sister and then i have half brothers and sisters

00:12:51Marc:So the more immediate ones you have a deeper relationship with, basically?

00:12:57Marc:Or you're pretty close to all of them?

00:12:59Guest:It's funny because in my older years, I'm extremely close with... The half ones?

00:13:05Guest:Different half ones.

00:13:08Marc:That must be kind of exciting.

00:13:10Marc:It's almost like finding you have this genetic sibling that you didn't know about.

00:13:14Marc:But not exactly like that, but to have this...

00:13:17Marc:maybe people who are really directly related to you, but you just never got that close, and all of a sudden.

00:13:21Guest:You never got that, and then you learn about each other, and you're like, wow, I really like you.

00:13:25Guest:Like one of my brothers, Beau, who lives in New Orleans, he's just one of my heroes.

00:13:33Guest:He was the one, I don't think he would mind me saying this, but he was the one, you know, 15 plus years ago, we always thought we'd get the call that wasn't gonna be here.

00:13:44Guest:And he turned his life around, I think,

00:13:47Guest:16 years ago now.

00:13:48Guest:He's sober.

00:13:49Guest:He helps people.

00:13:52Guest:So he's sober, sober.

00:13:54Marc:He's doing the thing.

00:13:56Guest:Doing the thing.

00:13:57Guest:Walking the walk.

00:13:58Guest:He's my hero because there's no type of person or personality he can't jive with or commune with.

00:14:09Marc:Because he's open.

00:14:10Marc:And he's been through it.

00:14:11Guest:He's been through it.

00:14:12Guest:And actually, he, of course, is more helpful, you know, the underdog.

00:14:17Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:14:18Guest:I might lose my words today because every time when I have to do an interview, because there's like a little stress to form sentences correctly.

00:14:26Guest:No, there's not.

00:14:27Guest:And then my mind will play a trick and go, I'm going to remove this adjective that you always use.

00:14:33Guest:Yeah.

00:14:33Marc:All right.

00:14:34Marc:But wait, you're sober, too, right?

00:14:36Guest:I can't, I knew we'd, I can't class, no, I'm not, I'm not AA sober.

00:14:40Guest:Right.

00:14:40Guest:No, I, but I'm, as far as not, I don't do drugs.

00:14:42Guest:Right.

00:14:42Guest:Like, in this way, or when I was a kid.

00:14:44Guest:I quit all street drugs when I was 22.

00:14:45Guest:So, and I didn't.

00:14:45Guest:Street drugs.

00:14:46Guest:What's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's

00:14:57Marc:I wonder what makes that list.

00:14:59Marc:Weed, you still smoke weed.

00:15:00Guest:Even weed, no, no.

00:15:02Guest:I don't, even though it's legal now, I can't.

00:15:04Guest:And I was a crazy weed head when I was a teenager.

00:15:08Guest:I wouldn't be, I can't do it.

00:15:09Marc:Yeah, so you just like drink occasionally is what you say.

00:15:12Marc:Yes.

00:15:13Marc:Right, but you don't find yourself in trouble with it.

00:15:16Guest:I find, no, no, not alcohol.

00:15:19Guest:That was the one thing I never, but no, my trouble spots are my own mind being to, what's the word, doom and gloom.

00:15:33Marc:Oh, me too.

00:15:34Guest:Dread.

00:15:34Marc:Dread.

00:15:35Guest:And as you're getting older, I have the days where we're all going to die, so what's the point?

00:15:42Marc:And you're like, well... I'm going to eat this or whatever the fuck you're rationalizing.

00:15:47Guest:Well, I'm saying even to invest in one's self, getting out of bed, that stuff.

00:15:56Guest:That's before you're... So I have to be really mindful of...

00:16:02Marc:Vigilant against anxiety and depression.

00:16:05Guest:Yes.

00:16:07Marc:Like I knew people who were, I dated a woman who was borderline personality.

00:16:13Marc:And that's one of these ones where it's completely caused.

00:16:17Marc:It's a caused thing.

00:16:19Marc:You know, it's like depression can be biological.

00:16:21Marc:Alcoholism can go for generations.

00:16:23Marc:But, you know, borderline is like that someone bailed.

00:16:28Marc:And left that person hanging.

00:16:31Guest:You know what I mean?

00:16:32Marc:Yeah.

00:16:32Guest:That's wild.

00:16:33Marc:It is wild.

00:16:35Guest:What I want to say, because it's, wow, we just dove off the fucking deep end.

00:16:39Marc:We don't have to.

00:16:40Guest:Oh, my God.

00:16:42Guest:Oh, my God.

00:16:43Guest:And we didn't even say, how's your day today?

00:16:45Guest:How was your day?

00:16:46Guest:Oh, it was rough.

00:16:47Guest:It was?

00:16:47Guest:Well, no, because, you know, some days you don't want to talk about yourself.

00:16:52Guest:Do anything?

00:16:52Marc:Today was one of those days.

00:16:54Marc:Yes.

00:16:55Guest:Or where you don't want to be... I don't want to be me.

00:16:58Guest:Can we take a vacation from it for a second?

00:17:00Marc:Or you don't want to do anything?

00:17:03Guest:Yeah.

00:17:04Guest:See, my problem is either I work, work, work, and I have to be invested and focused.

00:17:09Guest:That's why characters and being invested in that way and focus because I really can chew on something, you know, a dramatic story.

00:17:16Marc:Lose yourself a bit.

00:17:17Guest:Yes.

00:17:18Guest:When I'm not...

00:17:20Guest:I'm doing that.

00:17:21Guest:That's the navigation, the life.

00:17:23Guest:But no, today is fine.

00:17:25Marc:I always get very anxious about doing anything, whether it's talking to people that come over or having to show up for shit.

00:17:33Marc:And I used to think...

00:17:35Marc:A lot of my negativity and the dread is just it's just anxiety.

00:17:39Guest:Yeah.

00:17:40Marc:It's just fucking anxiety.

00:17:41Guest:Yeah.

00:17:42Marc:And that's the way my brain deals with it.

00:17:43Marc:Like there's no way to get out from under it.

00:17:45Marc:So I just sort of I just resign it to like it's going to be tough.

00:17:50Marc:It's going to be bad.

00:17:51Marc:It's going to be, you know, whatever.

00:17:52Guest:And isn't it the thing, because I've had a week I have to do promotion stuff, where there's a thing of what do you force yourself, or even, yeah, seeing a friend, what do you force yourself to do?

00:18:05Guest:Because you know in the end there is connectivity.

00:18:08Guest:It does get you out of yourself.

00:18:09Guest:And what do you go, no, I'm not, today's not the day.

00:18:13Guest:Work stuff, I don't have that luxury.

00:18:15Marc:I want to be a team player.

00:18:17Guest:Yeah, we force ourselves.

00:18:18Marc:But the promotion thing, you know how it goes.

00:18:20Marc:Because I've dealt with that too.

00:18:22Marc:And this is, it's hard to do it in this particular format.

00:18:26Marc:But you figure out a few things you say.

00:18:28Marc:Yeah.

00:18:28Marc:And you go do the thing.

00:18:29Marc:And they all seem happy.

00:18:31Marc:No one's like, I don't know.

00:18:32Guest:Oh, no, they're lovely.

00:18:33Guest:Oh, wait, can I just say, because we got off into the hemming and hawing.

00:18:36Guest:I've been wanting to meet you for a very long time.

00:18:39Marc:I feel that.

00:18:40Marc:I felt that that was true.

00:18:42Guest:Yes.

00:18:42Marc:That was a while ago, right?

00:18:44Guest:We were supposed to meet several times.

00:18:46Guest:I wanted to do your show.

00:18:47Guest:Yeah.

00:18:48Guest:Just didn't work out scheduling-wise.

00:18:50Guest:Right.

00:18:51Guest:But, oh, here's the big takeaway in our modern-day world and being older and experienced, is you realize even when you're doing all that showbiz shit and you got to sit down, you know, people don't know at home or in their cars or wherever you are.

00:19:06Marc:You don't get business.

00:19:07Guest:Where you're talking to someone every five minutes.

00:19:10Guest:A new face, new face.

00:19:11Guest:Hi, we're so-and-so from Texas.

00:19:13Guest:And they talk to you.

00:19:15Guest:When you realize everybody's doing a job that day, like you don't know what their kid is sick or their dad's in the hospital.

00:19:24Guest:You're not the only one.

00:19:25Guest:So once you realize you guys are kind of on the same side as human beings, that's a big shift from when you're a total egocentric child.

00:19:34Guest:Self-centered.

00:19:35Guest:Yes.

00:19:35Marc:That's like you just provided people with an empathy tool.

00:19:40Marc:Good.

00:19:40Marc:Right?

00:19:41Marc:Because that's what happens.

00:19:42Marc:Like a lot of times, especially when you're a public personality and you get like 10 emails about 10 different things of people wanting something from you.

00:19:51Marc:Because you've gotten 10, none of those people know you've gotten 10.

00:19:54Guest:Yes.

00:19:54Marc:But you just lump them all together into this one sort of like...

00:19:57Marc:Don't they know I want to have a life that I don't have all the time?

00:20:01Marc:And you can't separate it sometimes because it's all coming at you at once.

00:20:05Marc:But that's a good point.

00:20:06Marc:Even with fans, you know what I mean?

00:20:08Marc:They come up to you and you're like, I try to always be gracious because who the fuck knows?

00:20:12Marc:And my fans are very specific.

00:20:14Marc:If they're in trouble, if they're in trouble, they'll tell me.

00:20:17Guest:Oh, so you get people who are sharing.

00:20:20Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:20:20Guest:Well, because you share.

00:20:21Marc:Right, so much.

00:20:22Marc:And then I get emails sort of like, you got me through.

00:20:24Marc:I'm lucky to be here.

00:20:26Guest:It's nice.

00:20:26Guest:Yes.

00:20:27Marc:Why?

00:20:27Marc:What kind of fans do you have?

00:20:29Guest:I feel the same way.

00:20:31Guest:Like there are people.

00:20:32Guest:One time, you know, so I got to explain a couple things.

00:20:35Guest:Okay.

00:20:36Guest:There was, when I was 19, I lost my anonymity.

00:20:40Guest:And I now, I love these terms, and I don't want to offend people or war veterans who use this term PTSD.

00:20:48Guest:But there was a shift energetically when you're an introvert.

00:20:53Guest:So I was an introvert when I was younger.

00:20:54Guest:People don't associate me with this color of being sort of quiet.

00:21:01Guest:So I lost my anonymity.

00:21:03Guest:What do you mean, anonymity?

00:21:04Guest:Anonymity, meaning I was now, if I went into a coffee shop, the energy.

00:21:08Guest:Oh, so you became a public person.

00:21:10Guest:It became this.

00:21:10Guest:don't you look at that girl, do you see her?

00:21:13Marc:She's from Cape Fear?

00:21:14Guest:Yeah, Cape Fear is what really did it.

00:21:19Guest:So I had anxiety, I feared public places, how it manifested itself, I actually fear

00:21:27Guest:that violence, because it's energy I can't control, so I get these violent images.

00:21:33Guest:I mean, now our time fucking validates it back then.

00:21:38Guest:So I would get anxiety in public places.

00:21:41Marc:You thought someone was going to hurt you?

00:21:44Guest:Not me in particular.

00:21:45Guest:Oh, just in general?

00:21:46Guest:Just in general.

00:21:47Guest:I was scared.

00:21:48Guest:Shit was going to go down.

00:21:49Guest:Yeah, I was just scared of the energy I couldn't control.

00:21:52Guest:Yeah.

00:21:53Guest:So what I was trying to get at, as you said, fans.

00:21:56Guest:One day after I grew up a little bit, oh, I had this great therapeutic exercise that actually helped me, helped rid some of my panic attacks was a Rolling Stones concert.

00:22:11Marc:Oh, that's great.

00:22:12Yeah.

00:22:12Guest:It was an amazing exercise.

00:22:14Marc:What do you mean?

00:22:15Marc:How does this happen?

00:22:16Guest:Okay, so I went with my friend, coincidentally, Mike Rappaport.

00:22:21Guest:We go back early 90s.

00:22:24Guest:He's a talker.

00:22:25Guest:Yeah, there you go.

00:22:27Guest:So he was just an actor back when.

00:22:29Marc:He's doing stand-up again, you know.

00:22:31Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:22:31Guest:I saw his show.

