Episode 1079 - Paul Walter Hauser
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it is it your first time here i doubt it what's happening is everything all right
Marc:I'm going to talk to Paul Walter Hauser today.
Marc:Yeah, the guy who is the lead in the new Clint Eastwood film, Richard Jewell.
Marc:And he's quite good in it.
Marc:I like the guy.
Marc:I like the guy a lot.
Marc:I liked him in I, Tonya is where I first really noticed him.
Marc:And I was just very impressed with the humanity he brought to such a...
Marc:There's a wonderful buffoonery to the way his characters take themselves so seriously.
Marc:But this is a—I'd say it's kind of a heavy movie, but it's pretty great.
Marc:And he carries the film pretty fucking well.
Marc:And he's a big fan of WTF, it turns out.
Marc:And we had a nice conversation.
Marc:So that's coming up.
Marc:Enjoy that.
Marc:Another thing, it's been a while now since there have been WTF cat mugs for sale.
Marc:These are the handmade ceramic mugs I give to all my guests.
Marc:Our friend Brian Jones makes them.
Marc:He's a potter.
Marc:I don't know where he ended up.
Marc:It might be in upstate New York somewhere, but you can get them.
Marc:I get these mysterious boxes of these mugs every few months, but he's now made some available to the general public again.
Marc:You can go to Brian R. Jones dot com slash shop starting at noon today.
Marc:Today being Thursday, the 12th.
Marc:These are always unique mugs because they're all each one is handmade and he always alters the design a bit.
Marc:I don't even know what these ones look like, but they're going to be available today and they go quickly and they're a hell of an original gift.
Marc:So brianrjones.com slash shop noon today for the new WTF cat mugs.
Marc:Also, tickets for my 2020 tour dates will be on sale to the general public tomorrow, December 13th at 10 a.m.
Marc:wherever you are.
Marc:It's just wherever you are at 10 a.m.
Marc:But the presale is still going on now if you want to go to the venues websites and use the password Buster.
Marc:And those venues are... I'll be Thursday, January 30th, Cleveland, Ohio at the Agora Theater.
Marc:Friday, January 31st, Grand Rapids, Michigan at the Fountain Street Church.
Marc:Saturday, February 1st, Milwaukee, Wisconsin at the Turner Hall Ballroom.
Marc:Friday, February 14th, Orlando, Florida at Hard Rock Alive.
Marc:I think that password is actually Marin.
Marc:Saturday, February 15th, Tampa, Florida at the Straz.
Marc:Going to be at the Straz.
Marc:Straz Center.
Marc:Thursday, February 20th, Portland, Maine at the State Theater.
Marc:Thursday, February 21st, Providence, Rhode Island at the Columbus Theater.
Marc:Friday, February 22nd in New Haven, Connecticut at College Street Music Hall.
Marc:And Sunday, February 23rd, Huntington, New York at the Paramount.
Marc:Go to WTF Pod.
Marc:dot com slash tour for links to all the venues and all of them i believe except orlando the pre-sale code is buster orlando it's marin it's very odd thing i have a lot of good things going on in my life there's a lot of uh horrible things going on in the world but i guess that's every day everywhere not just the world maybe across the street but it's very weird what i sort of hang on to you know it's weird what i hang on to in terms of
Marc:What am I trying to say here?
Marc:I've got to fly.
Marc:I'm going tomorrow.
Marc:I'm going to shoot a few scenes in the Aretha movie.
Marc:The shooting for Respect, the Aretha Franklin biopic I'm in, on my part of it, starts on Monday in Atlanta.
Marc:So I'm flying out there.
Marc:It's very exciting.
Marc:Done a lot of work on the scenes.
Marc:And, you know, there's just good things going on.
Marc:I don't love to travel that much, but I do it.
Marc:It's part of my job.
Marc:But with all the exciting things going on in my life, I got to be honest with you.
Marc:I'm just now getting over my feelings of excitement and elation, almost, I would say, about something that happened last week.
Marc:Like last, I think it was last Friday.
Marc:I'm not sure I told you about it, but...
Marc:I don't know where you live, but here in California, you have bins.
Marc:You have your garbage bin.
Marc:You have your recycle bin.
Marc:And then you have your leaves for grass and stuff.
Marc:That bin.
Marc:But you have bins, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I've taken it up.
Marc:I started to I use all pine pellet cat litter because I think it's more healthy for the cat.
Marc:And you change it more often.
Marc:And I throw it out in the bin where you throw away leaves and stuff.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because it's just wood.
Marc:Just it goes with the other whatever.
Marc:It doesn't matter.
Marc:So here's the crux of it, is that over the years, I've been in this house a couple years now, and my bins, all of them, have gotten pretty disgusting.
Marc:They just get gunk on them, spider webs, goop, glop, things that stick on it, weird sludge.
Marc:It's just over time, the inside of your bins can get pretty fucking nasty.
Marc:And I knew it was happening.
Marc:We all know when our bins are getting nasty.
Marc:You know, both inside and outside.
Marc:I'm talking about our inner bins.
Marc:Look inside yourself.
Marc:Maybe it's time to clean your bins in there.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Clean out your bins.
Marc:Well, that's what I'm getting to.
Marc:I just like all of a sudden I'm like, fuck it.
Marc:It's enough is enough.
Marc:And after they picked up all the garbage, I, uh, I got the hose out and I wheeled them out in front of the house and I just, I washed the shit out of them.
Marc:I put it on jet and I cleaned out all the sludge and I dumped the sludge into the gutter and, uh, I just cleaned out the bins.
Marc:And I can't stop thinking about it.
Marc:I think I've achieved an amazing thing.
Marc:I think there's some part of me that feels like I should be rewarded.
Marc:I get weirdly proud even when I fold my shirts out of the dryer.
Marc:But this bin thing, that was a couple of years coming.
Marc:And it was just so satisfying.
Marc:I can't stop thinking about it.
Marc:Like, look, I didn't get a Golden Globe nomination, no SAG Award nominations for any.
Marc:I'm never going to win an award.
Marc:But every year, I think around this time, I'm going to clean my bins because I think it's a better feeling, to be honest with you, because just between me and myself and God.
Marc:you know, that I've cleaned the bins and now you.
Marc:But I'm just saying that if you wait and then you clean your bins, it's a pretty great feeling.
Marc:But now I'm thinking more in terms of the inner bins.
Marc:How's my inner compost?
Marc:Do I need to use that?
Marc:Do I need to spread that around and grow some better things inside of me?
Marc:Maybe I do.
Marc:Maybe I do, folks.
Marc:My bins are clean.
Marc:So, all right, people, thank you for all the emails about my cat and how you handled your cat's passing or putting your cat down.
Marc:But here's what I did.
Marc:I thought I really thought I was going to have to put her down before I leave because I'm going to be away now for a week.
Marc:People are going to stay at my house.
Marc:You have to deal with this and it makes me sad, but I can't just put my cat down because it's convenient for me.
Marc:If she's going to live, she's going to live.
Marc:At least there'll be people in the house.
Marc:But I called a couple of places that come over and put the pets down and ask them some questions about how she's behaving.
Marc:I think she's going a little senile.
Marc:She seems to be a bit confused and disoriented.
Marc:Sometimes she'll just start talking or howling, not in pain.
Marc:Just I don't know.
Marc:She just kind of lost.
Marc:And she got very excited about the toilet.
Marc:I've never seen that happen.
Marc:She's been drinking a lot of water.
Marc:It's just a kidney thing, man.
Marc:And I just really wanted to be around either for her passing or to transition her into death.
Marc:And now I got to go away and it's going to be hanging over me.
Marc:It's very anxiety causing and sad.
Marc:But like I said, she's still here.
Marc:She's still accepting love.
Marc:She's still kind of it's kind of interesting, you know, and I guess it's not unlike humans, which I have not had to deal with.
Marc:But in this level, but.
Marc:She is definitely not the same cat that she once was, and not at all.
Marc:I mean, she's several pounds lighter, number one.
Marc:She's got no fight in her, and she can't resist.
Marc:She's fragile.
Marc:I mean, this cat was a little fucking fireball of fury.
Marc:I mean, she would pop you with her paw.
Marc:She would snap you with her mouth.
Marc:She was very unpredictable.
Marc:She liked love, but then if you gave her too much, she'd fucking pop you.
Marc:You know, we had a lot in common.
Marc:But now she's sort of odd and slow and, you know, spacey and a little confused and weak and very soft and fragile and loving.
Marc:It's a whole different cat.
Marc:And it's sort of interesting to and nice to experience like that.
Marc:It's sad.
Marc:But but instead of I'm trying to sort of focus on it not being so tragic as it is kind of the transition and just appreciating this this cat that was just a kind of a terror for a lot of years.
Marc:She got a little nicer.
Marc:She got older, but now she's just kind of loopy and fragile.
Marc:And it's a whole different type of cuteness.
Marc:I'll tell you that.
Marc:But nonetheless, again, thank you for all of the advice in sharing your stories and also sharing...
Marc:Some of the places I called who come, the vets that come to do the euthanizing, and I talked to them about where she's at and how do I make the decision, and they were very helpful.
Marc:Both of the names of these places in my area were sent to me by listeners, and I appreciate that.
Marc:I really do.
Marc:I'll keep you in the loop here, but it looks like I'm going to be going away
Marc:putting her down because it's not time, I guess.
Marc:Unless tomorrow she just, I don't know.
Marc:It's just every day, the projecting.
Marc:You just spend so much time focusing on these cats when they're sick.
Marc:I do it when they're not sick.
Marc:I'll look at a cat long enough, I'm like, something's not right.
Marc:Maybe I ought to bring her in, bring him in, whatever.
Marc:But I'm just kind of obsessed, and that's got to be a lot of stress on her.
Marc:It was weird.
Marc:The other night, I...
Marc:i i pretty much like the two days ago she was out of it and like just not well and it was just sad and and i like i went to sleep that night kind of getting resolve around it around putting her down the next day like i i sort of let go and accepted that i'm going to have to do it the next day and the next day she just was zippy and running around they pick it up man
Marc:She knows, man.
Marc:She knew.
Marc:She read my mind.
Marc:She felt the vibe.
Marc:She felt me let her go.
Marc:She felt me make a decision.
Marc:And she realized, fuck, that's me he's talking about.
Marc:I'm the one going down.
Marc:I'm the one he's thinking about letting go.
Marc:I'm going to perk up.
Marc:So for the last couple of days, she's been, not her old self certainly, but up and about, drinking a lot of water, talking a lot.
Marc:She felt it, man.
Marc:They got the telepathy.
Marc:So this guy, Hauser, Paul Walter Hauser, does a beautiful job in this movie, Richard Jewell.
Marc:It's a Clint Eastwood movie.
Marc:And I remember I complimented him on Twitter for his work in I, Tonya, which I thought was great.
Marc:He really stood out to me.
