Episode 1023 - David Letterman
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf which i do out of my home i generally do it out of the garage but to uh
Marc:to let them do the work that needs to be done in the garage.
Marc:It's now in my house, upstairs, in my house, right next to my bedroom, right down the hall from the bathroom.
Marc:It's in my house.
Marc:I don't know why I'm making a point of saying that, but I just wanted to make a point of saying that.
Marc:Today on the show, my guest in my house is David Letterman.
Marc:Now, I'm going to talk about that experience or how I felt leading up to that experience.
Marc:But first, I want to for some reason, I need to talk about John Lennon for a minute.
Marc:Last night, I guess this is mostly about, you know, reverence and people that have an effect on your life or people that you look up to.
Marc:I am talking primarily about artists.
Marc:Well, you know, look, we're all the same.
Marc:We are all people.
Marc:But there are amazing people and there are people that for whatever reason in your life, you know,
Marc:that you develop a relationship with in your heart, in your mind because of their work.
Marc:And I just had the weirdest experience last night because it was a documentary.
Marc:I watched this documentary on Netflix.
Marc:It was called Above Us Only Sky.
Marc:I didn't know what it was.
Marc:And you get to a point in life where you think you've seen all you need to see in documentary footage or you think you know all you need to know about certain people or maybe it's sort of like, meh.
Marc:But it was John Lennon.
Marc:And I was like, all right, you know, I've got I have time these days to reflect and think about my future.
Marc:And, you know, all the positives and negatives that come along with some sort of mental or emotional transition I'm experiencing.
Marc:And I just settle in to watch this documentary I know nothing about.
Marc:And it's about it's about John Lennon and Yoko Ono.
Marc:It's about the making of Imagine, but it's also about the relationship.
Marc:But the bottom line was, is there's a lot of footage of both of them and there's a lot of footage of John just being John.
Marc:I mean, he's got to be in his early 30s.
Marc:He's up in a mansion in England and they're just working on this album and the relationship with Yoko is sort of redefining him.
Marc:and changing his heart and changing his mind and making him see the world in a different way.
Marc:But I, I just look, I'm, I always, who doesn't like the fucking Beatles?
Marc:And, you know, I always knew that John was my Beatle, but watching this thing, I was just overwhelmed with this, this love of,
Marc:John Lennon that like it was always sort of there, but I've kind of let it go dormant.
Marc:I mean, you can't walk around just, you know, you know, actively loving John Lennon every day, but it just tapped into something that I'd sort of forgotten in myself that, you know, I had such a reverence for this guy.
Marc:I had such a deep love for John Lennon and to see all this footage that I'd never seen before of him just being himself among other people, you know, in dealing with other musicians and him
Marc:sort of working with Yoko and working with musicians.
Marc:There's one scene in the doc where a drifter shows up and he sort of empathetically deals with him.
Marc:But it was just John and the spirit of John.
Marc:And I was just so overwhelmed.
Marc:I was so overwhelmed to experience it.
Marc:It was fucking beautiful.
Marc:And I just I was able to just listen to John Lennon records for two days and just really get into the the sort of the pain and heart and elevation of this guy's art.
Marc:of john lennon maybe i'm just turning into an old man but i guess i had just forgotten how much i i love john lennon and just seeing him young and vital and and changing and and creating this amazing record and that amazing song with yoko was just uh just too much for me it just like it just kind of ripped me open and i let it happen
Marc:I let the love in folks.
Marc:And I was by myself and I was sitting there, but, but I let it happen.
Marc:And I was tearing up and just so excited because I, I guess I had not really, I'd forgotten just how much of an impact, you know, that guy had on me.
Marc:And, and this is the other thing too, about, about your heroes.
Marc:Yeah, obviously I'm not going to interview John Lennon.
Marc:So Letterman is here.
Marc:There's a couple things I need to tell you.
Marc:There's a couple things I need to sort of set this up.
Marc:I think I've been on his show four times, maybe five.
Marc:I should have probably done that research.
Marc:I told him I think it's four or five.
Marc:I think I did maybe four.
Marc:Maybe I did three stand-ups and one panel.
Marc:Four times in the 25 years that he was on the TV.
Marc:So doing The Letterman Show was really one of the biggest things in my life.
Marc:But I think...
