Episode 1076 - Jessica Kirson
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf once again broadcasting from upstairs in my house in a temporary environment
Marc:Soon, soon, I will move down into the newly finished house of my of my of my podcast.
Marc:It's just it's right next door.
Marc:It was a garage and now it's a house.
Marc:And I'm going to move in there and bring my sound panels with me and bring all the equipment out there.
Marc:I got to get a rug first, though.
Marc:Today on the show, Jessica Kurson is here.
Marc:The very funny Jessica Kurson, who I've known forever.
Marc:And now we finally get to talk.
Marc:She's an insanely funny person.
Marc:And she's got a Comedy Central special.
Marc:Jessica Curzon, Talking to Myself, premieres this Friday, December 6th, on Comedy Central.
Marc:And it'll be available the next day on the Comedy Central app, cc.com, and other on-demand platforms.
Marc:She's also got a podcast called Relatively Sane.
Marc:I don't know if you know her, but I'm so happy for her.
Marc:I'm so happy she's got this special.
Marc:And I haven't talked to her in a long time.
Marc:And back when I remember talking to her last...
Marc:She was going out with Stop the Insanity Lady.
Marc:Anyways, Jessica Kurson is here, and I love her.
Marc:It's some Jew-on-Jew action.
Marc:So how'd it go?
Marc:How'd it go last weekend?
Marc:How'd it go on Thanksgiving?
Marc:Is everybody okay?
Marc:Do we need to debrief?
Marc:We should debrief probably.
Marc:Because I talked to you Thanksgiving morning, but I haven't talked to you since, and who the hell knows what could have happened.
Marc:I can be honest about mine.
Marc:I, as usual...
Marc:It took two days to cook, and I did something I don't usually do, and I guess I'll share it with you, is that I'm of the belief that you don't cut any corners, you don't go healthy on Thanksgiving.
Marc:Fuck it.
Marc:If it takes butter, if it requires butter, put it in.
Marc:If it requires sugar, put it in.
Marc:If it requires cream, put it in.
Marc:Put that shit in there.
Marc:One day a year is not the time to prove...
Marc:that you know how to cook healthy.
Marc:Do that every other day of the year at home, not for people.
Marc:And I have very consistent recipes.
Marc:And I don't usually break away, but I broke away this time.
Marc:The potatoes, mashed potatoes, had two vegans in the crew.
Marc:My cousin's kid is a vegan, and my mom's friend's a vegan.
Marc:So I mashed potatoes, and I made them with olive oil.
Marc:Instead of butter, no milk, just mashed with olive oil and garlic.
Marc:All you got to do is cut your potatoes up, boil them with about a dozen garlic cloves, and then strain them, dump it all in, mash them up with like a cup of fucking olive oil.
Marc:This is like 10 pounds of potatoes.
Marc:And just get them nice.
Marc:And then if they need to be sort of loosened up a little, add some of the cooking water.
Marc:And they were great.
Marc:Not only were they great...
Marc:But they fucking went, man.
Marc:I mean, unlike any other mashed potatoes I've ever made, I made 10 pounds of fucking mashed potatoes for 15 people, and there was maybe a pound left in there.
Marc:They were very popular and pretty fucking healthy just because I wanted the vegans to be able to eat something.
Marc:And then I did...
Marc:I did squash, no yams.
Marc:Usually, I do the yams with the brown sugar and the pecans and the butter, streusel on top, that whole business.
Marc:Haven't done that in a couple years.
Marc:Last year, I did some mishmash of yams with some garam masala.
Marc:This year, I just kabocha squash straight up, sliced it up into small triangles, roasted that shit with coconut oil and garam masala on it and a little salt, served the little pieces.
Marc:People loved it.
Marc:But also, with the leftover squash, I did something that turned out to be fucking amazing.
Marc:Now, I eat a lot of kabocha squash.
Marc:I don't know about you, but I do.
Marc:And I steamed one.
Marc:I gutted it, cut it up, steamed it, skin on, and then I mashed it with just a little bit with some coconut oil.
Marc:Just mashed the shit out of it with the skin on.
Marc:So it's like kind of that orange flavor.
Marc:Flecked with the green from the skin, which breaks down.
Marc:And just with coconut oil and a little salt.
Marc:Fucking great.
Marc:Like, I can't wait to make it in like an hour.
Marc:I'm going to make it.
Marc:It's Sunday.
Marc:I'm recording this.
Marc:And everything was good.
Marc:People are getting older.
Marc:And I was sort of in the back of my head, had my cat on my mind, LaFonda, who was here sick.
Marc:And I was hoping she was bouncing back.
Marc:But my mother's getting older.
Marc:Her boyfriend's getting older.
Marc:I kept my anger at bay.
Marc:We did a nice beach day.
Marc:My brother was there with his son who fished a lot, his 18-year-old boy, my cousins, everybody.
Marc:It was actually very nice.
Marc:My buddy Dave came down.
Marc:I met his buddy, Phil, who just got a new kidney.
Marc:That was a nice day after Thanksgiving.
Marc:My old buddy Dave and I got sober about three years apart.
Marc:He's about 17.
Marc:I'm about 20.
Marc:His pal Phil's like 36, had a little get-together.
Marc:He wanted us to meet.
Marc:We were very prominent, important in his life, and we'd never met each other.
Marc:So that was a nice way to spend a couple hours on Friday after the beach.
Marc:A little clarity, a little recovery talk.
Marc:Some laughs.
Marc:But yeah, man.
Marc:Mine went okay.
Marc:Did yours... Before I left, I don't know how much I told you.
Marc:I took La Fonda in.
Marc:Because when I got home from my last trip to Ireland, she wasn't well.
Marc:And...
Marc:She's got kidney problems, but I think she's had them a long time.
Marc:She also had a bladder infection, which we treated.
Marc:But I was only home for a couple of days.
Marc:The vet told me to do subcutaneous fluids, which I did for two days, which is not easy.
Marc:And while I was away, I was hoping she was bouncing back.
Marc:I had the guy who watched my house feeding her a lot.
Marc:And I get home and she's not great.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Not good.
Marc:I don't know how long she's going to last.
Marc:And I know that I'm just happy I'm home.
Marc:And I'm going to be home for a couple weeks here.
Marc:And I can sort of monitor the situation and be loving to my kitty.
Marc:Her brother's old, too, but he seems to be bouncing around on the medicine from the hyperthyroid.
Marc:But I guess I'll know.
Marc:I'll know when to do what's necessary.
Marc:But she's eating.
Marc:She's drinking.
Marc:She's kind of getting around.
Marc:She's hanging out a bit.
Marc:But she's just definitely weak.
Marc:And the doc said, look, if you know, I said, well, how am I going to know?
Marc:And he said, well, if she's got diarrhea or she's like throwing up and but she's not doing that.
Marc:She's just very weak.
Marc:But she's trying and she's eating and drinking and and not hiding.
Marc:So I should wait.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I guess I'll try to give her the subcutaneous fluids again.
Marc:It's just sad, man, because she ain't what she used to be and it's just the way it is.
Marc:I seem to have missed most of the killings or the deaths of my pets somehow or another.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But she died when I was away in New York years ago and Boomer disappeared and
Marc:Well, Moxie, I don't know what happened to Moxie, my ex, took her.
Marc:And, I don't know, Def Blackcat got ripped up, but I don't know.
Marc:I didn't see it.
Marc:I guess I've just been spared that, but I really want to be there for Fonda and Monkey.
Marc:Monkey's doing fine.
Marc:Buster's doing good.
Marc:But LaFonda's...
Marc:LaFonda is maybe on her way out and it's hard because I've spent 15 years with that fucking cat and she was always a trip.
Marc:Always a tricky cat.
Marc:Tough.
Marc:And she's just breaking down.
Marc:As we all are.
Marc:So yeah, it's heavy.
Marc:It's been a heavy day today, man.
Marc:It's a heavy time between Thanksgiving and Christmas, isn't it?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know how to feel sometimes.
Marc:I'm in a thing now which feels good.
Marc:I'm just trying to be happy, man.
Marc:I'm just trying to...
Marc:Let things go and have a shot at being happy and being open and being trusting of another person and letting myself be in it.
Marc:But you end up hurting a lot of people in a lifetime, don't you?
Marc:If you take chances, if you're a free thinker.
Marc:That's the funny thing is like so many of these fucking fake alpha dudes and free thinking fuckers.
Marc:So many of them are locked into some pretty old standards around male-female relationships, around the idea of survivalism.
Marc:Just because you let your brain go and you open your mind up to any renegade strand of bullshit fucking theory...
Marc:Because you don't know the truth.
Marc:Maybe even you weren't educated in the truth.
Marc:Doesn't make you a free thinker.
Marc:You know, taking chances with your thoughts and your mind in a way that's creative, you know, proactive, interesting, honoring your own sense of personal freedom and desire and feeling.
Marc:I mean, that's, you know, that's real free thinking, real taking chances.
Yeah.
Marc:But most people don't want to do that because the security thing, I don't know, it wears on you.
Marc:When you're out there in the world trying to put yourself together, trying to find love, trying to work through things without falling into the standard sort of trappings of regular life or the status quo, you end up carrying a heavy burden on your heart and hurting people.
Marc:But it's going to be okay, folks.
Marc:It's going to be okay.
Marc:It's weird, man.
Marc:You get into your 50s and you start to realize, okay, this is it.
Marc:I better really try to let shit go, engage, open up, have some fun, get a little happiness.
Marc:I used to think peace of mind was enough, but I'm starting to think happiness might be possible.
Marc:Yes.
Yes.
Marc:Yes, in light of all this aging and sickness and death and heartache, I think happiness is possible.
Marc:And also the ongoing spectacle of a world trending towards destruction on an environmental level and just a society of strongman leaders and complete authoritarianism on another level.
Marc:But the beautiful thing about everything that's going on in the world is that there are moments where you can just say, fuck the world.
Marc:What about my heart?
Marc:What about my mind?
Marc:What about my life?
Marc:Who am I?