Marc:There's just something about him.
Marc:And then I think he got back to me, or at least he told me in this conversation that he was a fan of the show and it meant a lot to him.
Marc:So it was very exciting for both of us to have this conversation about work, food, Jesus, and a lot of stuff.
Marc:Is there anything else for some people?
Marc:But this is me talking to Paul Walter Hauser.
Marc:And the film Richard Jewell opens nationwide tomorrow, December 13th.
Marc:And he he carries the movie.
Marc:He is the movie.
Marc:He's the lead.
Marc:And Sam Rockwell is right there with him.
Marc:And that's a nice guy.
Marc:This is me talking to to Paul.
Guest:there's this verse in the Bible better is one day in your courts at a thousand elsewhere I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my god than dwell in the tents of the wicked which is kind of a big thing to say but I actually use that verse when I think about great material because I really would rather have a tiny part in something dope oh yeah then like work and be the lead in something I wouldn't even want to pay to see you why that seems like it was one of those things where I'm like oh I'm so psyched just to be here
Marc:I assume that whoever created a show is probably flattered that you would take such a lofty biblical verse that has such profound connotations to apply it to doing a small part on their show.
Guest:I'm not a very learned human being, so I have to use things that I know.
Guest:I know the Bible.
Guest:I know food.
Guest:I know pro wrestling.
Guest:I'm a bit of a Neanderthal.
Marc:Oddly, the Bible in pro wrestling will give you everything you need to get through life.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Tag out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Tag out.
Guest:That's God.
Guest:I need you in here, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You got to run the ropes for me.
Marc:Acting chops, understanding good and evil, understanding orchestrated presentations.
Marc:And then the Bible, you know, you can just sort of...
Marc:If you've got it all the Bible in, what, New Testament and Old Testament, or what?
Guest:I mean, I'm not one of those people who can throw out every verse and is a savant with it, but I've read it twice all the way through.
Guest:It took me a long time.
Guest:In your life.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I did it in a way where you're reading it every day.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Recently?
Guest:Within the last five years.
Guest:I'd say the last five or six years I read the Bible twice all the way through.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:I'm on my third time, and I'm having a lot of hiccups.
Guest:I'm having trouble getting back into it.
Marc:Why?
Why?
Guest:It's that thing of being distracted.
Guest:I think I'm in the most distracted phase of my life right now based on social media, having some career success, not living at my apartment.
Guest:I basically live in a suitcase based on my schedule right now, which is...
Marc:Really, because you're shooting so much stuff?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But that would seem like a nice time to read the Bible.
Guest:And it has been.
Guest:I did a movie in Thailand, and I was sober for 10 months from pot and alcohol.
Guest:I just really wanted to clean myself up a little bit.
Marc:Clean out?
Marc:Did you stay clean of it?
Guest:I did, and now I'm in a place of moderation where I'm not lying to myself.
Marc:Put it that way.
Marc:With both?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Occasionally?
Guest:Just in the morning?
Guest:Just before I go talk to the National Board of Review at a Q&A.
Guest:No, I'm being silly.
Guest:I was sober for 10 months, and that fell during a shoot in Thailand for a Spike Lee film.
Guest:And I did that back in March and April.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:And that movie, I didn't have a huge part.
Marc:What's it called?
Guest:It's called The Five Bloods.
Marc:Oh, I think I just read about this.
Guest:Vietnam vet story.
Marc:Yeah, they go back.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:How long after the war?
Marc:Like, this is a modern era thing?
Guest:It's like it's like takes place in both times.
Guest:And I can't say too much about it because Spike probably wants it under wraps.
Guest:But what I can say is it's it's just like a friendship story where like the friendships are tested.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, there's they're sort of bringing up digging up the the bones of the past, you know.
Marc:Sort of like that movie with Carell.
Marc:Oh, Last Flag Flying.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And who else was in that?
Marc:Larry Fish.
Marc:Fishburne, that's right.
Guest:And Cranston.
Marc:Cranston, that's right.
Marc:Kind of like that one.
Guest:Yeah, it's got that vibe, but more the Tarantino-Spike Lee thing where there's a lot of F-bombs and crazy violence.
Marc:So that's the second time you work with Spike.
Marc:Apparently he likes you.
Guest:I guess so, yeah.
Guest:He showed up to my screening of Richard Jewell in New York City the other night, and I was really almost moved to tears that he showed up.
Marc:Is that a text you get?
Marc:I'm coming kind of thing?
Guest:I just kind of hit him up because I saw he went to Shia LaBeouf's screening of Honey Boy, his new movie.
Guest:And I'm like, well, I'm buddies with Spike.
Guest:Maybe he'd go to my movie.
Guest:So I texted him and offered it, and he said he'd be there.
Guest:That's fucking nice.
Guest:It was a pretty emotional night.
Guest:I had my brother Matthew sitting next to me, next to him as my manager and close friend, this guy Brian Walsh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then a few seats down, it's Spike and his son in the whole movie.
Guest:I can hear Spike doing like whispered commentary.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Laughing out loud during parts or like- Oh, yeah?
Guest:Saying stuff like, you know, just stuff like, oh, these motherfuckers are going to get it.
Guest:You know, like totally giving commentary like you would almost like a horror film.
Marc:So I don't want to say that it's stereotyping, but so talk during the movie.
Marc:Is that what you're telling me?
Marc:That Spike Lee talked during your movie premiere.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I've talked during a lot of things I shouldn't have talked during.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I just think it's nice.
Marc:Sometimes it's just true.
Marc:It's just true.
Guest:Well, and I hold up to my stereotypes.
Guest:Which is it?
Guest:Not, you know.
Guest:being from the Midwest and being the size of two people and believing in both pro wrestling and Jesus Christ, things I can't prove as real but love deeply.
Marc:Yeah, I think that's a common thing.
Marc:I mean, the Bible thing is sort of interesting to me.
Marc:So your faith is strong?
Guest:Yeah, very much so, like in a weird way.
Guest:Like I probably should have more reservations, but I have more reservations about people than I do God, to be perfectly honest.
Marc:Really?
Marc:That's comforting to you, I guess.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I also, I, you know, I, I listen to your pod all the time and, uh, yeah.
Guest:And the, the Danny McBride episode where he talks about how the church turned on his family cause his mom got a divorce.
Guest:I was never the recipient of that type of church treatment.
Guest:And I think that sets you up for success in your faith journey.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If people who are Christians treated you like dog shit, um,
Guest:That sucks and never should have happened, and it probably taints the experience of the Savior because the congregation wasn't emulating the very thing they protest.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, I mean, I just had Tony Hale on.
Marc:He's pretty strong in the faith department.
Guest:I've worked with him.
Guest:I did a movie with him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So do you guys talk to Jesus?
Guest:We're literally like singing hymns between takes and stuff.
Guest:No joke.
Guest:A little tongue-in-cheek, but no, we both love Jesus, man.
Marc:You just know.
Marc:So where does the Jesus come in?
Marc:Is this something you grew up with?
Marc:Yeah, my dad's a fifth generation Lutheran pastor.
Marc:Lutheran.
Guest:Yeah, Lutheran.
Guest:It's like Catholicism, but if you give less of a shit.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:It's not Unitarian, which is we don't give a shit about anything, right?
Guest:I can't speak to that.
Guest:I'm not sure what they believe.
Marc:No, but Lutheran is a very Midwestern thing.
Marc:Came over from Scandinavia type of deal.
Marc:You probably know more about it.
Marc:I don't.
Guest:I mean, Martin Luther was the dude who got pissed back in the day in the 1400s or whatever because people were literally selling forgiveness of sins.
Guest:They were called indulgences.
Guest:So, you know, people were taxing people for their spiritual relief, which was insane.
Guest:So, you know...
Guest:Jesus and Martin Luther, the people we really fashioned the faith after, they were radicals.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Martin Luther was a dark guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, do some reading on him.
Guest:You think you've tortured yourself.
Marc:I feel like he's an anti-Semite a little bit.
Marc:Oh, is he?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:Maybe I'm wrong.
Marc:Should I Google it?
Marc:I've never knew that part.
Marc:Martin Luther, anti-Semite.
Marc:God, I hope not.
Guest:I mean, it's an old story.
Guest:I mean, that's already in my Google, I think, somewhere.
Marc:Anti-Semite resources.
Guest:I got to be careful who I... I'm the type of person who I'm always... I can't be a stand-up comic anymore.
Guest:I started in stand-up comedy and theater, and I don't think I would survive, not because I'm one of these ugly people who's trying to hurt people, but I think I have a lot of those...
Guest:Those brainstorm joke moments like you just had where it's like, you're just joking around, but someone could take that and write the next big internet article about Mark Maron thinks Lutherans are anti-Semitic.
Marc:Luther successfully campaigned against the Jews in Saxony, Brandenburg, and Silesia.
Guest:Well, now let's know the nuance here.
Guest:What were the Jews doing he was campaigning against?
Guest:Probably just being Jewish.
Guest:Could have been a dietary thing.
Guest:I mean, we don't know what it was.
Guest:Okay, okay.
Marc:I'm not defending.
Marc:I'm just a devil's advocate.
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:I think you're innately defending, and you should, because this is your team.
Marc:I don't know the guy.
Marc:I'm team Jesus.
Marc:I'm not team Luther.
Marc:I'm team Jesus.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Look, this isn't on you, man.
Marc:I mean, this is the 1500s.
Guest:Listen, anything my ancestors or your ancestors did to anyone isn't on us, period.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Stuff our parents did isn't on us.
Marc:No.
Marc:A little bit it is.
Marc:No, it isn't.
Marc:We're not responsible for it, but it might have fucked us up a little.
Guest:Oh, I didn't say that.
Guest:That I agree with wholeheartedly.
Guest:All right, I'll co-author a book with you on that.
Marc:I didn't have a dad who was a minister.
Marc:Fifth generation minister.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So your grandpa was a minister?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you know him?
Guest:He was having the family.
Guest:Yeah, I knew him.
Guest:You know what I liked about my grandfather, my paternal grandfather, was that he was kind of relaxed.
Guest:I don't think he was one of these...
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You know that teacher who's looking for you to do something wrong?
Guest:Those are the type of Christians that I'm like, I can't sit in the room with you.
Guest:Sorry.
Marc:Well, it seems like Lutheran... Aren't Lutheran the sort of quiet, passive-aggressive types?
Marc:I mean, maybe I'm generalizing, but isn't it like a lot of the Lutherans?
Marc:It's Minnesota, right?
Guest:I'm thinking... Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin.
Guest:Then they got all these synods.
Guest:That's the other thing with... Synods.
Guest:So when I say Jesus, I'm talking about faith.
Guest:I'm not talking about religion.
Guest:Religion is...
Guest:you know, don't do this.
Guest:It's a lot of legalism.
Marc:The dogma.