Marc:Before I get into that, I think it's important to mention that, I mean, you might wonder, you know, if you're listening to this, why I didn't talk about The Late Show or hosting the Oscars or, you know, these big career moments that obviously I'm talking about like I've heard them before because most of us have heard them before.
Marc:I mean, he's done those interviews before.
Marc:And the thing about Letterman in my life, the personal journey to be on his show, but also more importantly, the history of
Marc:of this show, of WTF, really is sort of, you know, there's part of it.
Marc:There's a through line here around the comedy store, around the comedy store's impact on modern comedy, around the comedy store's impact on me, the players at the comedy store, both from the past and present and of my generation.
Marc:But Letterman was really one of the original comedy store guys in the 70s.
Marc:And I never hear him talk about that.
Marc:And I've talked to a few of his peers and there was I just wanted to talk to David Letterman as a comic.
Marc:And, you know, I wanted to talk to him as a person, but there was sort of a thrust to it that he was integral, not just as a host in terms of giving giving comedians opportunities, but as a comic himself.
Marc:So there's definitely a bit of a lean on on on that area.
Marc:And we talk about other things.
Marc:We talk about mistakes he's made, regrets, things that have moved him.
Marc:But but a lot of you know, this is a this is a comic to comic interview here.
Marc:And that was completely by design because I didn't have that much time with him.
Marc:And what do you want to catalog everything he's already said before somewhere else?
Marc:So, you know, we tried to I tried to get into the get into the groove of that.
Marc:And and I I got to tell you, man, I mean, you know, it took me a while to wrap my brain around the fact that he was coming to my house because you got to understand something.
Marc:You know, there's the comics of his generation, you know, talk about getting on Carson.
Marc:And how that was a game changer.
Marc:And from the beginning of my comedy career, you want to get on Letterman.
Marc:I used to watch Letterman when I was in college.
Marc:I was watching his late night show, you know, from the very beginning when I was in college.
Marc:And I used to see Richard Lewis on there, Jay Leno on there, George Miller on there, guys who he would let sit down.
Marc:I mean, watching Richard Lewis do panel.
Marc:on David Letterman's original show, the late night show, not the daytime show.
Marc:I was just like, that is the biggest honor that you could have in my mind as a comic is like you just hang out with Dave and you do some panel.
Marc:Conan let me do panel.
Marc:And it was all I wanted to be was I just wanted to be a panel guest and be the guy that just dropped by a few times a year to do his thing and talk with the host.
Marc:And Conan gave me that opportunity.
Marc:But there was always this thing where it's like I got to...
Marc:How do I get on Letterman?
Marc:You know, I used to see comics on there all the time and it was just so important.
Marc:There was such a reverence that I had for Dave.
Marc:He was my guy.
Marc:He was my late night guy.
Marc:I loved him and I loved, you know, the way he interacted with people and it changed over the years.
Marc:But when I was younger, a young comic is like, I just want to I just want to do Dave, man.
Marc:And boy, that first time, man, that first time I did David Letterman, that was like, you know, I look back on it and I watch it and I, you know, I didn't make the best.
Marc:clothing decisions i went out and bought a suit like the day before and it was much more shiny than i remembered it in the store and it's a pretty shiny suit that i'm wearing on my first letterman but i remember being so specific and you know wanting to be you know just i just wanting it to be perfect and i i worked that set and i told them like it was one of the first times i'm like i don't need don't give me a mic you know i see guys on these shows holding mics you don't have to you're in a theater and they got you you know they got a boom mic they got a you know usually have a lav on you
Marc:I just want to do it old school, you know, just stand out there, have my hands free.
Marc:No mic.
Marc:And it's cold in there.
Marc:And Biff is at the curtain and you go out.
Marc:And it was like it was it was a cathartic and monumental moment.
Marc:It was one of the biggest moments of my life to be on Dave Letterman for the first time.
Marc:And then after you do it once, you're like, when am I going to get on again?
Marc:And it was very sparse for me, you know.
Marc:But then I got to do panel with him.
Marc:Finally, like not long before he went off the air, I got to sit down with him.
Marc:And it was just like it was one of the greatest experiences of my life in show business was to just be able to walk out and sit and tell Letterman the Mel Brooks story.
Marc:Now, the weird thing is, is that, you know, he's coming over.
Marc:He came over the other day and I could not I couldn't even imagine it.
Marc:that I'd had him in such a place in my brain and in my career.