Marc:What do I do now?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Let's get some laughs.
Marc:Jessica Kurson is here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Her new special, Jessica Kurson, Talking to Myself, premieres this Friday, December 6th, Comedy Central.
Marc:Be available the next day on the Comedy Central app and at cc.com and other on-demand platforms.
Marc:She also has the podcast Relatively Sane, which you can get wherever you get podcasts.
Marc:And I love talking to her.
Marc:I love her.
Marc:This is me and Jessica Curzon.
Marc:It's so weird.
Marc:I mean, I feel like I know you forever, and we don't know each other that well, but there's always a familiarity, a Jew thing, a New York thing.
Marc:Yeah, it's definitely a Jew thing.
Marc:But I remember you from a long time ago, but you started after me doing stand-up, but I remember you when you were younger.
Marc:What do you remember?
Marc:Well, I have one very specific memory about... Oh, no.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I remember you were just all... But you're still like this.
Marc:You're all lit up.
Marc:A lot of energy.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Aggressive comedy.
Marc:And I remember the first time I saw you, I'm like, holy shit.
Marc:This is like the history of Jewish comedy.
Guest:It's anxiety and anger.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:It's like it's all there.
Yeah.
Marc:The anger, the charm, the meanness, the faces.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's all happening all at once.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Nobody like this person.
Guest:Jessica Curzon.
Guest:Well, I purposely have always tried to be different because it helps.
Guest:It works.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:It's a part of me.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, I think you're different in that.
Marc:You know, the energy, the intensity is different.
Marc:But there is, you know, like we all fall into this sort of kind of Ashkenaz tradition.
Marc:Ashkenaz.
Marc:I love it.
Marc:You know, of Jew comedy, you know, some more than others.
Marc:But like I've always been a big sort of I like seeing that.
Marc:Yeah, I do too.
Marc:People who fall into the history.
Marc:I'll tell you the memory I have is that when you were dating.
Guest:I knew you were going to bring this up.
Guest:I mean, I knew this is what you were going to say.
Marc:Do you remember when I found out it was her and I went so crazy?
Marc:It was insane.
Marc:Well, we can say, right?
Marc:Of course.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What was her name?
Marc:Susie Powder?
Marc:What was her name?
Marc:I love you.
Marc:You just said Susie.
Marc:Susan Powder.
Marc:Susan Powder used to be on TV.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And she stopped the insanity.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I loved her.
Marc:And then I hadn't seen her in a long time.
Marc:And then you show up at the cellar and you guys are dating.
Marc:I'm like...
Marc:No way.
Marc:I know you freaked out.
Marc:I did because it was one of those, you know where you're, what do they call it, where you have a secret fan of somebody?
Marc:Would you think I would be a big Susan Powder fan?
Guest:No.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, but she was huge.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And the funniest thing was she was an exercise guru.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I was a house when I was-
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was just so crazy.
Marc:Nothing added up to me.
Guest:Never.
Marc:I was happy for everybody, but I didn't understand how it was happening.
Guest:I didn't either.
Guest:I really don't.
Guest:I went through a horrible breakup.
Guest:I was with someone for 12 years and it was horrible.
Guest:So I was distraught and a mess.
Guest:And it was one of those relationships you get out of and you're like, can I even wash my hair?
Guest:I felt completely like I should have worn a helmet and I was a mess.
Guest:And then I met her through Rosie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:o'donnell on her cruise yeah and she was hot yeah i mean she was hot when you saw her she had dreads and high heels and she was but she was also on the other side of her fame right when i met her way other side yeah because i can't even put the i can't even get a timeline with it no and i don't remember way past when she was big yeah
Marc:Like, I don't remember what year she was big, but I remember, like, I had this guilty pleasure is what it was watching her because she used to make me feel better.
Marc:And she was on TV with the exercise.
Marc:It was this whole stop the insanity business.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I really got a kick out of her.
Marc:And then, like, years later, there she is with you at the comedy show.
Guest:And it was insane.
Guest:Like, it wasn't stopping the insanity.
Guest:This was, like, revving up the insanity, the two of us together.
Guest:Oh, my God, it was insane.
Marc:Well, anybody who's making a living as an exercise guru whose tagline is stop the insanity has got to be out of her fucking mind.
Marc:There's no way.
Marc:Out of her, but so hot, so hot.
Marc:Yeah, she was pretty, yeah.
Guest:I mean, like, that's what she gave me so much attention.
Guest:She was very charismatic.
Guest:So I got hooked in.
Marc:So you're on the cruise doing comedy for Rosie Singh?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I met her and I was like, I hated myself.
Guest:Was she doing exercise on the thing?
Guest:She was doing some classes and talks, I think.
Guest:But she really hit hard with me.
Guest:Like, she really went after me.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And then when I was with her, I was the healthiest I ever was.
Guest:I did yoga every day.
Guest:She cooked me all the shit.
Guest:I was just like, can you just take your clothes off?
Guest:I really.
Guest:don't want to bend over and breathe i this is i'll do it if you're gonna have sex with me yeah but i can't and then that all ended but the exercise continued so it was a mess there was no sex but there was a lot of downward dogs really oh wait so you stayed with her after for a little while but it was you know i i cared about her but i tried to fix her it was crazy you tried to fix her yeah oh boy
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And she was trying to fix you.
Marc:Everyone was trying to fix each other.
Guest:I guess so.
Guest:It was just, it was an insane.
Guest:You both had projects going on with the other person.
Guest:I'll never forget when I took her to the country club.
Guest:You're going to love this.
Guest:The Jewish country club.
Guest:My grandmother's country club in New Jersey.
Guest:And she had an adopted son and he was black.
Guest:He was gorgeous.
Guest:This is the best.
Guest:And Susan is in like with the tattoos, the dreads, like the huge boobs, the great body.
Guest:And she took her son to the bathroom.
Guest:And my grandmother looks at me.
Guest:She goes, what?
Guest:Did she have to adopt a black child?
Guest:There's so many white children that need homes.
Guest:I was like, oh, my.
Marc:So.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So let's let's go back, though, because I, you know, like your jersey.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I grew up in South Orange, New Jersey.
Marc:South Orange.
Guest:It's an amazing place.
Marc:Great memories of Jersey, because we moved away from there when I was in third grade.
Marc:I didn't live there, but I'd fly back, so it was a big treat.
Marc:My grandparents' house, so I'd go there three or four times a year, and it always meant a lot to me, New Jersey.
Marc:I have very beautiful memories of it.
Guest:I think it's an incredible place.
Guest:It is, really.
Guest:People make fun of it.
Guest:It's gorgeous.
Guest:I grew up around mountains and beautiful trees and deer.
Guest:Gorgeous.
Marc:And back when I was a kid, they had the good tomatoes.
Guest:Oh, they have amazing.
Guest:My mother just gave me tomatoes last week.
Guest:You have to try these tomatoes.
Guest:She drives with tomatoes to meet me and give them to me.
Guest:They do have great.
Guest:How were they?
Guest:Oh, they're just huge.
Guest:And they're like apple.
Guest:They're sweet.
Guest:I know.
Guest:The beef, the big beefsteak tomatoes, the Jersey.
Guest:So Jewish that we're talking about tomatoes.
Guest:Non-Jews would not be sitting here talking about tomatoes.
Guest:It's a Jersey thing, isn't it?
Guest:It is.
Guest:It's Jersey and Jewish.
Marc:But there was always fruit.
Marc:The summer was like, you know, tomatoes.
Marc:There was cantaloupes.
Marc:There was everything.
Guest:Well, that's a big thing too.
Marc:The half a cantaloupe with the cottage cheese.
Marc:When I was a kid, my grandma had like diet chocolate soda.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:I know.
Guest:What was that?
Marc:I don't remember the brand.
Guest:It wasn't Dr. Brown's.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:It was some other brand.
Guest:I used to drink that, too.
Marc:They had coffee soda, Diet Coffee Soda.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I remember.
Marc:It's our grandparents' generation.
Guest:My grandmother had seltzer with the thing on the top.
Guest:Oh, it did?
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:My grandmother used to like that stuff, Perk.
Marc:It was like a non-dairy creamer.
Marc:She'd put it in her fucking cereal.
Guest:And Santa.
Guest:Sanka.
Marc:I just said Santa.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, Jersey was very specifically that to me.
Marc:And I guess it was a cultural thing.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Did you do the Florida thing too?
Guest:Because I did.
Marc:What do you mean do it?
Guest:In the winter, everyone goes to Florida.
Marc:Yeah, they went there, but I didn't go there a lot.
Marc:My actual mother's there now, so I go.
Marc:I don't know why they all end up there, but...
Guest:It's God's waiting room.
Guest:I don't know what it is, but I've grown to appreciate it.
Guest:Well, I talk about that a lot in my act.
Guest:They're the worst crowds for stand-up.
Marc:No, I won't perform there.
Marc:There's no winning with young or old people.
Marc:You do a show in Florida.
Marc:It's almost like, did someone make you come to this show?
No.
Guest:I say they get there at like 2 p.m.
Guest:They talk about the seats for hours.
Guest:You shit over there.
Guest:No, I'm not sitting on the end seat.
Guest:You hear them mulling around.
Marc:You're doing those shows?
Guest:Yes, because I have to make the money.
Guest:I don't do them as much as I used to.
Marc:But do you have a Jewish booking agent?
Marc:I did.
Guest:I did all the development.
Guest:You do the developments?
Guest:I did them.
Guest:I don't anymore, but I did a ton.
Guest:I know.
Guest:After each one, I ate a live pig.
Guest:It was really not.
Marc:No, I'm not judging it because it's fascinating to me.
Guest:Yeah, I did a ton.
Guest:But I didn't even come out.
Guest:I mean, I don't say what's really going on in front of those.
Guest:They'll be like, why aren't you with a man and suffering?
Guest:Why aren't you making a man suffer?
Marc:How could they possibly turn that on?
Guest:That's hysterical.
Guest:Why aren't you making a man suffer?
Marc:What are you doing?
Guest:Look it.
