Episode 1045 - Stephen Root

Episode 1045 • Released August 15, 2019 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:Lock the gates!

00:00:09Marc:All right, let's do this.

00:00:10Marc:How are you?

00:00:11Marc:What the fuckers?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck nicks?

00:00:13Marc:What the fuck nuts?

00:00:14Marc:What the fuck sticks?

00:00:15Marc:What's happening?

00:00:16Marc:I'm Mark Maron.

00:00:17Marc:This is my podcast.

00:00:18Marc:Welcome to it.

00:00:20Marc:How you doing?

00:00:21Marc:Are you OK?

00:00:22Marc:First of all, Stephen Root is on the show today.

00:00:25Marc:Stephen Root, the amazing character actor who you've seen in a million things.

00:00:30Marc:Too many.

00:00:31Marc:All the Coen Brothers movies, Office Space.

00:00:34Marc:He's he's on Barry this season.

00:00:36Marc:And he's a he's a fucking genius.

00:00:40Marc:And he came by to talk.

00:00:42Marc:That's happening.

00:00:44Marc:On another note, go to sort of trust dot com to find out where the movie is playing near you.

00:00:51Marc:It's still in a lot of theaters and on demand.

00:00:53Marc:That's the movie I did with Lynn Shelton, Michaela Watkins, Jillian Bell, John Bass, Toby Huss, Michaela Watkins.

00:01:02Marc:I say that already.

00:01:03Yeah.

00:01:04Marc:See, I don't know.

00:01:05Marc:Look, I don't know if I'm getting Zen or I'm getting dementia.

00:01:09Marc:I don't know.

00:01:10Marc:I do not know.

00:01:12Marc:Oh, my God.

00:01:14Marc:I just got back from New York.

00:01:15Marc:It was a long flight.

00:01:16Marc:I didn't sleep much.

00:01:17Marc:I was there doing press and eating things I shouldn't.

00:01:20Marc:That was on the agenda.

00:01:22Marc:I had a schedule.

00:01:23Marc:It said do Colbert.

00:01:25Marc:It said do AOL build.

00:01:28Marc:It said you're going to do some serious radio show.

00:01:31Marc:And then you're going to do a SAG panel with Betty and Allison.

00:01:36Marc:And you're also going to eat cheese, which you don't usually do.

00:01:39Marc:And don't be afraid to go ahead and stuff your face because you're away from home.

00:01:43Marc:And yeah, you brought your running shoes and your shorts and your running shirt, but don't bother going because it's sad in a hotel gym, isn't it?

00:01:50Marc:But maybe if you kind of, maybe if you went to a joined Equinox, no, you can't.

00:01:55Marc:See, maybe if you, yeah, that's where that was at.

00:01:59Marc:So that happened.

00:02:00Marc:I'm okay.

00:02:01Marc:I'm all right.

00:02:02Marc:How are you doing?

00:02:03Marc:You okay?

00:02:03Marc:Everybody good?

00:02:05Marc:Also, tour dates, please, Texas.

00:02:07Marc:I'll be in Dallas, Austin, and Houston, Texas next week, August 22nd through 24th.

00:02:12Marc:You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for my tour dates upcoming.

00:02:19Marc:Yeah, get tickets to the shows if you want to see them.

00:02:22Marc:That hour, 15, hour and a half is coming along nicely.

00:02:25Marc:It's bold.

00:02:26Marc:It's fresh.

00:02:27Marc:It's crass.

00:02:29Marc:It's...

00:02:30Marc:elevated and it's relieving i will say that i was in new york and spent time with betty and allison we had a very nice time i i did a panel uh screen actors guild panel where they showed a couple of episodes of the show and then you know we do a little q a and i actually i i don't really know how to advise but i i did have some advice and i'll share that with you in a minute

00:02:56Marc:But I did want to clear some stuff up.

00:03:00Marc:On Monday, I talked about the passing of the amazing David Berman of Silver Juice and poetry fame.

00:03:09Marc:I also, when I was in New York, I had a nice kind of hour and a half reflection.

00:03:15Marc:About David with Matt Sweeney, the guitar player who was much closer to him than I was.

00:03:21Marc:Like I said on Monday, I didn't really know him that well, but I was always sort of obsessed with him and his work.

00:03:28Marc:And that kind of fleshed things out for me a little bit, told me where David was at.

00:03:33Marc:over the last couple years of his life and that was interesting we had a moment of reflection about other people we've known who have died or ended their lives as you get older these things happen it's sad

00:03:48Marc:But the one thing I did want to clear up because I didn't know for sure, but now I know for sure.

00:03:54Marc:The poem I read, the reflections I had about him were all on the money for me and they come from my heart.

00:04:01Marc:But the poem I read that I attributed to David Berman apparently is not the right David Berman.

00:04:08Marc:And I want to straighten that out because one thing I've known, I've come to know over the years is that when you pass away, when your time is done here on this planet or the alive part, it's sort of astounding how quickly that news and that tragedy or that passing, however it's experienced, kind of fades into the past.

00:04:35Marc:And I think everybody wonders how they're gonna be remembered, if they're gonna be remembered, what happens in a practical sense after you pass away.

00:04:44Marc:I try not to think about it, I imagine most of us try not to think about it, but one thing that I would want to hope doesn't happen is that if I have some work out there that is ambiguous in terms of it being confused with someone else's work,

00:05:01Marc:or mislabeled as someone else's work or not separated, and it's put out into the world as yours, that would be a bummer.

00:05:11Marc:If I was dead and that happened to me, that would bum me out.

00:05:15Marc:So a couple of people emailed me, and apparently there was a blog post by the David Berman that passed away a week or so ago from the Silver Jews, from Purple Mountains, from poetry.

00:05:29Marc:And it was dated May 29th, 2009.

00:05:35Marc:This is a blog post by the late David Berman, who I talked about.

00:05:40Marc:And it just says FYI colon other David Berman's David Berman, the plastic surgeon who reattached John Bobbitt's penis.

00:05:47Marc:David Berman, mobster and co-owner of the Flamingo Hotel with Bugsy Siegel.

00:05:52Marc:David Berman.

00:05:53Marc:graphic designer, author of Do Good Design, a book on ethical standards for graphic designers.

00:05:59Marc:David Berman, the theoretical physicist.

00:06:02Marc:David Berman, television actor, CSI.

00:06:05Marc:David Berman, the Irish philosopher.

00:06:07Marc:David Berman, 1934 to 2017, was an attorney, an accomplished poet who is very different from my own poetry, is nevertheless often accredited to me.

00:06:18Marc:Three of his poems.

00:06:19Marc:And here is his book.

00:06:21Marc:All these are links to what I'm the things I'm reading off at this site.

00:06:25Marc:The first nine poems are by him.

00:06:27Marc:The next five by me.

00:06:30Marc:Far be it from me to stand in the way of another David Berman.

00:06:34Marc:And then there's David Berman with an H.

00:06:36Marc:the electronic music pioneer and minimalist composer.

00:06:40Marc:Here is his record unforeseen events.

00:06:42Marc:Now, the site that he's referring to is a site where I went because I couldn't find the book, his book right away, because it's in a pile with like a thousand books downstairs, which are, you know, in the middle of transition waiting to be reconfigured.

00:07:00Marc:On shelves when I get the new studio up and running, but the poem it's poem hunter dot com that has both David Berman's poetry lumped together.

00:07:11Marc:So to honor the David Berman, who I kind of knew and appreciated his work and know a lot of his work, I needed to.

00:07:20Marc:to make sure my heart was straight, read one of his actual poems.

00:07:25Marc:Now, I think the sentiment of the poem I read on Monday fits some of the things that David Berman, the guy I know, thinks about, but it was not his poem.

00:07:36Marc:And there was no reason to freak out.

00:07:38Marc:Many people made this mistake in remembering and blogging about Silver Jew's David Berman, Purple Mountain's David Berman.

00:07:46Marc:So this is a corrective.

00:07:49Marc:I'm trying to help this culturally.

00:07:51Marc:There's a cultural corrective.

00:07:52Marc:And you heard it from that blog post I read from David Berman, the guy who passed away a couple weeks ago.

00:08:00Marc:And this is a poem by that David Berman, the guy I was eulogizing and remembering on Monday.

00:08:09Marc:This is called Snow.

00:08:11Snow.

00:08:11Marc:Walking through a field with my little brother, Seth, I pointed to a place where kids had made angels in the snow.

00:08:18Marc:For some reason, I told him that a troop of angels had been shot and dissolved when they hit the ground.

00:08:25Marc:He asked who had shot them, and I said, a farmer.

00:08:28Marc:Then we were on the roof of the lake.

00:08:31Marc:The ice looked like a photograph of water.

00:08:34Marc:Why, he asked.

00:08:35Marc:Why did he shoot them?

00:08:37Marc:I didn't know where I was going with this.

00:08:39Marc:They were on his property, I said.

00:08:42Marc:When it's snowing, the outdoors seem like a room.

00:08:45Marc:Today, I traded hellos with my neighbor, our voices hung close in the new acoustics, a room with the walls blasted to shreds and falling.

00:08:55Marc:We returned to our shoveling, working side by side in silence.

00:08:59Marc:But why were they on his property?

00:09:01Marc:he asked.

00:09:02Marc:That is a poem by the late David Berman, who I talked about on Monday.

00:09:11Marc:And I'm glad I feel better now.

00:09:13Marc:I hope he does too, if there is that possibility that I wasn't one of the ones that misrepresented his poetry.

00:09:21Marc:Okay?

00:09:22Marc:All right?

00:09:22Marc:Okay.

00:09:24Marc:Folks, listen to me.

00:09:26Marc:Seriously.

00:09:28Marc:Having grown up in a house...

00:09:31Marc:Hi, Buster.

00:09:33Marc:Come here.

00:09:34Marc:Just let me finish this.

00:09:37Marc:What are you doing?

00:09:38Marc:Huh?

00:09:40Marc:What?

00:09:41Marc:All right, just can I finish doing this?

00:09:44Marc:Let me just finish this.

00:09:46Marc:What?

00:09:48Marc:Okay.

00:09:48Marc:Hey, okay.

00:09:51Marc:I grew up in a house with mental illness, and I need... Please try to take care of yourself.

00:09:59Marc:For everybody's sake.

00:10:00Marc:Please.

00:10:02Marc:And if you need help, get help.

00:10:03Marc:Please get help.

00:10:04Marc:There's help.

00:10:06Marc:Subject line, Finding Beauty in Darkness.

00:10:09Marc:Hey, Mark, I've listened since the beginning and I've struggled with depression and alcoholism for a long time, too.

00:10:15Marc:Your show has helped me through many times I didn't know if I would make it through.

00:10:18Marc:I was never a big fan of Silver Juice, just didn't connect at the time.

00:10:23Marc:But listening to your eulogy for David Berman, I went and listened to the new record of Purple Mountains.

00:10:29Marc:I was probably on death's door with two young kids at 40.

00:10:33Marc:I immediately locked in with the beautiful darkness.

00:10:35Marc:Thank you.

00:10:36Marc:It's perhaps oddly the thing I needed to make my way past my troubles or at least to reach out to those who care about me.

00:10:44Marc:Nothing profound.

00:10:45Marc:Just want to thank you.

00:10:46Marc:I'm still alive and my kids have their father.

00:10:49Marc:Thanks.

00:10:50Marc:Nathan.

00:10:51Marc:Nathan.

00:10:54Marc:Please get more help than a record.

00:10:56Marc:Okay?

00:10:58Marc:Please.

00:11:01Marc:oh my god i'm just concerned man i'm just kidding the the mind is a fucking who knows what's going on up there but if it's not but if it's like misfiring and and you know things are bleak and dark and they're happening inside your head not outside you try to try to get some help so look

00:11:26Marc:I don't know if I've told this story.

00:11:28Marc:I probably have.

00:11:29Marc:And I don't know.

00:11:30Marc:It's not really my place to help anybody in a conscious way.

00:11:34Marc:Like, you know, here's some here's some advice.

00:11:38Marc:Buster, Buster, Buster, stop it.

00:11:42Marc:Buster, what are you doing?

00:11:44Marc:What are you doing?

00:11:46Marc:What is that noise?

00:11:49Marc:Hey, what?

00:11:52Marc:What are you doing?

00:11:55Marc:Just hang out a minute.

00:11:57Marc:I'm working here.

00:11:59Marc:All right.

00:12:00Marc:So.

00:12:00Marc:Fucking cats, man.

