Episode 1086 - Brad Pitt & Leonardo DiCaprio
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck, buddies?
Marc:What the fuck, Nicks?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:It's 2020.
Marc:My name's Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:It's the new year.
Marc:This is really, I believe, probably the official first show of the new year.
Marc:In the sense that we're all back from vacation, right?
Marc:I mean, it got a little crazy, that vacation.
Marc:It gets a little... Between Thanksgiving and, like, today...
Marc:It gets to a point where I don't even know what fucking day it is.
Marc:I don't know what meals I've eaten.
Marc:I'm not sure what I should be looking for on television.
Marc:I don't know when it's time to wake up, when it's time to go to bed.
Marc:It gets a little foggy.
Marc:Yesterday, I had no fucking idea.
Marc:I had no idea.
Marc:On Saturday, I didn't know it was Saturday.
Marc:What day is today?
Marc:It's Monday, right?
Marc:It's Monday.
Marc:Fuck, man.
Marc:I'm not saying I'm happy vacation is over, but I kind of am.
Marc:Things get weird.
Marc:Things get they slow down.
Marc:The garbage pickup gets weird.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'm focusing on minutia here.
Marc:But yeah, so here we are.
Marc:This is it.
Marc:Back to work.
Marc:Big show today.
Marc:Let's let's not go crazy.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Let's not go crazy today.
Marc:I have Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt on the show.
Marc:I talked to them in a green room at the Arclight Theater in Hollywood, California.
Marc:That was where it could go down.
Marc:It's a package deal, Pitt and DiCaprio.
Marc:We took the package off-site.
Marc:I had to go off-site with the equipment.
Marc:I'll get into that in a minute.
Marc:I have some emails here, and this is on the up note.
Marc:This is the good stuff.
Marc:You know, there is hope.
Marc:There is personal growth.
Marc:There are leaves to be turned over.
Marc:And, you know, I hope you're all heading into the new year with some, I don't know if I would say optimism, but with, you know, some clarity is nice.
Marc:I got this email from somebody.
Marc:Thanks for getting me into rehab.
Marc:Mr. Marin, my name is Matt and I'm an addict with almost four months clean.
Marc:I'm currently watching season four of Marin in a sober house in the suburbs of Kansas City.
Marc:Not that I would expect you to remember, but we actually met a few years back when you played the Midland Theater here.
Marc:I was working at the grocery store across the street.
Marc:We talked briefly before and then again after the show.
Marc:I hadn't listened to the podcast in a while, but I happened to pick out the episode where you talked about getting 20 years and told your story.
Marc:It's not like I checked myself in right then.
Marc:I did carry your story around with me for a while after that, though.
Marc:Your openness about working the program made it easier for me to buy in, and I haven't looked back since.
Marc:So thank you.
Marc:I hope this might make its way to you and that maybe...
Marc:I'll see you here again at some point.
Marc:Matt, Matt, congratulations, man.
Marc:Congratulations.
Marc:That's a big deal.
Marc:And I hear about this stuff a lot.
Marc:And I'm just so, you know, there's so many things that are out of our control.
Marc:And if drinking is one of those things that's out of your control, and if I can be of any assistance in helping you, you know, even get a day reprieve off a problem fucking drinking or weed or crank or dope or whatever it is.
Marc:If I can help you get a day so you can get a little bit of clarity, I feel humbled and happy to do that.
Marc:Now, I will not have watched the Golden Globes, so I can't comment on them.
Marc:But I do know that the guys I'm about to talk to, that you're going to hear me talk to, are both nominated for them for Best Actor and Best Supporting Actor, I believe, for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
Marc:Now, the way this unfolded, folks,
Marc:You know, we get pitched people.
Marc:We get opportunities.
Marc:We work with a booking agency.
Marc:And I've talked to Brad Pitt here and there.
Marc:He's a fan of mine.
Marc:And I'm flattered and honored, you know, because I have a great deal of respect for that dude's craft and his performances and his talent.
Marc:And it's nice when somebody that you respect likes your shit.
Marc:But he's sort of oddly a little obsessed with my TV show, with Marin.
Marc:Not with Glow, with Marin from IFC, which is on Netflix here in America, all four seasons.
Marc:But it will be taken off Netflix in a few days, I think on the 12th or 13th.
Marc:I don't know why, just the way life works.
Marc:But the last time I saw him, he'd watched the entire series twice.
Marc:So it's kind of exciting when I get to see him again and what he has to say when we meet at this time.
Marc:Now, I've never met Leonardo DiCaprio.
Marc:I was excited.
Marc:Now, here's the deal.
Marc:I think this might be the last one I do like this.
Marc:Because I the anxiety level is high.
Marc:And I know that some of you heard me make a big deal out of some of the problems I have with my equipment during the John Turturro episode.
Marc:But you didn't really hear them because my producer, Brendan McDonald's a genius.
Marc:but I do get a tremendous amount of anxiety and I'm already anxious going into these conversations, even though I've done a thousand plus of them, I never really know what's going to happen and it causes me some anxiety.
Marc:You know, I'm excited, but I don't really know.
Marc:I would say 99.9, I would say 98% of the time heading into a talk, I'm anxious.
Marc:I'm nervous.
Marc:I'm, uh, I, I don't know, you know, how, what's going to happen.
Marc:I have to, I meditate on how to approach it.
Marc:You know, how am I going to, you know, uh,
Marc:What's the through line in my mind?
Marc:What can I lock into to start the conversation?
Marc:I don't know these things and it doesn't and hasn't gotten any better after a thousand, however many episodes.
Marc:So when I go out with the equipment and this is I bring it.
Marc:I usually have it with me.
Marc:in case I have to do intros or the ads from the road.
Marc:And sometimes, obviously, you've heard me do interviews on the road.
Marc:But then that's one other level of anxiety is working that equipment.
Marc:Will the mics hold up?
Marc:Will the wires work?
Marc:Can I get the levels right?
Marc:And I'm not a sound engineer.
Marc:So that causes another level of anxiety.
Marc:And, okay, I'll cop to it.
Marc:There were a couple of issues.
Marc:it's interesting uh when they walk in and you'll hear it you know they're all jacked up because they just got done doing a panel in front of a bunch of people and i know what that feels like i've been in that in the room that i recorded i've been in the room three times uh for sag panels for glow i've been in that room waiting to go out and do one of these things but they walk in and they're kind of lit up and uh
Marc:It's pretty, you know, it's pretty exciting, man.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:So I'm sitting there and you hear commotion.
Marc:There's always commotion around big movie stars because there's a buzz and a hum.
Marc:There's usually several people, maybe a dozen people, personal security, publicists, people who work at the place.
Marc:There's just a, all of a sudden, there's just sort of like you feel the entire frequency of the building changes.
Marc:But here's the thing, you know, it's weird.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:that like I've done so many of these things and I'm sitting in this room and I can, people become people very quickly to me.
Marc:And I think what's important to know about me and about this process is the one thing in this life that keeps me upbeat, engaged, engaged,
Marc:hopeful, and interested is talking to people.
Marc:It's talking to the people I talk to on this show and in my life.
Marc:No matter what they do, that's not the thing.
Marc:They're all people.
Marc:But just doing it, no matter how much dread I have or how much anxiety I'm experiencing in any given moment, if I'm engaged in a conversation, it dissipates.
Marc:I lose myself in the conversation.
Marc:And I know there are people in my head, but I got to be honest with you, folks.
Marc:I'm not...
Marc:I don't have anybody up on a pedestal, and I'm not a starstruck person, but these guys are shiny fuckers.
Marc:They are shiny fuckers.
Marc:Man, it's a natural gift.
Marc:I mean, granted, I've grown up most of my life seeing Brad Pitt in movies and doing amazing work, and the same with DiCaprio.