Guest:They're all dead.
Guest:We're here alone.
Guest:We won.
Guest:Those people have sex.
Guest:You don't even know the sex stuff.
Guest:Have you heard about that?
Guest:It's like the highest rate.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's because the men are calling up hookers.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:And then they're spreading it to the poor ladies.
Marc:That's what's happening.
Guest:The poor ladies.
Yeah.
Guest:For some reason, I have a burning in my vagina from Samuel.
Guest:I don't know what he... Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because Sam hired some fucking monster off the street.
Guest:Sam hired a Russian prostitute to sit on his face.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Now you get what's left.
Marc:I assume that's what's happening.
Marc:What else could be happening?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:They're just all horny.
Guest:I'm like, God, I don't even care anymore about sex.
Guest:How are these people so... What are you going to do down there?
Marc:You live your whole life.
Marc:You're supposed to retire.
Marc:You get down there and everyone's just sort of, what are we doing?
Marc:You go to the beach.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:They don't go to the beach.
Guest:I don't even think they go to the beach.
Guest:They go to the pool.
Guest:The big thing is like a card game.
Guest:Like their whole day is planned around.
Guest:I have a card game at three o'clock, so I have to rest.
Guest:Oh, Mahjong's the big.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's the biggest thing.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Mahjong.
Marc:But your grandparents went down there?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Both sides went every winter.
Marc:In Boca?
Guest:One went to Boca and one went to West Palm.
Marc:Oh, my mother's in Hollywood, Florida.
Guest:Yeah, that's all the same.
Marc:It's all the same thing.
Marc:I have such a deep, ingrained, weird kind of, I don't know if it's a soft spot, but there's a part of me that ran from my Jewiness, but it's just right there.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I'm the same exact.
Marc:You cannot run from your Jewiness.
Marc:There's no way you can run.
Marc:How far can you run from your Jewiness?
Guest:Well, you know what?
Guest:Jews hire comics.
Yeah.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Do I seem really Jewish?
Marc:No, you can be Italian.
Marc:I could kind of pass because I'm a little waspy looking and I could shut it down.
Marc:Yeah, you can.
Marc:But it just doesn't take much to activate it.
Marc:No, you could totally be Italian.
Guest:Yeah, but I'm very Jewish in certain ways.
Marc:You grew up in a weird big family.
Marc:You don't have a wiki page, but somehow Zach Braff is like... Well, I do have...
Marc:I look up your name, and I'm like, how is he involved?
Guest:Well, I know.
Guest:It's like you Google my name, and it says I went to the premiere of Garden State.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know what it is.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I still can't figure out.
Guest:I mean, all the information was there, but I don't know what the relationship is.
Guest:Okay, I'll tell you.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Okay, so my parents were married.
Guest:I have one older sister, okay?
Guest:So I have an older sister, Jennifer, who is my full-blood sister, okay?
Guest:Okay, and your parents.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Two Jews.
Guest:Right, two Jews.
Guest:And they were never in love.
Guest:They met at Temple University, and it just worked because they were both good-looking Jewish, and the families got along.
Guest:And then they got divorced when I was 13.
Guest:I know, bad age.
Guest:And then my dad married a younger woman, and my mom married Zach Braff's father.
Guest:Oh, so they've both been remarried for, oh, my God, 30, 35 years.
Guest:OK.
Guest:And then my my dad and my stepmother had two kids.
Marc:So I have two halves of with the younger woman.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:OK.
Guest:And then how how my stepfather had four children.
Marc:With your mother?
Guest:No, no, with his ex.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:So I have four steps, two halves, and one full.
Guest:Yeah, he just passed.
Marc:Oh, sorry.
Guest:That's okay.
Marc:Yeah, so he had four kids when your mom married him.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:So Zach is one of them.
Yes.
Marc:And you were 13, so you had a relationship with these people.
Guest:Very strong.
Guest:We're all very close.
Guest:I'm really lucky because everyone gets along.
Marc:Well, that makes all sense because he wrote the Garden State.
Marc:He's the Jersey guy.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:It's all Jersey.
Guest:It's all film where I grew up.
Marc:All Jersey.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, look at that.
Guest:And everyone's a Jew.
Guest:Everyone's a Jew.
Guest:Everyone's a Jew.
Guest:Their mother, she converted.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's the one bit of information I got.
Guest:You did?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That is so funny.
Marc:That's in his bio.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I think he was, what was he, nine?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When they got married and I was 16.
Guest:I didn't go that deep in.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Thanks a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I'm lucky because there's so many problems with so many families and everyone really does get along.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's nice.
Marc:It could be so much worse.
Marc:But were you brought up, so that's like four, five, six kids and then your father had two more?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So there's eight of you that are kind of half brothers or stepbrothers.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, everybody gets along.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's sweet.
Marc:Now, were you brought up religious?
Guest:No.
Guest:I was brought up reform, so I had a bat mitzvah, but I was not- Oh, stained glass windows and guitar in synagogue?
Marc:Yeah, I had to go to- Was there guitars?
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:There's women that are- Religious.
Guest:It's like just smelled like whitefish and a woman's like, yeah, it's all progressive.
Guest:I know.
Guest:You know, the women wear the keypad, the whole thing.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that's how I grew up.
Guest:That's nice.
Guest:It is.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:I got it.
Guest:I had to go to Hebrew school and I hated it.
Guest:Yeah, I did too.
Marc:But we were conservative.
Guest:You were?
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:No, we weren't.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's just weird how these things get planted in your head.
Marc:I just talked to somebody else about that.
Marc:What does that really mean?
Marc:I mean, I'm not religious at all.
Marc:We were never taught that there was a God.
Marc:I didn't even know the point of anything other than to pound into your head that you're a Jew.
Marc:You're chosen.
Marc:You learn how to read this.
Marc:You can sing it for your thing.
Marc:And that's exactly how I grew up.
Guest:You have brisket for this.
Marc:You have cultural Jews.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:I just never got taught about the, you know, you know, there's all this Hebrew and like there was never anything that established a relationship with God.
Marc:Neither at all.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know why it was.
Marc:There was it was around.
Marc:God was around.
Marc:But there was never like I think what the Christians are like, you know, you're bad and you got to ask Jesus to help you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Marc:With Jews, it's sort of like, we don't know what that is.
Marc:Yeah, with Jews, it's like, you're good, just profit from it.
Guest:Yeah, right, right.
Marc:Try, you know, you're going to be, and no one's going to like you because you're a Jew.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:You're going to have to work harder.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Everyone hates us, but we like each other.
Marc:And here's some movies about the Holocaust.
Guest:Right.
Guest:All I remember from Hebrew school is watching Yentl.
Marc:Oh, until you got it?
Guest:Yeah, I didn't even have a Hebrew name.
Guest:I went to the secretary at the Hebrew school.
Guest:I'm like, can I get a Hebrew name?
Guest:She's like, oh, we'll do Yiska.
Guest:I don't even know why.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It was just a name she gave me.
Marc:But your Jewish name is like your mother's Jewish name, and there's a family name.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It doesn't matter.
Marc:It doesn't matter.
Marc:So your grandmother, was she from, your grandparents, were they all from here?
Marc:Or did they immigrate or no?
Guest:No, they didn't.
Guest:But my grandmother was an incredible, my grandmother's the one that told me to do stand-up.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I was 29 years old and she was watching me at a party.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Sitting with my cousins.
Guest:Who was your mother?
Guest:My mom's mom.
Guest:She was like a matriarch, amazing, beautiful woman.
Guest:Could she cook?
Yeah.
Guest:Yes, she was incredible.
Guest:Specifically a good cook?
Guest:Yes, a great cook.
Guest:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:Yeah, she made great chicken.
Guest:So she did the brisket and the chicken?
Guest:Yeah, the whole thing.
Guest:Matzo balls?
Guest:Yep, yep.
Guest:Stuffed cabbage, chopped liver, the whole... Right, okay.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:So like Eastern European?
Guest:Yes, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And she was like, you need to be a comedian.
Guest:Every time you're around people, they're laughing.
Guest:I'm like, I could never do that, ever.
Guest:I would be petrified.
Guest:She said...
Guest:Trust me, I'm your grandmother.
Guest:You need to do it.
Guest:And I took a class.
Guest:I listened to her.
Guest:At 29?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:I was going to school to be a therapist, to get a master's in social work.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My mom's a therapist.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So in high school, when do you come out?
Marc:When does that happen?
Guest:that was very hard for me i met my first girlfriend in college in a jewish sorority this is like a porn i was a senior she was a freshman we were both like you know long hair really pretty jewish like with the clips in the hair that whole era and i swear i don't know what happened but i saw her and i was like she's beautiful i'd never been with the white i don't i didn't i was very confused for a long time yes you mean when you were younger you were confused
Guest:I didn't even think about it.
Guest:It wasn't even an option to be gay.
Guest:About dating?
Guest:No, no one was out and gay when I was growing up.
Guest:It wasn't even, you were like, oh, this guy wears a dress, but he's just weird.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:It was not, you know, it was same time.
Guest:No one was doing that.
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, it's almost like Therese.
Guest:It's like, he's feminine, but you don't think he, you know, does that.
Guest:So, and then I met her.
Guest:And then from that day, we just spent all of our time together.
Guest:We sit in the car.
Guest:Did she know?
Marc:No.
Marc:So neither one of you knew you were just.
Guest:No.
Guest:And we just would stare at each other.
Guest:Isn't that crazy?
Guest:And play music in the car for hours.
Guest:It's like we were falling in love, but we didn't even know it.
Guest:That's wild.
Guest:And I had a really, to this day, I'm the one that has a hard time accepting all of it.
Guest:Like everyone in my life is fine with it.
Marc:With you being out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's hard for me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It is.
Guest:It's because of the religious stuff that I hear and the Jesus stuff and the Bible.
Marc:Oh, you mean because of being a target.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And that people don't accept it.
Guest:It's hard.
Guest:I want to be liked by everyone.
Guest:So it's hard.
Marc:And knowing people who are judging you specifically for that is difficult.
