Episode 1057 - Jeannie Gaffigan
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuckologians?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:It's Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:My pod cash.
Marc:This is my pod cash.
Marc:You'll make a little cash, but this is my podcast.
Marc:My podcast.
Marc:WTF is what it's called.
Marc:Did you tune in for the right one?
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you for being here.
Marc:What's going on?
Marc:Sorry, I'm a little elated, kind of.
Marc:I'm going... There's a couple ways I'm going.
Marc:There's part of me that's excited because impeachment is underway.
Marc:It's very exciting because... Not that we're going to get this scumbag out of office, but maybe, maybe, maybe some of the more...
Marc:dug-in kind of brain-fucked people will see that he's a major piece of garbage.
Marc:But I doubt it.
Marc:I doubt it.
Marc:And right there, I don't mean to get political.
Marc:I believe I'm being objective.
Marc:I don't believe I'm being partisan.
Marc:I believe I'm being logical.
Marc:I believe I'm being an observant person.
Marc:There is no doubt, public or private, this man, who is our president, is one of the worst people that's ever lived.
Marc:Truly, truly, but also a spectacle and a prime example of beautiful narcissistic hucksterism that could only come to be in this great land of ours.
Marc:So it's it cuts both ways.
Marc:You know, there is something profoundly American and amazing about the corrupt, hustling, conman, grifter.
Marc:full-on narcissist dude that our president is and also how horrible he is.
Marc:Hey man, he goes to where the love is, right?
Marc:He goes to where the love is and the love is coming from monsters.
Marc:And also spare me the email saying like, hey man, you're dividing your audience.
Marc:Am I though?
Marc:Am I really?
Marc:Look, we'll see what happens.
Marc:It's just going to be exciting to see him preoccupied with this shit for a year and a half.
Marc:Anyway, can I get a few laughs?
Marc:Can I get a little bit of schadenfreude chuckles?
Marc:Can I get a little of the appreciating the pain of others when it's that guy, the king of laughing at pain of others?
Marc:The king of causing horrendous anger and pain in others and just loving every second of it.
Marc:Can't we have it too?
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:Anyway, tomorrow is my birthday.
Marc:I'm going to be 56 years old, which is astounding.
Marc:It's not a big birthday, but it is a, you know, it's getting up there, right?
Marc:It's hard for me to know.
Marc:It's hard for me to tell.
Marc:I don't have children, so I don't see that happening.
Marc:I've got cats who are aging, but it's not the same.
Marc:My parents are still alive, so I don't really feel it, but I know 56 is big.
Marc:I know it's not 60, but I have a theory about these junctures in people's ages.
Marc:I think if you make it past 23, it gets a little dicey between 23 and 27.
Marc:If you make it through that, you're going to live into your 30s, all right?
Marc:And then this is just theories I have.
Marc:And then...
Marc:Late 30s, from 38 to 41, things can happen in there.
Marc:And then 49 to 53, a little dicey.
Marc:But once you make it to 56, you're probably going to get into 60.
Marc:I don't know what this theory is based on.
Marc:I just know that maybe there's stats on it.
Marc:I just know that in the 20s, when people go down, it's around between 23 and 27, 28.
Marc:And in their 30s, when people go down, it's between 36 and 39.
Marc:I'm speculating.
Marc:Maybe it's just my little theory.
Marc:But I think if I make it through till tomorrow, I might be good for a couple of years.
Marc:But I don't know.
Marc:Wouldn't it be sad if I didn't?
Marc:And then you could play this back and be like, he wasn't right.
Marc:But it's my birthday tomorrow.
Marc:Can you fucking believe it?
Marc:Now, my guest today on the show is Jeannie Gaffigan, that's Jim Gaffigan's wife, has written a beautiful book about her brain tumor.
Marc:Yeah, it's called When Life Gives You Pears, The Healing Power of Family, Faith, and Funny People.
Marc:It comes out next Tuesday, October 1st, and you can pre-order it now.
Marc:And Jeannie had a huge brain tumor in her head.
Marc:And she didn't know it.
Marc:And she found out about it.
Marc:And she was a little negligent, which we talk about.
Marc:But they got it out of there.
Marc:And she's on the she's she's bouncing back.
Marc:They got a pair sized brain tumor out of her fucking head.
Marc:And she's she's she's OK.
Marc:And she's here to talk about it and write a book about it.
Marc:Man, you know, a lot of us, myself included, are hypochondriacs or always think there's something wrong.
Marc:And this is a woman who didn't really know there was something wrong.
Marc:And even when there were signs of it, she didn't follow through on.
Marc:She didn't follow up on the signs.
Marc:And she waited.
Marc:It's kind of a harrowing tale.
Marc:But I was excited to talk to her.
Marc:I'd met her many times over the years because of Jim.
Marc:And this was just a genie solo with her stuff, with her book, with her great tale of survival.
Marc:Now...
Marc:I do have these two old Masonic texts that I think I'm going to get into a little bit.
Marc:There's a couple of things on my plate that are going to start happening.
Marc:OK, one of them is I'm going to watch a few Marvel movies and see what happens and reflect with you.
Marc:And another thing is I'm going to do some Masonic research and hopefully not fall back down into that rabbit hole.
Marc:I did get an email from a guy that framed the Marvel thing in a kind of a nice way.
Marc:A guy named Bill.
Marc:Self-parenting in the subject line.
Marc:My parents weren't that great either.
Marc:I was super lucky to have teachers and coaches to fill the void and pre-third grade something else.
Marc:I gave it up in third grade because I decided that I was too old for it.
Marc:I'm 50 now.
Marc:His name is Stanley Martin Lieber, known as Stan Lee.
Marc:He was also one of those teachers, coaches, et cetera, that filled in as a parent.
Marc:But at the age of nine, I decided that I was too cool for comics.
Marc:Stan's message from when I was young stuck with me even when I abandoned his medium.
Marc:So imagine all that, a music star, a comic star, someone that you abandoned because you had outgrown them.
Marc:And then the world turns and their stories take a second pass.
Marc:Imagine the thrill of truths that you dismissed as uncool becoming mainstream or just the thrill of those messengers becoming thrilling to new generations.
Marc:I'm not a nerd for this.
Marc:I'm just a 50 year old dude that gets chills when he sees his childhood heroes come to life on the big screen and have the worthy message laid down by a dude named Stan.
Marc:Hmm.
Marc:That's kind of an interesting take on it.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you, Bill.
Marc:So going to be 56 tomorrow if I make it through tonight.
Marc:I'm planning on it.
Marc:Man, I'm off the nicotine now for a month and a few days.
Marc:A month and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, four or five days.
Marc:And I got to tell you, man, I don't feel that much better.
Marc:You know, I'm happy to be out from under it.
Marc:But like I wake up, still wake up groggy, still don't feel good.
Marc:And I'm getting doughy because my metabolism has shifted.
Marc:And that's always why I drift back and also a little depressed.
Marc:I forget that when you're eating like a shit ton of nicotine all day long, that gets you, keeps your dopamine just kind of buzzing, just kind of humming along.
Marc:And now without it, like I have moments of dark reflection and hours of sadness and maybe minutes of hopelessness.
Marc:I had some of those before, but it just feels like, man, there are moments where I'm like, am I in this or am I, can I just will my way out of it?
Marc:See, that's where I would do the nicotine.
Marc:Why will your way out of it when you can just keep percolating?
Marc:Get that thing kind of bubbling.
Marc:Keep it going.
Marc:Keep the hum going.
Marc:No, the hum is not going, and I'm getting lardy.
Marc:Fucking fuck.
Marc:Anyway, I'll stick with it.
Marc:I'm going to try to work with this metabolism that is offered to me.
Marc:I got an email from a guy.
Marc:This is why I said this at the top of the show.
Marc:What the fuckologian?
Marc:And look, man, he says, Dear Mr. Marin, I write you a few steps from the Pantheon in Rome, which is also a Catholic church, as I'm listening to your remarks on Italian churches and their glamorous and monumental seductions.
Marc:A few days ago, you remarked on how you're turning to a
Marc:fascination with water and rocks now and how maybe that's all you need as you spoke i thought of george harrison i believe it is in the scorsese documentary of harrison where harrison's son donnie says that at some point all george wanted to do was move earth around outside in his yard here and there sculpting spaces close to natural elemental realities harrison cast himself ever further from a church heritage that he came to think of as too small for him
Marc:I feel you are a kindred spirit in the great midlife or post midlife rethink that some of us are fortunate to experience.
Marc:But who are your mentors in that, brother?
Marc:I'd love to know to whom you're looking.
Marc:I believe it was about eight years ago that you gave a shout out to the what the fuckologians.
Marc:More than ever, that probably describes the theology that I do, full of equal measures of wonder and disbelief.
Marc:A fellow traveler, Tom, a professor of religion, mind you.
Marc:Who are my mentors?
Marc:Who are my people?
Marc:Who do I look to for my spiritual guidance?
Marc:I don't have any, man.
Marc:I don't have any.
Marc:But I get it.
Marc:I get the Zen.
Marc:I get the universal hum.
Marc:I get the frequencies.
