Episode 1063 - Woody Harrelson
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf how are you is everything okay is is it okay out there is it how's the water how's is the water nice what's happening i got woody harrelson on the show today
Marc:Yeah, he came over and we hung out.
Marc:He asked for some, his people had us go out and get some vegan snacks, but he didn't eat them.
Marc:So you know what happened is my buddy Frank, who works for me, he picked up some chocolate covered coconut cookie snacks and I threw them in the freezer.
Marc:And you know where they ended up?
Marc:In my fucking mouth.
Marc:I can't have that shit in the house.
Marc:I'm not going to complain.
Marc:You know, it's healthy.
Marc:But Jesus Christ, Woody, why didn't you eat it?
Marc:So yeah, Woody's on the show today.
Marc:He's got that Zombieland Double Tap is opening in theaters tomorrow, Friday, October 18th.
Marc:By the way, no nicotine for how long has it been?
Marc:Is anyone keeping track?
Marc:Could somebody please tell me how long I've been off nicotine?
Marc:It feels like a while.
Marc:It was several pounds ago.
Marc:I feel like it was like, when did I get off it?
Marc:August 26th.
Marc:How long is that?
Marc:I'm looking at my phone, sorry.
Marc:Seven and a half weeks off nicotine.
Marc:and i feel okay goddamn hungry all the time but you know we've covered that i'm all right nicotine free almost two months that's fucking nuts can i stay with it by the way yeah i'll be in nashville today and tomorrow uh tomorrow's a show i'll be out in the streets
Marc:doing something, if I'm not too tired, depending on how the travel day goes.
Marc:Looking forward to hanging out in Nashville for a day.
Marc:The show, I hope it's going to be great.
Marc:And Atlanta, too.
Marc:I've got to spend a day in Atlanta, too, which I don't mind.
Marc:I've got a buddy there.
Marc:Looking forward to it.
Marc:I am looking forward to it.
Marc:I'm looking forward to dumping this material, too.
Marc:I got the special taping on the 30th.
Marc:I got the Masonic in San Francisco on the 26th, and I'm going to have those posters.
Marc:If you're from San Francisco, bring cash.
Marc:I don't know if my square thing works.
Marc:Man, that's another thing I got to look into.
Marc:I haven't sold posters in a long time, but I guess I'm going to sit there, do a meet and greet, and sell.
Marc:I got 100 or so, about 100 of these hand-printed posters.
Marc:And I'm going to move them if you like them.
Marc:They're kind of twisted, kind of cool.
Marc:But so, yeah, so I'll see you guys at one of those dates.
Marc:I just got done with the litter box project once a week now.
Marc:Here at the house, I have a litter box project.
Marc:I have three large litter boxes, two old cats with kidneys weakening.
Marc:So the turnover is pretty fast.
Marc:But I've been using the pine, just those pine pellets,
Marc:The pine litter straight up compressed pine pellets because I've decided that's healthier.
Marc:I've decided that if you change your litter every week and you use the pine with no scent, that it's natural.
Marc:It's better for them on all levels, better for the fucking floor.
Marc:But that means every week I got to dump three massive fucking litter boxes and do a litter box project.
Marc:But that wasn't the only cat related issue today.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I had monkey on that fucking medicine for the hyperthyroid.
Marc:And I didn't realize because I'm an idiot and I don't listen and I don't quite take in stuff that that's sort of a lifetime thing if it works.
Marc:And you kind of fuck with the dosage to keep them level because basically the hyperthyroid trip is that there's some sort of benign tumor in there that's causing more thyroid to be created.
Marc:And you take the pills and it takes down the thyroid production.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I don't know, you guys.
Marc:I drove Monkey over there, fucking 15 years old, 15 and a half years old.
Marc:I'm going to get him the radioactive iodine.
Marc:I'm going to go fucking do it when I get back from the tour.
Marc:I'm going to go down to the west side.
Marc:One guy does it.
Marc:He's legit.
Marc:He's on the level.
Marc:I'm going to radiate my fucking cat and get rid of that goddamn thing for good.
Marc:I don't know how much time he's got left, but fuck it.
Marc:It's not a money thing, so what am I waiting for?
Marc:If the prognosis is good, I'll go get them zapped or radiated or whatever they do and put an end to this and no pills, and maybe I'll get a couple more good years out of them and I'll put on some fucking weight.
Marc:So that took up the morning.
Marc:It's very traumatic.
Marc:And then sitting over there with all the other sick animals, man, and I'm talking about the people.
Marc:Pow!
Pow!
Marc:Wow, man.
Marc:Everything's becoming sort of hazy, kind of a blur.
Marc:I don't even know what I've been doing for the last few days.
Marc:I don't know if my... I get home and I regroup.
Marc:Had to deal with the cat...
Marc:I've been watching some TV.
Marc:I've been watching Succession.
Marc:That finale of Succession was very satisfying.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:That show, I got to talk to some of those people.
Marc:They're really fucking blowing my mind.
Marc:And this isn't, it's not even a paid ad.
Marc:This isn't an ad.
Marc:This is just me engaging.
Marc:I watched the fucking finale of Succession twice.
Marc:It's just there's something about the language and the emotional kind of horror show that it is.
Marc:It's a very specific tone of language that they're using.
Marc:I'm not sure what it is.
Marc:I get it's some sort of take on Shakespeare or something.
Marc:I don't know what's going on, but I do enjoy it.
Marc:And the Culkin kids doing good.
Marc:And the guy who plays Kendall, everyone's so fucking good in that show.
Marc:I like watching satisfying shows.
Marc:I've been watching more TV lately.
Marc:I've been letting myself watch TV.
Marc:I've been playing some guitar.
Marc:I've been eating, cooking, just trying to take care of myself.
Marc:I thought I was coming down with something.
Marc:I don't know if I'm coming down with something.
Marc:Whatever it is, I hope it don't come down on me until after.
Marc:After the special taping.
Marc:Moving towards the special taping.
Marc:Everybody all right?
Marc:Oh, so when I talk to Woody...
Marc:I guess I should bring this up because, like, you know, I know it's out there and people know about his dad, who was a convicted murderer.
Marc:And, you know, Woody had somewhat of a relationship with him.
Marc:But I didn't know if I was going to get into it and, you know, what he would say about it or how comfortable he was about it.
Marc:But I did sort of ask him about it without telling you what was up.
Marc:His dad was in prison for murder, and I didn't get much backstory, but I did bring it up, and I just wanted to let you know that's the backstory on it because I guess I was nervous about bringing it up, and I didn't sort of set it up properly, and we didn't stay on it very long.
Marc:It caused sort of a tense moment, but that was what was going on with that.
Marc:But aside from that, I think we had a nice chat, and Zombieland Double Tap, it opens tomorrow, Friday, October 18th.
Marc:This is me talking to Woody.
Marc:You live in Hawaii?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That must be fucking great.
Guest:Oh, it's so fucking great.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:The people are extraordinary.
Guest:And of course, it's, well, it's the most beautiful place I've ever lived.
Guest:Which island is it?
Marc:Maui.
Marc:And you've been there a while?
Marc:Yeah, since 98.
Marc:Because I go down there to, I've only been to Kauai.
Marc:And I've been there like three or four times with three different women at different points in my life.
Yeah.
Marc:You can mark them all by this.
Marc:I can't buy that.
Marc:Well, that was when it was good, and then it got bad.
Marc:I remember that trip was right before it got bad.
Marc:But it's so pretty there, but there doesn't seem to be a lot that, like, you can't really live there.
Guest:But while you were there, were you having a loving, romantic time, or did things start to just...
Marc:Well, no, the trips are okay.
Marc:The last trip I went on was literally like the month that we planned in January, and it was the month that Trump took office, so I was panicking for 11 days in Kauai.
Marc:It was up against the beautiful backdrop of Kauai.
Marc:I was like, what is this fascist theater?
Marc:What's with the signing stuff?
Marc:What's Bannon going to do?
Marc:Are Jews safe?
Marc:It always comes down to that question.
Marc:So that ruined it that time.
Guest:Yeah, I could see how that would put a damper.
Marc:And what do you do?
Marc:Okay, so you shot this.
Marc:I don't even know when you shot Zombieland Double Tap, but you seem to always be working.
Marc:So would he take like three months and just hang out?
Guest:yeah well in hawaii uh how does it work oh you mean the way we the way we did that the way you live your life though like you know it just it seems like you're away do you have a place here too uh yeah i have a place here but i i'm not here very much i'm mostly in uh you know well i'm mostly working or back home right you know i passed through here on the way but uh
Guest:Yeah, you know, like that one I went, I think it was a couple, two and a half months in Atlanta.