Marc:But what happened with that girl?
Guest:So we spent months and months and months, and I would be jealous if she was with a boy, but I didn't even know why.
Guest:I'm not kidding.
Guest:I didn't put two and two together.
Guest:So nothing consummated?
Guest:No, but then we went home for Christmas break.
Guest:See, this is where it gets sexy.
Guest:We went home for Christmas break, and we were in my room, and we were drinking wine and smoking pot, and we started wrestling.
Guest:There was so much tension for so long.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:I'm telling you, it's this amazing... And she's gorgeous.
Guest:And we were wrestling and all this stuff, and then we kissed.
Guest:And it was unbelievable, but I freaked out.
Guest:Freaked out.
Guest:We both did.
Guest:We were like, okay, that was fun.
Guest:And what happened?
Guest:It was so...
Guest:What happened?
Guest:What just happened?
Guest:And I am going to be burnt at a stake.
Guest:And who are you?
Guest:And this is disgusting.
Marc:Did you end up hating each other?
Guest:No.
Guest:In the long run, we ended up having a relationship for seven years.
Guest:But I was really screwed up at the time because I moved to Northampton, Massachusetts.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Isn't that nuts?
Guest:Because it was so many lesbians there because of Mount Holyoke and Smith.
Guest:And this is so crazy.
Guest:This is where you went to college?
Guest:I sold pot.
Guest:I went to Maryland and then I to come out like I to come out come out I moved to Northampton Massachusetts away from my family that was the plan yeah and then she moved there too oh and I was very much but you weren't in school there no I just moved there just to get away did you graduate undergrad yes from Maryland uh-huh yeah and you met her freshman year
Guest:I met her, I was a senior and she was a freshman.
Guest:So then I had to wait.
Guest:It was a secret the whole time she was in college.
Guest:It was really hard.
Guest:She was there for three more years.
Marc:Oh, and she was coming up to visit you in Northampton?
Guest:Right, we would meet halfway in Pennsylvania or Jersey.
Guest:It was really horrible.
Guest:It's like very secret and I was lying to everybody.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:When I told my family, my sister thought I was dying of cancer.
Guest:The way I told her, she was so grateful.
Wow.
Guest:She's like, Jessica, I thought you were in Terminal 4 cancer.
Guest:They all knew.
Marc:What would you say to them?
Guest:I was like, you're never going to believe it.
Guest:It's horrible.
Guest:The way I set it up was that I was about to die.
Guest:And then my mom's like, of course you're with her.
Guest:You cry when she leaves.
Guest:That's not normal that you're sobbing for a week when someone leaves the house.
Guest:A friend.
Marc:So they all knew.
Marc:They all knew.
Marc:But your plan was to keep it secret.
Marc:And in order to be comfortable, you thought, well, there's a lot of lesbians at Mount Holyoke.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:I'm going to live there.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And then I ended up selling pot.
Guest:I had pot sent to me in the mail.
Marc:From?
Guest:This is after...
Guest:So much work in college and graduates, meaning like I had a great life.
Guest:I mean, I had everything.
Guest:And then I just went there and sold pot and just.
Marc:So let's just back up.
Marc:So you get you finish high school.
Marc:You go to Maryland to what college?
Guest:University of Maryland.
Marc:And you do undergraduate.
Marc:What's that?
Marc:You major in psychology.
Marc:OK.
Marc:And then you actually go to graduate school.
Guest:I started going to graduate school after college.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I moved to Northampton.
Marc:To be a lesbian.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's lesbian land in Northampton.
Guest:To scissor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No one scissors.
Guest:It's so stupid.
Marc:It looks difficult.
Guest:It is.
Guest:I mean, I only want to lift my leg.
Marc:Like, it's so... Maybe it's a rookie's mistake.
Guest:yeah no one that's really a lesbian scissors they just cry we are right yeah we just cry and eat hummus and um we don't do so i moved there first before i went yes and uh and then she became a pot dealer
Guest:Yes, I had pounds of pot sent to me in the mail.
Marc:You're saying it like it was some sort of weird thing you had nothing to do with.
Marc:You're like, I don't know what happened.
Marc:Someone forced me to... It just happened out of nowhere.
Guest:Well, it happened because I wanted to smoke pot for free, and I realized it's great money, and I don't have to work.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So you figured out how to sell pot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I sold it to the dealers.
Guest:I mean, but it's insane that I did that from what I came from.
Guest:Like, it's insane that I was a pot dealer.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I've met a lot of pretty, you know, kind of...
Marc:I've met a lot of middle class, upper middle class Jews that have done crazy shit.
Marc:I'm sure.
Marc:I don't know what we're judging ourselves against or who we think we are.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The fucking monsters.
Marc:I am a monster.
Marc:I'm out of my mind.
Marc:There's no shortage of Jewish monsters.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I love that.
Guest:I'm like, and I don't believe it.
Guest:Something happened and I started selling.
Guest:Like it just, and it just fell in my lap.
Marc:Same with the lesbian thing.
Guest:Like, where did that come from?
Guest:Why am I touching a vagina?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What is going on?
Marc:It's this whole other part of you that you'd like to believe is you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I want Dick, and I just keep being with women.
Guest:It's the weirdest thing.
Marc:Oh, so you're like the supplier.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Mark, I had it sent to me, pounds of it in transmission fluid.
Guest:From another Jew?
Guest:From another Jew in California.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:We all work together.
Marc:But you're saying like, who does that?
Marc:Why would somebody like me find another Jew who's going to send you?
Marc:To do business with.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Guest:My mom's like, if anything, you were an entrepreneur.
Guest:I mean, I lived off of it for like four years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I made a ton of money.
Yeah.
Marc:But no, you never got busted.
Marc:That's good.
Guest:Oh, I could.
Guest:And I was so pompous about it.
Guest:I literally, you're not even going to, well, this was 25 years ago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I had a package that didn't show up.
Guest:Do you know I called UPS and was like, where's my, can you believe how sick that is?
Guest:Where's my package?
Guest:And they're like, it went to the wrong, it went to Amherst, Massachusetts, and they drove it in a cab.
Guest:They drove my huge package of pot and I signed for it, opened it up and started weighing it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:it's just like on when i think about that now it's on i would have gone to jail for years yeah you get dug in you know yeah yeah it's not even denial it's just like i don't know i don't know what it is with that where you think is normal somehow i did i i didn't i actually didn't even care and you're also around a bunch of college students who are buying pot from you exactly it's just sort of like someone's got to do this it's a job someone's got to fill this role yes
Guest:Someone has to open the Chinese restaurant in town.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There has to be some Jew.
Marc:How are there Chinese restaurants?
Marc:I don't even understand it.
Guest:You can go to the middle of Nebraska.
Guest:I don't even understand it.
Marc:I know.
Marc:And they all look like someplace.
Marc:Every time you see them, you're like, does anyone eat there?
Marc:Is that just a takeout place?
Marc:Who buys the food there?
Marc:It never looks inviting.
Guest:No, and how did they end up in that small town?
Guest:Maybe they know where needs a Chinese restaurant.
Guest:Maybe there's like a bulletin board or something.
Guest:But every town has that one Chinese restaurant.
Guest:Every single town.
Marc:It's bizarre, man.
Marc:And I think about it all the time.
Marc:But it never looks like a place I want to go into.
Marc:I'm always like, how is that good?
Marc:There's no way it's good.
Marc:I don't need a lot of Chinese food anyway.
Guest:Oh, me either.
Guest:No, it grosses me out.
Marc:I don't know why that is.
Guest:Well, because I don't know what's happening with the meat.
Guest:I don't know what they're doing.
Guest:I feel like it's not even chicken.
Marc:But our parents' generation, our grandparents, they go to Chinese food.
Guest:Sunday night.
Guest:Sunday night is Chinese food and Christmas.
Marc:You grew up with that?
Guest:Of course.
Guest:My mom's birthday is Christmas, so we would always go out for Chinese.
Marc:There used to be a woman, I think a lesbian woman, up in San Francisco that ran a big comedy show.
Guest:Yeah, I think she still does.
Marc:Kung Pao Comedy.
Marc:Lisa Geduldig.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Gaduldig.
Marc:Gaduldig, I think is her name.
Marc:You should go do it.
Marc:There's a big room.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All Jews.
Guest:I heard about it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I did it many years ago.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:So you're selling pot.
Marc:You're eating pussy.
Marc:You're living up in Mount Holyoke.
Marc:You're having the time of your life.
Guest:Yeah, I'm having the time of life.
Guest:I was so miserable then.
Marc:Oh, because you weren't out yet and back and forth.
Guest:And I was a mess.
Guest:I played video games all day.
Guest:I was a mess.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Depressed.
Marc:Sitting there smoking weed all the time?
Guest:Yeah, just miserable.
Guest:And there's nothing to do up there.
Guest:Nothing.
Marc:And you're not even in college, so you're just like the weird person.
Guest:I was.
Marc:Like, are you going to go over to her house?
Marc:Yeah, we need pot.
Marc:Do we have to hang out, though?
Marc:Do we have to talk to her?
Guest:No, I think they like to talk.
Guest:People, you know, like you, I'm sure, have always gravitated to her, even if I was weird.
Guest:But I was also the codependent pot dealer.
Guest:So I'd be like, do you want more?
Guest:Are you okay?
Marc:Are you okay?
Marc:Like you get in people's lives?
Marc:You knew all the people?
Yeah.
Marc:Was it just college students?
No.
Guest:Yeah, it was a lot of college students and a lot of just random people that sold pot around the area that needed.
Guest:And it was gray pot from California.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Back when it was, you know, before all this insanity with the pot.
Marc:Oh, this is like.
Marc:Like, you know, there was one kind of good pot.
Guest:oh this is i saw it last night i was like what do you get headaches when no no yeah it's been a long time for anything yeah do you do you get headaches do you have anxiety do you hate your mother are you allergic to milk like there's all these questions now and there's i can't believe how many prescription weed just all of it it's insane so what happens what kind of bottom do you hit
Guest:Well, there I hit a drug bottom because I was so miserable.