Marc:I get the layers, man.
Marc:I get the universal consciousness possibilities.
Marc:I get the sort of things that transcend serendipity.
Marc:Synchronicities is what I'm talking about.
Marc:I've investigated that stuff.
Marc:Sometimes it's proportionate.
Marc:Sometimes coincidences are just coincidences because you are swimming in circles usually in your life.
Marc:You move through the same grids over and over again.
Marc:And the possibility of engaging in serendipitous, synchronistic kind of moments, you know, happens.
Marc:But why explain it?
Marc:I've always been open to the poetry of things, but I've always been sort of also compelled and driven to the edge of the Pacific Northwest.
Marc:There's some part of my brain that was sort of programmed when I lived in Alaska when I was 1969.
Marc:I was six years old.
Marc:Something about the weight of the world that you feel in the sky up there.
Marc:And for some reason, I feel some of that when I go to Ireland, when I'm on the beach, when there's a certain type of rock.
Marc:I'm not a laying the beach and sweat type of dude.
Marc:I don't like looking at the flat horizon from a beach with the smell of sunblock on my face.
Marc:Just looking at like, look at man, look at all that water.
Marc:It just goes off and you can't see the end of it.
Marc:That does nothing for me.
Marc:But if I'm on the top of a craggy cliff where there's green and just breaking water and there's heavy gray skies, maybe a crispness in the air, I feel like I can live in that moment forever, man.
Marc:That's just poetry.
Marc:I got no expectations from any almighty.
Marc:I'm no spiritual searcher.
Marc:I don't go into synagogues or temples or mosques, you know, looking for something.
Marc:I can feel the hum in there.
Marc:I can feel the space.
Marc:I know why it's electrified.
Marc:I know what the power of prayer can do and the sort of...
Marc:Residue leads on the spaces where it happens.
Marc:I understand that human beings, when they're humbled, create a certain kind of juice that fills the air with a kind of hope.
Marc:I get all that.
Marc:I'm not looking for that.
Marc:I don't know if that's communicating or conversing with God, but I feel it and I know it.
Marc:You understand what I'm saying?
Marc:I got no mentors in this shit.
Marc:I just like standing on a cliff and looking out at the craggy rocks in a crisp day with little spots of green behind me.
Marc:Maybe I don't have to be too high on the cliff.
Marc:I could be at the bottom of the cliff, but just as long as the rocks are there around me and I can see the water and I can see it, you know, a little rough, a little crisp, a little gray on the skyline.
Marc:I don't know what it's all about, though.
Marc:Water's rising, man.
Marc:High water everywhere.
Marc:That's what Bob said.
Marc:So that's the trouble.
Marc:But I don't know.
Marc:I'm going to get in under the wire to the great unknown.
Marc:Dig it.
Marc:This is an amazing journey that we're about to embark on with the...
Marc:Jeannie Gaffigan, who has written a book about her brain tumor called When Life Gives You Pears, The Healing Power of Family, Faith, and Funny People.
Marc:Comes out next Tuesday, October 1st.
Marc:You can pre-order it now.
Marc:And this is me talking to Jeannie about her pear-sized brain tumor that she survived.
Oh.
Marc:What were you going to tell me?
Guest:The last time we did your podcast.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Or maybe the time Jim did it.
Guest:Anyway, at some point, we got a mug with a cat on it.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:That is like the most popular mug in my office.
Guest:So everyone always wants that mug.
Marc:With the cat in my face, the three cats in my face?
Guest:Yeah, it's an amazing mug.
Guest:It's like a piece of art.
Marc:Yeah, I have more.
Guest:It really shouldn't be used for drinking because it should be on a mantle or something.
Marc:I guess, but the weird thing about pottery is that it's a practical art form.
Marc:You should be able to use it.
Marc:It's functional.
Marc:And even though it's a one-of-a-kind thing, you should enjoy it and drink out of it.
Marc:Do you need another one?
Marc:Is that what you're telling me?
Guest:I kind of am because I really feel like every time I go back to the office, I'm not going to see that mug because people come in and out and work and every once in a while I'm like, where's the Marin mug?
Guest:It's gone.
Marc:I will give you another one.
Marc:I have more.
Marc:I don't, that one's probably, there's been different editions of them.
Marc:They're all kind of look different.
Marc:Like I imagine the one you have is kind of like this one.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:It is.
Marc:Well, so I think the ones now, they're similar, but they're, he changes up the style a little bit, but I'll, I'll set you up with one.
Guest:I have a vintage edition.
Marc:You do.
Marc:You do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's been many different editions.
Guest:So it's very popular around the office.
Marc:Well, good.
Marc:And where's the office in New York?
Guest:It's in New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:This is now this is your office.
Marc:Are you in Jim's office?
Guest:Mine in Jim's office.
Marc:The Gaffigan Industries.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's called Chimichanga Productions.
Marc:Is it Chimichanga Productions?
Guest:Yes, it is.
Marc:And your position there is what?
Marc:The runner of things?
Guest:My position?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I'm kind of the runner of things.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And sock picker-upper.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, Jim takes his socks off under the desk.
Guest:I just take them off and put them next to the desk.
Marc:But this is at the office, though.
Marc:Is the office in your house?
Guest:It's in our house, yeah.
Guest:It's attached to our house.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You guys have a building, basically.
Guest:We have an apartment on a floor of a building and on the same floor is the office and there's a door that goes into our house.
Guest:So it's like in our house.
Guest:It's not quite as in a room.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you have people working in the office?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:So they come in the house too?
Guest:They come in the office door.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:All right.
Guest:But they can come in the house too.
Guest:We don't usually have people that I wouldn't trust to be in the house working in the office.
Marc:So now what's going on with your, like, I know that the book, When Life Gives You Pairs, which we now have established as a pear-shaped tumor in your head.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:In your head.
Marc:Not anymore.
Marc:It's gone.
Marc:It's gone.
Marc:Now, where are you?
Marc:I mean, you've written this book.
Marc:It's been, how long ago did they remove the thing?
Guest:In April of 2017.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Okay, a couple years ago, two and a half years ago.
Guest:The recovery was pretty bad from it.
Guest:But the surgery itself was amazingly successful.
Guest:But you can see I'm still kind of affected by the residual.
Marc:Sure, I know.
Marc:I mean, I was sort of surprised.
Marc:But, I mean, let's go back because, like, the last time – I can't – I mean, I saw you and Jim –
Marc:Back when I was in New York, we recorded one, the two of you, right?
Marc:And then Jim came in here by himself, I think, somewhere along the line.
Guest:Well, I also came here with Jim in your garage.
Marc:You were in the garage too.
Marc:So you guys have really, I guess Jim's been on it three times, maybe.
Marc:Oh, one time I think I interviewed the two of you at Air America, when I was at Air America probably.
Marc:I can't remember where the two of us... I remember it was in New York, though, right?
Marc:Do you remember?
Guest:I'm the wrong person to ask because I had brain surgery.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I mean, I know you're jealous of that excuse, but that's my excuse.
Marc:Either way, we've met several times, usually with Jim and the two of you on the show.
Marc:And then I met you before back in the day in New York at some point that I probably don't remember.
Marc:Do you remember?
Guest:Of course.
Yeah.
Guest:That I remember.
Marc:What do you remember?
Guest:I remember seeing you all the time.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember that you and Jim had this like fake competition going back for a while back in like the early 2000s.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like you would just like do these like gags to each other all the time.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's what I remember.
Marc:Busting each other's balls.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Me and Gaffigan.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Back when we were kids.
Guest:Back in New York in the day.
Marc:How like how long when did you meet Jim?
Guest:I met Jim in April of 2000.
Guest:So a long time ago.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you were also but you were like, I just want to sort of set this because we've talked about this before.
Marc:But now since I've talked to you both, it's sort of been established that you're not only are you married to Jim, but you guys are writing partners, your production partners.
Marc:And initially, you know, you were you were performing as well.
Guest:Initially, I was on stage doing acting, and Jim was a stand-up, and I didn't know anything about stand-up.
Marc:You weren't doing improv or anything?
Guest:I was doing improv.
Guest:I absolutely was doing improv, but I was not in the stand-up world at all.
Guest:But my path crossed with Jim,
Guest:at one of those shows in New York at Boston Comedy Club or something where they had sketch and stand-up and whatever.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But the whole thing was that Jim lived on my block.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And he stood out like a sore thumb, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so I would pass him all the time.
Marc:The doughy white guy.
Guest:Doughy white guy.
Marc:Very white guy.
Marc:Stood out like a pale thumb.
Guest:And I would pass him all the time.
Guest:And after you pass someone in New York all the time, they're like, hello, hello, you know?
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And it's just weird not to acknowledge.
Guest:So essentially, then I saw him at a stand-up club, and he was really good.
Guest:He was really, really funny.
Guest:And I was in a sketch group.
Guest:And when I ran into him,
Guest:on the street, I said, hey, I saw you.
Guest:You're a stand-up comedian.
Guest:He wasn't on TV or anything like that, but he was very clearly a very funny comedian.
Marc:Well, he was doing a little TV by then, 2000, probably.