Marc:Like, I didn't think that he would know me or anything, but it's almost like I didn't feel worthy
Marc:For him to come over that David Letterman like this is a guy that your whole life is this mysterious character who has this amazing show, who's truly a funny man and a great broadcaster and a great host.
Marc:But you had him in this place as a comic in your mind.
Marc:Like, you know, you talked about him like he was almost a mythological creature.
Marc:Like, you know, like no one really knew him or anything.
Marc:You're just going to do his show.
Marc:And that was what you worked for.
Marc:And he was coming to my house.
Marc:It was weird.
Marc:It was really a weird sort of like this is this is crazy.
Marc:I mean, President Obama coming to my old house, that was crazy.
Marc:But David Letterman coming over was like, this just doesn't seem right.
Marc:I mean, this is not how life goes that David Letterman's coming to my house.
Marc:what are you kidding me?
Marc:But he did, he came over to my house.
Marc:So okay, you ready for me and Dave?
Marc:Here's the other thing I want you to know about Dave is that Dave is a man
Marc:who has had great success in his life.
Marc:He's had some pain in his life.
Marc:He's made mistakes in his life.
Marc:He has regrets.
Marc:And he's definitely owning who he is and has a willingness to change.
Marc:And he's tried to own his mistakes.
Marc:And he's he's he's a slightly heavy hearted guy, but he's also a humble dude.
Marc:And and I think, you know, it just that's the one thing that was amazing.
Marc:You know, once he did finally come over, I'm like, this is Dave, man.
Marc:He's you know, he's he's a little softer than than he used to be.
Marc:And he seems a little more humble.
Marc:I think maybe a little happier, very willing to be open.
Marc:He seems much more vulnerable, certainly, than he was on TV in real life.
Marc:And he seems contrite about the mistakes he's made and also willing to change.
Marc:And I think he speaks to that.
Marc:You watch his show, his new show, season two of My Next Guest Needs No Introduction with David Letterman.
Marc:That launches on Netflix this Friday, May 31st.
Marc:But if you watch the first season, he's definitely a guy trying to reach out, trying to
Marc:make right his wrongs, trying to own them, but also still interested in people, probably more interested in people now than he ever has been and certainly willing to talk and show himself a little more.
Marc:So I got him at a good time.
Marc:But as you'll hear, you know, once he got here, we did all right.
Marc:You know, he came upstairs and and it was I was talking to a comedian, David Letterman, and and and I'm sharing it with you now.
Guest:Well, it's good to see you, Dave.
Guest:Good to see you.
Guest:And what I was going to say was I've known about you and the podcast actually before I knew about podcasts.
Guest:And I am under the impression and reinforced many ways, many times.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:that you are kind of the breakthrough podcast pioneer.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I'm guilty.
Guest:Well, you know, gosh, good for you.
Guest:This is, I mean, what a great forum, what a great format.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now, so the other night I said, I better listen to this because I had not listened to a podcast in my life.
Guest:I don't know how to get them.
Marc:Neither does my dad.
Marc:Well, yes, that's about right.
Marc:You're not that much older than me, but he hasn't listened to one yet.
Marc:He hasn't listened to one of the thousand episodes.
Marc:It might be more personal, but what were you saying?
Marc:So you listen to one?
Marc:How old's your father?
Guest:80.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Well, all right.
Guest:He and I are in the same dark space of ignorance.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Anyway, so I listened to Angelica Houston.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:You and Angelica Houston.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now, I know Angelica Houston only because I think she was a guest on the show a few times.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know of her, I guess her father is John.
Guest:John, sure.
Guest:And there's Walter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that's how I know of her, and I know that she was romantically involved with Jack Nicholson.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And so I thought, well, okay, this may not have been one that I would have picked as, oh, come on in, kids.
Guest:It's Angelica Houston.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I started listening to it, and I was dumbstruck because it was so darn interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I thought, it's 50-50.
Guest:There's only two choices for why this is interesting, and I voted for you.
Guest:Thanks, man.
Guest:Yeah, it was cool.
Marc:Are you okay with this?
Marc:Yeah, I'm good.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, you know, I was a little nervous.
Marc:You know, I watched some of your show, The Long Form Show.
Marc:I was nervous because, you know, I spent about half of my life, you know, just trying to get on your show.
Yeah.