00:22:32Marc:Where he just goes up and he basically does exact.

00:22:34Marc:He can be standing on a street corner talking to one guy or being on stage doing the exact same thing.

00:22:40Guest:It was crazy.

00:22:41Guest:I watched him, and you don't know, and you're coming out to support your friends, but he killed it.

00:22:46Guest:He did great.

00:22:47Marc:He's a character.

00:22:48Guest:He's a character, but he did great.

00:22:50Guest:He did have- Were it at the comedy store?

00:22:53Guest:Where was it?

00:22:53Guest:In Burbank.

00:22:54Marc:Was it Flappers?

00:22:55Marc:Oh, Flappers.

00:22:56Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:22:56Guest:He did great.

00:22:57Guest:He had set up bits, and they worked.

00:23:00Marc:He started as a comic, kind of.

00:23:02Guest:I did not know this.

00:23:03Guest:A little bit.

00:23:04Marc:I don't know this.

00:23:05Guest:I know him as a dramatic actor.

00:23:07Marc:Well, no, before he did Zebra Head or whatever the hell that first movie was.

00:23:10Guest:Yeah, that was the movie.

00:23:12Marc:Yeah.

00:23:12Marc:He was like his sister, his half-sister, Claudia, her father is the part owner of the improv.

00:23:18Marc:So he sort of started as doing stand-up to get sort of seen.

00:23:23Marc:I have no idea.

00:23:25Guest:Yeah.

00:23:25Guest:you're just hearing this for the first time I'm just hearing this but isn't it crazy that now in midlife sometimes you're old seeds you know you know you come into fruition these seeds that were planted earlier that's such a trip yeah now you can bring it up and now he's doing it yeah well he did it like I said before but then he I think he just did it to get into the acting yeah and then he got into the what movie did you do with him

00:23:46Guest:Well, we knew each other from an ex-boyfriend of mine who he worked with.

00:23:54Guest:And then me and Mike, so we knew each other then.

00:23:57Guest:And then we did this little tiny independent that my friend wrote that no one really saw called Some Girl.

00:24:03Marc:Okay, so you go to the Rolling Stones concert.

00:24:06Guest:We go to the Rolling Stones concert and then I love how the mind works because I'm going to benchmark it.

00:24:12Guest:We're going to come.

00:24:12Guest:You originally asked me, do you like your fans?

00:24:16Guest:We're getting there.

00:24:18Marc:This is the tool.

00:24:19Marc:This is the Rolling Stones tool for being outside safely in your mind.

00:24:24Guest:It was a therapeutic exercise.

00:24:26Guest:Mike asked me to go and he didn't know all the struggles in my head.

00:24:31Guest:I'm picturing it's Dodger Stadium.

00:24:33Marc:Oh, big one.

00:24:34Marc:When was this?

00:24:34Guest:98.

00:24:36Marc:Okay.

00:24:37Guest:It might have been Babylon.

00:24:39Marc:Yeah, that sounds right.

00:24:40Marc:The Wheels of Babylon.

00:24:41Guest:Yeah, something like that.

00:24:42Guest:I saw your whole thing.

00:24:43Guest:Was it The Wheels something?

00:24:44Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:24:45Guest:Oh, is that great?

00:24:46Guest:I differ on a couple things with you.

00:24:48Guest:Okay, so meaning I'll just accept artists.

00:24:51Guest:As long as they're not drunk and a mess, I will accept them at 100.

00:24:56Guest:I will accept them at, you know.

00:24:58Marc:Yeah.

00:24:58Marc:Well, I think I kind of do.

00:25:00Marc:I think that my discomfort around that kind of stuff is a projection.

00:25:04Guest:Absolutely.

00:25:05Marc:Because I know I'm getting older.

00:25:06Guest:Yeah.

00:25:06Marc:And there's part of me that's sort of like, why the fuck do they keep doing it?

00:25:09Marc:Because I don't want to do it anymore.

00:25:11Marc:yes you're like when do I get to stop I don't really want to stop but there's part of me that's sort of like it's so much pressure how much Instagram do I have to do yes do I have to tweet you're like someone point me the way oh no he doesn't do it well yeah exactly you want to be pointed the way but then you know but you know people and you see how much they post and you're like oh this is fucking horrible

00:25:29Guest:I knew this, that was my intro to social media was being in a little independent band.

00:25:36Guest:Right.

00:25:36Guest:Or a label or anything.

00:25:38Guest:I literally handed out flyers.

00:25:40Marc:Juliet and the Licks.

00:25:41Guest:Juliet and the Licks.

00:25:42Marc:But that was like probably, but that was MySpace probably.

00:25:46Guest:That was my space.

00:25:47Guest:Right.

00:25:48Guest:100%.

00:25:48Guest:And then Twitter just started.

00:25:50Marc:Right.

00:25:50Guest:Oh, my God.

00:25:51Guest:I couldn't get over it.

00:25:52Guest:I was like, what?

00:25:53Guest:People just say sentences into space for no reason to no one?

00:25:59Marc:And now it's driving the entire planet.

00:26:01Guest:Ugh, I hate it.

00:26:02Marc:It is the wild id of everything.

00:26:05Guest:Okay, go on.

00:26:06Marc:We're after Rolling Stones.

00:26:08Guest:I literally, so one of my favorite movies that helped me through my darkest times, which was when I was 22, I quit drugs.

00:26:16Guest:I had a couple things.

00:26:17Guest:It was a Bob Dylan song.

00:26:19Guest:Which one?

00:26:20Guest:She Belongs to Me.

00:26:21Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:26:22Guest:The lyrics and that.

00:26:23Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:26:23Guest:She's got everything she needs.

00:26:24Guest:She's an artist.

00:26:25Guest:She don't look back.

00:26:27Marc:She's a hypnotist collector.

00:26:28Marc:I am a walking antique.

00:26:29Marc:Is that what it is?

00:26:30Guest:Yeah, you remember the far out ones, because I fuck up the second line, so I'm not going to say it.

00:26:36Guest:I'm always sort of like, what does that mean?

00:26:38Marc:Yours, I can understand.

00:26:42Guest:The first two, they're like, that makes all the sense in the world.

00:26:45Guest:And then he goes off into metaphor as cool as shit.

00:26:49Guest:Okay, so what's happening?

00:26:52Guest:Oh, what about Bob?

00:26:53Guest:So what about Bob?

00:26:56Guest:Bill Murray.

00:26:57Marc:Richard Dreyfuss, Bill Murray.

00:26:59Guest:Yeah, he's a hypochondriac.

00:27:00Guest:So I get out of the car.

00:27:01Guest:I love, you're playing pinball with my mind right now.

00:27:04Guest:At the Stones concert.

00:27:05Guest:This is how it happens.

00:27:06Guest:So I get out of the car.

00:27:07Guest:Where What About Bob ties in is I go, baby steps out of the car.

00:27:11Guest:Yeah.

00:27:11Guest:Baby steps through the parking lot.

00:27:14Guest:Yeah.

00:27:14Guest:All right.

00:27:15Guest:No one's there's no shootout in the parking lot.

00:27:18Guest:And Mike was so cool.

00:27:19Guest:I don't know if he remembers it the way I do, but he sort of I explained my deep anxiety and he kind of held my hand through it like you doing OK, Jules.

00:27:28Guest:He calls me Jules.

00:27:28Guest:There's like three people in this world that calls me Jules.

00:27:31Guest:He's one of them.

00:27:32Guest:You doing okay?

00:27:33Guest:And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm good.

00:27:35Guest:All right.

00:27:35Guest:We're in the parking lot.

00:27:37Guest:Okay, we're getting there.

00:27:39Guest:And so we get to Dodger Stadium.

00:27:41Guest:I believe he had good tickets.

00:27:44Guest:Yeah.

00:27:45Guest:We're on the floor of Dodger Stadium.

00:27:49Guest:They haven't come on yet.

00:27:51Guest:He wants to go and get a soda.

00:27:54Guest:Yeah.

00:27:54Guest:And he's like, you going to be okay?

00:27:57Guest:Yeah.

00:27:57Guest:Um, well, I'll try because we got to hold our, it's like standing room.

00:28:02Guest:There's no, it's a, you're on the floor.

00:28:04Guest:There's no seats.

00:28:06Guest:So, um, so I go, yeah, yeah, I'm going to be okay.

00:28:10Guest:Just lie because I'm trembling.

00:28:12Guest:And so as an exercise, I made myself turn around and look at all.

00:28:18Guest:All the seats and all the people in Dodger Stadium.

00:28:23Guest:And it was, you know, like the sky is trepidation.

00:28:28Guest:But I looked around and I, you know, anxiety ridden, but I didn't exercise and looked at that much.

00:28:34Guest:Yeah.

00:28:34Guest:Rather than had blind blinders on and like just freaked out in your own head.

00:28:39Guest:Yeah.

00:28:40Guest:So I made myself look at that part and then he came back and then here's where the therapy happened.

00:28:46Guest:Once the fucking show is started.

00:28:48Guest:Yeah.

00:28:50Guest:Something came over me.

00:28:52Guest:And I had fan energy.

00:28:54Guest:I had, and me and Mike joke about it, where Mick and Keith, I'm like, we love you, Keith!

00:29:03Guest:And I'm like, he's looking at me, and I'm all my... I'm like a fan, a super fan.

00:29:09Guest:So it was weird, because this shift of understanding fanaticism and being that made me somehow understand...

00:29:17Marc:not like i'm keith but you get people have been excited to well no it's like it's like that's exactly what that's for though is to relieve the existential predicament of you like hero worship yeah and believing in or having gods among the living is a great way to displace almost all of your anxiety i think it's great so how does that help you when you go into the supermarket

00:29:41Guest:I don't know, but something, sorry if I could get too loud, something shifted.

00:29:46Guest:You know, you have these moments in your life where you have a little bit of, oh, okay.

00:29:51Guest:Clarity.

00:29:52Guest:New revelation.

00:29:53Guest:I was in my mid-20s at that point.

00:29:55Guest:Right.

00:29:56Guest:So that was helpful.

00:29:58Marc:I had one of those yesterday, actually.

00:30:00Marc:A minor one, revelation.

00:30:02Marc:Okay.

00:30:03Guest:That's cool.

00:30:04Marc:I was just walking out of my house, and I realized, like, I don't have to go anywhere to retire.

00:30:09Marc:Yeah.

00:30:10Marc:You know, there's always this part of my mind where it's sort of like, I'm gonna quit and I'm getting out.

00:30:15Guest:I'm gonna go get a cabin.

00:30:16Guest:I can't believe it.

00:30:18Guest:I always have thought this.

00:30:20Guest:Okay, go on.

00:30:23Guest:Get off the grid.

00:30:24Guest:My boyfriend thinks this way.

00:30:25Guest:I'm like, you don't want to live.

00:30:27Marc:Yeah, how long is that going to last?

00:30:28Marc:But there is that party that's sort of going to move to Ireland.

00:30:31Marc:Like, shit's going to go down if Trump's reelected.

00:30:33Marc:I'm going to get out, whatever.

00:30:35Marc:But then I just had this moment where I'm like, wait, this is nice here.

00:30:39Marc:I mean, my sense of retiring or slowing down is really about, like, I'm fucking anxious.

00:30:46Marc:I'm done with this shit.

00:30:48Marc:I don't like the expectations.

00:30:49Marc:You know, like, I don't like the chase.

00:30:51Guest:You put on yourself and the others.

00:30:53Guest:Right, okay.

00:30:54Marc:And that's a mental thing.

00:30:55Marc:I think it's just a take on that.

00:30:58Marc:No matter where you go there, you are kind of shit.

00:31:00Marc:You know what I mean?

00:31:00Marc:It's going to be the same until you change.

00:31:02Marc:It's an inside job, man.

00:31:04Guest:Well, here's the thing is, those things we know, it's important to realize them anew every single time like it's a new thought.

00:31:14Guest:You just keep realizing, be in the moment.

00:31:17Guest:That's it.

00:31:17Guest:Be in the moment.

00:31:18Marc:I'm here.

00:31:19Marc:I'm here.

00:31:20Marc:I'm here.

00:31:22Marc:Yeah, I mean, I feel that my entire career as a comic has something to do with facing fear.

00:31:28Marc:Yes.

00:31:28Marc:Now, what do you think when you go up on stage in whatever incarnation of you is the Juliet and the Licks, is that a character?

00:31:38Guest:No.

00:31:40Guest:I get asked this.