Guest:Yeah, I think he might have just recorded his half-hour Comedy Central.
Marc:That makes sense.
Guest:But I wasn't a...
Marc:You didn't watch him, right.
Guest:It's like I didn't really know the stand-up world.
Guest:He asked me who my favorite comedian was, and I said the Monty Python guys.
Marc:Yeah, that's good.
Guest:It's like I just wasn't in that world yet.
Guest:So then, actually, I tell this whole story in my book, so I don't want to give away any spoilers.
Marc:Well, the spoiler is that you don't die of cancer.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's the end.
Guest:So anyway, thanks for having me on.
Marc:Well, I mean, you can tell the stories.
Marc:It's different when you read a story and tell a story.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Well, what I'm saying is that Jim and I, you know, we clicked.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But we started working on each other's things.
Guest:So he, at that point, got his first sitcom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which was called Welcome to New York.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And it was back, you know, he did an appearance on Letterman.
Guest:His first appearance on Letterman.
Marc:So was the deal with Worldwide Pants?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:And they saw him on Letterman.
Guest:And I think Rob Burnett came up to him afterwards and said, you know, we want to do a show based on your comedy.
Guest:It was like the dream come true.
Guest:So meanwhile, Jim and I, you know, started dating.
Guest:And this happened very early on.
Guest:And he was like, they want me to do acting.
Guest:And I'm not an actor.
Guest:I'm a stand-up comedian.
Guest:And I said, well, I'm an actor.
Guest:So I'd be happy to run through the scenes with you and everything like that.
Guest:So that started us working together.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because he's a pretty good actor.
Guest:He's amazing.
Guest:And right away I was like, you're natural.
Guest:You're natural.
Marc:I just saw him in that weird one with the Hill People, with the Goggins, with Walton Goggins, the Pentecostal.
Guest:Oh, the snake candler one.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:What was that called?
Guest:Yeah, please, Mark.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Guest:Them That Follow.
Guest:It's called Them That Follow.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:Yeah, I liked it.
Marc:I talked to Goggins about it.
Guest:I'm still quick.
Guest:I'm still quick.
Guest:You did it.
Marc:I couldn't remember it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Okay, so you start working together primarily as helping him act.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And what happened was is that Rich Voss did a CD.
Guest:He produced his own CD.
Guest:Rich Voss did.
Guest:Rich Voss did.
Guest:And Jim got Rich Voss' CD and came to me and said, do you think you could...
Guest:help me make one of these for myself.
Guest:I mean, this is how long ago this was.
Guest:And I said, sure, I can figure it out.
Guest:So I started going around with Jim to all the clubs and listening to the set and making him a CD.
Guest:So in that, because I was a producer at the time, I produced theater, I produced stuff.
Guest:But, you know, small time.
Guest:So because of that, I really got to know his act.
Guest:And I started saying, you know, this time...
Guest:What if you tagged it like this?
Guest:And he was very resistant.
Guest:You know, I'm sure you.
Marc:I just got resistant when you told me that.
Guest:But look, it's very it's a very insular, you know, singular art.
Marc:Well, some cats are like, you know, open to it.
Marc:Like I when people tell me things, I'll hear it.
Marc:And I've used some.
Marc:You have someone says you could tag it with that.
Marc:I'll take it.
Guest:Well, I mean, now I know that when someone pitches something to you, chances are you thought of that and have moved on in several versions.
Guest:And sometimes it's a brand new idea.
Guest:But this was more like he was more open to it because I was kind of honing.
Guest:So basically I'd say last time you said the manatee this way.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it was funnier because I was in the audience and they got a better reaction.
Guest:So it was that kind of collaboration.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then after like...
Guest:A few years of that, it became more like, you know, how Jim, like, will take a subject like, you know, bacon or something and just hammer it for like 20 minutes.
Guest:So when you have someone else there, it's kind of like, what else about bacon?
Guest:What else about bacon?
Guest:What else about bacon?
Marc:He's known for hammering food items.
Guest:Yes, but he'll go after like a mug for half an hour.
Guest:So that kind of like observational comedy kind of lends itself to kind of a back and forth.
Guest:And so the way in for me, which I wasn't like trying, but it was like he was very resistant to me.
Guest:Like, you know, it'd be funny.
Guest:You should do something about cats.
Guest:Like he'd be like, no, yeah, I'm good.
Guest:But it was more like within the point of view.
Marc:Sure, but you're just dating at this point.
Marc:I mean, it's amazing that you hung in there.
Marc:He must have really loved you because... Well, here's the thing.
Guest:I must have really loved him.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:But the other thing was that it was like I... The first time that he used one of my jokes, it was on... Craig Kilborn used to do the Late Show.
Guest:Remember that?
Guest:And I kind of... I didn't even really pitch him a joke.
Guest:I just said a joke.
Guest:I made something up about something.
Guest:And he thought it was funny.
Guest:And he's like, do you mind if I say that on stage?
Guest:And I'm like, I'd love that.
Guest:That'd be great.
Guest:And so the first time he used one of my jokes, it worked.
Guest:And I felt like I had done it.
Guest:And I never felt that way before.
Guest:So it was a mutually beneficial relationship.
Guest:And I realized how...
Marc:amazing it felt to be able to write someone else's point of view sure instead of just my own point of view well yeah and especially one that you know you you it's so defined in the sense like you know gaff jim's point of view is pretty specific and he has a style so once you get the hang of that you know why not just you know fill his brain up
Guest:But I mean, I'm not going to take credit for his like.
Guest:No, no, I know that.
Marc:But I'm just saying that that the delivery system is solid.
Marc:Like it's like like there's moments where the reason why he's so popular is everybody thinks like Jim sometimes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you can kind of hear the next step in a lot of ways.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Like especially me.
Guest:I have like a Ph.D.
Guest:in Jim Gaffigan.
Guest:I like know what he would say about something.
Guest:But we wound up writing a show together that was loosely based on our lives called The Jim Gaffigan Show.
Marc:I'm sure you... The one with Adam Goldberg?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And that was on... TV Land.
Marc:Yeah, TV Land for what?
Marc:Two, three seasons?
Guest:It was for two seasons.
Guest:We started at CBS.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And then TV Land bought it.
Marc:But by this time, though, like, so you guys get.
Marc:Well, I think what's what's nice and what wasn't apparent early on, I think, which was my point was that, you know, he you both seem he seems to be very OK with giving you the credit you deserve after a certain point.
Guest:After a certain point.
Marc:But there was a few years there where you were like this hidden weapon or that's a diplomatic thing.
Guest:But I mean, I think that there's a lot of hidden weapons out there.
Guest:I think there's a lot of I mean, I know you're skeptical about that, but I think there are a lot of wives and partners.
Marc:No, of course, you know, are.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Telling us to don't say that.
Marc:Say this.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's not nice.
Guest:And it's kind of a very intimate relationship.
Guest:It's very hard to write comedy for someone with such a strong point of view in terms of, I mean, not coming up with it, but pitching it to them and making them open to it.
Guest:Believe me, still, I'll say I don't like that or here's an idea.
Guest:And he just completely ignores me.
Guest:So there's still.
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Marc:But like, I mean, I've been in situations.
Marc:I've been in a lot of relationships where I've either, you know, either I've really kept it to my my own shit.
Marc:Like, you know, you don't get involved in this.
Marc:Or I'll listen belligerently, you know, to commentary about my act and integrate it.
Marc:And then other relationships, I've been like, OK, that's a good idea.
Marc:I'll try it.
Marc:OK, OK.
Marc:You know, it's taken me a long time and several different women.
Marc:So but I think I'm leveling off a little bit.
Guest:Well, I'd love to hear more about that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was just the kind of year after year of working together.
Guest:And it was about, yes, about loving each other very much, but also about trust.
Guest:Because it was clear at a certain point that I wasn't trying to step on him to get somewhere or he wasn't using me for something.
Marc:After how many kids did that become clear?
Marc:Well, look.
Guest:I did not marry him until I knew that there was something really special there.
Guest:And I think that what really actually did it for us was the work ethic.
Guest:Because both of us are like crazy workers.
Guest:And I think that alienates a lot of people out of relationships.
Guest:And I think that both Jim and I are past relationships.
Guest:People get...
Guest:intimidated and jealous of people who want to work so much.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Do you think so?
Guest:Oh, absolutely.
Guest:You mean in a relationship?
Guest:In a relationship.
Guest:If you're like, I'm working or I'm going to, it's very separate and people feel alienated.
Guest:And it's not intentional, but it's like when you have kind of that drive to produce things all the time.
Guest:And even though it wasn't exactly the same thing when we met,
Guest:we both had the same personality in that way.
Guest:Like, I would be working on some project, like, very intensely.
Guest:And he, I mean, before, you know, everything became digitized, Jim had, like, you know, just notebooks and day planners.
Guest:It was like a madman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it was like we both had this kind of, like, almost, like, savant, you know, work style.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And although it was different, it was like we related to each other on a level...
Guest:where we were like, okay, well, this is going to be part of our relationship, working.
Guest:And then it just became working together.
Guest:Yes, and then we had five kids.
Marc:Five?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like, how old's the oldest one?