Guest:Well, it's legalism, and it becomes theatrical convention.
Guest:Suddenly, people are doing things that have more to do with the roboticized nature of it than doing it organically.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So...
Guest:So with the Lutherans, not only are they their own sect of Christianity, they've then become different synods where you have the Wisconsin Synod, the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod.
Guest:And they all have their own rules and feelings about politics and church.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Which synod do you come from?
Guest:LCMS.
Guest:That's the Lutheran Church of Missouri Synod.
Guest:So you grew up in Missouri?
Guest:No, I grew up in Michigan.
Guest:That was just the synod.
Guest:Once again, see how confusing this shit is?
Marc:Not really.
Guest:It's a little all over the place.
Guest:It spreads over into Michigan.
Guest:I grew up in Saginaw, Michigan, which is by Flint.
Guest:And I have three siblings, a brother and two sisters.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Any of them end up in the racket, the religion racket?
Guest:Yeah, my brother is a Lutheran minister, now sixth generation.
Marc:Someone had to do it.
Guest:That's what it kind of felt like in a weird way, though we both certainly fought against it with our behavior and stuff.
Guest:Is he older?
Guest:Yeah, he's five years older than me, but he's one of these guys who partied all through college, was sort of a Belushi type on this small campus in New York.
Guest:Which campus?
Guest:Concordia University of River.
Guest:No, what is it called?
Guest:That is small.
Guest:It's White Plains or whatever?
Marc:Is that so familiar?
Marc:That's a place.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Bronxville, Bronxville.
Marc:Sure, Bronxville, yeah.
Marc:I feel like there's another college in Bronxville.
Marc:What was that one that used to be a girl's school?
Marc:Oh, fuck.
Marc:Go ahead.
Marc:That's not the name of it.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:Fuck university.
Marc:F you.
Marc:Oh, it was a hippie school.
Marc:Fucking, maybe, I don't think.
Marc:Whatever.
Guest:He became a pastor, but he didn't exactly have the route that one would think, you know.
Marc:So is there a sister in between you and him?
Guest:Yeah, it goes Matt, and then Julia is the second oldest, three years above me, myself, and then Elise is my younger sister, two years younger than me.
Guest:So we had four in about seven years.
Marc:All right, so the older brother, you look up to him when he's partying, doing the business?
Guest:I've looked up to him my entire life, I have, because he's brilliantly funny and...
Guest:And allows himself to be logical.
Guest:He's not one of these fanatical people who can't be talked into things, which I appreciate.
Marc:Malleability.
Marc:Malleability.
Marc:Adaptability or just malleability?
Marc:Are those synonyms?
Marc:No.
Marc:Mark, I had a long day.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Malleability means like, oh, he's not a control freak, doesn't lay a bottom line on you.
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:And I think there's humility in that.
Guest:It's okay to have hard lines on some things.
Marc:He has some acceptance.
Marc:He accepts.
Marc:He's a tolerant man.
Guest:Yeah, and my sisters are just the coolest people ever.
Guest:They're really darkly funny.
Guest:They'll say stuff, and I'll be like, that was brilliant.
Marc:Everybody's funny in your family.
Guest:A lot of funny people, and in different ways.
Guest:Parents funny?
Guest:My parents were...
Guest:Funny and sometimes unintentionally funny, obviously.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:You know, that Christopher Guest mockumentary character type of funny.
Marc:Yeah, but, like, what's the old man, like, what is a Lutheran minister?
Marc:Like, because it's not fire and brimstone shit, right?
Marc:I mean, growing up with a minister, I mean, it's like psychiatrist kids are usually kind of fucked up and ministered kids, a lot of them end up being ministers or just being devils.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think we had a little of both.
Guest:Yeah, if I'm being honest.
Marc:So from the get-go, was your mom working in the church?
Guest:No, she was raising us kids, and we were broke as shit.
Guest:We lived on the street called North Bond Street in Saginaw.
Guest:We had, and I'll rattle it off quick, we had our house broken into and robbed.
Guest:We had our car broken into and robbed.
Guest:We had a gang take over our backyard and play on our basketball hoop without asking us.
Marc:Wait, so that's what gangs do in Saginaw?
Marc:They're like, we're just going to use the hoop?
Guest:Listen, that would be the best case scenario.
Guest:But we were surrounded by drug dealers on our block and gang members, and we had a police dog shot in our backyard by a bank robber on Thanksgiving night in the mid to late 90s.
Guest:Like just crazy stuff, dude.
Guest:It was a weird upbringing where Sunday morning we were singing Joyful Joyful and eating donut holes.
Guest:And then Monday through Saturday, it's like I'm hearing my neighbor kick out her boyfriend at 5 in the morning and cuss him out.
Marc:Isn't that great to sort of be able to eavesdrop on that stuff?
Marc:I remember my girlfriend years ago in Somerville lived across from...
Marc:some woman named jennifer and she was always fighting with people on the street yeah who knew her and it was just sort of like a different like males and females yelling up and it was somerville massachusetts jennifer fuck you jennifer it just went on and on oh yeah we had that my whole childhood dude just hearing that shit and just like wondering where it's gonna end
Marc:How does it end?
Guest:But not wanting to get involved because you're like, oh, I can't.
Marc:Hoping no one gets killed.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So it was real chaos, huh?
Marc:Why were you in that neighborhood?
Marc:Was your dad on a mission?
Marc:Did he see this as his test?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I think, if anything, we were in an earning bracket where that was a place we could live.
Guest:But where was his church?
Guest:We were like a mile and a half from the church, maybe.
Guest:So it's proximity.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He had four kids, too.
Guest:It's like four kids on a pastor's salary.
Guest:You don't make anything, dude.
Guest:But did he like, well, now, was it his church?
Guest:It was his church.
Guest:It was called Bethlehem Lutheran.
Guest:And it was maybe five or six hundred people on a Sunday, I'm guessing.
Guest:And that's the school.
Guest:I went to the school and the church.
Guest:They were adjacent.
Guest:And that's where I started doing theater and plays.
Marc:What do you learn as a Lutheran, though?
Marc:What's the punishment situation?
Guest:It's the most Mark Maron thing I've heard ever.
Guest:What is the punishment situation like?
Guest:It's like you just breathed a political cartoon or whatever in the funnies.
Guest:I think more than anything, you are called, you abide by two commandments that cover all ten.
Guest:So you got your ten commandments, but you're really supposed to abide by the two.
Guest:Love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself.
Marc:Those are the two.
Marc:Yes, and you have to believe that- Isn't don't murder important?
Guest:Wouldn't you be showing love to your neighbor by not murdering him?
Marc:Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But what if you don't like the guy?
Marc:What about enemies?
Guest:Well, you know what?
Guest:That's where you create a distance.
Guest:Relationships get difficult.
Guest:Creating distance isn't a sin.
Guest:I've done that with many people who mistreated me.
Guest:I create a distance, and when I see them, I try to be cool.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, detach with love.
Guest:Yeah, and then be there for them if they actually need it versus, hey, can you read my script?
Guest:I saw that you booked a movie.
Marc:Yeah, I see you're in a huge movie.
Marc:Could you help me out, pal?
Guest:You know what I'd rather get asked to do?
Guest:Honestly, I'd rather get asked to move people's furniture.
Guest:I'd rather get asked to help in a real way, not just like-
Marc:know because we all make each other's dreams come true in the next 20 minutes but it's so nebulous when people do that they don't and they don't understand that you're not like it took me a long time to realize it took having some success to realize that there's really limitations to what you can do for someone else right of course but they don't know that they also don't know that you're not where they think you are where do they think you are you think they think
Guest:They think you are Eddie Murphy, and they think I am Philip Seymour Hoffman.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And neither of us are those people.
Guest:We're doing our thing, and our thing is great.
Marc:And we're trying to just hang on.
Marc:But even if we were those people, does that mean I'll attach myself to your script?
Marc:Or I know a friend who can make this tomorrow.
Marc:Even if we were those people, neither one of those things would necessarily happen.
Marc:Correct.
Guest:And it's tough, too, when they give you something good.
Guest:I've been giving real good scripts from three people in the last year and a half.
Marc:Well, then at least you can move it along to somebody.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:I got this brilliant buddy named Mike Targus.
Guest:He literally does that TaskRabbit type thing where he's a handyman.
Guest:He literally puts together shelves for people in Bel Air and stuff.
Marc:Can you get his number for me?
Marc:I need some sconces put up in my bathroom.
Guest:Honestly, I could, and he'd do a killer job.
Marc:It's not a big job.
Guest:But when he's not doing that, he's writing scripts, and I produced a short film with him that we shot in Michigan and L.A.
Guest:We're trying to make it into a feature.
Guest:How did you know this guy?
Guest:I met him at a Key and Peele taping.
Guest:I used to do work with Key and Peele.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was a Detroit guy as they are.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they studied there.
Guest:So I kind of met him through them.
Marc:So back to the two commandments.
Guest:Got to love your neighbor.
Guest:Got to love God.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But that's the deal.
Marc:So you're a minister's kid.
Marc:If you fuck up, what's the old man do?
Guest:You know, I'm trying to think.
Guest:No beating the shit out of the children?
Guest:No, well, that wouldn't be loving your neighbor as yourself.
Marc:Oh, so, okay.
Guest:He didn't beat us up, which was cool.
Marc:Have passive-aggressive, sort of like, how do you feel about yourself?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:He'd give you a stern talking to, and him talking to you felt like you were getting a belt.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Because he's a pastor, you know what I mean?
Guest:Emotionally, that's a belt.
Marc:Speaks directly to your heart.
Guest:Yeah, he does.
Guest:You feel convicted as shit, of course.
Guest:I would say, more than anything, my dad always impressed upon me, like...
Guest:Like, oh, here's a good example.
Guest:I was on the basketball team for the sake of inclusion.
Guest:I was not a good athlete for very obvious reasons.
Marc:And I had a- For the sake of inclusion, what do you mean?
Marc:They had you on as a charity case?
Marc:Yeah, very much so.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, I was the guy.
Guest:They're like, I guess you're a power forward.
Guest:You get to use the word power.
Guest:You're very powerful.
Guest:I'd like you to powerfully sit on the bench, please.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They, you know, I had a thing where I mouthed off to a ref where I kind of acted crummy.
Guest:I was just being a crummy 13-year-old brat, you know, on the court, making a show of something.
Guest:It didn't matter.
Guest:And my parents blew up at me.
Guest:I'll never forget being in the kitchen.
Guest:I had to be younger.
Guest:It was our old house, so I was maybe 12.
Guest:And they kind of told me, they're like, that's not how you behave.
Yeah.
Guest:You embarrassed us.
Guest:You embarrassed yourself.
Guest:And we know we have tickets to take you to pro wrestling for your birthday.
Guest:But they're like, maybe we just won't go.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So they're like ready to take away my favorite thing in the world.