00:12:04Marc:So I do this panel and it's it's actor specific.

00:12:10Marc:And you've you've heard me here learning how to act from people I talk to and doing whatever.

00:12:16Marc:I'm glad everyone likes glow.

00:12:18Marc:I'm very proud of it.

00:12:19Marc:I'm proud of all the work I've done lately.

00:12:21Marc:But, you know, my training is limited.

00:12:25Marc:But I've had a lot of experience over the years with almost acting and things.

00:12:31Marc:And the question was really if we if the three of us had any advice for the audition process.

00:12:38Marc:Now, Allison and Betty have done this a lot more than me.

00:12:42Marc:They've been on a lot of auditions.

00:12:44Marc:They get very, you know, sort of productive sort of ways of framing the audition process and what you're really in and how it works.

00:12:52Marc:And, you know, the feeling of auditioning for the same people over and over again, like casting agents and then sort of like making the most of the audition process, because that might be the only time you get to act that particular audience.

00:13:03Marc:And then I felt like I needed to say something.

00:13:07Marc:And I gave some advice that I gave to Conan like a million years ago.

00:13:12Marc:Like he was in maybe his first year of the show.

00:13:18Marc:And I told him my current mantra at the time, which was hide the hate.

00:13:22Marc:And I told that to the actors.

00:13:23Marc:I said, well, when you go into that room, you got to hide the hate.

00:13:27Marc:Got a big laugh.

00:13:28Marc:I think it's practical.

00:13:29Marc:I'm not saying that people are hateful.

00:13:31Marc:I'm just saying that, you know, when you're being judged and you're insecure and you're scared, why not resent with malice?

00:13:38Marc:Maybe not with malice or at least resent the people that have complete control of your future in that moment.

00:13:44Marc:How can you not?

00:13:46Marc:Maybe that's my problem.

00:13:49Marc:But I also shared this story and I must have shared it at some point.

00:13:54Marc:Early on in my career, you know, when I was just an angry comic that, you know, really, yeah, people didn't really know me.

00:14:02Marc:But, you know, I'd done I think I'd done a little TV, but I was intense and kind of shocking and jarring and.

00:14:09Marc:You know, not really defined, but people thought they could get a handle on me like agents and managers.

00:14:15Marc:So he's the cranky guy.

00:14:16Marc:No, I was I was really kind of unbridled, unformed, without boundary and furious.

00:14:25Marc:I don't know why.

00:14:26Marc:Oh, I do know why, but doesn't matter.

00:14:28Marc:It's it was a lot of things.

00:14:29Marc:I'm older now.

00:14:30Marc:I can't even remember how long ago this was.

00:14:32Marc:Got to be.

00:14:33Marc:I must have been in my early 20s, maybe mid 20s.

00:14:37Marc:Somehow or another, there was a show casting and it was like a behind the scenes.

00:14:42Marc:The show is to take place almost in a Larry Sanders kind of way behind the scenes at a at a music video network.

00:14:50Marc:And I played a director or producer.

00:14:52Marc:My part was so somehow or another, I'd made it to the network callback, which is really the the last stop before you get the gig.

00:15:02Marc:And it was it was heavy duty.

00:15:04Marc:It was at the network.

00:15:05Marc:You know, usually with those things, you go in for people from the network.

00:15:08Marc:You go in for casting people.

00:15:10Marc:But it's mostly producers, the writers like it's a big deal.

00:15:14Marc:It's like it's the last stop before you're like you got the gig.

00:15:17Marc:I saw some actors I recognized there, and I don't know, man.

00:15:21Marc:You know, I would freak out about fucking everything.

00:15:23Marc:This is what I realized in New York and what I'm realizing in my life and realizing with performing and just my job in general is I'm not that freaked out.

00:15:32Marc:You know, to go on Colbert, to go on those shows, I used to make myself crazy.

00:15:36Marc:I mean, I'm going over to Corden today, and I don't even know what I'm wearing.

00:15:41Marc:I'm not sure what I'm going to talk about, and I don't give a fuck because it's going to be fine.

00:15:48Marc:They'll tell me when I get there.

00:15:50Marc:But that took 30 years.

00:15:53Marc:Well, anyway, so this character, this monologue I got to do is like this guy losing his shit, basically, at another person.

00:16:02Marc:And I don't know where I was at, but I know that I had no control over my talent.

00:16:07Marc:I had no parameters.

00:16:10Marc:I didn't understand what it was.

00:16:13Marc:And same with my emotions.

00:16:15Marc:And also the same with my substances.

00:16:20Marc:So I'm about to go in for this reading of this monologue and the casting agent comes up to me and she's like, when you go in there, you know, just, you know, just go for it.

00:16:33Marc:You know, you know, this this guy's angry.

00:16:35Marc:He's raging.

00:16:38Marc:You know, you can just go for it.

00:16:41Marc:And for some reason, I thought she said, go unload the entire anger of your entire life in that room inappropriately without even remembering the lines of the character in front of a bunch of executives.

00:16:57Marc:That's what my brain heard.

00:16:58Marc:Go in there without any sense of character, any sense of what the scene is, and do this monologue.

00:17:09Marc:With all the rage that is accumulated in your heart, mind, and spirit over the last, I guess, 20 some odd years of your life at that point.

00:17:21Marc:And I went in there and she walked me in and sat down and I unloaded like a type of rage.

00:17:29Marc:Like I was spitting.

00:17:30Marc:I didn't know the lines.

00:17:32Marc:I wasn't talking to anyone in particular.

00:17:34Marc:I was just ranting and my red faced, just screaming all of my guts out.

00:17:43Marc:Totally inappropriately for the character or anything, any public space in general, anywhere that type of expression.

00:17:53Marc:And I finished it and I took a breath and I looked at all of the executives and casting people that were sitting there and they looked absolutely.

00:18:04Marc:I horrified, shocked and maybe a little frightened.

00:18:09Marc:Like like they would like it was like, what just happened?

00:18:15Marc:And I'd like to say that they had me removed by security, but I think I just moped off.

00:18:22Marc:And I'm not even sure I felt like I'd overdone it.

00:18:26Marc:I probably left thinking, yeah, you know, they wanted it, man.

00:18:31Marc:They wanted anger.

00:18:32Marc:That's they got it.

00:18:34Marc:They got it.

00:18:36Marc:So I did not get the part, and I think the general advice there was, you know, in a work situation or when you're interviewing, you know, kind of try to keep your pain and sadness and anger and hostility in check.

00:18:48Marc:You're there for a reason.

00:18:49Marc:Try to contextualize that.

00:18:52Marc:Don't use it as an opportunity to dump your entire life's worth of bile onto strangers that are in charge of giving you a job.

00:19:02Marc:I think that's reasonably good advice.

00:19:08Marc:So, look, people, I've told you I need to tell you, Stephen Root.

00:19:14Marc:I mean, you will know this guy.

00:19:17Marc:Well, he's in Barry right now.

00:19:19Marc:He plays Bill Hader's kind of like contractor, his boss, partner, whatever, the Satan character.

00:19:29Marc:And he's up for an outstanding supporting actor in a comedy series for an Emmy for Barry.

00:19:38Marc:But, you know, he's been in, you know, it's a very memorable role.

00:19:41Marc:Do you remember Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?

00:19:43Marc:He was the blind radio station owner.

00:19:46Marc:He was also in Buster Scruggs.

00:19:48Marc:He was also the staple guy in Office Space.

00:19:51Marc:He's like, he's one of those reoccurring character actors that you're like, there's that guy.

00:19:56Marc:But he's, he's,

00:19:58Marc:Fucking inspired.

00:19:59Marc:And I was happy to talk to him.

00:20:00Marc:This is me talking to Stephen Root.

00:20:13Marc:Yeah, I mean, you can move the mic.

00:20:15Marc:It kind of bounces around.

00:20:17Marc:So you got to go close with it?

00:20:18Marc:Here, where are you?

00:20:19Marc:How come I don't hear you?

00:20:22Guest:I don't know.

00:20:23Guest:Yeah.

00:20:23Guest:It all started in 5,000 round radius.

00:20:26Marc:It did it?

00:20:27Guest:No.

00:20:28Guest:It did not.

00:20:29Guest:It did not start.

00:20:30Marc:Well, you know, I appreciate you coming.

00:20:32Marc:I actually met you briefly, very briefly.

00:20:36Marc:I did one day of shooting on the what's-his-name and what's-his-name wedding dates.

00:20:43Guest:Oh, the Mike movie?

00:20:44Marc:Yeah.

00:20:45Marc:Yeah.

00:20:45Marc:And it was at night where everyone was staying, and it was like, hey, how are you?

00:20:50Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:20:50Marc:And that was it.

00:20:51Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:20:51Marc:Yeah.

00:20:52Marc:Do you watch the movies?

00:20:54Marc:I watch them once.

00:20:56Yeah.

00:20:57Marc:I mean, it just, I must get to a certain point when you've done a million movies.

00:21:03Marc:Yeah.

00:21:03Marc:I talked to, who did I talk to?

00:21:05Marc:Steven Dorff.

00:21:07Marc:I guess it's not, it's kind of an awkward way to start, but do you know- John, he must have done 200 movies.

00:21:12Guest:I mean, that guy's in everything.

00:21:13Marc:Well, it was interesting.

00:21:14Marc:He was, and now like he did that true detective thing, and I thought he really killed it.

00:21:18Guest:Yeah.

00:21:18Marc:He really did something amazing to the point where I didn't even know who the fuck it was.

00:21:22Marc:It was like seeing somebody for the first time.

00:21:24Mm-hmm.

00:21:24Marc:But, you know, he you know, he told me something I should have realized, but I didn't really realize is that like sometimes as an actor, you take the gig, you know, it's not going to be great, but you can do what you do.

00:21:35Guest:And that's that you do.

00:21:36Guest:And there's sometimes when you have a hole in your schedule.

00:21:39Guest:Right.

00:21:39Guest:And you're not going to do Lear.

00:21:41Guest:Yeah.

00:21:43Marc:Something.

00:21:43Guest:Yeah.

00:21:44Marc:And you just throw it in there.

00:21:45Marc:Yeah.

00:21:46Marc:But I mean, I imagine after a certain point, you probably must be I don't watch the shit I do.

00:21:51Marc:Yeah.

00:21:52Guest:Well, first of all, you don't have time, really.

00:21:55Guest:I mean, because since I'm anciently old, it takes me most of my time just to memorize the shit I have to do.

00:22:01Guest:So no, I don't.

00:22:03Guest:How old are you?

00:22:04Guest:I'm 68 in November.

00:22:07Guest:And this is a big year, man.

00:22:08Guest:It's a big year.

00:22:09Marc:It's a very cool year.

00:22:10Marc:I mean, it's not like you certainly deserve the attention.

00:22:15Yeah.

00:22:15Guest:well thank you good night i mean jesus man i mean like barry's great i love the show the character's great you know it's it's it's a show that i liken in tone yeah and intelligentsia to news radio oh yeah i feel like i did that and now i'm doing this because it's it's really the first one i've really signed on to as a regular because

00:22:39Guest:I didn't really want to until now.

00:22:42Guest:Oh, really?

00:22:42Guest:Yeah, because the writing is so good.

00:22:44Guest:Bill is unbelievable.

00:22:46Guest:Yeah.

00:22:47Guest:And the people that do it.

00:22:47Marc:And the tone, yeah.

00:22:48Marc:The tone is like- Tone is just- That edge it rides between- It walks right on the line.

00:22:54Marc:You're just a hair away from hating these fuckers.

00:22:59Marc:Yeah.

00:22:59Marc:They're just morally reprehensible, but you're kind of rooting for all of them.

00:23:03Guest:Kind of like them.

00:23:04Guest:Then you get, they step over and then they step back.

00:23:07Marc:Wait a minute.

00:23:07Marc:Can I still like this guy and be a decent person?

00:23:11Guest:Is Sarah's character just a dick?

00:23:13Guest:No, she's really a good person.

00:23:15Marc:Well, that one's easier to like because you know her, right?

00:23:19Marc:If you work at show business.

00:23:21Guest:She's just self-involved, but she is good.

00:23:23Marc:Right.

00:23:23Marc:Yeah, it's her selfishness.

00:23:24Marc:But you and Hader- Her character, yeah.

00:23:27Marc:Those characters are just shamelessly evil, but they don't really see it that way.

00:23:34Guest:No, I don't.

00:23:34Guest:I think my character doesn't see it that way.