Marc:That's not bad.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, a lot of stuff filming in Atlanta.
Marc:Yeah, and then just go do it, knock it out, go back home, hang out.
Guest:Just knock it right out, nothing to it.
Marc:do the zombie jokes, and go home.
Guest:Wear the hat, I'm done.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:No, but this one, pretty special just because, you know, this movie, probably more than any movie I've done, has, I mean, a very vibrant, shall we say, passionate fan base.
Guest:Like, they really have a thing about this film, the first one, and...
Guest:So, because the first one was a success, they wanted to do another one.
Guest:And for years, they kept trying with different scripts, different iterations of it.
Guest:And it just never was never right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so finally, they were getting mad at me because I was the one just saying, yeah, this is a page one rewrite.
Guest:So they said- How do you determine that?
Guest:How do you determine?
Guest:You just read it and you can tell.
Guest:But I was just like, you got to get the original guys back, Rhett and Paul, who had gone off and written Deadpool 1 and 2.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Now.
Marc:To get the humor element balanced.
Guest:Well, they just understood these characters.
Guest:So those were the guys who really cracked it and made it.
Guest:And there was still plenty of work after their first script, and they did a ton of work on it.
Guest:And it's just also a very cool collaborative thing when you get on set with Ruben, who's our director, our fearless leader.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:It's a great experience.
Guest:So it's fun.
Guest:Super fun people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we're making each other laugh.
Guest:We're trying shit all the time.
Guest:Sometimes you can't even get through a take because you're laughing so hard at the other.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it's funny, though, like you have this now.
Marc:So people know you.
Marc:There's a whole generation of people that know you from these movies.
Marc:You're Woody from those movies to them.
Marc:That's the depth of their experience with you probably in one way or another.
Guest:Well, maybe.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's just weird because there was probably a good decade or two where you were Woody from Cheers.
Marc:There was a whole generation of people.
Marc:That's how they identified you.
Guest:I had done other things too, Mark.
Guest:No, I know that.
Guest:Okay.
Okay.
Guest:But you're right.
Guest:I mean, Cheers, of course, I'm making a point.
Marc:I'm making the point is you transcended fairly quickly the sort of trap of only being TV famous.
Guest:Well, it might have seemed quickly to you, Mark, but I cannot tell you it was six years I couldn't get arrested on in any other capacity other than Cheers.
Guest:So I was worried that I was.
Guest:You know, good part, but I thought maybe I'll always just be Woody from Cheers.
Guest:It happens.
Guest:Which, not so bad, but yeah, I was thinking I could do more.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I thought maybe more.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:Well, I mean, the problem is like you're Woody from Cheers years after Cheers is over.
Marc:That's the big fear.
Marc:It's like, you know, you got the good gig for six years, but the big fear is like 10 years after, like, there he is.
Marc:What have you been doing?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I still get that sometimes.
Guest:Someone will be like, man, why haven't you done anything lately?
Guest:I said, well, I've done a lot, so I'm doing my part.
Guest:You got to do your part and watch it.
Guest:Step up.
Guest:No, I will say that as Cheers was coming to an end, I was on an eight season, so that was the 11th season.
Guest:But right in that window, the 10th or 11th season, one of the execs from Paramount took me to lunch and said, we've got an idea.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You'll take over the bar because Teddy's leaving.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you'll take over.
Guest:And I said...
Guest:this this is at the very beginning of the meal right i said there's no show without ted dancing i promise you and uh and then we had to sit through the rest of the meal where i've already kind of said no to this offer uh but it wasn't like a fraser thing you know that's a different thing right right that's a whole different world but to be in that bar and be
Guest:Without Ted?
Guest:No.
Guest:Woody's?
Guest:Right.
Marc:That wouldn't have been it.
Marc:They were asking you to sort of like, this might kill the show.
Guest:We just want you to be there when it dies.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And so you just said no.
Marc:Yeah, absolutely not.
Guest:Well, that was the best thing you ever did, right?
Marc:Who knows?
Marc:Awkward lunch after that.
Guest:That could have been a difference.
Guest:Yeah, it was awkward.
Guest:Are you getting a dessert?
Guest:No.
Guest:No?
Marc:Do you still want to eat?
Marc:But where'd you...
Marc:I grew up in New Mexico.
Marc:You're a Southwest guy, or you're a Texas guy, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The whole childhood, Texas.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, well, until I was 12, then we moved to Ohio.
Guest:But I was, in fact, I'm thinking lately about moving back to Texas.
Guest:yeah yeah nostalgia or to help uh you know i i don't know i love it there i love great people you know there's some people there you don't want to talk politics with no but uh generally incredible i mean you've
Guest:Yeah, I think that's true.
Marc:I'm sure you've spent time there.
Marc:Wonderful.
Marc:I always find that.
Marc:You know, I was surprised.
Marc:I was just there.
Marc:I did Houston, Dallas, Austin did shows.
Marc:And yeah, I mean, you know, there's political problems everywhere and there's people with certain points of view.
Marc:But, you know, Texans are their own thing.
Marc:And, you know, they are good people.
Marc:And the state, I really think they live in their own country.
Marc:And I think that gives them a sort of disposition.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that is true.
Guest:I think a lot of Texans look at it as a separate country, too.
Marc:Yeah, on both sides.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it's big, you know what I mean?
Marc:So it's like, how often can you get out?
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Where do you live there?
Marc:Where did you live, though, when you grew up?
Guest:Well, I grew up in Houston.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I was born in Midland, but grew up in Houston.
Marc:Yeah, so you really, like, do you come from cowboys?
Yeah.
Guest:No, we were more in a suburb of, yeah, so still city, but- But maybe wore boots.
Marc:No boots.
Marc:No boots.
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah, they call them kickers, I guess.
Marc:Is that what they- But what do you think's driving you back there?
Marc:Just because you, I mean, you live in Hawaii, man.
Marc:I mean, that's sort of a weird kind of like, you know, but this nice, but Texas-
Guest:I love Hawaii, too.
Guest:I love Austin.
Guest:I just love that city.
Guest:I'll still come hang out in Hawaii, too.
Guest:You've got a good life, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Unbelievable.
Guest:I still am shocked constantly.
Guest:Do you have brothers and sisters?
Guest:I have two brothers.
Guest:Older?
Guest:Older and younger.
Guest:I'm in the middle.
Guest:They still around?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Everybody get along?
Guest:Oh, we get along great.
Guest:In fact, we all went... My younger brother is 56, named Brett.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Brett decided to get back into go-karting after... At 56.
Guest:At 56, yeah.
Guest:And, you know, that is one rigorous sport.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're talking about the little motorized cars, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, I mean, they can go up to 150 miles an hour.
Guest:There's no roll cage, nothing.
Guest:If you wipe out, it's a disaster.
Guest:You know, they're real low to the ground.
Guest:You've seen them.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And so he's gotten back in.
Guest:Now he's the national champion, 46 and over, 45 and over.
Guest:He's a real, he's just an athlete, overall athlete.
Guest:Just an amazing guy.
Guest:My older brother lives in Texas.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah, he wants to move to Austin, too.
Guest:Right now he's living up there in the Midland-Odessa area.
Marc:I don't know that area at all.
Marc:Yeah, me neither.
Guest:I haven't seen it since I was three.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:That's the weird thing about Texas.
Marc:If you drive through it, you're sort of like, I guess this used to be a town.
Marc:You just have these moments where there's just miles of like, what the fuck are these people doing out here?
Guest:Yeah, it is huge.
Guest:It's kind of rough.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Endless.
Marc:So, Ohio.
Marc:So, when did you start getting interested in doing acting?
Marc:Was that a college thing?
Guest:No, I was in high school, and I was in the library, and it was right around...
Guest:Christmas break.
Guest:So there was kind of a festive vibe anyway.
Guest:But, you know, it was packed.
Guest:And some of my buddies from the football team said, Woody, do your Elvis.
Guest:And I said, I can't do my Elvis in here.
Guest:There's too many people.
Guest:Oh, come on, just do it.
Guest:You can do it quiet.
Guest:I said, I can't do it quiet.
Guest:Well, anyway, they're like, just do it, you know.
Guest:And I'm like, well, you know.
Guest:Well, bless my soul, what's wrong with me?
Guest:I'm itching like a man on a fuzzy tree.
Guest:My friends say I'm acting wild as a bug.
Guest:I'm in love.
Guest:I'm out shook up.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Start singing it kind of light.
Guest:You still got it.
Guest:Kind of light.