Guest:But you were just smoking weed?
Guest:I was smoking weed, but then Melissa moved there, my ex.
Guest:And I was so screwed up.
Guest:Yeah, I was just screwed up.
Guest:I was doing drugs.
Guest:I started doing cocaine, and it was a secret.
Guest:I didn't tell anyone.
Guest:So I do it at home.
Guest:A lot of secrets.
Guest:There's always secrets.
Marc:So you're doing cocaine, you're a pot dealer, and you're gay.
Guest:Do you understand?
Guest:I'm a pot dealer doing cocaine by myself in an apartment, so I had severe paranoia.
Marc:Sometimes the best to coke by yourself.
Guest:Well, that's the only time I did it, so no one even knew.
Guest:So I would look out of a peephole for like six hours at a time.
Guest:Oh, you're a that kind of coke person?
Guest:Oh, bad, bad.
Guest:Drop it, go on the floor.
Marc:As soon as you do a line, you're like, oh, they're coming.
Guest:That was me.
Marc:No, it's the worst.
Guest:I was like, why do you do it?
Guest:Yeah, because I was trying to kill myself.
Guest:You're trying to medicate anxiety, probably.
Guest:And then I sent myself to rehab.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:And I went to Minnesota by myself to a gay rehab.
Guest:Isn't that crazy?
Marc:Is this before you came out?
Guest:It was after, but I just couldn't deal with it.
Guest:I couldn't deal with who I was.
Marc:And did it fall apart with the girl?
Guest:It did eventually, yes.
Marc:But she was supportive through all this?
Guest:Yeah, she's great.
Guest:She had no idea I was doing cocaine, so it was a little shocking to her.
Marc:How much were you doing?
Marc:Were you trading out one of the dealers that was also selling pot, sold cocaine, and you were doing trade, or what?
Guest:No, but I would... Well, yes, I think with one guy I did do that, but I was in such a crazy place where I would go in my car and drive to Springfield, Massachusetts at night by myself to get coke.
Guest:That's crazy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:crazy like a cop once taught me it's like what are you doing here i'm like i'm lost he's like um you're buying street coke it's i at some point did because i wanted it i needed it yeah yeah so coke is was really evil for me yeah it's definitely oh yeah it's really evil get you in that one was make you go crazy yeah so you go to a gay rehab i like that you shopped around
Guest:How funny is that called pride?
Guest:I mean, it's very original.
Guest:And I walked in and I was this Jewish girl from New Jersey.
Guest:I'm in the middle of the woods in this huge rehab.
Guest:And I said to them, hi, I'm here for the rehab.
Guest:I'm supposed to get my own room.
Guest:Can you believe this?
Guest:I know you're going to love this.
Guest:So they're like, okay, well, you're not getting your own room, but you can sit in the waiting area.
Guest:I sat there for 11 hours waiting for my own room.
Guest:That's how fucking entitled I was.
Guest:And it was a huge wake up for me.
Guest:Like it was just like you're not special.
Guest:You're just like everyone.
Guest:When's canteen?
Guest:do we have archery in an hour yeah that's how i looked at it where's the girl where's the girl with the guitar when's arts and they were like you can sit here and wait and i did and then i ended up in a room with this woman who was having the dts and i have to tell you it was the scariest thing that ever happened i'd never seen anything like it it was sheltered right
Guest:So it was like, what is going on?
Guest:You're throwing up.
Guest:It was very good for me at the time.
Guest:It was right in my face.
Guest:You're the same as her.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So how long were you there?
Guest:Oh, this is such a crazy story, Mark.
Guest:I was there doing really well for six, I'd say five weeks.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then this woman walks in.
Guest:Uh-oh.
Guest:And she's hot.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, you switch the addictions.
Guest:So she walks in.
Guest:I see these, you know, this woman, black Irish, black hair, bright blue eyes, great body tan.
Guest:I'm like, perfect.
Guest:Now I don't have to work on myself anymore.
Guest:So we had an affair at the rehab.
Marc:And that's intense.
Marc:Oh, my.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, because it's like, you know, it's all you got.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You got to make everything better.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:I don't care about the coke.
Guest:Give me the pussy now.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, so we would meet at night in our rooms.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then we left.
Guest:Like, I was doing really well.
Guest:I left rehab with her and moved in.
Guest:good idea it was crazy you're ready yeah i was fine i was fixed at that point so i was completely you guys didn't even finish rehab or you finished no we didn't we didn't finish we decided we're okay and you yeah we were just like we're in love now it's insane i know i know i know what you i know you know i'm sure we left when i got sober i got sober because of a woman
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:You knew her.
Marc:Did you?
Marc:I mean, I feel like you must have started.
Marc:Who?
Marc:Mishnah.
Marc:You remember Mishnah?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I forgot about that.
Marc:So like, you know, she, you know.
Marc:I forgot.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:It took a long time for that to become horribly unbearable for her.
Marc:But, you know, I did it.
Marc:I'm like, this is going to go.
Marc:This is where it's at.
Guest:I remember that so well now that you just said that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, we got married and everything else.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember the whole thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's just.
Guest:And it's a disaster.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Disaster.
Marc:So how long did it take you guys to melt down?
Guest:So I moved to Indiana, this Jewish girl.
Guest:That's where she was from?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, boy.
Guest:You know, she drives the BMW, has a gorgeous house.
Guest:She's gorgeous.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She got a job and everything?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's like a financial planner person.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:And I was like, it was- It's all set.
Guest:You're all set.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Two months in, we relapsed.
Guest:I mean, shocking.
Guest:We get wine at dinner.
Guest:It took two months, but we relapsed together.
Guest:And then we both moved to Jersey-
Guest:My family is like, what?
Guest:It's always been women that have taken me down.
Guest:Like, I've gone crazy from these relationships.
Marc:The woman who had a life in Indiana?
Marc:A whole life.
Marc:You took her to Jersey?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And we brought a place.
Marc:I love this tone where you're like, I don't know what happened.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It keeps...
Marc:Because I really don't.
Marc:Like someone else was doing it.
Guest:I feel like that.
Guest:Who was that person?
Guest:I guess it's my addict.
Guest:Like this other person inside of me making these crazy decisions.
Marc:But you must have had some sort of charm to get her to leave her life to go to New Jersey.
Guest:I do have charm.
Guest:I know you do.
Guest:Meaning like I've been with great women, but it's very hard for me.
Guest:I'm not great in relationships, but...
Guest:and she was screwed up too but we end up moving to jersey and shocking it doesn't work out how long that take not long like a year and then she goes back to indiana yeah and i was always heartbroken yeah and then i have to get sober again so it's like it's always been from breakups and the so relationship things when do you when do you start graduate school
Guest:so i was yeah so i went back to jersey and then i was like i'm gonna go for a master's in social work i mean i don't even know what because my mom's a therapist right yeah which is there is so much there yeah i went you know what est is yeah i went at 10 i went at 10 years old my mother was a seminar leader she did she stay in it
Guest:Yeah, she still is into the forum and landmark.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Mark, it's not easy.
Guest:She tried to get everyone to do it when I was growing up.
Guest:I wanted to kill her.
Guest:No, Est.
Guest:I mean, it was even worse then.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:I know a guy.
Marc:He was in the forum, and finally he got out.
Guest:I did S to 10 years old.
Guest:I was in a group.
Marc:I don't even know what it is, and I'm judging it.
Guest:Well, you would judge it, I think.
Guest:Of course I would.
Guest:I was 10, and I went with all my mom's therapists, friends, kids, and they went around with a microphone, and they had, you're going to love this, why I'm telling you.
Guest:They had all the kids talking about their lives, and I wasn't saying anything.
Guest:And I think they said, you know, what is it like for you at home?
Guest:And I'm like, well, my parents fight all the time.
Guest:They hate each other.
Guest:It's horrible.
Guest:And the next thing you know, I'm walking on a stage with a huge sign that said victim.
Guest:I knew you'd love that.
Guest:If that's not going to fuck you up.
Guest:What is that?
Guest:Meaning it's like.
Guest:I know they did that to you though?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And then, yeah, that's the whole thing is like taking responsibility.
Guest:I was 10.
Guest:It says everything about my life.
Guest:A huge sign with marker on a big piece of paper.
Marc:Your mom signed off on that?
Guest:Yeah, she's still to this day, says the forum.
Guest:The landmark is the best thing.
Guest:She tells everyone to do it.
Guest:We would go to the cleaners.
Marc:With the sign?
Guest:yes well that from what i remember i mean of course because you're the victim right i mean my mom is a therapist and would do a lot of therapy with me and she was an art therapist so she would have me draw my feelings and then analyze them i mean it was i was therapatized from the second god yeah and she saw clients in the house she's still around
Guest:Yeah, she still sees clients.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, she would see clients in the house and there was all these crazy people that would come to the basement to see her and we'd have to always be quiet.
Guest:And if I was upset about something, she'd hand me a bat and a pillow.
Guest:I mean, it's that kind of shit.
Guest:It's really.
Marc:And wait, you have how many siblings in the house?
Guest:well i only had a sister at that point but then when zach older yeah but then when zach moved in with my other step siblings it was i mean zach and i have the funniest stories about these people because there were no cell phones so she wouldn't show up right you know for an appointment and they would just be sitting in the den waiting and we would feel responsible for them there was no way to reach her she forgot about appointments where was she though
Guest:She was just out like she'd be in like New York City going to like... And someone... They're like, I'm here to see Elaine.
Guest:And then they'd come and just be waiting.
Guest:And I'm like, I'm so sorry.
Guest:I'm so sorry.
Guest:Hopefully she'll be home soon.
Guest:There were no pagers or anything.
Guest:So Zach once went out to a party.
Guest:He was 20 and left the woman in the house and put the alarm on.
Guest:And she was afraid to leave.
Guest:She spent the entire day and night in the house.
Guest:And then my mom walked in and she was sitting at the dining room table.
Guest:And she's like, what are you doing here?
Guest:And the woman's like, I don't know.