Guest:15.
Marc:That's insane.
Marc:But, I mean, why so many?
Marc:I think I asked Jim that.
Marc:It's not a religious thing.
Marc:You just like them?
Guest:I just kind of like them.
Guest:I mean, it was just one of those things where I got pregnant really...
Guest:A lot, you know.
Marc:Clearly, but I mean, but you have choices.
Guest:Yeah, but I mean, my choice was baby.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I chose baby.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so, you know, we just, and I think that culturally, I came from nine, a family, nine kids.
Guest:Jim came from a family with six kids.
Guest:So to us, five is kind of a small family.
Marc:Yeah, or it's manageable anyway.
Guest:It's manageable, yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, that's, that's, I guess that's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I think that we probably also tried to recreate the fun and chaos of our childhoods too, in a way.
Marc:And did you?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And then some.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because we're in Manhattan.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's a crazy place to raise kids.
Marc:It's not easy.
Marc:No.
Marc:I think the easiest thing must be that you don't have to drive 45 minutes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, to get someplace.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:But when we were living in L.A., I have to say being a pair of multiple children was easier because I would just take the elevator.
Guest:I was living in an apartment complex with a parking garage underneath.
Guest:And I would leave everything in the car.
Guest:And for me, that was amazing because in New York, you just schlep everything.
Marc:Oh, you got to have everything with you all the time.
Marc:You can't leave anything anywhere.
Guest:And so just like taking the kids in the elevator and just putting everyone in the car and just going to like Griffith Park and riding ponies.
Guest:And it was so much easier than living in New York.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So living in L.A.
Marc:So, you know, all the kids are doing good.
Marc:Everybody's doing good.
Marc:Jim's OK.
Yes.
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:I mean, he's busy.
Guest:He's touring and doing these press things all the time, so it's hard.
Guest:He works really hard.
Marc:I know, I know, yeah.
Guest:He talks about being lazy and whatever, that's his thing, but I think he wants to be lazy, but he's not...
Marc:I think maybe at another time.
Marc:I don't think he was probably ever lazy.
Marc:I think he's just always hard on himself.
Marc:So, like, whatever he assumes lazy is probably isn't real.
Marc:But I remember, like, maybe he was more in his head back in the day, but he was always pretty hard on himself, it seems.
Guest:Oh, yeah, he's hard on himself.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:But, you know, I guess that, you know, worked for him.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:No, I have a lot of respect for Jim.
Marc:So what year did you get married?
Guest:2003.
Guest:2003.
Marc:So you were hanging out for a while.
Marc:And then Jim starts to get huge as a comic.
Guest:In 2006.
Marc:Was it that long?
Guest:Because it went from, that was Hot Pockets.
Marc:That was 2006.
Guest:Well, we filmed...
Guest:King Baby, first theater, you know, big hour.
Guest:Yeah, the first special, yeah.
Guest:In 2005.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:In, you know, late 2005.
Guest:And then once that went out in 2006.
Guest:Was that HBO?
Guest:It was Comedy Central.
Marc:Comedy Central.
Guest:And then he went to theaters.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that was the year that went from improvs.
Marc:Right.
Guest:To theaters.
Marc:2006.
Guest:2006.
Marc:And the Hot Pockets bit was on King Baby?
Guest:Yes, it was.
Marc:And then it took him a decade to get that off his back.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And still.
Marc:Still the Hot Pocket guy.
Guest:Still, yeah, can't get rid of it.
Guest:It's a blessing and a curse.
Marc:Well, he's got other food items.
Marc:Now there's a bacon chunk and there's, you know.
Guest:Well, bacon chunk was in the next special.
Guest:Like, as a matter of fact, the last, like, three specials, I've had, like, no food in it.
Guest:But he's still the food guy, you know.
Marc:But is that a conscious decision you two make?
Guest:I think that it's one that he made.
Guest:So he was like, because it was like, how many more the food comics here did he need?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:He could have kept going with it.
Marc:So, okay.
Marc:So you get married.
Marc:You start having children.
Marc:He's getting big as a comic.
Marc:So the second show, the one that ended up on TV land.
Guest:That was later.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was like in 2013.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you've helped Jim write and create all his specials.
Guest:Since King Baby, I started producing all his specials.
Marc:Through your company, through Jim?
Guest:Through my mutual company with Jim.
Guest:Right, with Jim, right.
Guest:And directing and writing.
Marc:What does that entail, the production, when you produce it?
Marc:So that means like if... Okay, so you act as the production entity.
Marc:You get the money from whoever the network is or whoever.
Marc:You don't self-produce, or do you?
Guest:Well, yeah, that's correct.
Guest:Will, you work with a production company and let's say someone like, let's just say Netflix buys the special and then you get the money or you put up the money and then you get the money.
Guest:And so you get the production company, you design it, you decide what outfit, what opening, and then you decide what material stays and goes.
Guest:And it was pretty much from
Guest:Soup to Nuts.
Guest:I'm in edit.
Guest:I'm choosing shots.
Marc:Which one did you direct?
Guest:I've directed the last three of them.
Marc:The last three specials?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:On Netflix?
Guest:The last one was on Amazon Prime.
Guest:The one before that was a Comedy Dynamics, like a multi-platform release.
Guest:Then the one before that, Cinco, was on Netflix.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Why would you change from Netflix?
Guest:This is really Jim's wheelhouse, but I will tell you my perspective.
Guest:Netflix, if Jim has five specials on Netflix, why would a new special on Netflix be special?
Guest:Because then you search Jim Gaffigan and you've got all these choices.
Guest:So we have so many specialists right now that I have to consciously make sure that the backgrounds look vastly different.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because or else someone will look at it and be like, oh, I saw that one.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:And it might be a new hour.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So the comedy dynamics thing was just a way to like get it everywhere.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we had five on Netflix.
Guest:So the sixth one was comedy dynamics.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So it's on iTunes.
Marc:So wherever, you know, streaming.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And then this last one, Noble Ape.
Guest:was the first ever comedy special that Amazon produced.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So rather than just making it somewhere else and putting it on Amazon, like Amazon as a company was like, we want to produce this special.
Marc:So, okay, and then you're doing the TV show with Adam Goldberg and some other people based on your life in New York.
Guest:Yes, Michael Ian Black.
Marc:And this is when you're doing everything.
Marc:You're writing it with him.
Marc:You're producing it.
Guest:Executive producer.
Marc:You're directing some.
Guest:And directing.
Guest:And got in the DGA.
Marc:You got in the DGA, yeah.
Guest:It was the most...
Guest:balanced form of collaboration because when I'm doing production for Jim, it's him.
Guest:And I'm in the background.
Guest:Of course, I'm still in the background, but it was like I wrote a character called Jeannie Gaffigan from my perspective.
Marc:This is your life.
Marc:You guys are co-writing something.
Marc:You're the second lead in this.
Guest:I'm the second lead in this, my character.
Guest:And I'm also...
Guest:You know, story editor.
Guest:It was a very, very intense show because it was all shot in New York, which is much harder.
Guest:And locations, very difficult.
Guest:Design.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was a very challenging show.
Guest:We chose to do everything like a movie.
Guest:So let's say we went to shoot a scene at Cats' Deli.
Guest:We wouldn't go to a studio and pretend it was Cats' Deli.
Guest:It's like we had to go to Cats' Deli at 4 in the morning, light it like it was day.
Marc:Well, they're only closed for like two hours.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah, we'd have to buy out breakfast.
Guest:It was a very grueling schedule.
Marc:Now, what happened to that show?
Guest:Well, at the renewal where season three was, we were waiting to renew it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jim and I were both, Jim was resistant to having somebody kind of take over the writing.
Guest:And I was like, I can't maintain the five kids.
Guest:My kids are getting older.
Guest:I'm working 80 hours a week on this show.
Guest:I can't keep up the schedule.
Yeah.
Guest:So I need to kind of get someone else to do the writing and just be one of those executive verses that comes in and opens the door and is like, everything good, see you later.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Take a look at the scripts maybe.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But don't.
Guest:You know, obviously it's my name's on it and everything.
Guest:But I think that Jim was just really resistant to opening up our lifestyle.
Guest:It was a very personal show.
Guest:And I think that as many talented people as we know, to write my voice, to write his voice, it was a really hard decision.
Guest:But ultimately, we had to call the network and say, listen...
Guest:We want to end the show now.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And it was kind of strange to hear myself say that because it was like one of the most creatively fulfilling things I've ever done.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But there became kind of a choice like, do I want to do 10 seasons of an amazing show and not know my kids at all?
Guest:Or do I want to do two really great seasons and have fantastic kids that I know?
Marc:And you had a good working relationship with everybody?
Guest:On the show?
Marc:Yeah, in general.
Guest:As far as I know.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I don't know what was said behind closed doors, but to me it was like a family, another family.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I adored everyone on that show.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Marc:It's good to feel that way about people you work with.
Marc:Right?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it's great.
Guest:I do want to say, though, that I was so busy on that show that I never went to the doctor.
Guest:The last episode was like on location.
Guest:I was directing.
Guest:It was in Long Island.