Guest:Oh, thank you.
Guest:Light it first, you know, and then singing louder.
Guest:And then people start clapping and gathering around in a circle around me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was incredible.
Guest:Like suddenly the whole library, by the time I got through with the song, was gathered around all clapping along.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'd jump up on the table and started dancing, which I don't dance to this day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know why, but I did it.
Guest:And then I beat so it scares me to death.
Guest:You know, finish the thing.
Guest:And they all clap.
Guest:And this gal comes up, Robin Rogers.
Guest:And she was this lovely gal in the school who dated the...
Guest:best athlete and had never talked to me before but anyway she said Woody uh you know I'm vice president of the drama club and I think you ought to come try out for theater and I said well I absolutely will do that Robin absolutely
Guest:And I mean, really, it was in my pursuit of Robin that I became an actor.
Guest:And then later, she and I did date up until sometime during my freshman year in college.
Guest:She came and visited me, and I still had like two papers to write, and she got really mad at me.
Marc:That was it?
Guest:I haven't seen her since then.
Marc:Chose schoolwork over Robin.
Guest:Maybe it was having procrastinated that school work.
Marc:Yeah, that'll do it.
Marc:So that was it.
Marc:That was the beginning of it.
Marc:But you didn't do it in college or you did?
Guest:I did.
Guest:You did act?
Guest:Then I went to Hanover College in Hanover, Indiana.
Guest:The guy who ran the theater there named Doc Evans was an incredible...
Guest:director of theater and really knowledgeable about theater and I learned a lot from him and I did, during college I did almost maybe 26 plays during college.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, including, like some semesters I'd do like two one acts.
Marc:Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So you were in it.
Guest:More than, yeah.
Marc:What kind of college was that?
Marc:What's Hanover?
Marc:Is that a good, is that a smaller liberal arts school?
Guest:Well at the time, liberal arts, but at the time it was Presbyterian.
Guest:I was there on a Presbyterian scholarship
Guest:how do they judge religious scholarships how much do you believe uh well yeah right no at the time i was quite religious and i uh i you know was involved in the church and in ohio bible bible studies at my house and i mean i was uh i was one of the you know you ran the bible studies
Guest:Well, no, the assistant minister would run them, but we'd do it at my house.
Guest:So you were really in it, huh?
Marc:Because I think about that stuff a lot now as I get older.
Marc:Not that I wasn't brought up with any God, and the wheels would really have to come off for me to find one at this point.
Guest:It would have to be a dying situation.
Guest:Well, I wouldn't call myself Christian anymore.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I guess philosophically closer to Buddhism, but I kind of like the Hindu gods.
Guest:You know what I am.
Guest:I'm a mixture of... Sure.
Guest:I'm a Hindu-Farian.
Guest:Yeah, I get it.
Marc:I get a lot more holidays.
Marc:But do you think...
Marc:Every day is a holiday in Hawaii.
Marc:But do you find that, like, was there a point where, you know, you believed hard and then it started to drift?
Marc:I mean, like, but you still feel like you have that need?
Marc:Like, I'm not sure I have that need.
Marc:Some people are like, you know, I really want to find God.
Marc:I'm like, yeah, it seems like a lot of work.
Guest:I don't... You know what?
Guest:I don't look at it that way, but I do.
Guest:I feel like...
Guest:I know that meditation is probably the most important thing you can do to achieve oneness with God.
Guest:And I'm not saying that I'm meditating regularly.
Guest:I haven't achieved any kind of oneness.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You've heard it's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, yeah.
Guest:In fact, I stopped believing in God.
Guest:I went from agnostic to just I don't know what I was.
Marc:I just couldn't.
Marc:When did that happen?
Guest:Well, the thing that led to it was I took a lot of theology classes in college.
Guest:At Hanover?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, because I was actually, you know, there were people trying to get me to become a minister.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:And I was considering it.
Marc:Who were those people?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, someone from my church.
Marc:Oh, they knew you had charisma.
Marc:The minister.
Marc:They knew you could hold the audience.
Marc:They're like, we need this guy.
Guest:I did a sermon when I was 17, and then I did another one when I was at Hanover College.
Guest:And in fact, this is kind of bizarre, but Mike Pence was two years older at the same school at Hanover, and he was the guy who kind of...
Marc:you know, led me through it.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:He mentored you through your sermon?
Marc:Mentored me through it, yes.
Marc:Mike Pence did.
Marc:Mike Pence.
Marc:The frightening vice president.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Was he frightening then?
Guest:No, not at all.
Guest:Just a guy?
Guest:We weren't buddies or anything, but, you know, he was very religious.
Marc:Oh, he was?
Guest:And he was the guy who kind of headed that, it was kind of, I don't know, like for students wanting to do religious things.
Marc:Right, the really Christian club.
Marc:Very Christian folks there.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:But then, you know, the more I studied theology, the more I realized how man-made the Bible was, you know.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And it became very obvious.
Guest:And especially if you compare like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, you find that...
Guest:Like the last one that was written was John, which was maybe 80 years after the death of Christ.
Guest:I think Luke maybe was like 20 years.
Guest:I don't remember.
Guest:This has been a long time since I studied this stuff.
Guest:But you find out that probably Luke is the one with the most relevance toward the other validity if you compare it to the other chapters.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then John is a little more, I am the way, the truth, and the light.
Guest:Now, I stopped believing for a long time ago that Jesus was the son of God.
Guest:I thought he was just an extremely evolved person.
Guest:I believe he, I think he lived, and I think he had tremendous influence, obviously.
Guest:I didn't think him saying I'm the son of the God, I think he meant we're all children of God.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:And he said, you know, like the miracles I do, you can do also.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I always felt like there was something not quite right about declaring him God.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And he had a problem with these guys who were like, hey, I wonder if I can still make a little something off this Jesus story.
Marc:I know he's been dead a while.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I knew a guy that knew him, right?
Marc:So that's what sort of tipped you to the fact that this was a construction of humans is that those books were written so long after he died, there had to be a little bit of hucksterism involved.
Guest:Well, also, there was a lot of influence by the Nicene Council of the early church.
Marc:Yeah, right, sure.
Guest:They'd say, for example, the way it was originally written, there was one...
Guest:angel outside the tomb when jesus rose yeah but in jewish law at the time it had you had to have two witnesses for a thing to be a valid legal you know occurrence so they change it to two you know these are even if they're angels yeah even if they're angels but i'm saying the the when they're discussing this stuff in the nice thing they're they're
Guest:They're slightly manipulating things to make it a little more kosher.
Marc:Of course.
Guest:When I started to understand, oh, it's not exactly every literal word that came from the mouth of God.
Marc:When you realized it wasn't journalism, that Bible wasn't.
Guest:It wasn't God journalism.
Marc:It was more, you know, anyway.
Marc:People constructing this story.
Marc:All right, but you never lost the desire to have faith in something.
Marc:Yeah, that's true.
Marc:You just moved it around.
Guest:Well, I did because at the time that all this transpired toward the end of my college career and as I moved to New York City, it was more convenient for my religion to be hedonism.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Funny how things work out.
Marc:You just eased into another sort of more exciting belief system.
Marc:Tried to make up for lost time.
Marc:Could you imagine that, though, Woody, if you'd just been closer to Pence and gone that way, where you'd be now?
Guest:Oh, like gone into politics or something?
Guest:Politics or just more Jesus.
Guest:Oh, yeah, gone to become a minister.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'd probably be a minister of a wonderful flock in- Sure, in Hawaii.
Marc:Wherever.
Marc:And you would have somehow worked weed into it somehow.
Marc:Well, that's the Rastafari.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You'd be a weird hybrid of Presbyterian Rastafari.
Marc:Yeah, it'd be good.
Marc:And vegan.
Marc:So you're just going to reinvent a hippie commune and be a cult leader.
Guest:It's not a bad idea.
Marc:You can do it.
Marc:Just have my own church.
Marc:Why don't you just pull in the Zombieland fans?
Guest:If you could mix the zombies and the herb.
Guest:I mean, I'll tell you, it all makes sense.
Marc:So you go to New York from Indiana?
Marc:To pursue acting?
Guest:Well, we went down to Houston to work construction for... Me and my buddy Clint.
Guest:So the reason I ended up going to New York... You were in Houston.
Guest:Because my best buddy at college, Clint Allen, he auditioned for Juilliard.
Guest:And he told me before he auditioned, if I get it, will you...
Guest:Well, you come to New York, be my roommate.
Guest:And then we had another roommate, Rob, and so the three of us ended up living on 51st Street there between 8th and 9th Street.