Marc:And again, I have a lot of respect for these guys, but when they walk in, I mean...
Marc:They feel like movie stars, and that's just... That is a natural goddamn gift.
Marc:I did the work in my brain to separate them from... These are people, and I'm going to separate them from their work.
Marc:They're going to be in front of me, and they're going to be regular people.
Marc:But, you know, they're just fucking movie stars, and they're both great actors, and it was very exciting.
Marc:Amidst all the chaos in my brain, there were moments where I just...
Marc:I was just trying to be normal, folks.
Marc:Just trying to be cool.
Marc:The other tricky thing is that, you know, I had an hour.
Marc:So I got there, I got to the Arclight an hour early to sit around, think, look at my four notes, think about the movies, think about where do I want to go, how is it going to work, and then I know I got an hour, and then you're out.
Marc:An hour, and you're out, and then that's it.
Marc:And then I'm sitting there alone with my recorder wrapping up cords.
Marc:That's the thing.
Marc:That's the beautiful moment at the end of this that you don't get to see, folks, is that after all the excitement and hoopla and all the entourages leave, the security people leave, the movie stars leave, it's just me in a room wrapping up cords, unplugging stuff, and...
Marc:filling a bag up and walking out by myself to the parking lot, hoping that whatever is in the machine isn't fucked up.
Marc:So there you go.
Marc:That's the inside scoop.
Marc:Now let's go there to that room.
Marc:At the Arclight, where I talked to Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio.
Marc:As I said before, they're both nominated for Golden Globes and SAG Awards for their roles in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
Marc:And by the time this is airing, one or both of them may have won the Golden Globes, which were last night.
Marc:They're both strong contenders for Oscar nominations as well.
Marc:And I got to sit there and panic in front of them.
Marc:So enjoy it.
Marc:Mr. Mark Maron.
Marc:How are you, buddy?
Guest:This is cool as shit.
Marc:Relax, fellas.
Marc:Relax.
Marc:We're with the great Mark Maron.
Marc:How are we going to... You're so nice about me.
Guest:Dude, I'm a fan.
Guest:He really is.
Guest:I'm a fan.
Guest:I remember him talking about you on...
Guest:On the movie, you were going off.
Marc:About my show.
Guest:I love this show.
Marc:Yeah, it's leaving Netflix.
Guest:And where's it going?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:I just know on January 12th, it's over.
Guest:It's over, yeah.
Guest:I've seen it three times, the entire series.
Guest:It's my happy place.
Guest:It is.
Guest:to see you miserable makes me makes me not feel so bad that's what it's all about i'm carrying the burden for others you really are yeah and i love but i just love how you i think i told you this when i bumped into you how you you'll like suffer some minor injustice in the world yeah from another yeah have it out with them yeah you suffer no fools
Guest:And then you invite them back to listen to your new turntable or something.
Guest:We're equal now.
Guest:We're all humans again.
Marc:Well, I think that's an attempt.
Marc:I don't know if you have that problem where I'll act like an asshole.
Marc:And then you kind of claw your way back into someone's life and hopefully they'll forgive you for it.
Guest:See, I thought you were justified.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yes, I did.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I thought you were speaking for all of us.
Guest:And then everything's okay.
Marc:Everything's okay, usually, until it comes back later.
Marc:Is this how we do it?
Guest:We speak into the mic?
Marc:Is this the correct distance?
Marc:Yeah, I think this is good.
Marc:You never know who's going to fuck up with a mic, man.
Marc:Some people can't do it.
Marc:Well, I'm not comfortable with it.
Guest:Are you?
Guest:Yeah, I'm fine.
Guest:I think we just hold it like a mic stand.
Guest:You look like a torch singer.
Marc:I'll tell you what.
Guest:You do look comfortable.
Marc:There was a big problem with, and I'm not being mean, but John Turturro talks a lot with his hands.
Marc:So there was a lot of this happening.
Marc:Right, right.
Guest:He's Italian.
Marc:Yeah, so if you listen to that one.
Marc:You get a lot of back and forth.
Guest:But when you have the comfort of the garage, aren't they sad?
Guest:Aren't they hanging?
Guest:Yeah, of course, man.
Guest:They're on booms.
Guest:It's when you're on mobile here.
Marc:You guys couldn't make it out to the garage.
Guest:That anything could happen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's a little sad.
Marc:So what just went on in there?
Guest:We did a little Q&A.
Guest:For the movie.
Guest:For the old film.
Guest:That's where they screen it.
Guest:Quentin's in there.
Marc:He's in there still, just talking to himself.
Guest:It's great to do with Quentin.
Guest:He does all the heavy lifting.
Guest:He carries the load.
Marc:He'll just keep going.
Marc:He will keep going.
Marc:So I guess it's always hard to figure out where to start when I'm talking to two dudes, two guys.
Marc:But the last time I saw you, two dudes, as opposed to one dude.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:You meant two women?
Guest:No, no, with two huge careers.
Marc:And I got to like somehow wrangle it up here.
Marc:But the last time I saw you was at that Art Basel thing.
Marc:Right, the art.
Guest:No.
Guest:I saw you at the flea thing.
Marc:Yeah, it was at the art thing.
Marc:At the art thing, because my ex, my now ex, had an exhibit.
Guest:Oh, it's your ex.
Guest:You were so sweet.
Guest:You were outside, like, barking for her, like, bringing people in to see her art.
Guest:I love her.
Marc:I thought it was very sweet.
Marc:I mean, I still have a lot of respect for her, and I love her, but I just, I'm out.
Guest:Okay, let me ask you this.
Guest:What?
Guest:What did you think of her art?
Marc:I liked it.
Marc:I liked it a lot.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Because there's something about abstraction that either it's going to work or it's not.
Marc:I mean, you're an abstract guy, right?
Marc:You like abstract art.
Guest:I like a lot of art.
Guest:So does my man here.
Marc:Well, that's what I was going to talk to you about.
Marc:Because the first time I met you guys, or met you, you were hanging out with Thomas House ago.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:He's your buddy.
Marc:He's a giant sculptor.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Big sculptor.
Marc:That's the one.
Marc:So you both collect art?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And your dad was like a comic guy.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Last Gasp?
Guest:Well, he was a comic book distributor around Los Angeles, and he used to take me in his station wagon called the Pussmobile.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was a broken down, yellow, messed up station wagon.
Guest:We used to go to Golden Apple and Heidi Ho.
Guest:Basically every weekend of my life was trucking around to comic book stores and head shops.
Guest:Selling Duran Duran posters and the Fabulous Freak Brothers and Cherry Pop Tart and all these.
Guest:Art Crumb stuff?
Guest:All Art Crumbs.
Guest:My dad's actually friends with Art Crumb and Robert Williams.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I interviewed Robert.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:He's amazing.
Guest:That's like one of his best friends.
Guest:Really?
Guest:So he's kind of a zealig of the counter hippie culture.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I grew up going to the Doodah Parade, hanging out with all these underground artists.
Duran Duran stuff.
Guest:That was to make a little cash.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Because although, you know, although my future college funds was a, you know, a box of underground comic books, that didn't exactly pay the bills.
Guest:But that was literally my college fund, like every number one comic book.
Guest:Underground comic.
Guest:None of the Marvel or DC stuff, which actually went up.
Guest:Worth a lot of money.
Guest:Only the original art, the Crumb art, has really skyrocketed.
Guest:Now, do you have that stuff?
Guest:I do have a couple.
Guest:I picked up a couple, luckily.
Guest:He is the man from the underground art scene that has hit the marketplace and actually become... And Robert Williams is very bitter about it all.
Guest:I collect Robert Williams, too.
Guest:That man is a god to me.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:You will hear nothing but wonderful things.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I think he's great, but that's one of the weird chips on his shoulder is that he never got established art success.