Guest:There was like 52 scenes in it.
Guest:I sprained my foot.
Guest:I didn't go to the doctor.
Guest:I got some crutches out of the props department and just hobbled around.
Guest:So when right after that,
Guest:I was discovered to have this brain tumor.
Guest:I realized that had I done season three, I would have dropped dead on the set.
Marc:That's terrible.
Marc:I'm glad you didn't.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:How do you start to know that there's something wrong?
Guest:Well, I lost a hearing in one of my ears.
Marc:Just out of nowhere?
Guest:Out of nowhere.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:And I was on a plane from...
Guest:London, Jim was doing a tour, and we took the kids, and I put my headphones on on the plane, and I thought one of them was dead.
Guest:Like, it was just no sound.
Guest:Like, that, like, noise-canceling headphones, you can tell when one doesn't work.
Guest:So...
Guest:i switched the headphones around and i realized it wasn't the headphones it was my ear and i was kind of like well i guess i can't hear under that ear i'm getting old you know i just dismissed it yeah i just dismissed it so literally two months later i was at uh you didn't go to the doctor no didn't go to the doctor i thought about it but then got busy didn't go did the hearing come back no that's insane
Guest:no i know it was like yeah mark i am embarrassed now to talk about it but this is what the book is about just completely being so overwhelmed with taking care of other people that you've neglect yourself you don't they say put the oxygen mask on first sure yeah i mean i wasn't putting the oxygen mask on so i was at a visit with my kids at the at the pediatrician and
Guest:And the doctor was speaking to me and I turned my head and she goes, what's wrong with your ear?
Guest:And I'm like, oh, I can't hear out of it anymore.
Guest:She's like, yeah, that's not good.
Guest:Why wouldn't you come to the doctor?
Guest:And I was like, I was going to.
Guest:She wrote me a referral, went to an ENT.
Guest:He couldn't see anything wrong.
Guest:Got an MRI, came out, found out I had three days to live or something.
Guest:They saw this huge brain tumor.
Guest:blacking on my brain stem.
Marc:Were you by yourself when you went for the MRI?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I was just another thing on my to-do list.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:Drop off kids, go to MRI, get milk.
Marc:And what happens when you get the results?
Guest:Well, I just knew something was wrong, but they didn't tell me what it was.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So then I went through kind of a mystery thriller section of the book where I'm like, what is going on?
Guest:And all the things I had to do to find out in like a two-day period of time.
Marc:Oh, right, because the technician can't tell you.
Guest:They can't tell you, and my doctor wasn't there.
Guest:It was like some random, you know, he prescribed me go to a radiology center.
Marc:So you're freaking out for two days before you can see your doctor?
Guest:Well, the same day, because I could tell when the radiologist, I mean, I was one look on his face when I went in the tube and another look on the face when I went out of the tube, and they can't say anything, but I knew.
Guest:I knew something was really wrong.
Guest:But for what I knew, they were checking my ears.
Guest:So I thought maybe I have like a, you know, audio neuroma or something in there.
Guest:Never did I imagine.
Guest:So then there was a lot of phone calls.
Guest:Jim got involved where we're calling the doctor.
Marc:Just so you can get the results.
Guest:And then I eventually called my friend who lives in Milwaukee, who's a neurologist who I grew up with.
Guest:And I'm like, look, man, I can't get anyone on the phone.
Guest:My ENT said there's a mass in my brain and he has to refer me to another doctor to like, but I didn't see the scan.
Guest:I don't know what.
Guest:So he was like, get the scan, FedEx it to me at my hospital, because you can't read these things on your computer.
Guest:Then Jim and I just carried on business as usual that night.
Marc:So you sent it to your friend?
Guest:I sent it to the friend.
Guest:In the morning, he texted me.
Guest:He said, you need to get to the OR.
Guest:He's like, I don't have a neurosurgeon.
Guest:He's like, go to the emergency room at the best neurosurgery hospital in New York today.
Guest:and he texted me a picture of my skull with what appeared to be a pair lodged in my- That picture's in the book.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh my God, so that day, he's like- The next day after the MRI.
Marc:And did you?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I got in a cab with Jim and went to Mount Sinai Hospital.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A physician's assistant from the neurosurgery at Mount Sinai called me and said, where do you live?
Guest:And I said, I'm a block away from the ER at Mount Sinai.
Guest:And she said, come upstairs to 8 West.
Guest:I have a neurosurgeon here who's delayed in surgery that can look at your scan because I was in a panic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But this doesn't happen.
Guest:You don't just walk into a top chief of neurosurgery office.
Guest:And it wasn't like I was like, oh, I got a comedian husband.
Guest:They didn't know my name, nothing.
Guest:It was just like this series of miracles.
Guest:In the book, I call it like when Moses parted the Red Sea.
Guest:I just walked right in.
Guest:It was just a series of coincidences that to me are a miracle.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:walk into the chief neurosurgery office.
Guest:He puts in my scan.
Guest:He's like, yep, you got a problem here.
Guest:He's like, I would recommend that you get scanned tomorrow.
Guest:It was Good Friday.
Guest:I remember that because I'm Catholic.
Guest:And it was, that's a big day.
Guest:So he's like, you get scanned all day.
Guest:We're going to take lots of pictures of your brain, head and neck MRIs, CT scans, all this stuff.
Guest:And we're going to put together a virtual reality of your brain and
Guest:And then I want you in the hospital on Monday.
Guest:So you have the weekend off to spend with your family.
Guest:I mean, it was like emergency brain surgery.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So was it like, you know, you have the weekend off to spend with your family and this might be it?
Marc:Did you have that feeling?
Guest:I did.
Guest:You did.
Guest:He told me, you're not going to die.
Guest:But it's like, this is right.
Guest:Your facial nerve is in that.
Guest:He was showing me on the screen.
Guest:He's like, this is breathing, swallowing, movement.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:I mean, I just sign a lot of like in case of this, in case of that, in case of that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Without thinking about it.
Marc:And is Jim freaking out or was he?
Guest:Yeah, he was freaking out.
Guest:He has friends that have like lost people, like wives.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he was calling those people.
Yeah.
Guest:before he lost me, you know, so I was like.
Marc:He's getting prepared for the emotional.
Guest:I mean, he was like, he did not, you know, he knew it was big.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then we had this very normal weekend.
Guest:With the kids.
Guest:With the kids, and I told very little people.
Guest:Very few people about the thing?
Guest:I told my mom and dad.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:very close friends.
Guest:The schools, you know, I wasn't going to be able to be coming into the schools.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And God, you know, told him.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then...
Marc:How do you respond?
Guest:Pretty well.
Guest:He took it pretty well.
Guest:So Monday I went to the hospital.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They tried to do a procedure to embolize the tumor, which is sealing the blood vessel so it doesn't- Grow anymore.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, bleed too during-
Guest:Oh, during surgery.
Guest:Yeah, it's not going to grow because they're going to take it out.
Guest:So they just want it not to bleed because there's venous.
Guest:It's like there's blood feeding.
Marc:It's its own body.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a monster.
Guest:It's a monster.
Guest:It was like speaking to me, being like, hey, hey, hey, I'm going to kill you.
Guest:And I'd be like, shut up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I started to feel it after I saw it.
Guest:I'm sure it was psychological, but I could feel it back there, this menacing.
Guest:But it was deep, so I couldn't really feel it.
Guest:All of a sudden, I went from not feeling anything...
Guest:to feeling a lot and connecting you know i have one of those moments like in the usual suspects at the end where all the pictures like get connected oh right yeah so i'm like hearing loss headaches dizziness things i had compartmentalized and brushed off as for years busy i've had too many babies i'm getting old and
Marc:For years, probably.
Guest:Probably 10.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:But I mean, slowly.
Marc:Were they able to say that, though?
Marc:Could they tell you how long it had been there when it was born?
Guest:They told me it could have been there for 10 years because of how high-functioning I was.
Guest:And the slower growing a tumor, the more your brain finds ways...
Guest:To build around it.
Guest:To build around it.
Guest:So like for instance, that's why they were like, we don't think you have brain cancer because you might have brain cancer, but it's not like this tumor isn't from brain cancer.
Guest:There might be cancerous elements to the tumor, but cancer grows really rapidly.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's why people like find out they have cancer and then they pass.
Marc:This was just a specific thing.
Guest:It was benign.
Guest:But I didn't know that until like three weeks after the surgery.
Guest:But this is why he said, because of course the first thing I said was, is it cancer?
Guest:I mean, I never heard brain tumor without cancer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now I do.
Guest:Now I know.
Guest:Now I'm like a medical student.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But the reason why I was so high functioning would lend the doctor to believe that it was insidiously growing for a very long time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And cancer would not grow that way.
Guest:Cancer would blow up.
Guest:And take over your body.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would drop, you know, all the things that it was touching would have been, you know, they describe it like an elephant on a clothesline.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If you put an elephant on a clothesline, it's going to break.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But if you slowly keep building all these little things on the clothesline until it gets so heavy, eventually you can put an elephant on it and it's not going to break.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:So they removed it in like a 10-hour surgery.
Oh, man.