Guest:He got into Juilliard, that guy.
Guest:He got into Juilliard.
Guest:Did he make it through?
Guest:Because I had a slow plan.
Guest:No, he went two years and then he did a Broadway play for like a year and a half, so he kind of exited.
Guest:Is he still in the game?
Guest:No, now he lives in Minnesota, and he got completely out of the game to go and raise his kids because his wife at the time was from Minnesota.
Guest:And I got to say, I look at his life kind of admiringly.
Marc:Oh, dude.
Guest:When you see people that get out of the... It's pretty great, his life.
Marc:When you see people get out of this fucking delusionary business with some grace, it's like... There was a time where I think when you're younger, you're like, couldn't hack it, but now you're like...
Marc:It must be great that you got out and live a normal life.
Marc:Look at you.
Marc:I know.
Guest:And, you know, but I mean, I have I love my life.
Marc:No, of course.
Guest:I know what you're saying.
Guest:But I also look at his and I say, well, geez, it's at least equally great.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:You know, like I might get to meet lots of people that people would want to meet.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:But in terms of just a day to day, great life with friends.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's pretty groovy.
Marc:Yeah, because a lot of times we get to meet all these people, but it doesn't mean we're necessarily hanging out all the time.
Guest:Right.
Marc:We meet cool people, but you're like, okay, that was good.
Marc:I met that guy, and now I'm going to go back home.
Guest:I mean, there's a lot of people going to be very envious I got to meet you.
Marc:Oh, I think that goes both ways.
Marc:That's very nice of you to say.
Guest:It's true, man.
Guest:You're great, dude.
Guest:I love what you do, and I love your passion and your conviction and the things you care about and the way you just speak your mind.
Marc:It's beautiful, dude.
Marc:Thank you, man.
Marc:You know, it's a weird thing to feel compelled to do that.
Marc:There was a moment, especially now, where you're sort of like, we kind of have to.
Marc:We don't know what's going to happen.
Marc:But if we don't do it, you want to be one of those people?
Marc:At least, like, you spoke up for fuck's sake.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, you definitely do.
Marc:You always have.
Guest:It's like that thing where Papillon says, 30 years from now, when your grandson's on your knee and he asks you, what did you do in the Great World War II, you won't have to say, well, I shoveled shit in Louisiana.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that was him.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And it's him giving a speech to these.
Guest:George C. Scott.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:George C. Scott.
Guest:And and.
Guest:But the point is, we don't want to have to say, you know, when there's not a tree left and there's no such thing as snow and just fucking blazing hot at all times.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we're just dying off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it.
Marc:We don't want to say we didn't do anything.
Marc:At the very least, you want to be like, we tried.
Marc:We did what we could.
Guest:Well, it's like this girl here, Greta.
Guest:I honestly, I'm pointing to my shirt.
Guest:I have her picture on my shirt.
Guest:I feel like Greta Thunberg is probably...
Guest:I used to say to myself, who's gonna save us?
Guest:Who's gonna come and be the modern Martin Luther King and gonna really just change things?
Guest:And turns out to be a 16-year-old girl with Asperger's from Sweden.
Guest:This girl is really making a difference.
Guest:So, you know, I like to think we aren't all just lemmings, you know, heading toward the sea to jump off the cliff.
Guest:But it feels that way.
Guest:But I think maybe we'll make a, hopefully, a gradual U-turn.
Marc:Yeah, I hope so.
Marc:I do hope so.
Marc:You know, it's weird that what I struggle with, even in my stage show right now, is that...
Marc:is that in order to make the u-turn or at least in order to to sort of have a sensibility a logical response to it is we have to accept where we're at now in a way like and see it at the very least you know instead of like you know just sort of like just entertaining ourselves or being distracted and being like you know trying to put it it's real what is happening is real
Marc:So that's the hardest thing I think for most people is to sort of prioritize as opposed to just sort of like, I don't know, is that important?
Marc:I can't think about that right now.
Marc:I have to go to yoga.
Marc:You know, like the world is ending.
Marc:Yeah, but yoga is good.
Marc:Yeah, okay.
Marc:They can coexist, but we have to do something about the other thing.
Guest:Well, but I totally get that as well because how many times I've just been like so, my mind is so overstimulated and so freaked out by everything that's going on.
Guest:I'm like, I just got to smoke a fatty and just forget about this.
Marc:Yeah, no, I get that.
Guest:So I get that attitude, but I look at this girl, Greta, spent like a year, I heard, just so overwhelmed.
Guest:Once she knew the information, it's like we all got to get kind of sick with the information before we can... Or something really catastrophic has to happen.
Marc:That's always my fear.
Marc:It's already happening, but it's too slow.
Guest:I watched this documentary last night, which I actually narrated,
Guest:but it's uh which one it's extraordinary it's called kiss the ground yeah and josh and rebecca tickle uh directed it but it is uh it talks about the relationship of the soil to uh global warming because this the soil the fact that there's so much desertification yeah in our world like a third of the world
Guest:is we've turned it to desert just these incredible uh practices of the way we kill the soil and all of the pesticides and everything are just so destructive to where we denature the soil yeah and we kill all the microbes and things like that it did this this documentary is fucking great yeah i i didn't know you know i just did the yeah but i you know i went and saw it last night that's how you learned it's
Marc:It's extraordinary.
Marc:I learned a lot.
Marc:By narrating that documentary, you learned.
Guest:That was my education, but watching it was my education.
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:It's devastating, though, right?
Guest:It's devastating, but there is a way out.
Guest:But the farming practices have got to radically shift.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And if they don't shift, then we're going to make two-thirds of this earth into desert, and it's not that far away.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's the tagline that keeps people from watching things.
Guest:They don't want to get burned out.
Marc:It's so funny.
Marc:Whenever you hear that, like I watched a documentary last night, there's a 98% chance that the rest of that is going to be kind of a bummer.
Guest:I mean, honestly, even when I told you I'd watch a documentary, I saw your lids just get a little heavy.
Marc:Well, I watch documentaries, but some of them are just sort of like there's a certain ilk of documentary where it's like, I know I need to know that, but man, I'm a little sad already.
Guest:Luckily, this one doesn't really make you too sad.
Guest:Yeah, there's a dash of hope, and it's going to change.
Guest:It's got to change.
Marc:I'm with you.
Marc:I'm optimistic right now with you.
Marc:I'm optimistic.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:So let's go through some of this stuff because I want to know about like, so you're in New York.
Marc:You did theater in high school, but did you train more?
Guest:Yeah, so I did theater all through college, and I also took acting classes.
Guest:It was really doing those plays that I think really helped me to where I did get an opportunity in New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which, you know, so I was in New York 14 months before I got a job, which doesn't seem like long and isn't long in the scheme of things.
Guest:But I got to say, I was at my wits end.
Guest:I mean, I was pretty much done.
Guest:I couldn't keep a job.
Guest:I had like, I don't know.
Guest:17 jobs in a year.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Mostly around restaurants.
Guest:Runner, busboy, sometimes waiter.
Marc:You couldn't keep on because you were angry or because you just was like, fuck this?
Guest:No, I just wasn't good at this stuff.
Guest:It just wasn't my cup of tea.
Guest:They'd come over to me and they'd say, someone threw up over on table four, go clean that up.
Guest:I'd be like, you go clean that up.
Guest:I'm going to clean that up.
Guest:Yeah, and I'd get fired.
Marc:A limit to what you would do.
Guest:Yeah, there was a lot of, you know, eventually I decided, I had a fight, a bad fight.
Marc:Fish fight?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, you know, I had a lot of fights, especially in New York, because someone just looks at you weird.
Guest:I had that one time where I was just walking down the street.
Guest:One guy looks at me strange.
Guest:I look at him, you know, like, why is he looking at me like that?
Guest:The next thing you know, we're fighting.
Guest:And I mean, literally, not even, no words.
Guest:Just let's go.
Guest:But that was at a time when I was more truculent, I guess you'd say.
Guest:A lot of fist fights?
Guest:I've had, I don't know, 100 in my life.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you're just prone to it?
Guest:No, there was a time where I did used to enjoy it.
Guest:I used to enjoy fighting.
Marc:You got a problem?
Marc:Were you that guy?
Guest:When I was, I was the guy who would, when I'd see someone bullying someone else, I'd go after that guy.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:You know, like, I don't know why.
Guest:You're like a superhero.
Guest:I just had it in... Oh, yeah.
Guest:I think I had it in my mind that I was just some noble.
Guest:But, no, there was nothing noble about it, and it was terrible.
Marc:Did you ever get busted?
