Episode 1069 - Kate Nash

Episode 1069 • Released November 7, 2019 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:Lock the gates!

00:00:09Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it oh my god how you doing you okay how's everything at the place everything worked out with that thing did that did you get that stuff in the mail that you're waiting for

00:00:31Marc:Did that package come?

00:00:33Marc:Are you okay?

00:00:34Marc:Did the pills work?

00:00:35Marc:Is it all gone now?

00:00:37Marc:How's your eye?

00:00:39Marc:That thing with your eye, is that better?

00:00:42Marc:The thing with your eye?

00:00:43Marc:Did that cold sore calm down a little bit?

00:00:47Marc:Did you did you lose the finger?

00:00:50Marc:What's happening?

00:00:53Marc:I don't know, you guys.

00:00:54Marc:Come on.

00:00:55Marc:I'm beat up all the time.

00:00:57Marc:I beat myself up all the time.

00:00:59Marc:I just it's not a mental thing.

00:01:01Marc:It's a physical thing at this point.

00:01:04Marc:I've been working out and then I go up the mountain and I do it two, three times a week, straight up this mountain.

00:01:12Marc:And then I run down.

00:01:13Marc:And every time I run down, I'm just playing with fire because I'm a breakable 56 year old man.

00:01:20Marc:I think my bones are relatively strong, but I got a buddy of mine.

00:01:23Marc:Only a couple years older than me.

00:01:25Marc:Broke his hip.

00:01:26Marc:Classic.

00:01:27Marc:He did the classic hip breaking.

00:01:30Marc:But not just, you know, falling in the shower, getting up.

00:01:34Marc:He was fucking mountain biking.

00:01:36Marc:Mr. 58-year-old.

00:01:38Marc:I got to be honest with you, man.

00:01:40Marc:I know everybody's on this alpha kick.

00:01:43Marc:Every middle-aged man is shaving their head and doing the goatee and getting jacked up on the supplements.

00:01:51Marc:You can't impose alpha.

00:01:53Marc:You can't make your bones stronger than they are.

00:01:56Marc:You will be humbled.

00:01:58Marc:You will be humbled by your stupidity if you let your ego and vanity compel you and fear.

00:02:07Marc:Yes.

00:02:08Marc:Don't break yourself trying to prove that you're what?

00:02:13Marc:Something you weren't even when you were 25.

00:02:15Marc:Am I being vague?

00:02:18Marc:Kate Nash is on the show today.

00:02:20Marc:Hi, Buster.

00:02:21Marc:Buster, come here.

00:02:22Marc:Buster, get on the mic.

00:02:24Marc:Kate Nash is here today, and it's been a while.

00:02:27Marc:That I've been working with Kate.

00:02:30Marc:And I've had people tell me I should have Kate on.

00:02:34Marc:But I didn't know what Kate did.

00:02:35Marc:And I did some research.

00:02:37Marc:I listened to her music.

00:02:38Marc:I realized she's a big pop star in the UK.

00:02:41Marc:And a bit here.

00:02:42Marc:She's got a new album out right now.

00:02:44Marc:She's also my co-star on Globe.

00:02:45Marc:But I just knew her.

00:02:46Marc:She was the British lady.

00:02:48Marc:But now I know this whole story.

00:02:50Marc:And it's a great story.

00:02:51Marc:And I finally talked to Kate.

00:02:54Marc:She's here.

00:02:56Marc:Also, I'm gonna be taking a vacation.

00:03:00Marc:We're gonna keep putting up shows, but I'm gonna take a vacation.

00:03:04Marc:And I want you people to know something.

00:03:06Marc:I'm gonna go back to Ireland.

00:03:10Marc:I'm telling you, man, I got a thing for Ireland, and I'm not going to lay it all out.

00:03:15Marc:I'm just taking a trip.

00:03:17Marc:I've pulled back a bit, as you know, over the past few years from sharing too much of my personal life with you because there's certain elements of it where I've gone through several relationships here on the mics, and each time I've talked to you less and less about them, not because we're not friends, folks.

00:03:36Marc:It's got nothing to do with you.

00:03:38Marc:It's just like there's part of me that I have to keep to myself.

00:03:42Marc:It's like Instagram.

00:03:43Marc:Same thing.

00:03:45Marc:It's like what the fuck are people doing on Instagram?

00:03:48Marc:Here's what I'm telling you.

00:03:51Marc:I've pulled away.

00:03:51Marc:I've pulled back from Twitter and

00:03:56Marc:I've gotten rid of my Facebook page altogether.

00:03:59Marc:I've kind of shut some of the light out of my personal life here on this podcast.

00:04:06Marc:And now Instagram.

00:04:07Marc:I've been more active on Instagram, but basically just letting people know what's up, checking in, that kind of stuff.

00:04:13Marc:The shows, the cats.

00:04:16Marc:I can be candid about the cats.

00:04:18Marc:They're not going to get upset by not feeling that they can represent themselves on the mics here.

00:04:24Marc:But Instagram is like this whole other thing.

00:04:26Marc:Like I do check Instagram.

00:04:28Marc:I follow a few people.

00:04:29Marc:I don't know who to follow.

00:04:29Marc:I can't follow too many people because I don't get too many people in my feed.

00:04:33Marc:But I've had this issue with Instagram and Twitter, to be quite honest with you, where, look, there is plenty of people I know in my life that I don't see every day or even hardly at all.

00:04:42Marc:But I know them for years and I'm in the same community, comedians, people I work with in show business.

00:04:48Marc:And I follow them on Twitter.

00:04:51Marc:And on Twitter, it just gets to the point with some people, it's like, how many posts are you going to do?

00:04:56Marc:When is this not just some weird cry for help?

00:04:59Marc:I mean, what is the impulse?

00:05:02Marc:If it's not just a sort of like, hey, I'm doing this, what's up?

00:05:05Marc:Maybe do a couple of jokes.

00:05:06Marc:But some people seem to be having this one side conversation where they present themselves as

00:05:12Marc:however they want to present themselves, whether it's funny or just earnest or concerned or like on the pulse of what's happening or outraged or whatever it is.

00:05:20Marc:You know, when somebody posts more than 10, 15 times a day, it's like, are you okay?

00:05:27Marc:I know you, but I didn't know you to be so annoying and desperate somehow.

00:05:32Marc:And then Instagram takes it to this whole other fucking level where it's just, I've had to unfollow people on Instagram because I like them as people who,

00:05:41Marc:But if I follow their Instagram feed, I start to resent them and I get mad at them.

00:05:47Marc:And it's almost like they keep barging into my door.

00:05:50Marc:Like I'm just trying to have a life and every four or five posts, a person who I used to like is going...

00:05:57Marc:Hey, man, remember me?

00:05:58Marc:Look what I'm doing now.

00:05:59Marc:Look, I got a hat.

00:06:01Marc:Look at that hat I got on.

00:06:02Marc:Hey, look who I'm standing with.

00:06:04Marc:Hey, look at my children.

00:06:07Marc:Hey, look at this is the thing I'm doing out in the world, and I want you to know that I'm doing it.

00:06:14Marc:And I get to a point where I'm like, all right, you know, I'm glad everything's going good and that you're excited to share it, but I can't do it anymore.

00:06:22Marc:And I'm sure people have had that experience with me.

00:06:25Marc:But why are you doing it?

00:06:28Marc:What is the need to do it?

00:06:29Marc:I'm trying to explore what is my need.

00:06:32Marc:I'm like, well, I got something I kind of want to say.

00:06:35Marc:Like with Instagram, I just want to check in with people.

00:06:37Marc:Tell them what I'm doing.

00:06:39Marc:Say hi.

00:06:41Marc:How's the day going?

00:06:42Marc:And this is the podcast that's coming up.

00:06:44Marc:And occasionally my cats.

00:06:46Marc:And that's fun.

00:06:48Marc:But that's it.

00:06:49Marc:Once every few days, really.

00:06:52Marc:Twitter, I don't post at all.

00:06:54Marc:Hardly ever.

00:06:55Marc:And it's, you know what?

00:06:56Marc:It's a relief.

00:06:57Marc:I've gotten some of my life back and it's mine.

00:07:00Marc:I, and I, and I can have it.

00:07:03Marc:I don't need to share it.

00:07:05Marc:Too many Instagram posts.

00:07:06Marc:That's all I'm saying.

00:07:09Marc:Take it down a notch.

00:07:10Marc:Did I tell you about that thing?

00:07:11Marc:I went and hosted that, um, Silver Lake Conservatory of Music, uh, benefit the other night.

00:07:18Marc:Again, third year in a row, uh,

00:07:21Marc:And I got to be honest with you, not an easy gig, not a fucking easy gig, but I do it for the kids.

00:07:27Marc:It's Flea from the Chili Peppers.

00:07:29Marc:He started the place and it's a great thing.

00:07:31Marc:It's a great thing, given that so many of the public schools aren't teaching music anymore.

00:07:36Marc:Music is very important, whether you turn out to be a musician or not, learning an instrument, building a relationship with an instrument, having that to express yourself or to comfort you or to entertain people.

00:07:47Marc:It's great.

00:07:48Marc:And as you know, as the heat rises and the apocalypse is upon us, we're going to need more traveling minstrels to visit the sort of ever shifting migrant camps around the country to where water is.

00:07:59Marc:And they're going to be nice.

00:08:00Marc:It's going to be nice to have somebody constructing and writing and entertaining with a few sad songs of the trek to find water in the new world.

00:08:09Marc:Yeah, it's going to be essential.

00:08:13Marc:So you might want to think about getting your kid onto an instrument.

00:08:15Marc:So have something to do when the grid breaks down and you have to go organic and just be on woodwinds or handmade instruments of different kinds, perhaps from garbage and whatnot.

00:08:28Marc:But it'd be nice to have a basic understanding of a musical instrument when you have to build a musical instrument out of junk and garbage to travel with in these wagon trains that are going to be happening regularly.

00:08:39Marc:from broken-down Teslas and horse-pulled carriages that were once motorized cars.

00:08:48Marc:How do I know all this stuff?

00:08:49Marc:It's coming to me right now.

00:08:50Marc:I'm just a vessel.

00:08:52Marc:I'm just a channel.

00:08:54Marc:That's all.

00:08:55Marc:I'm just saying maybe we're in an instrument for the end of the world so people don't have to cry all the time and there can be sing-alongs.

00:09:02Marc:But anyway, so I'm hosting this thing.

00:09:05Marc:And it's difficult because it's a big room of fairly rich people.

00:09:09Marc:And like last year, I got it was great because I was with Randy Newman and I got to eat dinner with him.

00:09:14Marc:The year before that, it was Katie Lang.

00:09:15Marc:And this year, the Chili Peppers always play, but they have a guest.

00:09:18Marc:This year was Eddie Vedder.

00:09:20Marc:And I, you know, I open the show.

00:09:23Marc:I don't do much material.

00:09:25Marc:I just kind of keep things going, keep a through line that at some point I do material.

00:09:29Marc:But it kept getting pushed up this year.

00:09:31Marc:Like, you know, I was just going to do a few minutes.

00:09:33Marc:I knew it was going to be terrible in the sense that I was going to wasn't really going to be able to get the audience to focus or listen to me.

00:09:39Marc:And it kept getting pushed up to the point where it was like, all right, I was going to do it before the Chili Peppers performed.

00:09:44Marc:And then they're like, why don't you do it after in between the Chili Peppers and Eddie Vedder.

00:09:48Marc:And like if I'd gone up right after the Chili Peppers, I would have held the audience.

00:09:52Marc:But they're like, just wait until Vedder, they get him set up.

00:09:55Marc:And I'm like, holy shit.

00:09:56Marc:So like now it's coming down to it.

00:09:58Marc:They've set the stage for Eddie Vedder.

00:10:00Marc:I don't know Eddie Vedder.

00:10:02Marc:And they're like, OK, just go up and do your three to five.

00:10:05Marc:And it's like ridiculous.

00:10:06Marc:No one's paying attention.

00:10:07Marc:I rose above it and I wouldn't let it be embarrassing.

00:10:10Marc:And I knew I told them, I'm like, this is great.

00:10:13Marc:I'm glad I volunteered for this.

00:10:14Marc:I'm glad I volunteered for this tanking.

00:10:18Marc:God damn it.

00:10:19Marc:So I'm just up there and I'm doing a few jokes.

00:10:22Marc:I'm getting nothing really.

00:10:23Marc:And I look over at the side of the stage and Eddie Vedder is dying laughing.

00:10:29Marc:And I'm like, don't do that, Vedder.

00:10:31Marc:Do not laugh at my failure.

00:10:34Marc:Do not laugh at my pain, Mr. Vedder.

00:10:37Marc:But I fucked myself because that means that they knew that he was waiting to go on.

00:10:40Marc:So I had to end my act there.

00:10:41Marc:It kind of worked out.

00:10:43Marc:And I brought Vedder up, took a couple shots at him before he got up there.

00:10:46Marc:And then he was very kind of like, hey, Mark, I wasn't laughing at your failure.