Guest:And very successful surgery where I woke up and I realized that I had had brain surgery and that I was cognizant.
Guest:I couldn't move, but I had my brain.
Marc:Really?
Marc:So you were paralyzed?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I think it was the drugs.
Guest:But I couldn't move.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I wasn't.
Guest:I'll remember is that when I woke up from the surgery, I looked around and I had thoughts.
Guest:And I knew that I was not brain damaged.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:That was one of the things.
Marc:You had consciousness.
Guest:Consciousness.
Guest:I think, therefore, I am.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And I had this big moment where I was like, oh, my God, I'm me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because going in, you're like, I might never have a memory again.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:So it was amazing.
Guest:And everyone was happy.
Guest:I could tell everyone was like, the doctor was happy.
Guest:Everyone was happy.
Guest:And then I- And the whole family was there?
Guest:No, no kids.
Guest:It was in the ICU.
Guest:So it was you and Jim?
Guest:So Jim was there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jim was there with my doctors, happy.
Yeah.
Guest:Then I became unconscious again.
Guest:I mean, I was kind of like waking up.
Guest:And then when I woke up, again, I had tubes on my throat.
Guest:I was on, you know, I was intubated.
Guest:Something had gone very wrong.
Guest:Really?
Guest:So what I found out was because of my compromised swallowing,
Guest:When they took the breathing tube out.
Marc:From the brain, from the damage from the tumor.
Guest:Yes, the compromised nerves.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:My speech and swallow devices were all intertwined and mixed up because I had this huge thing that was gone.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:So it all of a sudden had nerves that weren't in place.
Guest:They know what to do, right.
Guest:And so I apparently aspirated.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:During the night and got a double lung strep pneumonia and got very close to death from that.
Guest:But all I knew was that everything was great.
Guest:And then all of a sudden, like I couldn't, you know, I didn't really understand what was going on because I couldn't.
Guest:No one told me.
Guest:Jim claims everyone's like, yeah, you have double lung strep pneumonia, by the way, that's why you're.
Guest:But I was like, what is happening?
Guest:Like, why am I on all these tubes and everyone's running around and worried and scared and.
Guest:It was very chaotic.
Guest:And so a two-week period followed that with no eating, very little breathing on my own.
Marc:And you were conscious?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Wide awake.
Guest:Ugh.
Guest:Wide awake.
Guest:And I just got furious.
Guest:I was furious.
Guest:I was like, what is happening?
Guest:Why can't I leave?
Guest:Ugh.
Guest:And that's when I really discovered the power of meditative prayer because I was in such a state because I was mentally 100% with it.
Guest:But physically, I couldn't.
Guest:I was so thirsty.
Guest:I was so hungry.
Guest:I couldn't talk.
Guest:I saw a lot of my family was there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just wanted to leave and see my kids.
Guest:I couldn't see my kids.
Guest:It was that period.
Guest:I mean, the brain surgery wasn't even like the big deal.
Guest:It was that recovery.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Almost dying from the pneumonia and you're not being able to swallow.
Guest:And the food tube.
Guest:It was a lot.
Marc:So what about meditative prayer?
Guest:Well, it took me out of my body.
Marc:Now, were you a prayer before?
Guest:Not like this, but I mean, I always believed in God.
Guest:Jim describes me as a Shiite Catholic.
Guest:I'm always like, hey, God, what should I do about this situation?
Guest:Or thank God for this whatever.
Marc:So you guys are pretty dug into your faith, the two of you.
Guest:I mean, Jim kind of, I mean, you'd have to talk to him about that, but like he goes along with it.
Guest:He's just not as effervescent about it.
Guest:But you do the church thing too?
Guest:We do the church thing for sure.
Guest:We do the church thing and we're very, you know, about like social justice and our kids are, you know, love thy neighbor and there's no weirdness.
Guest:There's no weird like exclusiveness about us.
Guest:Is there hell?
Yeah.
Guest:Yes, absolutely.
Guest:I saw it.
Guest:I didn't go in it, but I got really close to it.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like in a boat in my vision.
Marc:This is when you were sick?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:When I was in the ICU, when I was all messed up on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I actually don't talk about this in the book at all because, you know, obviously I want people to buy it.
Guest:So I'm going to say it on your podcast.
Guest:Good.
Guest:that I was in a boat.
Guest:It's probably based on literature and Dante and all this stuff.
Guest:But it was really real.
Guest:All I could see was darkness and this rocky cliff.
Guest:And as I got closer and closer, I started to feel terrified.
Guest:And all over the cliff were like thorns and bramble and like, you know, like scratches, scratches.
Guest:And I remember thinking, oh, that's hell.
Guest:And I wonder if I'm headed right for it.
Guest:But it was terrifying.
Guest:I was like, this is like death.
Guest:This is like, I felt like I was getting close to death and it was terrifying.
Marc:That seems more likely because why would you assume you would go to hell?
Guest:I didn't assume I was going to hell, but I think that it was part of the journey.
Marc:Oh, right.
Guest:Because what I chose to do at that point was like, look to the light, right?
Guest:I was like, I'm looking to the light and I'm going to talk to God and I'm going to say, look, if this is it for me,
Guest:i want to be with you i don't want to be at this other place and as i did that i started to come out of it and i started to be really hopeful and joyful about what i could do in this life and i started kind of bargaining with god and i was like look i really feel like there's more for me to do here yeah and
Guest:and I really felt like God spoke to me and said, yeah, you're going to live, but you've got to get your shit together because your priorities are messed up.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And you're doing all these things to be a good mother, quitting your show and all this stuff, but you're giving them more quantity, and you're giving your husband more quantity, but your quality time, it's not there.
Guest:You're doing things...
Guest:to be a good wife, to be a good mother.
Marc:For other people.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Where is it coming from?
Guest:Where is it coming from?
Guest:Is it my ego?
Guest:It was kind of heavy.
Guest:And it was like, what about the moments?
Guest:What moments are you having with people?
Guest:Where's the connection?
Guest:Like, are you going, look, to be a good mother, I have to make sure my kid practices their piano and does their homework and that I balance my life and all this stuff.
Guest:But conceptually, it was working.
Guest:But spiritually, there was like, I wasn't taking the time to just stop and go, you know, just tell me about your day.
Guest:Forget about all this stuff.
Marc:Let me just let the dishes pile up.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So God said you were being, you were missing life and you were being, trying too hard or being selfish in some way.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Trying too hard to win.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:At all those things.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And so what does meditative prayer look like?
Guest:Okay, so meditative prayer.
Guest:When I was in, I chose to do it in the form of the Catholic rosary because that's what I know.
Marc:So someone instructed you on this?
Guest:I just know it because I grew up Catholic.
Marc:Well, I know the rosary, but meditative prayer is a Catholic thing?
Guest:No, it's an everything thing.
Guest:But the tool I used for meditative prayer was the Catholic rosary because that's my thing.
Guest:I'm not going to say that it's for everyone, but it worked for me.
Marc:What, moving the beads?
Guest:It's a series of prayers on the beads.
Guest:I obviously couldn't have any beads in the MRI, but I could picture them.
Guest:And what it did was it just, it's like a mantra.
Guest:It's like a letting go and a repetitive prayer or chant that takes you out of your pain and
Guest:And you're suffering and puts you into a higher, more mystical level.
Guest:And so, look, I mean, I didn't get it either before I went through this.
Guest:But when I would be in that tube, it's very claustrophobic.
Guest:And it bangs.
Guest:It's terrifying.
Guest:Gang, gang, gang, gang, gang, gang, gang, gang.
Guest:For like three hours.
Guest:And when I had the intubation, it breathes for you.
Guest:The breathing tube?
Guest:The breathing tube.
Guest:So you don't feel like you would get in the air.
Guest:Because if you feel, you know how when you're in a small space, you gasp.
Marc:Yeah, you're already panicky.
Guest:You can't breathe against that thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So it's really horrible.
Yeah.
Guest:So when I was in that tube, I needed to go out of that tube because I felt like I was going to lose my mind.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then.
Marc:Oh, that's where you learned it.
Guest:What I knew was the rosary.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And I just started saying the rosary and I went somewhere else.
Marc:I do that with the serenity prayer if I can't sleep.
Guest:The serenity prayer is a perfect example.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And I'm not even a believer, but I do the repetitions.
Guest:But if you do the serenity prayer, then you're acknowledging that there's a higher power, whether it's universal power of love.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because you can't do it all yourself.
Marc:Right.
Marc:No, that's right.
Marc:I mean, yeah, you're acknowledging that you can't do it all yourself and that you shouldn't think that you can.
Guest:And maybe your higher power is that all the other people in the program or whatever.
Marc:Or just sort of like that it just lets you off the hook with a certain amount of faith.
Marc:I don't even know if I have to define the higher power, but it does let you off the hook.
Guest:People get skipped out about that.
Guest:I mean, you know what?
Guest:My friend, John, who saved my life,
Guest:The neurologist?
Guest:The neurologist, close childhood friend, total atheist.
Guest:He helped me with my faith, ironically, more than, I mean, I'm very happy for all the priests, nuns, rabbis, everyone who came to my side.