Guest:Your son let me in.
Guest:He had to leave, and I was afraid to leave.
Guest:And they had a session at like 6 at night.
Guest:She was in the house all day waiting.
Yeah.
Marc:Where's that movie?
Guest:I know.
Guest:Well, we were talking about it.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:But it is fascinating to have a therapist see clients in the house with kids.
Guest:It is bizarre, yeah.
Guest:It's amazing.
Marc:All right, so you decide to go to graduate school?
Guest:Yeah, which I hated.
Guest:How old were you?
Marc:NYU.
Guest:But you're older.
Guest:I was probably 27.
Guest:Yeah, I was 27, 28.
Marc:So you're in and out of relationships, in and out of sobriety, in and out of all this other insanity, and you decide, like, all right, I'm going to do...
Guest:And I hated school.
Guest:I was never a student.
Guest:I hated studying.
Marc:Did you stay sober ever?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:For years at a time.
Guest:But then I would always end, like it would always get screwed up when I would get into a relationship and it would end.
Guest:I would go crazy and start using.
Marc:So you're a year into graduate school and your grandmother says to do comedy?
Guest:Yes.
Huh.
Guest:So I start doing, I take a class.
Marc:Scott Blakeman?
Guest:No, I took it with the American Comedy Institute, Steve Rosenthal.
Guest:I loved doing it.
Guest:I was petrified to perform.
Guest:My mother took me to a therapist that deals with fears.
Guest:I'll never forget this because I...
Guest:I was vomiting.
Guest:So nervous.
Guest:And I remember standing across from this guy like, no, yes, like he was my father or something.
Guest:And then I finally was able to do it.
Guest:And I, you know, I didn't do well, but I did it at Caroline's.
Guest:It was sold out.
Guest:It was a bringer show with 35 people there.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I did well.
Guest:And I was like, this is the most powerful feeling I've ever had.
Marc:Right.
Marc:What did he teach you, though?
Marc:It was very helpful.
Marc:But you're very specifically, you know, you have a way of doing comedy.
Marc:Where did you figure it out?
Marc:Did you have comics you watched?
Yeah.
Guest:You know what's interesting?
Guest:I never was a fan of stand-up, ever in my life.
Guest:I'm not one of those people who watched a lot of stand-up.
Guest:I watched Eddie Murphy and Cracked Up, but I was Saturday Night Live, Lucille Ball, Carol Burnett Show.
Guest:That was my thing that I watched and loved.
Guest:My dream was always to be on SNL.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the biggest thing was fear of being up in front of people.
Guest:I was petrified.
Guest:I'm talking petrified.
Marc:But you're a natural kind of person who likes it.
Guest:Yeah, but still, I had never been up in front.
Guest:No, of course.
Guest:I was freaking out.
Guest:So doing a six-week class where I got up in front of a small group and tried out material and at least had some jokes, it helped a lot.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It did.
Marc:And so when you got, after you saw the fear therapist...
Marc:But did your family come to the first time?
Guest:Everyone.
Guest:Everyone.
Guest:My parents, my grandmother, Zach.
Guest:Everyone.
Guest:Everyone came.
Guest:They were all up front.
Guest:It helped me.
Guest:I felt supported.
Marc:And you did good.
Guest:I did well.
Guest:And then I did an open mic.
Guest:oh god and i was holy shit holy shit i was like oh this is what it is which probably made me stay in it because it was so miserable and uncomfortable and it was familiar um it was at a it wasn't a lesbian show but it was a place called henrietta hudson's in new york and it was an open mic and there were just women heckling and people just standing around it was horrible
Guest:Horrible.
Marc:That was the second experience?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:But that, I think, kept me in it because it was so horrible.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Because I like being in angst.
Guest:You know, that's- Fight.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's being a warrior.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just, I'm used to it.
Guest:It was familiar.
Guest:It was- Yeah.
Marc:And that's interesting.
Marc:So you had to, you realize like, oh, this is terrible.
Marc:Terrible.
Marc:So it's good.
Marc:And now we're- No, but also like, but there is a sort of like, you know, to learn how to have that sort of fuck you thing-
Guest:Well, I have to tell you, the most powerful, like I said, I feel is when I'm on stage and the most present.
Guest:Yeah, me too.
Guest:There's never a time when I'm that present as when I am on stage.
Guest:You too?
Marc:Yeah, I don't know if I feel powerful, but I definitely feel present.
Guest:I think as a woman, I don't usually get into this woman, man, but as a woman, I feel very powerful.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Standing above people with a microphone.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know if I think about it in terms of power, but I definitely, I like the feeling of the moments in between laughs where there's just a theater full of people waiting for something and I'm not doing anything.
Guest:Well, that's having power over people.
Guest:I mean, that's what it is.
Marc:That might be the power thing.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:Because they're waiting for you to- It's so terrifying.
Guest:The leader.
Marc:When you really think about it, you're like- Oh, it's terrifying.
Guest:It's like insane.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I said last night on stage, I would not be standing here if everything were okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I didn't have to do this.
Guest:This is a choice.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I know.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because I've become less frightened over time, there are moments on stage where I'm so aware and so present of just how ridiculous it is.
Marc:It's so ridiculous.
Marc:It's on me to do this show, but I don't have to.
Guest:I've said that.
Guest:I'm like, I could go either way right now.
Guest:I could give you what I know will work, or I could ruin this whole... That is a very powerful thing.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:And I don't ruin them as much as I used to.
Marc:I don't ruin them at all anymore.
Marc:But there were times where I'm like, this isn't going to, there's no way.
Marc:But I got to do it.
Marc:I got to make you not like me for a minute.
Guest:I've done that so many times.
Guest:I mean, I have done that so many times.
Guest:I love doing, I like, you know, doing that and then trying to win them over again.
Guest:It's crazy.
Marc:I used to do a joke about that where I say like, this is the thing I do with an audience.
Marc:I push you away and I try to get you back and I push you away and I bring you back.
Marc:It's a little dynamic I call dad.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:Yeah, I do that.
Marc:Because there are these people that I've heard about.
Marc:These performers are sort of like, they just want the love.
Marc:I'm like, I don't know if that's what I'm... Maybe I want it, but I don't know what to do with it.
Guest:First of all, whatever they give me will never fill the hole.
Guest:It is not even close to what I need to fill that hole.
Marc:I don't even know if I identify it as a hole as much as sort of like, you guys are like, look, I know me.
Marc:I don't like me this much.
Yeah.
Guest:It's uncomfortable for me.
Guest:Now I force myself to stand there for a second and take in the claps.
Guest:I swear.
Guest:I say, Jessica, stand here.
Guest:You deserve this.
Guest:Let them clap and acknowledge you and then walk off stage because I would run off stage every time.
Marc:It's so uncomfortable.
Marc:It's uncomfortable for me when they clap.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:Now it is still...
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:I get it because I've built a relationship with an audience.
Marc:I think the podcast helped me understand that.
Marc:It's not some random bunch.
Marc:I do know that I have sort of an audience now, and I believe them for the most part.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Whatever their experience of me is not my experience of me.
Marc:So if it's helping and you're enjoying it, good.
Marc:I don't have to ruin it because, you know, I don't feel the same way about me.
Guest:I have the exact same experience.
Guest:They're all like, do you know how great you are?
Guest:I'm like, no.
Guest:And I never will.
Guest:But thank you so much for saying that.
Guest:That's what I mean.
Guest:I will never take it in the way that I probably should ever.
Marc:I can't like I'm still like the guy like when people be like, great show.
Marc:And I'm like, I don't know.
Guest:Yeah, me too.
Guest:Are you kidding?
Marc:Let me just take your experience away.
Marc:We really had a good time.
Marc:I didn't feel like yesterday was better.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Guest:That one joke didn't work in the hour and a half.
Guest:That one joke was just... And I always find... I know everyone says this, but I really do find the one guy just staring.
Guest:Always?
Guest:Always.
Guest:I will find them.
Guest:If it's 5,000 people, I will find them.
Marc:I will look at people.
Marc:People have written me emails afterwards.
Marc:I don't know if you knew that you were looking at me, but it was difficult for me.
Marc:You made me uncomfortable.
Marc:The whole show, you kept looking at me.
Guest:Oh, I do the same thing.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:I try to be aware of it.
Marc:When I'm looking at somebody and I can see them, they're like, what?
Guest:They're like, I'm just here trying to enjoy a show.
Guest:And you're like, just staring.
Marc:I try to look up around.
Marc:Me too.
Guest:I did that.
Guest:That is so funny, Mark.
Guest:I did the exact same thing on both shows last night.
Guest:I kept looking around, but I couldn't see anything.
Marc:In the main room?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Weird room.
Guest:Have you gone on stage with the victim sign?
No.
Guest:That's such a good idea.
Guest:I want to put it in a movie or a... That is insane.
Guest:That's my t-shirt.
Guest:Insane.
Guest:Insane.
Guest:But that's one of many stories of insane stuff.
Marc:What was your relationship with your dad or your stepfather?
Guest:Was that all right?
Guest:So my dad is the funniest person I've ever met in my life.
Guest:He's hysterically funny.
Guest:Your real dad.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's very black and white.
Guest:He's different.
Guest:There are complete opposites.
Guest:My mother is a liberal artist, hippie.
Guest:My dad is...
Guest:old school businessman, black and white kind of guy.
Guest:And they still respect and love each other, but they just were not right for each other at all.
Guest:And he was very available to me when I was growing up and took care of me.
Guest:He was also very intense, very moody.
Guest:And my stepfather was the opposite of my father.
Guest:He was like...
Guest:He marched with Martin Luther King.
Guest:He used to run couples courses with my mother out of the house.
Guest:This is like the Fokker stuff.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:So they'd have like a bonding weekend, sex weekends.
Guest:It's so crazy.
Marc:And your real dad was just pragmatic.
Guest:He's like, I don't believe in therapy.
Guest:Just fucking get over it.
Guest:Nice balance.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You probably needed your father occasionally.
Guest:Yeah, he still talks about himself in third person.