00:10:51Marc:I was laughing at your courage, man.

00:10:54Marc:I was laughing with you.

00:10:55Marc:It's very courageous.

00:10:56Marc:I'm like, oh, God damn it.

00:10:58Marc:That just made it worse.

00:10:59Marc:Play your songs.

00:11:01Marc:It was my mistake.

00:11:02Marc:Who the fuck thinks that going up in between two of the biggest rock acts of the last 30 years at a small venue event where people are eating dessert

00:11:13Marc:is a good idea.

00:11:15Marc:Who volunteers for that?

00:11:17Marc:Me.

00:11:17Marc:I did it.

00:11:20Marc:I volunteered for it.

00:11:22Marc:Kate Nash is here.

00:11:23Marc:And it's quite a story.

00:11:25Marc:Her latest album, Yesterday Was Forever, is available wherever you get music.

00:11:29Marc:You can also watch her in all three seasons of Glow, streaming now on Netflix.

00:11:34Marc:And it was great to talk to her and get to know her.

00:11:37Marc:I've been working with her for three years.

00:11:40Marc:It's never too late, folks.

00:11:41Marc:This is me and Kate Nash.

00:11:50Marc:It's nice to see you.

00:11:52Guest:Nice to see you too, Mark.

00:11:53Marc:I mean, we go through periods where we see each other almost every day.

00:11:56Marc:Yeah.

00:11:57Marc:It's not like we're hanging out.

00:11:58Marc:We're working.

00:11:59Guest:Yes, we're very serious.

00:12:01Marc:And it's taken me this long to have you on the show, even though people are like, why don't you have Kate on?

00:12:06Marc:She's a big star in music.

00:12:08Marc:And I'm like, is she though?

00:12:11Guest:You're like, who is she?

00:12:13Marc:Yeah, who is she?

00:12:14Marc:What does she do?

00:12:16Marc:Where does it happen?

00:12:18Guest:Yeah.

00:12:18Marc:But it turns out you are kind of a big star.

00:12:22Marc:It took me this long to do the research.

00:12:24Marc:You just didn't believe him.

00:12:25Marc:No, I believed it, but I'm an old man.

00:12:28Marc:And I didn't watch the documentary because I thought it would affect our conversation.

00:12:32Guest:Okay.

00:12:33Marc:What is it called again?

00:12:34Guest:Underestimate the Girl.

00:12:35Marc:Now that documentary was, you set out to just, it was supposed to be like just this sort of like, we're going to follow this pop star around.

00:12:42Marc:Yeah.

00:12:42Marc:And do a documentary about her journey in America.

00:12:45Guest:So it was like, yeah, I got approached.

00:12:48Guest:I didn't set out to make a documentary.

00:12:50Guest:I wasn't like, I think it's time for me to make a documentary.

00:12:52Marc:I just got asked.

00:12:53Marc:It wasn't self-generated?

00:12:55Guest:No, it wasn't self-generated.

00:12:57Yeah.

00:12:57Guest:But I was like, I just moved to LA and I was saying yes to anything.

00:13:02Guest:I was just saying yes to stuff.

00:13:03Marc:This was like 2008.

00:13:04Marc:14.

00:13:05Marc:Oh, okay.

00:13:07Guest:14, yeah.

00:13:08Marc:When did we start doing GLOW?

00:13:11Guest:16.

00:13:12Marc:Okay.

00:13:12Marc:Yeah.

00:13:12Marc:Okay, so someone approaches you, I want to make a doc about you.

00:13:15Guest:Yeah.

00:13:16Marc:Because I know who you are.

00:13:17Marc:Marc Maron doesn't, but I do.

00:13:18Guest:Yeah.

00:13:19Marc:And who was that?

00:13:20Guest:It was Amy Goldstein and this woman Anushka, and we had a hairdresser in common, and she did my hair for Coachella, and then I'd done this crazy vagina sculpture show at Coachella.

00:13:34Marc:You did a vagina sculpture show?

00:13:36Marc:Yeah.

00:13:37Guest:Well, I made these vagina sculptures, and it was like...

00:13:40Marc:Like giant vaginas?

00:13:41Marc:Yes.

00:13:42Marc:But they were clearly vaginas.

00:13:43Guest:I don't know if clearly is the word I would use, but vagina interpretations.

00:13:49Marc:Interesting.

00:13:51Marc:But there was no denying they were vaginas.

00:13:54Marc:Yes.

00:13:55Marc:Okay, got it.

00:13:55Marc:There was a guy named Jonathan Ames.

00:13:58Marc:He's a writer.

00:13:58Marc:I think he did a character called Mangina that was a man in a vagina suit.

00:14:05Guest:I like that.

00:14:06Marc:Yeah.

00:14:06Marc:Well, it's sort of a reaction to toxic masculinity.

00:14:11Marc:Right.

00:14:11Marc:An inversion of it.

00:14:12Marc:All right.

00:14:13Marc:So same hairdresser, vagina sculptures for Coachella.

00:14:17Guest:Yes.

00:14:18Guest:So they just heard about it and they were looking to work on a new project.

00:14:22Marc:They're like, this artist seems interesting.

00:14:25Guest:Yes.

00:14:25Guest:And they wanted to film with me.

00:14:27Guest:And we just started filming...

00:14:28Guest:And they didn't really know at first it was like, oh, this may be a TV show.

00:14:32Guest:This maybe we'll just see.

00:14:33Guest:And I'm like, okay, I'll just do whatever because I don't know what I'm doing here.

00:14:36Marc:And you're new to town.

00:14:38Marc:New to L.A.

00:14:39Marc:You want to crack America.

00:14:41Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:14:43Guest:Whatever that means.

00:14:45Marc:Yeah, you're going to make it in the USA.

00:14:46Guest:Going to make it in the biz.

00:14:48Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:14:49Guest:And, um, and we start filming and they, and they also said stuff, you know, they were like, well, you know, documentary, sometimes you have to kind of like create scenarios and we're going to get you in trouble.

00:15:00Marc:Yeah.

00:15:01Marc:So you, you emote properly.

00:15:02Guest:Yes.

00:15:03Marc:Yeah.

00:15:03Guest:And I said, I don't think that's necessary because I just like dramas around.

00:15:08Marc:Yeah.

00:15:08Guest:I'm sure that something weird was not hitting the fan yet.

00:15:12Guest:Not yet.

00:15:13Guest:I mean, shit is always hitting the fan in some way.

00:15:17Marc:But at this point, though, they were just sort of interested because you were kind of like on the rise, right?

00:15:22Guest:Right.

00:15:23Guest:I had been dropped by my record label already.

00:15:26Guest:And I had like continued through that and kind of kept a flow.

00:15:32Marc:But did they know that when they asked you?

00:15:33Guest:Yeah.

00:15:34Marc:They did.

00:15:34Guest:I was kind of like making it on my own, you know, like I'd survived being dropped by a record label.

00:15:40Marc:Right.

00:15:40Guest:And it was kind of like, what do I do now?

00:15:42Marc:Well, okay.

00:15:42Marc:So that's, and that's when the doc sort of takes a turn.

00:15:46Marc:Like, you know, it was supposed to, like, from what I understand, it got a little more kind of personal and a little more raw than was anticipated.

00:15:57Marc:It was supposed to be sort of an ascent was the hope.

00:16:00Guest:Well, that's always the hope.

00:16:02Marc:Right.

00:16:02Marc:She's going to land on her feet.

00:16:03Marc:She's on her own.

00:16:04Guest:I feel like documentary makers, maybe they kind of are secretly hoping for a little bit of a descent as well.

00:16:09Marc:Sure.

00:16:09Marc:Well, they want it.

00:16:10Marc:Well, either that or they want people to watch it and go like, well, I don't know who's at fault here.

00:16:14Guest:Yeah.

00:16:15Marc:Who's the bad guy?

00:16:17Marc:Am I the bad guy?

00:16:18Marc:So, okay, so let's go back, because I've been listening to music today.

00:16:23Guest:Okay.

00:16:24Marc:I got into it.

00:16:25Marc:Cool.

00:16:25Marc:Seems like the new record, or 2018, the last record, you're, like, rocking harder.

00:16:31Guest:Yeah.

00:16:32Marc:Is that true?

00:16:33Guest:Yeah.

00:16:33Guest:I think, like, 2013...

00:16:37Marc:was like my angry record that was so the first record right the first record's 2007 yeah made of bricks well that was okay so let's go back to that because I I don't even know what the what kind of music it is really yeah I mean I know it's sort of like my second wife listened to Lily Allen and I know there's a British poppy thing that's sort of dancey but kind of fun yeah and it's that area right

00:17:01Guest:Yeah.

00:17:02Guest:I mean, it's like, I feel like there was a scene in London happening at the time where it was like British artists being British because there was so much before that that was like even British artists singing in American accents because everyone, you know, like that was kind of a thing.

00:17:17Marc:It felt like a lot of the British pop, you know, power pop from the 80s to me, there was some of that in there.

00:17:22Marc:And maybe in the later record, there's a little Roxy music in there.

00:17:25Marc:I don't have that, you know, like I could hear British music and squeeze.

00:17:29Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:31Marc:Is that all in there?

00:17:31Guest:Yeah, I mean, I just played the piano.

00:17:33Guest:And so that's what I had as my outlet.

00:17:36Marc:Maybe it's just because you're British.

00:17:37Marc:I just associate it with every British thing that I've ever heard.

00:17:44Guest:I mean, I grew up listening to like the Beatles.

00:17:46Guest:My parents listened.

00:17:48Guest:Nilsson.

00:17:48Guest:I loved Nilsson so much.

00:17:49Marc:Harry's pretty great.

00:17:50Guest:Janice.

00:17:51Guest:I love Harry.

00:17:52Guest:And Janis Joplin.

00:17:53Guest:And I had like a lot of good music around me as a kid.

00:17:56Marc:You're screaming on this record too, a little more.

00:17:57Marc:Oh, I thought you meant right now.

00:17:58Marc:No, but on this record, it seems to be yours.

00:18:00Guest:Yeah, screaming kind of came into my life in like 2010.

00:18:02Guest:Oh.

00:18:04Guest:Well, not in my personal life.

00:18:06Guest:But in the record, in the... Yeah, I just kind of had a lot of anger after my first record because of all this sexism I experienced like in the industry.

00:18:15Marc:But the record was huge and I imagine it was huge with a lot of girls.

00:18:20Guest:Yes, it was.

00:18:21Marc:Yeah.

00:18:21Marc:It feels like the first record was a number one record in the UK, right?

00:18:27Marc:In Europe.

00:18:27Marc:Yeah.

00:18:28Marc:And just by the nature of the music, I'm like, well, this isn't necessarily speaking to me.

00:18:33Marc:It's enjoyable.

00:18:34Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:34Marc:But I can see how girls would be like, yes.

00:18:37Guest:Yeah.

00:18:37Yeah.

00:18:37Marc:This is my heart.

00:18:39Guest:It was like identity.

00:18:41Guest:Well, it got called... One of the things that I love about that record is that it got called like... In a way, at the time, it was being reviewed in a sort of derogatory way too of like... It's like a teenage girl's diary.

00:18:55Guest:And I was like, that is the best thing you could ever be.

00:18:58Marc:Well, that's such a weird, dumb British...

00:19:01Guest:commentary like you know why is she being so honest and telling us this why is she a teenage girl yeah no one cares about them except everyone in the world is trying to market everything towards them right we don't want to know how they feel we just want to use them yes yeah

00:19:16Marc:Just run money through them.

00:19:18Guest:Yeah.

00:19:18Marc:Yeah.

00:19:19Marc:But how did the first album come about?

00:19:21Marc:And when did you start doing this?

00:19:23Marc:Where'd you grow up?

00:19:24Marc:Let's ask a lot of questions.

00:19:25Marc:I have no sense of England.

00:19:27Marc:And when I have British people on, I always feel stupid because I can't I can't do what I usually do, which is like, oh, you're from New Jersey.

00:19:33Marc:I know New Jersey.

00:19:34Marc:You're going to tell me things.

00:19:35Marc:I'm going to be like, I'm going to have to ask you dumb questions.

00:19:38Marc:So where'd you grow up there?

00:19:39Guest:Harrow, North Harrow.

00:19:41Marc:Harrow?

00:19:41Guest:Yeah.

00:19:42Marc:Is that in London?

00:19:43Guest:Yes, it is in northwest London.

00:19:44Guest:It's near Wembley, kind of.

00:19:46Marc:Near Wembley Stadium?

00:19:47Marc:Yeah.

00:19:48Marc:And what kind of neighborhood is it?

00:19:50Guest:It feels suburb-y.

00:19:51Guest:There's all these zones, like outer zones of zone one to six, and it feels kind of suburb-y there.

00:19:57Marc:Which zone were you in?

00:20:00Guest:Five.

00:20:00Marc:Wow, zone five.

00:20:01Marc:This sounds like a weird dystopic future movie.

00:20:05Marc:I lived in zone five.

00:20:07Marc:Well, lucky you weren't in zone six, right?