00:23:36Guest:Bill's character, I think- Struggling.

00:23:39Guest:Is really struggling PTSD.

00:23:42Guest:That's what it is.

00:23:42Marc:Oh, interesting.

00:23:43Marc:Yeah, I think.

00:23:44Marc:Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.

00:23:46Marc:Yeah.

00:23:46Marc:So what do you do to pull it together?

00:23:48Marc:Because this role, in terms of the character work you've done, I guess we'll start with the news.

00:23:53Marc:I rarely start with it, but I like the show.

00:23:56Marc:Thanks.

00:23:56Marc:But compared to some of the broader characters you've had to do, this guy is pretty straight ahead, right?

00:24:02Marc:You don't have to...

00:24:04Guest:manufacturer uh too much physicality or air no no and he's in it's what's nice is he's a big character but he's small right you know yeah you you see the small things in his in his face and that's that's fun for me to play as a character yeah instead of you know or right you know buster scruggs where you're going so it's fun to be small on this show

00:24:31Marc:Now, when you approach the script, because he is sort of a satanic character.

00:24:38Marc:Well, I describe him as a bad uncle.

00:24:41Marc:Yeah, a bad uncle.

00:24:43Marc:Right.

00:24:43Marc:But there seems to be this weight to his charm and kind of keep pulling him over to the bad side.

00:24:52Guest:But it's all self-involved bullshit.

00:24:54Guest:Right.

00:24:54Guest:Just give me the money.

00:24:55Guest:Yeah.

00:24:55Guest:The end.

00:24:56Marc:Yeah, and is that where you start when you try to put together a guy like that?

00:25:02Guest:What was interesting about this show was that he didn't start to be that.

00:25:06Guest:He was very much of a one-note yeller, go-out-on-this-job guy.

00:25:11Guest:Really?

00:25:11Guest:In the pilot, yeah.

00:25:13Guest:And it was still an interesting character.

00:25:16Guest:When we finished the pilot, we looked at it, HBO looked at it, and they said, yeah, that's good.

00:25:21Guest:Where are you going to go now?

00:25:22Guest:You're already at 10, right?

00:25:24Guest:Where is where is he going to where is he going to go?

00:25:26Marc:Right.

00:25:27Guest:And Bill and Alex said, yeah, you're right.

00:25:30Guest:And so they rewrote the character into the bad uncle that you see now.

00:25:34Guest:So we re we re shot my portion of the pilot while we were shooting episode one.

00:25:40Marc:No kidding.

00:25:41Marc:So it was just, the guy was just like a rager?

00:25:46Guest:Just a straight out asshole rager.

00:25:49Guest:Yeah, which really had nowhere to go.

00:25:51Guest:Much more interesting being the guy that had known his father for a long time.

00:25:57Guest:He was a bad uncle and said-

00:25:58Guest:how can I make money on this fucker?

00:26:00Guest:He's got this skill set.

00:26:01Guest:He figured that out.

00:26:03Guest:I can make him do this.

00:26:05Marc:And then without the yelling, all the charm and the sort of self-pity, the kind of weird kind of like, come on.

00:26:13Guest:What am I going to do?

00:26:14Guest:These are bad people.

00:26:15Guest:You want to kill them.

00:26:19Marc:And so then the work becomes, is it natural for you?

00:26:23Marc:Do you read the script a thousand times?

00:26:25Guest:uh i do because i like to have a solid base but then of course immediately when you step on the set bill will go now we don't need that throw that all away you know what do you think you'd say here well i'd probably say this okay you know but he's a natural improviser as most of the people coming up these days seems to be they they have improv training i was straight shakespeare theater uh read it on the page and that's what you fucking say

00:26:50Marc:Yeah, no, they're all genius improvisers now.

00:26:53Marc:Absolutely.

00:26:54Guest:So that's a learning curve for me to do that.

00:26:58Guest:So that's a good learning thing for me on this show, to do that more and more.

00:27:02Guest:We did it a little bit in news radio.

00:27:04Guest:You do it more and more in any show that you go on to that isn't strictly worded and scripted type.

00:27:11Marc:But you're doing it more on this show than you have ever?

00:27:14Guest:Mm hmm.

00:27:15Guest:Yep.

00:27:15Guest:And it's and it's right.

00:27:17Guest:Yeah.

00:27:17Guest:And and good because things change in the moment.

00:27:20Marc:Yeah.

00:27:21Marc:And there's a naturalism that happens.

00:27:23Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:27:23Marc:And, you know, and if you got the guy, you kind of like that's what is always impressive.

00:27:28Marc:Like, is if you can lock into the guy and talk like the guy off script.

00:27:31Marc:Mm hmm.

00:27:31Guest:That's always the case anyway.

00:27:33Marc:Right.

00:27:34Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:35Guest:But doing the improv stuff has been a nice learning curve for me and trying to relax while you do it, which is always the hardest thing.

00:27:44Guest:Just relax, be the guy, and then he'll say what he says.

00:27:47Guest:Right.

00:27:47Guest:Yeah.

00:27:48Guest:Trust it, man.

00:27:49Guest:Trust it.

00:27:50Marc:So where did you come from?

00:27:51Marc:Because you're one of these guys, like, you know, there's not a lot of you around anymore.

00:27:57Marc:Right.

00:27:57Marc:You know, these kind of like amazing character actors.

00:28:03Guest:Well, I think there's a whole bunch of them.

00:28:04Guest:You just don't you don't see them as much in your head.

00:28:08Guest:You always see them.

00:28:09Guest:But you always see them.

00:28:10Guest:Right.

00:28:11Guest:Because they're they're the guys in that make the show interesting that you're watching.

00:28:14Marc:Yeah, I know.

00:28:15Marc:I guess maybe I'm romanticizing the 70s a little.

00:28:18Guest:No, I hear you.

00:28:18Marc:Because there was like four dudes that were in everything.

00:28:20Guest:Absolutely.

00:28:21Marc:Hey, there's Ned Beatty again.

00:28:23Guest:Yeah, and Ned Beatty's one of my heroes.

00:28:25Guest:Is he?

00:28:26Guest:Sure.

00:28:26Guest:All those character guys were.

00:28:28Marc:Yeah, like who else?

00:28:29Marc:Oh, my God.

00:28:30Marc:Well, Ned was great, man.

00:28:32Marc:Yeah.

00:28:32Marc:And then I guess...

00:28:34Marc:Harry Dean was around a lot.

00:28:35Guest:Harry Dean was great.

00:28:36Guest:Yeah, he was unbelievable.

00:28:38Guest:He was in everything.

00:28:39Guest:Yeah.

00:28:40Guest:But where did you come from?

00:28:42Guest:I'm like an army brat, but not.

00:28:46Guest:My dad was construction.

00:28:47Guest:He built steam power plants for Abasco.

00:28:51Guest:Basco.

00:28:52Guest:Basco.

00:28:53Guest:And it was all over the Midwest.

00:28:55Guest:And it had taken a year and a half.

00:28:57Guest:A year and a half to build one.

00:28:58Guest:To build one?

00:28:58Guest:And then, boop.

00:28:59Guest:For the city?

00:29:00Guest:Is it like he was contracted by the city?

00:29:02Guest:It's that little plant outside the city you see.

00:29:05Guest:With the steam coming out?

00:29:06Guest:Exactly.

00:29:06Marc:You drive by on the highway and you're like, what the fuck is that smoke?

00:29:09Marc:Uh-huh.

00:29:09Marc:No, I think that's just steam.

00:29:10Guest:And that's just me going to another place.

00:29:12Guest:So we...

00:29:14Guest:Be there a year and a half, two years, and we go somewhere else.

00:29:18Guest:We started out in Glen Rock, Wyoming, to Sioux City, Iowa, to Muncie, Indiana, to Fort Lauderdale, back to Kansas City, Wichita, all those places.

00:29:29Guest:Where were you born?

00:29:30Guest:I was born in Sarasota, literally there for three weeks, my parents.

00:29:34Guest:Then he was transferred to New Orleans, where my brother was born.

00:29:38Guest:And then we were transferred to Monroe.

00:29:42Guest:And then we were transferred to Glen Rock.

00:29:44Guest:Every year and a half.

00:29:45Guest:Pretty much.

00:29:46Guest:Never more than a couple of years.

00:29:48Marc:So you were the kid that, you know, showed up in school.

00:29:50Guest:I was the fat ass kid who'd walk up, you know, to write something on the chalkboard and wiggle his ass and be laughed at.

00:29:58Guest:You know, so I was always the new kid.

00:30:00Marc:Yeah, so you're the one who showed up in the middle of the year?

00:30:03Guest:Yeah, I sit over there.

00:30:05Marc:That's brutal.

00:30:07Guest:It was brutal.

00:30:08Marc:You and your little brother have to go through that?

00:30:09Marc:How many are there of you guys?

00:30:10Guest:There's just two of us, but it wasn't brutal to us because it was normal.

00:30:14Guest:I guess.

00:30:15Guest:Until you got to junior high and high school, where I was two years in Kansas City and then was ripped out and taken down to Vero Beach, Florida.

00:30:23Marc:Right when you had four years.

00:30:23Guest:Right when I finally had some friends and I was a nice science fiction comic book nerd guy, had some friends, was on the track team.

00:30:33Marc:Playing D&D, was that around you?

00:30:34Guest:I didn't do that.

00:30:36Guest:I'd rather sit there and read Asimov.

00:30:41Guest:Right then, and then we'd get ripped and go to Florida and it was like, I found myself cheering for a football team.

00:30:48Guest:I don't give a shit about this.

00:30:51Guest:I just went home.

00:30:53Guest:So you're always a sci-fi guy?

00:30:55Guest:Yeah, I always was.

00:30:56Guest:Because my mom got me into it.

00:30:57Guest:She was a sci-fi, the big four, Clark and Asimov and Heinlein and Simic and all those guys.

00:31:05Guest:Your mom was into it?

00:31:06Guest:Yeah.

00:31:06Guest:What'd she do?

00:31:07Guest:She was a housewife, obviously, because she had to move all the time.

00:31:11Guest:But she had started art classes at Pratt, you know, because she lived in Jersey when she was growing up.

00:31:19Guest:And she would have continued with that.

00:31:21Guest:I think she still did.

00:31:23Guest:She would go to the local paper wherever we would go and say, I can do some layouts for you and draw some bras and whatever.

00:31:31Marc:And she'd do that?

00:31:32Marc:Yeah.

00:31:32Marc:So that was her dream?

00:31:34Guest:I don't know if it was her dream, but she could have done that had she not gotten married and started moving.

00:31:39Marc:I always wonder about that.

00:31:40Marc:My mom is the same way.

00:31:42Marc:She was an art person, a painter.

00:31:45Marc:Yeah.

00:31:45Marc:I've been doing a bit on stage about that, how you don't really know your parents until, if they're lucky enough, they live long enough to get to know them as older people.

00:31:54Marc:Because when they're younger, you don't know them, and they resent you because you ruin their life.

00:32:01Guest:Well, ours would take us to the, I remember in Kansas City, I was probably, I don't know, 13.

00:32:08Guest:My brother was 11 or 9.

00:32:09Guest:They would drop us off at the museum.

00:32:13Guest:All day.

00:32:14Guest:Yeah.

00:32:14Guest:They would just drop us off.

00:32:15Guest:Sure.

00:32:16Guest:And we would play chess outside on the big lions and just walk around as if, you know.

00:32:24Marc:Well, that was back when you could just leave kids places.

00:32:26Guest:You could.

00:32:26Guest:You could just leave kids and they would wander around.

00:32:28Marc:I like that framing of that, though.

00:32:29Marc:Like, my parents are like that, too.

00:32:31Marc:You should go to camp or you should spend a week over there.

00:32:33Marc:And it was really, it seemed, you know, in good, you know, it seemed like

00:32:37Marc:proactive, but I think they want you out of the house.

00:32:40Guest:Yeah, they just want to get rid of you.

00:32:41Guest:You can find that out later when you want to do that to your children.

00:32:45Marc:So where do you land when you graduate high school?

00:32:49Marc:Are you doing any acting at all?

00:32:51Guest:Oh, God, no, no.

00:32:52Guest:Nothing, just reading comic books?

00:32:53Guest:Never, no.

00:32:54Guest:I'd work construction at my dad's plant to pay for college.

00:32:58Guest:So I ended up, University of Florida is where I went because it was cheap back in 1970 and it was a state school.

00:33:05Marc:And was the family there at that point?