Marc:And lay the guilt on pretty heavy.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:So like it's on you now to beat the shit out of yourself till you come to your senses.
Guest:I think I would have done that regardless of my parents.
Guest:I'm a mess, man.
Guest:I'm just starting to get into that good pocket of normal daily self-love and also de-escalating all the stuff I used to bloviate and cry over and stuff.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I've spent way too much time being mean to myself.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And trying to be really nice to everybody else.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Marc:I'm going to pull both back a little.
Marc:Well, I guess those devices or those things that were innate in you certainly came to play in this role in Richard Jewell.
Guest:100%.
Guest:100%.
Guest:All the characters I've played have a piece of me, whether I like to admit that or not.
Marc:I like this.
Marc:Between Jewell and what was the guy's name in I, Tonya?
Marc:Sean Eckhart.
Marc:There's a sort of kind of elevated sense of self.
Yeah.
Guest:If you unpack that, that's interesting.
Guest:Elevated sense of self.
Marc:Yeah, self-importance to both of them.
Marc:Oh, sure.
Marc:A bit of a mission, right?
Marc:Everybody else looks ridiculous.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that goes back to that Christopher Guest mockumentary character.
Marc:But they're very earnest about their sense of self, which is inflated and ridiculous.
Guest:Well, and once again, for the right reasons.
Guest:Sean Eckhart was never doing it for the right reasons.
Guest:Richard Jewell was doing it for the right reasons.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:They're both empathetic characters, oddly.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:You know, I mean, which is what made me so excited about this movie.
Marc:But also when the first time I saw you was in that I Tanya thing and I was like ecstatic about your performance.
Guest:You gave me a shout out on the Richard Jenkins episode.
Guest:Me and all my friends like texted each other.
Guest:We're like, Maren, Maren gave you a shout out.
Guest:It was like Carson asking you to sit on the chair.
Marc:I just thought it was such an inspired, humane approach to that fucking guy.
Marc:There was a lot of humanity to it.
Marc:It was fun to do, man.
Marc:Because these guys, he was a specific type of confident buffoon.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But he really thought he had an angle on everything.
Marc:The confidence is just so funny.
Marc:When that kind of guy breaks down, it's some of the best comedy in the world.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I also love, there's a moment in Italian where I get to shout at Sebastian Stan and I say something like, no one could ever break me.
Guest:And then a second later, it's a montage of me telling everyone it's like,
Guest:That kind of felt like a Walter Sochek, like John Goodman, Big Lebowski moment of like, you know, you're out of your element, Donnie.
Guest:I love having even a smidgen of that in there.
Guest:It was so fun to play, man.
Marc:So where do you think all this resource you have of self-loathing, where do you track it to?
Marc:What are you doing?
Marc:Are you doing more than just Jesus to help yourself?
Guest:Um, I mean, I think Jesus is enough, but the good thing is that Jesus compels you to do other things that are byproducts, which are the things you're alluding to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Whether it's yoga or whether it's therapy or what have you.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:I believe in all that stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I think, I think those are gifts that you're allowed to employ so that you can get past.
Marc:Well, but have you been able to track the self-loathing in particular?
Marc:Why are you so hard on yourself?
Marc:Why are you so, uh, why, why, why, why you let people walk all over you?
Guest:Are you talking to me or the characters I play?
Guest:Because I don't let people walk all over me.
Guest:I've fired people.
Guest:Oh, good.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Okay, you passed that test.
Marc:Why are you so nice to people?
Guest:Because I actually love people.
Guest:I love... You fired people?
Guest:Who'd you fire?
Guest:That's probably not something I want to get real into, but there was just somebody I once fired because even though we were friends, the relationship wasn't like working anymore.
Guest:What was the job?
Guest:I don't want to get into it.
Guest:I want to be respectful.
Guest:And the person I fired, I still to this day love them and acknowledge how much impact they have.
Marc:Was it pre-show business?
Guest:Yes and no.
Guest:It was pre and then post.
Marc:Oh, no kidding.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So you don't let people walk.
Marc:You stand up for yourself.
Guest:No, sir.
Guest:I do stand up for myself.
Marc:So where's the self-loathing come from?
Marc:You think it was just the nature of your parents' hands-off method of letting you feel guilty and process your problems on your own or-
Guest:I mean, I think we all got some angels and demons, you know, and I think like... You know all yours?
Guest:I think there are... I know some.
Guest:Have you talked to your demons?
Marc:Have you sat down with them?
Guest:A little bit, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, legitimately.
Guest:I know you're kidding, but I actually have, unfortunately.
Marc:No, I'm not kidding.
Marc:You have to talk to them.
Marc:You have to tell them... You got to acknowledge.
Marc:Well, you have to say, like, you know, it's not your day.
Marc:I'm going to take it from here.
Guest:And if we could only say it every day.
Marc:You have to.
Guest:I wish I would.
Marc:You know what helps is... Okay, I see you're here, but you're going to have to sit back down.
Guest:And it ramped up with alcohol, though, because my demon showed up when I would drink too much.
Guest:When I have two beers...
Guest:At a restaurant with a buddy, I'm fine.
Guest:It's cool.
Guest:But the nights when I would go a little too hard, it was like I was ripping the door off the hinges for my demons to come out.
Guest:The reason I know it's my demons and not me is because they would say and act in a way that isn't indicative of my actual spirit and who I am.
Marc:Interesting.
Marc:So what are your demons' names?
Marc:Are they the rage demon or the sad demon?
Guest:Oh, rage, man.
Guest:Sad is a byproduct of the rage.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Marc:That's afterwards.
Marc:That's a two-headed demon, yeah.
Marc:Well, the sadness is where it starts, but rage feels better than crying.
Guest:I got some rage in me, but it's never for other people.
Guest:It's always against myself.
Guest:But like I said, I genuinely am getting better at that, man.
Guest:And it helps to have a good circle of friends.
Guest:My circle of friends in L.A.
Guest:is absurd.
Guest:I don't have time for all the amazing people in my life.
Guest:It's absurd how many sweet pick-up from LAX, text me and say, how can I pray for you today type of people I have in my life.
Guest:It's weird, man.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:You know you can take a car from LAX.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:That's my example because back in the day, the buddy would pick you up.
Marc:That's the guy.
Marc:It's a big damn deal.
Marc:Yeah, that's like the guy.
Marc:You've got your back in nom.
Guest:But those are the people who I would have their back in the veritable nom.
Marc:Sure, sure.
Marc:Yeah, you'd go get them at LAX.
Guest:Who do you have from back in the day?
Guest:Because I've heard all the beef about the people who weren't there for you by listening to the show.
Guest:Who was there for you the whole way through?
Marc:Oh, who are my old friends?
Guest:Yeah, who like freaking would show up and sit with you at the diner for three hours.
Marc:Well, I mean, there's been guys who did that.
Marc:Ryan Singer was a dude who sat with me, literally sat with me at a diner on my 50th birthday because I couldn't go to my house because I was waiting for a woman to move out of it.
Guest:Oh, that's yeah, that's tough.
Marc:Yeah, that he was there for me.
Marc:My buddy Jerry Stahl is always pretty solid.
Marc:We go back a few years and then their old, old friends like Jack Boulware up in San Francisco, Sam Lipsight, New York, Jimmy Loftus at a Boston area.
Marc:These are guys that I go way back with.
Marc:John Daniel that I met.
Marc:I don't need to call in too many favors generally, and I'm kind of reserved about asking for help.
Marc:But Steve Danziger is another guy who I go back about 10, 15 years with.
Marc:So I got guys.
Marc:Dave Stebbins in Florida.
Marc:There's some dudes that know me pretty deeply and I can go to.
Guest:You're eliciting some smiles, some good feelings just by saying those names, I'm sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm going to do it too.
Guest:I'm going to steal a moment and just say Peter Hins is the guy I moved to Los Angeles with who's still my best friend and just came to the Richard Jewell premiere with me.
Guest:My buddy Caleb Wall is a cinematographer who's from Oklahoma and is just a sweetheart who is a good friend and makes movies with me.
Guest:And guys like Mike Targus and all these guys, I mentioned him earlier, the handyman.
Guest:These are the types of people, my buddy Tommy Snyder, who we auditioned against each other because we're a similar look.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But every time we see each other in the audition rooms, it was like hugging it out and let's go get a burger after this.
Guest:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:Nothing but love.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I feel like we just did a church-like thing just now.
Marc:I'm sure we did.
Marc:We're acknowledging our blessings, man.
Yeah.
Marc:Hell yeah.
Marc:In the form of people.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So when do you start doing funny shit?
Guest:I was a pretty funny kid, and when I wasn't funny, I was just loud and obnoxious.
Guest:I did a lot of theater as a kid, and in high school, I did 10 plays in four years.
Guest:And I got into stand-up comedy and screenwriting when I was 16, and I did those for a very long time.
Guest:My whole thing was I loved everything, and I didn't know what was going to get me into the business.
Marc:You were doing stand-up in Michigan?
Guest:Michigan and Chicago and L.A.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I did the store several times.
Guest:I did places like Formosa Cafe and the Meltdown Comics and
Guest:Were you like a working feature or were you just- I was doing a bunch of bringer shows and not having a lot of success.
Guest:I remember my- That's what you mean out here.
Marc:So let's track it though.
Marc:So 16, you're doing all the plays in high school.
Guest:All the plays, getting headshots, trying to find a local agent.
Guest:At 16?
Guest:Yeah, or like 17, 18.
Guest:I wrote two features by the time I graduated high school.
Marc:And still in Saginaw.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So where are you going to get a local agent in Saginaw, Detroit?
Guest:well yeah detroit or even chicago and if you gotta make the schlep it's worth it because you might get you know so you you want to be in show business oh yeah by the time you're 15 16 you're like this is it obsessed with waiting for guffman a few good men saturday night live my dream was to go to tish school of the arts yeah get on snl oh wow okay get repped by ronda price at gersh i had this all figured out i was like i'm gonna do all these things yeah and then life did not go that way and snl didn't care about my writing packets and
Marc:Really?
Marc:Well, how did it go?
Guest:So did you get a Detroit agent or a Chicago agent?
Guest:Yeah, I had a local agent in Southfield near Detroit.
Guest:I got one local commercial, not much.
Guest:But the break happened when I dropped out of college.
Guest:Were you going to college?
Guest:I went to Concordia University of Chicago in the River Forest Oak Park neighborhood.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went and I ended up getting repped by this guy, Joel Zadak, who was my manager for like 10 and a half years.
Guest:The guy literally repped me out of obscurity.
Marc:So when you're in Chicago, you're just doing stand-up or you're doing improv?
Marc:You're doing the Chicago thing?
Guest:Yeah, I took classes at the I.O.
Guest:Theater.
Guest:Yeah, ImprovOlympic.
Guest:I was doing stand-up everywhere, ImprovOlympic.