00:20:09Guest:I was in zone seven.

00:20:10Marc:No, that's way out there.

00:20:11Guest:Don't want to be there.

00:20:12Guest:I went to a school when I was 16 called the Brit School.

00:20:15Wow.

00:20:15Marc:What did your parents, like, what'd they do?

00:20:18Guest:My mom's a nurse.

00:20:19Marc:Like a nurse nurse?

00:20:20Marc:Yeah.

00:20:21Marc:At a hospital?

00:20:21Guest:Yeah.

00:20:22Guest:What other kind of nurse is there?

00:20:23Marc:Well, there's nurses that work in doctor's offices.

00:20:25Marc:There's specific types of nurses.

00:20:27Guest:My mom has worked in, like, so many different areas of nursing, and she's very strong and good nurse.

00:20:34Guest:And she was working, she's worked in, like, a cancer unit, like, when she had cancer and stuff like that.

00:20:40Marc:Oh, wow.

00:20:40Guest:She's, like, very strong.

00:20:41Guest:And then she worked in a hospice for many years.

00:20:43Marc:For people on their way out?

00:20:46Guest:Yeah.

00:20:47Marc:Oh, my God.

00:20:47Guest:I know.

00:20:48Marc:So she understands it.

00:20:49Guest:Yes.

00:20:50Marc:She gets the transition.

00:20:52Guest:Yeah.

00:20:53Marc:She understands life.

00:20:54Guest:Death is like a big thing in my life, I feel like, because of that.

00:20:58Guest:I just feel like.

00:20:59Marc:Because she'd go to work and she'd come home and be like, well.

00:21:01Guest:So many people died all the time.

00:21:03Marc:Mr. Johnson's gone.

00:21:04Guest:Yeah.

00:21:04Marc:Yeah.

00:21:05Marc:Yeah.

00:21:05Marc:It took shorter time than we thought.

00:21:07Guest:Yeah.

00:21:08Marc:And that was just her job.

00:21:10Guest:And you just, yeah, every day would hear these different stories and you kind of get to know these people because she'd be talking about her work and then you like go through all these stories.

00:21:17Guest:I mean, I remember stories of like this couple getting married in the hospice and like they knew that she was going to die and then she died.

00:21:26Guest:I mean, just all these emotional stories.

00:21:30Marc:i don't know why i'm being like oh god like it's a horror show like to me i think it would behoove all of us to have some sort of acceptance or deeper understanding of that process yeah right because it's inevitable it's one of the few things it's the only it's like inevitable it's the main thing that like we try to deny and right that's like definitely happening definitely sure and we're all so scared of it because you know who knows we don't want to be in pain

00:21:57Guest:I'm not scared of dying myself.

00:21:59Marc:Are you really not?

00:22:01Guest:I mean, I'm scared if it's like violent and horrible.

00:22:04Marc:Yeah.

00:22:04Guest:But I'm more scared of like everyone I know dying and that just being really sad.

00:22:09Marc:They're gonna.

00:22:10Guest:They're gonna die.

00:22:11Guest:Everyone I know is gonna die.

00:22:13Guest:It's so sad.

00:22:15Guest:But it's also, it's just like, that's fucking the world, this planet.

00:22:19Guest:It's like everything.

00:22:20Marc:It's the way it is.

00:22:20Guest:I think if we like definitely kind of accepted that more, then there'd be healthier people.

00:22:24Guest:Yeah.

00:22:25Marc:So did you find that early on when your mom was doing this, did she tell you?

00:22:30Marc:I mean, was there any, like, I would assume that it's sort of dark, but if she was acting like it's just the way it is.

00:22:38Guest:She's very practical and it's like no bullshit.

00:22:41Guest:And she actually, she really hates passed away or we've lost them.

00:22:47Marc:What did she say?

00:22:47Marc:Died?

00:22:48Guest:died she's like somebody has died and you can't as a nurse use language that's like trying to dress it up in any other way like they didn't pass away anywhere they died they died it's like doctors like it's cancer it's not good yeah and the prognosis is what it is you can try but I mean there's just I don't know I remember like my granny dying and I remember the way my mom talked about that and yeah like I was we were all there that she's Irish as well my mom so there's like such a different

00:23:17Marc:Oh, they're pretty matter of fact.

00:23:19Guest:An Irish funeral in comparison to an English funeral, which I've had.

00:23:26Marc:What is the difference?

00:23:27Guest:It's so much more alive at an Irish funeral.

00:23:30Guest:Really?

00:23:30Guest:English funeral is like awkward, silence, depressing, sad.

00:23:36Marc:Yeah.

00:23:36Guest:And like stiff.

00:23:39Guest:Yeah.

00:23:39Guest:And just you feel very depressed.

00:23:41Guest:let's get it done with you're like this is such a fucking sad way to go out yeah that's why i feel an english funeral no matter what it is this yeah yeah whereas an irish funeral it's like fucking let's do this you know like you sit and you cry and you're like vocal and people have things to say and they and you laugh someone left my granny's funeral yeah like cackling with laughter to my mom and said i've had the best

00:24:03Guest:time and then they were like oh god i'm so sorry she was like no that's exactly what she would have wanted a celebration of someone's life i just remember like crying and laughing and crying and laughing and like talking being loud and like eating and like yeah just doing that for like a week i think out of any culture you know i think the irish sort of know that the shit's gonna get bad yeah

00:24:27Marc:Like, not only are we going to die, but it's probably going to happen sooner than you want it to.

00:24:32Guest:Yeah.

00:24:33Marc:What are you going to do about it?

00:24:34Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:24:35Marc:I don't know.

00:24:36Marc:I love the Irish personally.

00:24:38Guest:Me too.

00:24:39Marc:And your dad's English?

00:24:41Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:24:42Marc:What's he do?

00:24:43Guest:He's a systems analyst, which is, I don't really understand my dad's job very much.

00:24:48Marc:No one does.

00:24:48Marc:He just works like... 80% of the people that I talk to don't understand their father's job.

00:24:53Guest:He just looks at a screen and it's like coding.

00:24:55Guest:And he's like...

00:24:57Marc:Does he love it?

00:24:59Guest:I don't think he loves it.

00:24:59Guest:He's just really good at what he does, and he works really hard for his family.

00:25:02Marc:Oh, that's nice.

00:25:02Guest:He's a very hardworking guy.

00:25:04Marc:He doesn't love it.

00:25:05Marc:He's good at it.

00:25:06Marc:How big's a family?

00:25:08Guest:I have two sisters.

00:25:09Marc:Older?

00:25:09Guest:One older, one younger.

00:25:10Marc:Oh, really?

00:25:11Guest:Yeah, I'm the difficult middle child.

00:25:13Marc:Is that standard?

00:25:14Guest:We're all pretty difficult, actually.

00:25:17Guest:Is that true?

00:25:17Guest:Yeah, I think so.

00:25:18Marc:Why do you think?

00:25:20Marc:I don't know if I've heard that.

00:25:21Marc:I don't have any kids.

00:25:22Marc:I think... And I'm not a middle child, but I like the idea.

00:25:26Guest:Of being in the middle.

00:25:28Marc:Of the middle child being difficult.

00:25:29Guest:I think every child thinks they have it the worst, but I feel like the middle child is like, well, the older one got to do everything and didn't have a strict rules because you didn't know.

00:25:38Guest:And then the younger one gets away with it because you can't be bothered by the time you get to the younger one.

00:25:41Guest:So the middle one gets the like, we've done this before, so we know how to be strict.

00:25:44Guest:And then by the time they get to the last one, they're like, oh, I can't be bothered.

00:25:46Marc:Right, right, right.

00:25:47Guest:So they just get away with everything.

00:25:49Marc:Oh, I get it.

00:25:50Marc:So is it weird having a mom as a nurse?

00:25:52Marc:Because like when you guys get sick, she's like, all right.

00:25:54Guest:I feel like it's equipped me when I go into a hospital now and I have to be there either for someone else or myself.

00:26:00Guest:I know the questions to ask.

00:26:01Guest:I know how to be demanding.

00:26:02Guest:I know that you have to do that.

00:26:04Guest:There's certain things you have to look out for yourself.

00:26:06Marc:Did you go to the hospital a lot when you were a kid?

00:26:08Guest:I had a heart condition when I was 16.

00:26:10Marc:Oh, I think I saw that in the research somewhere.

00:26:13Guest:Yeah, in the research file.

00:26:14Marc:A heart condition?

00:26:17Guest:Yeah, I had heart surgery.

00:26:18Guest:I had like a tachycardia thing.

00:26:21Marc:Tachycardia, so it went... It went... Oh, no shit.

00:26:25Guest:It got stuck on a loop, yes.

00:26:27Marc:Really?

00:26:27Guest:Burn off the loop.

00:26:29Marc:Really?

00:26:29Guest:Yeah.

00:26:30Marc:Like that fast, like cocaine fast?

00:26:32Guest:Yeah, it felt horrible.

00:26:34Guest:Yeah, it was like here.

00:26:36Marc:In your throat?

00:26:37Guest:Yeah, and it got like... I have asthma as well, so... Asthma too, huh?

00:26:44Yeah.

00:26:44Guest:poor me um so one of the side effects for taking the drugs for asthma can be like a spout a sped up like palpitations right so when i would complain of having a fast heartbeat yeah my mom didn't really was she was like oh it's just like a medicine yeah but then one night she like felt it and was like we need to go to the emergency room right now yeah yeah so how old were you when that happened

00:27:09Guest:17.

00:27:10Guest:The surgery was 17.

00:27:13Marc:But was it like any fear that you would die?

00:27:15Guest:Yes.

00:27:17Guest:Yes, there was.

00:27:18Guest:And I just didn't really know what to do with that at 17.

00:27:20Marc:What?

00:27:21Marc:Because of the surgery you could die?

00:27:23Guest:It was like, the doctor was like, here's the statistics that when you have the surgery, it could go wrong or you could have a stroke or you might end up with a pacemaker.

00:27:30Guest:And here's what's going to happen if you don't have it.

00:27:32Guest:And then these are the percentages and you should make the decision.

00:27:34Guest:And I was like, I'm 17.

00:27:36Guest:I don't know what...

00:27:37Guest:how to make any decision.

00:27:38Marc:Did your mom step in there?

00:27:40Guest:Well, it ended up actually getting so bad that I had to have the surgery.

00:27:43Guest:So that was kind of a relief because I was like, at least I didn't have to make the decision.

00:27:48Guest:Actually, I had this crazy surgery where they kept me awake and they put three tubes in the top of like one thigh and two tubes in the top of the other.

00:27:58Guest:And they pushed them through me whilst I was awake and like drugged me and stuff.

00:28:02Marc:Oh, they push the tools?

00:28:05Guest:Like these tubes.

00:28:06Marc:So I could feel like these tubes.

00:28:08Marc:In your veins.

00:28:09Guest:It's a very strange feeling.

00:28:10Marc:In your artery, right.

00:28:11Guest:Yeah, going through the stomach.

00:28:14Guest:And then they like stuck this laser through and they lasered off.

00:28:19Guest:So you can feel it like burning in your chest.

00:28:21Marc:Come on.

00:28:22Marc:Yeah.

00:28:23Guest:Pretty cool, right?

00:28:25Marc:Oh, did you write a song about it?

00:28:27Guest:I didn't actually.

00:28:28Guest:I know.

00:28:30Guest:I never pieced it together into my creative.

00:28:33Guest:I didn't think about how this affected me until recently.

00:28:37Marc:Really?

00:28:38Guest:I brushed that thing off quite quickly.

00:28:41Marc:Well, because you got through it.

00:28:42Marc:And yeah, I guess like if you survive something, if it didn't cause you.

00:28:47Marc:Well, I don't know.

00:28:48Marc:Maybe it's a PTSD thing.

00:28:49Guest:Yeah.

00:28:50Marc:Right.

00:28:50Guest:I think I just didn't acknowledge any of those like mental health things.

00:28:53Guest:So like late in my 20s.

00:28:56Marc:And then what other ones?

00:28:58Guest:Like OCD and anxiety and all of that.

00:29:00Marc:Like I just was like real OCD.

00:29:02Guest:Yeah.

00:29:03Marc:Well, how does it manifest itself?

00:29:05Guest:It's like tied into the anxiety and it will just be like controlling me with things I have to do.

00:29:11Guest:I do that.

00:29:14Marc:Yeah.

00:29:15Marc:But you don't have a paralyzing kind of like you got to touch the doorknob five times.

00:29:19Guest:Yeah, I have that.

00:29:20Marc:Oh, you do?

00:29:21Guest:But I controlled it in a very strange way with becoming vegetarian.

00:29:29Marc:Okay, because that's a control thing?

00:29:32Guest:I have no idea.

00:29:34Guest:This is all like stuff I've realized later, but I, so I got this bunny rabbit when I was like 23.

00:29:40Marc:How old are you now?

00:29:41Marc:How old am I?

00:29:43Marc:32.

00:29:43Marc:Okay.