Guest:Well, he was with Tony Schifrazi in New York for a while.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:I remember.
Guest:It's the whole L.A.
Guest:underground art scene.
Guest:Trying to make it to New York is a very tough thing.
Marc:transition you know what i mean right but that's also it seems like those guys get stuck in that kind of like comic art outsider art graphic art right trip whereas guys like like house ago that's fine art shit right that's big time if it yeah when it lands that way sure yeah and and and do you have a couple of those huge pieces i in fact indeed i do and i like them well what what what kind of art do you gravitate to the most so
Marc:Ooh, I wouldn't know how to describe that.
Guest:Yeah, I don't even say... I mean, even the word collection kind of bothers me.
Guest:It kind of makes me go... Yeah, right.
Guest:You're not buying it as an investment.
Guest:No, no, never.
Guest:Just certain things that move me and I like to be around each day and might inspire my kids or something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know...
Guest:some of thomas's stuff is can could scare them as well but yeah do you do it do you are you do you do sculptures anything i i have been on my own just really yeah just just like i mean because what we do is such a collaborative sport sure i found that uh for the better yeah you know for the worst sometimes you know i've seen performances improved enhanced like on this one yeah or i've seen them you know take a take a beating
Guest:Right.
Guest:And to do something that just you and on your own and very solitary, I find very meditative.
Marc:Well, yeah, that's the weird thing.
Marc:I mean, because you guys both see what you do as art, right?
Guest:Yeah, I hope so.
Guest:We're not quite allowed, are we?
Guest:I guess we're allowed to say that.
Guest:Certainly entertainers, but are we allowed to say?
Guest:I think we can say that.
Marc:That you're an artist?
Marc:All right.
Marc:Of course you can.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But it's something you work towards, right?
Marc:I mean, like, do you remember your first jobs?
Marc:Of course.
Guest:Oh, God, yes.
Guest:It was TV, right?
Guest:Both of you.
Guest:Both of us were television.
Marc:I mean... Yeah.
Marc:Did that help out in knowing this guy part, this part in this movie?
Marc:The whole TV world?
Guest:I think for sure.
Guest:I mean, I think the truth is...
Guest:What was so great about Quentin's script was the sort of outsider approach that he took to the industry, two guys that were certainly my character being on the brink of extinction as the hippie cultural movement is coming into play.
Guest:And he's like a remnant of old hat.
Guest:Hollywood sort of cowboy television, and he hasn't made that transition.
Guest:And as a byproduct, you know, Cliff, my psychiatrist security guard, house man is suffering the consequences.
Guest:And of course, Roman Polanski moves in next door in that.
Guest:you know symbolizes everything that we aren't right sure and are trying to be right just that approach right away i think you know we we've been doing this for a long time we've been very you know fortunate to be successful in what we do but we remember those days remember looking up to all these actors that were doing it and like who when you were coming like like when you started out like what were your first tv gigs i can't remember
Guest:I did a year, one season of Parenthood, which was a spinoff of the movie Parenthood with Steve Martin.
Guest:And I played Joaquin Phoenix's role in the television version of Parenthood.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I actually studied Joaquin Phoenix's performance in that to get my first job.
Guest:Did you?
Guest:I do that today.
Guest:Exactly.
Exactly.
Guest:And then I did Growing Pains, which he was, I did a whole season of Growing Pains.
Guest:He was on a few episodes.
Guest:You were?
Guest:I guest starred on Growing Pains.
Guest:With him.
Guest:Growing Pains.
Guest:I worked with Hilary Swank on my season, but I never worked with you.
Marc:And were you guys, like at that point, obviously you wanted to be actors and you wanted to be movie actors, but were you studying to be, were you doing, actively working with people, training people?
Guest:Other than drama class at school, no.
Guest:Really?
Guest:No formal training.
Guest:I was.
Guest:I came out from the Ozarks, and I needed a little bit of polishing.
Guest:And so I finally got a – yeah, I can say Ozarks now because now there's a show.
Guest:People have some idea of what that might be.
Marc:But is that a great idea, that show?
Guest:Yeah, it's not so far off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They just left out the Bible Belt portion of it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I went on my first audition, and I'm pretty excited about it.
Guest:It was for a film, and I came back, and this agent who was trying me on, as they did then, I said, how did I do?
Guest:And she said, you ever thought about acting classes?
Guest:I'd been in them for six months, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And who were you studying with?
Guest:A guy named Roy London.
Guest:He was fantastic.
Guest:Oh, this guy.
Guest:He's not with us anymore.
Guest:Yeah, he really sent me in a great direction.
Guest:A lot of people studied with that guy.
Guest:Yeah, a few people.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:And you just studied in high school.
Guest:Yeah, but then after a while, I started studying with Larry Moss, who's an amazing coach, too.
Marc:And that was – do you guys use guys now or you're done with it?
Marc:I talk to Larry all the time.
Marc:You do?
Marc:I talk to Leo.
Guest:And he talks to Larry for me.
Guest:Gives me a few pointers.
Guest:Like what kind of questions do you ask him?
Guest:No, he just pushes you.
Guest:You need them.
Guest:He kind of just drives me to make decisions.
Guest:It's, you know –
Guest:like i said i only got into movies because you know i was really lucky that that that television show had me locked in for the season it was really out the late out great alan thick and those producers that said you know what let the kid off the last few episodes to go work with de niro and they didn't need to do that right you know i i uh and immediately i had like this elitist approach about movies and then
Guest:alan was like you know we love you i was like oh my god yes sir he wrote him i was like i am so incredibly thankful that you let me have that opportunity and you did like what did you do 21 jump street too i did that too yeah a very special episode dealing with suicide
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I think it was even billed as a very special episode.
Guest:It was just one?
Guest:And maybe I had two lines.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:It was only one episode of that?
Guest:Oh, me?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A guest star.
Guest:And then I guest starred on, like, the last year of 30-something.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I had one line.
Guest:It was either yes or no.
Guest:I can't remember.
Guest:One word, actually.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you were at, so you were, like, really at it a while.
Marc:What was your first movie?
Guest:I did a movie in former Yugoslavia.
Guest:Oh, nice.
Guest:Big budget film.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:First time on a plane.
Guest:Really?
Guest:First passport.
Guest:Got to go out of the country.
Guest:Really?
Marc:And you were how old?
Guest:I was 38.
Guest:No.
Guest:I was like, I don't know, early 20s.
Marc:First time on a plane.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You drove out here?
Guest:You drove to LA.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:From Oklahoma.
Guest:Missouri.
Marc:Missouri.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's where you're from.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oklahoma via Southern Missouri.
Marc:And what?
Marc:In a truck?
Guest:No, a little Datsun.
Guest:A little beat up Datsun.
Guest:Like a P210?
Guest:Close.
Guest:No, a little better.
Guest:Don't tell me it was a Datsun 210.
Guest:No, it was a 300SX at that point.
Guest:But the bumper's hanging off, you know, and you're loaded up where you can just see forward.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you just, like, you finished college out there?
Guest:I didn't finish.
Guest:I did four years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I didn't officially finish.
Marc:You just split.
Guest:You're going to act.
Guest:It's just done.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's going to go.
Marc:But when you were growing up in Missouri, did you know you were going to – did you do acting there?
Marc:Hell no.
Marc:There's no acting.
Guest:There wasn't then.
Guest:No?
Guest:None of the Ozarks.
Guest:What town was it?
Guest:It was Springfield.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you grew up like literally in the Ozarks?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Are you folks still there?
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Family, brother, sister, they live on the same street.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Still go to the Ozarks for the summers.
Marc:Do you go visit?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you bring all of your kids to the Ozarks?
Marc:We would, yes.
Guest:That's nice.
Marc:But fortunately, California is more of a draw.