Marc:Zany's and the places.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:I auditioned for Last Comic Standing.
Guest:I auditioned for Jamie Masada, who tore me a new asshole and treated me.
Marc:Fuck that guy.
Guest:Fuck him.
Guest:He told me he was like- Sorry, that's not Christian to me.
Guest:I went up to-
Marc:It's all right.
Guest:There's forgiveness, bro.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I went up to his room to get notes and he looks at me and he goes, just come back in three weeks.
Guest:And I was like, I had a horrible day working at a Starbucks in Rosemont.
Guest:And my buddy Chris Archangeli drove me in the pouring rain to go to this...
Guest:This requested audition.
Guest:They requested I auditioned.
Guest:So someone saw me and thought I was funny.
Guest:At the Laugh Factory.
Guest:Yeah, and told Jamie or someone underneath him.
Guest:So I go to the Laugh Factory after a 10-hour day at Starbucks.
Guest:I'm walking in the rain.
Guest:I show up.
Guest:I do my set.
Guest:And it's in front of like 13 other comics.
Guest:I'm like, this isn't even an audience.
Guest:How am I supposed to kill in front of 13 comics?
Marc:What was your act like?
Guest:Oh, it was a hodgepodge.
Guest:Very unpolished.
Marc:A few jokes, a couple stories.
Guest:And a lot of characters, like the way Galifianakis would do character bits.
Guest:I had a bit where I used to get the biggest laugh when I would say, I'd say, I wish I was Hispanic and a realtor so that I could start a business called What Up Homes.
Guest:And like dumb jokes like that got big laughs.
Guest:And I go up and talk to him and Jamie goes to come back in three weeks.
Guest:I said, can you give me notes or anything I should change since I'm coming back?
Guest:And he goes, it just, it felt like some SNL audition that somebody wrote for you.
Guest:And I go, okay, well, I know that, but how do you get to that?
Guest:What can I change?
Guest:And he goes, just come back in three weeks.
Guest:And he circles the data on a piece of paper, and I go, okay.
Guest:And then trying to be a good student, I go, oh, when I come back, it'll be way better, I promise, or something.
Guest:And he goes, you're full of shit.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And so I walked out and got a 30 rack of beer, got drunk at my buddy's place.
Guest:What's a 30 rack?
Guest:Oh, like, you know, the big fat 30 rack of cans.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Cheap.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Basement beer.
Guest:You got fucked up?
Guest:Yeah, because I was just so, I was distraught.
Guest:I was like, this is, you know, this is, I don't know.
Guest:It was me reaching for a moment and just getting pummeled, which happened a lot, by the way.
Marc:Well, it's show business coming up, right?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, so many scripts I wrote for people that I developed, and then they either unattached themselves after a year.
Marc:Wait, so you're doing the stand-up, and this was in Chicago before you even come out here.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you're also writing at that time?
Marc:I'm writing, and this guy, Joel Zanuck.
Guest:Movies and TV.
Guest:I'm doing sketch comedy packets, movies, and TV.
Marc:You're gunning for it.
Guest:Yeah, big time.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm putting in the work.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So this guy, Joel Zadak, who worked at Principato Young, still is there.
Guest:They changed their name.
Guest:But he repped me from the age of 20.
Guest:So he repped me like when I had nothing but two.
Marc:He signed you in Chicago?
Guest:No, in Michigan before I even went to Chicago.
Guest:No shit.
Guest:I just sent my query letter and a bunch of materials to different companies.
Marc:What did you learn about all this query letter business and sending stuff to companies?
Guest:Immersion, man.
Guest:This is all I did.
Guest:I wasn't getting laid in high school.
Guest:I was watching Sidney Lumet films and memorizing the dialogue in A Few Good Men.
Guest:I was popular, but I wasn't cool.
Marc:What's your favorite chunk of a dialogue in A Few Good Men?
Guest:Oh, goodness.
Guest:I actually recorded this for this woman, Joy Zepeda, who worked with Jack Nicholson for years, and she sent it to him.
Guest:I believe the speech goes, and I won't get it perfect, but he goes, you want answers?
Guest:And Cruz says, I think I'm going to tell her.
Guest:You want answers?
Guest:I want the truth.
Guest:You can't handle the truth.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Son, we live in a world that's surrounded by walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns.
Guest:Who's going to do it?
Guest:You?
Guest:You, Lieutenant Weinberg?
Guest:I have a responsibility more important than you can possibly fathom.
Guest:You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines.
Guest:You have that luxury.
Guest:You have the luxury of not knowing what I know, that Santiago's death, while tragic and incomprehensible to you, saved lives.
Guest:You don't want to know the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall.
Guest:You need me on that wall.
Guest:We use words like code, honor, loyalty.
Guest:We use these words as the backbone for a life spent defending something.
Guest:You use them as a punchline.
Guest:I have neither the time nor the inclination to argue with the man who rests under the blanket of the freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.
Guest:I would rather you just say thank you and been on your way.
Guest:Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand the post.
Guest:Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
Guest:But that, I mean, I literally sat in front of the TV or the tape recorder at 13.
Marc:And she sent it to Nicholson?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:When he was 13?
Guest:No, she sent it to him while we were in the hair and makeup trailer and Richard Jewell because Nicholson's a big fan of Rockwell.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:So Rockwell...
Guest:He got on the phone with Rockwell.
Guest:Joy gives him the phone and she goes, it's Jack.
Guest:And Sam just goes like a little kid named Santa.
Guest:And Sam leaves the room for a minute and a half, talks to Jack.
Guest:Jack loved his work on Fosse Verdon.
Guest:And then Sam walks back in just like in another dimension.
Guest:And we start talking about Jack and I tell her how much I loved A Few Good Men.
Guest:And then I memorize that speech.
Guest:She goes, we'll do it on camera and we'll send it to Jack.
Guest:It was probably the same reaction of a parent watching their kid try on their clothes and walk around or something silly.
Marc:You're so talented.
Marc:Oh, isn't he cute?
Marc:The button nose.
Marc:All right, so this guy signs you, and he stays with you, and you're frustrated.
Marc:You're writing for everybody.
Marc:Did you get to audition for SNL?
Guest:Never got to.
Guest:I made tapes because I would do celebrity impressions.
Guest:So like I could do Norm MacDonald and Rush Limbaugh and Danny DeVito and all these different people.
Marc:Oh, it's your little Rush.
Guest:Recently, Michelle Obama was seen eating a meatball sub on a yacht.
Guest:Then my Norm Macdonald was just like, oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, the funny thing about Madonna is she's filthy.
Guest:And then Danny DeVito, oh, what?
Guest:Hey, Charlie, I like banging whores.
Guest:Can you get me some?
Guest:And I just did all these different, you know, I did all these different characters and I had original stuff, but I never got to truly audition.
Guest:And that's on me.
Guest:You know, you have to commit yourself to one of those theaters like Second City or you got to be a regular at the store.
Guest:You got to have like that big brand of like comedy behind you usually, unless you're one of those viral internet people.
Marc:Yeah, I guess so.
Marc:It's a different time, huh?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I like that Rockwell gets excited about Jack Nicholson.
Marc:I wouldn't.
Guest:He's still a fan like me, man.
Guest:That'll never go away.
Guest:God, I'll never be cool.
Guest:It sucks.
Guest:I would love to be cool and not get super excited about all that type of stuff.
Marc:I used to more.
Marc:The number of people that I have it with seems to be coming less because I talk to a lot of them, and then they become people, and you kind of feel a little weird after they become human to you to keep them on some sort of ethereal plane.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You're also becoming one of them because you just did like seven biopics, right?
Marc:No, I'm just doing one biopic.
Marc:I haven't shot it yet.
Marc:No, I played a supporting part.
Marc:And in a couple of weeks, I'm going to go play Jerry Wexler in an Aretha Franklin movie.
Marc:So it's going to be two.
Guest:But you're slowly, and you don't acknowledge as much because you're, you know, for whatever reason, you tell me.
Guest:But you are like one of those people now.
Marc:I felt that when I was at the SAG Awards for being nominated for GLOW the first year, like having interviewed a lot of them, I felt like I was there for a real reason.
Marc:I did good work.
Marc:And I wouldn't say that I would call myself a great actor or anything, but I felt like I deserved to be there and it was exciting.
Guest:And that's fair.
Guest:I would say you are a great actor.
Guest:Whether you are the most diverse actor or not, or I'm the most diverse actor or not, remains to be seen.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:We have stuff we still have to do to show that.
Guest:But as far as our lane, I think we're both great actors.
Guest:dude well yeah we can do we have a wheelhouse yeah yeah and i but do do you like are you i saw sort of trust dude oh that is yeah i love lynn sheldon man i do too she's killer yeah she's great she's got a good ticker i think i don't know her but i can tell she's got a good ticker yeah a good heart yeah oh yeah she's great yeah
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, that's cool, man.
Guest:Oh, that makes sense.
Guest:Oh, I love that.
Guest:Sorry.
Guest:That's all I'll say about it.
Guest:As an outsider, though, I love that because I knew she was a great admirer of your work.
Guest:And now she's a great admirer of you, man.
Marc:We ended up together.
Marc:It happened.
Guest:That makes sense to me.
Guest:I like that.
Marc:Yeah, it's been great.
Marc:Yeah, she's great.
Marc:And she does great work.
Marc:And that was a fun movie, wasn't it?
Guest:Yeah, that's a special movie.
Guest:That's a movie that more people should see in the current age we're in.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:It weirdly echoes a lot of things right now.
Guest:Got a lot of heart.
Guest:Got a lot of heart.
Guest:That too.
Guest:We need more of that, man.
Guest:I don't think there's enough.
Guest:Things are getting a little too cynical for my taste.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:It's getting dark out there.
Marc:I'm trying not to turn with it.
Guest:Getting dark out there.
Guest:I don't want to turn with it.
Marc:because we all that's what's interesting about the jewel movie and maybe we should come back around to it but uh but yeah well in terms of acting like do but do you find that you're like now that you i mean you carried a movie dude and that's like a big deal i mean that was your fucking movie and that's a that's you know that's a big thing but do you find you know given that you acknowledge that you have a sort of uh uh you have a thing that you can do
Marc:Is there a part of you that's sort of like, how do I challenge myself next to get out of this wheelhouse that I've gotten comfortable in?
Marc:Are you...
Guest:Oh, I mean, I wouldn't even... I have the sort of knowledge of knowing everything I have done.
Guest:So the people who are just getting wind to me, they only have three references, which is Black Klansman, I, Tonya, and Richard Jewell.
Marc:They don't know the high school work.
Guest:But...
Guest:They don't know what I've done in a bathroom mirror.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, but I did a show called Kingdom back in the day.
Marc:I know, a bunch of them.