00:33:07Guest:They were still there, and then right after that moved to, he finally got his first atomic plant in Hanford that he worked on.

00:33:14Marc:Hanford, where's that?

00:33:15Guest:Hanford, Washington, in the Tri-Cities area.

00:33:18Marc:In Washington State?

00:33:19Guest:Kennewick, Pasco, whatever.

00:33:22Guest:Yeah, in Washington State.

00:33:23Marc:Like a nuclear power plant?

00:33:24Guest:Nuclear power plant.

00:33:25Guest:Yeah, and this is in the late 70s, early 80s.

00:33:29Marc:Was that a thing where he's like, I got to brush up on how to design one of these?

00:33:34Guest:Well, he was construction supervisor, so it's still construction stuff.

00:33:37Guest:Oh, so the plans were in place.

00:33:39Guest:Yeah, he started out as civil engineer.

00:33:41Guest:He's probably one of the last guys without a college degree that got that high.

00:33:44Marc:Right.

00:33:45Guest:Yeah.

00:33:45Marc:So they split and you're in college.

00:33:47Guest:Yeah, they're up in Washington.

00:33:49Guest:I'm in college doing I don't know what.

00:33:52Guest:So I signed up for journalism because I was a photographer for the school paper.

00:33:57Guest:So I don't know what I'm doing.

00:33:58Marc:You're a photography guy too?

00:33:59Guest:I enjoyed it, yeah.

00:34:01Guest:Darkroom stuff?

00:34:01Guest:Darkroom stuff.

00:34:02Guest:I would develop my own color slides in college because I don't know why.

00:34:06Guest:That's complicated.

00:34:08Guest:Yeah, it was fun.

00:34:09Guest:But I did a lot of black and white, the old, you know.

00:34:12Guest:Art stuff?

00:34:12Guest:Yeah, so I did that, and I said, maybe I'll go into that, I don't know.

00:34:16Guest:And then I took an elective just to get a couple of things.

00:34:19Guest:So I was a spear carrier in one of the main stage productions.

00:34:24Guest:And then all these student directors would go,

00:34:26Guest:can I use you for this scene?

00:34:28Guest:And I went, I don't want, okay.

00:34:30Marc:And this is just an elective.

00:34:31Guest:This is just an elective.

00:34:33Guest:Right.

00:34:33Guest:And then three directing scenes in, I went, I can do this.

00:34:38Guest:This is fun.

00:34:39Marc:Yeah.

00:34:40Guest:This is fun.

00:34:40Guest:And there's women here in the department that will maybe go out with me.

00:34:47Marc:A nerd's journey.

00:34:48Guest:It was a nerd's journey into heaven.

00:34:52Yeah.

00:34:52Guest:So, yeah, so then I got hooked up to the theater department, switch majors.

00:34:58Guest:Like two years in?

00:34:59Guest:Yeah.

00:34:59Marc:So you did two years in the theater department, so you got an undergraduate acting degree?

00:35:04Guest:Never.

00:35:05Guest:I got a job before that.

00:35:06Guest:Oh, you didn't finish?

00:35:08Guest:No, God, no.

00:35:09Guest:No, they had a... What?

00:35:11Guest:Hell no.

00:35:13Guest:I have an AA from the University of Florida.

00:35:15Guest:That's all I got.

00:35:16Guest:That's the honorary.

00:35:18Guest:The first two years.

00:35:19Guest:That's it?

00:35:19Guest:The first two years.

00:35:20Guest:That's all I got.

00:35:20Marc:Hasn't anyone given you a special one?

00:35:22Marc:You'd think.

00:35:24Marc:It's only a matter of time.

00:35:26Guest:It is.

00:35:27Guest:Yeah.

00:35:27Guest:If I may get into my 70s, I'd probably get one.

00:35:29Marc:If you grab that Emmy, you might get an honorary degree.

00:35:31Guest:You're right there.

00:35:32Guest:I didn't think about that.

00:35:34Guest:But yeah, so then I changed majors, went into that.

00:35:37Guest:But I left because there's a big audition in the South called the SCTCs.

00:35:44Guest:What is that?

00:35:45Guest:Southeastern Theater Conference Audition.

00:35:47Guest:Oh, okay.

00:35:48Guest:So a lot of regional theater, a lot of...

00:35:49Guest:And the biggest one was the National Shakespeare Company out in New York, Bus and Truck.

00:35:54Guest:Yeah.

00:35:54Guest:That you'd go into the company, you'd put up three shows and tour the country with it.

00:35:59Marc:Did you do any Shakespeare in college?

00:36:01Guest:Yeah.

00:36:01Marc:Oh, you did?

00:36:01Marc:Yeah, I did Shakespeare.

00:36:02Guest:So you took to it?

00:36:03Guest:And I loved it.

00:36:04Guest:Really?

00:36:04Guest:Really loved it.

00:36:05Guest:Huh.

00:36:05Guest:And then so I got that job, went straight, straight from college to New York, three weeks in Woodstock to rehearse three shows onto a 1963 Trailways.

00:36:18Guest:And boom, for nine months of the year, you're playing colleges and and some bigger venues sometimes.

00:36:23Marc:So as a Shakespearean actor, so when they look at you, I imagine they're thinking like, well, this guy's got a handle on the language of it, and they can move you around.

00:36:34Marc:I mean, you should be able to play most of the male parts.

00:36:37Guest:Well, there's only 12 of us in the company, so we were triple cast in every show, unless you were Othello.

00:36:42Guest:You were always somebody.

00:36:44Guest:audrey the country wench and corin the old man you know in the same show it was so you did it real old school you wore wigs you had to play oh yeah fake balloon tits the whole thing it was great it was 24 and so you're on the road yeah you know and there what there's 12 in the but it's this is 76 so we're all you know hippie

00:37:04Guest:hippies with hair down to here that we had to curl up every night and put under wigs.

00:37:08Guest:So you were 24 and 76.

00:37:09Guest:Yeah.

00:37:10Guest:Yeah.

00:37:11Guest:And, uh, and so we were in the middle of the country doing Shakespeare.

00:37:15Guest:You know, we'd, we'd get, we'd go to truck stops and we'd get out the thing and they'd go, Shakespeare, huh?

00:37:20Guest:You make him rod and reels?

00:37:22Guest:Is that what you do?

00:37:23Guest:He's like, no.

00:37:25Marc:Is that a company that makes fishing?

00:37:27Marc:Uh-huh.

00:37:27Yeah.

00:37:28Marc:Yeah, we have to travel cross-country, all of us, in the company.

00:37:32Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:37:32Marc:We're delivering rods and rails now.

00:37:33Guest:Yeah, here's one for you.

00:37:35Guest:But, yeah, it was great.

00:37:36Guest:It was the best training you could get because you'd play the same show in a 300-seat junior college or a 5,000-seat West Point.

00:37:44Guest:Yeah.

00:37:44Guest:And that was two different performances.

00:37:46Marc:Right.

00:37:47Marc:Yeah.

00:37:49Marc:So that was your training?

00:37:52Marc:Yeah.

00:37:52Marc:That was the hands-on?

00:37:53Guest:That was the hands-on.

00:37:53Marc:So who was the director?

00:37:55Marc:Was it one guy?

00:37:57Guest:No, it was a couple of people out of New York that they'd direct the shows, but Philip Meister was the head of the company, and he lasted for a while.

00:38:06Marc:And you learned what, basic Shakespearean acting?

00:38:09Guest:Yeah, iambic pentameter, and we had a couple of older actors in their 30s who had done Shakespeare training, so we learned on the go.

00:38:20Marc:So do you think you, like it would seem to me, I'm just trying to put it together with some of the work you've done throughout your career, is that I imagine that's a pretty good education in sort of being small and being large and being broad.

00:38:34Guest:It was.

00:38:35Marc:Like within Shakespeare, there's all of those.

00:38:37Marc:I mean, if you're wearing a wig and fake boobs.

00:38:39Guest:Absolutely.

00:38:40Guest:But the first thing it helped me in, I think, was when I was a Klingon,

00:38:44Guest:on the next generation.

00:38:46Guest:And they, you know, they stuck these teeth, you know, they put the teeth in there and you got the nose on.

00:38:52Guest:So you had to speak distinctly, which I could do in Klingon ease.

00:38:58Guest:Because of your Shakespearean training.

00:38:59Guest:It was, but it was my training.

00:39:01Marc:So how does it, so after you do that, you're 24.

00:39:04Marc:I mean, it doesn't, it seems like it took a while to start a career.

00:39:09Marc:So where do you go from there?

00:39:10Guest:Oh, yeah, no, it's straight theater.

00:39:12Guest:Because then you come off the tour.

00:39:14Marc:Yeah.

00:39:16Guest:I came off and I did a couple of years on it.

00:39:18Guest:And then I took a half a year off and did a lot of cubicle work and temp work and all that shit.

00:39:25Guest:And then I went back.

00:39:25Guest:In New York?

00:39:26Guest:Yeah, in New York.

00:39:26Guest:Oh, you stayed in New York.

00:39:27Guest:In New York, yeah, of course.

00:39:29Guest:Where were you living?

00:39:30Guest:50th Street, Hell's Kitchen in the 70s.

00:39:34Guest:So it still was kind of Hell's Kitchen.

00:39:36Marc:Wow.

00:39:36Marc:So it was still like the Westies territory.

00:39:39Marc:Yeah.

00:39:41Guest:I can still remember looking out the window and seeing obviously a hooker thrown out of the cab tied with her hands tied.

00:39:50Guest:Oh, wow.

00:39:50Guest:Jesus, we ran down there and untied her and went, boy, I'll see ya.

00:39:54Guest:Yeah.

00:39:54Marc:Wow.

00:39:55Guest:Scary.

00:39:55Marc:Yeah, scary.

00:39:56Marc:And Times Square was still, so it was the late 70s.

00:39:58Marc:It was a mess.

00:39:59Guest:No, it was a mess.

00:40:00Guest:Bad.

00:40:00Guest:You couldn't walk down 41st Street.

00:40:02Marc:Really?

00:40:02Marc:Yeah.

00:40:03Marc:I just remember that all around Port Authority was just crazy, man.

00:40:06Marc:It was.

00:40:07Marc:And all those weird live sex shows.

00:40:09Marc:Oh, all that stuff.

00:40:10Marc:It was not as pretty as it was.

00:40:12Guest:No, and it was pungent when you walked down to 42nd Street in the summer.

00:40:17Marc:Right.

00:40:17Marc:When did it start turning around?

00:40:19Marc:I mean, it was still kind of like,

00:40:20Guest:In the mid 80s, it started turning around.

00:40:22Guest:They were doing a lot of construction.

00:40:23Guest:So it was pretty beat up, right, yeah, yeah.

00:40:25Guest:But yeah, so then I was just doing off, off, off, off, off Broadway.

00:40:29Guest:Like what kind of stuff?

00:40:30Guest:Oh, just really bad shows down below 14th Street.

00:40:34Marc:You just go to auditions by directors who like.

00:40:37Guest:Oh, whatever the rag was in those days, and you'd get auditions that way.

00:40:43Guest:But I finally got one that turned into an off-Broadway show to get the equity card.

00:40:46Guest:Right.

00:40:47Guest:which was a great show called Journey's End, an R.C.

00:40:50Guest:Sheriff World War I play.

00:40:51Guest:So we opened, of course, in the middle of the transit strike and closed.

00:40:57Guest:But that was good because that got me some real regional jobs out of town in Atlanta and on the East Coast.

00:41:04Marc:Well, New York in the late 70s, so were you doing work down there like where the Worcester Group was or any of the weird stuff?

00:41:14Guest:Yeah, down in that place.

00:41:15Guest:Yeah, down below 14th Street, there's a million little theaters that they'd rent for nothing.

00:41:20Guest:They'd pay you nothing.

00:41:21Guest:Literally, they'd pay you two tokens, one to get down there and one to get back.

00:41:25Marc:And what was that experience like?

00:41:26Marc:Did you find that it was helpful?

00:41:28Marc:Yeah, it was helpful.

00:41:29Marc:Because you were forced to do some weird shit.

00:41:32Yeah.

00:41:32Guest:Well, I was forced to make, I think it was good training to make gold out of straw, you know, because it wasn't great writing.

00:41:41Guest:But there's some interesting and good performers that you could work to make this thing better and you had to work hard.

00:41:47Marc:Did you meet, were there guys that we know that you were, you know, kind of come in contact with down there, like playwrights or actors or anybody?