00:29:44Guest:I was like 23 or something.

00:29:46Marc:I don't know if that's rude to ask, but you seem, you can handle it.

00:29:50Guest:I'm fine with the truth, Mark.

00:29:51Guest:We're all going to die.

00:29:52Marc:Yeah, I know.

00:29:53Marc:We've covered that.

00:29:54Marc:Good.

00:29:54Marc:We accept it.

00:29:56Marc:Oh, I don't want to go yet though.

00:29:57Marc:A couple more years.

00:29:58Marc:Yeah.

00:29:59Guest:At least a couple.

00:29:59Marc:23, bunny.

00:30:01Guest:Right.

00:30:01Guest:So I get a bunny and I like just underestimated how much a bunny like any pet is being and I just kind of fell in love with her and I was like, oh, my God, I thought it's just going to be like a bunny.

00:30:13Guest:And she's like my child and I'm obsessed with her.

00:30:16Guest:and then she had to have this surgery because like you know i got her neutered spade away yeah and the doctor's like it's really risky because she's a small bunny so like to put her under is risky and i was like yeah and i started like having these meltdowns about that and about the bunny going under yeah and so then all my ocd things were like you have to do them because if you don't she won't make it does not sound like your mother's fortitude rubbed off on you at all

00:30:39Guest:it didn't i have zero logic zero logic there was no acceptance around the buddy this bunny no no she couldn't go yeah so everything was controlled by that and it got pretty crazy and i was like kind of it was like the main thing in my life and then and just all the rules of like stuff i had to do i'd be like can't leave the house and i'd be like i have to go back because i didn't do this and i didn't fold that and i have to do it in that same way now where were you in your career when that was happening

00:31:05Guest:I was in an interim period in between my first and second record.

00:31:08Guest:I think I was writing my second record.

00:31:09Marc:So what happened with the bunny?

00:31:11Guest:So I had an argument the night before the surgery with a friend who was vegetarian who was like, you need to be vegetarian.

00:31:21Guest:And I was like, no, I don't.

00:31:22Guest:I like animals, but I can still eat meat.

00:31:23Guest:And then the next day I woke up and I was like, if I don't eat any animals, then she's going to be fine.

00:31:27Guest:And it was like a deal that I did.

00:31:28Marc:Some magical thinking.

00:31:31Yeah.

00:31:31Guest:The way you said that.

00:31:35Marc:It's an ongoing conversation with me.

00:31:38Marc:I like to call it.

00:31:39Guest:It was like disgusted, but so profound.

00:31:43Marc:Well, it's like it's a theme with me right now.

00:31:45Guest:Is it?

00:31:45Marc:Yeah.

00:31:46Marc:But but I think that anxiety and OCD that, you know, mystical thinking.

00:31:51Marc:I've had that before myself and I try to call it out.

00:31:55Marc:But but that's what that was.

00:31:57Guest:But it helped.

00:31:58Guest:So what I did then was like- Right.

00:32:00Marc:It's like, because you don't have a religion in place?

00:32:04Guest:No.

00:32:04Marc:Right.

00:32:05Marc:So there you go.

00:32:05Marc:You're inventing one as you go along.

00:32:07Guest:Yeah.

00:32:08Marc:Yeah.

00:32:08Guest:So I did this deal.

00:32:10Guest:And then anytime that, and still, and I'm vegan now.

00:32:13Guest:And I actually like, I'm very happy with my life choice.

00:32:15Guest:At first I was like craving meat and I didn't want to, I wanted to eat meat.

00:32:18Marc:But you wanted that bunny to live.

00:32:20Guest:I wanted her to live.

00:32:20Guest:So I had to not eat it.

00:32:21Marc:Did it live?

00:32:22Guest:Yes.

00:32:22Marc:Yes.

00:32:22Marc:Is it still alive now?

00:32:24Guest:Yes, she is.

00:32:25Guest:Can you believe it?

00:32:26Guest:Magical thinking, huh?

00:32:29Marc:Great.

00:32:29Marc:Why don't you apply it to a bigger thing?

00:32:32Marc:If you've got this power, fix everything.

00:32:36Guest:I will.

00:32:37Marc:Thank you.

00:32:37Marc:The next record, just call it magical thinking and solve the world's problems.

00:32:43Guest:Okay, I'll try.

00:32:44Marc:So, well, that's interesting, but so, because I imagine with the stress of the first record and the expectations, so how does, so let's go back.

00:32:53Guest:Yeah.

00:32:54Marc:To that, how does this record happen?

00:32:57Marc:I mean, were you always doing music?

00:32:59Guest:Yeah, I played piano as a kid, and I always sang, and I knew I wanted to.

00:33:02Marc:You played guitar too, though, right?

00:33:03Guest:I started playing guitar when I was about 17.

00:33:07Guest:But yeah, I just wanted to, I always wanted to do that.

00:33:12Guest:But I was also sideline studying theater, and I wanted to go to drama school, and then I got rejected from all universities in drama school.

00:33:18Marc:Really?

00:33:19Guest:Yeah, and so that's when I...

00:33:22Guest:Fuck them, right?

00:33:23Marc:You're on television.

00:33:24Marc:You're on TV, man.

00:33:26Guest:I'm a wrestler now.

00:33:27Marc:Yeah, fuck them.

00:33:29Guest:And I was working in a fast food restaurant and I just decided that I needed to do something because I was so bored.

00:33:36Marc:A fast food restaurant?

00:33:38Guest:Yeah.

00:33:38Marc:I don't want people to sound like a job is a job.

00:33:42Marc:It always sounds a little brutal.

00:33:44Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:33:46Marc:The repetition of it.

00:33:47Guest:Yeah.

00:33:47Guest:I mean, I found working in, like, a shop worse, actually.

00:33:50Marc:Because no one's coming in?

00:33:51Guest:Because it's just so, like, I don't know.

00:33:54Guest:There's something about the way that you're, like, you're treated in a shop like that.

00:33:58Marc:Well, yeah, because, like, you know, people have to come in there and make choices.

00:34:01Marc:With fast food, it's like, yeah, you know what we got.

00:34:04Marc:Yeah.

00:34:04Marc:It's right up there.

00:34:06Guest:How many do you want of them?

00:34:07Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:34:07Guest:Yeah.

00:34:08Marc:It's not like, will this fade?

00:34:10Marc:Yeah.

00:34:11I don't know.

00:34:11Yeah.

00:34:11Marc:Do you want the shirt?

00:34:12Guest:I think I got brought in for a meeting about a clothes hanger once.

00:34:16Guest:And I was like, this is really the lowest point for me.

00:34:19Guest:That's terrible.

00:34:19Marc:Retail?

00:34:20Marc:Rough.

00:34:20Guest:Yeah, retail's really rough.

00:34:23Guest:So I was afraid of doing a gig, but I became so bored that fear was interesting, at least.

00:34:29Guest:So I could go, well, at least I'm going to feel scared and that'll be fun.

00:34:33Marc:Oh, so you were so bored and you wanted to do music.

00:34:38Guest:Yeah, but I was too scared.

00:34:38Marc:Too scared, but then it was one of those things where it's sort of like, but that could never end.

00:34:43Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:34:45Marc:So what did you do?

00:34:47Guest:So I printed off like, printed off, I burnt a CD with like my demos I'd been making on my laptop, and I took it to the local like bar, indie like club, and I said I wanna play a gig, and I started a music MySpace account.

00:35:01Guest:Oh, and I'd broken my foot at this point.

00:35:03Guest:So it was like, I had all this time to like work on like the music and the- How'd you break your foot?

00:35:08Guest:Fell down the stairs.

00:35:09Marc:In your house?

00:35:10Marc:Yeah.

00:35:10Guest:Okay.

00:35:12Guest:And so then I got, I was like a soon, it was kind of a thing where it was like, I like making deals with someone or myself as soon as-

00:35:22Guest:No, it was like as soon as my foot is healed, I'm going to do my first gig.

00:35:26Guest:Like that's what's going to happen.

00:35:28Guest:So then I did that.

00:35:29Guest:And then I just played that first show.

00:35:32Guest:And I was like, this is the best thing ever.

00:35:35Marc:So you started the MySpace account because I remember MySpace.

00:35:39Marc:And I was on there, but I never really got the hang of it.

00:35:41Marc:It seemed like a lot of maintenance.

00:35:43Marc:It wasn't as good for comedians as it was for musicians.

00:35:48Guest:It was amazing for music.

00:35:49Marc:Is it still out there?

00:35:50Guest:No, it's completely.

00:35:51Guest:They've lost everything, actually.

00:35:52Guest:But I think that it is the freest thing that we've ever had for music careers.

00:36:00Marc:As a musician, it was as honest as the internet could be, because you could just put it up there.

00:36:05Marc:There was no sponsors.

00:36:06Guest:There was no one in control.

00:36:08Guest:Literally, kids were just listening to stuff.

00:36:10Marc:And there wasn't other platforms.

00:36:12Guest:Yeah.

00:36:12Guest:And there was.

00:36:13Marc:Really?

00:36:14Guest:I got emailed by lawyers, record labels, managers all came through DMs on MySpace.

00:36:20Marc:Because they liked your music because it was picking up.

00:36:22Guest:Because I was getting loads of plays and I was playing shows in London and they were getting a hyped period of time for me.

00:36:27Marc:So the first phase one was you made the CD.

00:36:30Marc:Phase two was you put it up on MySpace.

00:36:32Marc:And then how many songs did you put up there?

00:36:34Guest:You could put four.

00:36:35Guest:At first, you could only put four.

00:36:36Marc:And so you put four up and it started to happen.

00:36:39Guest:Yeah.

00:36:40Marc:And then you could actually, because it was starting to happen, you could say like, well, I'm playing at this place.

00:36:44Marc:So they would go see you.

00:36:46Guest:People would start coming, yeah.

00:36:47Guest:And I had really good friends as well that were coming.

00:36:50Guest:I think one of the key things in music scenes is friends jumping on top of their bands.

00:36:57Guest:Because if you go to a show and it's so hot, like the first few shows are so exciting because there's a bunch of people really keen supporting this person.

00:37:05Guest:Then other people get involved because of that.

00:37:07Guest:I think all bands that I can think of that I know of in this period of time, all their friends were going.

00:37:14Guest:It became like a really fun night out that everyone just wanted to be at.

00:37:17Guest:And that's how scenes start.

00:37:19Marc:So you were part of the scene?

00:37:21Guest:Yeah, like the sort of 2007, there was a lot of like UK artists doing like a very British storytelling style of music and like playing gigs.

00:37:30Marc:Are there other ones that people would know?

00:37:32Guest:Like Jamie T. Yeah.

00:37:34Guest:Like Lily Allen, Adele, like, you know, Florence, like all these people.

00:37:37Marc:Do you know Adele?

00:37:38Guest:I went to school with Adele.

00:37:39Marc:You did?

00:37:39Guest:Yeah.

00:37:40Marc:Where?

00:37:40Guest:She was in the year below me at Brit school.

00:37:43Marc:Really?

00:37:43Marc:Did you know her?

00:37:44Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:37:44Guest:I knew Adele.

00:37:45Guest:I mean, everyone kind of knew Adele because she was always like an amazing singer and like singing around the school and stuff, so...

00:37:50Marc:You know, I don't know a lot of her music, but I know that I like her.

00:37:55Guest:That's all you need tonight, then.

00:37:56Marc:I don't know why.

00:37:56Marc:I mean, I'm not alone, obviously, but I've heard her sing a few times, but it's sort of one of these things like, do I want to investigate that more?

00:38:03Marc:I don't know.

00:38:04Marc:Okay.

00:38:06Marc:Like, there was a moment there, I'm like, I have to get all of Adele's records.

00:38:11Guest:for the room downstairs yeah exactly all right so that's all going on and you're kind of part of that you're in it or on the fringes of it or it's happening on all levels we were all like at the same shows i mean there's more people i have did you know lily allen the kooks as well yeah you knew her i didn't know her like really well but it was like we knew each other yeah yeah like everyone kind of knew each other because you're just like young people playing the same venues and like you know lily allen like had me in her top eight and stuff at the beginning and stuff like that and um

00:38:39Marc:So you're all supporting each other.

00:38:40Guest:Yeah, it was communal feeling.

00:38:42Guest:It was like a community, which is really nice.

00:38:45Marc:And so you released Foundations as a single?

00:38:49Guest:I released a 7-inch that had a song, Caroline's a Victim and Birds.

00:38:53Guest:And it was like vinyl.

00:38:54Marc:That was the first one.

00:38:55Guest:Yeah.

00:38:55Guest:And then I released... My first gig was 2006.

00:38:58Guest:It was like April 13th, 2006.

00:39:00Guest:And then Foundations came out in like...

00:39:03Guest:I don't know what month, but June-ish 2007.

00:39:05Marc:So you didn't have a record.

00:39:06Marc:But you didn't have a record.

00:39:07Marc:You had to put together a record, right?

00:39:09Marc:The first two songs were two of the four songs you put on MySpace?

00:39:12Guest:Yeah.