Marc:Oh, so they come.
Guest:So they like to come here.
Guest:That's all right.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:So you drove out here.
Marc:Okay, so Yugoslavia.
Marc:What was that?
Guest:What movie was that?
Guest:It's called Dark Side of the Sun.
Guest:About a kid with a skin disease who can't go out in the sun or something.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then decides, you know, living a week is worth living in the sun.
Guest:It's worth living, then not living at all.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:So he goes out into the sun?
Guest:Yeah, and he dies.
Guest:And he dies.
Guest:That's amazing.
Guest:That's an amazing plot line.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember Powder, but this is totally... What about the one which... Yes, this would have been this D version of Powder.
Marc:But wasn't Travolta in a bubble movie?
Guest:Oh, yes, he was.
Marc:Couldn't we have a bubble?
Marc:Damn fine movie.
Guest:Damn fine movie.
Marc:And your first movie was Boy's Wife?
Guest:No, actually, no, no.
Guest:It was my first.
Guest:I did a small part in Critters 3.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which we shot at a smart and final in Santa Monica.
Guest:Move your hand up on that thing so you're not holding the connection.
Marc:Oh, I'm sorry.
Marc:Where's the buzz coming from, man?
Marc:Where's the buzz?
Guest:Oh, you're on it.
There you go.
Marc:Still a buzz?
Marc:No.
Marc:No, it's kind of gone.
Marc:Good, man.
Marc:Was that awkward when I got all freaked out?
Guest:No.
Guest:Not really.
Guest:I kind of expect you to get all... We'll be patient and we'll cut this out.
Guest:It'll be all great.
Guest:No, I kind of expect you to get all...
Guest:Freaked out a little bit.
Guest:I'm like kind of waiting for it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Dude.
Guest:Lose your shit.
Marc:I was with fucking Turturro, man.
Marc:And the hand thing was one thing.
Marc:And then I looked down and the fucking thing wasn't recording.
Marc:So he saw it.
Marc:We'd done like a half an hour, man.
Marc:And I was like, oh, fuck.
Marc:And Jotaro's sitting there watching me spin out.
Marc:Like, I literally just wanted to quit.
Marc:Like, I was like, it was done.
Marc:And he goes, how much did we lose?
Marc:And I said, like, 25 minutes.
Marc:He goes, I remember it.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:Oh, that's awesome.
Marc:It was like a script.
Marc:Like, he literally recapsured the whole thing.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:But that made me wonder.
Guest:I can't go backwards.
Guest:I'd have to leave.
Guest:But I am here just to see you lose your shit.
Marc:Well, maybe it'll happen.
Marc:It almost happened.
Marc:Hey, hey, ooh, that mic's really hot.
Marc:Why is that mic different than the rest?
Marc:Fucking fuck.
Guest:This whole thing's gonna be a disaster.
Guest:It's digressing.
Guest:That's what you've been waiting for.
Marc:I'm going down fast, guys.
Marc:It's not happening.
Marc:Hello, check, check.
Marc:This one sounds weird now.
Guest:Hello.
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I don't like it.
Marc:Is there an actual home?
Marc:Check.
Marc:Check.
Guest:Check.
Marc:Oh, here we go.
Marc:Here we go.
Marc:Did that all work out for you?
Marc:That freaking?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I enjoyed that.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I think we're good now.
Marc:Jesus Christ.
Marc:That was fucking terrible.
Marc:It was fucking terrible.
Marc:So what were we just talking about?
Marc:Movies?
Guest:We were talking about our earliest movie.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:So I did a guest part on Critters 3.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What was that?
Guest:Critters.
Guest:What was that like?
Guest:Critters 3 at a smart and final in Santa Monica.
Guest:And then I think my first role in an actual movie.
Guest:It was with Sarah Gilbert and Drew Barrymore, and it was called Poison Ivy.
Guest:And I had a whole monologue insulting Sarah Gilbert.
Guest:Nice.
Guest:And I messed up my lines.
Guest:I think I was 12 or 13 years old.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Screwed up my lines.
Guest:Then they just said, all right, kid, just walk in and look at her and say, problems.
Guest:And I said, just problems?
Guest:And I walked in, and I said, problems.
Guest:That was my line.
Guest:And then they cut that out of the movie.
Guest:So I'm not in the movie at all.
Guest:My first role, I'm actually not in at all.
Guest:They completely edited me out.
Marc:Now, how much does the effect, because you guys both worked with Alejandro in Arrito.
Marc:You did Babel with him, right?
Marc:And you did The Revenant.
Marc:Now, that guy seems to be in terms of like you both work with great directors, but in terms of being part of Quentin, too.
Marc:But in terms of being something that like if you look at the scripts and look at the vision of it as being like, holy fuck, this is a real piece of art with that guy like rank up there with that.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where you don't even know how it's all going to work out in the scope of it.
Guest:Oh, there was no way to foresee what he was going to do out there.
Guest:I mean, the script was one thing.
Guest:It was kind of his linear story of a guy surviving out in the wilderness, you know, a great sort of revenge story.
Guest:But I mean...
Guest:What he did cinematically with that movie just blows me away.
Guest:And there was a point where he wanted to sort of continue that idea of a singular shot like he had done with Birdman throughout the course of that entire wilderness until we got to the point that we realized there are two characters that go in opposite directions.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:And then he quickly sort of improvised with Chivo, the great cinematographer.
Guest:on trying to keep this linear sort of one-shot snake idea, but then cut back and forth.
Guest:But at one time he was like, no, no, I'm going to do one shot all the way through.
Guest:And then he realized there's thousands of miles between us and they'd have to do a puff of smoke and fly over back and forth.
Guest:But what they did on that movie and in those conditions, I don't know how they pulled it off.
Guest:It was incredible.
Marc:And your thing with him, that scene on the bus where that bullet comes through the window,
Marc:Right?
Marc:Isn't that that right?
Guest:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:But when you read that script, did you see how all those stories were going to fit together?
Marc:I mean, when you get a project like that, do you just trust the guy?
Guest:Yeah, you trust him by his previous work.
Guest:And also, there was something in the way it was constructed.
Guest:It was the end scene for me that made me want to do it.
Guest:Because only going through that whole journey that he realized how close he came to losing everything.
Guest:And that's when...
Guest:you know the adrenaline's gone he could just and just break down from it all i was i was moved by that but i didn't know the depths again it's what he was saying you don't know what he's got in his mind you just know it's yeah you really bank on he's reaching the filmmaker i mean because i mean after having read so many great screenplays that have been turned to dog shit in the wrong hands right
Guest:You actually realize that the filmmaker is the one that elevates material and brings things to it that you could have never foreseen.
Guest:We're seeing it through their eyes.
Marc:Do you have movies where either of you think you don't know how it got away from whoever it got away from, but it wasn't you?
Marc:Where you watch the final thing and you're like, what the fuck happened here?
Marc:Yes, sir.
Guest:It's that horrible feeling when you're screening with others and the lights come up and everyone looks at you to say something.
Guest:And you know.
Guest:You just know.
Guest:You're like, oh, fuck.
Guest:Oh, fuck.
Guest:Do you remember any of the lines that anyone told you after?
Guest:Well, you know, if they ever come up and they say, I really like the music.
Guest:Who did the music?
Guest:Who did that?
Guest:That music was amazing.
Guest:Then, you know, it's the dead giveaway.
Guest:I have a couple.
Guest:I went to a premiere.
Guest:I won't mention the name of the film, but I just remember my friend looking at me and going, not my cup of tea.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not my cup of tea.
Marc:You don't know what it was about it?
Marc:That wasn't his cup of tea.
Marc:Everything about it.
Guest:You know it's a turd, though.
Guest:You feel it.
Guest:You just feel it.
Guest:And it's the first time you see it.