Guest:But here, one of my friends who's a complete atheist.
Marc:You had a rabbi at your side?
Guest:Listen, we have a very diverse set of friends.
Guest:I mean, I had my babies at home, okay?
Guest:I'm a home birth person.
Guest:So I had my boys at home, and my boys...
Guest:You don't need to be circumcised.
Guest:And usually when you have a baby in the hospital, they circumcise the baby in the hospital.
Guest:So I called my pediatrician and I'm like, look, I'm having a boy.
Guest:And he's a home birth guy too, my pediatrician.
Guest:And I was like, what do I do?
Guest:And he's like, well, you get a moil.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, do you know any Moyle?
Guest:He's like, I absolutely do.
Guest:He's Jewish, right?
Guest:So I introduced this Moyle who is a female pediatrician, Moyle, rabbi, lesbian.
Marc:So your kid had a bris.
Guest:So she said, I'm only going to do a bris.
Guest:So we have to do a naming ceremony.
Guest:She goes, I know you're not Jewish.
Guest:But she's like, invite your priest, whatever.
Guest:So Jim and I had three brisses at our home.
Guest:Very traditional Jewish brisses.
Guest:Three Catholic Jewish brisses.
Guest:With a Catholic priest and a rabbi.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:So you have these relationships.
Guest:We have these relationships.
Guest:These spiritual advisors.
Guest:My grandmother on my father's side is Jewish.
Guest:I'm from a mixed background.
Guest:I am very open to multi-interfaith.
Guest:I have friends who are from atheists to devout Catholics.
Marc:So how did the neurologist help your faith?
Guest:He basically, I called him, because we so-called people of faith have very little faith when it comes to the, and I'm speaking for myself and everyone else, but when it comes to the actual moment of life and death.
Guest:So we can all be like, oh, heaven, hell, you want to get into heaven.
Guest:But then when you're like actually like on the verge of death, you're like, but I don't want to go to heaven.
Guest:I don't want to go to heaven.
Guest:I don't want to die because I really don't believe.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:No, I mean, I'm just saying like why if you believe that heaven is this, you know, nirvana that you're working your life to achieve.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Why would you be afraid to die at all?
Guest:So it's like it's the challenge is it at the end.
Marc:Well, the transition is a little, you know, it's heavy.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, the transition's heavy, but let's be honest.
Guest:We're all like, yay, heaven, unless we're going to die.
Guest:Then we're like, well, maybe not now.
Guest:Yeah, I don't want to.
Guest:I'm not ready.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So the night before my surgery, I called him and I said, I think I'm having a stroke.
Guest:I'm just like, my whole body's tingling.
Guest:I'm like, I know I'm going to drop dead right before the surgery.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So after I got all these blessings and faith things and whatever, I turned to my scientist friend and I was like, why did I call him?
Guest:And he told me, Jeannie, you have faith.
Guest:You have your family.
Guest:You're not going to have a stroke.
Guest:You got this far.
Guest:And he gave me this pep talk.
Guest:And it was so generous of him.
Guest:Because here's this kid.
Guest:I mean, adult now, but we grew up together.
Guest:Right.
Guest:that would mock every step of the way.
Guest:The God thing, the angels.
Guest:He's funny.
Guest:So he'd be like, right, so an angel came in.
Guest:But even if I said, I changed my mind, he'd be like, there is no mind.
Guest:The mind is not a real thing.
Guest:It's that kind of stuff you do.
Guest:John Broderick, love him to death.
Guest:He gave me the most, he strengthened my faith.
Guest:Because he was like, don't forget what you believe.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You're forgetting what you believe.
Guest:And he gave me this very scientific analysis of me having a crisis of faith.
Guest:And he's the atheist.
Guest:So I thought that was really interesting.
Marc:Yeah, it's interesting.
Marc:An interesting type of empathy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And so you survived and you're doing well.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And the thing with your throat now, what's happening with that?
Guest:So basically, as you probably know, I had a tracheostomy and I had a feeding tube for a while.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So when the tracheostomy came out, my vocal cord, my left one was still paralyzed.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:So I started to get a series of treatments like steroid injections and things to make it kind of come back.
Guest:So at my two-year anniversary, which was like in May, they looked at my brain.
Guest:They said, look, you are pretty much recovered.
Guest:So you still are going to have a paralyzed vocal cord.
Guest:It's not going to come back.
Guest:But there's a surgery that you could do called a type 1 thyroplasty and a palatal adhesion.
Guest:I've gotten a few surgeries where they take the good vocal cord.
Guest:and put an implant in it and stick it to the bad vocal cord so they move together.
Guest:So that was the most recent surgery I had.
Guest:So what you hear now is temporary.
Guest:You'll see.
Guest:I'll see.
Guest:And I might have to have another surgery.
Guest:But this is like, I can't complain, Mark.
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, look at me.
Guest:I could have been... I mean, they were almost 100% sure that my facial nerve was gone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know how when people have a stroke and they... And I was like, fine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I already have a husband.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Too bad for him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, yeah, it's amazing.
Marc:It's definitely a lot to be grateful for.
Marc:And you're on a boat.
Marc:You saw the gate of hell.
Marc:You made some choices.
Marc:You almost died.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm not saying I was headed to hell, but I felt like it was... I get it, yeah.
Marc:I don't think you were.
Marc:And also, I can't imagine this sort of... Because I don't have a family like that, but just to be surrounded by people with that much love and that much concern and that much support, you must have really seen a lot of who those people were in a way you probably didn't anticipate or necessarily want to.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I saw a side of people, especially when I'm not talking and doing everything.
Guest:It was like a forced retreat from myself.
Marc:And you're completely vulnerable and fragile, like totally opposite of how you exist in the world.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And yet people showed up for you.
Marc:There probably must have been a learning curve on that.
Guest:It was amazing because I also had this whole secretism, which was momism.
Guest:So I had this kind of like, and I didn't know I had it.
Guest:It's where I kind of was like, well, if you're not a mom, you're not going to get it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And honestly, I was faced with my momism in the hospital because the people, the single people actually could show up more.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because they'd never kid at home.
Guest:And I saw, because I have a lot of siblings, and I saw the siblings that I had thought, oh, they don't get it.
Guest:Like with my kid having siblings, we'd always like, oh, they do not get it.
Guest:They don't get how easy their life is.
Guest:There was a lot of that kind of stuff going on.
Guest:But when I saw my non-kid having siblings, the level of care that they were able to give me
Guest:It completely said, listen, I have the wrong idea here.
Guest:I'm so grateful.
Guest:I'm so grateful for the amount of caregiving you have.
Guest:And I feel bad that in the past I – and they're like, well, I didn't know you felt that way.
Guest:And I was like, well, I did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then Jim, although Jim is – look, when I started dating Jim in 2000, he was already 30.
Guest:He was already in his 30s, maybe 33.
Guest:I don't remember.
Guest:But he was a bachelor.
Guest:He had everything.
Guest:He didn't need anyone to take care of him.
Guest:But over the past almost 20 years, he's become very accustomed to having someone take care of everything.
Guest:He goes and does his thing, but I know the teacher's names.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I know where everyone goes.
Guest:I have the schedule done.
Guest:I know who's on the board of the building, co-op.
Guest:He doesn't know any of that stuff.
Right.
Guest:And so when I was taken out, I mean, I was like being wheeled into the OR being like, oh, my computer password is, you know, the fresh direct password.
Guest:I was like, there's just too much to like impart.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And as I was recovering, I realized that doing everything for people completely robs them of their ability to function.
Marc:It immobilizes them.
Yeah.
Guest:And so there were two things there.
Guest:But that's a control thing.
Guest:I was over controlling my life and my people and my kids.
Guest:And secondly, it showed me that they're just fine on their own.
Guest:They don't need.
Marc:That's the biggest fear, I think.
Guest:The Nazi boot camp that I was running.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, I think that's part of the maybe the existential thing you went through with your conversation with God, you know, is that your biggest fear is that you would be useless.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:If you didn't try to control everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there I was useless and I was like, everybody was OK.
Guest:Everyone was fine.
Guest:They were better.
Guest:And Jim, stuff came out of him that he never had before.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And things blossomed in my kids.
Guest:And I watched it from afar.
Guest:They didn't need me.
Guest:But they kind of did.
Marc:Well, of course they did.
Marc:But, you know, like what, though?
Marc:Like what did you notice?
Guest:Well, like I noticed that like Jim started learning all about the day-to-day stuff.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Out of necessity.
Guest:But I feel like in my recovery, he has a whole different level of appreciation for me.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And he probably enjoyed doing some of this stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also, he'd do things like when I couldn't do anything.
Guest:My son, Jack, was going to all these bar mitzvahs every weekend because everyone was turning 13.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my husband, I'm bad at tying ties, but I would do it because he wasn't home, right?
Guest:And then he would be like, when he does something better than me, he like brags about it.
Guest:He's like, who ties a better tie?
Guest:So there was a lot of like this kind of like fun competition of who made eggs better.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was a different level of our relationship because before he was not doing that stuff.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:So it reconnected, it connected him as a father.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And when for you, like, I know that I didn't, there's in the book, I mean, how, how is outside of surviving, you know, what are the sort of takeaways, you know, from, you know, how are you, how are you living your life differently now?