Guest:Did like 25 episodes of the show.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Playing opposite Frank Grillo, Matt Lauria, John Tucker, all these great guys.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I busted my ass and did awesome work on that show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like if we were on HBO or Showtime, people might have been holding trophies for the stuff we were doing on that show collectively.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I saw it on the resume.
Marc:I didn't even know what it was.
Guest:Yeah, it's one of those things where I know what my range is, but whether or not people allow me to do it or not remains to be seen.
Guest:And that's why someone like Lynn Shelton speaks to me, because a movie like Your Sister's Sister was shot in like 13 days.
Guest:Rosemary DeWitt jumped in at the last minute to act for someone who dropped out.
Guest:I might have to do that someday, where if they're just like, hey, can you play every damaged fat guy?
Guest:I might go...
Guest:No, instead I'm going to lose 45 pounds, write my own script, and see if Mark Duplass is generous enough to play opposite me.
Guest:You know, like, hey, I might do that someday.
Guest:Maybe he could play the weight you lost.
Guest:Maybe he could play the voice in my head.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's the angel.
Guest:The demon will be played by, like, maybe my buddy Ewell Vasquez.
Marc:Right, you lose 45 pounds, and he's the guy that keeps telling you you're still heavy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Ooh, that's dark.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:How about you act in it?
Guest:I'll write it, and we'll ask Lynn to direct it.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We can do that.
Marc:I've got connections with her.
Marc:Good.
Marc:Oh, that's right here.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I can talk to her.
Marc:I can text her even.
Marc:There's even an outside chance that she has texted me since we've been on.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:There it is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She just said- Oh, so I'll say- She said, hi.
Marc:I'll say- Oh, my goodness.
Marc:I'm talking-
Guest:to a big fan of yours oh I gotta shout out my buddy Robbie Pesky who's a huge WTF fan okay he listens to it and makes him like feel good what's his story he's a musician and a college professor in Michigan and a dear friend of mine we used to write short stories together he gave me a he turned me on to Raymond Carver who I now adore oh wow this dude handed me a Raymond Carver book he said go do it he said do it this is you dude
Marc:So how do you get to, like, when do you decide and how do you come out to L.A.
Marc:?
Guest:So I dropped out of college because Mad TV got canceled, and my manager, Joel, repped all these Mad TV guys, and he goes, these guys got nothing to do.
Guest:You want to write a script for them?
Guest:So I wrote a movie for Key and Peele over the course of a year and a half.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And in that time, I dropped out of college.
Guest:I went back home to Michigan, got a day job, and was saving up money to move to L.A.
Guest:While there, I find out that this movie with Ed Harris and Jennifer Connelly called Virginia is having auditions to be background extras.
Guest:So I just go with four of my buddies, my buddy Rick and Pete and Kyle.
Marc:Where?
Marc:They're shooting in Michigan?
Guest:Yeah, we go on the west side of the state by Grand Rapids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we go to this town and we all audition.
Guest:It's literally you take a photo, you write down if you can play the saxophone or yo-yo or some shit, and they say, we'll call you if we need you for a scene.
Yeah.
Guest:But as I'm walking out, I see Lance Black, Dustin Lance Black, the guy who won the Oscar for writing Milk with Sean Penn.
Guest:And so he's the writer, director of the film.
Guest:And I go, I'm just going to go congratulate him on his Oscar win.
Guest:So I walked up to him and I said, almost verbatim, I go, hey, I just want to say congrats on the Oscar for Milk.
Guest:I love the film and I loved your speech even more when you said God doesn't hate gay people.
Guest:I thought that was so beautiful and necessary for people to hear.
Guest:So...
Guest:I just want to say thanks and congrats.
Guest:30 seconds maybe, 40 seconds.
Guest:And he goes, what's your name?
Guest:And he writes my name down.
Guest:He says, we might bring you back.
Guest:There might be a part for you.
Guest:And I'm thinking, well, part sounds like more than a background actor.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I get an audition.
Guest:And I'm auditioning against like 12 other guys from the local area who like work at gas stations and pool halls.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:These aren't guys who like...
Guest:We're watching SNL and Cindy Lament movies and are obsessed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I show up, I get the screenplay, the full script from Joel back in LA.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I've read the script three times and I'm off book and I'm acting like a psycho.
Guest:And so I get a call back with one other guy named Jay Keithius, real sweet guy.
Guest:We go in, we do it.
Guest:And Lance gave me the part and I was like number six on the call sheet behind Amy Madigan and Toby Jones and...
Guest:And so my first movie was just because I talked to the filmmaker and said something genuine.
Guest:And I made like 12 grand and moved to L.A.
Guest:like a month later.
Marc:Nice story.
Marc:It was crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's still crazy.
Guest:I still text him once a year just like, thank you for giving me my break.
Guest:You didn't have to do that.
Marc:Thank you so much.
Marc:That's a great turn of events.
Marc:It's nuts.
Marc:It's nuts.
Marc:So you come out here and then what happens?
Guest:Dicked around, had a year where I booked a lot of stuff.
Marc:No more stand-up?
Guest:No, I was doing stand-up this whole time.
Guest:I was doing the belly room and I was doing different bars and stuff.
Guest:Actually, I used to watch you in the main room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would sneak in because I wouldn't pay to watch the other comedy because I'm like, well, I already performed.
Marc:Yeah, just sneak in the back door there.
Guest:Yeah, and I would watch guys like you and I got to watch Chris Tucker once.
Guest:I fell in love with Brody Stevens.
Guest:I would go in the OG room and watch...
Guest:Brody and that whole group of guys, I just have such affection for because they were always on the same lineups together.
Guest:It felt like they were their own show.
Marc:Brody and who?
Guest:I'm trying to think of.
Guest:I know Barris a little bit because he's from Saginaw, my hometown.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And by the way, I definitely... This isn't Christian.
Guest:I got into the comedy store one time where I just walked up to the door in the OG room.
Marc:In the original room?
Marc:The OR?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sorry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I walk up to the room with my buddy Dave Sorandino, this musician buddy of mine.
Guest:He goes, how much are tickets?
Guest:Because we're both broke.
Guest:It was like 2015 or something.
Guest:And I go, I got this.
Guest:And I walk up to the guy at the ticket booth and I go...
Guest:Don Don told me to drop by said he get me in he goes Don Barris.
Guest:I go.
Guest:Yeah, we're both from Saginaw I was at Kim all the other night.
Guest:He told me to come by so he's like looking at me really skeptical By the way, he did say that but he said that to an audience of people that were at the Jimmy come alive show, right?
Guest:But I said it as if he was telling me personally.
Guest:So he has this big begrudging moment of not wanting to let me in.
Guest:He eventually lets me in.
Guest:We're front row watching Joe Rogan and all these guys toss their asses off.
Marc:Oh, that's fun.
Guest:I do the stand-up stuff.
Guest:I leave for two years because I run out of money.
Guest:2011, I just...
Guest:I couldn't get a job.
Guest:By the way, I applied to 60 jobs in Hollywood.
Guest:I couldn't get a job serving sub sandwiches at Subway, but I was doing a guest star on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
Guest:So there was a weird imbalance of not knowing how to stay out.
Marc:So you were actually getting little gigs, but you did not enough to sustain.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Not a month or two at a time, and then it wasn't enough.
Guest:And I left for two years, went back to my hometown of Saginaw, worked at a bowling alley in a butcher shop.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:After being on TV.
Guest:On TV.
Guest:And people were coming up to me going, hey, I saw you on It's Always Sunny.
Guest:Why are you giving me my bowling shoes?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Did you feel like you needed to punish yourself?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I was getting stoned like four or five days a week.
Guest:I was overeating, eating to excess.
Guest:I was just self-hatred.
Marc:What do you make of that, though?
Guest:You really thought you had no choice but to come home after you're working?
Guest:I didn't have any friends out here.
Guest:I'd only been here a year.
Guest:I booked like five jobs in a year.
Guest:But you went back and got a job at a bowling alley?
Guest:And yeah, and like a grocery mart butcher shop.
Marc:But you don't feel that that was self-sabotage on some level?
Guest:No, not at all.
Guest:I didn't have anywhere to stay.
Guest:I didn't know.
Marc:I was sleeping on someone's floor at the time.
Marc:So you had no resources.
Guest:My buddy Matt Ryan is like, you can sleep on my floor for a couple weeks.
Guest:And I'm like, this isn't sustainable.
Marc:So you really just were broke and you didn't have connections with anyone?
Guest:Legit.
Guest:And I was young and dumb and I needed to be humbled.
Guest:I needed to learn some real shit.
Marc:What'd you learn working at the bowling alley, getting high and eating?
Guest:i learned that that's not the right route you know it's uh it's i think we all have that that moment um but uh but eventually my brother-in-law joe he lent me 600 bucks and said move to chicago get back into your comedy scene and work a job there so i got a 40-hour week job at starbucks i had an hour and a half commute in the morning and at night to get to rosemont from you know logan square wherever i was staying
Guest:No shit.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:But I took classes, and the summer I took classes at I.O., like two of the women there, Vanessa Bayer and Cecily Strong, got SNL in the fall.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it was very inspiring where I was like, holy, the woman who sold me my tickets two months ago was on SNL, you know?
Marc:So that's crazy.
Marc:And I made it back to L.A.
Marc:But you were doing, in terms of a trajectory,
Marc:Towards success you were on it, but you just you just didn't have enough of a network of people to sustain you and life skills I was still very immature and and not the dude.
Marc:I am now and yours was boozy and fucked up.
Guest:Oh, just like it was just like me and my buddy Peter ends like like slamming cans of beer and walk around Hollywood like yelling at people in line trying to get into clubs and stuff like we were just Idiots new Midwest Neanderthals, you know, you know, we don't have life skills
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And so we paid the price for that.
Guest:I definitely did.
Marc:So you did your penance in a bowling alley and then a Starbucks.
Guest:I got gout working at the bowling alley.
Marc:How do you get gout?
Marc:Are they connected?
Guest:They're connected based on behavior.
Guest:I was eating hot dogs and nachos and pizza and beer every night working at the bowling alley.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just had this absurd appetite for garbage, and I contracted gout when I was 25.
Guest:And now it's under control, but I couldn't walk for weeks.
Marc:That's like uric acid in your feet?
Guest:That's exactly what that is.
Guest:Builds up and crystallizes in your bones.
Marc:Oh, it's fucking terrible.
Guest:It sucks, man.
Marc:Okay, so then you did time.
Marc:I did some time.
Marc:Got back to- Starbucks, Siberia.
Marc:600 bucks.
Guest:I talk about it like I was in a war.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I was slinging losses.
Guest:Hard story, man.
Guest:January 2013, I moved back to LA.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I've been back ever since.
Guest:Oh, I worked the door at Flappers in Burbank.
Guest:That was a big deal for me.
Marc:Doing stand-up.