Guest:What do you mean?
Marc:Like, put in jail for fighting.
Guest:No, not really.
Marc:I'm just talking about one night.
Guest:There were times where there was a lot of discussion with cops, and there were times where my friends went to jail.
Guest:You managed to.
Guest:I somehow managed to.
Marc:It's the acting.
Marc:That's where the acting comes in handy.
Guest:When you're talking to cops.
Guest:That's when you realize.
Guest:So I had given up, and I had this bad fight.
Guest:And in the fight, I lost my check.
Guest:My check was $137.
Guest:That's how much I made in a week.
Guest:And at the time, I was a short order cook, this place called Pershing's in the Upper West Side on Columbus Avenue in the low 70s.
Guest:I liked that job.
Guest:Yeah, I'd just throw on a burger.
Guest:Yeah, eggs.
Guest:It's nothing hard.
Guest:But anyway, so I lost this job.
Guest:Then I lost that money.
Guest:And I was like, okay, that's it.
Guest:I'm going home.
Guest:I give up.
Guest:I can't do it anymore.
Guest:And I had managed to luckily get this great agent.
Guest:So she said, Marsha Bonin.
Guest:And she said-
Guest:Well, let me send you on one more audition.
Guest:And I said, OK, you know, it's for Neil Simon play Biloxi Blues, but it's for the understudy.
Guest:The parts are all cast.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, OK, but I'm leaving.
Guest:I got my I already had my date set to go back to Texas.
Guest:But no, Ohio, Ohio to Lebanon, Ohio.
Guest:Anyway, so I got the ticket and everything, and I went on the audition, and then I got a call to come back for a callback, which I went to the callback, and I was leaving two days hence.
Guest:And I go to the callback, so the lucky thing was the audition before Neil Simon just happened to be sitting back in the back of the theater, unbeknownst to me.
Guest:So that's how I got into the callback.
Guest:And then in the callback, boom, they hired me.
Guest:And I mean, I was elated.
Guest:I didn't need to be the guy on stage.
Guest:I was happy to be the understatement.
Guest:And so luckily been working since then.
Guest:That kept you in the game?
Guest:Actually, I stayed in New York and then we went to L.A.
Guest:at the Almondson.
Guest:So that won the Tony in 1985.
Guest:Yeah, and did you ever get to go on?
Guest:And so six months into it, I ended up getting a hiatus, basically, to go do this movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I didn't go on during that six months.
Guest:But I went to do this Goldie Hawn movie called, oh, shit.
Guest:Wildcats.
Guest:Wildcats.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Wildcats.
Guest:So I was going to do, I hope Goldie's not listening to this.
Guest:But then I, so I did Wildcats and I was going to go back and be on, you know, get to be on Broadway because they fired the two guys I was understudying for horsing around on stage with Matthew Broderick, who they didn't fire.
Guest:And so they were waiting for me to get back, and then it was like, I run into this friend of mine, he'd gone to my college, named Leo Jeter.
Guest:And Leo was a real good actor, and he said, hey, you know, they're auditioning for this show, Cheers.
Guest:They got a part, and the part's named Woody.
Guest:And he's from Indiana, which is where we'd gone to college.
Guest:And he says, you ought to go try out for it.
Guest:I said, ah.
Guest:I don't really want to do TV.
Guest:I'm purist theater.
Guest:Of course, then I watched it and I, whoa, this is a quality show.
Guest:I went in and anyway, I got real lucky on that too.
Marc:You loved working with all those people?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because, like, the thing about, like... Loved working with them.
Marc:Yeah, I've interviewed Ted.
Marc:He's a great guy.
Marc:Incredible guy.
Marc:Really sweet guy, fun guy, you know?
Marc:So let me ask you just a question just from past news, and then I want to talk about some of the movies.
Marc:Because, like, you sort of evolved into... Like, you're a great actor.
Marc:You know, I always liked seeing you.
Marc:And, you know, I love some of the fucking movies that you did.
Marc:And, like, there were certain...
Marc:I watched that one, what did I watch recently?
Marc:I watched the one with Kevin Costner, and you were great in that.
Marc:The True Detective was great.
Marc:I mean, you're always very good in that you know how to do it and go deep and show up, and it's amazing.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Marc:But in looking at some of the other stuff in your story, how did you...
Marc:Was it because you sort of evolved into this, you know, environmentalist and you do, you know, you're politically active and, you know, you're outspoken and you take action.
Marc:And, you know, how did this all evolve?
Marc:Like, how did like how did your father situation play into it?
Marc:Like in terms of how you integrated that into your own life?
Guest:does that make sense my father did the one thing he'd always uh try to stress with me is keep an open mind so i tried not to close my mind i still pretty much keep it open yeah so that was it i think that was helpful yeah but like you know his situation was that hard to grow up with obviously um yeah i mean you know you
Guest:It would be nice to be able to hug your father as opposed to talk to him on a telephone through glass.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So he was in jail your whole life pretty much?
Guest:From when I was seven on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was out for a little while my senior year in high school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I got to see him.
Guest:But he was only out like a year and then went back.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And it never came out again.
Marc:I guess I'm just sort of... Because you play a lot of morally dubious roles.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:And there are just times where I wonder how much a personal life... Assessing what you come from and how... Because your father was in jail for a real reason.
Marc:He wasn't set up or anything, right?
Guest:Well, I'd say there were some questionable things that the government did, but you don't want to go against the government.
Guest:You don't tend to win.
Guest:I've had several things where I'm going against the government, pay a lot of money to lawyers, and you just do not ever win.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Including with my dad.
Guest:Yeah, it was just, it's not something where you think, oh my God, woe is me.
Guest:What a terrible life.
Guest:It was just a fact of my life.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, absolutely.
Marc:I guess there's like I wonder, you know, when you're creating stuff like, you know, how much because like when I do it, my dad's got mental and emotional problems and there's some somehow they're in me a little bit, too.
Marc:And when I have to do that kind of work, it's sort of right there.
Marc:You know, I don't have to go too far to find it.
Marc:I'm not happy about that, but it's there, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So when you start doing real kind of like these roles, especially like Natural Born Killers and shit, I mean, what do you got to tap to get to that place?
Guest:Well, you know, that's interesting because this just happens to be the 25th anniversary of Natural Born Killers.
Guest:And tonight at the Egyptian Theater, I'm going to watch it, which you're welcome to come.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:If you want, I'll get you one or two tickets, whatever you want.
Guest:And it'll be, we'll do a Q&A afterward with Oliver and Juliet.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's wild.
Marc:John Murphy.
Guest:When was the last time you watched that thing?
Guest:I haven't seen it since, it came out, I think, 93.
Guest:I haven't seen it since then.
Guest:So that was when Cheers went off the air.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, no, I'm totally wrong.
Guest:That was when we shot it right after Cheers went off.
Guest:Then I started on NVK.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What was coming out at that time was Indecent Proposal.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we finished that.
Guest:So it probably came out the next year, like 94.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right, because 25 years.
Guest:Yeah, so I don't know.
Guest:I feel like...
Guest:I studied all of the freaking psychos.
Guest:I studied them all.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I really eerily, grotesquely got into their skin a little bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I didn't like it.
Guest:I didn't like the person I was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I did.
Guest:I remember being at a—this is back when you could smoke inside a restaurant and stuff.
Guest:And I remember grabbing someone's cigar and freaking—
Guest:putting it out in this restaurant in Paris.
Guest:I mean, my mindset was extremely volatile at that time.
Marc:And in terms of the kind of work you do to get into demanding roles, do you always do that much research?
Marc:I mean, do you really sort of try to, you know,
Guest:No, I mean, I would say I've been lazy sometimes.
Guest:I like to think I'll never be lazy again because I hate myself when I'm lazy and I don't do the kind of work.
Guest:You know how it is.
Guest:You want to deliver the best you can.
Marc:But we're also getting old and it's nice to.
Marc:Nice to just skate.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's funny.
Guest:No, I honestly, you just search for clues, I guess, right?
Marc:So yeah, so you found yourself kind of in the mire, this sort of like the mire of the insanity, the psychopathic insanity.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How long did it take you to shake it?
Guest:That took, man, that took a good...
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Close to a year, I would say.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Before I felt, you know, I don't have that shadow.
Marc:In you.
Guest:Well, I still got a little shadow, a little shadow.
Marc:It's always there.
Marc:It's always going to be there now.
Marc:You just kind of keep it quiet, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And working with Oliver, was that crazy?
Guest:It was wild, man.
Guest:Oliver, you know, I'm going to see him tonight, so I got to be careful what I say.