Guest:All the work, everything that went into it.
Guest:And you know it's just a turd.
Guest:It smells so bad.
Guest:Nothing's landing.
Marc:You know.
Marc:Right when the promotion starts, right when the posters come out.
Guest:It doesn't take long.
Guest:You just feel it when you're sitting in the cinema and you're going, oh, my God.
Guest:It's going to be bad.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:This is bad.
Marc:This is so bad.
Marc:You've been at it like 10 more years or so than him, so you've got a lot more movies.
Marc:I've been at it a little bit longer, but we kind of hit the same time.
Guest:I had further ground to make up to get to where Leo started from, I think.
Marc:But it doesn't seem like you guys have to do this where where, you know, you read a script and, you know, like, you know, this is going to stink.
Marc:But it's only four weeks.
Marc:And it's it's it's going to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's going to get me the right thing.
Guest:Whatever.
Guest:You know, you don't have to do that.
Guest:No, we've been pretty fortunate.
Guest:We're pretty fortunate now.
Guest:Very lucky fellas.
Guest:Had to do it before.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But yeah.
Guest:You felt that before.
Guest:I just flashed on when we did the first screening of Seven.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, the premiere.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We had the premiere of Seven.
Guest:No one had seen it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And this is the serial killer.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:Great movie.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And the movie ended.
Guest:Was this in New York?
Guest:Yes, it was in New York.
Guest:I think I was there.
Guest:Were you there?
Guest:I think I was there.
Guest:Okay, if you remember, the movie ends, and they just flick on the lights.
Guest:And I look at people, and they just kind of slowly get up from their seat, and no one's talking.
Guest:And then they just kind of disappear from the screen.
Guest:And I remember looking at Fincher going, oh, my God, what the fuck did we do?
Guest:What happened?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What's going on?
Guest:I thought this shit was great.
Guest:I had a different memory of it.
Guest:I remember people liking it.
Guest:But, yeah, I guess that would be.
Guest:Now as you were describing it, I kind of remember that.
Marc:I think that's what I talked to Ed Norton.
Marc:He sort of said that happened with Fight Club, too.
Guest:Oh, we had a great one.
Guest:We had the best screening ever.
Guest:We had it at Venice Film Festival, and they do this midnight screening.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For some reason or not, we thought it'd be a good idea to smoke a joint beforehand.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And we go in, and they put you up in a balcony, and you sit next to the guy who runs the festival.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Everyone's looking at you.
Guest:They clap.
Guest:You sit down.
Guest:It's very formal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then the movie starts.
Guest:and uh first joke comes up and and it's just it's crickets it's dead silence and and another joke and it's just it's dead silent oh no and this thing is not translating you know it's subtitles it is not translating at all and the more that happened the funnier it got to edward and i
Guest:And we just start laughing.
Guest:So we're the assholes in the back laughing at our own jokes.
Guest:The only ones.
Guest:And then at some point, it gets to the Helena Bonham Carter's line when she says, I haven't been fucked like that since grade school.
Guest:And I watched the festival guy who had been squirming the whole 30 minutes just get up and he leaves.
Guest:He doesn't say a word.
Guest:He just gets up and leaves, which makes us laugh even more.
Marc:That's beautiful.
Guest:We had a good time.
Marc:Do you remember the moment where you realized your life was never going to be the same again?
No.
Guest:Oh, oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, a film called Titanic.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Yeah, that was it.
Guest:And after that?
Guest:I just remember, you know, I was off on location doing movies, you know, right away.
Guest:And then, you know, I was in my early 20s already, and I was always... I never bothered to look for a house, so I stayed in my mom's guest room into my early 20s.
Guest:And then...
Guest:And then the movie started to come out or the buzz of it or whatever.
Guest:And I just remember four SUVs outside my house one day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went to like the liquor store to get a soda and there were the SUVs and then they just kept following me.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Every day of my life.
Guest:And I was like, okay, this life will no longer be the same.
Guest:To this day.
Guest:Probably more like Ford Explorers.
Guest:Yeah, something like that.
Guest:Blacked out windows.
Guest:And that happens to this day.
Guest:No, it doesn't.
Guest:Not anymore.
Guest:It doesn't?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:It doesn't.
Guest:Not as much anymore.
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:Thank God.
Guest:Did you do something to stop it?
Guest:Usually there's like this time when you have a movie coming out or you're starting to do promotion where they're sort of on you a lot more.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, I get to... I've been able to escape a lot more, which is great.
Guest:And walk around and... You do?
Guest:Be outside and things like that.
Guest:You don't... Do you wear... I'm a little disgruntled with you now that I hear that.
Guest:Whatever.
Guest:You have them waiting?
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But maybe I don't know.
Guest:What?
Guest:I'm just like trash mag fodder.
Guest:I'm like, I don't know.
Guest:Because of.
Guest:Because of my disaster of a personal life, probably.
Guest:Got a very exciting personal life.
Marc:But you've gotten into confrontation with him before?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And there's nothing you can fucking do about those guys.
Marc:There's nothing you can do about it.
Guest:Like a little Kim said, the paparazzi is going to get you one way or another.
Guest:It's been my motto.
Guest:I figure there's just there's nothing you can do.
Marc:But you've never had to go out with a fake nose or anything like I heard.
Guest:We've tried all that stuff.
Guest:And it's all a failure.
Marc:They always find out.
Guest:I got some good ones.
Guest:You do?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Fake noses?
Guest:No, I got some good getaways that I will not reveal here because they're still in play.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:In terms of just being able to disappear?
Marc:Do you have a stunt double that you work with?
Guest:No, none of that works.
Guest:None of that works.
Guest:No.
Guest:I've had so many people say, let me wear your hat.
Guest:I'll jump out.
Guest:None of that stuff works.
Marc:No good?
Marc:No good.
Marc:I don't remember who I was talking to.
Marc:Maybe it was Galifianakis was telling me about Downey.
Marc:He had a nose or something made.
Guest:There's the Mel Gibson one.
Guest:That's his brilliant mask.
Guest:Kazoo made him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's brilliant rubber mask.
Marc:But then they photographed that, too.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:And then they put him in the magazine with Mel Gibson with him.
Marc:With the mask.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that ruins that?
Guest:He got a lot of mileage off it, though.
Guest:He did?
Guest:For a few years, yeah.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:He did really well.
Guest:He did go out among the people?
Guest:Yeah, and it was just enough.
Guest:It was real enough, but off enough to make someone just want to walk the other way.
Guest:There was something wrong.
Guest:So he just looked a bit creepy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So it was like, that looks like Mel Gibson.
Marc:Oh, it's not wrong with that guy.
Guest:Just make you step aside and not investigate.
Marc:So with this, like, can I ask you, because I've seen the last two movies that you do.
Marc:I watched Ad Astra.
Marc:How'd you do with that one?
Marc:I liked it because I didn't know.
Marc:I'm not a space guy.
Marc:in general you know what i mean and i i entered it cranky strange cranky but but then i realized how was your movie well i entered it cranky did it soften you in any way or just make you crankier no no because i thought like well this guy's really gone above and beyond to work out his dad's stuff
Marc:I just got to make a phone call or drive to New Mexico.
Marc:This fucker went to outer space to get some closure.
Guest:To get some closure.
Marc:When I realized that was just really a movie about, I hope this guy works it out with this old man.
Marc:It was so clearly a movie about, like, I got to deal with my dad.
Marc:It wasn't that space.
Marc:It had nothing to do with anything.
Guest:Like, you just could have stayed home and done a year of therapy.
Marc:Wait, wait.
Marc:Like, Colin.
Marc:But there was problems.
Marc:The one thing I never understood, like, what was his ship doing that was causing all the trouble?
Marc:Did they even explain that?
Guest:I'm not going to explain it to you.