Marc:Because they would let me get on stage.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And there were nights where I'd be doing a set, and Bill Burr or Damon Wayans or someone drops in.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:You get to watch.
Marc:It's a big moment.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For me, it was.
Marc:That's what you were doing, working the door at Flappers, doing bringer shows.
Guest:It treated me well, too.
Guest:I was kind of still trying to get my shit together, and they were like-
Guest:You know, I remember I had a panic attack while working one time, because it was tough for me, because I wanted to be where those comics were.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they're all killing it, and I'm working the door, and nobody knows all the work I've put in.
Marc:I did.
Marc:I was a doorman.
Guest:No, I look back, and I'm finally now, but in the moment, there were times where I was like, man, I felt like crap.
Marc:Well, yeah, how could they not be looking down at me?
Marc:How could they like them?
Guest:Some of them did.
Guest:I remember who they were, too.
Guest:I won't say their names, but there are people who treated me really well, and there are people who did not.
Guest:And what do you do with that information?
Guest:I try to humanize them and treat them well when I see them, but I'm not like outwardly trying to kick it with them.
Marc:Do you pray for them?
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I pray for you all the time, man.
Marc:You do?
Guest:You're on my prayer list.
Guest:You've been on there for like three years.
Marc:Oh, thank you.
Marc:I think it's working out.
Marc:I think maybe you're the reason.
Guest:I doubt I'll tell you.
Guest:I'm not taking credit for that one.
Guest:But I pray for people that when I see something in them and I want them to succeed, because in the past more so, you're better at now, but there were times where I've heard you be really darkly self-deprecating.
Guest:In my head, I'm like, God, I love Mark.
Guest:I hope Mark loves Mark.
Marc:I'm getting there.
Marc:Sounds like you are too.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:But once again, surrounding yourself with people like Lynn, me surrounding myself with the buddies I mentioned, that's kind of healing, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also, sadly, but I think honestly, I think having some success helps.
Guest:Definitely does.
Guest:Then you have new problems.
Marc:Well, no, but I mean, just with the self-esteem issue, like, you know, you commit your life to something and it's a long road.
Marc:And when something happens, when you find success in it and it's undeniable that you earned it, it's hard not to be like, I worked on, you know, I worked hard and I deserve this.
Marc:And, you know, and.
Guest:It does feel good.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And those nights, like the SAG Awards, I was there the night you were nominated.
Guest:I was there for I, Tonya.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember that night being so magical, man.
Marc:It's a great night.
Guest:Everyone's walking around on commercial breaks, talking to each other, and they're giddy to meet each other.
Marc:Yeah, because it's like it's the community.
Marc:It's not the agents.
Guest:I saw De Niro sitting alone.
Guest:No one was bothering him, which is probably a rarity for him.
Guest:So I effed it up.
Guest:But I walked up to De Niro and just said, hey, I just want to say hello.
Guest:My name's Paul Hauser.
Guest:I'm a huge fan of your work.
Guest:King of Comedy is one of my favorites.
Guest:And he shook his hand.
Guest:He did the, did that thing.
Guest:But I had a cool moment with Bradley Whitford walked by me.
Guest:And I just said to him, I go, Billy Madison.
Guest:And he goes, hey, man.
Guest:And walks away.
Guest:But I vowed that every time I run into him from here on out, I'm going to say Billy Madison.
Marc:Screw you.
Marc:That movie's amazing.
Marc:He's always good for a moment, that Bradley Woodford.
Marc:He's all right.
Marc:He's a funny guy.
Guest:He's prickly.
Guest:I like his work, but I wonder if... I think he would hate me, but we'd probably have fun working together.
Marc:So you come back after Siberia and Starbucks, and you're doing stand-up here at Flappers.
Guest:Yeah, I was doing stand-up, working at Flappers.
Guest:I worked at Five Guys, the burger joint in Studio City.
Guest:I was still just kind of schlepping and moving and doing my thing, and then I did that show Kingdom, which- For like two, three years, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and if, I mean, season one, I got to tell you, season one, I was on as a co-star.
Guest:Okay, so this is actually a great story.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was living in a two-bedroom apartment with four or five people in the spring of 2014.
Guest:What part town?
Marc:Say it, Koreatown?
Marc:North Hollywood.
Marc:Okay, North Hollywood, yeah.
Guest:Great town would have been better than where we were living.
Guest:I am living with these people, broke, really unhappy.
Guest:I'm working at five guys at the time and I'm making like eight bucks an hour busting my ass.
Guest:I mean, those people like work really hard.
Guest:They're scrubbing down like fryers and then cleaning bathrooms and taking the trash out and then having to work deal with customers.
Guest:And by the way, a ton of the customers were in the industry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then I'm like, once again, feeling small.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's everywhere.
Guest:You look outside, there's a million billboards telling you you're not in something.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That guy.
Marc:It was tough.
Marc:Because you had tasted it.
Guest:And I already tasted it.
Guest:I worked with DeVito.
Guest:I'd worked with Jennifer Connelly.
Guest:So I, crying in the bathroom one morning, I sat on the floor of my bathroom crying, and I said to God, I go, if you want me to be a preacher or a teacher or a missionary, whatever you want to do, just Holy Spirit, lead me there.
Guest:I'll do it.
Guest:If you want me to leave Hollywood, I will do it.
Guest:This is me saying I will move out of this because I have so much in me, and I said the word, it's dying on the vine, I said.
Guest:Those are the words I remember saying to God.
Guest:I walk out.
Guest:I pass my roommate, Chloe Lanier, this soap opera...
Guest:amazing extravagant actress who's now killing it she she looks at me and she goes good luck in your audition I go I'm not gonna book it and she goes just because you said that you probably will and I go into the audition and I go in to read for this role of this bully in the show and they go oh we thought you were reading for the guy who gets bullied and I go they told me I was reading for this other guy they go would you like to read the size for this other character the victim
Guest:So I go out and I read it for like 40 minutes.
Guest:I come back in 40 minutes later and I just bring everything from the bathroom into the casting room and I cry and I like throw stuff and I like I emptied everything in my bag and put it around the room as props of stuff to throw.
Guest:So I wasn't throwing their stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And after the scene was done, they looked at me just like eyes wide like, holy cow.
Guest:And as I was moving into a new apartment, like a week later, I found out I got the show and it was supposed to be two episodes.
Guest:I had all of eight, nine lines.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I showed up and I'm like, well, how did I get the part?
Guest:By being a psycho and doing a bunch of work.
Guest:So I showed up to set and gave a whole backstory of having PTSD and being on the autism spectrum.
Guest:And I was like punching myself in the femur.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Giving myself Charlie horses and flicking my ear and doing all this weird actor stuff to get into the character.
Guest:And I was improvising.
Guest:So like...
Guest:After the first two episodes, the writers and producers were like, we're going to keep writing you into the show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So the first season I did seven episodes at like $1,200 an episode, but I'm doing monologues and I'm like killing people and I'm like pulling my pants down, showing my bare ass on TV.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For $1,200 an episode.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then eventually my manager, or now manager, he was my agent at the time, this guy Brian, he goes, if you're bringing this guy back, you got to actually pay him.
Guest:And so he re-upped and got me a much bigger paycheck, and I was able to quit my day job.
Guest:And this March will be five years I've been acting without a day job.
Marc:Yeah, now you're in a huge fucking movie.
Marc:Crazy.
Marc:The second huge fucking movie.
Guest:Crazy.
Marc:So you were gainfully employed for a few years on that show.
Guest:Yeah, it was getting me by, yeah.
Marc:And then you did a couple other smaller movies.
Guest:You had some indie stuff, and then I believe I did Super Troopers, NBC Superstore, and this pilot back-to-back in the fall of 2016.
Guest:So that was the best I had ever done.
Marc:I was like in a moment- After the end of- After the end of Kingdom.
Guest:It was kind of coming to an end.
Guest:And while I was shooting this pilot in Vancouver- With Civil Shepard?
Guest:No, that was me just doing a bit.
Guest:I didn't work with Civil Shepard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was working with all these amazing people, this guy, Jake Robinson, this girl, Chelsea Gilligan, people that, like we said, with those friends that are there for you, those kind of people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I'm thinking, oh, if I got to work with these people for the rest of my life on this show and it's a hit, I got it made because I'm surrounded by people that are dope.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then while I'm there, I get the audition for I, Tonya, and I immediately say to my reps, I go,
Guest:I'm not going to get this.
Guest:Are you going to give this to Jonah Hill or Josh Gad or somebody?
Guest:And they're like, go in for it.
Guest:It's a lot of amazing people are involved.
Guest:Try it out.
Guest:And I think it was 13 pages I had to memorize, and I went in and just gave everything I possibly had.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Getting that part was kind of what kicked open the door.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then Black Klansman happened, and then late night I did a movie with Emma Thompson and John Lithgow called Late Night.
Marc:Right.
Yeah.
Guest:Mindy Kaling?
Guest:Yeah, Mindy Kaling, who's freaking the best.
Marc:But this movie is like, this is your movie, pal, Richard Jewell.
Guest:It's hard to believe, yeah.
Marc:It's a very odd, you know, he's made some interesting choices over the last few years, Clint Eastwood, in terms of like, why this guy?
Guest:Why this movie?
Guest:Why this?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And heroic stories kind of.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Heroics.
Marc:Well, American Sniper and Sully.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But American Sniper is a difficult movie.
Marc:It's a difficult character.
Marc:It's a morally tricky movie.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And I think that's where he lives.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And unlike Sully, you know, Sully was OK.
Marc:But I liked American Sniper.
Marc:A lot of people, I think, had problems with it, but I liked it.
Marc:And, you know, and his politics are a little peculiar, a little libertarian, a little, you know, but sure.
Marc:But but, you know, so why Richard Jewell, you know, and I don't know what the criticism has been.
Marc:I haven't read any.
Marc:I don't really I don't read a lot of that stuff.
Marc:But my impression was of the film.
Marc:obviously a critique of the media, obviously a critique of authority, obviously a critique of, uh, of politics to a good degree, but ultimately a human story about a guy who got railroaded, you know, and, and, and, but a guy who, you know, just because he was quirky and passionate and, and, and sort of obsessed with the thing and sort of self a little delusional, you know, became a suspect.
Guest:Very much so.
Guest:And also, you know, something I've been talking about on the press tour has been he had a blind respect for authority and was sort of tribalistic and it hurt him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think all the groups, whether... Tribalistic how?
Guest:Tribalistic in like believing that this group could do no wrong.
Guest:And then even when they did wrong...
Guest:Yeah, tribalism pisses me off so much.
Guest:I despise it, and I think we're living in a divisionary culture where we're so divided because of tribalism.
Marc:Oh, for sure.
Marc:But I thought it's really a story about a guy who was not fragile, but it's sort of like the victim of bullying in a weird way.
Marc:Very much so.
Marc:In a very big way.