00:31:41Guest:Oh, and I face my fears when I do any kind of acting work because that mechanism like you're doing that.

00:31:47Guest:You're not good enough.

00:31:48Guest:All that shit tunes in.

00:31:50Guest:But no, the licks is I don't know what I'm going to do ever.

00:31:53Guest:Musically, I'm so I have to defeat being I have to repurpose.

00:31:59Guest:Right.

00:31:59Guest:But the Licks was my, what I liken as my, sort of like a high school band, but not in high school, but in when I was 30.

00:32:07Guest:Yeah, yeah, but it's good.

00:32:08Guest:But when people ask, to me it was like an exercising of all your emotionality.

00:32:17Guest:I always say I'm an emotionalist.

00:32:19Guest:So that was in rock and roll music.

00:32:22Guest:And for me, I was like a conduit of the instruments, like the drumming.

00:32:28Guest:I was tapped into drumming, bass, guitar, and then together we'd write songs.

00:32:34Guest:But they're very derivative rock music because that's what I was able to do at that time.

00:32:40Guest:Yeah.

00:32:40Guest:with my bandmates, but I was really proud of the shows, because the shows were all about connectivity, and I wanted them to lose their minds, basically, in the best sense.

00:32:55Marc:In the way that you did with Keith Richards.

00:32:57Marc:That's it.

00:32:58Marc:But you grew up in this business.

00:33:01Guest:Yeah.

00:33:01Marc:Basically.

00:33:02Marc:Because I know, like, your dad, Jeffrey... Jeffrey Lewis.

00:33:06Marc:Like, I remember him from when I was a kid.

00:33:08Guest:Yeah.

00:33:09Marc:Like, he was, like, in every movie.

00:33:10Marc:He's in a lot of movies, a lot of the Clint Eastwood movies.

00:33:12Marc:But he's got that face.

00:33:13Marc:He's a character actor guy.

00:33:14Guest:You're saying exactly what I grew up with.

00:33:18Guest:Yeah.

00:33:19Guest:Like, you always know his face.

00:33:21Guest:You may not know his name.

00:33:22Guest:Right.

00:33:23Guest:And he's a character actor.

00:33:24Marc:Comedy and serious movies.

00:33:25Guest:That's it.

00:33:26Marc:He can do everything.

00:33:27Guest:And I always, to me, that's, there's, I just follow so much of my dad's footsteps in that way that I'm honored to be, I want to play characters.

00:33:38Guest:I didn't get into this business to be myself or to be cool.

00:33:43Guest:But yeah, I do feel a little defensive when people are like, you grew up like a Hollywood kid because we did.

00:33:49Guest:No, but we didn't.

00:33:50Guest:We weren't very, I grew up with not a lot of money with my mom initially.

00:33:56Marc:What'd she do?

00:33:57Guest:Well, she was having children, so she was a mom full-time, but she was a graphic artist.

00:34:05Guest:She would do promotional stuff for companies, but graphic design, like pamphlet.

00:34:12Marc:But I always think of the 70s like, yeah, I don't think of it as in the same way that I think of

00:34:19Marc:I don't feel like it was privileged, but it seemed like a more kind of grittier, more exciting time in Hollywood.

00:34:26Marc:Like, I wasn't thinking of you as some sort of star child.

00:34:28Guest:Oh, like Beverly Hills.

00:34:29Guest:No, no.

00:34:30Guest:You know, I wasn't that.

00:34:31Marc:No, I wouldn't assume that your dad would be a Beverly Hills guy.

00:34:35Guest:No.

00:34:35Marc:I don't think Ned Beatty lived in Beverly Hills.

00:34:39Guest:He's of that ilk, Gene Hackman.

00:34:41Marc:Yeah.

00:34:41Marc:Well, Hackman's probably, like, Hackman sort of somehow transcended character acting.

00:34:46Guest:He did.

00:34:47Marc:But Ned Beatty didn't.

00:34:49Marc:Ned Beatty's another one of those guys who's in everything.

00:34:51Guest:So awesome.

00:34:52Guest:All those guys, yeah.

00:34:53Marc:But did you, were those guys around?

00:34:55Marc:Who were his friends?

00:34:56Guest:No, that's what I'm saying.

00:34:59Guest:He wasn't really friends.

00:35:03Guest:You know, my dad's funny.

00:35:04Marc:What about with Clint?

00:35:05Marc:He was in every Clint Eastwood movie.

00:35:07Guest:First, I should say, he's not here anymore.

00:35:09Guest:We're in the fourth year.

00:35:10Guest:Oh, sorry.

00:35:12Guest:Thank you.

00:35:16Guest:But when we were growing up,

00:35:18Guest:Yes, he would befriend stuntmen.

00:35:22Guest:It was funny, as he reached midlife, which is what I knew.

00:35:28Guest:He was kind of an older dad when I was a kid, maybe mid-40s or 50s.

00:35:34Guest:And he got into street fighting and taking Muay Thai.

00:35:41Guest:My dad was so funny because he was such a...

00:35:44Guest:contradictions.

00:35:46Guest:So he came up like he took dance in New York, right?

00:35:50Guest:He was a New York actor?

00:35:51Guest:Yeah, in New York, sort of renaissance.

00:35:54Guest:And then he got really in everything that was macho, like knife collecting, guns, later.

00:36:01Guest:Because how can you have taken modern jazz with Martha Graham and

00:36:06Guest:And then you're like, you know, then you wear, what's those gun shirts, Hetchler and Koch?

00:36:12Guest:I forgot what they were called.

00:36:13Guest:Hetchler?

00:36:14Marc:I mean, what do you make of that?

00:36:16Guest:I don't know.

00:36:18Guest:My dad's a funny, I think he likes archetypes and he was into, he was reaching into things that I don't know that he felt he totally was that.

00:36:28Guest:So he would emulate things a little bit.

00:36:31Marc:Right.

00:36:31Marc:So he started in that sort of New York scene in the late 60s and that kind of trip?

00:36:37Guest:Yeah, but he was, so where did they come from?

00:36:40Guest:We have a Lewis farm in Rhode Island.

00:36:44Marc:What does that mean?

00:36:44Guest:Dilapidated, meaning the Lewis's.

00:36:46Guest:The family owns one?

00:36:47Guest:Yeah, my aunt.

00:36:49Guest:My aunt Nancy lives up there.

00:36:52Guest:Uh-huh.

00:36:52Guest:And then he came with his parents to out in nowhere, Victorville.

00:36:59Guest:I shouldn't say that.

00:37:00Guest:The Victorvillians would think they're somewhere.

00:37:03Guest:It's just desert.

00:37:04Guest:It's here?

00:37:05Guest:And Wrightwood.

00:37:06Guest:It's in the mountains.

00:37:07Guest:Here?

00:37:07Guest:Yeah, in California.

00:37:08Guest:Oh, okay.

00:37:09Guest:So he grew up there and then went back to New York.

00:37:11Guest:My mom is from the East Coast.

00:37:14Guest:She went to Cooper Union.

00:37:16Guest:Cooper Union, sure.

00:37:17Guest:So they were like East Coasters for a bit.

00:37:20Guest:Yeah.

00:37:22Guest:But he started working late in life.

00:37:24Guest:In midlife, he got success as an actor, like with Clint Eastwood movies.

00:37:29Marc:Clint Eastwood took a real liking to him.

00:37:31Guest:Yeah.

00:37:31Marc:Well, he did that.

00:37:32Marc:He was also, I guess, in some of those earlier.

00:37:36Marc:He was in Warren Oates Dillinger.

00:37:38Guest:He was in Dillinger with High Plains Drifter.

00:37:43Guest:He has this famous line.

00:37:44Guest:He's such a baddie.

00:37:46Guest:He does, who are you?

00:37:50Guest:And he's like, that's his...

00:37:53Marc:Oh my gosh.

00:37:54Marc:So when did you start, did you spend any time on sets?

00:37:58Guest:Yes.

00:37:59Marc:Like what planted in you?

00:38:00Guest:Yes.

00:38:01Marc:You did.

00:38:01Guest:So my introduction to acting land was going, hanging out with my dad on sets and

00:38:13Guest:And there were a lot of cowboys.

00:38:16Guest:So we were on Bronco Billy.

00:38:17Guest:My first time being on camera is because Clint is like, sure, put your kid in the audience scene.

00:38:24Guest:And there's a shot of just me as being an extra in that movie.

00:38:31Guest:I was like seven.

00:38:32Guest:Right.

00:38:33Guest:But what I knew about this environment was it was really long hours.

00:38:39Guest:All the sets I'd been on were dusty.

00:38:42Guest:And there were really colorful, interesting people that gravitated from people with sordid backgrounds.

00:38:51Guest:We have no idea.

00:38:53Guest:Same with rock and roll.

00:38:54Guest:People who set up the stages.

00:38:57Guest:Sure, right.

00:38:58Guest:So I knew later in life, oh, okay, this is the line of work, quote unquote, you go into when you live in your imagination or you like storytelling or characters, which I dreamed a lot of as a kid.

00:39:11Guest:That occupied my headspace a lot.

00:39:13Marc:It's interesting.

00:39:14Marc:When did you...

00:39:15Marc:I hear this word storytelling so much now and I'm not sure I remember hearing it like before a few years ago.

00:39:21Marc:Yeah.

00:39:23Marc:You know, like, I mean, like, do you know, do you remember when you started using that word?

00:39:27Guest:Yeah.

00:39:31Guest:Okay, well, for me, you know, you hear phrases and you're like, oh, that describes it.

00:39:39Guest:Because I didn't know what it was.

00:39:41Marc:I just noticed it.

00:39:41Marc:I'm not judging you.

00:39:43Guest:A storyteller.

00:39:46Marc:I talk to actors.

00:39:47Marc:I talk to directors.

00:39:48Marc:I'm a storyteller.

00:39:49Marc:Right.

00:39:49Marc:Everyone's sort of like, it's really about telling the story.

00:39:51Marc:I'm like, did everyone always say this?

00:39:53Marc:Or is it a new thing?

00:39:54Marc:It's...

00:39:55Marc:It's kind of new, right?

00:39:57Guest:There's so much new shit, too, that you're like, yeah, this is a new thing.

00:40:01Guest:Triggered.

00:40:01Guest:I like this word.

00:40:02Guest:I'm like, all right, I'll take it.

00:40:03Marc:Authenticity.

00:40:04Guest:Authenticity.

00:40:05Marc:That's a new one.

00:40:07Guest:Storytelling.

00:40:08Guest:So for me, though, I didn't know what it was called as a kid.

00:40:12Guest:No, I know.

00:40:12Marc:You just might believe.

00:40:14Guest:I have to tell you, too, I had the 70s, 80s.

00:40:17Guest:What do they call it?

00:40:18Guest:There's another phrase, latchkey kid.

00:40:20Marc:Latchkey kid, yeah.

00:40:22Guest:Yeah, we were left alone a lot.

00:40:24Marc:Yeah.

00:40:24Guest:like you might border on a little neglect so uh my parents are awesome and they're artists but we didn't have a lot of structure are they out partying no no working my mom was still raised kids but was working working working she had six total my mom oh my god so like where are you in the lineup

00:40:49Guest:So of my mom and dad's brood, it goes my brother, me, my sister.

00:40:56Guest:Yeah.

00:40:56Guest:And then she married again and had two, oh no, one kid.

00:41:02Guest:Yeah.

00:41:02Guest:And that's Bo, my hero, who's my hero.

00:41:05Marc:The New Orleans guy.

00:41:06Guest:Yep.

00:41:07Guest:And then there's another two kids she had from her third and final husband.

00:41:14Yeah.

00:41:14Marc:And she's still around?

00:41:15Guest:Yes.

00:41:16Marc:That's nice.

00:41:16Marc:Are they still married?

00:41:18Guest:No.

00:41:19Guest:Oh.

00:41:19Guest:My mom has been single for an eternity.

00:41:21Guest:My mom... Okay, it's my dream to play aspects of my mom.

00:41:27Guest:She's funny.

00:41:28Marc:You haven't done that yet?

00:41:30Guest:I...

00:41:30Guest:I've looked like my mom in film.

00:41:34Guest:Coming up, actually, this Mark Ruffalo HBO show, I look so much like my mom.

00:41:39Guest:Anytime I curl my hair.

00:41:40Guest:She had curly red hair.

00:41:42Guest:She's super Irish.