Marc:Oh, you know, though.
Guest:No, I can't explain it either.
Guest:That sounds like Inception for me.
Guest:What happened?
Guest:I have no idea.
Guest:You don't, do you?
Guest:Sometimes you're just focused on your character, man.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:No, actually, I do get involved.
Guest:But when it came to Chris Nolan and his mind and how that was all pieced together, everyone was trying to constantly put that puzzle together.
Marc:Did anyone ever succeed?
Marc:I can't remember if it made sense ultimately.
Marc:Did it?
Guest:Yeah, it depends on the eye of the beholder, I guess.
Marc:My producer has a weird question I've got to ask you about this movie.
Marc:He told me this.
Marc:He said, the only thing I'm hung up on, man, you've got to ask him.
Marc:He said, he wanted me to ask you if your character actually got...
Marc:The part in the great escape and was fired.
Marc:No, was that a fantasy that you were thinking?
Guest:No, it was a fantasy.
Guest:It was it was.
Guest:Well, we actually had this whole section that actually couldn't was talking earlier about the fact that he had a four and a half hour cut.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the movie that you see, I mean, this is all from the mind of Quentin Tarantino.
Guest:And there's so many other sections that I think he had to take out to sort of drive the story along.
Guest:But there was this great moment with Al Pacino.
Guest:And I spent like.
Guest:three weeks with Al Pacino at Musso and Frank's one-on-one doing this sort of whole history of Rick Dalton's career what he's been through the state of the movie industry the state of our culture right this sort of I could have been somebody could have been a contender almost got you know the great escape but I was the third guy on the list had you know McQueen dropped out and this and this I could have been that guy yeah
Guest:So we kind of put it in to the Timothy Oliphant scene where we start talking about our careers.
Guest:And then there's this kind of flash of Rick as that, as McQueen, and how Rick Dalton would have played the McQueen role.
Guest:Which was the star-breaking turn for McQueen.
Guest:And it's not... Leo describes it as a moment.
Guest:It's like a 10-minute scene, and it's fantastic.
Guest:It is.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:I do hope it makes the...
Guest:It's the bane of his existence.
Guest:He's walking around and everyone knows him as the guy who almost got the great escape.
Guest:And he gives this very sobering soliloquy on how it was never going to happen.
Guest:And stop calling me that.
Yeah.
Marc:No, when you entered working on this part, I mean, it's the actual heartbreak of show business is what you're playing, right?
Marc:Basically, yeah.
Marc:And it's not something that you haven't seen before in other people.
Marc:I mean, we're surrounded by it all the time.
Guest:That's what Brad and I were just talking about in the Q&A just now is how, you know...
Guest:although we've been incredibly fortunate and and and have had a you know sort of long successful career we know this world we know i've grown up around actors that almost got this role or almost got that role we knew we knew the dynamic of of these relationships i mean i've had guys over the years that have been my psych like i said my psychiatrist my security guard you're on location in africa for
Guest:months right they got your back the hard days they're there for you and they really do carry the load so even though Quentin gave us this amazing manuscript on our history detailed from you know the figment of his own I mean right from his imagination yeah we implicitly knew this dynamic in Hollywood
Guest:and this sort of relationship that these two guys had.
Guest:And I think it was weirdly like the first day on set, we just kind of clicked.
Guest:And I keep telling this story, but it's true.
Guest:I remember we were driving onto the Lancer lot, and Brad just improvised this line, and he goes, you know...
Guest:Hey, realizing I have a hangover, realizing I've gotten this bad news that my career is essentially over.
Guest:And he just goes, hey, you're Rick fucking Dalton.
Guest:And as soon as he said that, I was like, oh, that's us, man.
Guest:No matter what the hell's going down, that's my number one fan right there.
Guest:You're Rick fucking Dalton.
Guest:And I'm like, yep, you got it.
Guest:And I go and have a disastrous day on set regardless.
Marc:But that's true, though, because I even noticed that when I was a doorman at the comedy store is that there is this weird kind of people have satellite people that kind of walk around as the extension of their ego.
Marc:There's an ego support system.
Marc:And you see it all the time in this town.
Marc:And then you have this, like, at the center is this completely delusional person.
Marc:Completely delusional, yeah.
Marc:That really thinks they're really doing amazing things.
Guest:Oh, shit.
Guest:I was just calling it friendship.
Guest:But you're so right.
Guest:You're so right.
Guest:Friendship with a paycheck.
Guest:And like Cliff says, hey, you ain't got it so bad.
Guest:You know, I got to fix your antenna today, but, you know, he's not so bad, huh, Rick?
Guest:I mean, that was the thing that I had to, like, figure out about Rick Dalton is what, God, not only what a pessimist, but what a whiner he was.
Guest:And I think that Quentin always had this thing that I didn't quite understand, that he's really feeling sorry for himself.
Guest:Then he meets the little girl who's like, and there was another scene that was cut out about, hey, aren't we lucky to do what we do?
Guest:And Rick just doesn't realize that.
Guest:All he obsessively thinks about is what could have been, he could have been a contender, he could have been this guy, and the whole industry sucks, and the world sucks, and he's goddamn hippies.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And when you went into it, what were you thinking?
Marc:Who were you playing?
Marc:Did you know the guy?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:well he he no i mean well you told me you got that line from somebody who said it to you oh this guy yes when i first started this this guy i had this guy i was i was bitching and moaning like in the mid 90s and i had this guy total freeloader you know like you yeah i would just always see him walking back and forth wearing my clothes using using my dryer you know what i mean and eating the food but he was he was there for me man yeah and one day he had said that to me i was i was bitching yeah moaning
Guest:This is like mid-90s.
Guest:Hey, man, don't forget.
Guest:You're Brad fucking Pitt.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:It soothed me.
Guest:It soothed me.
Guest:You've got to have those guys.
Guest:No, but there was just an ease to, you know, I mean, I'm certainly striving for, you know, an ease in life.
Guest:And there was an ease to this character that, you know, just didn't sweat the small shit.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, I think that it seems like like in both these these roles, they were kind of like even an ad in Ad Astra that you were able to kind of there was a control to it that, you know, I had not seen before that.
Marc:It seemed like you were this guy was sort of Zen and the Ad Astra guy was just sort of repressed.
Marc:But you were able to you were able to quiet down.
Guest:Well, this one, yeah, this one was more, I think Cliff was just a guy who accepted his cards and was all right with it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it was going to be okay.
Guest:Everything was, you know, it was okay.
Guest:Like, it wasn't really against me.
Guest:The world isn't against me.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Even if I get shit on this day, I'll deal with it and I'll clean it up.
Guest:And you can fight.
Guest:Andy, well, yes, yes, that's that.
Marc:You know, you can definitely handle yourself.
Marc:So, is this the first time you worked with Quentin, though, right?
Marc:No, second.
Marc:What was the first one?
Guest:Inglourious Basterds.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Guest:That was huge.
Guest:Yeah, that was great.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Guest:That was huge.
Guest:Do your homework, don't you, Mark?
Guest:I got a list here somewhere.
Marc:Is it important?
Marc:Yeah, you were great in that.
Marc:Oh, thanks.
Marc:Brad fucking Pitt.
Marc:Yes, thanks, man.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Marc:But so you guys knew how he worked.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You were used to the process.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Is he different than any other director?
Marc:I mean, these guys, he's bigger.
Marc:Oh, he's different.
Guest:He's different.
Guest:He's amazing.
Marc:And does he let you riff a lot?
Guest:Yes, yes, yes and no.
Guest:I mean, there's certain dialogue sequences that he has sort of stuck in his mind.
Guest:And, you know, he's a writer-director.
Marc:Right, he's got, yeah.
Guest:So he's got certain cadence and almost a way of saying the line that he has envisioned.