Guest:Who knows?
Guest:He's probably got spies listening.
Guest:But, you know, he was actually great to work with.
Guest:I really feel like, I mean, it's pretty obvious he's brilliant.
Guest:But, you know, he'd do things like...
Guest:So we have this one scene that's outside of this pharmacy that's this wildly lit pharmacy.
Guest:And there's this glass all the way in front of it.
Guest:And so, you know, my character's supposed to—they've captured Mallory, played by Juliette Lewis.
Guest:And so I'm kind of already pretty upset.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have to run along the other side of these windows and there's all these cop cars out front and they just are firing at me.
Guest:And so all of the windows, you know, get destroyed.
Guest:And, you know, so it was a major reset.
Guest:So, you know, Oliver comes up, this will take an hour and a half to reset.
Guest:Don't fuck it up.
Guest:Rolling.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like, that's my pep talk.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Well, he was wild to work with, but he, you know, quite brilliant.
Guest:And really also very, you know, he liked other people's ideas.
Marc:Collaborative.
Guest:Yeah, very collaborative.
Guest:And we tried all kinds of stuff.
Guest:And, you know, Downey just so great.
Guest:The shit he would come up with.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Juliet was doing things that I just thought, you know, when I watched it later, I was like, absolutely amazing.
Guest:Just such great acting.
Marc:And it always felt like it's right.
Marc:The whole movie just always felt like right on the edge of chaos.
Marc:Like it was just.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, I think wasn't even didn't even use Rodney Dangerfield.
Marc:Did he use Rodney Danger?
Marc:Wasn't there like a sitcom?
Marc:Wasn't that Rodney?
Marc:Was it Rodney?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He tried all kinds of wild stuff.
Marc:That was a trip, man.
Guest:Yeah, and so it's almost like it becomes a sitcom.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:And Rodney was Juliet's father.
Guest:Yeah, father.
Guest:it's like satire elements you know like yeah yeah satire and that that section's pretty wild pretty cool actually yeah it shows back to when mallory and mickey first met um but you know all of it was a satire and really it was kind of pointing a finger at the media saying the media creates these phenomenons you know yeah it that seems true more true now than ever
Guest:Yeah, I mean, this phenomenon of our president is a really wild one, man.
Guest:It is a wild phenomenon.
Guest:And, you know, people think of them like, you know, someone just, you know, sometimes I play chess online, but I don't know the person I'm playing.
Guest:They don't know me, but they see I'm from America.
Guest:You love chess?
Guest:They're asking me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do you play?
Guest:No.
No.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I'm not deep enough, man.
Guest:It's not about depth, it's just about entertaining oneself.
Guest:But you're good at it?
Guest:I'm pretty good, pretty good, yeah.
Marc:You have to learn, it's sort of you learn patterns, right?
Marc:There's patterns, there's a series of moves.
Guest:Yeah, you can learn openings and things like that.
Guest:But the point I was going to make is that the guy was like, oh, so American, what do you think of Trump?
Guest:He's an imbecile.
Guest:Well, some people have this collective opinion, I'd say, abroad, right?
Guest:Oh, sure.
Guest:About Trump as an imbecile, as well as a lot of people here.
Guest:I won't say my opinion.
Guest:But I'll say this.
Guest:I'll say this.
Guest:Trump.
Guest:And the reason you can't just discount him in spite of obviously his endurance is the fact that he's doing everything that the big money people want.
Guest:You want more fracking?
Guest:Here's more fracking.
Guest:You want to drill off the, you're there.
Guest:You want to drill in Alaska.
Guest:Okay, absolutely.
Guest:Pharmaceuticals, yeah, let me help you.
Guest:You know, he's helping all the big money people.
Guest:And those are the people running the show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we think it's like, you know, first of all, we're the only country, the only democratic country where the person who gets the most votes doesn't necessarily win.
Guest:Only one in the world.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And he's accommodating big money.
Marc:He's accommodating religious fanatics and he's just keeping everyone else fighting and insane.
Marc:Yeah, I think that's a fair estimate.
Marc:Divide and conquer, tribalize.
Marc:But the power of propaganda, who knew the mind was so soft?
Marc:I mean, there's a lot of people that are brain fucked and they're not coming back.
Marc:It's fucking over, dude.
Guest:It does seem that the mind, particularly here in America, is very malleable.
Marc:Malleable is the right word.
Guest:But anyway, so I worry that even if he, again, doesn't get the popular vote, the way all this redistricting and, you know, let's put like, you know, a million black votes in this district, so that only counts this much.
Marc:Move it around.
Guest:You know, whatever it is to make sure that they don't.
Marc:Well, not unlike the environment, there's a lot of work that needs to be chipped away at after, you know, Republicans have been diligently
Marc:You know, reworking districts and doing everything they can to undermine the system for 30 years.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:While we were sort of like, you know, a lot of us were kind of doing yoga and enjoying eight years of Obama.
Guest:You really have a thing against people who do yoga.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:These people are just horrible.
Guest:The way they don't pay attention.
Guest:You're doing yoga.
Marc:It's important.
Marc:I know it's important.
Marc:Did you ever meet Trump?
Marc:Did you ever do functions with him?
Guest:Yeah, no, I did.
Guest:I had a dinner with him one time because, you know, what's his name?
Guest:Governor of Minnesota at one point.
Guest:Wrestler.
Guest:uh ventura jesse jesse ventura yeah sorry my brain obviously someone robbed my memory bank it keeps getting worse and so yeah it's uh i don't think i'm helping but i but so jesse ventura uh he called me and he says i'm coming to new york because i was there yeah and i'm having dinner with trump he's going to try to convince me to be his vice presidential running right on the democratic ticket for the 2004 election this in 2002
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I sat through that dinner.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was... You didn't say it?
Guest:You realize how a second can be fast or a second can just feel like forever.
Guest:You realize that... It was a squirmy second.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I was so...
Guest:It's just that he just wants to talk about himself, and he does continually.
Guest:The things I read that he says, it's almost like a God complex.
Guest:It's a sickness.
Marc:There's a sickness to it.
Marc:There's a pathological self-centeredness.
Marc:Yeah, it's a real issue.
Marc:I was on Conan O'Brien and he was the other guest and I just remember this was back in the 90s in New York and I was the second guest and we were both in our dressing rooms and Frank, the segment producer, goes, you wanna meet Trump?
Marc:And I was like, nah, nah.
Marc:Like even then I'm like, I don't need to.
Guest:So what was he like on the show?
Marc:Were you there when he was on?
Marc:He was one of the, you know, a reliable clown, you know, back then.
Marc:For all of them, for Stern and Conan and all the shows in New York.
Marc:They're like, get that weird kind of like self-centered rich guy to come be his weird self.
Marc:He was a clown.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but I do think it's a dangerous thing to just paint him as a clown because he's getting a lot done in the wrong way.
Marc:I'm saying that's what he was, what he is now.
Guest:No, I get what you're saying, but I'm just saying a lot of my friends look at him as this clown.
Guest:You got to take him seriously because he understands business and he's doing everything.
Guest:Like we say, he's a business guy working for bigger businessmen and he's doing everything he wants.
Marc:And he understands how to work up morons into a fucking rabid, you know, frenzy.
Guest:Oh, these speeches sometimes.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:Come on, man.
Marc:But let's not get down too far down that rabbit hole.
Guest:Let's get out of that rabbit hole.
Marc:We started with the satire of the media causing, like, the natural-born killers.
Marc:But, okay, so I guess the other question is in terms of, like, just some of the more career stuff.
Marc:So in order to do natural-born killers, you submerge yourself into the insanity of those who have came before you in the psychopathic killing realm.
Marc:Now, when you work with Milosz,
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you actually had to, you spent time with Larry Flint.
Marc:He was available.
Guest:Oh, I spent a lot of time with him, and I studied him, and I read everything, everything.
Guest:All of the little things in front of the hustlers, he'd write a little, I forget, just from the editor-in-chief, and put a lot of those little snippets from that into the script.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did he as a person sort of influence the way you approach your life?
Guest:Yes, he did.
Guest:Because he was so bold and so – he'd get arrested without thinking about it.
Guest:And I'd never – well, I guess I'd been arrested prior to that, but I never thought to –
Guest:Then I went and climbed the Golden Gate Bridge and got arrested.
Guest:I knew I was going to get arrested or other actions that I knew I was going to get arrested.
Guest:For cause.
Guest:Yeah, but I was more in the Larry Flint.
Guest:If I hadn't played that part, I never would have done that.