00:41:55Marc:Because there were some people around.

00:41:57Guest:There were, and maybe probably, but I couldn't get- Like Spalding Gray or Defoe or any of those cats here.

00:42:04Guest:Yeah, but I didn't work with them.

00:42:06Guest:They might have made $60 a week.

00:42:10Guest:I made a token.

00:42:12Marc:Right, so they were on the next level.

00:42:13Guest:Exactly.

00:42:14Marc:So now when you do the thing that was off-Broadway that got your equity card, what does it look like when you, what do you mean you get gigs in Atlanta and that kind of stuff?

00:42:24Marc:Has it worked?

00:42:24Guest:Regional theater.

00:42:25Guest:Oh, okay.

00:42:26Guest:Because what got me the equity card then gets you your first agent, your first manager, whatever, who then sends you out.

00:42:34Guest:for the regional jobs on the east coast you know so that west port and all and and all those so you'd like to do a couple months in the summer doing two shows whenever yeah everyone knew usually eight week nine week ten week productions you know you rehearse a couple weeks and do them for six weeks for subscription theaters for older people a lot of blue hairs yeah and like you're doing musicals

00:42:58Guest:I didn't do musicals, although I was cast in one.

00:43:01Guest:I didn't get to do it.

00:43:02Guest:But I did mostly some classic stuff, a lot of new stuff that the regionals would do.

00:43:08Guest:And that's what ended up getting me on Broadway, which we did a show called So Long on Lonely Street at the Alliance in Atlanta.

00:43:16Guest:And that transferred to Boston, transferred to Broadway.

00:43:21Guest:So that was my first Broadway thing.

00:43:22Guest:Yeah, and was it a lead?

00:43:24Guest:It was the lead, yeah.

00:43:25Guest:Yeah?

00:43:25Guest:It was the lead.

00:43:26Guest:It was great.

00:43:27Guest:Lasted for a month.

00:43:29Guest:That's pretty good.

00:43:29Guest:That's not bad.

00:43:30Guest:Not bad.

00:43:31Marc:Good reviews?

00:43:32Guest:Oh, no.

00:43:33Guest:That's why it lasted a month.

00:43:37Guest:But it was great, though.

00:43:39Guest:I mean, because...

00:43:40Guest:going going out of town and rehearsing out of town in boston and having a big success there and then coming into town and going that is a piece of shit from atlanta is that what happened yeah well that is true i mean like i guess that's a good way to do it i know that about stand-up that you know it's the only way you pound it out and then you show up never expected to do film or tv i mean i thought i was gonna be a regional theater actor that's what i got into doing and you were and you were okay with that

00:44:06Guest:I was okay with that.

00:44:07Guest:And then by the mid 80s, I'd been in New York long enough that I'd seen enough casting directors go, do you want to audition for this movie?

00:44:15Guest:Yeah.

00:44:15Guest:Or this TV thing?

00:44:16Guest:Yeah.

00:44:17Marc:Yeah.

00:44:18Marc:And so outside of the Shakespearean touring company, no training?

00:44:24No.

00:44:24Guest:Other than what I had at Florida, which was minimal, really.

00:44:29Guest:The training that I got was on stage.

00:44:31Marc:Yeah.

00:44:32Marc:Yeah.

00:44:32Marc:Interesting.

00:44:33Marc:Yeah.

00:44:34Marc:I mean, because I talk to actors because I try to kind of suck an acting lesson out of you.

00:44:41Yeah.

00:44:42Guest:The only way that I learn is working with actors that are much better than I am.

00:44:47Guest:True, right?

00:44:48Guest:Yeah, and you steal from them.

00:44:50Guest:That's as you do.

00:44:51Guest:Yeah.

00:44:51Guest:From everyone.

00:44:52Guest:You steal from the 30s character actors that you saw in movies that you love.

00:44:55Guest:Their approach.

00:44:56Guest:You steal from the 50s characters.

00:44:57Marc:What are you stealing exactly?

00:44:58Guest:By stealing, I mean you see their timing.

00:45:03Guest:Yes.

00:45:03Guest:And you see how good they are.

00:45:06Guest:And you absorb it as much as you can.

00:45:08Guest:I think I got half my timing from Warner Brothers cartoons because the timing in those things was so great.

00:45:14Guest:Right.

00:45:15Guest:And you got that.

00:45:20Guest:And by stealing, I mean just absorbing what you can learn from people that are really good.

00:45:25Marc:Well, I noticed that recently, just because I'm relatively new at it, is that there is a pace that you have to own when you're doing something.

00:45:33Marc:It's really, and you decide it, right?

00:45:36Marc:So the timing is everything.

00:45:37Marc:I imagine with Shakespeare, too.

00:45:39Marc:If you're nervous or you don't know where you're going with your character, you're probably going to rush, and it's not going to land.

00:45:46Marc:Shit's got to land.

00:45:47Guest:Which is why I have to have a really solid base.

00:45:50Guest:Usually, I'll go over and over and over lines so that

00:45:53Guest:then I know them so well that then I can play.

00:45:57Guest:Then I can go this way, go that way, go anyway.

00:46:00Marc:So that's the way to do it.

00:46:01Guest:For me.

00:46:01Guest:Yeah.

00:46:02Guest:But that's not, a lot of people show up and while they're in makeup, they look at their script and go, what's today?

00:46:08Guest:I can't do that.

00:46:09Guest:Right.

00:46:09Guest:But that's, it's how you do it for you.

00:46:12Marc:Well, it's interesting, right?

00:46:13Marc:Because I imagine they kind of, either they just, they don't care and they can pull it off.

00:46:20Marc:I'm hoping that's not the truth, but they can pull it off.

00:46:22Guest:Yeah, because they either have a great memory or they're just more comfortable being, just barely knowing it.

00:46:29Marc:Right, and it gets him in the moment, maybe.

00:46:31Marc:It does.

00:46:31Marc:It's sort of a cheat.

00:46:32Guest:And for me, being prepared gets me in the moment.

00:46:36Guest:Right.

00:46:36Guest:And then I can do whatever I want.

00:46:38Marc:Right.

00:46:39Marc:So, okay, so you're doing all these series.

00:46:40Marc:Did you ever have any great successes on Broadway?

00:46:44Guest:Uh...

00:46:45Guest:We, yeah, I guess so.

00:46:47Guest:We won the Tony for Best Revival of All My Sons back in 86.

00:46:52Marc:I just saw that show with Tracy Letts.

00:46:54Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:46:55Guest:And we were lucky enough after winning the Tony that we had Arthur Miller come talk to us on the steps of the stage.

00:47:04Guest:You know, the ultimate theater experience.

00:47:07Marc:And what year was that?

00:47:08Marc:That was...

00:47:10Guest:Six or seven.

00:47:11Guest:So he's old.

00:47:12Guest:Yeah, he's old.

00:47:13Guest:And what do you have to say?

00:47:14Guest:He liked it a lot because we had just a really good cast and he liked it.

00:47:21Marc:And who was the lead?

00:47:23Guest:We had a couple of leads.

00:47:24Guest:Ralph Waite started it at the Longhorn.

00:47:26Marc:Oh, from the Waltons?

00:47:27Guest:From the Waltons, yeah.

00:47:28Guest:He was the old man.

00:47:29Guest:He was the dad.

00:47:30Guest:Yeah, he was the dad.

00:47:32Guest:We had a couple of others, but Man of La Mancha, he starred in the film Man of La Mancha.

00:47:38Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:47:39Guest:Him.

00:47:39Marc:Not Jose.

00:47:40Guest:No.

00:47:41Guest:What is that guy's name?

00:47:43Guest:Jeez.

00:47:43Guest:Yeah, that guy.

00:47:44Guest:The him.

00:47:45Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:47:46Guest:Which I was with every day and I can't remember his name.

00:47:48Guest:I can't remember anybody's name anymore.

00:47:50Guest:It's astonishing.

00:47:51Marc:Well, you know, when you have a life and you've lived a couple of different cities.

00:47:54Marc:Holy moly.

00:47:55Marc:It gets to a point where you're like, someone goes, you know, hey, Stephen.

00:47:57Marc:You're like, just give me a time frame and a city.

00:48:01Okay.

00:48:01Guest:Yeah.

00:48:01Marc:And tell me I didn't do anything terrible.

00:48:03Guest:What I know is when people come up to me and say, Steve, I go, oh, that's somebody from 30 years ago.

00:48:09Guest:I've been Steve for a long time.

00:48:11Guest:Yeah.

00:48:12Guest:What are you, Steven?

00:48:13Guest:I've been Steven since, yeah, since I had- Oh, really?

00:48:16Guest:Yeah.

00:48:16Guest:You made a choice?

00:48:17Guest:I made a choice to be Steven.

00:48:18Guest:So only people that knew you that long ago were Steve?

00:48:20Guest:Steve, yeah.

00:48:22Guest:They all think I'm fucking weird if I-

00:48:25Guest:Steven, that's not who you are.

00:48:27Guest:We know you, Steve.

00:48:28Guest:You're Root.

00:48:29Marc:You're Steve Root.

00:48:32Marc:Those guys are still around?

00:48:34Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:48:34Guest:This is great.

00:48:35Marc:Still a friend with them?

00:48:36Guest:Oh, yes.

00:48:37Guest:Several.

00:48:38Marc:So, okay.

00:48:38Marc:So then you're kicking around.

00:48:39Marc:So when does the movie thing kick in?

00:48:42Guest:It kicked in.

00:48:45Guest:I did my first movie.

00:48:48Guest:I went in to read and they liked me.

00:48:51Guest:And they said, you're going to the callback, but don't you ever tell them that this is your first movie.

00:48:57Guest:So I didn't, but I got the job.

00:48:59Guest:What was it?

00:49:00Guest:Monkey Shines, George Romero.

00:49:02Guest:Oh, really?

00:49:03Guest:Yeah.

00:49:03Marc:I kind of remember that.

00:49:04Guest:Yeah.

00:49:05Guest:Johnny Panko is in it.

00:49:06Guest:It's great.

00:49:08Guest:Is it a scary movie?

00:49:10Guest:Yeah.

00:49:10Guest:It's kind of a horror movie.

00:49:13Guest:Monkey licks your bleeding wounds movie.

00:49:15Guest:Oh, wow.

00:49:16Guest:But then I got into Crocodile Dundee, the sequels.

00:49:20Guest:The Truckadown 92.

00:49:22Guest:Yeah.

00:49:22Guest:And had a nice part in that.

00:49:24Guest:And then got into Ghost.

00:49:26Guest:Yeah.

00:49:26Guest:Which was a big movie.

00:49:27Guest:Yeah.

00:49:28Guest:Huge movie.

00:49:28Guest:So I'm thinking, oh, motherfucker.

00:49:29Guest:You're in.

00:49:30Guest:I'm into the big movies.

00:49:31Guest:And that was the last one.

00:49:32Guest:That was it?

00:49:32Guest:Of course, for a long time.

00:49:34Guest:Was it?

00:49:35Guest:Yeah.

00:49:35Guest:Because then I started doing a lot of TV out in LA.

00:49:37Guest:Because I came out to LA in 90s.

00:49:39Marc:but it says like let's see i'm just looking at some of the credits like what where were you in stanley and iris yeah and what it was that a good part oh it's great i got to work with deniro it was fantastic yeah and did you would you learn anything from him that he was really generous i mean he had i i played um he had to put his father in a home i played the head of the home oh yeah uh and then i have to tell him at some point in the picture that his father has died

00:50:03Guest:and he does his crying, and he did his crying off screen for me while I was doing my off stage line, so he was very generous.

00:50:12Marc:Oh, that's great.

00:50:13Guest:Yeah, yeah, it was awesome.

00:50:14Marc:And Ghost, and then did you have scenes with him in Guilty by Suspicion as well?

00:50:19Guest:Yeah, just short, short thing.

00:50:21Marc:So a lot of them were those kind of parts.

00:50:23Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:50:24Guest:Yeah, because you had a few lines.

00:50:25Guest:You could do five, ten Broadway plays, and then you go to L.A., and you're at the bottom of the rung.

00:50:32Guest:Right.

00:50:32Guest:Yeah, because they don't care what you do in Broadway.

00:50:34Marc:But it seems like you were pretty good at at least making- I was a good auditioner.

00:50:39Marc:Good auditioner.

00:50:39Marc:But even if you had four lines, you grounded yourself in it.

00:50:42Marc:You showed up for work.

00:50:44Marc:And you're like, that guy.