Guest:But then there's other times, like in a lot of the –
Guest:you know the the trailer stuff for example where he lets you riff he lets you improvise and a lot of stuff with brad and myself we just we improvised a lot of that too so yeah he's he's keeping you know he's keeping a watchful eye on it yeah his i do i've found that his stuff there's a
Guest:very specific music to it i only found it with the coen brothers as well that if you start real tight with that shit you start well they're not militant about i'm just saying if the actor starts interjecting us and does and yeah right clever little bits yeah he thinks is interesting yeah it usually it usually up the rhythm the music to it yeah yeah yeah um on the other hand he'll throw out lines he's a writer so he'll throw out lines or or give us room to play
Guest:And, you know, honestly, like with directors like him and Scorsese, when you get these guys that are true cinephiles... Yeah.
Guest:And, I mean, world-class, like put them on Jeopardy type of cinephiles.
Marc:Sure, of course, yeah.
Guest:Like name the editor of an obscure 32 French film, not him, the one that got fired.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They'll know that name.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:And I think, you know, Marty's seen every film ever made up until 1980, but then Quentin's got...
Guest:This crazy catalog of not only music, but television and kung fu movies and B films and out of print stuff that, you know, these guys watched movies all day long.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, they are absolute experts at this subject matter.
Guest:So for me, like when, for example...
Guest:I knew this era of cinema, but I didn't know all the type of films that he was referring to.
Guest:And I didn't know the cowboy television shows in Dead or Alive and all these.
Guest:I mean, I watched some of them, Gunsmoke, The Rifleman.
Marc:We saw repeats.
Marc:I mean, you're at the same age as me.
Marc:It was before my time, but I remember repeats.
Guest:So I had to get acclimated to this era of cinema, the era of...
Guest:television at that time yeah guys that almost made it but didn't quite make the television to movie transition and so he gave me this long list of actors to sort of navigate and there was this one guy Ralph Meeker that just like I queued into and I was like that's the guy he's not as bad as the other guys right
Guest:He's got some great stuff in him, but he just never got that shot.
Guest:He never got the chance to show it.
Guest:And so that's how I cued into it.
Guest:I just sort of obsessively watched his work.
Marc:So the meltdown in the trailer, you improvised that, I imagine, right?
Marc:And then when you're playing that, was it in your mind, were you just a boozer?
Marc:Did you have deeper mental problems?
Marc:What did you put in place, or do you even think about that?
Guest:Well, I definitely knew that Rick was a full-fledged alcoholic.
Guest:That was kind of in the subtext of the script.
Guest:And then I added a bunch of stuff that had to do with a guy that was having a full mental breakdown, I think, and what would come with that.
Guest:He's dealing with his own mortality in a lot of ways.
Marc:And what do you do to... This is just a dumb actor's question, I guess, for both of you, because I try to act occasionally.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What do you do in terms of putting a camera... What is wrong with this fucking... It's got to be a cord.
Marc:Let's just start it again.
Guest:Don't worry about it.
Guest:God damn it.
Guest:Just got my admissions work.
Guest:Thanks, man.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:God damn it.
Marc:To stay in the fucking character, what do you put in place?
Marc:How do you put it all in place?
Marc:Are you fully formed in it, and then the cameras stop, and you can have a donut, and then it's like you're ready to go, and then you just remember the guy?
Guest:You know, very selfishly, for me, I'm just obsessively thinking about what I'm doing all day long.
Guest:And what was so amazing about getting to see, like, the final product is to, you know, Brad and I met every couple weeks and we're like, did a scene, a random scene together.
Guest:And then maybe we'd have a week.
Guest:Before you shot.
Guest:And then so he had this whole other dynamic and storyline that he was doing.
Guest:I had finished my Lancer stuff, popped in and out.
Guest:But then what was so cool was being able to see, like, the finished product and see what Brad had created and not even realizing what he was doing when he was doing it with me, this sort of, you know, almost like this Steve McQueen zen.
Guest:I mean, something that was so amazing that he pulled off, and I wasn't even aware of it.
Guest:I wasn't, like, aware of it when we were doing our scenes.
Guest:Well, you were supposed to be self-obsessed, so you're not meant to.
Marc:So you mean you had no idea what his whole other life looked like?
Guest:We all went off and did our separate stories, and Margot too, and it was really fun to see it all come together.
Marc:And how do you hold on to it?
Guest:I don't, man.
Guest:I'm not, you know, you hear those stories like, man, he couldn't let go of the character.
Guest:You know, for three months he was still like, you know, living under the bridge.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:And eating...
Guest:i'm i'm man it's they say rap i am done but even in between scenes though like you're not sitting in your character so you just kind of like walk into a tone or no you do you stay in them you stay in the you do stay in the mode the tone yeah you stay from the beginning of shooting to the end you do stay in a um i don't know what to call it a mindset a padded cell yeah the mindset
Marc:Now, I want to talk to you both about producing before we run out of time, because you're both doing things.
Marc:But neither one of you want to direct, really?
Guest:I have no desire.
Guest:You?
Marc:Not really.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:Why?
Guest:The time suck, man.
Guest:Jesus Christ.
Marc:Six months to a year.
Guest:Two years at least.
Guest:Two years just to start.
Guest:And you're relying on so many variables.
Guest:I mean, the planets really have to align.
Guest:I'd rather do that, you know, spend the time in the studio or with friends.
Guest:But on the other hand, I do think there's so many good people doing it right now.
Guest:I really don't have anything to add.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:What about you?
Guest:Yeah, maybe if there was a story that I felt like only I could tell.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's very interesting.
Guest:When you're talking about trying to create a performance, you're kind of selfishly just focused on you all day long and creating these moments with the other actors.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Just thinking about this story.
Guest:I can't imagine what it would be like to be a director who has a hundred different...
Guest:departments coming up to me every day saying, what color should this be?
Guest:What kind of cuts do you like?
Guest:Do you like this one or that one?
Guest:What shot?
Guest:I would be like, what?
Guest:Leave me alone.
Guest:I just want to have this to focus on.
Guest:It's a compartmentalization of the human mind and focus that I may be able to do at some point, but for now, I mean...
Guest:Let the guys like Bradley Cooper do it because he's doing a great job.
Marc:He sure does.
Marc:You guys are friends, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That movie was something.
Marc:He really did something.
Guest:Yeah, he did it.
Guest:He's got it.
Guest:He's got the goods.
Guest:He sure does.
Guest:And good act.
Guest:He did act in it.
Marc:Well, that's the thing that killed me is at the end where you realize that he's actually doing a Sam Elliott impression.
Marc:That moment where you realize he did steal the guy's personality.
Marc:I'm like...
Marc:Holy fuck.
Marc:Like he put that whole thing into place.
Marc:You didn't know why he was talking like that until he cops to it.
Marc:And you're like, holy fuck.
Marc:The whole accent was Sam Elliott the whole time.
Marc:He stole his whole personality.
Marc:Anyways.
Marc:So you both seem to like produce different, you know, different.
Marc:You seem to take some real risks with artistic stuff in terms of the kind of movies you're getting behind.
Marc:And you have like a kind of sociopolitical angle that you're sociopathic political.
Marc:No, I think it's great.
Marc:But I did want to ask you, why did you get involved with that Jim that Jim Jones documentary?
Marc:Did you do that?
Guest:Yeah, we did that.
Guest:We did that.
Guest:That was crazy.
Guest:Yeah, it was an insane, insane story.
Guest:I mean, like, for some reason, there's been a lot of documentaries that we've been gravitating towards.
Guest:I mean, this really is the era of documentaries.
Guest:Sure, yeah.
Guest:And for the, you know, I just did one with my father called Struggle, which he's in, which is about the whole underground art scene and this guru to sort of Crumb and Robert Williams called Stanislav Zukalski and his whole crazy journey to California and L.A.