Guest:I was disinclined to want to ever get arrested.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So the idea of civil disobedience being an important way to carry and convey a message at the risk of being arrested, that was just a minor liability to making a statement that needed to be made.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you learned that from Larry directly.
Guest:Yeah, learned that from Larry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I still, I love Larry.
Guest:I think he's an incredible guy.
Guest:I don't know why he doesn't just sell off all that stuff and be done with it.
Guest:He's still involved?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Big time.
Marc:Still in it.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:But he's just a great business mind.
Guest:I think he has 32 different publications.
Guest:I know there's a lot of—we've upset some Christians today, but now talking glowingly about—
Guest:Christians and women.
Marc:You get a doubleheader with him.
Guest:Anyway, I think he's an incredible guy because he's so honest and so unafraid to say exactly what he's thinking.
Marc:Yeah, I think no matter what it is, he definitely was one of those guys like, you know, there is a it's a different time now.
Marc:But I think that what he was fighting for in terms of, you know, freedom of speech and freedom of expression and what it means, what the Constitution means and not to be fucked with, you know, he definitely had his time and was important, you know.
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:I mean, I don't I think all the pornography stuff is unfortunate.
Guest:I don't I'm not a big believer in that.
Guest:I think it's very detrimental both to the people doing it and to the minds, the people reading it.
Guest:And I just think it's it's I don't think it's great.
Guest:Now, there's some people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who are holed up in their house, and they're never going to meet anybody.
Guest:So let them happen.
Guest:For those people, I could see how it would be helpful.
Guest:Give the end cells porn.
Guest:They're out in Glendale.
Guest:They're up in the top.
Marc:I think if you frame it like anything else that gets you off, you can't go too far with it.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:It's true.
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:You know, it's like, you know, you're getting off on it, literally.
Marc:So if you're spending, let's say, upwards of three to 30 hours a week with porn, maybe shift to it.
Marc:Make some changes.
Marc:But working with Foreman was amazing in terms of, he sounds like a pretty amazing director, that guy.
Guest:He was incredible, man.
Guest:He just made you feel like he was like a father figure who just loved you and gave you first thing in the morning.
Guest:Big hug.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Woody, come here.
Guest:Big hug.
Guest:You know, today we're going to try.
Guest:It doesn't matter.
Guest:You do this.
Guest:You do what you want.
Guest:You know, like he was so open and, but brilliant.
Guest:I mean, boy, that guy knows how to put together a film and, you know, some of my favorite films, you know.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:And I guess it's weird when you shoot a movie, you don't always know what you're going to get at the end.
Marc:I mean, even if it feels good on set, you're like, no, no, no.
Marc:How is he going to put that together?
Guest:Yeah, the whole thing with, oh my God, I loved the way Larry Flint turned out.
Guest:Yeah, it was great.
Guest:You know, Amadeus, Cuckoo's Nest, I mean, he's a master.
Guest:Well, yeah, I mean, he's passed, but I still, I think of him all the time.
Marc:Yeah, and what about those Farrelly brothers?
Guest:Oh, I love those guys.
Marc:That movie is so fucking insane, dude.
Guest:Oh, the Kingpin.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I love that movie.
Guest:You know, it's ironic because when I first saw the movie, and it's unfortunate, and as an actor, I think you can attest to this, sometimes you shouldn't see the movie with anybody else around because the first time I saw it,
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:There were other people around, and there were a lot of people from Fox.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I just was thinking of all the shit that got cut out.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:And I just said right at the end of it, I just stood up and walked out the door in a huff.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Why, because you were mad?
Guest:I was mad, and I didn't think it was good, and I didn't talk to Petey for another year and a half.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Pete Fairley.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then my daughter, I have a 13-year-old, but someone gave me this wild gift, which really showed me how much shit I'd done, which was they gave me like a grocery bag full for, I don't know, Christmas or birthday.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:of everything i'd done yeah including you know like all the cheers yeah all dvds yeah back when those were relevant yes but you know it was amazing how much stuff was in there but anyway i threw it on the floor i took out natural born killers and some of them and then i said to my daughter uh this is a few years back i said you know is there anything you want to watch and she pointed to
Guest:Kingpin.
Guest:Well, now I hadn't watched it.
Guest:And Petey had said to me after we'd started talking again, just watch it again.
Guest:Give it another chance.
Guest:And I hadn't.
Guest:And so she got me to watch it.
Guest:This is probably like, I don't know, three years ago or something.
Guest:And so we watched Kingpin and I was like, damn, that's a good movie.
Guest:It's so funny.
Guest:Such great art.
Guest:They're great.
Guest:The heart in those movies and the comedy, all of their movies are just phenomenal.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that tone of just like, you know, what else is going to happen to this guy?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That must be a fun thing to play.
Marc:Just a sort of like, oh, God.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It never stops.
Guest:It was so fun, man.
Guest:Great working with those guys.
Marc:What was the other one that I was thinking about for classic moments forever is when in No Country for Old Men where you know he's going to kill you.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Just sitting in that chair.
Guest:Sitting in the chair.
Guest:Yeah, I thought that was...
Guest:I remember Javier was so, the stuff he was doing was just so odd.
Guest:I thought, I wonder if he's got a real handle on this.
Guest:Then I watch it later and it's just brilliant.
Marc:Oh, because when you're in the room with it, you're like.
Guest:Yeah, it's like he's got this thing, this little net around his hair.
Guest:So he takes it off before the thing and keeps his hair.
Guest:And then the way he's talking is kind of very flat, monotone-ish.
Guest:And I just say, what the hell?
Marc:Yeah, because there's part of you thinking, how is this going to be anything but ridiculous?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, I don't know if I thought ridiculous, but I didn't know if it would tonally.
Guest:Anyway, of course, you watch it later and it's just literally brilliant.
Guest:Horrifying.
Marc:oh yeah and i watched wilson too i liked that book that was good too oh thank you i love that movie yeah well i like that i like the book it's such a weird thing to make it like when what makes you decide to do a movie like that like you know because it seems like you can do whatever you want and you do huge movies i mean christ the hunger games i mean so a little movie comes in is that something you do for fun or you want to help or you think it's a good you know it's
Guest:interesting i've gotten so many films that i gotta say you know these films i know for a fact no one's gonna see you know like i can read it and be just utterly certain no one will see this move right and uh you know like i i could sit here and list all
Guest:off a bunch of them but then there's a part of me that says it doesn't matter you know like it's important to do what you think could end up being a great movie and I thought Wilson turned out amazing I loved it's so such a
Guest:interesting quirky you know yeah comedy uh but of course nobody saw that and you know it depends on the distribution which at the time fox fox 2000 didn't feel like uh shall we say revving up the engines for that one no they just sort of swift it out there and see what it do it on its own
Guest:No, I got to even Fox 2000s going.
Guest:No, I shouldn't have said that.
Guest:That's terrible.
Marc:Oh, you were in that Out of the Furnace movie.
Marc:Sorry for just being that kind of interviewer.
Guest:Yeah, Out of the Furnace.
Marc:Because I remember that's the boxing, weird hillbilly boxing movie.
Marc:Is that what that one was?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was a wild movie.
Marc:Well, I met that guy, Scott Cooper, on a plane.
Guest:Yes, that guy is amazing.
Marc:He is, isn't he?
Guest:Amazing director.
Guest:Yeah, just... And, you know, he's an actor.
Guest:He's like you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's a renaissance man.
Guest:Yeah, he does a lot of shit.
Guest:And he is... That guy is... He's one of those guys who just...
Guest:No matter what's going on, he will forge, he'll push through and he will make this thing great.
Guest:He hasn't done anything but great.
Marc:I think that's true.
Marc:I think he does it well.
Marc:He definitely has a style and he definitely takes chances.
Marc:It feels like one of those 70s dudes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We're going to fucking make this movie no matter what.
Guest:In fact, I know I came and visited him.
Guest:He was in Santa Fe, and he was doing the movie, starts with an H. Hostages or Hostiles?
Guest:Hostiles.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because I wanted to say hostages.
Guest:Yeah, Hostiles.
Marc:I like that movie.
Guest:Yeah, I thought it was amazing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But he had this, they were right in the season.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when there'd be a lightning strike, from the time of the lightning strike,
Guest:30 minutes before they could do anything.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:If there was a lightning strike.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then, you know, they'd maybe get 10 minutes after that.
Guest:Boom, another lightning strike.
Guest:Stop another 30.
Guest:And they're out on the planes or whatever?
Guest:And out on the planes up there above Santa Fe.
Guest:And I mean, I know he was having such a hard time, but he made that movie and it's amazing.
Marc:And then this, what was Three Billboards?