00:41:43Marc:This is an upcoming show you're on?

00:41:45Guest:Upcoming show.

00:41:45Marc:That he produced or he's in?

00:41:47Guest:He stars in.

00:41:48Marc:What is it?

00:41:48Guest:It's called I Know This Much Is True from a Wally Lamb book.

00:41:54Guest:And it'll be a six part.

00:41:56Marc:You in all six?

00:41:57Guest:I'm in three.

00:41:59Marc:Great.

00:41:59Guest:Yeah.

00:42:00Marc:You keep working.

00:42:01Guest:It's a part.

00:42:02Guest:It's a funny part.

00:42:03Marc:And you can see your mom in there?

00:42:05Guest:I see.

00:42:06Guest:Not in the way I act in the show, but just visually, it's pretty hilarious.

00:42:11Marc:So when you start doing the work, a latchkey kid hanging out, but there's three before.

00:42:16Marc:When did they get divorced, though?

00:42:17Guest:When I was two.

00:42:20Guest:Really little.

00:42:20Guest:I've always known my parents to be split.

00:42:24Guest:We were with my mom for a bit, and then when they decide, okay, I have more kids, and now you're doing okay financially.

00:42:30Guest:Why don't you take the kids?

00:42:31Guest:It was like that.

00:42:32Guest:It was like economics.

00:42:33Marc:So you always lived with one or the other?

00:42:35Guest:Yes.

00:42:35Marc:You never ran away?

00:42:36Guest:Oh, yeah, of course.

00:42:38Guest:What are you kidding?

00:42:39Guest:Well, and I left home at 14.

00:42:41Guest:You could call that running away.

00:42:42Guest:I set out to live...

00:42:47Guest:in the world, was I 14, 15?

00:42:50Guest:It's really, yeah.

00:42:51Guest:Who took you in?

00:42:52Guest:Okay, so my family friend, her name is Karen Black.

00:42:59Marc:The actress?

00:43:00Guest:Yes.

00:43:01Marc:Okay.

00:43:01Guest:And she, I lived- Whose friend was it?

00:43:04Marc:Your dad's or your mom's?

00:43:05Guest:Both.

00:43:05Guest:She was both my mom and dad's friend.

00:43:08Guest:I would go to her house when I was a kid.

00:43:10Guest:I knew her since I was a little wee baby.

00:43:12Guest:Here's the great irony is that working, and this is funny, as I look back, I'm like, oh, that's hilarious.

00:43:21Guest:Working in TV and film kept me out of trouble initially until I imploded.

00:43:31Guest:Fame was troubling as a teenager.

00:43:35Guest:Yeah.

00:43:35Guest:But initially, I was a teenager ditching school, failing, hanging out with criminals.

00:43:45Guest:Really?

00:43:45Guest:Yeah.

00:43:47Guest:That was the thing, is when we talk about the mind, different people, different spirits.

00:43:51Guest:You come into this world just having a different... For me, it was...

00:43:56Guest:how much trouble can I get in and survive?

00:44:00Guest:And that's not, you know, people would probably think something of this sort of me, but I don't know.

00:44:07Marc:That's odd because I had a similar mindset in that, like, you know, how will I know if I'm losing my mind?

00:44:13Mm-hmm.

00:44:13Marc:I was a little nervous about too much trouble, but when it came to drugs or other kinds of stuff, I had this sort of line.

00:44:20Marc:You're pushing it.

00:44:22Marc:Yeah, like, will I know?

00:44:24Marc:If I lose my mind, I'm going to stop.

00:44:26Marc:You're going to know.

00:44:26Guest:Do you know I've pondered on this because I thought I lost my mind once, and I did say to myself, oh, how you know you've lost my mind is you don't know.

00:44:36Marc:Right.

00:44:37Marc:Yeah.

00:44:38Guest:I don't know.

00:44:38Marc:When was that?

00:44:39Guest:That was when you were losing it.

00:44:41Marc:So you're running around.

00:44:42Marc:Did you finish high school or did you?

00:44:44Guest:I got my GED and got a tutor.

00:44:47Guest:So I technically but I did not finish.

00:44:49Marc:But you're acting starting when you're what?

00:44:51Marc:Twelve or what?

00:44:52Guest:Yeah, 12 and a half, 13, 14.

00:44:54Marc:When did you do Cape Fear at 15?

00:44:57Guest:That I was playing younger, but I turned 18 during the movie.

00:45:02Marc:Oh, so you did, right, you did Vacation, the second Vacation?

00:45:06Guest:At 15.

00:45:06Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:45:07Guest:Right.

00:45:07Guest:That was great.

00:45:08Marc:And then you did, yeah, that's a funny movie.

00:45:11Guest:I'm having all these moments, Mark, I have to say.

00:45:14Guest:Yeah.

00:45:14Guest:These midlife moments where you get to give...

00:45:17Guest:I don't know, appreciation to the people that took a chance on me or the reason I got from A to B. And so one of them is we had this little, what do you call it, anniversary with Christmas Vacation.

00:45:34Marc:You did?

00:45:34Guest:With Chevy Chase.

00:45:35Marc:Oh, that's right.

00:45:35Marc:I remember seeing pictures of that.

00:45:37Guest:And Beverly D'Angelo and Johnny Galecki who went on to do his show.

00:45:42Guest:Yeah.

00:45:44Guest:It was really sweet and Chevy was in good form and it was just sweet because that movie plays every year.

00:45:51Marc:For Christmas.

00:45:52Guest:What are the chances?

00:45:53Marc:Yeah.

00:45:54Marc:And you get those little checks.

00:45:55Guest:I get those little checks.

00:45:57Marc:Yeah.

00:45:58Guest:Yeah, and they started putting some faces on merchandise.

00:46:02Guest:Oh, really?

00:46:03Guest:Let's see what's happening over there.

00:46:05Marc:Really, it's still happening, huh?

00:46:08Guest:Yeah, they do Christmas vacation stuff.

00:46:13Marc:It's a holiday movie.

00:46:14Guest:It's a holiday movie.

00:46:15Marc:That's amazing.

00:46:16Marc:You made the cut.

00:46:17Guest:I don't know.

00:46:18Guest:I don't know.

00:46:18Guest:I just showed up.

00:46:20Marc:There's only a few movies that end up making, like Elf is another one, a fairly modern movie that gets a lot of play over Christmas.

00:46:28Marc:So wait, Karen Black is a family friend and also one of the most inspired, unique actresses ever.

00:46:36Marc:And you live with her?

00:46:37Guest:And she was an influence.

00:46:39Guest:I mean, again, when you- It's a wild influence.

00:46:41Marc:I could see that.

00:46:42Marc:How did she influence you?

00:46:43Guest:She-

00:46:43Marc:Were you taking acting classes?

00:46:45Marc:Were you doing anything?

00:46:46Guest:No.

00:46:46Guest:So part of my development is stuff like playing charades at Karen Black's house when I was little, little, and her going, okay, now you're a such and such.

00:46:59Guest:She would just call out something to play.

00:47:02Guest:Right.

00:47:02Guest:And she...

00:47:03Guest:validated me early on.

00:47:05Guest:She was really just a beautiful person.

00:47:09Guest:Is she still around?

00:47:09Guest:She's not around.

00:47:11Guest:She left for, went, I hate the word, died, before my dad, so hers would be five years ago.

00:47:21Guest:But she really validated, you know, there's these key people who encourage you, you have a voice.

00:47:27Marc:I would have loved to have seen you guys work together.

00:47:29Guest:She wanted that very much.

00:47:31Guest:It never happened.

00:47:32Guest:I know.

00:47:33Guest:We wanted to play mother and daughter.

00:47:35Guest:Yeah.

00:47:36Guest:But she's very much, I always call her sort of a creative mother of sorts.

00:47:43Guest:And then you see her work.

00:47:44Guest:It's like, oh, okay.

00:47:45Guest:We're...

00:47:45Marc:You can see the, what, similar influence?

00:47:47Guest:I don't know, just when there's someone, not so much, just when someone's so individual, there's so much themselves, so that's all I ever strive to be is unfiltered, you know, just being...

00:48:00Marc:Right.

00:48:01Marc:So that's sort of counter like intuitive to character acting, though.

00:48:04Marc:You know what I mean?

00:48:05Marc:Like she could do all these things, but she could never.

00:48:09Marc:She didn't.

00:48:10Marc:She may get lost in a role, but you always knew it was her.

00:48:12Marc:It's interesting.

00:48:13Marc:I always know this is about actors is that some actors are always kind of themselves, but they just turn some knobs.

00:48:19Guest:Yes.

00:48:20Marc:But they like Clooney's great.

00:48:22Marc:Right.

00:48:23Guest:Yeah.

00:48:23Marc:Great actor.

00:48:23Marc:But he's always Clooney.

00:48:25Guest:Yeah.

00:48:25Marc:But he can make adjustments to where you believe anything he's doing.

00:48:28Guest:Yeah.

00:48:28Marc:He's good.

00:48:29Marc:So he's a movie star.

00:48:30Marc:Yeah.

00:48:30Marc:But then there are people that they're actors that you generally know the source of who they are.

00:48:36Marc:They don't lose that.

00:48:38Guest:Yeah.

00:48:38Marc:But they just make adjustments and they can do whatever they want to do.

00:48:41Marc:But they're not, you know, it's not like they're not doing weird voices and shit.

00:48:47Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:48:48Guest:There's like people that are mostly themselves and bringing what that is.

00:48:55Guest:Or there's like a Benicio del Toro.

00:48:57Guest:I remember when he was first in Usual.

00:48:59Guest:He's just coming up to me because he was in Usual Sussex and he made this choice of like mumbling every line of silence.

00:49:07Guest:He mumbled like, what the fuck choice is this?

00:49:10Marc:He's continued making that choice.

00:49:12Marc:It's a choice he stuck with.

00:49:16Guest:All right.

00:49:16Guest:Maybe he's not the example.

00:49:18Guest:See, that's my.

00:49:19Marc:You worked with him, though, on some movie.

00:49:21Guest:I did.

00:49:22Marc:When you were younger.

00:49:22Guest:My torture is I want to disappear and become somebody else.

00:49:28Guest:But yes, you're always going to be.

00:49:30Marc:You want to be present.

00:49:31Marc:I think it's a present thing.

00:49:33Marc:Oh, yeah, totally.

00:49:34Guest:I want to make it look like you do not see any acting, like it's breathing.

00:49:39Guest:That's right, that's right.

00:49:41Marc:You're losing yourself, but you're not.

00:49:43Marc:It's mostly to be in the moment.

00:49:45Marc:To lose that self-consciousness that you were talking about.

00:49:48Marc:You know, to where you're freaked out about this or that, you know, violence or for me, it's people judging you.

00:49:54Marc:You know, it's a unique person that can get on a set and not acknowledge, you know, in the sense and do the work in front of, you know, 50 to 100 people surrounding them in different jobs.

00:50:05Marc:And to sort of be present and be in that scene.

00:50:08Marc:Yeah.

00:50:09Marc:Right.

00:50:09Marc:To get past this stuff.

00:50:11Guest:Yes.

00:50:12Marc:I mean, that's the real gift.

00:50:13Marc:I mean, you know, you lose yourself, but it's just you're not your brain's not spinning your regular shit.

00:50:19Marc:So that's how you lose yourself because you're engaged.

00:50:21Guest:Engaged in the moment.

00:50:23Guest:And I like to say, and transcend.

00:50:26Guest:So, you know, when you get really lucky, you hit a kind of transcendence.

00:50:30Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:50:31Guest:Where all the machinery, you really enter into the make-believe.

00:50:37Guest:You're creating a different reality.

00:50:39Guest:Right.

00:50:40Guest:I don't know.

00:50:40Marc:And you feel it like when you come out of the scene where it cut.

00:50:43Guest:Yeah.

00:50:44Guest:What?

00:50:45Yeah.

00:50:45Marc:Right?

00:50:47Marc:Yes.

00:50:48Marc:I'm just starting to understand that about acting.

00:50:50Marc:I was kind of like a little bit stupid about it.

00:50:53Marc:I didn't like all the waiting around.

00:50:55Marc:But if you lock into what you're doing and you have enough of a part to really do something, that's what the payoff is.

00:51:02Marc:You know what I mean?

00:51:03Marc:You do your shit and then it's like, all right, it's going to take an hour and a half before we're set up for the next one.

00:51:07Marc:It's like,

00:51:08Marc:Okay, fine.