00:50:45Guest:Because that was theater training.

00:50:47Guest:You ground yourself.

00:50:48Guest:You know your lines.

00:50:49Guest:You don't bump into the furniture, and you're there.

00:50:50Guest:and then you just started and so when do you move to la like permanent uh in 90. yeah in 90 uh and i started immediately doing you know guest star stuff yeah yeah was that fun it was fun because the first thing i did i think was uh night court uh i did a couple couple of things with harry harry actually wrote me an episode and and roseanne and and all that stuff then

00:51:14Marc:So, and that's a lot like theater, three camera.

00:51:18Marc:Very much so.

00:51:19Marc:You know, you're just a live audience?

00:51:20Marc:Yeah.

00:51:21Marc:And is that where you started to, you know, kind of really realize that, you know, in order to kind of really land it, you could kind of push the character a bit?

00:51:31Yeah.

00:51:31Guest:Yeah, because it's a strange hybrid doing three camera and an audience, four camera and an audience, where you have to be small enough for the camera and big enough for a 200 seat audience.

00:51:43Guest:Get the laugh.

00:51:44Guest:Yeah, so it was a great learning experience.

00:51:48Marc:Wow, you did Jake and the Fat Man?

00:51:50Marc:Twice.

00:51:51Marc:That was canon, right?

00:51:55Guest:Yeah, who never, ever,

00:51:57Guest:ever learned a line.

00:51:59Guest:William Conrad.

00:52:00Guest:Only huge cards behind your head that he read.

00:52:07Guest:Never looked at you.

00:52:08Guest:Only read his cards behind your head.

00:52:12Guest:And it was great.

00:52:13Guest:He was great.

00:52:14Marc:I remember when I was a kid because my parents used to watch Canon.

00:52:18Marc:Yeah.

00:52:19Marc:That was like a big show.

00:52:20Marc:Was.

00:52:21Marc:So was that one of those, like I imagine as you get into working with these people that you've known as- It's a cool thing for a nerd boy to go work with these guys.

00:52:32Marc:And was that the first time you're like, oh, this is a different world.

00:52:35Marc:They're holding a giant sign behind me and you can really get away with stuff here.

00:52:39Guest:Why doesn't he learn his lines?

00:52:41Guest:Yeah.

00:52:41Guest:that was the question yeah no it's just i mean but that happens a lot you know sometimes they're just no time you know because they're on a 16 hour day and they have no time to do it so so you're just kicking around but you're making a living yeah making a living and and but you're not not necessarily noticed no one's really no no i'd cut you know i was like the stealth bomber i'd come in and do stuff and that would be you know recognized as funny and then what was it

00:53:09Guest:Got a chance to do it more on news radio because I had five years of that.

00:53:14Marc:And that was like you were a regular guy.

00:53:16Marc:You were on every episode.

00:53:18Marc:You were like the owner?

00:53:19Marc:I was the owner.

00:53:20Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:53:21Marc:So you're working with Andy and Joe.

00:53:23Guest:Phil Hartman.

00:53:23Marc:Phil.

00:53:24Guest:Yeah.

00:53:26Guest:Yeah.

00:53:26Guest:And Joe Rogan and Vicki Lewis, Maura Tierney.

00:53:30Guest:I mean, it was an unbelievable cast that I still love them all very much.

00:53:34Marc:So that was when, I mean, you're almost 40?

00:53:36Marc:Oh, I'm 42, 43, something like that.

00:53:40Marc:And that was the one that got you your insurance?

00:53:43Marc:Yeah, yeah, all that stuff.

00:53:45Guest:It's like an Ed Asner.

00:53:47Guest:At that point, I was hoping to be Ed Asner.

00:53:49Guest:Yeah.

00:53:50Guest:Because Ed got his Mary Tyler Moore job right about the same time, 42, 43.

00:53:55Guest:He was about out of the business.

00:53:57Guest:Right.

00:53:57Guest:And he got that, and then, and then it's Ed Asner.

00:54:00Guest:Were you thinking that at the time?

00:54:01Marc:Because I know that I have thought that.

00:54:04Marc:When I heard that story, I thought of that.

00:54:06Marc:Right.

00:54:06Marc:Well, the guys you compare yourself to keep getting older in terms of when they broke.

00:54:10Marc:Absolutely.

00:54:11Marc:Yes.

00:54:12Marc:Sure.

00:54:13Marc:It eventually ends up like, well, Dangerfield.

00:54:15Guest:I'll be able to do it someday.

00:54:17Marc:Yeah.

00:54:19Marc:And so news radio, then you landed and you were there for like 100?

00:54:22Guest:100 shows, yeah.

00:54:25Guest:And then Phil, of course, unfortunately got killed.

00:54:28Guest:And we did another season with Lovett's as Phil's replacement, yeah.

00:54:34Marc:I interviewed Phil, not here, obviously, but in another format, in a weird sort of, it was like a streaming show, but it was almost like before the internet could do it.

00:54:45Marc:Right.

00:54:46Marc:So no one saw it or heard it unless you worked at the Microsoft purpose.

00:54:50Marc:Yeah.

00:54:51Marc:But I did get to meet him, and he's a very gracious, nice guy.

00:54:54Marc:Really was.

00:54:55Marc:And I recently acquired the America album that he did the cover art for.

00:55:01Marc:Yeah.

00:55:01Guest:He did.

00:55:02Guest:He did a lot of... He did Poco.

00:55:04Guest:Yeah.

00:55:04Guest:He did a whole bunch of stuff.

00:55:06Marc:Yeah, that was his thing.

00:55:07Marc:Yeah.

00:55:07Marc:But I imagine working with a guy like that, he must have picked up some things.

00:55:11Marc:Absolutely.

00:55:12Marc:Because he's another guy that can drop into characters, and he has that amazing timing that also seems founded in Warner Brothers.

00:55:19Guest:It is, but also he was a very meticulous guy.

00:55:23Guest:He was the guy that had tabs on every scene in his script, knew exactly where he was at all times, scene number seven.

00:55:29Guest:Yep.

00:55:29Guest:boom there, and he was very, very prepared.

00:55:34Marc:So he's a guy that didn't carry sides, he had a book of the script.

00:55:38Marc:I'm noticing that more.

00:55:40Marc:I think that's one of the trickiest things about acting is if you shoot at a sequence, would it happen right before this?

00:55:46Guest:Yeah, that's part of your homework, just to really find out where you are in the script.

00:55:51Guest:I just shot an indie where we did the last scene first.

00:55:56Guest:Yeah.

00:55:57Guest:And it was like, well, I don't have a character yet.

00:55:59Guest:Here we go.

00:55:59Guest:Yeah.

00:56:00Guest:The end of the movie.

00:56:01Guest:Yeah.

00:56:02Guest:End of the movie.

00:56:03Guest:I want you to figure out that character right now.

00:56:05Guest:Backloaded.

00:56:06Guest:Yeah.

00:56:07Marc:Yeah.

00:56:07Marc:I mean, it's weird because like, if you're not careful, you just sort of have the same energy in every scene.

00:56:11Marc:It's like, how come this guy's not tired?

00:56:12Marc:Didn't he just run here?

00:56:14Guest:Yeah, so that's what I learned mainly in the first years in television.

00:56:17Guest:You had to know exactly where you were in the script.

00:56:19Marc:Do you have an old book for yourself?

00:56:21Guest:A couple of them.

00:56:22Guest:I used to keep a lot of stuff, and then my wife finally said, no.

00:56:27Guest:You're not keeping that anymore.

00:56:28Marc:But in terms of when you're on set, do you deal with sides, or do you have the whole script with you?

00:56:34Guest:I like to deal with, I like to hold sides during camera blocking.

00:56:42Guest:Right.

00:56:43Guest:And then I have to throw them because then my life draft is gone and you have to work.

00:56:48Marc:Right.

00:56:48Marc:Yeah.

00:56:49Marc:So after news radio, when does the relationship with, well, the Coens happens later.

00:56:55Marc:So how does office space, I mean, because that seems.

00:56:57Marc:Well, that's King of the Hill.

00:56:59Guest:Yeah.

00:56:59Guest:Because right at the same time I was doing news radio, King of the Hill, they asked me to audition for that.

00:57:06Guest:Mike did, because he knew I did a lot of Southern characters, and I had done a lot of Southern theater characters.

00:57:10Guest:He said, come in for this.

00:57:13Guest:So got on that, and then from that, he started writing Office Space, and we were all on the Fox lot doing King of the Hill, so he picked a bunch of us King of the Hill guys to read it for Fox.

00:57:25Right.

00:57:25Marc:Oh, you did a table read.

00:57:27Guest:We did a table read for Fox.

00:57:28Guest:And Mike was going to read Milton, the part that I did.

00:57:32Guest:And he said, no, I just want to see it.

00:57:34Guest:You read it.

00:57:36Guest:Oh, thanks for the prep as we're walking over.

00:57:38Guest:And he gives me this two minutes pencil sketch that he'd done of Milton.

00:57:42Guest:And he said, do that guy, kind of.

00:57:45Guest:And I said, okay.

00:57:46Guest:I said, I probably would give him more of a lisp and haltingness.

00:57:52Guest:And he said, whatever you do.

00:57:53Guest:Have fun.

00:57:56Guest:But I did three or four characters that day.

00:57:58Guest:I did the...

00:57:59Guest:The hypnotist who dies in the middle of.

00:58:03Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:58:04Marc:What's that guy's name who played him?

00:58:06Marc:The big guy.

00:58:06Guest:Oh, he's great.

00:58:07Marc:He used to be on Whose Line?

00:58:09Guest:Yeah.

00:58:09Guest:Great improviser.

00:58:10Guest:Yeah.

00:58:10Guest:Really liked that guy.

00:58:11Guest:Tremendous.

00:58:12Marc:I can't remember.

00:58:12Guest:So I did his part.

00:58:14Guest:I did one of the Bobs.

00:58:15Guest:I did something else.

00:58:16Guest:So I did like three or four parts during that reading.

00:58:18Marc:And then they bought it.

00:58:20Marc:Yeah.

00:58:21Marc:And then it becomes like initially.

00:58:23Marc:Nothing.

00:58:24Guest:Zero.

00:58:24Guest:Yeah.

00:58:24Marc:Really.

00:58:25Guest:Yeah.

00:58:25Guest:Zero.

00:58:26Guest:But it was right at the time, around 2000, 99, 2000, when DVDs were becoming the huge thing.

00:58:33Guest:Right.

00:58:34Guest:So you go to Blockbuster and they recommend stuff and it became a word of mouth movie and then people started coming up to you in the street saying you're lying.

00:58:43Guest:You go, nobody saw that movie.

00:58:45Guest:How did that happen?

00:58:46Guest:And it's DVDs.

00:58:47Marc:and it was huge i just was at the uh i just was in uh austin yeah for i was at south by southwest and then i was asked to present at some weird event where it was the anniversary of office space what is it like 20 years yeah and a couple of the guys were there and mike was there yeah i i was going to be there but i was working yeah and so that that guy that character you just put that together

00:59:11Marc:Because that's the first time I remember seeing you, but that was such a transformation thing.

00:59:19Guest:Yeah, but that's what I'd always been doing, but it got seen on a bigger scale for that.

00:59:25Guest:It was just something that was real natural for me to do.

00:59:30Guest:I just love that guy.

00:59:34Guest:I knew him.

00:59:36Guest:I knew guys like him.

00:59:38Guest:And I could do him.

00:59:40Marc:So would you do that?

00:59:41Marc:I mean, so you knew guys like him.

00:59:43Marc:So do you find yourself, you know, like seeing people and are you a good mimic?

00:59:49Guest:No, I'm a fairly decent audio mimic.

00:59:53Guest:But I think all my life I've always felt like I was observing, you know.

01:00:00Guest:I think a lot of shy, quiet guys are observers.

01:00:06Marc:And also, do you feel like that... And this is a weird question, but I just ask it from my own point of view.

01:00:13Marc:Did you feel like that you didn't have a complete self...

01:00:16Guest:Yeah, I did.

01:00:17Guest:And then maybe that was because we moved.

01:00:19Guest:Yeah.

01:00:20Guest:I had no chance to complete myself.

01:00:22Guest:Right.

01:00:22Guest:Until I got to college.

01:00:23Marc:And that creates a sensitivity.

01:00:25Guest:Yeah.

01:00:26Guest:And because you're always looking, what is, should I be doing that?

01:00:30Guest:I don't know.

01:00:31Marc:That's true.