Guest:Like, Daddy loves you.
Guest:Daddy's proud of you.
Guest:Daddy's proud you just did a special.
Yeah.
Guest:Daddy thinks you're good.
Guest:Daddy's daddy.
Guest:And I'm like, this is a little odd.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've been trying to figure out for myself what is this inability to accept love.
Marc:Because I tend to think it's because my parents were so self-involved and so needy that it feels loaded to me.
Marc:Me too.
Marc:That any love is sort of innately manipulative.
Guest:I understand that.
Marc:It's going to erase me somehow, your love.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:What does it cost?
Marc:What's it going to cost me?
Guest:What do you want from me if I accept your love?
Guest:What are you going to take from me?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:What is it?
Guest:Well, I think part of it also is, for me, is having parents that are narcissistic and then also I never allowed myself to rise.
Guest:Meaning, like if I did something with my mom, I would always kind of want her to win, let her win.
Guest:I can't explain it.
Guest:I kind of took care of them in certain ways.
Guest:I've always felt bad talking about them a lot, been protective of them.
Guest:So it's hard for me to allow myself to be the best I can be.
Guest:I just cut myself down a little bit so that they would shine.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah, because I mean, I definitely had that thing where, you know, where they, it's almost like they install a limiter.
Marc:in your brain like you know how do i you know how do i transcend this garbage like you know whatever the fuck they whatever whatever they are you know how do i get above that because there seems to be some part of their insecurity or their lot in life that that is going to make you insecure about yourself i don't i can't i can't quite figure it out but it's just like they're you're going to only hit the level that they allow you to hit by the wiring they put in you
Guest:As a child, that's very true for me.
Guest:I wasn't like encouraged to be the best I can be and, oh, you did great on a test.
Guest:And then like, it wasn't like that for me.
Guest:Now it's more like that.
Guest:But so I just always kept myself mediocre.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So the comedy is really the one thing that's like.
Guest:really hitting hard right now, and it's very uncomfortable for me, because there's a lot of success right now, and I'm having a lot of time with it.
Guest:It's great, but it's incredibly uncomfortable.
Marc:In what way?
Marc:What is going on here?
Guest:Because I'm not supposed to be one of the best.
Guest:I've always kept my... I play tennis.
Guest:I was always second-level singles.
Guest:I never let myself really...
Guest:succeed to my full potential right so now i'm i'm working on it i'm talking about in therapy and i'm really allowing it because i've worked so hard for 20 years i'm like this is crazy i have to let it happen and you got a special bill burr produced a special yes that's great yeah he called me out of nowhere
Guest:it's the one thing i'm not like oh i haven't gotten this and this one gets that it's the one thing i was like this is ridiculous what i really should have a special yeah yeah that was the one thing i was like this is insane yeah there's a special called open mic why shouldn't everyone have right i know i'm seeing all these people i'm like this is ridiculous
Marc:Well, that's nice, and that was spontaneous?
Marc:He just called you?
Guest:He did.
Guest:He saw me at the Patrice O'Neill benefit.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:I do a thing where I turn around and talk to myself on stage.
Guest:I don't know if you ever saw me do that.
Guest:My special's called Talking to Myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it's something you would really get.
Guest:I'm excited.
Guest:I turn around and I encourage myself in my back to the audience.
Guest:I'm like, it's okay.
Guest:You're going to do great.
Guest:It doesn't matter what these people think.
Guest:You need to love yourself.
Guest:And most people get it.
Guest:Some people think I'm having a nervous breakdown.
Guest:But he loved that.
Guest:And De Niro actually, remember, he saw me do that at the cellar and flipped out and hired me to work on a movie with him.
Marc:Right, the comedians, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's artists get that, the whole inner monologue, talking to myself and trying to motivate myself.
Guest:And then we taped the special and it's coming out December 6th.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:That's so exciting.
Guest:Yeah, it's a good story because he chose this older lesbian comedian.
Guest:It's an interesting story.
Guest:He didn't know you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He knew me and we were friendly.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But he really tried to choose people.
Guest:He got a deal for three comics and he tried to choose people he thought really deserved it and were the funniest.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that made me feel good.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:It was for no other reason than I thought I was funny.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's another comedian, a respectable, you know, funny guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You give respect from him and, you know, and you feel like you did it.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Everything I've ever gotten.
Guest:I'm not kidding.
Guest:Like nine out of 10 things is from comics.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's usually from another comedian referring me.
Guest:That's sweet.
Guest:It is.
Guest:And live shows like what else is going on?
Guest:So I'm touring a lot now.
Guest:I'm also making a movie.
Guest:I'm executive producing for FX about female comedians, a documentary.
Guest:It's the first movie that FX is putting.
Guest:They're going to put in theaters and then it's going to land on FX.
Marc:And you're one of the people who's in it.
Guest:I'm in it, and I'm producing it, yeah.
Guest:Who else is in it?
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:I mean, Amy Schumer agreed.
Guest:Fortune Feimster, Sandra Bernhard, Margaret Cho, they all agreed to do it.
Guest:A lot of people, Lane Boosler, Rita Rudner.
Marc:Great.
Guest:All different ages.
Guest:And it's not going to be some bitch fest, you know, like, oh, it's been hard.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I want people to watch it and then go see female comics after.
Guest:That's my goal.
Guest:Well, that's exciting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you're touring a lot.
Guest:Touring a lot, and I started a podcast.
Guest:It's called Relatively Sane, and it's not just comics being funny.
Guest:That's not what I wanted to do.
Guest:It's more talking and real.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I love doing it.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:I get that you love this and doing it for so long because it's-
Guest:It's funny.
Marc:It's like it gets you out of yourself.
Guest:You have a good time.
Marc:Get some laughs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's called relatively sane because it's a lot about family stuff I've done too with my mom.
Guest:And she's a brilliant therapist.
Guest:I'm talking.
Guest:She really is.
Marc:She still practices.
Marc:Is she giving you any pointers?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like it's all her giving pointers and us laughing about stuff that happened, stuff I told you about, you know.
Guest:No resentment against any of these people?
Guest:I mean, I go in and out of resentment.
Guest:If I'm not working on myself, obviously, as you know, I will get very resentful.
Guest:And if I'm working on myself, I don't even think about it.
Guest:That's literally where it is.
Guest:My parents have both apologized for stuff.
Guest:I'm very lucky.
Guest:Most people never had that.
Guest:They've both apologized and said, I never meant to hurt you or do anything.
Guest:We were young.
Guest:And I love them.
Guest:They're great.
Guest:But now I'm a parent, so I get.
Guest:Are you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God, Mark.
Guest:I have four fucking kids.
Guest:What?
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I have four daughters.
Marc:When did that happen?
Guest:Well, I had one with my ex, Shari, whose Zoe is 13.
Guest:She doesn't live with me.
Guest:This was the one right when I started comedy.
Guest:We didn't get into that, but when I just left graduate school and started comedy, I was flyering at the duplex in New York City, and she walked up to me, and that was it, 12 years together.
Guest:And how did you have the baby?
Guest:She had the baby with a donor that had all my characteristics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So Jewish, dark hair, dark eyes.
Guest:Interesting, yeah.
Guest:And you can hear, it's incredible.
Guest:You can hear interviews and see pictures now.
Guest:It was unreal.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:Of the donor.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And Zoe is stunning.
Guest:My 13-year-old is a knockout.
Guest:She's an actress and a singer.
Guest:And she doesn't live with me, but she lives right near me.
Marc:And you get along with her?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:With the mother?
Guest:Yes, we all get along.
Guest:I mean, it took a while, but we all get along great.
Guest:I didn't have legal rights because we got married and it wasn't legal at the time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it was difficult.
Guest:It was very difficult.
Guest:And then I got remarried to my wife, Danielle.
Marc:Who you're with now.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And we have a three-and-a-half-year-old who was born with heart disease.
Guest:It's very heavy.
Guest:Very.
Guest:She was born with a major heart problem.
Marc:Who carried the kid?
Guest:You?
Guest:She did.
Guest:Oh, she did.
Guest:No, I never would have ever carried a child if you paid me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I never once thought about it for even a second.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I never even thought I would have kids.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So we had Isabella.
Guest:And Isabella, we saw in the sonogram that she had...
Guest:Valve problem?
Guest:Yes, major.
Guest:Like Jimmy Kim, major, major, not a hole.
Guest:So she was born with one large valve that is called truncus arteriosus.
Guest:It looks like a mangled trunk of a tree.
Guest:It's horrible.
Guest:So she has two major problems.
Guest:She has a cow's jugular and we have to get it replaced.
Guest:She's had three open heart surgeries and a stent.
Guest:Can you believe that?
Guest:In three and a half years.
Guest:And she's okay right now, but she's going to need more open heart surgeries.
Guest:How old is she?
Guest:She's going to be four in November.
Guest:Heartbreaking.
Guest:Heartbreaking.
Guest:And then you're not even going to believe this, but I have three month old twins.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we wanted Isabella to have a younger sibling.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then we go for in vitro.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they're like, oh, it didn't work.
Guest:And we're like, oh, God.
Guest:So we try again.
Guest:Now it's twins.
Guest:Can you believe this?
Marc:And she just had them?
Guest:Yeah, three months ago.
Guest:And they're all girls.
Guest:I have four girls.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:It's an incredible story because I really never thought I would have one child.
Guest:And you live in the city?
Guest:We live on Long Island, and I love it, but it's challenging.
Guest:It's very challenging.
Guest:As a comic, as you know, I'm on the road, and it's a lot.
Guest:Danielle had to stop working full-time because of Isabella.
Guest:A lot of kids, yeah.
Guest:Well, because of all the doctor's appointments and surgeries.
Marc:But you're managing?
Guest:And she's a therapist too.
Guest:She's an addictions therapist.
Guest:Maybe she can just start seeing people in the house.
Guest:She is.
Guest:Mark, this is unreal.
Guest:So we're looking for houses and she's going to see people in the house.
Guest:I'm reliving my entire life.