00:51:09Marc:That one was good.

00:51:11Marc:Let's do the next one.

00:51:12Guest:How do you do, and, well, this is what's funny about, because every job I do, I'm like, oh, yeah, it's, you have muscle memory, but nothing is easier.

00:51:22Guest:There's no, I was like, wow, I thought this would, I'll never coast, because I never want,

00:51:28Guest:automaticities so I don't and if I find it you know because sometimes when you come up to you have things that you people then if they imitate it or you're like oh I don't want those to become tricks right but you can see things you know when I cry I'm look like how I cry I don't know

00:51:48Guest:When I say I want to lose myself, meaning I would love if my voice changed, if I didn't look like myself and this and that.

00:51:55Guest:But more importantly than all that, that's another version of ego.

00:51:59Guest:You want to prove you can transform.

00:52:04Guest:But really, I just want to tell the story.

00:52:08Guest:I want to be as honest and rich and multilayered.

00:52:13Guest:I really love contradictions in people and humanity.

00:52:17Marc:And that you can pull that like that.

00:52:19Marc:That's your engagement with a script, though.

00:52:20Marc:You know, the script will dictate.

00:52:22Guest:Yes.

00:52:22Marc:Some of that.

00:52:24Marc:And also, like, you're one of those people that is uniquely yourself.

00:52:28Marc:There's nothing you can do.

00:52:30Marc:Yeah.

00:52:31Marc:You know what I mean?

00:52:34Marc:Like you're one of those identifiable people like, oh, that's that.

00:52:37Marc:That's Julia.

00:52:38Marc:You know, like there's no way, you know, which is a good thing that because you're you're you have a rawness in your emotional accessibility that you have with yourself and your ability, your willingness to to be open is what engages that that weird, authentic thing that you have.

00:52:57Guest:That's neat.

00:52:58Marc:Don't you think so?

00:52:58Guest:Well, yeah, I don't.

00:53:01Marc:That's neat.

00:53:02Guest:I like this.

00:53:03Guest:I'm like, how will he describe what I do?

00:53:07Guest:That sounds pretty good.

00:53:08Guest:No, I know what I feel and what I struggle or what I transcend internally.

00:53:15Guest:But yes, it's funny externally when early on when a few people started imitating or making fun of me.

00:53:23Guest:I was like, oh, shit.

00:53:24Guest:Yeah, yeah, I got some SNL invitations.

00:53:27Guest:And the good thing is I never was too... Oh, yeah, who did that?

00:53:31Marc:Was that where they did the retainer thing?

00:53:32Guest:I think it was Janine Garoppolo.

00:53:34Guest:But they did a lot of mannered stuff.

00:53:37Guest:And you got to understand, at the time, before I did KVR, I did...

00:53:40Guest:frickin' 80s sitcoms where they didn't want any naturalism.

00:53:46Guest:It was like, don't move your hands, stand up straight.

00:53:48Guest:So you were getting those parts.

00:53:50Guest:I was right before.

00:53:51Marc:The little girl thing.

00:53:52Guest:Yes.

00:53:53Guest:Yeah.

00:53:54Guest:And it was super weird.

00:53:55Guest:They were trying to conform me early.

00:54:00Guest:It's a hilarious story I tell.

00:54:02Guest:Before I got K-Fear, they hired an acting coach for me to get me to stop

00:54:09Guest:acting natural.

00:54:11Guest:Oh, really?

00:54:12Guest:Basically.

00:54:12Guest:Yeah, yeah, just dance.

00:54:13Guest:Oh, because you were fidgeting?

00:54:14Guest:It was a sitcom.

00:54:14Guest:You were doing your thing?

00:54:15Guest:Well, and I was like leaning against the sofa and behaving like a freaking teenager.

00:54:21Marc:Right, right.

00:54:22Guest:Knowingly.

00:54:23Guest:Yeah.

00:54:23Guest:And they wanted these...

00:54:25Guest:Gee, Dad, you don't know!

00:54:27Marc:You know, this... Yeah.

00:54:30Guest:So that was the great... That was hilarious.

00:54:32Marc:That is funny.

00:54:33Guest:So everything they were trying to... I almost gave it up at 16, and then I got the audition, and then I always say that everything they were... Marty validated what I needed to carry on.

00:54:45Guest:Scorsese.

00:54:46Guest:Yes.

00:54:47Marc:Yeah.

00:54:47Marc:Oh, right.

00:54:48Guest:He was special.

00:54:49Guest:He was going, yes, you know, and he knew to, like...

00:54:53Guest:let me go he just sort of gave me the the room the space and the material and all those he's just a genius because he knows what each actor needs like I didn't know I didn't again I'm not I wasn't academically trained either so so it's all instincts right

00:55:13Guest:And he helped cultivate my instincts, basically.

00:55:17Marc:So that was like a whole graduate level.

00:55:19Guest:100%.

00:55:20Guest:I always say my directors were my teachers.

00:55:23Marc:And so that's when everything... Now, your folks were okay with you acting, obviously, right?

00:55:30Yeah.

00:55:30Guest:Yeah.

00:55:32Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:55:33Guest:Again, when I jokingly, which I love, we have great humor in my family and with my mom.

00:55:41Guest:When I said they're neglectful, I mean, yeah, they're busy folks.

00:55:44Guest:I had the opposite of what you hear, like, you're going to do this.

00:55:48Guest:Right.

00:55:51Marc:Right, right, right.

00:55:51Guest:So the point is, they sort of, anything their kids...

00:55:55Guest:My dad was a great facilitator, like, oh, you're interested in, like, my brother, he gave a camera, too, because my brother was watching TV, and he loved videos, so he gave him a camera.

00:56:07Guest:Yeah, and I took, like, dance and singing and all this little stuff as a kid.

00:56:11Marc:So after Cape Fear, though, that was a huge movie.

00:56:13Marc:You work with De Niro and you work with Nick Nolte and who was the mom?

00:56:19Marc:Jessica Lange.

00:56:21Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:56:22Marc:Yeah.

00:56:22Marc:It's a wild movie.

00:56:23Marc:Movie of greats.

00:56:24Marc:Yeah.

00:56:24Marc:And that was exciting for you?

00:56:26Marc:Were you able to keep your shit together or?

00:56:28Guest:Yeah, what's funny, I had another full circle moment when I got to have a dinner with De Niro and Scorsese, Harvey Cattell, who played my dad.

00:56:40Guest:When was this?

00:56:41Guest:Recently at the AARP, I gave Marty an award, and had a just beautiful, I've had a few, like a tribute to De Niro some years ago, I got to speak.

00:56:55Guest:Oh yeah?

00:56:55Guest:But my point is, at that time, it all worked for me.

00:57:00Guest:I never... I didn't really... I didn't know what they meant to American cinema.

00:57:04Guest:So my naivete worked great because I didn't know to be shitting my pants on this job.

00:57:12Guest:All I wanted... I just wanted to do a really...

00:57:14Guest:All I knew is that this was the time.

00:57:17Guest:You better do something.

00:57:21Guest:You better really be powerful.

00:57:24Guest:For me, that's by being as honest and rich as possible in playing the young girl.

00:57:31Guest:But Marty, what's so great is he wanted a fully dimensional, not these vapid,

00:57:39Guest:um things we'd seen on screen he wanted this the family and he actually because it was a remake from the 50s he wanted the family to have all this subversion and and complexity moral complexity exactly right the daughters the gregory peck character was not like that exactly yeah so he made that clear to all of us and so every scene had a thing of you know where the family distrust sexual attention yeah yeah or or moral dubiousness

00:58:09Marc:masculinity issues.

00:58:11Guest:Yeah, all of that.

00:58:12Marc:Yeah, it was great.

00:58:13Marc:Yeah, he really kind of expanded the whole subtext of the movie.

00:58:20Guest:Yes.

00:58:20Guest:Yeah.

00:58:21Guest:So it makes it scarier.

00:58:23Marc:It's funny because I did a scene, one scene with De Niro, you know, in the Joker.

00:58:27Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:58:28Guest:Oh, my God.

00:58:29Guest:You were in the job.

00:58:30Guest:Yes.

00:58:30Marc:For a second.

00:58:31Marc:Right.

00:58:32Marc:But I was very excited about it.

00:58:34Marc:And I was able to respect what was happening, enjoy what was happening.

00:58:37Marc:And even with Joaquin, who was not communicative because he was immersed.

00:58:41Guest:Yeah.

00:58:42Marc:You know, I was like, all right.

00:58:43Marc:I'm not going to judge him for that.

00:58:44Marc:He's doing what he's doing.

00:58:45Guest:No, I worked with a friend like that.

00:58:46Guest:I was like, we are completely different, but you know what?

00:58:49Guest:That's what it takes to get you to go there.

00:58:51Guest:And for me, I got to step out of it when we say cut.

00:58:55Guest:I can't sit in this.

00:58:57Marc:Right.

00:58:57Marc:So we're not going to be talking at the craft services table.

00:59:00Guest:That's it.

00:59:00Marc:You can go over there and brood and talk to yourself.

00:59:04Guest:That was Giovanni Ribisi.

00:59:08Guest:I don't think he'll mind me.

00:59:09Guest:I mean, that's how he worked.

00:59:10Marc:I've interviewed him.

00:59:10Guest:At that time, you did?

00:59:12Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:59:12Marc:A while back, a while back.

00:59:13Guest:He's intense, but he had to stay in it.

00:59:15Marc:Great actor.

00:59:16Guest:Great actor.

00:59:17Guest:That's what I'm saying.

00:59:17Guest:If you weren't good, then I would judge you harder.

00:59:22Marc:He's kind of done some sort of amazing work.

00:59:24Guest:Yes.

00:59:26Marc:In the past.

00:59:27Marc:In movies, I don't think people really know.

00:59:29Guest:Yeah.

00:59:29Marc:Yeah.

00:59:30Marc:Like, you know, I've seen him as he got older, but like that, that shit he did in that, in that movie with, um, what was it called?

00:59:37Marc:The gift.

00:59:38Guest:Yes.

00:59:39Guest:Yes, man.

00:59:40Marc:The blue diamond shit.

00:59:41Guest:He's so funny.

00:59:42Guest:Cause he won't let you compliment him.

00:59:45Guest:He's one of the, he can't, but now I think he's old enough.

00:59:49Guest:I'm like, shut up.

00:59:50Guest:You're a Titan.

00:59:51Guest:This was my new, the lingo that came out of me.

00:59:54Guest:Are you guys friends?

00:59:55Guest:Yes.

00:59:56Guest:I'm best friends with his sister.

01:00:00Guest:But he did a movie.

01:00:02Guest:We just did this little independent movie recently called from the James Fry book about addiction.

01:00:08Marc:The one that turned out to be bullshit.

01:00:10Guest:The book.

01:00:11Guest:Yes.

01:00:12Guest:I wouldn't go.

01:00:12Guest:No, no.

01:00:13Guest:I talk.

01:00:13Guest:Maybe it was just one bit.

01:00:16Marc:Whatever it was.

01:00:17Guest:I have a problem with that, too.

01:00:18Guest:It's like unless it's I don't know.

01:00:20Guest:We could.

01:00:21Guest:That's if you're a writer.

01:00:22Guest:I mean, can't we when we sit and talk, sometimes we exaggerate.

01:00:26Guest:Oh, no, no, no.

01:00:26Guest:What was the problem?

01:00:27Guest:I don't know what he did.

01:00:28Marc:No, at the time.

01:00:29Guest:He lied, saying, I got arrested and you didn't get arrested.

01:00:31Marc:Yeah, he manufactured a lot of the story.

01:00:33Marc:And he's a good writer.

01:00:34Marc:That was always the thing with him, was sort of like, why didn't you just say it's a fiction?

01:00:38Guest:Just say, this is my friends.

01:00:40Marc:Yeah, that is true.

01:00:41Marc:He took a hit for it.

01:00:42Marc:And he's one of the first ones to really get nailed like that.

01:00:44Marc:That's it.

01:00:46Marc:And it hit him pretty hard.

01:00:47Marc:But it was clear that he was a good writer.

01:00:50Marc:But they're making a movie of him?

01:00:51Guest:They made it, and it's really hard to do small films.

01:00:57Guest:It had a little release at Arclight here.

01:01:00Guest:I mean, all over, limited release.

01:01:03Guest:It starred at Aaron Taylor Johnson and directed by Sam Taylor Johnson, who's an incredible filmmaker.