00:39:13Guest:And then I had probably like eight songs.

00:39:17Guest:I mean, you had to have eight songs to play a set list.

00:39:19Guest:So it was like I had about eight songs.

00:39:21Guest:And then I recorded the record, and then it came out in like

00:39:25Guest:I think it was like the summer of 2007.

00:39:27Guest:And then that blew up.

00:39:29Guest:So it was like a quick, crazy turnaround for me.

00:39:33Guest:And it was very strange.

00:39:34Marc:And I listened to the stories.

00:39:36Marc:Foundations, that seemed like a difficult relationship.

00:39:40Marc:Were you writing from your life?

00:39:41Guest:No.

00:39:42Marc:Okay.

00:39:42Guest:i wasn't in a relationship oh i mean i was in relationships but not really oh but like i was always like i feel like i was just storytelling you know sure i didn't have like some experience yeah yeah like i i uh i think it's like if you're so you know like i was studying theater and just interested in like

00:40:07Marc:life oh yeah no i get it yeah i mean like it took me a long time to realize that when people write songs it's not all about them yeah not always yeah i mean it kind of devastated me i want it i want when i hear a song like i listen to jason isbo or nicolo or somebody and i'm like that's not you and they're like no we can make up people

00:40:26Marc:what but sometimes it's you and sometimes it's not and sometimes there's like little things that are you of course yeah because you're writing it yeah so the first record was called what made of bricks made of bricks yeah and it went it was huge yeah number one so that's great so now you've got an agent you've got a label you got a manager got a lot of people taking your money yeah people know you on the street yeah you're like a star right doing big gigs

00:40:52Guest:Yeah, 10,000 capacity.

00:40:53Marc:Come on, just to see you?

00:40:55Marc:Yeah.

00:40:55Marc:10,000 people are like, we're going to see Kate.

00:40:58Guest:Yeah, I sold out Hammersmith Apollo, yeah.

00:41:00Guest:What?

00:41:01Guest:Yeah.

00:41:02Marc:That's great.

00:41:03Guest:I mean, it was like very overwhelming.

00:41:05Guest:I think I- How old were you?

00:41:07Guest:19.

00:41:09Marc:Wow.

00:41:11Guest:Something, I don't know, around that age.

00:41:13Guest:And I think it was a little much for me then.

00:41:16Marc:I think so.

00:41:17Marc:Did you have a combo together or was it just you on piano?

00:41:19Marc:Did you put a band together?

00:41:20Guest:I had a band, yeah.

00:41:21Guest:I had a band.

00:41:22Marc:Drummer?

00:41:22Guest:Yeah, drummer, bass, keys, guitar.

00:41:25Marc:It's a real band.

00:41:26Guest:Yeah.

00:41:27Guest:And we had a lot of fun traveling the world together, don't get me wrong, but it did get a little much.

00:41:33Marc:In what way?

00:41:34Guest:Like, I just remember like, I mean, I just got worked like a donkey.

00:41:39Marc:By the label.

00:41:41Guest:Yeah, and toured like crazy.

00:41:43Guest:And I was not in hands that were like, I don't think anybody asked me, how are you?

00:41:48Guest:Are you okay?

00:41:49Guest:Like there's things I should have, but like, there was no time off.

00:41:52Guest:I would go on like a six week tour on a bus in America.

00:41:55Marc:And you're veganing?

00:41:56Marc:You're vegan yet?

00:41:57Guest:No, I wasn't vegan yet.

00:41:58Marc:Oh yeah.

00:41:59Marc:So you're eating shitty.

00:42:00Guest:Eating shit food across America.

00:42:01Marc:Drugs.

00:42:02Guest:Not really.

00:42:04Guest:Like drinking a lot though.

00:42:05Marc:Yeah.

00:42:06Guest:And then.

00:42:07Marc:So you toured the States because it was, was the record big here?

00:42:09Guest:It wasn't big.

00:42:11Guest:I mean, America is so big.

00:42:12Guest:It's hard.

00:42:12Guest:Like it's, it wasn't like big, big, but I was like selling out shows and paying to like 3000 people.

00:42:18Marc:That's great.

00:42:20Marc:This is 2007.

00:42:21Guest:2007 into 2008.

00:42:22Guest:And I just kind of like got exhausted.

00:42:27Guest:It was just like pure exhaustion and like felt insane and burnt out.

00:42:32Guest:I remember my last show of the whole two years.

00:42:35Guest:I didn't think I could even sing.

00:42:37Guest:I remember just being like, like thinking, how do I get through this?

00:42:41Guest:And just wanting to like die afterwards.

00:42:43Marc:And that's when you went home and bought the rabbit?

00:42:46Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:42:47Marc:So were you having a, like, when did it, how did it stop?

00:42:54Guest:I just got, I mean, two years is kind of as much as you can really tour something, really.

00:42:58Marc:Okay, so it had a natural life.

00:42:59Guest:It came to a, you do like two summer sort of festivals and you've toured everywhere twice.

00:43:04Guest:You can't really like go and do another tour, you know.

00:43:06Marc:Once a year, yeah.

00:43:07Guest:You have a new album.

00:43:08Guest:Right, got to go make a new record.

00:43:09Marc:Yeah, 18 months to two years.

00:43:10Guest:So they knew that.

00:43:11Guest:Yes, so they're like, go make a record.

00:43:13Guest:I'm like, I don't even know if I want to make music ever again.

00:43:15Guest:I hate everything.

00:43:17Guest:I don't even know.

00:43:17Marc:Who's pressuring you?

00:43:18Marc:The label?

00:43:20Guest:No, there wasn't so much.

00:43:23Guest:I mean, looking back, I'm kind of like, it's just weird to think how young I was around all these older men, and none of them were like, how you doing?

00:43:30Guest:Or do you need some mentor?

00:43:32Guest:Or how can we help you?

00:43:33Guest:It was more like...

00:43:35Guest:I think I just was like, I need to take time to just decide what I want to do.

00:43:38Guest:And I need to find that feel like this is mine again.

00:43:42Guest:Because I felt a bit like, I don't know if you've had this, but when I had the first experience of doing it, just doing the same interviews.

00:43:49Guest:And I mean, what did I have more to say?

00:43:51Guest:I've had one record, played the same songs every night.

00:43:54Guest:I was young.

00:43:55Guest:I didn't have like so much more that I could give.

00:43:59Marc:Sounds like hell after a little while.

00:44:00Guest:Yeah, and then you start to feel like, I was like, do I even like music?

00:44:04Guest:I think I'm lying.

00:44:05Guest:I don't even like it.

00:44:06Marc:Yeah, I have that conversation about everything, every day.

00:44:09Marc:Yeah.

00:44:09Marc:Like, yeah, what am I doing?

00:44:10Marc:Yeah, like this, do I?

00:44:12Marc:Who am I?

00:44:12Marc:I'm a fake.

00:44:12Marc:And here we are doing it.

00:44:13Marc:Yeah.

00:44:15Marc:I have those conversations all the time.

00:44:17Marc:Yeah.

00:44:18Marc:But then, like, what's the alternative?

00:44:19Marc:Just sitting around going like...

00:44:21Marc:This is much better doing nothing.

00:44:23Guest:The worst is like, I think worse than that is when you're really struggling.

00:44:28Guest:I've had the worst feeling I feel like I had was when I was like, the world is almost like screaming at me to stop doing this.

00:44:35Guest:Nothing's going right.

00:44:37Guest:Yeah, nothing's happening.

00:44:39Guest:No one's really supporting you.

00:44:40Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:44:41Guest:But you're going to keep doing it anyway, aren't you?

00:44:44Marc:Well, you get too far in.

00:44:45Guest:You're not going to give up because it's like.

00:44:47Marc:But give up what?

00:44:48Marc:It's just like, what are you going to do?

00:44:49Marc:Go back to the fast food place?

00:44:51Guest:But I mean, there's other options in there.

00:44:53Marc:I guess, but not in my mind.

00:44:54Guest:Not in my mind either, but that's the thing.

00:44:56Guest:It's like, you're not a normal person.

00:44:58Marc:Right.

00:44:58Guest:And you're like, you have a dream and you have like a passion and you have art and you care about something.

00:45:04Marc:Or you've just been doing it a long time.

00:45:06Marc:Right.

00:45:06Guest:You don't want to admit that you do, but you do.

00:45:08Marc:Well, no, it's like I chose something and it took years to, you know, and I, but it sort of fit in with my particular mindset.

00:45:15Marc:Yeah.

00:45:15Marc:And my life.

00:45:16Marc:Yeah.

00:45:17Marc:Do you know what I mean?

00:45:18Marc:Yeah.

00:45:19Marc:So my whole life adapted to it.

00:45:21Guest:Yeah.

00:45:21Marc:You know, even before I had any success, it was sort of, you know, it's an unusual life.

00:45:27Guest:Definitely.

00:45:27Marc:But I don't know how to operate it real, regular life.

00:45:29Guest:No, neither do I. And I've tried and I just, this doesn't happen.

00:45:33Guest:Yeah.

00:45:34Guest:I don't know how to do it.

00:45:35Guest:I actually don't know how to fucking do it.

00:45:38Guest:And I've tried desperation, needing to pay rent, like being in extreme debt, thinking, get me out of this.

00:45:47Guest:Like just, just even for a little bit, like how do I function?

00:45:50Guest:How does a normal person?

00:45:51Guest:I look at friends.

00:45:52Guest:I'm like, how do they do that?

00:45:53Guest:How do they like, how do I get into that?

00:45:54Guest:Like, how do I get work?

00:45:55Guest:Yeah.

00:45:55Guest:Like, how do you do it?

00:45:56Guest:And I just don't know.

00:45:57Guest:I didn't find out.

00:46:00Marc:But luckily, it worked out.

00:46:02Guest:Luckily.

00:46:02Guest:Luckily, it worked out.

00:46:04Marc:Well, yeah, there's some bad times.

00:46:06Marc:But, I mean, I imagine having those times, you know, after you've had tremendous success, that's got to be the worst.

00:46:13Marc:Like, for me, it was like a real slow build.

00:46:15Marc:Like, you know, I didn't...

00:46:16Marc:I've always been able to manage some sort of income in the world that I'm in.

00:46:25Marc:But it never fell out entirely where I made a bunch of money.

00:46:29Marc:I've always thought it could.

00:46:30Marc:Yeah, it can.

00:46:32Marc:I know it.

00:46:33Guest:Not even because of you.

00:46:35Guest:You know what I mean?

00:46:35Marc:It just goes away.

00:46:36Marc:See, I think about it all the time.

00:46:37Marc:Some people are going to steal my money.

00:46:39Guest:Yeah, they can.

00:46:40Guest:That happens to so many people.

00:46:41Marc:What happened to you?

00:46:43Marc:So you do the first record.

00:46:44Marc:You're losing your mind.

00:46:44Marc:You buy a rabbit.

00:46:45Marc:You get magical.

00:46:46Marc:You turn into a vegan.

00:46:48Marc:Do you write?

00:46:49Marc:How do you make another record?

00:46:53Guest:So I carry on like that or the second record for a while.

00:46:56Marc:What do you mean?

00:46:56Marc:You were able to write the second record?

00:46:58Guest:Yeah, I did.

00:46:58Guest:I booked like a shitty rehearsal room that I loved and I just like wrote songs and I was like, I'm just going to find the fun in this again.

00:47:05Guest:But it kind of carried on, you know, same kind of vibe.

00:47:08Guest:And then by the end of that, I... The record was similar?

00:47:11Guest:No, the record wasn't similar, but I just felt like it was kind of like the pattern.

00:47:15Guest:It was like write and then tour for 18 months or whatever.

00:47:18Marc:Lose your mind.

00:47:18Guest:Lose your mind, do it again.

00:47:19Guest:I'm like, this is my life.

00:47:20Guest:This is what happens.

00:47:21Guest:This is how it's always going to be.

00:47:22Marc:And the money's coming in.

00:47:23Guest:The money's coming in.

00:47:24Guest:Yeah.

00:47:25Guest:Which I have no concept of either because I'm fucking like 20.

00:47:28Marc:I mean, what?

00:47:31Guest:I don't even know.

00:47:32Guest:I don't think about it.

00:47:33Marc:I used to have more of a concept when I did it myself.

00:47:35Marc:But at some point, you can't manage shit.

00:47:37Marc:You can't.

00:47:37Marc:And you hire somebody.

00:47:38Marc:And then you really have no concept.

00:47:39Marc:I hope those guys are good guys.

00:47:42Marc:Fingers crossed.

00:47:44Marc:I got to check and see how my money is.

00:47:46Marc:I'm going to call the money guy.

00:47:48Guest:I'll ask those guys.

00:47:49Guest:And then they could also just tell me what they want, I guess.

00:47:51Marc:It seems like we should have a handle on it, but okay, so how's the second album do?

00:47:56Guest:So it doesn't do as well, but it's still successful.

00:48:00Guest:I'm still touring.