Guest:I'm just not caring so much about the,
Guest:little things.
Guest:I think that I am a person who naturally sweats small stuff.
Guest:I didn't change my entire personality.
Guest:I still sweat small stuff.
Guest:I still get irritated by this and that.
Guest:But I have a different level of awareness that it's small stuff.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:If you're immersed in it, you can be like, this isn't that important.
Marc:I know I'm who I am, but it doesn't have to ruin my day.
Guest:And I see the big picture.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:So there's a couple of things.
Guest:There's a story that kind of illustrates this.
Guest:At one point, someone left the window open in our apartment and a dirty squirrel got into my apartment and just started running amok.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went crazy.
Guest:This is pre-brain tumor.
Guest:And I was like, oh my God, I had all this stuff to do and there's a squirrel and it's a crisis and I was calling all these discriminators.
Marc:Rabies and who knows what.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Running around like, you know, using the toilet all over my, I was imagining it would disappear.
Guest:Where was it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was like this awful thing.
Guest:And I had to cancel appointments.
Guest:And I was like, I can't leave.
Guest:Then no exterminator would come over.
Guest:Nobody cared.
Guest:I was so, you know, it was just this awful thing where I was like, where's the squirrel?
Guest:Who's going to kill this squirrel?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, and then the kids were like, don't kill the squirrel.
Guest:I'm like, where's the squirrel?
Guest:So anyway, eventually the squirrel shows its head.
Guest:All the kids are like, the squirrel.
Guest:Jim gets an empty Amazon box.
Guest:Everyone always has an empty Amazon box in their house.
Guest:And we all chase the squirrel into a bathroom.
Guest:And we corner the squirrel.
Guest:And Jim boxes the squirrel, captures the squirrel, holds it up.
Guest:We all run out in front of the building, go down the elevator.
Guest:Oh, no, we went down the stairs.
Yeah.
Guest:And we opened the box and set the squirrel or chipmunk or whatever it was out into the streets of New York City into the wild where it was probably run over by a truck like two seconds later.
Guest:And all the kids are like, yay!
Guest:And we're like, the squirrel.
Guest:So now I look at these irritating moments as like the squirrel story.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At the time, I was sweating the disgusting squirrel in the house, but now it's this fantastic story that's like part of this bigger picture that bonded us as a family, and it was so fun, and we all laugh about it.
Guest:And so in the moment when I'm like, you know, the teacher says that, you know, there's a life scare in the classroom or something, and I'm like...
Guest:Everyone bend down the hatches.
Guest:We're going to ruin our life now.
Guest:Now I'm kind of like, you know what?
Guest:This is going to be a funny story someday.
Guest:So that's my main.
Marc:So like, yeah, you're not freaking out over it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then there's gratitude.
Guest:Like I'm like so grateful.
Guest:at little moments.
Guest:When I swallow water, I'm like, oh my god, that feels so good.
Guest:I still am connected to that.
Guest:Now, I don't want to forget it, but right now it's kind of hard because it's still kind of hard for me to swallow.
Guest:But even when I saw you walk out today, because I was like,
Guest:calling Rob, and I was like, am I in the right place?
Guest:And I'm like, I see a hedge, and I don't know.
Guest:And then I saw you, and I was like, I just felt all this gratitude.
Guest:And I was like, it wasn't just gratitude for seeing you.
Guest:I was like, well, I got on a plane, did crash, got here.
Guest:It's a beautiful day.
Guest:There's Mark.
Guest:I was in New York this morning.
Guest:It's wild, right?
Guest:Yeah, and I was just so happy and grateful.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:And I don't know.
Guest:I think I was just kind of before like, OK.
Guest:To do list.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I get that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I understand that, that, you know, to take that pause and really realize, you know, hopefully you don't have to almost die to do that.
Marc:But but but there's times where like in the weird thing is, is if you have that personality, you know, you're going to do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You're going to freak out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it's really, you know, trying to nip it in the bud a little bit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like in the middle or it seems hard to do it before.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because you're automatically going to go.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And sometimes maybe it's necessary.
Marc:Maybe that's how you do it.
Guest:It's just me.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, and then but there's a point where you're like, well, I don't need this to be, you know, toxic.
Marc:You know, I don't need to ruin everyone's day.
Marc:You know, I don't need to make everybody crazy.
Marc:You know, I mean, I feel that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:And then so, I mean, the the the gratitude portion is just something that I write in the book.
Guest:Like, I don't want this is what I can say to you.
Guest:you don't have to get a brain tumor to realize this.
Guest:So I think that I was lucky to have the brain tumor because I don't know if I would have realized it.
Guest:So that's why I put that in the book because I want people not to have a brain tumor just every once in a while, even if you have to write yourself a little meaningful to-do list on the side.
Guest:Like just do a random act of kindness to someone today.
Guest:When you swallow your coffee,
Guest:Be like, wow, some people can't swallow coffee.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Thank you for this coffee.
Guest:You know, these little tiny moments, we don't have to do these grand changing the world gestures because all these little things will add up to changing the world.
Marc:We hope.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And how's the control freak stuff?
Guest:Oh, it's me.
Guest:But I, look, it's the same thing.
Guest:It's like, it's checking myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, how important is this?
Guest:Right.
Guest:How important is this?
Guest:Because, you know, you can't, it's not, you don't want anarchy.
Guest:I mean, some people do.
Guest:But I don't want anarchy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, my nine-year-old, just turned 10, she is into making slime.
Guest:You know, this is a big thing, right?
Guest:You make different kinds of slime with borax and glue and it's, you know, slime.
Marc:Yeah, I remember.
Guest:So now it's a designer.
Guest:It's all these beautiful colors.
Guest:You put marbles in it.
Guest:It's like this whole little science thing.
Guest:So my daughter is really into the slime thing.
Guest:And so I had a list of rules and regulations for slime in the house.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because they make it, if you put shaving cream in it, shaving cream makes it like this big fluffy slime.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And they love it.
Marc:I didn't know there was a whole slime subculture.
Guest:Oh, it's huge.
Guest:YouTube it.
Guest:It's huge.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:With like tweens and younger.
Yeah.
Guest:And I was a little bit like glue in my house.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I made a list of rules and regulations.
Guest:Slime.
Guest:About slime.
Guest:How to deal with it.
Guest:Because I was finding it in places that I'm like, ah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So...
Guest:But after the surgery, I realized that I never was like, can you teach me how to make the slime?
Guest:I never engaged with the slime.
Guest:I engaged with the control of the slime.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The control of the kid.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you learn how to make slime?
Guest:Through slime.
Guest:I did.
Guest:And it was really awesome.
Guest:And it actually, when you put your fingers in it, it actually does relieve tension.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:It's like a squeeze ball.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it makes a noise.
Guest:It's like...
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Well, good.
Guest:It's great.
Marc:So now you can both follow your slime rules together.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But yeah, there's still rules.
Guest:See, there's still rules.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Can I tell you something funny?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay, you know, remember before I was saying I have people in and out of my office?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I have a girl in my office who has an amazing crush on you.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Huge crush.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And freaked out when I was coming here.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What'd she say?
Guest:She was like, oh, my God, I can't believe that you're going to be in the same room.
Guest:I'm like, yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's sweet.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I'm going to give you another mug.
Marc:Maybe you can decide.
Guest:Oh, I'm not giving it to her, but I'll let her drink out of it when she's in my office.
Guest:But she calls you her hall pass.
Guest:I don't know if that's a thing.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I know what that is.
Marc:Do you know?
Marc:Was she married?
Guest:She's in a relationship.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So they've discussed it.
Guest:Apparently.
Guest:I guess you're the one.
Yeah.
Marc:I always wonder if those things are fantasy or that's real.
Guest:I mean, I don't know.
Guest:I would just think it's kind of like a cute relationship thing.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:But I imagine that if anyone actually acted on those, it would be problematic.
Guest:I bet it would.
Guest:I mean, just the human nature.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:But it's got to be fun and kind of sexy to talk about it.
Marc:I think it's a way to sort of talk about something that's
Marc:that doesn't provoke jealousy.
Marc:It's making something fun that usually you keep to yourself.
Guest:And it might amp up the romance a little bit in a way.
Marc:Yeah, I'll show that guy.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Mark Maron couldn't do that.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, it's great talking to you.
Marc:I'm glad that you're okay.
Guest:I am.
Marc:I'm excited about the book.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Godspeed.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Jeanne Gaffigan.
Guest:Thank you for having me.
Thank you.
Marc:Pretty amazing story.
Marc:Moving.
Marc:Heavy.
Marc:But, you know, she's got a great disposition about it.
Marc:The book, When Life Gives You Pears, The Healing Power of Family, Faith, and Funny People, comes out next Tuesday, October 1st.
Marc:Let's play some phase-shifting prog rock licks.
Marc:Not really prog.
Marc:You know, I'm not that good.
Marc:Just, if you're here, listen to it if you want.
Guest:.
.
.
guitar solo
Guest:Boomer lives!