Guest:becoming this obscure, it was kind of like a searching for Sugarman, but a sculptor.
Marc:Was this your dad
Guest:It's been my father and my idea for almost 20 years now.
Guest:And we pitched it 15 times over the years.
Guest:But now in this era, which is fantastic, we're talking about the whole transition of where our industry is going.
Guest:I came into Netflix and I'm like...
Guest:So there's this sculptor.
Guest:Everything was bombed during World War II.
Guest:His whole life's work disappeared.
Guest:And he ends up living in obscurity in the valley and then has a resurgence.
Guest:And it's his life story.
Guest:And Ted's like, great.
Guest:Let's do it.
Guest:Great.
Guest:I'm like, what?
Guest:Which has happened.
Guest:And they greenlit the thing.
Guest:And so it's just been so exciting to be able to see all these really cool stories getting financed, quite simply.
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:Years ago you did.
Guest:I mean, because these things used to have to go into theaters amongst...
Guest:Hundreds of others never get the get the play time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Fine.
Guest:They have to win an Academy Award for you to see them.
Guest:Right.
Guest:No, they have to be world acclaimed.
Guest:Now, you know, it's it's a draw to the consumer and millions and millions of people watch these documentaries as opposed to having to go through the theatrical system.
Guest:That's pretty fucking.
Marc:And they're immediately educational.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you learn something.
Guest:But you did the 11th hour a long time ago already.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But way more people would have seen it if it would have been on a streaming service.
Guest:Much like before the flood.
Guest:That's the one where I kind of traveled around the world for three years to every location on Earth for climate change.
Guest:I mean, that, you know, that was that that came in the mind.
Guest:Are you going to be able to stop it?
Guest:What?
Guest:The climate change.
Guest:Oh, boy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're having a tough go of it right now, pal.
Guest:Tough go.
Guest:Is anybody taking care of S. Clay Wilson?
Guest:S. Clay Wilson is amazing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know the specifics of it, but he's amazing.
Guest:He is.
Guest:He is.
Marc:Because, you know, he's had some trouble.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:He fell down.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Between S. Clay Wilson and climate change.
Marc:I'm just concerned.
Marc:About S. Clay Wilson.
Marc:Somebody take care of everybody.
Marc:But you did.
Marc:But oh, wait, you did Richard Jewell, too?
Guest:Yes, we did Richard Julia.
Marc:Now, how does something like that happen?
Marc:Clint is just sort of like, hey, you want to help me out with this?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:The story, usually, you know, you get the rights to these stories, books, articles.
Marc:Oh, so your company did that?
Guest:You start working with producers.
Guest:And then you hope for the right director that can get involved or the right actor to get involved to green light the project.
Guest:And then it's, you know, a go from there.
Guest:So you put that together.
Guest:You were really part of it, your company was.
Guest:i mean very intricately all the p the financing i talked to how the line producing you know ad the lot guy it's really the great it's really getting access to the acquisition of right cool ideas that we get to be one of my favorite films of the year and one of my favorite performances of the year
Guest:He's amazing.
Guest:He's amazing.
Guest:Paul Walter Houser.
Guest:Yeah, I talked to him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What a gem.
Guest:What a gem.
Guest:And then Rockwell and Kathy Bates, too.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:They were great.
Guest:And it's just, you know, some pop and some get found later.
Guest:And it seems like this one's getting a little love, right?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I just think, I think it's one of the greats of the year.
Guest:I adore this film.
Guest:I adore these performances.
Guest:Richard Jewell, oh my God.
Guest:I can't disassociate him.
Guest:And what's in, and that Clint is still, still.
Guest:Still doing it, man.
Guest:Still doing it strong.
Guest:Have you worked with him?
Guest:I haven't.
Guest:I did.
Guest:J. Edgar Hoover.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's amazing.
Guest:He's amazing.
Guest:He shoots quick, right?
Guest:He does shoot quick.
Guest:He does shoot quick.
Guest:And he eats salmon and spinach at every meal, and he's just like a Superman.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:Now, your production company, you did Moonlight, right?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And you did Vice.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And you did The Big Short and Selma, 12 Years of Sway.
Marc:Amazing.
Marc:Wow, that's a great... A lot of Oscar winners, Oscar contenders.
Marc:How do you decide?
Guest:We follow filmmakers that we really respect.
Guest:And, you know, for a while there, before streaming, there was this period where big budget tentpole films, you know, action films were getting made, and then films under $10 million if you wanted to do something risky.
Guest:And there was this whole gap in between.
Guest:And I found at that time in the early aughts that we were...
Guest:I mean, we first got in just trying to help some of these people we believed in get their film to the finish line.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because there was this empty space, these films that weren't getting made.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that kind of, I think that really opened up with us.
Guest:We've still yet to make a dime.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:You know, we're like, remember Walter Cronkite's CBS?
Guest:You know, they only had to make 1% to keep the lights on.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:In fact, news was much better than because of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, we're kind of like that.
Guest:Seriously?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Even with those big movies?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What does it take to, why is that?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It just hasn't, it's not my forte.
Guest:What do you got on the docket coming up?
Guest:A film called Blonde.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which is for Netflix, Marilyn Monroe, Andrew Dominick directed.
Guest:That's so cool.
Guest:And big series with, um, um, called underground railroad.
Guest:It's going to be cool.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, uh, you know, so on and so forth.
Marc:And is that really like, do you see both of you guys?
Marc:I mean, obviously you're still, you know, vital actors, but do you see product producing as a, as a way to sort of like, well,
Guest:i like it because we get to still you know we're still we can be storytellers we have to be a part of stories that we're not necessarily right for right yeah yeah we could be in but we get to put those out in the world i i i'm sure leo feels the same i feel the same pretty proud of the stuff that we get to put out that may not be there if we you know hadn't got behind it in some way all right or our team yeah yeah us or our team what are you guys working on what am i doing now yeah with production or acting
Guest:Acting.
Guest:I'm doing a film supposed to be in March.
Guest:We'll see.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Called Killers of the Flower Moon about the Osage Indian murders in Oklahoma in the 20s.
Guest:It was J. Edgar Hoover's.
Guest:One of his first cases, and it had to do with these oil rights that the Osage were able to acquire and became the richest per capita people on earth and then were systematically murdered.
Marc:True story.
Guest:All true, yeah.
Marc:Horrendous.
Guest:Who's directing that?
Guest:Scorsese.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And De Niro's going to be in it as well.
Guest:That's everybody.
Guest:Are you acting in something?
Guest:I look at it doing something this summer with Chazelle on the silent movie era.
Guest:Oh, cool.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Marc:That's a great script.
Marc:Yeah, it's cool.
Marc:Great.
Marc:What's it about?
Guest:It's just the end of the silent movie era when talkies took over and how it was pretty, you know, it was the Wild West at that time and people...
Guest:who were at the top of that industry were suddenly just put aside.
Guest:They didn't play anymore.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Sunset Boulevard.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Thanks, fellas.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you, man.
Marc:That was fun.
Marc:I'm glad I was able to freak out for you.
Marc:I hope the sound remains intact.
Marc:I have no idea what's going to happen.
Marc:I'm shutting it off right now.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:there you go brad pitt leonardo dicaprio with a nice little shout out to s clay wilson at the end he doesn't get many of those and i don't think he's uh conscious enough to hear it even if he could but uh but it just popped into my head because leonardo's pop is a underground comic guy anyway uh we'll see how they both did at the golden globes that that's going to be information that you've gotten that i haven't gotten as of this recording obviously they're both in once upon a time in hollywood
Marc:And you should see it if you haven't.
Marc:It's really a great movie.
Marc:And now I'll play some garage-y surf-y thing, I think.
Thank you.
Marc:Boomer lives.