Marc:Was that something he thought was going to be like that or no?
Marc:Or did you know that was going to be a big deal?
Guest:Well, I had no way to know, but Martin McDonough is someone, no matter what he asked me to do ever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'll do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No matter what it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And in fact, so years before, so.
Guest:I became kind of obsessed with, I started reading these Irish playwrights.
Guest:He's kind of English, but he's really Irish heritage.
Guest:Anyway, I read all of his plays.
Guest:And then I went to Dublin, and then I got a hold of him, and I said, I'd love to meet you.
Guest:And so he came over from London.
Guest:And anyway, we had the best time, and we've been friends ever since.
Guest:And
Guest:So then later I was in London doing a play, and I like to think I kind of influenced him to work with the guy I was working with doing that play, who's John Crowley, who's an incredible director.
Marc:I don't know if you know of him.
Marc:Theater director?
Marc:Amazing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but theater, but then has done movies now.
Guest:So he worked with him on his next play, which was The Pillow Man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he asked me to do the part in there that I, Billy Crudup ended up doing it, but I just, I read The Pillow Man.
Guest:I said, well, the darkness has finally overcome the light.
Guest:He always has this incredible balance in his plays.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then, so I didn't do it.
Guest:Then I went and saw it later and I was like, masterpiece, one of the greatest things I've ever seen on stage.
Guest:You know, after that, I was like, anything you ever want me to do, I'm in.
Guest:So I didn't know with the three billboards how...
Guest:And then, you know, when I saw it, I just happened to be in London and I got a text from him.
Guest:He says, hey, I just did it, you know, it's not finished, but do you want to come up?
Guest:And so I found my way there and it was, I just saw it on a little screen, a little computer screen.
Guest:And it was like, oh my God, oh my God, this is amazing.
Guest:I thought it was just mind blowing how good it was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I thought, yeah, finally Martin McDonough is like the third Coen brother.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He is so great now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And great cast.
Marc:Working with Sam was good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, great.
Guest:Love Sam.
Marc:Love.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Have you ever worked with him?
Marc:We're working together on an animated thing now.
Guest:Oh, are you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, great.
Marc:I mean, I can't talk about it.
Marc:I just realized.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:Well, I'll ask him then.
Marc:Yeah, it just started.
Marc:We just did a day where we were kind of working off each other.
Marc:Like, I play, we're like best pals.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:And it's an animated trip.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Marc:He's a sweet guy.
Marc:You know, he's a real generous actor guy.
Marc:He's a sweetheart, funny and shit.
Marc:And McDormand, Frances, that's intense.
Marc:Yeah, she's amazing.
Marc:You seem to be, like, there seems to be a theme in some of these characters where you're just sort of like this...
Marc:You know, life is kind of weighed down on you.
Guest:Weighs down on you, yeah.
Marc:Even in The True Detective, that was fucking great.
Marc:Did you love doing that?
Guest:I didn't love doing it as much as I loved it when I saw it.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Because at the time, it was insanely long hours.
Guest:I'm not going to get into movie star blues and B-flat minor or anything, but...
Guest:I will say, and also Matthew was pissing me off because he was always in character and he would do shit that I just, I wanted to hit him.
Guest:He knows this, so I don't care if he hears this.
Guest:He knows this.
Guest:And it was just him being in character, being in that character.
Guest:But then, you know, ultimately when I saw it, I was super psyched about it.
Marc:Well, how often does that happen when you work with people because you're not a like stay in character all the time guy?
Guest:No, no, I don't do that.
Guest:As soon as the take's done, I'm like, just let's tell jokes and fuck around.
Guest:Have some food.
Guest:Have some food.
Guest:But, you know, I take it seriously.
Guest:I just don't necessarily feel like I need to just stay in care.
Marc:If you don't need to do that, you don't need to do that.
Marc:And The Highwaymen, I thought, was sort of an interesting movie because that's another movie where you're like, oh, here we go.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Got to go to work again.
Marc:Got to go do this.
Marc:But what about like when you work with someone like Cosner?
Marc:Is that like comfortable?
Guest:Yeah, actually, you know, he's he's a real professional.
Guest:I mean, he told me when I'm not working, he says, I think about this like 15 hours a day.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Whatever movie's coming out?
Guest:Even when he's working.
Guest:I mean, he's just thinking about it.
Guest:And I thought, well, now, that's obviously quite an exaggeration for a fact.
Guest:And then I realized as I'm working with him, he does think about it.
Guest:all the time like he really the role it just well just the whole thing you know like how this scene will play out or what should be the prop in this or or you know does that make sense here you know what i mean like he's just constantly thinking about so he was a real professional i liked working with him uh and and you know what was cool about that yes
Guest:You know how Netflix doesn't necessarily reveal how many people see things, but they did let us know that in the first month, 40 million households saw that.
Guest:Really?
Guest:In one month.
Guest:So they say no one ever watches alone.
Guest:So that's at least two people.
Guest:So that's 80 million people in a month.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like more than almost everything I've done combined.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:Well, that's an exaggeration, but it really was- Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:You know, and now I don't want to be one of these guys who, you know, like I understand this concept of the death of cinema.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I think that it could very well be.
Guest:Certainly things have shifted markedly because of Amazon and Netflix.
Guest:But on the other hand, I don't know.
Guest:If that's the way things are going, we got to figure out how to get on.
Guest:But we don't ever want there not to be a time where people go to the cinema.
Guest:Sure, it goes to the movies.
Guest:Yeah, I went to the movies last night.
Marc:Oh, what'd you go to see?
Marc:The Breaking Bad movie, the new one with Aaron Paul.
Marc:You're kidding.
Marc:Yeah, El Camino.
Marc:They did a premiere last night.
Marc:Of Breaking Bad.
Marc:It's called El Camino.
Marc:And it's more following his character.
Marc:It's right after.
Marc:It picks up right when Aaron Paul is driving away.
Guest:Oh, I have to see that immediately.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:Yeah, it's good.
Marc:It's good.
Guest:Great, great.
Marc:Yeah, it's going to be on Netflix on Friday.
Guest:Oh, it's a Netflix movie.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You saw it at the cinema.
Marc:Yeah, I saw it at that one in Westwood.
Marc:What is it, the Rialto, that old one.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Oh, that's a nice movie.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, and they were all there.
Marc:I get excited when I see the celebrities.
Yeah.
Guest:They get excited when they see you too, man.
Marc:Yeah, they do sometimes.
Guest:I like Glow, by the way.
Marc:Thank you very much.
Marc:I love Glow.
Marc:It's fun, right?
Marc:Wild world.
Guest:So good.
Marc:They do it really well.
Guest:Really, really cool.
Guest:But I will say I love this, though.
Guest:I love that you still do this out of your house here at Glendale.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:I'm glad you came by.
Marc:I think we did good.
Marc:It's great talking with you, man.
Marc:Good talking to you.
Marc:Good luck with everything and have fun in Hawaii, man.
Marc:I think, do you ever get the feeling like, I mean, I'm a little neurotic, but do you ever kind of get freaked out that you're in the middle of the ocean just on an island?
Marc:It's not like I'm just floating out there, a little floaty.
Marc:No, I know, but like I've had moments on Kauai where I'm like, we're far away, man, and it's a little island, and if the water comes up, we're fucked.
Guest:Oh, well, yeah, you worry sometimes about that, but honestly, I worry more being on the mainland.
Guest:It's like we look at, like someone said to my wife one time, are you looking forward to getting back to the real world?
Guest:And she was like, oh, no, this is the real world because we really feel like in...
Guest:In Maui, that's how life should be.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:It's gotten a little scary.
Guest:You put it on your swim trunks, you go pick a fruit off the tree, and then you head down to the water.
Marc:I mean, that's how life should be.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:I think you're right.
Marc:All right, I'll meet you down there.
Guest:Okay, Mike.
Marc:Great talking to you, man.
Marc:Thanks, buddy.
Marc:You too.
Marc:Okay, Woody Harrelson, Zombieland Double Tap, in theaters tomorrow, Friday, October 18th.
Marc:Yeah, go to WTFPod.com for tickets to the Nashville show or the Atlanta show or the Masonic in San Francisco.
Marc:And all other things.
Marc:You can go to the merch, too, and get stuff.
Marc:Okay, I've hooked up a new box.
Marc:It's not a new box.
Marc:It's an old box.
Marc:It's kind of a repeater thing.
Marc:I'm kind of digging around in the boxes.
Marc:Oh, you guys.
Marc:Enjoy.
Marc:Here's some three chords.
Guest:Boomer lives.