01:00:32Marc:And that seems to be able to talk to people and people like him.

01:00:37Marc:Maybe I should.

01:00:38Marc:Even if it's a haircut or a movement or a shoe.

01:00:40Guest:Yeah.

01:00:41Guest:And that's where you get a lot of stuff.

01:00:43Guest:It's where you get Milton from office space because he doesn't understand.

01:00:48Guest:Look, I don't know.

01:00:50Marc:You know, it's amazing that he's right there.

01:00:52Guest:He's there whenever you need him.

01:00:54Guest:But people can do him really much better than I can.

01:00:57Guest:Oh, really?

01:00:57Guest:Years later.

01:00:58Guest:Yeah, they come up to me.

01:00:59Guest:They're much better at it than I am now.

01:01:01Marc:So does that function as some sort of break for you in film?

01:01:06Marc:I mean, after the DVD thing or no?

01:01:10Marc:Not really.

01:01:11Marc:It's just- You're just kind of plugging along still?

01:01:13Guest:Plugging along.

01:01:14Marc:But news radio's huge.

01:01:15Marc:News radio was- You're good.

01:01:16Marc:Was nice.

01:01:17Marc:Got a house.

01:01:18Marc:You got- Settled.

01:01:18Marc:Security.

01:01:19Guest:Settled and some residuals and some okay.

01:01:23Marc:Yeah.

01:01:23Guest:And then you go get some more jobs.

01:01:24Guest:Right.

01:01:25Guest:But I found that I was just doing, I was getting offers and auditions for only sitcoms.

01:01:31Guest:So after a while, I just kind of stopped doing them and waited for some more.

01:01:36Guest:It's like, guys, I'm starting Shakespeare.

01:01:38Guest:I can do some other stuff.

01:01:39Marc:So you were concerned that you would be stuck there?

01:01:41Guest:Yeah, I thought I'd be pigeonholed.

01:01:43Guest:So I wanted to educate some of the casting directors around town.

01:01:47Guest:So I ended up, which was good,

01:01:49Guest:I ended up getting smaller parts in dramatic shows until I finally got a nice recurring on West Wing.

01:01:58Guest:And then, okay, all right, you can do that.

01:01:59Guest:That's fine.

01:02:00Guest:And then that leads to other things.

01:02:02Guest:And then they see you not as just Mr. Comedy.

01:02:05Marc:When does a relationship with the Coens happen?

01:02:07Guest:It happened around the same time as, I think it was around 2000, around the same time as right after Office Space.

01:02:16Guest:I'm sure that they didn't know of Office Space because I went into their audition as a straight audition.

01:02:23Guest:Yeah.

01:02:23Guest:You know, working character actor.

01:02:25Marc:Right.

01:02:26Marc:They love working character actors.

01:02:27Guest:Yeah, so I went in and we're what, three feet apart?

01:02:32Marc:Yeah.

01:02:32Guest:And I went in and they said, so you want to do this guy?

01:02:36Guest:And I went, yeah.

01:02:37Marc:The two of them and the casting director?

01:02:38Guest:Yeah, the two of them and the casting director.

01:02:40Guest:And I took off my glasses and I did the...

01:02:44Guest:Dropped your eye.

01:02:47Guest:Yeah, dropped my eye, and then I started doing the guy, and they just both went like that, which was great.

01:02:53Guest:It was my finest hour ever as an actor.

01:02:56Guest:And they gave me the role, which was very nice.

01:02:59Marc:So you read the sides, and you had the guy when you went in.

01:03:02Guest:Yeah, I knew the guy.

01:03:03Guest:I knew the guy.

01:03:05Guest:Had you met that guy, that blind guy?

01:03:08Guest:I'd heard that guy millions of times in the South.

01:03:10Guest:Growing up in the South, yeah.

01:03:12Guest:And I'd seen him from, he's an amalgamation of a couple of 30s things that I saw, yeah.

01:03:21Marc:Yeah, I thought that was an amazing character.

01:03:23Marc:And that's one of those ones where after you see Office Space and then you go see a brother, you're like,

01:03:28Marc:That's that fucking guy.

01:03:30Marc:That's that guy, that weird guy.

01:03:32Marc:Well, he can do all these things.

01:03:34Marc:But the thing is, it seems that how the Coens use character actors and with the potential for cartooniness.

01:03:43Marc:It's always there.

01:03:44Marc:Right, but they have a real handle on it.

01:03:46Marc:They're so set.

01:03:47Marc:Yeah, because they did it with Nicolas Cage in Raising Arizona.

01:03:51Marc:They're like, you're a cartoon.

01:03:53Marc:Yeah.

01:03:53Marc:And that's that.

01:03:54Marc:But then they kind of are able to ride this interesting line that is uniquely theirs, I think.

01:04:00Guest:Yeah, I mean, they're storyboarded with an inch of their lives.

01:04:02Guest:That's what I heard.

01:04:03Guest:And it's a beautiful thing because then you do that and they're happy and then you play with one.

01:04:09Guest:And they might use some of that, might not.

01:04:10Marc:Oh, okay.

01:04:11Guest:But it's very structured and easy to work with, yeah.

01:04:15Marc:And they're good guys?

01:04:16Guest:Oh, they're great guys.

01:04:17Marc:But they seem like the kind of guys like once they cast, you know, somebody who's, you know, I imagine that a lot of the actors they work with are as dug in as you and their character actors.

01:04:26Marc:And so they're sort of like, you know, we hired you to do the job.

01:04:29Guest:Yeah.

01:04:29Marc:There's not a lot of notes there.

01:04:31Guest:Do what you do.

01:04:32Guest:We'll tell you if you go way the hell off.

01:04:34Marc:But yeah, because I found that kind of amazing in the part that you had in Buster Scruggs.

01:04:41Marc:was that you didn't work with those three dudes, but, you know, you did the thing with Franco.

01:04:45Marc:But when Franco was, you know, when those three guys ride up, they're all such old-timey character actors.

01:04:53Marc:They just ate Franco for lunch.

01:04:56Marc:It's so great.

01:04:57Marc:Yeah, it was amazing.

01:04:58Marc:It was like you can't even, you don't even know Franco's there.

01:05:01Marc:Oh, yeah, he's got the noose around.

01:05:02Marc:I was like, but what are those guys?

01:05:04Guest:Those guys, because you're looking at it.

01:05:05Guest:Well, that's true.

01:05:06Guest:In all the great 30s, 40s movies, you're looking at the character.

01:05:11Guest:You're looking at Frank Morgan.

01:05:12Marc:Yeah, that's true.

01:05:13Guest:Doing five characters in Wizard of Oz.

01:05:15Guest:Unbelievable people.

01:05:17Marc:Forever in your mind, those guys.

01:05:19Marc:Yeah.

01:05:20Marc:And you did another one with them, right?

01:05:21Marc:Or two more?

01:05:22Guest:A couple more.

01:05:23Guest:Yeah, No Country.

01:05:24Guest:No Country, which is just great, because I got to work with Woody.

01:05:28Guest:Oh.

01:05:28Marc:Oh, that's right.

01:05:29Marc:You get shot up.

01:05:30Guest:In the face.

01:05:31Guest:Yes.

01:05:32Guest:Lovely.

01:05:32Guest:Yeah.

01:05:33Marc:What did he say?

01:05:34Marc:He's so good in it.

01:05:35Guest:Everyone's so fucking good in it.

01:05:36Guest:Oh, my God.

01:05:37Guest:Roland was crazy.

01:05:38Guest:Such a scary movie in terms of, there's no music in that movie.

01:05:42Guest:There's no soundtrack.

01:05:43Guest:There's just sounds.

01:05:45Guest:Yeah.

01:05:45Guest:You know, squeaking sounds.

01:05:46Guest:I don't know if I noticed that.

01:05:47Guest:Oh, my God.

01:05:48Guest:Next time you watch.

01:05:49Marc:Not a soundtrack.

01:05:49Guest:Not a soundtrack.

01:05:51Marc:And Scruggs, so you did three or four?

01:05:54Guest:I also did Lady Killers.

01:05:55Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:05:56Guest:Yeah, which was with Hanks, with Tom Hanks, and he was fantastic in it.

01:06:01Marc:How does he, like, that's right, he played this sort of southern kind of dandy-ish.

01:06:05Guest:Yeah, yeah, their bank robbery type of thing.

01:06:07Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:09Mm-hmm.

01:06:09Marc:How was he to work with?

01:06:10Marc:Was that like a big moment?

01:06:11Guest:It was big for me because he cast me in From the Earth to the Moon before that.

01:06:17Guest:From the Earth to the Moon, the HBO thing.

01:06:21Guest:And I got to play Chris Kraft, head of flight operations at NASA.

01:06:26Guest:Oh, the guy that Harris played?

01:06:28Guest:Yeah, he just passed.

01:06:30Guest:But I played him through the whole series.

01:06:32Guest:And so Tom had hired me for that, yeah.

01:06:36Marc:And you seem to do a lot of these crazy comedies.

01:06:40Guest:Mm-hmm.

01:06:41Marc:But Idiocracy.

01:06:42Marc:Now, I think that movie was genius.

01:06:44Guest:It's way ahead of its time.

01:06:45Guest:It's what's happening right now.

01:06:47Marc:Sure.

01:06:48Marc:I mean, as a satire, it was very prescient.

01:06:50Marc:Yeah.

01:06:51Marc:But I don't know why the movie didn't take off Office Space and develop a cult.

01:06:56Guest:Don't know whether that's Fox's problem with promotion or what.

01:07:00Marc:I feel like if it could have had a couple more million dollars, it would have been different.

01:07:05Guest:Yeah, and maybe, I don't know, maybe a bigger star, but I mean, I thought everybody was great.

01:07:09Guest:Oh, Dax Shepard.

01:07:10Guest:Dax, fantastic.

01:07:11Guest:And that was his first huge role.

01:07:13Guest:It was great.

01:07:13Guest:Baiting.

01:07:14Guest:I'm baiting.

01:07:18Marc:I like the slang of it.

01:07:19Marc:Like, it's just what we all do.

01:07:21Marc:Oh, yeah, you're in Get Out.

01:07:22Marc:Jesus Christ.

01:07:24Marc:You were the photographer with no eyes, right?

01:07:26Guest:Of course.

01:07:27Guest:That's my guy.

01:07:29Yeah.

01:07:29Guest:That likes to get his scalp cut off.

01:07:31Guest:Yeah, it's lovely.

01:07:32Guest:I'll do that.

01:07:33Marc:And how do you, like when, so you get, you get sent stuff all the fucking time.

01:07:39Guest:Yep.

01:07:40Guest:Yeah.

01:07:40Guest:And Barry, I mean, I'm thrown, thrown all over the place in that.

01:07:44Guest:Very physical.

01:07:45Marc:But, but I mean, do you just turn, you got to turn a lot of stuff down, right?

01:07:49Guest:Yeah.

01:07:51Guest:At this point, I'm really working for script and people, for really good scripts and to work with really good people so I can learn from them.

01:08:00Marc:But what about directors?

01:08:01Marc:I mean, it's hard for me to wrap my brain around as many movies you've done, but have there been directors that have changed?

01:08:08Guest:Well, I wanted to work with Clint Eastwood, so I got to do that.

01:08:11Guest:Jay Edgar.

01:08:11Guest:And Jay Edgar, which was amazing, really fun.

01:08:14Guest:And everything that people said it would be.

01:08:16Guest:He'd say.

01:08:17Marc:He shoots real quick, right?

01:08:18Guest:Shoots real quick.

01:08:20Guest:And I had people who had worked on other movies who were saying, just learn everything in a row because you might do it once.

01:08:26Guest:Oh, really?

01:08:27Guest:You might.

01:08:28Guest:And even the first was saying when we were shooting somebody, he said, yeah, we'll go up to this point and then we'll stop.

01:08:33Guest:And I said, no.

01:08:35Guest:Right.

01:08:36Guest:All through it.

01:08:36Guest:And he used that and that was it.

01:08:37Marc:And was he a nice guy?

01:08:39Marc:Super nice.

01:08:40Marc:What other directors have made an impact?

01:08:42Guest:I really liked working with Redford.

01:08:44Guest:To watch him work was phenomenal.

01:08:48Marc:Yeah.

01:08:49Marc:He's one of those guys that's sort of like those guys who are real movie stars.

01:08:54Guest:Yeah.

01:08:54Marc:And then they have to find a range within that.

01:08:57Marc:It's not an easy trick.