01:01:11Guest:They're married.

01:01:13Guest:It's beautiful.

01:01:14Guest:It's very poetic.

01:01:15Guest:But anyway, Giovanni was in that and is transcendent.

01:01:20Guest:Do I say transcendental?

01:01:21Guest:Transcendent.

01:01:21Guest:No, transcendent.

01:01:22Marc:It's good.

01:01:22Guest:He's phenomenal in it.

01:01:23Marc:And his sister acted, but does she do it anymore?

01:01:26Marc:Or is there another one?

01:01:27Marc:Or is there two?

01:01:27Guest:No, it was Marissa Ribisi.

01:01:29Guest:She totally was an actor for a while.

01:01:31Guest:And it's not really her thing.

01:01:33Guest:She wrote.

01:01:34Guest:She was the friend.

01:01:35Guest:I love this comes full circle.

01:01:37Guest:That I did Some Girl.

01:01:39Guest:She wrote that with my other good best friend, Bree Schaefer.

01:01:43Guest:They wrote this really cool L.A.

01:01:46Guest:story script called Some Girl that Mike Rappaport was in.

01:01:49Guest:But she's a mom of two, and she did some designing, clothes designing.

01:01:54Guest:She's just one of these creative moms.

01:01:56Guest:But she's not really an actor person.

01:01:58Marc:Yeah, because I talked to him a while ago.

01:01:59Marc:I think it was a good interview, but it got tense because I asked him about the church.

01:02:03Guest:Yeah.

01:02:04Marc:And it gets a little weird sometimes.

01:02:06Guest:I thought that would come up and I have all... Oh, so you've known them through that.

01:02:10Marc:For you and I. Yeah, you've known them through that?

01:02:12Guest:Vonnie?

01:02:14Guest:No.

01:02:15Marc:Oh.

01:02:16Guest:There's a whole bunch of friends that I have from Los Angeles, but not specifically through Scientology.

01:02:23Marc:But you grew up in it?

01:02:24Guest:Let's see how I would define this.

01:02:28Guest:Again, because my parents weren't, they're very like, I would call it free thinkers.

01:02:35Guest:But the problem with the discussion of Scientology is there's so much, I don't know if you'd call it folklore, that might be true for other people and their experience.

01:02:47Guest:That's the whole thing.

01:02:49Guest:the point is to grow up in something nothing was ever forced on me not right schooling not my profession not religion so i didn't grow up in a household like this is what we believe right this guy is a deity and i did grow up with there's concepts in scientology like we had things like um it it's really basic stuff like

01:03:14Guest:communicating or valuing what a little kid, their point of view.

01:03:23Guest:These are things not written, but that you should listen to people.

01:03:29Guest:But as far, there's a metaphor I wanted to use of like, because all this stuff, it's so bad about Scientology.

01:03:37Guest:And

01:03:37Marc:With the stuff that you... Oh, with the TV show, all the stuff that... But there is reality to that.

01:03:43Marc:It wasn't your reality.

01:03:45Guest:It's not my reality.

01:03:46Guest:So it's like, I always make the analogy... And first of all, I'm a spiritualist.

01:03:52Guest:If you want to define me, I don't like when...

01:03:55Guest:me as Juliet is defined by something else or an association with.

01:04:02Marc:Right, right, right, right.

01:04:03Guest:As far as like my philosophical beliefs.

01:04:06Marc:Yeah.

01:04:07Guest:I have everything from the tethered soul.

01:04:10Guest:Is that the latest?

01:04:11Guest:Yeah.

01:04:11Guest:That's the latest book.

01:04:12Guest:Untethered soul.

01:04:13Guest:Untethered soul.

01:04:14Guest:Not tethered.

01:04:15Guest:Right.

01:04:16Guest:And then I just got this other book called Welcoming the Unwelcome.

01:04:22Yeah.

01:04:22Guest:Which is all I'm trying to fucking figure out.

01:04:26Guest:You know, I have three friends who have stage four cancer.

01:04:30Guest:I have a friend who fell on his bike, is in the hospital.

01:04:33Guest:So all these things are hard to navigate.

01:04:36Guest:But back to the Scientology discussion.

01:04:38Guest:So here's the analogy.

01:04:41Guest:If someone came out and did a show on veganism, and how veganism, it made me sick,

01:04:50Guest:My organs, this happened and this happened and you have another person who's like, well, my experience is totally different.

01:04:59Guest:I'm in no place to ever invalidate someone else's experience, but I don't want my experience to be invalidated too.

01:05:10Marc:Or associated with it.

01:05:11Guest:Associated.

01:05:12Guest:That's the other thing is some of these people who have all the negative slant, they'll take anybody's name who's been associated with Scientology and say that you're condoning these horrible things that they have.

01:05:26Guest:I'm not any.

01:05:28Marc:Well, the weird thing was to me, and I'm no historian about it, so I really can't do the sort of in-depth or pressing interview about it.

01:05:38Marc:But, you know, like any sort of modern belief system or something that seems or starts out as a cult is that there was a time where the ideas were out there and free to take and utilize how anyone might want to.

01:05:52Marc:There were people who entered Scientology in the 70s as a self-help sort of option, took what they needed from it and moved on.

01:06:01Marc:There are very smart people that, you know, read some of the stuff of Hubbard's

01:06:06Marc:process and validated it and used it in their life, but didn't get locked into the church.

01:06:13Guest:Yeah.

01:06:14Marc:And then there's levels within the church, it seems, of, you know, adepts, new people, the way the church has evolved over time, the depth of the teachings, you know, what it requires of you financially that like any other sort of racket, you know, causes trouble, causes problems.

01:06:31Yeah.

01:06:31Guest:And the people who are explaining that are people that are disgruntled and upset.

01:06:36Marc:Or in some cases, they felt abused and violated.

01:06:40Guest:Yes.

01:06:41Guest:And that's where I'm like, if you ever think or have experienced abuse, do all the appropriate channels to nail anybody to the wall.

01:06:50Marc:What was your experience?

01:06:51Guest:with it do you still me mine is sort of come and go as you please I've done read books I've done some courses right I've done the auditing which is there the equivalent of you know sit and talking and delving into your mind yeah and I had things are really helpful for me yeah early on but that's so I don't have the thing of that I'm owned or tied in well there's something right or even the I don't have

01:07:20Marc:this thing of um i'm an opinionated questioning sure and also you went through some serious shit some serious turmoil and trouble and crisis in your life and you know it didn't seem to you know offer whatever support was necessary oh no i did get help at this time when i was 22 oh you did from the church

01:07:42Guest:I don't even like this term, but sure.

01:07:46Marc:From the organization.

01:07:47Guest:Yeah, like doing.

01:07:48Guest:It's something you learn and you apply.

01:07:53Guest:So there's little things like everything.

01:07:57Guest:Hubbard has written down things like a locational, this thing, a process you do where you orient yourself in the environment if you're feeling overwhelmed.

01:08:08Guest:So there's like little things.

01:08:09Guest:Things like this you would never hear about because you only hear about this, all this other stuff with money and stuff like that.

01:08:16Marc:But specific writings and teachings you don't hear about.

01:08:19Marc:That's for sure.

01:08:20Guest:Yeah.

01:08:20Guest:Where you're like, what are people into?

01:08:22Marc:People mock it more than anything else.

01:08:23Marc:They mock the Thetans and they mock holding the cans.

01:08:26Guest:Exactly.

01:08:27Guest:Which I can take mocking of all different kinds.

01:08:31Guest:I don't care.

01:08:32Guest:What I do care about is do not take my name that I worked, that I live in my skin and associate it with a story that's not my own.

01:08:43Guest:Our experience that are not my own.

01:08:46Guest:That's all I'd ask.

01:08:47Guest:That's all I would give to somebody else.

01:08:49Guest:But as far as, and also money and shit, I don't, I pay, you know, I get Reiki healing.

01:08:55Guest:I'm really into this.

01:08:56Guest:I do acupuncture.

01:08:58Guest:These are things paid for.

01:09:00Guest:Anyway.

01:09:01Guest:Okay, so.

01:09:02Marc:But what does that mean?

01:09:03Marc:So you do give.

01:09:04Guest:I'm saying you pay for a service.

01:09:07Marc:Any sort of spiritual service.

01:09:08Guest:But I don't have it.

01:09:10Guest:People are looking at, what about the $100,000?

01:09:12Guest:That's not my experience.

01:09:14Guest:I didn't pay $100,000, so I don't know.

01:09:18Guest:That's not my experience.

01:09:20Guest:Maybe it was yours.

01:09:20Marc:You're not part of the tithing.

01:09:22Guest:No.

01:09:23Marc:Okay.

01:09:23Marc:So wait, so now tell me.

01:09:26Marc:So locational.

01:09:27Marc:I like that.

01:09:27Marc:Locational is good.

01:09:28Guest:And you'll see some of this stuff is like it's common sense stuff.

01:09:33Guest:Yeah.

01:09:34Guest:Looking around.

01:09:34Guest:I've had I've used that when I was sort of like an extension.

01:09:38Guest:Orienting yourself.

01:09:39Guest:Like when you're about to do a show, you can look around.

01:09:42Guest:I'll look to the back of the room.

01:09:44Marc:But yeah, it's like that moment you had the stone show.

01:09:46Guest:That's it.

01:09:47Guest:Yeah.

01:09:47Guest:So maybe I was doing something like that.

01:09:49Marc:Rooted in that.

01:09:50Marc:Yeah.

01:09:50Marc:But what was the, like, how did, because I'm fortunate in that I've never gotten that famous.

01:09:55Marc:Yeah.

01:09:55Marc:Like I keep a kind of mid-level presence publicly.

01:09:59Marc:Okay.

01:10:00Marc:My celebrity has never achieved, I can still live a comfortable life and go to the store.

01:10:04Marc:So when all that started happening to you, what was the direct effect?

01:10:09Marc:How did you know that you were losing it?

01:10:13Marc:What was it that you felt caused it outside of going to the supermarket and feeling the fear of violence?

01:10:19Guest:Well, before that, it didn't go straight to that.

01:10:23Guest:It was just more the energy shift.

01:10:26Marc:Like when natural-born killers are, right?

01:10:30Guest:No, I saw that recently.

01:10:31Guest:Another full circle moment was totally crazy, but Oliver and Woody Harrelson.

01:10:36Guest:So Oliver, Woody Harrelson, they were screening 25th anniversary of Natural Women.

01:10:41Marc:Yeah, I think I talked to Woody like the day of that thing.

01:10:44Guest:Oh my God.

01:10:46Guest:And I love Woody so much.

01:10:48Guest:Oliver, you know, he's a funny guy.

01:10:51Guest:But I watched it and I am all raw fucking...

01:10:59Guest:I knew, but he... See, Oliver let... He wanted the playing field.

01:11:05Guest:He wanted every idea you had.

01:11:07Guest:You sort of... It was like a guttural purging.

01:11:09Guest:He created the environment.

01:11:12Guest:We could improvise.

01:11:13Guest:We could do all the... Because I knew I was sort of going to wield lightning.

01:11:17Marc:But also I have to assume that as an actress and somebody who's a searcher like you and in the idea of, you know, you know, getting out of yourself, I mean, you know, to take to push the envelope, given the opportunity must have been pretty relieving.

01:11:33Guest:It was really fun.

01:11:35Guest:So, yes, there's these movies that I, that shaped me.

01:11:39Guest:And Natural Burn Killers is one of them because Oliver wanted, you could not be lazy.

01:11:46Guest:Like, he just wanted every idea.

01:11:48Guest:So he really valued people's creativity.

01:11:53Guest:Like, I'd show him, I wrote a scene, he'd be like, yeah, let's do that.

01:11:56Guest:And it was psychedelic.

01:11:58Guest:It was a psychedelic film in that you're going to go, OK, you're driving in a car and you're trying to get away from the cops, but there's demons running by the window.

01:12:07Guest:So just act that.

01:12:09Guest:You're like, fuck, what does that look like?

01:12:11Guest:You're on mushrooms, fearing the cops, and then there's devil people.

01:12:17Guest:So it's the ultimate make-believe shaping you up.

01:12:21Guest:For me, it's flawed.

01:12:23Guest:I almost say it's a little bit campy, but I know I scare a lot of people.

01:12:29Marc:As a comic, I thought that the weird thing on TV with Rodney Dangerfield, that was the fucking greatest.