00:48:02Guest:And then I go through this crazy breakup, relationship breakup, and I'm like,

00:48:08Marc:What'd that guy do?

00:48:10Guest:I just had a very specific taste in not being in healthy relationships with people that liked me, really.

00:48:18Marc:Explain that.

00:48:21Marc:So you just end up with people that liked you as opposed to you liking them?

00:48:25Guest:I ended up with a lot of people that liked drugs a lot more than they liked me.

00:48:27Guest:How'd that happen?

00:48:32Guest:I don't know.

00:48:32Guest:I think if when you're young you get into a relationship like that,

00:48:37Marc:Are you a codependent person?

00:48:39Marc:An enabler?

00:48:41Guest:I think, I don't know.

00:48:42Guest:I don't actually know.

00:48:44Guest:I think I just like, I met the first relationship I got in was like that.

00:48:49Guest:And then it like feels normal.

00:48:50Guest:And then you're just like, this is what a relationship is.

00:48:53Marc:Me telling a guy to stop doing drugs.

00:48:55Guest:Yeah.

00:48:59Yeah.

00:48:59Marc:That's how they work.

00:49:00Guest:And then suddenly I was like.

00:49:01Marc:And then he promises he will.

00:49:02Marc:And then he believes him.

00:49:03Marc:And then he doesn't.

00:49:04Guest:And then you just like break down your self-esteem.

00:49:08Guest:Yeah.

00:49:09Guest:Like dirt.

00:49:10Guest:And then you rise like a phoenix.

00:49:12Marc:Yeah.

00:49:12Marc:Great.

00:49:13Marc:Without ever really being intimate.

00:49:16Guest:Yeah.

00:49:17Marc:That's a lot of drama.

00:49:19Guest:It's completely a waste of time.

00:49:21Marc:And you win at the end because you get out.

00:49:23Guest:Right.

00:49:23Guest:If you get out, you win.

00:49:24Marc:Yeah.

00:49:25Marc:Great.

00:49:26Guest:So that was fun.

00:49:27Guest:Additional stress.

00:49:30Guest:But it was really freeing to like, you know, break up.

00:49:33Guest:And I sought out this producer, Tom Biller, who I love so much.

00:49:37Marc:Who's that guy?

00:49:38Guest:He's a producer.

00:49:39Guest:He worked on like Liars records and like a Warpaint record.

00:49:43Guest:And just he always did like different stuff.

00:49:45Marc:I like Warpaint.

00:49:46Marc:Yeah.

00:49:47Guest:he had done like so many different types of things and it all sounded really good and i just like asked to meet up with him and came to la and like met with him and i was like i want to make a record with you and then we just did and that was the third record and it was different right had a different sound different vibe different feel it was like grown up or what

00:50:05Guest:It was like a bit more raucous.

00:50:07Guest:It was like, you know, more punky.

00:50:09Marc:Who was in the band?

00:50:10Marc:Are you staying with the same musicians?

00:50:12Guest:Like some of my musicians had left for stuff they had going on in their lives.

00:50:16Guest:And then I like fired everyone and hired an all-girl band.

00:50:18Marc:Did you fire everyone like crazy firing?

00:50:21Marc:Like were you crazy?

00:50:22Guest:I fired a lot of people.

00:50:24Guest:Like a lot of people.

00:50:27Marc:Got a girl band together.

00:50:28Guest:Yeah, it was it was it was like just time to go.

00:50:31Guest:And this amazing girl band who is still like two of the girls are still with me now.

00:50:38Guest:They're just amazing.

00:50:39Guest:Linda Barato, Emma Hughes.

00:50:40Marc:Is this when you moved here?

00:50:42Guest:No, this was 2011.

00:50:43Guest:But this was my relationship with LA kind of beginning because I made the record here.

00:50:47Marc:i made it in silver lake in this mansion like that was a convent that's where we were recording it was a convent mansion yeah it wasn't like because i i know rick rubin has a house that he records and i think used to be charlie chaplin's house or something yeah somebody's house or if somebody you know something more this is one of those famous ones as well it's like the convent it's like up on michael terreno and it's like just amazing oh yeah that's nice famous studio now you mean

00:51:11Guest:there's like a lot of people yeah a lot of recordings have been done okay um and we made this record and it was just like this amazing kind of wild ride and then my label were coming out and saying you know yeah we love it and i like made all these videos yeah come home and i'm ready to like do the whole thing again and everyone's being kind of weird and i'm like i don't know what's going on like

00:51:34Guest:why aren't we kind of getting started and I've like gone through a couple managers at this point and I have this other manager now who's like being weird and so everyone's kind of like oh yeah yeah no no yeah we're gonna yeah oh no that town something's happening the slightly high pitch yeah yeah oh don't freak out

00:51:52Guest:The worst tone.

00:51:54Marc:It's the worst.

00:51:55Guest:Oh, no one told you?

00:51:57Guest:Well, then I get a text.

00:51:58Guest:My manager's going to talk to my, to like sign, you know, all we need to do is like sign the other part of the deal, which is like the pickup or whatever.

00:52:05Guest:You know, you get like signed for like five records and each time they can decide whether they're going to pick you up or throw you away.

00:52:10Guest:And so then I get a text from my manager going back to LA because she's from LA.

00:52:13Guest:And she's like, yeah, they didn't pick it up.

00:52:15Guest:So you've been dropped and I'm about to leave.

00:52:18Guest:I'm on a plane.

00:52:18Guest:So we'll talk.

00:52:20Guest:Good luck.

00:52:20Guest:And I'm like, what?

00:52:22Guest:I got dropped by my label by text and my manager was like, turning my phone off now, bye.

00:52:27Guest:And I was like, cool.

00:52:28Marc:The worst.

00:52:29Guest:I remember just sitting on my sofa and being like, very frustrated right now.

00:52:33Marc:So the record you just recorded had no home?

00:52:36Guest:Yeah.

00:52:37Marc:Yeah.

00:52:38Marc:Ugh.

00:52:38Guest:Yeah.

00:52:40Guest:So then I was angry.

00:52:43Guest:Yeah.

00:52:45Guest:Very angry.

00:52:45Guest:And that kind of fueled the whole journey because it was like.

00:52:50Marc:So they paid to record the fucking thing and then they just didn't put it out?

00:52:53Guest:No, I paid.

00:52:54Guest:I paid.

00:52:56Guest:I self-funded it because I was like, I want to make this now.

00:52:59Oh.

00:52:59Guest:And they hadn't like picked up the thing.

00:53:02Guest:So it's like a mixture of like me being like very headstrong and like needing to make the record then because I was like, I'm going to die if I don't make it now.

00:53:09Guest:And then my managers being like, yeah, we'll just do this.

00:53:11Guest:We'll cover it.

00:53:12Guest:And like bad management and just kind of...

00:53:15Marc:That's bad management.

00:53:15Marc:They let you spend your money.

00:53:17Marc:Yes.

00:53:17Guest:Yeah.

00:53:18Marc:That's like it seems to be rule one in management.

00:53:21Marc:Right.

00:53:21Marc:Let me figure out a way to make someone else pay for that.

00:53:23Guest:Yeah.

00:53:24Guest:Yeah.

00:53:25Guest:So.

00:53:25Guest:So then I'd like spent all this money on the record and they weren't paying it out.

00:53:29Guest:And then I was like, OK, I'm just going to fucking put it out then.

00:53:31Guest:And so I got distribution and put it out myself.

00:53:35Marc:What do you mean you got distribution?

00:53:36Marc:You got released?

00:53:37Guest:I just needed like a distributor.

00:53:38Guest:Oh, it's online.

00:53:39Marc:To like make the record and like produce them.

00:53:42Marc:An aggregator.

00:53:42Marc:Yeah.

00:53:43Guest:So I got that.

00:53:44Guest:And then we had like tours booked and I just like just went on the train and ride and just fucking rode the train.

00:53:50Marc:So you did actual vinyl or you mean you needed somebody to release it online?

00:53:53Guest:Yeah, there was vinyl.

00:53:54Guest:Both.

00:53:55Guest:Both.

00:53:55Guest:Like a distributor to make sure.

00:53:56Marc:So it was more your money.

00:53:58Guest:Yeah.

00:53:59Guest:Yeah.

00:54:00Marc:Yeah.

00:54:01Marc:So you dumped all your cash into it.

00:54:03Marc:Yeah.

00:54:04Marc:So you kept your manager.

00:54:05Guest:It's funny.

00:54:06Guest:No, I fired her the week before my album came out.

00:54:09Marc:So no one's representing you?

00:54:11Guest:So no one managed me.

00:54:12Marc:How'd you book the road gigs and shit?

00:54:14Guest:I had my agents.

00:54:15Marc:I did have my agents.

00:54:16Marc:I still had that.

00:54:16Marc:All right, all right.

00:54:19Guest:And then I got a new manager who kind of came in in this chaotic time.

00:54:23Marc:So you toured that record though?

00:54:25Guest:Yeah.

00:54:25Yeah.

00:54:25Marc:The third one, Girls Talk?

00:54:27Guest:Yes, I played Lollapalooza and Coachella in 2014.

00:54:30Guest:Like that goes right up to 2014.

00:54:31Marc:Oh, okay, okay.

00:54:32Marc:Yeah.

00:54:33Marc:But you went, so you did this record, you self-funded it, and you got it together, and then you toured, you ended up at Coachella, which is good.

00:54:41Guest:Yeah, Lolo was like the last gig we did.

00:54:44Marc:Okay, and then you go back to England?

00:54:46Guest:No, I went back to LA.

00:54:48Guest:I was like, I'm gonna move to LA.

00:54:50Marc:Oh, you just recorded.

00:54:51Marc:So you recorded in England, and you recorded here, you went back to England, and that's when they dropped you, and then you came back.

00:54:56Guest:Yes, and then I just kept coming back to LA, and it was like, I'm gonna be here.

00:54:59Guest:They just felt like I needed to be here.

00:55:01Marc:Yeah.

00:55:02Guest:So I moved.

00:55:04Marc:And that's where we start the story.

00:55:06Guest:Chapter one.

00:55:07Marc:Yeah, that was.

00:55:08Marc:And that's where everything.

00:55:09Guest:That was like the pre.

00:55:11Marc:So this is like, this is where the documentary picks you up.

00:55:15Marc:Yeah.

00:55:15Marc:And the only thing that's still, it seems like the only constant is the living bunny.

00:55:21Guest:Aw, yeah.

00:55:25Marc:Yeah.

00:55:26Marc:All right, so after that, you get a new manager.

00:55:33Marc:And the record sells or no?

00:55:35Marc:Does Girl Talk do...

00:55:37Guest:it does all right i'm really proud of that i was like i feel like i kept afloat that's how i felt afterwards made your money back no but well then i signed a publishing deal and so then i get money from that so i'm like okay i feel secure i'm financially secure i invested in all this publishing deal and then you got people putting your stuff on movies and tv shows well that's the that's the goal right so i get a big check of money to like live and i'm like yes like i'm okay in la worth it yeah you moved

00:56:04Guest:Yes, and then I try and do this like bullshit, like writing for other people thing.

00:56:09Guest:This is the worst thing anyone.

00:56:12Marc:What does that mean?

00:56:14Marc:Oh, through the publishing deal.

00:56:15Guest:It's the sausage factory of the music industry.

00:56:17Guest:It's like why every song sounds the same.

00:56:19Guest:So you pick an artist and you're going to try to.

00:56:22Guest:There's like a board and it's like, Jojo needs a song.

00:56:23Guest:Rihanna needs a song.

00:56:24Guest:And it's like, here's like three producers and you two writers and go in and try and write melodies.

00:56:28Guest:And everyone's like bickering over like.

00:56:29Marc:And you get that through the publishing?

00:56:31Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:56:31Guest:and i and i hate that it knocks my confidence like crazy because it's just it's just it's not why i do music it's not how i make music it's not how i write it's like it's like trying to hit it's like here's a metaphor here's a mushroom right let's come up with a bunch of like love metaphors and breakup metaphors about this mushroom and then like build like the the this has to be this many lines this is the pre this is the chorus here's the bridge and then and it's like a formulaic like

00:56:56Guest:yeah I hated it so much but if you nail one you can make some money that's what they're looking for yes yeah right if you get so and so to do the song it's always been like that yes yeah yeah but you really have to get like a song like you know it has to be like Justin Bieber because I wrote a song for like like Rita Ora and it was like that didn't really get any money like you know it has to be like big big big big right right

00:57:17Guest:And it was just like, my self-esteem's going down.

00:57:22Marc:Broke your spirit.

00:57:23Guest:Yeah, and I've got into another shit relationship.

00:57:26Marc:With another drug addict?

00:57:30Guest:Yeah.

00:57:30Marc:Would you just pick the nodding guy at the club?

00:57:34Guest:Oh, God.

00:57:35Guest:Yeah.

00:57:36Guest:Yeah.

00:57:37Guest:And like, I mean, I'm in the music industry.

00:57:41Guest:There's a lot of them out there.

00:57:42Guest:That's kind of like my colleagues.