Marc:maybe a coming of age story actually because there's that moment of like loss of innocence or a lot like at some point Santa Claus isn't real the FBI isn't real you know like yeah but also you know you definitely had a I don't want to ruin anything for anybody because it's I'm not sure when we're putting this up and I'm sure it's like the weekend it comes out but but I just like how do you approach something where you know what was the audition process like for that didn't audition okay he wanted you
Guest:I just got a call while I was in Thailand doing the Spike Lee thing, and they said, Clint wants you for this movie.
Guest:And I was like, are you sure?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they said, you know, he's convinced based off some footage from Kingdom, I, Tanya, and Black Klansman, he thinks you're the guy and just the fact that you look like the son of a gun.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was like, okay.
Guest:And at the time, I had a TV deal in place to do a miniseries.
Guest:And so I was like, is the movie happening?
Guest:Is this an offer?
Guest:They're like, it's not an offer.
Guest:It's a verbal offer.
Guest:Clinton has to get the movie from Disney because Disney bought Fox and Clinton works at Warner Brothers.
Guest:So I'm like, a couple days go by and the people on the miniseries are like, are you doing this show?
Guest:We got to close your deal.
Guest:And I'm like, well, I can't do both because if Clinton happens.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I passed on the most money I've ever been offered in my entire life.
Guest:at the verbal offer from Clint's producer over the phone.
Guest:And then three weeks later, I was on the Warner Brothers lot meeting Clint, and he's like, give it some time.
Guest:We're just figuring a few things out, but it's going to happen.
Guest:And I was like, okay.
Guest:Okay, Mr. Eastwood.
Guest:Cool, dude.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would have turned down a job just to meet you theoretically, so this is cool regardless.
Marc:It already paid off.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:And was it daunting to – because I don't know how you commit, how you stay in the – what kind of work did you do to –
Marc:to lock into that thing.
Marc:It's your movie, dude.
Marc:You're in every scene of the fucking movie.
Guest:Yeah, it was terrifying, dude.
Guest:It was, like, the whole time.
Guest:I'm like... And also, like, I just don't know how everyone feels when that happens.
Guest:You know, they respect and trust Clint, but there's no way I was... But I hear he works very quickly, and he's not going to give you a lot of direction.
Marc:You know, he picks you for a reason.
Guest:Oh, that was the scary part, too.
Guest:He was like, you know, everyone's like, you're going to get one or two takes at most.
Guest:So my whole thing was just commitment of, like...
Guest:There's a certain type of acting that I fight to do, and I don't perfect it, but I have done it a couple times really well.
Guest:And the type of acting is where you do things that you know are making you look funny or weird or ugly or strange, or they're things you wouldn't like people seeing you do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Picking your nose would be the lazy version of that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So when I approach a character like Sean Eckhart or Richard Jewell, it's like, I'm going to do every take, I'm going to do the version that is so not self-aware.
Guest:that is just so ingrained in as much of what I deem to be reality as possible that I get a little lost and I might not remember what I did in the take, which happens to me all the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or I'll do it and Rockwell will be giggling and he's like, I love that line you had.
Guest:And I'm like, what?
Guest:I don't know what I said.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because you're just kind of in it.
Guest:There was improvising?
Guest:A ton.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:A ton.
Guest:There's stuff in the movie that we just made up in the moment.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:But the way my siblings and I grew up is we did characters all the time with great commitment to make each other laugh.
Guest:We'd impersonate our teachers and principals, even our parents, to each other in secret.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And it was all about the commitment and the idiosyncrasies, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:So when I go to play a character in a drama, it's no different than me doing the SNL character I did in 2012 trying to make a tape.
Marc:Well, it's interesting because... It's the same thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's also interesting that I noticed that...
Marc:Like, in another movie, this guy would have been a comic character.
Marc:But, like, in this movie, you know, he's just sort of, like I said before, he's the only guy that doesn't see himself in the way that everyone else does.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because he's locked into it.
Marc:But, like, because Tanya was shot with a...
Marc:with a comedy lens a bit certainly there was more intentionality yeah yeah and this is not this guy's not a comic character he's an empathetic character and he's like almost like annoying that you know the balance between you know being empathetic
Marc:Yeah, and obviously it's historically been, you know, it's of a fact that he didn't do it.
Marc:So you know that going in, but you're still engaged in this story.
Marc:And, you know, and what would make him a suspect are the things where you... What are the contextual, you know, clues and things?
Marc:That fucking, you know, like I could get choked up thinking about...
Marc:You know, that moment where you I don't even want to I'm not going to place it in the movie.
Marc:So people I don't want to spoil anything.
Marc:But when you're in that in that booth at that restaurant with Sam and you get that information, you know how you played that, you know, with the emotions and the food and that, you know, I mean, dude.
Marc:That was fucking crazy.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Marc:That means, yeah, that means the world to me.
Marc:I mean, so much was being said there.
Marc:Even Sam, the way he reacted to it when he comes over, it was so genuine that that character, given how wrought he was and who he is inside, and I could see that in order for you to do that, you would have had to have some distance from that part of yourself that lived in that.
Marc:Because that was something that seemed familiar to you.
Guest:Yeah, I think it was... Around food and feelings and being hard on yourself.
Guest:Yes, 100%.
Guest:And I knew I wanted to cry while eating the donut because I've done some version of that in my life, genuinely.
Guest:I also think, you know, it's that feeling of, am I really safe?
Guest:There's kind of that bit of him being like, is this really real, you know?
Guest:Yeah, let's not give too much away.
Guest:But, you know, it's...
Guest:I feel like that with this right now.
Guest:Listen, I was in London with my parents doing this Disney movie, and I walk out of a movie theater.
Guest:I turn my phone on because I'm leaving the movie, and the first thing that pops up is an email from my publicist, and they go, you're booked for Marc Maron's WTF.
Guest:And I kind of read it, and...
Guest:you know, a microcosm of that scene, I kind of laugh a little and kind of smirk.
Guest:And then I look at it and it resonates with me that this is someone I pray for, who I'm a fan of.
Guest:I watch his stuff and I've been listening to his show for forever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, oh, sorry.
Guest:And now I get to talk to him.
Guest:It's one of those things where you can't believe how sort of in the moment for Richard Jewel, it's relief.
Guest:For me, it's just like...
Guest:Like, I already got the free car.
Guest:Why is it a... I already got a free watch.
Guest:Why is it a Rolex?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So, like, getting to work with Clint Eastwood, getting to talk to you, getting to, you know, visit Saturday Night Live or something.
Guest:Like, these are the things that I have to take moments where I just kind of thank God and might have to walk out of the room because it overwhelms me.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, sure.
Marc:Well, it's a very...
Marc:If anything that you can get from a life of faith, the ability to experience gratitude is important.
Marc:For sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, and it sounds like that's what you're you're that's what you're doing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I mean, if you have those that have like a weird intimate relationship with God where you kind of put a lot into it the way you would like a girlfriend or a boyfriend or husband or wife, God does things where there are things that align that are a little too...
Guest:Like someone's writing your story.
Guest:And that's happened to me a few times where I've just been overwhelmed by the culmination and the fact that I can map things that if I told you in length how they happened, they'd be hard to believe because they're a little too...
Marc:Well, I think that your journey and sort of like your desire to... It sounds to me that despite whatever issues you've had with yourself and how you treat yourself, that you've always treated other people with a certain amount of respect and kindness.
Marc:And I think that goes a long way.
Guest:I try to, man.
Guest:I try to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just try to remember that...
Guest:Man, we're all broken.
Guest:And that's the other thing is I'm not going to preach religion to people, but I will give love.
Guest:And hopefully that has some impact on people.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:And compassion is tough, dude.
Marc:It can be tough.
Guest:And you can't let the world harden you, you know?
Guest:And especially if, you know...
Guest:If something happened where this all went away tomorrow, like something happened, I would then look at it from a perspective of you got to believe life goes on too.
Guest:This is all kind of fragile is what I'm trying to get at, I guess.
Guest:I'm enjoying the moment.
Guest:It's meant a lot to me.
Guest:I'm trying not to cry when I do every interview.
Marc:I had that problem too.
Marc:It was a period there when the podcast sort of put me on the map where I'd go speak at things.
Marc:I was just crying.
Guest:Tracy let said that he said he cries when he hears his own voice sometimes when he's speaking public and stuff yeah so I mean it's I don't know I I guess at the end of the day you know if if the movie gets nominated for an award or it makes a lot of money or
Guest:You know, that's all well and good, but at the end of the day, moments like this.
Guest:Last night I was dancing with Sam Rockwell at his after party at the Gotham Awards.
Guest:Oh, nice.
Guest:Those moments mean more than anything, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like getting to dance with one of my heroes and be silly and have drinks with him.
Guest:Olivia Wilde and those folks.
Guest:Those memories mean a lot to me.
Marc:That's great, man.
Marc:And I'm certainly honored that you came.
Marc:And it was a great talk.
Marc:I didn't know what to expect.
Marc:And I'm glad that it meant so much to you because I think it was a great conversation that we're having.
Marc:And also, I think this is just a beginning, pal.
Marc:I really think that... I think you did an Oscar-worthy performance.
Marc:I think you really did something.
Marc:It was really something else, that movie.
Guest:Yeah, this is an honor.
Guest:You and Colbert are like Mike Carson and Letterman.
Marc:Have you done Colbert?
Guest:Those are the guys I want to do.
Guest:No, not yet.
Guest:I'm sure I will someday.
Marc:You're going to do it.
Marc:You'll do it for this movie.
Guest:Those are the guys.
Guest:You and Colbert are the guys that I'm like, ah.
Guest:I could disagree with you and I'd still be lapping it up.
Guest:So thank you for what you give to the world.
Marc:So one down, buddy.
Guest:One down, one to go.
Guest:Hosting SNL is maybe the other one if there was one.
Guest:I wonder if that's- Someday.
Guest:I think it's going to happen.
Guest:Yeah, someday if it's the right, I think if there's enough steam behind something.
Marc:Maybe this movie, maybe the next one?
Guest:Yeah, I think they like to bring on people when they have a real steamy moment where there's a lot of hype.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So whatever that'll be, that might be the opening.
Marc:Oh, that would be great.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Chris Farley was one of my heroes growing up.
Guest:So I would love to go on there and just bring some of that physical humor and just break through walls and tables and stuff.
Guest:I would go all out, man.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:I hope it happens, buddy.
Guest:We'll see.
Guest:Thanks, man.
Guest:All right.
Guest:God bless you, dude.
Marc:Nice guy.
Marc:Good story.
Marc:And he prays for me, which I appreciate.
Marc:I actually do.
Marc:The film Richard Jewell opens nationwide tomorrow, December 13th.
Marc:And Paul's amazing in it.
Marc:And the film is very good.
Marc:I enjoyed it.
Marc:Now I will play the blues for you.
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Marc:Boomer lives.