Guest:Isn't that unreal?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're just going to make another you.
Guest:I am.
Guest:Right.
Marc:The same story.
Marc:Four of me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But they're different because my mother's very old school therapist.
Guest:Obviously the S stuff.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Danielle deals with teens with addiction issues.
Guest:So she's like, get over it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like she's tough.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's very different therapy.
Right.
Marc:But she's recovery-based?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She's recovering herself?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Everybody's recovering.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Good.
Guest:Everyone's recovering.
Marc:Everybody's okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No one's going to die soon.
Marc:But I'm glad you're doing good.
Marc:This was very enjoyable.
Marc:I am.
Marc:Wait, so what happened with De Niro?
Marc:Like, how'd you know that guy?
Guest:It's really a crazy story.
Marc:Because I remember that movie.
Marc:Like, I know there's a lot of talk about it, you know, and I know, who was the woman in it?
Guest:Oh, there was a lot of people in it.
Guest:Was it Edie Falco?
Guest:Edie Falco, Leslie Mann.
Guest:I became friends with all of them.
Guest:Harvey Keitel, Danny DeVito.
Guest:It's an incredible story.
Guest:I was performing at the Comedy Cellar.
Guest:He was there, De Niro, with Taylor Ackford.
Guest:The director.
Guest:They were looking for comics to be in it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And De Niro loved what I did.
Guest:I'm at a gig, one of those Jewish development gigs on that Saturday.
Guest:In Florida?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:In Florida at my father's apartment.
Guest:12 o'clock, around 12, I get a call from Taylor Hackford.
Guest:I have no idea who he is.
Guest:I have no... Even when he tells you who he is?
Guest:I don't know...
Marc:You have no idea who he is?
Guest:Yeah, I'm like, no.
Guest:So he did the thing where it's like, this is Taylor Hackford.
Guest:I'm like, who?
Guest:I'm like, uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah, okay.
Guest:I don't know who anyone is.
Guest:Me neither.
Guest:I never have, and I never will.
Guest:I don't either.
Guest:So he says, we bought- From people I know for 20 years.
Guest:Me too.
Guest:Like, they come up like- I don't even know who you are.
Guest:I know.
Guest:No, I really don't know who people are.
Guest:It's horrible.
Guest:I'm so self-involved.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I don't remember names.
Marc:It's ridiculous because we could train ourselves to do it.
Guest:Yeah, but who cares?
Marc:I fucking hate that though.
Marc:But now because I've lived so many places, it's sort of like you're going to have to give me a time frame in a city.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or a scent I can follow.
Guest:Something.
Guest:Me too.
Guest:I don't know who anyone is.
Marc:So embarrassing to know people for 20 years and be like, this is a... Wait for them to introduce themselves to people?
Guest:I tell people you have to introduce yourself because I don't know, remember who anyone is.
Guest:It's so embarrassing.
Guest:It's just... All right.
Guest:So Taylor calls.
Guest:So Taylor calls.
Guest:He's like, this is Terrell Hackford.
Guest:I'm like, uh-huh.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And he's like... No.
Guest:I'm like, you're a telemarketer.
Guest:No idea.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he goes, Bob and I would like to meet you on Wednesday.
Guest:And I go, Bob who?
Guest:This is literally how the conversation went.
Guest:He goes, Bob De Niro.
Guest:And I go, okay.
Guest:I have no idea what's going on.
Guest:So I'm like, okay.
Guest:And they're like, we want to talk to you about being in our movie.
Guest:And I was like, wow.
Guest:It was crazy getting that call.
Guest:It was crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I go on a Wednesday to the production office, and I sit with the two of them, and I hit it off with De Niro.
Guest:I don't know what happened.
Guest:I think he realized I don't give a shit.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:I was not kissing his ass.
Guest:To this day, it sounds insane.
Guest:It doesn't even faze me.
Guest:I was like, whatever, okay.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And they were talking to me, and it turned into a three-hour conversation.
Guest:Harvey Keitel walks in, and he's like, Taylor, you like this haircut for the movie?
Guest:I mean, I thought I was on acid or something.
Guest:I didn't know what was going on.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I had taught comedy for years at Gotham Comedy Club, so I told them that, because he had to act like a comic who's been around for 35 years.
Marc:You taught over there?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I didn't realize that.
Marc:They just offered classes?
Marc:He worked directly for Chris, or what?
Guest:I did.
Guest:Like I worked for Chris and I just loved teaching people.
Guest:It wasn't beginners.
Guest:It was people who had already been in it for a while.
Guest:But I just, I love teaching.
Guest:I love to teach.
Guest:And so I told them that and then Bob just took a liking to me and he hired me to, the next morning I met him at his house, his apartment, and there was a mic and a microphone and I taught him how to do stand-up.
Guest:And then I met him every morning.
Guest:I became his person.
Marc:Didn't he study it once before?
Marc:Yeah, but not like that.
Guest:And it was so long before that.
Guest:To make a very long story short, I ended up being involved in every scene in the movie.
Guest:He wanted me there for every single scene.
Guest:I was in his ear, so I was on a microphone.
Guest:And he had an ear thing in.
Guest:And I would just make him laugh and tell him things to say.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got an associate producer credit, a comedy consultant credit.
Guest:He paid me.
Guest:It was amazing.
Guest:It was unreal.
Guest:I became very friendly with all the actors.
Guest:And I became the person where even when he and Leslie Mann had a love scene, they both had me come in a room with them privately to tell them what to do.
Guest:I mean, it was really unbelievable.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:I learned so much, and I kind of directed some of it.
Guest:It was crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All from him just seeing me do stand-up.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It helped me want to become a producer and direct, like do all that stuff.
Guest:I loved it as much as I loved stand-up.
Marc:Are these guys still talking?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I've been talking to his people recently because I want to pitch something to him because he's always like anything.
Guest:I've never asked him for a thing, ever.
Marc:I just did a scene with him in The Joker, one scene I met him.
Marc:You did?
Marc:Yeah, but he didn't know me.
Guest:But you did something with him before that, didn't you?
Marc:No, no.
Guest:Oh, that was the thing, because I remember seeing you, and you saying, I just did... Yeah, it was the Joker movie.
Marc:I'm not in it much, but it was with him, and I did spend a little time with him.
Marc:But it was one of those moments where I realized, he doesn't know who I am.
Marc:No, he doesn't know who people are.
Marc:No idea.
Guest:He's an incredible person.
Guest:I really spent...
Guest:A lot of time with him, and he's really silly, which people wouldn't know.
Guest:I do characters and voices, so he used to film me doing these things so that he could go home and watch them.
Guest:He wanted to watch them at home.
Guest:And he's very accepting and loving, but he has this hard exterior, of course.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:No, no, he seems like a sweet guy.
Guest:Walking down the street with him is the craziest thing I've ever... It's beyond celebrity.
Marc:He's like the mayor of New York.
Guest:Yeah, it's insane.
Guest:Bobby!
Guest:Yeah, but he was so good to me and so sweet and...
Guest:Yeah, I just, I can't even believe how much I learned.
Guest:I had to really step up and use my voice, because the first day I went for filming was in Brooklyn at a deli, a famous Jewish deli.
Guest:I walk in, it's Danny DeVito, Patti LuPone, okay, they played a couple, and De Niro.
Guest:And I walk in, this is after meeting with him privately for months.
Guest:This is on camera?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm not on camera.
Guest:I'm going there to be with Bob.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And Bob comes up to me the second I walk in.
Guest:He goes, I need a line.
Guest:I need a line.
Guest:I'm doing a scene with dinner.
Guest:So I give him a line.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he says the line and Patti LuPone and Danny DeVito laugh.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it ruined the scene.
Guest:And Taylor Hackford started screaming at me.
Guest:I swear to God.
Guest:He's like, you can't just.
Guest:This is the first day.
Guest:You can't just fucking come in here and tell, you know, do this.
Guest:This is a professional.
Guest:And Bob took him by the arm and said, don't ever speak to her like that.
Guest:If you ever speak to her like that again, I'm out.
Guest:And that was the first day.
Guest:And I had a fight to get my voice in because he wanted me to.
Guest:Bob did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He would say, just come in, say whatever you want, do whatever you want, and I would... In terms of helping him out.
Guest:Yes, but then the producers, which is understandable, and the director would be like, God, just let us do our thing, but he wanted me to be his voice, and I did.
Guest:I mean, he hired me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Great.
Marc:Yeah, it was great.
Marc:Well, I'm so glad everything's going so well for you.
Marc:You seem like you got to... Your plate is full with family, career stuff, but it all seems good.
Marc:It's all good.
Guest:I have to allow it.
Guest:I am, but it's about me allowing it to be good.
Guest:But crazy time's over.
Guest:Yes, I can.
Guest:I'm way over.
Guest:Way over.
Guest:I'm tired.
Guest:I can barely get out of bed.
Marc:I know, I know.
Marc:Well, I'm excited about the special.
Marc:I'm excited.
Marc:I think we covered a lot of stuff here.
Marc:You think so?
Guest:Oh, I do.
Guest:You feel good?
Guest:Yeah, I feel so good.
Guest:I love talking to you.
Guest:You're amazing.
Marc:Yeah, I love talking to you.
Marc:You crack me up.
Marc:Nice seeing you.
Guest:You too.
Marc:See?
Marc:Funny, right?
Marc:Again, her Comedy Central special, Jessica Curse, on Talking to Myself this Friday, December 6th, on Comedy Central.
Marc:It'll be on the Comedy Central app, cc.com, and other on-demand platforms.
Marc:And also, we talked a little bit about her podcast, Relatively Sane.
Marc:You can get that wherever you get podcasts.
Marc:And also you can go to PodSwag.com slash WTF to get some of the new WTF merch for the holidays.
Marc:Hats, hoodies, cups, stuff, key fobs.
Marc:Fobs.
Marc:Or go to WTFPod.com and click on the merch link, okay?
Marc:Let me play some minor chords.
Marc:Hopefully to elevate the spirit of my sick cat LaFonda.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Boomer lives.