00:57:44Guest:So it's all like self-esteem.

00:57:45Guest:I didn't even realize my self-esteem is going down and down and down.

00:57:48Guest:And I'm not really realizing it.

00:57:51Guest:And then I get into this humongous monetary dispute with a manager.

00:57:57Marc:One of the old ones?

00:57:58Marc:Which one?

00:57:59Marc:The one that came in?

00:58:00Guest:The first, second or third one?

00:58:02Guest:Probably like the fifth, but the one that came in.

00:58:04Marc:Oh, after you fired the one that texted you and then got on the plane?

00:58:08Guest:Yeah.

00:58:08Marc:So the fourth one or whatever.

00:58:10Marc:Yeah.

00:58:11Guest:Yeah.

00:58:12Guest:And then it just, you know, is like all my money's gone.

00:58:16Marc:Was it tour money?

00:58:17Marc:What money?

00:58:18Guest:It was my personal income had depleted hugely for mysterious reasons, Mark.

00:58:25Marc:Really?

00:58:25Guest:Yes.

00:58:28Marc:And you had to go to court?

00:58:29Guest:Yeah, but it was like three... I mean, I went to court when we were... I mean, I don't know what year that was.

00:58:34Guest:But it went on for like three... It went on for a long time.

00:58:37Guest:And I moved home.

00:58:41Guest:I couldn't pay rent.

00:58:42Guest:I moved home.

00:58:42Guest:I had no money.

00:58:43Guest:That's when I had that moment.

00:58:45Guest:You moved back to England?

00:58:46Marc:I moved back to England.

00:58:47Marc:2014 or 15?

00:58:47Guest:Yeah, I sold my house in London.

00:58:50Guest:It's like I had nothing.

00:58:51Guest:I had to deal with this tax bill on the publishing and it's all gone.

00:58:56Guest:And there's like... I'm like really...

00:58:59Marc:Tapped.

00:59:00Guest:Yeah, and then I fire the guy.

00:59:02Guest:I fire my manager.

00:59:03Marc:And you sold your house?

00:59:06Guest:Yeah, I've got nothing.

00:59:07Guest:To get even?

00:59:08Guest:I sell my house to pay the tax bill on the publishing deal.

00:59:12Marc:Are you out of debt?

00:59:14Guest:No, I'm like, I've got nothing.

00:59:16Guest:I'm fucked then, because I haven't even got my asset of my house.

00:59:18Marc:So you moved back in with your mother?

00:59:20Guest:So I moved back in with my mom.

00:59:23Guest:I remember the worst day where I'm like lying on my bed.

00:59:26Guest:I was lying on my sister's bed.

00:59:27Guest:I was in my sister's room.

00:59:28Guest:And I was just really still.

00:59:30Guest:And I just remember being like, I just need to be really still right now.

00:59:33Guest:Because I can't like tip.

00:59:35Guest:Nothing can tip over right now.

00:59:36Guest:Everything has to stay really still.

00:59:38Guest:My mom comes in.

00:59:39Guest:She was like, are you okay?

00:59:40Guest:And I was like, I just need to be alone right now.

00:59:43Guest:I just need to be really still.

00:59:44Guest:Like, please don't ask me any questions.

00:59:46Guest:She's like, okay, I'm okay.

00:59:47Guest:Just gonna lie here.

00:59:49Guest:And I just like froze.

00:59:52Guest:And I like couldn't go any, I couldn't, I just like stayed there.

00:59:56Marc:Paralyzed.

00:59:57Guest:Yeah, paralyzed.

00:59:58Paralyzed.

00:59:59Marc:So worse.

01:00:00Guest:Yeah, it's bad because like with the guttural emotion, you're like moving, but this was like,

01:00:07Guest:everything is still so I just stay here how long did you stay there a week yes and then I mean I fucking auditioned for GLOW and a month later I'm back in LA

01:00:20Marc:Oh, my God.

01:00:22Guest:And Glow saves my fucking life.

01:00:23Marc:Did you spin out, like, in L.A., though, before you moved back?

01:00:27Guest:Oh, it was terrible.

01:00:28Guest:It was terrible.

01:00:30Guest:It was months of, like, lying on the floor, phone calls with business managers, phone calls with lawyers, phone calls with, like, trying to make this person responsible, trying to get my money back, trying... Did you come unraveled?

01:00:50Guest:Yeah, very much so.

01:00:51Guest:Yeah.

01:00:52Marc:So you lost it and you went home.

01:00:54Guest:It was fucking terrible.

01:00:55Marc:It was.

01:00:56Marc:Okay, so then you're home, you're on the bed.

01:00:59Guest:I look at myself, okay, in the dock, and I don't know.

01:01:02Guest:I'm like, that person looks so different to me.

01:01:06Guest:And it's like the stress that you carry through that shit is in my arm.

01:01:10Guest:It's like the way I walk.

01:01:11Guest:It's like everything's off.

01:01:14Guest:And then at the end of the movie, it's kind of like, oh, there I am.

01:01:17Marc:Yeah.

01:01:17Guest:Yeah.

01:01:18Guest:Wow.

01:01:18Marc:Well, it's lucky.

01:01:19Marc:See, that's good that you, but your mom must have been helpful in a way.

01:01:22Guest:I'm so lucky I have a family.

01:01:23Guest:I mean, I was never going to end up on the streets like I have a family who would take me in and like.

01:01:28Marc:And they're not like, they were probably always a little hesitant about show business anyway.

01:01:31Guest:Yes.

01:01:32Marc:Yeah.

01:01:32Guest:Yeah.

01:01:33Guest:My mom like doesn't give a fuck if I do this or not for like her sake.

01:01:37Guest:She like wants me to do whatever I want to do and be happy.

01:01:39Guest:And actually this world terrifies her for like very sensible reasons.

01:01:44Marc:So you were there and you went home and then you auditioned for Glow while you were in England?

01:01:48Guest:Yeah, I do a tape for Jen Houston.

01:01:51Marc:Yeah.

01:01:52Guest:And I'm like, I mean, I need this.

01:01:54Guest:I fucking, this is my.

01:01:56Marc:Did you make another rabbit deal?

01:01:59Guest:I just like, God, I don't know.

01:02:01Guest:I just felt like I needed.

01:02:03Marc:I won't need it all if you let me get close.

01:02:08Guest:I just knew it was mine.

01:02:09Guest:I knew it was mine.

01:02:10Guest:I knew it was mine.

01:02:11Marc:That's so great.

01:02:12Guest:Yeah.

01:02:13Marc:And then there we were.

01:02:14Guest:I knew it was mine.

01:02:14Guest:And then fucking a month later, I'm in a fucking ring learning how to wrestle.

01:02:18Guest:And that's kind of what builds my confidence is like around these amazing women.

01:02:24Guest:And we learn to wrestle together.

01:02:25Guest:Yeah.

01:02:26Guest:And like, fuck me.

01:02:27Guest:Like that is one way to deal with the shit.

01:02:29Marc:I remember like the first season, like, you know, when everyone was getting to know each other, weren't you going through, didn't you have another dude?

01:02:34Guest:Right, well, that carried on for a little longer than it should have, yeah.

01:02:37Marc:Oh, that was the dude from When You Lost Your Shit?

01:02:42Marc:Same dude?

01:02:43Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:02:44Marc:Because I remember that was a problem for a while.

01:02:47Guest:Yeah.

01:02:49Marc:Didn't he?

01:02:49Marc:I think he came to set once, didn't he?

01:02:52Oh, God!

01:02:55Guest:Yes, it was a problematic relationship that went on way longer than it should have.

01:02:59Marc:I'm getting them confused, though, because Mariana brought some dude.

01:03:02Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:03:03Marc:That dude, a hairy dude.

01:03:04Marc:Was yours a hairy dude?

01:03:05Guest:No, no, no.

01:03:06Guest:That was Mariana's.

01:03:07Marc:Yeah.

01:03:08Guest:There was a few dodgy glow dudes around for the first season, for sure.

01:03:12Guest:And I think, honestly, the confidence I gained from the show... Yeah.

01:03:18Marc:gave me the confidence to like go i need to be treated better you know like and i am going to like stop this pattern yeah i think it seemed like the the show worked that way for a lot of people it changed like yeah in in in among you women yeah you know i mean you know it was good for me you know i was happy to have the gig but i definitely saw some sort of

01:03:43Marc:sisterhood evolving where a lot of people were going through some rough times.

01:03:47Marc:I mean, it seemed like you were, and I guess Kia has her problems with physical problems and whatnot, but there was definitely stuff going on in that community over near those trailers.

01:04:01Guest:Glow Alley.

01:04:02Marc:Yeah.

01:04:03Marc:Where I'd kind of walk by.

01:04:04Marc:I'm like, all right.

01:04:05Marc:Well, they're talking.

01:04:06Marc:I hope everything's okay over there.

01:04:09Marc:You know?

01:04:09Marc:Yeah.

01:04:10Marc:So, all right.

01:04:10Marc:So then you, did you just conscience, consciously kind of not because you had the gig.

01:04:17Hmm.

01:04:18Marc:Did you consciously sort of like not pressure yourself to make more music or where were you at with that?

01:04:22Guest:So, yeah, I focused on that.

01:04:24Guest:And then after Glow season one finished, I was like, okay, I'm going to put out this record that I've been like unraveling making over these however many years I was like frozen in time for, which was like three years or whatever.

01:04:39Guest:And I piece it all together and I make an album.

01:04:44Guest:And then I just like spent those however many months we're like not doing Glow.

01:04:49Guest:I do a Kickstarter campaign.

01:04:50Marc:Like six, five or six months, right?

01:04:52Marc:Yeah.

01:04:52Marc:Or no, like, yeah, we'd shoot for like three and a half, four months.

01:04:55Marc:And then until we do press, you know, there's, you know, definitely five or six months.

01:04:59Guest:Yeah.

01:05:00Guest:So I toured and got back on the road, got back in the van.

01:05:03Marc:In Europe?

01:05:04Guest:Yeah, and America.

01:05:06Guest:I did a tour in America.

01:05:07Marc:How was the draw?

01:05:08Marc:How did you sell?

01:05:09Guest:Yeah, really good.

01:05:11Marc:So that's nice that that didn't get sad.

01:05:12Guest:I'm very lucky that I have a fan base who sticks by me through everything.

01:05:16Marc:That's great.

01:05:17Guest:And I've toured a lot over the years of however many fucking years I've been doing this, like 13 years.

01:05:22Marc:And you're going out with new material now?

01:05:24Marc:Yeah.

01:05:25Marc:Oh, that's so good that you're not showing up and you're like, well, we had to go to a smaller place.

01:05:29Guest:Well, it's like the thing about the reality of like the middle class of the working of the music industry is like some days you're in big venues and some days you're in tiny venues.

01:05:38Marc:I know it's the same with comedy.

01:05:39Marc:Yeah.

01:05:39Guest:It's like, you know, I think that that's something that really needs to be admitted and out there is like some days you are playing to like 3,000 people and sometimes you're playing to like not many people and you're like trying to, that's kind of.

01:05:50Marc:But not many, like what does that mean to you?

01:05:51Marc:Are you talking 40 or are you talking 200?

01:05:54Guest:Not 40, not 40, like 200.

01:05:55Marc:Yeah.

01:05:56Marc:Right.

01:05:56Guest:But you go in and out of that.

01:05:58Guest:It's always a battle to keep drawing people in because there's so much out there.

01:06:04Marc:And you have just to get them to know you're going to be in town.

01:06:07Guest:The amount of times I've been blasting it on social media and then I play in Denver and the next day someone comments, when are you coming to Denver?

01:06:14Guest:And I'm like, fuck you!

01:06:16Marc:I don't know if those people are doing that on purpose, but I get that too.

01:06:19Marc:It's like, do I need to- What is that?

01:06:20Guest:I don't know, but I- Is it like a mess up in the algorithm?

01:06:23Marc:But it's so funny.

01:06:23Marc:I have the same anger.

01:06:25Marc:Like, you know, somehow it's their fault.

01:06:26Marc:It's like I did everything I could other than call you.

01:06:30Guest:Yeah.

01:06:33Marc:So I can't, I don't know what to tell you.

01:06:35Guest:Yeah.

01:06:35Marc:Pay attention.

01:06:36Marc:I've been talking, I've been announcing it on my show for three months.

01:06:40Yeah.

01:06:41Marc:Not my fault.

01:06:42Guest:That's so good that you can do that, though, and announce all your stuff on here.

01:06:45Marc:Yeah, but still, you still get people.

01:06:46Marc:It's like, I don't know when you come and do it.

01:06:48Marc:They don't pay attention.

01:06:50Marc:It's their fault.

01:06:51Marc:But you do get mad at them, and it's not really.

01:06:53Marc:It's like, what the fuck?

01:06:54Marc:What kind of fan are you?

01:06:55Guest:Are you an idiot?

01:06:56Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:57Marc:What do I got to do?

01:06:58Guest:Yeah.

01:06:59Marc:Well, that's good that they stayed with you.