01:12:36Marc:It was weird and fucked up.

01:12:39Guest:Yes.

01:12:40Marc:To get Rodney into that zone.

01:12:41Guest:Like, who dreamt that up?

01:12:44Guest:I know that Oliver, how that came about, you know, and there's all that friction or history that it was Tarantino's script.

01:12:54Guest:And, you know, I didn't know this whole backstory.

01:12:56Guest:Right, sure, sure.

01:12:57Guest:But so a lot of it's Oliver's subversion of what was there.

01:13:01Guest:And so...

01:13:02Guest:And I sort of said, because I was like, if you want any, I don't know if Oliver will remember this either, but I said, you can't have a female be this way without some kind, it just never was in history.

01:13:21Guest:Yeah.

01:13:22Guest:With Eileen Warren, it's like all we had of female serial killers are very specific.

01:13:27Guest:So I was like, some of it's got to have a backstory or something, which I know later I talked to Tarantino.

01:13:35Guest:He was like, he hated this idea.

01:13:38Guest:Yeah.

01:13:38Guest:that, you know, no, Mickey and Mallory are just the way they are, natural-born killers.

01:13:45Guest:But so my... That was Tarantino?

01:13:47Guest:That was Tarantino.

01:13:49Guest:But to Oliver, I said, yeah, you got to show, I mean, I don't know, this might be too crazy.

01:13:55Guest:You got to show that Mallory came from something that made her like a fucking hyena or something.

01:14:02Guest:And he took that and then did a laugh track, weird thing.

01:14:07Guest:sitcom with the family, laughter with the molestation.

01:14:12Guest:That was his freak show mind.

01:14:15Guest:Wow.

01:14:17Guest:Isn't that crazy?

01:14:18Marc:So you were on the set with Rodney for a day or two?

01:14:21Guest:Oh, my God.

01:14:22Guest:What a lovable, lovable, sweet man.

01:14:26Guest:And I had to jump on his back, and I think I might have hurt his back.

01:14:30Guest:Yeah.

01:14:31Guest:Even though I was light.

01:14:32Guest:He was like, you know, be easy.

01:14:33Guest:I'm not going to try to do it.

01:14:34Guest:Be easy, will you?

01:14:35Guest:Yes!

01:14:35Guest:I wasn't going to try to give you an impersonation.

01:14:37Guest:It wasn't good.

01:14:39Guest:Yeah.

01:14:40Guest:Oh, I tell you.

01:14:40Guest:I tell you.

01:14:41Guest:Yes.

01:14:43Guest:I think we did a couple takes of me hopping, jumping on his back, and he was like, all right, that's enough.

01:14:49Guest:But he tried to be a sport in the lunacy.

01:14:53Guest:Oh.

01:14:53Marc:All right, so the transition from anonymous you to not anonymous you, that led to this sort of meltdown?

01:15:00Guest:No, I think on the way, you know, earlier.

01:15:02Guest:You gotta go earlier.

01:15:04Guest:I had always that split problem of medicating.

01:15:11Guest:I was a crazy pot smoker.

01:15:12Guest:And then trying to be good, not medicate.

01:15:15Guest:And then all that, you know, responsibility.

01:15:20Guest:Because you feel sort of responsible for why you're getting this attention.

01:15:24Guest:Yet I was just turning 21.

01:15:26Guest:And so I remember a switch going off in my mind going,

01:15:30Guest:Fuck it.

01:15:31Guest:I'm going to act like any 21.

01:15:33Guest:Because everybody kept saying, oh, you're just 21.

01:15:36Guest:You're just 20.

01:15:36Guest:Because I was actually trying to navigate sort of a grown-up, responsible thing.

01:15:43Guest:I just didn't have the tools for it.

01:15:46Guest:So I did get into drugs.

01:15:48Guest:I don't really specify.

01:15:52Marc:They'll hang it on you?

01:15:53Marc:Did you go to rehab or you didn't?

01:15:55Guest:Yes.

01:15:57Marc:Yeah.

01:15:57Guest:Yeah.

01:15:57Guest:I mean, I did.

01:15:58Guest:Well, I didn't technically go to a rehab, but I had a sober like a person helped me.

01:16:04Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:16:05Guest:Detox.

01:16:06Guest:Yeah.

01:16:07Guest:At 22.

01:16:07Guest:Yeah.

01:16:08Guest:Yeah.

01:16:09Guest:It was that it was that type of drug.

01:16:11Guest:Right.

01:16:11Marc:Sure.

01:16:12Guest:So I'll just say because I love in drug culture.

01:16:16Guest:Because I was a downer person.

01:16:18Marc:Yeah.

01:16:18Guest:Because in drug, it was like, what?

01:16:20Guest:Fucking acid.

01:16:22Guest:Coke or meth.

01:16:24Guest:So I was the downer.

01:16:26Marc:You like to go down.

01:16:27Guest:I don't know.

01:16:28Guest:Or the painkiller.

01:16:29Guest:Sure.

01:16:29Marc:Sure.

01:16:30Marc:Well, no.

01:16:31Marc:I mean, I can tell you're hyper.

01:16:32Marc:Why not level it out?

01:16:33Guest:There you go.

01:16:34Marc:But for me.

01:16:35Guest:This is my cold brew and, okay, whatever.

01:16:37Marc:Cold brew will get me.

01:16:38Guest:Home stretch.

01:16:39Marc:I think cocaine had to, I think it had a Ritalin effect on me.

01:16:43Marc:Where you focus.

01:16:45Guest:Yeah.

01:16:46Marc:It throws me up, you know?

01:16:47Guest:Yeah, it does that.

01:16:48Marc:But so if you could name them, because it's interesting in thinking about the movies from Cape Fear, Natural Born Killers, but then even that, it wasn't a huge part, but it was a significant part in...

01:17:02Marc:Was it Husbands and Wives?

01:17:04Guest:Oh, yeah, that was a big deal.

01:17:06Marc:It was a big deal because, like, you know, you played kind of a regular college student person.

01:17:11Marc:It's like, look, she's fucking normal.

01:17:13Marc:She's fucking normal.

01:17:15Guest:No, here's what's funny.

01:17:16Guest:So I had this thing, and it's just luck of the draw.

01:17:21Marc:And you were, like, the one young character woman in a movie that he had sexual chemistry with that he didn't fuck.

01:17:26Marc:Yeah.

01:17:27Marc:In the relationship, in the movie.

01:17:28Guest:In the movie.

01:17:29Guest:Yeah.

01:17:29Guest:So, yeah.

01:17:31Guest:So here's the trip.

01:17:31Guest:I had this run in the early 90s where you're like, what the fuck?

01:17:35Guest:Who gets this?

01:17:36Guest:What's eating Gilbert Grape?

01:17:37Guest:So that's Lassa Holstrom.

01:17:38Guest:I'm a normal sort of Zen girl.

01:17:41Guest:I'm telling you that the Natural Run Killers was the cap on it.

01:17:44Guest:And that's where everyone was like, holy shit, this girl is nuts.

01:17:48Guest:Yeah.

01:17:48Marc:So it would go from Cape Fear, Husbands and Wives, What's Eating Gilbert Grape, California, Natural Born Killers.

01:17:54Marc:There was other movies, but those are the ones.

01:17:56Guest:Those are the ones that hit.

01:17:58Guest:Some are cult classics like the California.

01:18:01Guest:But where I did that didn't hit was the comedy.

01:18:04Guest:I did a comedy with Steve Martin.

01:18:06Guest:It was a Nora Ephron comedy called Mixed Nuts with Sandler, Rita Wilson,

01:18:13Marc:That dropped after Natural Born Killers?

01:18:16Guest:That was in between, yeah.

01:18:18Guest:I followed Natural Born Killers.

01:18:19Guest:It hadn't come out yet.

01:18:20Guest:I did a Steve Martin, little Nora Ephron comedy.

01:18:24Guest:No one saw it.

01:18:26Guest:So had someone saw it, they would have changed who I was.

01:18:30Marc:But this new, I guess we should talk a little bit.

01:18:33Guest:About current things.

01:18:35Marc:The Sacred Lies, The Singing Bones.

01:18:37Guest:Yeah.

01:18:38Marc:It looks pretty intense.

01:18:39Guest:It's a good mystery, I'm happy to say.

01:18:43Guest:It's a real cliffhanger, character-driven... Supernatural elements?

01:18:48Guest:It feels that way, but it's not.

01:18:51Guest:It's more like flashback.

01:18:53Guest:So it's a movie, a show, not a movie.

01:18:57Guest:So this is this new thing, Facebook Watch.

01:18:59Guest:You get these offers, and you're like, what is this platform?

01:19:03Guest:How do you see it?

01:19:04Guest:Yeah, oh, everyone has that.

01:19:05Guest:It's so simple.

01:19:06Guest:You just go online, click some buttons, and you're there.

01:19:09Guest:Everyone who has a Facebook page.

01:19:10Guest:Well, and you can download it like you do Hulu, Apple, blah, blah, blah, on your big remote.

01:19:15Guest:I don't know how to work those things.

01:19:16Guest:My boyfriend does that.

01:19:17Guest:Good.

01:19:18Guest:So the point is this was a great team.

01:19:21Guest:You have Raelle Tucker who had done True Lies.

01:19:26Guest:No, that's not the name.

01:19:28Guest:No.

01:19:28Guest:True Blood!

01:19:29Marc:True Blood, thank God.

01:19:30Guest:Oh my God, I'm not even pitching correctly.

01:19:32Marc:You did it, you did it.

01:19:33Guest:She was a writer.

01:19:34Guest:You found it.

01:19:35Guest:Okay, she's the show creator.

01:19:37Guest:It's character-driven, cliffhanger.

01:19:39Marc:Is it procedural, no?

01:19:41Guest:No, not at all.

01:19:43Marc:What's the pitch?

01:19:45Guest:Oh God, I'm a terrible pitcher.

01:19:47Marc:No, but what is it about?

01:19:49Guest:Oh, so I'm obsessed.

01:19:51Guest:I'm sort of this hermit person, shut in.

01:19:55Marc:Are you a professional?

01:19:56Guest:Not at all.

01:19:57Marc:Oh, you're just a person.

01:19:58Guest:I'm a person who lost her sister.

01:20:00Guest:Her sister was murdered.

01:20:01Guest:Okay.

01:20:02Guest:It is what is my driving obsession is to always find and give the identities back to all these cold cases.

01:20:10Guest:And it's loosely based on an amalgamation of cold cases.

01:20:14Guest:And there's 40,000, I think.

01:20:17Guest:Really?

01:20:17Guest:Unnamed murdered victims.

01:20:21Guest:Is that true?

01:20:22Guest:Fuck, I better get my numbers right.

01:20:23Guest:A year?

01:20:23Guest:No.

01:20:24Guest:Just existing today, 40,000.

01:20:28Guest:But it's something that Raelle Tucker, the creator, really researched it.

01:20:35Guest:And so there's this really involved story where I befriend a foster girl because we think she might be connected to this, that, and the other.

01:20:44Guest:But I'm obsessed.

01:20:45Guest:I'm one of these people that's obsessed with...

01:20:49Guest:True crime and cold cases, but it comes from a deep place of trauma.

01:20:53Guest:So it's like this really multilayered character.

01:20:56Guest:Wow.

01:20:57Guest:And she's super no vanity.

01:20:59Guest:It was a fun character to play.

01:21:00Guest:She's a gay woman who's very, but semi antisocial, but has a huge heart.

01:21:08Marc:And she just sort of so you it can go on forever because there's 40,000 of them.

01:21:13Guest:Well, no.

01:21:13Guest:The Singing Bones is this one case.

01:21:16Guest:Oh, okay.

01:21:17Guest:It's all related to this one case.

01:21:19Guest:And it was a season before, I guess they call it an anthology, where it's different people in different cases each time.

01:21:26Guest:It's this whole thing now.

01:21:27Guest:People do limited series.

01:21:29Marc:No, I know.

01:21:30Marc:It's instead of movies.

01:21:31Guest:I know.

01:21:31Guest:I like it.

01:21:32Guest:I mean, I miss the movies, don't get me wrong, but I do like limited series as well.

01:21:38Marc:I didn't realize you did two movies with Brad Pitt, both of them kind of menacing.

01:21:44Marc:You did like a Lifetime movie with him back in the day, and you did California.

01:21:48Guest:Okay, let me just say something.