01:09:00Guest:He's the prettiest character actor around.

01:09:02Guest:I'll tell you that.

01:09:02Guest:Yeah.

01:09:03Marc:But he really can drop into things.

01:09:05Guest:Yeah.

01:09:06Guest:He's fantastic.

01:09:07Marc:Like, Brad Pitt's sort of the same way.

01:09:09Guest:Yeah, I feel the same way.

01:09:11Marc:Have you worked with that guy?

01:09:12Guest:No, I know Brad from, but I haven't worked with him.

01:09:16Guest:We talked about, you know, the tank movie that he did?

01:09:19Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:09:20Guest:That was basically my father's tank in World War II.

01:09:23Guest:Oh, really?

01:09:23Guest:Yeah, his tank.

01:09:24Guest:It was the third tank across the Remag and in Battle of the Bulge.

01:09:28Guest:Your dad's was?

01:09:29Guest:Yeah.

01:09:30Guest:Yeah.

01:09:30Marc:So he was like that guy, that generation, that guy.

01:09:33Marc:Did he have stories?

01:09:35Marc:A lot of those guys didn't talk much about the war.

01:09:36Guest:Oh, he never talked about it.

01:09:38Guest:Unless he had five drinks in him, he would never say anything about it.

01:09:41Guest:So we only got a couple of stories from him.

01:09:42Marc:Why do you think that is?

01:09:44Guest:Who wants to remember starving drinking potato vodka in the middle of Germany in 1945?

01:09:52Guest:What are you going to do?

01:09:52Marc:Yeah.

01:09:53Marc:Yeah.

01:09:53Marc:It's like it's almost like, yeah, that's I guess that was that generation's approach to PTSD.

01:10:00Marc:You just don't do it.

01:10:01Guest:Don't don't.

01:10:02Guest:Yeah.

01:10:03Guest:And I don't want to think about it.

01:10:05Guest:Right.

01:10:05Guest:I remember my mom going to she would always go to photo exhibits and we went to one that had depression era.

01:10:12Guest:And she went, I lived through that.

01:10:14Guest:I don't want to see that.

01:10:18Marc:Oh my God.

01:10:20Marc:Did he win medals?

01:10:22Marc:Did he get... Yeah, yeah.

01:10:23Guest:Yeah, he did.

01:10:25Marc:I can't imagine why.

01:10:26Marc:I don't have any direct experience with people.

01:10:28Guest:Well, the most interesting thing about him was that he didn't start there.

01:10:32Guest:He enlisted in 39 in the cavalry because there was still a cavalry.

01:10:40Guest:Horses?

01:10:40Guest:Horses.

01:10:41Guest:Trained his own horse.

01:10:42Guest:Uh-huh.

01:10:42Guest:And they disbanded it in 40, 41, I think, yeah.

01:10:45Guest:And he was a tank commander?

01:10:47Guest:And they threw him into a tank, which he hated so much.

01:10:50Marc:I can't even fucking imagine.

01:10:52Guest:I can't even think of it.

01:10:53Guest:Have you done any war movies where you had to get into that time?

01:10:58Guest:No, I always wanted to.

01:10:59Guest:Never got a chance to.

01:11:01Marc:Yeah, because like I just like if you really think about it empathetically, you know, what some of those guys have gone through, you know, in these machines.

01:11:07Marc:Oh, my God.

01:11:09Marc:I can't fucking imagine it.

01:11:10Marc:So what did you talk to Pitt about?

01:11:11Guest:Well, about I just said, what did you how did you feel in there?

01:11:14Guest:He said, I stayed in there all day.

01:11:16Guest:I loved it in there.

01:11:16Guest:He said I would eat lunch in there.

01:11:19Guest:He just wanted to absorb the whole thing because he's a really smart guy.

01:11:23Guest:He's a great actor.

01:11:24Guest:And he immerses himself in whatever he's doing.

01:11:26Guest:So he knows all about it.

01:11:28Marc:But he's sort of surprising with the kind of like in that one Coen Brothers where the burn after reading that that character was insanely funny that he played.

01:11:35Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:11:35Marc:And did you see the new Tarantino?

01:11:37Guest:It's this week.

01:11:39Guest:My wife and I are going this week.

01:11:40Marc:And have you worked with him?

01:11:41Marc:Tarantino, no.

01:11:43Marc:Would you like to?

01:11:44Guest:Oh, sure, why not?

01:11:45Marc:That'd be great.

01:11:46Marc:Who are the big hopes?

01:11:48Marc:Scorsese?

01:11:49Guest:I don't really have a hope, because it's all, for me, it's all script-driven.

01:11:54Guest:If you're a great director and you're doing a shitty script, I don't want it.

01:11:56Marc:I had Erwin Winkler in here, and I liked that movie, that Guilty by Suspicion.

01:12:02Guest:Oh yeah, I thought it was a good movie.

01:12:03Marc:And you did the other Blacklist movie too, huh?

01:12:06Marc:Trumbo?

01:12:06Guest:Trumbo, yeah, absolutely.

01:12:08Guest:Yeah, Jay Roach, he's great.

01:12:10Guest:I just did his Roger Ailes movie that is not out yet.

01:12:13Marc:Oh, that's right.

01:12:14Marc:I talked to somebody else who was in that.

01:12:15Guest:How's it feel?

01:12:16Guest:That was great, really good.

01:12:17Marc:Is it gonna deliver a punch?

01:12:19Marc:Is it a... I hope so.

01:12:21Marc:I'm gonna... Is it a comedic slant or is it straight up?

01:12:23Guest:No, no, no.

01:12:24Guest:It's a straight up and I'm hoping to see it fairly soon.

01:12:27Guest:I'm also seeing another movie I did, Seberg.

01:12:32Guest:With who?

01:12:33Guest:Gene Seberg with Kristen playing her and it was... That was a really nice experience.

01:12:40Marc:Yeah.

01:12:41Marc:And now, okay, so...

01:12:43Marc:Are you excited about the Emmy, the nomination?

01:12:46Guest:You know, the most fun you can have is the first two days when people you haven't heard from for a while say, you got an Emmy now.

01:12:53Guest:That's fantastic.

01:12:54Guest:But just the nom is the thing for me.

01:12:56Guest:The nomination is the win.

01:12:58Guest:And you've gotten it before?

01:12:59Guest:Oh, never.

01:13:00Guest:This is it.

01:13:01Guest:Never.

01:13:01Guest:No.

01:13:03Guest:Far away from it is possible.

01:13:05Guest:So that was fun for the first two days.

01:13:07Guest:And now we're doing this to promote it.

01:13:09Guest:Yeah.

01:13:10Guest:You know, but it's great.

01:13:14Guest:Yeah.

01:13:14Guest:And as Hater says, you know, maybe we'll get another season out of it.

01:13:18Guest:That's the best thing that could happen.

01:13:20Guest:That's right.

01:13:20Marc:Yeah.

01:13:21Marc:And what do you do for, like, have you kept any of those hobbies?

01:13:24Marc:Do you still shoot pictures?

01:13:26Marc:What's your thing that you do for fun?

01:13:28Guest:You got a boat?

01:13:29Guest:Like you do.

01:13:30Guest:I do a lot of album stuff.

01:13:32Guest:I love albums.

01:13:33Marc:Do you go out and buy them and stuff?

01:13:34Guest:I go out and buy them.

01:13:36Guest:I don't do the internet thing because I like to feel the product.

01:13:38Marc:Do you go to the guys in Highland Park over here that I go to, Gimme Gimme Records?

01:13:44Guest:Yeah, I haven't been there for a while.

01:13:45Guest:Whenever I go, I'm shooting somewhere, like I went to North Carolina, I shot something, I go to the local record stores there and hunt, and it's fun.

01:13:55Marc:It is fun.

01:13:55Marc:Have you been to Indiana?

01:13:57Marc:There's a couple places.

01:13:58Marc:The problem with the fucking record stores a lot of times is that because of the internet, they all know what they have.

01:14:03Marc:Yeah.

01:14:04Marc:So you have to be in an area where you have to find albums that are important to you that might not be collectible.

01:14:10Marc:It's not that I'm looking for deals, but it is kind of fun to find that thing.

01:14:13Guest:No, but you're not going to find a butcher cover in Tennessee for $5.

01:14:17Marc:No, not unless you find it in a garage somewhere.

01:14:20Marc:Exactly.

01:14:20Marc:But there's a good one in Indiana called Landlock Records in Bloomington.

01:14:24Marc:Okay.

01:14:24Marc:And they've just got, they've got the racks on top, but then underneath there's just hundreds.

01:14:28Marc:Yeah.

01:14:29Marc:And the records, like, you know, I'll buy a Skynyrd record.

01:14:31Marc:You know, like records that I like, but nobody gives a fuck about it.

01:14:34Guest:Yeah.

01:14:35Guest:Yeah.

01:14:35Guest:Or, you know...

01:14:37Guest:Do you know the Motors from 80, 81?

01:14:40Guest:I don't.

01:14:41Guest:Anyway.

01:14:42Guest:Good.

01:14:42Guest:So stuff like that.

01:14:43Guest:That means something to you.

01:14:44Guest:That means something to you.

01:14:45Guest:Yeah.

01:14:45Guest:That when you were in New York and you bought their 45 that came out and you went, oh, I want to have that.

01:14:51Marc:Who are your big bands?

01:14:52Marc:Do you love the Beatles?

01:14:53Yeah.

01:14:53Guest:Yeah, yeah, I've always been a huge Beatle fan, but all the whole British Invasion thing, the Who, the Kinks are probably, oh my God, they're my favorite.

01:15:01Marc:I just picked up that Muswell Hillbillies.

01:15:03Marc:Oh, what a great album.

01:15:04Marc:Oh, it's great.

01:15:04Marc:Great album.

01:15:05Marc:You can find those around.

01:15:06Marc:Yep.

01:15:06Marc:Probably 20, 30 bucks.

01:15:07Guest:Yeah, I still got my original.

01:15:09Guest:You do?

01:15:09Guest:Yes, sir.

01:15:10Marc:Well, it was great talking to you, man.

01:15:11Marc:Thanks, man.

01:15:11Guest:It was really fun.

01:15:12Marc:And I hope, well, I hope you win it.

01:15:14Marc:That'd be exciting.

01:15:14Guest:Yeah, it'd be nice.

01:15:15Guest:But, you know, Anthony Kerrigan, brilliant.

01:15:17Guest:Henry, brilliant.

01:15:18Guest:I don't care.

01:15:19Guest:It doesn't matter.

01:15:20Guest:And Tony Shalhoub is one of my heroes.

01:15:22Marc:I've talked to him.

01:15:23Marc:He's great.

01:15:24Guest:Yeah, and Alan.

01:15:25Guest:Is that who the other guys are?

01:15:26Guest:Yeah, they're like legends.

01:15:28Guest:So I don't hold any great hopes, but I was happy to be included.

01:15:32Marc:Did you own your own tux?

01:15:34Guest:I do own my own tux.

01:15:35Guest:That's good.

01:15:36Guest:I've got a nice tux that I can wear.

01:15:37Guest:I don't know.

01:15:38Marc:Yeah, that's nice.

01:15:39Marc:Maybe, you know, be nice to get that up on stage.

01:15:41Guest:Well, I mean, this is the greatest thing is that your wife gets a new dress.

01:15:45Guest:So there it is.

01:15:45Marc:A new dress.

01:15:46Marc:And, you know, it actually, I, you know, I did have the experience of, you know, going to one of these award shows because by some fluke, I was nominated for a SAG award.

01:15:54Marc:Awesome.

01:15:54Marc:But it was, it's nice to go to those things and see everybody.

01:15:58Guest:It is.

01:15:58Guest:It's so pleasant.

01:15:59Marc:It's like, you know, this is your community.

01:16:01Marc:Yeah.

01:16:01Marc:And you never see everybody.

01:16:03Guest:Never see anybody.

01:16:03Marc:And then you can be like, hey.

01:16:05Guest:Yeah, it was great.

01:16:06Marc:Well, have fun, man.

01:16:07Guest:Thanks, man.

01:16:07Guest:You too.

01:16:13Marc:that was me and steven root nice guy glad i got to talk to him about some things i love that guy's work um again he's nominated for an emmy for outstanding supporting actor in a comedy series for his role in hbo's barry and now some guitar i swear i'm gonna i'm gonna string up my strat and i'm gonna clean it up i'm just not there yet

01:17:14Thank you.

01:17:52Marc:Boomer lives.