01:07:01Marc:So over the two or three seasons of GLOW, you're able to run this material and then finally lay it down, huh?

01:07:08Guest:Yeah.

01:07:08Guest:And I mean, I just toured this summer in England at festivals and we had amazing shows.

01:07:13Guest:And I guess I'm finally at this clearing where I've dealt with all the years of the shit that's been going on.

01:07:23Guest:And now I feel...

01:07:26Marc:i'm like okay i can kind of decide what i want to do now did you get on your feet financially and everything that's great yeah i mean with glow and then we've got one more season it's nice that we know yeah that we've got this season but it's also nice to know it's the last one as opposed to like waiting every year right you know kind of half ending it every year oh god yeah yeah and then just sort of like well if we didn't get another one that's okay to end there yeah but now they can really end it right you know they're gonna end it right

01:07:52Marc:I think so.

01:07:53Marc:I have no idea how I even fit in anymore.

01:07:55Marc:I'm making a movie with my daughter.

01:07:57Marc:I don't know what.

01:07:58Marc:How does everyone come back together?

01:07:59Guest:They're going to figure it out.

01:08:01Marc:All right.

01:08:01Marc:I know they will.

01:08:02Guest:Yeah.

01:08:03Guest:I know what you mean.

01:08:03Guest:I'm like, I feel it's very emotional, Glo.

01:08:07Marc:I know, but like what's going to happen with you and Bash?

01:08:09Guest:I know.

01:08:10Marc:How does that?

01:08:10Guest:What's going to happen?

01:08:12Marc:I don't know.

01:08:12Marc:I think maybe he comes out fully.

01:08:15Guest:Do you think?

01:08:16Guest:I think Ronda would accept him.

01:08:18Marc:Yeah.

01:08:18Guest:I feel like he could.

01:08:19Guest:He should.

01:08:20Guest:I hope he does.

01:08:21Marc:Yeah.

01:08:22Guest:Yeah.

01:08:23Marc:But, like, if they can end it where we all get different jobs.

01:08:27Marc:You know what I mean?

01:08:29Marc:Like, there's, like, one more wrestling thing, and then we all... And then we all separate.

01:08:33Marc:And then they cut to... Maybe the last episode is just, like, 10 years from now.

01:08:37Guest:Oh, my God.

01:08:37Guest:I hope that we also do a Glow movie in, like, 20 years.

01:08:40Yeah.

01:08:40Marc:Right.

01:08:41Marc:Well, you know, we do have that option.

01:08:43Marc:Like they, because it's the 80s, you can literally, they can do an episode.

01:08:47Marc:The last episode could be us five years down the line in 1992 or three.

01:08:53Guest:It's so crazy to think of it being over because it's been such a huge, like...

01:08:57Guest:life-saving thing in so many ways.

01:09:01Marc:It happens in a weird space for me because last season I was sort of off on my own and I wasn't shooting as much.

01:09:07Marc:So it was sort of, it happened in sort of a dream state.

01:09:10Marc:And then when I saw it, I'm like, oh yeah, I did that.

01:09:14Marc:I didn't even remember it happening.

01:09:16Marc:I was so skinny.

01:09:19Marc:I saw that weight and I'm like, how come no one asked if Sam has cancer?

01:09:23Marc:He's so skinny.

01:09:26Guest:Because you're on a diet.

01:09:27Marc:I know.

01:09:28Marc:But I just wanted to lose a few pounds so I didn't get fat during the show.

01:09:32Marc:And then it felt so good to lose the weight.

01:09:34Guest:And so you just kind of got into it.

01:09:35Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:09:37Marc:Yeah, that was, I like, you know, it feels good, that control thing.

01:09:40Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:09:41Marc:All right, so this record is out now.

01:09:43Marc:Did a label do this or did you do it?

01:09:46Guest:No, this is me.

01:09:47Marc:Oh, and that works for you, huh?

01:09:49Marc:And it's selling okay?

01:09:50Guest:At the moment, yeah.

01:09:52Guest:I feel like that's what I mean at this new place where I'm like, what do I do next?

01:09:59Guest:Do I do another record on my own?

01:10:00Guest:I can do that.

01:10:02Marc:Who produced it?

01:10:04Guest:Multiple people, actually, because this was like a sort of scrap heap record.

01:10:07Marc:Yesterday was forever.

01:10:08Marc:Yes.

01:10:09Marc:And it's a picture of you.

01:10:10Marc:It looks like Joshua Tree.

01:10:11Marc:Yeah, it was in Joshua Tree.

01:10:13Marc:Who's this guy, Jared?

01:10:15Guest:Jared is awesome.

01:10:17Guest:I did like a few songs with him.

01:10:18Marc:Who's he?

01:10:19Guest:He's a, he lived in LA and we just did session.

01:10:22Guest:We got put together on like a very annoying, like writing camp thing.

01:10:25Guest:And then we just clicked.

01:10:26Marc:A writing camp?

01:10:28Marc:Yeah.

01:10:28Marc:Who put you, what do you mean?

01:10:29Guest:Like those like sausage factory things where you're like, oh, right.

01:10:32Marc:Yeah.

01:10:32Marc:Oh yeah.

01:10:33Guest:But then we just like liked each other and we're both not really liking that world.

01:10:37Guest:And we just kind of went to his, I went to his house and he has a studio there and we just wrote songs together and it was really fun.

01:10:42Guest:And so he was a huge relief during that period of time.

01:10:45Marc:Because I don't, that's nice.

01:10:46Marc:I don't know this whole world of people with one name.

01:10:49Guest:Jared Kritstein is his name.

01:10:51Marc:Uh-huh.

01:10:51Marc:But he's credited as Jared K?

01:10:53Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:10:54Guest:Probably just to fit him in.

01:10:55Marc:And what about, oh, is that all?

01:10:57Marc:Yeah.

01:10:57Marc:And who's Thai?

01:10:59Marc:T-H-A-A-E.

01:11:01Marc:Who's that guy?

01:11:02Guest:Oh, Frederick, the savior of like that period of time.

01:11:06Guest:Really, he.

01:11:07Marc:How do you say his name?

01:11:08Guest:Frederick Toe.

01:11:10Marc:Toe.

01:11:10Marc:Okay.

01:11:11Guest:Okay.

01:11:11Guest:So he's a... I got introduced with one of the many thousand managers I've had.

01:11:17Guest:I got introduced to him.

01:11:18Guest:And we just... Like, we... I love working with him.

01:11:21Guest:He's a producer.

01:11:22Guest:Yeah, and he's just, like, of the same background as me with, like...

01:11:26Guest:I hate to say this, but like real music, you know what I mean?

01:11:30Guest:And we just have like really good studio chemistry and we'll like do a song in like four hours and have the best time.

01:11:35Guest:And he became, during that period of time, was a fucking like save place for me to go and just like write music and do what I loved and kind of helped me find that again, that I actually loved it, you know?

01:11:50Guest:Because it's a very self-destructive thing when the thing that you care about the most in the world and then do most of your life, adult life is the only thing I've ever done.

01:12:02Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:12:03Guest:And then it gets destroyed and you don't know if you're ever going to be able to do it again.

01:12:08Guest:And you also don't really know who you are and what you think and how to have the confidence.

01:12:13Guest:You don't even think you're good anymore.

01:12:15Marc:It's the worst.

01:12:15Guest:Oh my God.

01:12:17Guest:Not having purpose like that.

01:12:20Marc:was like the most loss i've ever felt in my life like yeah and i guess with it's probably easier for that to happen with music you know than it is for like what i do even though it's still self-generated you know you do you're sort of at you're kind of beholden to your past success and also you know in styles of the moment

01:12:41Guest:And now I feel like it's so hard for, you know, bands now.

01:12:46Guest:I'm so lucky that I have that Made of Bricks success because having like a platinum record and a Brit Award and like, you know, a number one record in my history has like always been there.

01:12:59Marc:Right.

01:13:00Guest:It's always there.

01:13:00Marc:It's like an accolade I always carry and that helps like... Give you some gravitas.

01:13:05Marc:Yes.

01:13:06Guest:And I worry for the bands that don't get that or have that.

01:13:09Guest:And I think...

01:13:09Marc:I don't know what they do.

01:13:11Marc:It's fucking hard, man.

01:13:12Marc:Believe me, I get a lot of records from people who are just, you know, they got a dream and they're putting it out there.

01:13:17Guest:Yeah, I mean.

01:13:17Marc:It's a matter of like, how do you get someone to pick it up?

01:13:20Marc:How do you get someone to come to Denver?

01:13:22Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:13:23Marc:It's like, how is someone gonna be like, oh, this is great?

01:13:25Guest:Yeah.

01:13:25Marc:Because it just, there is so much out there.

01:13:28Marc:But it looks like, but I'm glad that you did this.

01:13:30Guest:Thank you.

01:13:31Marc:And we're gonna start shooting, what, in February?

01:13:35Guest:Who knows, yeah, February?

01:13:36Marc:I heard it was February.

01:13:37Guest:I heard the rumor, yeah.

01:13:39Marc:Is that what you heard?

01:13:40Guest:Yeah, I think that that's what people said from the last, right?

01:13:44Marc:Yeah, I think so.

01:13:45Marc:I mean, I got cleared to do something in January.

01:13:48Guest:Oh, great.

01:13:50Guest:Oh, that's good.

01:13:50Marc:Yeah, so it must be after that.

01:13:51Guest:So we might.

01:13:53Marc:Unless they haven't told me yet.

01:13:55Marc:My manager's going to tell me something and then say, I got to go.

01:13:58Marc:You're not in the season.

01:14:00Marc:You're in one episode.

01:14:01Marc:Text you and then get on a plane.

01:14:03Marc:Have a fatal heart attack in episode one.

01:14:05Marc:I got to go.

01:14:06Guest:Do you think any of us are going to die?

01:14:08Marc:I hope not.

01:14:09Guest:Oh, God.

01:14:09Marc:That'd be terrible.

01:14:11Guest:Not in real life, but, you know.

01:14:13Marc:We're all going to die.

01:14:14Marc:In real life, we know we're going to die.

01:14:15Marc:Yeah, but I don't think we need to do that on the show.

01:14:18Marc:No.

01:14:19Marc:Do we?

01:14:19Marc:It's a bus accident where we all go.

01:14:22Guest:It would be cool if we all just, like, fly off and explode.

01:14:24Marc:Yeah, great.

01:14:25Marc:Like the Challengers.

01:14:26Marc:Yeah.

01:14:26Marc:Like the Challenger explosion.

01:14:28Marc:That's terrible.

01:14:28Marc:That was so brutal.

01:14:29Marc:Yeah.

01:14:30Marc:All right, so now you've got a new boyfriend.

01:14:32Marc:Is he unlike the others?

01:14:34Guest:Yes.

01:14:35Guest:He's a nice person.

01:14:36Marc:Okay, good.

01:14:36Marc:Very good person.

01:14:37Marc:Well, congratulations.

01:14:37Marc:Thank you.

01:14:38Marc:That's growth.

01:14:39Guest:I did grow.

01:14:40Marc:You seem to.

01:14:41Marc:I'm very happy.

01:14:41Marc:Self-producing, growth.

01:14:43Guest:Yeah.

01:14:43Marc:Grounded.

01:14:44Guest:Yeah.

01:14:45Marc:Know who you are again.

01:14:46Guest:Yeah.

01:14:46Marc:Congratulations.

01:14:47Guest:Thank you.

01:14:48Marc:And if people want to see the documentary of you unraveling, what's that called again?

01:14:52Yeah.

01:14:52Guest:Underestimate the girl.

01:14:54Marc:Yeah, go watch that because she's a lot better now.

01:14:57Marc:How does that end, that documentary?

01:15:00Guest:Well, it goes right up until Glow.

01:15:02Marc:Oh, okay.

01:15:03Guest:I was shooting until Glow, yeah.

01:15:06Marc:So if you want more detailed visuals of what we've discussed today, you can go watch that, and the new record is out on all the platforms.

01:15:15Guest:It's out there.

01:15:16Marc:On all the places you get records.

01:15:18Guest:Everywhere you can find music, it'll be there waiting for you.

01:15:20Marc:Yesterday was forever.

01:15:22Marc:Go back and listen to the evolution.

01:15:25Guest:Yeah, yeah, and wait for what's to come.

01:15:28Marc:Nice ending.

01:15:30Marc:Nice talking to you, Kate.

01:15:31Guest:Thank you.

01:15:37Marc:See?

01:15:38Marc:Quite the rollercoaster ride for Kate there.

01:15:41Marc:But I'm glad she landed on her feet.

01:15:42Marc:It's great working with her.

01:15:43Marc:Her latest album, Yesterday Was Forever, is available wherever you get music.

01:15:47Marc:You can also watch her in all three seasons of Glow, streaming now on Netflix.

01:15:51Marc:And now I will play guitar for you and take a nap.

01:15:57.

01:16:26.

01:16:34Thank you.

01:17:08Marc:Boomer lives.

01:17:29Marc:Okay, Boomer.