01:21:50Guest:It's not a Lifetime movie.

01:21:52Guest:This was pre-Lifetime.

01:21:54Guest:But you could call it an after-school special kind of vibe.

01:21:58Marc:Yeah.

01:21:58Guest:Early on.

01:21:59Guest:But it was before you both were... It was before we were just two little young actors...

01:22:04Guest:It's a cool piece of history to come up with him, come up with DiCaprio and Johnny Depp.

01:22:15Guest:And then we did California, and that was neat.

01:22:20Guest:That was a trip.

01:22:21Guest:First time director, Dominic Senna, who went on to do big, huge movies like Gone in 60 Seconds.

01:22:28Marc:And do you talk to Brad ever?

01:22:30Guest:We've seen each other places at different times.

01:22:36Guest:When he was married to Jennifer earlier, said hello to both of them.

01:22:42Guest:Were you happy for him?

01:22:45Guest:Oh my gosh, yes.

01:22:47Guest:It's like people use sort of...

01:22:48Guest:not school, but you came up together, and he's a very good person, so I always wish him well, and so I was very happy for his whole year he had, and yeah.

01:23:02Marc:No, that's great, because a lot of times I ask people that, and they're like, yeah, I never talk to them anymore.

01:23:06Marc:I don't know.

01:23:07Marc:Obviously, not everyone keeps in touch with everybody they work with, but it sounds like

01:23:11Marc:you're grateful and happy, and it's always good to see that.

01:23:13Guest:Oh, yeah, for sure.

01:23:15Guest:I mean, there's people in your life you do, you, I don't know, not family, but my ex-husband.

01:23:21Guest:I mean, I was married for a minute.

01:23:23Guest:We were both 26.

01:23:25Guest:But he's like family to me.

01:23:27Guest:I don't talk to him all the time, but I always, you just want health and happiness for certain people.

01:23:32Marc:You don't have any resentment.

01:23:34Marc:Not at all.

01:23:35Marc:And also, now I've kind of half been thinking about what you said at the beginning for the entire thing.

01:23:40Marc:You part ways with me on my opinion of the Rolling Stones.

01:23:48Marc:I do want to be clear that I'm not an ageist.

01:23:52Guest:That's the word I was going to use.

01:23:55Guest:Okay, go on.

01:23:55Marc:And, you know, it's just, you know, I love them so much, but I do hold them in a certain place.

01:24:00Guest:Yes.

01:24:01Marc:And I can appreciate, certainly.

01:24:03Marc:I mean, the only real negative thing I say is just a little dig at Mick.

01:24:06Marc:But, like, look, I bought that blues record, you know, Blue and Lonesome.

01:24:11Guest:Oh, God bless.

01:24:11Guest:That's good.

01:24:12Marc:And it's, like, one of the best records I've heard in the last decade.

01:24:16Marc:Yeah.

01:24:16Guest:Wow, that's neat.

01:24:17Guest:Well, it's a blues record.

01:24:19Guest:Are they covers?

01:24:20Guest:Yeah.

01:24:21Guest:Okay, I'm going to get it.

01:24:21Marc:But it's like a straight-up blues record.

01:24:24Marc:It could have been the Stones' first album with the song list they did.

01:24:28Guest:I love hearing that.

01:24:29Marc:And it's so interesting to see a bunch of those guys who started out in earnest as a blues band.

01:24:36Guest:Yes, yes.

01:24:36Marc:now play the blues straight up.

01:24:39Marc:Because it's uniquely theirs.

01:24:40Marc:Because any idiot can play that music.

01:24:42Marc:But the Stones own it as these old guys that have had a whole life.

01:24:47Marc:But I just want you to know that I do respect the old dudes.

01:24:52Guest:That's awesome.

01:24:52Guest:Wait, before you leave, one other thing was, because when I watched that Stones, it did remind me of when Led Zeppelin reunited.

01:25:02Guest:I got to be at that concert.

01:25:04Guest:Was it for Ahmed?

01:25:06Guest:It was a guy in business.

01:25:08Guest:Sorry, I don't know.

01:25:08Marc:Ahmed Erdogan?

01:25:09Guest:Yes.

01:25:10Guest:So they came together.

01:25:12Guest:It was Bonham's son, Jason.

01:25:16Yeah.

01:25:16Guest:Um, and I had a friend who's very, uh, no, the Led Zeppelin 94, uh, 74.

01:25:24Guest:That's it.

01:25:24Guest:Like, don't, don't fuck with me.

01:25:26Guest:I don't want to see this.

01:25:28Guest:Okay.

01:25:29Guest:But I, I saw it and I was just, I, I, I just was like, I don't give a shit.

01:25:34Guest:This is Robert Plant.

01:25:36Guest:He didn't hit the high notes, but he hit a lower note, and it's Robert Plant hitting the note.

01:25:43Guest:Jimmy Page, there was a cohesion, and Jason, you're like, okay, touche, because those are some tough moves.

01:25:52Guest:It was good.

01:25:52Guest:Anyway, I liked it.

01:25:53Guest:My friend, he was not having it, so I understand, but I wasn't a loyalist at that time.

01:26:02Guest:I didn't grow up.

01:26:03Guest:I came late.

01:26:04Marc:Well, I remember when I was in high school, like I'm 56, when In Through the Outdoor came out, which was really the last studio record, I think.

01:26:12Marc:And that was, you know, that was in the late 70s, probably, if not 1980.

01:26:18Marc:And, you know, it was still good.

01:26:19Marc:But I think the thing with me in terms of my brain is not unlike...

01:26:25Marc:Well, you have these guys, you have whatever their work is that meant the most to you.

01:26:30Guest:Yes.

01:26:31Marc:It's sort of mythic, right?

01:26:32Guest:Yes, of course it is.

01:26:33Marc:And it's nice.

01:26:34Marc:I went and saw The Stones the last tour, I think a couple tours back when I wrote that bit.

01:26:40Marc:And it was great.

01:26:41Marc:And they were really playing.

01:26:42Marc:I was excited.

01:26:43Marc:Yeah, you acknowledge all of that.

01:26:47Marc:And I loved it.

01:26:48Marc:But...

01:26:49Marc:And also a lot of times the stuff that we're longing for, what we're nostalgic for, it was before our fucking time.

01:26:56Marc:It wasn't even a real memory.

01:26:58Guest:100%.

01:27:00Guest:Well, it reminds me of when Prince was touring and how he wouldn't play.

01:27:04Guest:Remember because of his religion?

01:27:07Guest:No, but his religion.

01:27:09Guest:I forgot what it was.

01:27:10Guest:Jehovah Witness.

01:27:11Guest:Jehovah Witness, yeah.

01:27:11Guest:Wouldn't play Little Red Corvette or Darling Nikki.

01:27:15Guest:Or he would do these jazzed up versions that fuck with you.

01:27:19Guest:So they tease you.

01:27:20Guest:It's a tough thing being an artist because at some point, it's good to have a fuck you in you all the time.

01:27:27Guest:You don't want to, what, am I here to please you?

01:27:30Guest:Sure.

01:27:30Guest:So it's a good spirit to have, but as an audience, a greedy little thing.

01:27:36Guest:I haven't seen Bob Dylan yet.

01:27:38Guest:I don't care.

01:27:38Guest:Never.

01:27:39Guest:There's certain people I haven't.

01:27:41Guest:I got to see Tom Petty's last show.

01:27:43Marc:I saw the second to the last one.

01:27:45Marc:At the Bowl?

01:27:46Marc:Was that where it was?

01:27:47Marc:At Hollywood Bowl, yeah.

01:27:48Guest:I felt those guys fell from the heavens and it was something next to God.

01:27:54Guest:There was top form.

01:27:56Guest:If there's any positive, they went out and top.

01:27:59Marc:People love Dylan.

01:28:00Marc:I know guys see him all the time.

01:28:01Marc:He's hit or miss.

01:28:02Marc:Sometimes he'll hit it.

01:28:03Marc:But also, it's like he's a guy that's not afraid to age.

01:28:08Marc:So he probably is on some level, but he's not trying to be anything he isn't.

01:28:12Marc:I mean, you can hear him.

01:28:14Marc:He just seems to want to die at a hotel somewhere after a state fair show.

01:28:19Marc:So if that's the way he wants to go, why wouldn't he want to do that?

01:28:22Guest:He's giving you what he is.

01:28:25Marc:Where do you live?

01:28:26Marc:On the road, man.

01:28:28Marc:That's it, right?

01:28:29Marc:And I love that.

01:28:31Marc:I like the old guys.

01:28:32Marc:I definitely like the old guys.

01:28:34Marc:It's a vulnerability that's tricky.

01:28:36Marc:Age forces a vulnerability.

01:28:38Guest:I can see that.

01:28:40Marc:Do you know what I mean?

01:28:40Marc:Which is not bad necessarily.

01:28:42Marc:But like, you know, having interviewed some of them, some of the like Roger Waters or Neil Young, you know, it's just it's sort of it's just sort of interesting, you know, that they're just they're they're fragile dudes, you know.

01:28:54Guest:Yes.

01:28:55Marc:But they are, you know, they are the geniuses.

01:28:57Marc:They are the they are the gods.

01:28:59Marc:But there they are.

01:29:00Marc:Just a little angry old man sitting in front of me.

01:29:02Guest:That's it.

01:29:03Guest:Hundred percent.

01:29:04Guest:I can't believe you interviewed those two.

01:29:05Guest:Those are who I want to see as well.

01:29:08Guest:And then Roger Waters, I didn't get to see that the last story he did.

01:29:15Guest:Was it two years ago?

01:29:16Marc:Yeah, they're great.

01:29:18Marc:And it was great to talk to them.

01:29:19Marc:But then there's also a part of me being sort of the end of the boomer spectrum where really it's sort of like, when do these guys stop?

01:29:26Marc:Right.

01:29:27Marc:You know what I mean?

01:29:27Marc:Like, you know, but they're both so vital and that music is timeless.

01:29:31Marc:That's the other thing about music is it's magical like nothing else.

01:29:35Marc:It's like people want to hear that song, play that song that we know, you know, for our whole life.

01:29:40Guest:Yeah.

01:29:40Marc:You know, sing that song for us.

01:29:42Guest:Well, and as long as it's vital to people, they don't have to stop.

01:29:47Guest:No.

01:29:47Guest:And I think it's important.

01:29:48Guest:For me, I just, and I know you see this.

01:29:50Guest:I think that's right.

01:29:51Guest:But music is, like when my dad, he had, not to bring it to this, but he had Parkinson's dementia and couldn't bear those forming sentences.

01:30:01Guest:And one of our last fun things was listening to Van Halen's Jump.

01:30:06Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:30:07Guest:And I also took him to a Steely Dan concert.

01:30:09Guest:He was all Steely Dan when I was growing up.

01:30:11Guest:Oh, right.

01:30:12Guest:And he, in that time, was not sick.

01:30:15Guest:There was no time at that time.

01:30:17Guest:There was no sickness.

01:30:18Guest:When you were playing the music.

01:30:19Guest:There was no time.

01:30:20Guest:You can transcend the music, and it's just so deep and beautiful.

01:30:24Guest:Yeah.

01:30:25Guest:And it goes right in.

01:30:27Marc:Right in.

01:30:27Guest:All right.

01:30:28Guest:What was this, nine hours?

01:30:30Marc:About nine.

01:30:31Guest:Jesus.

01:30:32Marc:But it's great.

01:30:32Marc:It was a great nine hours.

01:30:34Guest:I mean, I have no place to judge.

01:30:37Guest:I hope everyone enjoyed it.

01:30:38Guest:Yeah, well, I did.

01:30:39Guest:I did.

01:30:40Guest:Okay, thanks for coming.

01:30:41Guest:Bye.

01:30:47Marc:That was Juliette Lewis.

01:30:48Marc:I love her.

01:30:50Marc:Her series, The Sacred Lies, The Singing Bones, season two, is now streaming on Facebook Watch.

01:30:57Marc:And don't forget to go to podswag.com slash WTF or WTFpod.com and click on the merch link.

01:31:03Marc:Get yourself some stuff from our new decade of domination collection, signed posters, glow-in-the-dark shirts, writing sets with designs by artist Johnny Jones.

01:31:12Marc:My Netflix special premieres March 10th.

01:31:14Marc:I'll talk to you Thursday.

01:31:16Guest:Boomer lives!

01:31:17Guest:Boomer lives!

01:31:27you