Marc:And the idea that you were coming to my house, I was like, I don't think this is right somehow.
Marc:He can't just come over.
Guest:I can't do it.
Guest:This is a real kick for me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And how many times were you on the show?
Marc:I think I did stand up three times and I didn't panel it towards the end there.
Marc:I told the story.
Marc:You know, we sat when I told you the Mel Brooks, Carl Reiner story.
Marc:But yeah, I did stand up three times.
Marc:The first time I bought a shiny suit that I look back looking back on it.
Marc:I'm not not proud of it.
Marc:I don't know why it was shiny, but it was.
Marc:And then I think the second time I sat down briefly after the set and you leaned in and said, you can make that stuff work on the road.
Guest:Now, what was the point of that?
Guest:Was it somehow to be encouraging, discouraging?
Guest:Was it sarcasm?
Guest:How did I take it?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I thought that meant that you thought the jokes were smart and that they would probably... Oh, okay.
Guest:Let's stop right there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I was wrong.
Guest:No, I think you were right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And good.
Guest:I'm glad you didn't take it as an insult.
Marc:No, I did not.
Guest:Good.
Marc:And it's so... But I watched like two minutes of your show at the beginning.
Marc:I watched the whole Kanye episode.
Marc:But then at the very beginning, I noticed something.
Marc:Because I still work at the comedy store, right?
Marc:I was there last night, and I had an old man moment.
Marc:I was supposed to bring up Ron White, and he stepped up because he was doing a drop-by, and I looked at him, and I did not know his name for about three seconds.
Marc:It was terribly embarrassing.
Guest:Get used to it.
Marc:Did that happen when you know people?
Guest:It happens to me all the time.
Guest:And what I do and the people that I worked with four years on the show, I would just invent a name that I thought reminded me of what the actual name sounded like.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And then it would become charades.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay, let's see.
Guest:Mona Farbender.
Guest:Mona Farbender.
Guest:Is it Jackie?
Guest:Oh, no, Kathy Gifford.
Guest:Yes, it's Kathy Gifford.
Guest:But you said Mona Farbender.
Guest:Well, I couldn't remember Kathy Gifford.
Marc:That was my reminder word.
Marc:But I just I had a moment when I'm watching you and you just you said you were scared, you know, to interview him.
Marc:But then when you walked out, the moment is really odd that I focused in on.
Marc:It was just how you grab the mic out of the stand.
Marc:And I was like, it's so second nature when you're a stand-up to pull the mic out.
Marc:And then when you put it back in, I'm like, see that?
Marc:He knows how to do that.
Guest:When I was doing the show, toward the end of the show, my favorite part of it, and it makes perfect sense if you think about how long I had done it,
Guest:My favorite part of it was talking to the audience.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I had one of those tie microphones that everybody wears, and I said, I don't want to do the warm-up with that.
Guest:I want to have a hand microphone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The same thing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it's the stand, and you can adjust it, and you can move it, and you can pull it out.
Guest:It's like home, right?
Guest:And you can lean onto it.
Guest:You can lean into it.
Guest:You can pick it up and slam it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And this goes back to 1975.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:75, right?
Guest:That's right.
Marc:I mean, because I was thinking about that, like just that moment of grabbing the stand.
Marc:And I'm like, I'm still there.
Marc:You know, I got to show you something.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:This might weird you out.
Marc:I seem to be alone now.
Marc:I don't know why I have this, but I can tell you how I got it.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But for some reason, it means a lot to me.
Guest:This is the driver's license for, oh my gosh.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Well, a crime has been committed here.
Guest:This is Mitzi Shore's driver's license.
Guest:It is, man.
Guest:Mark, how did you, I mean, first of all, why were you rifling through her purse?
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Here's the thing, you know, binder, Mike.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And Peter Short kind of like I interviewed Binder here.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And he was like, I want to talk about the comedy story.
Marc:And then I started to say, how could you not want to?
Marc:This is that's where you come from.
Marc:And then he started talking about it.
Marc:And then it kind of got into his brain.
Marc:And then Peter Short reeled him in to make a documentary about the place.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He reached out to you.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I think I'm actually visiting with him tomorrow.
Marc:Great.
Marc:So he wanted me to be there when he did a bunch of footage in Mitzi's office and they were going to go through some stuff.
Marc:He had permission and he wanted me to be the guy to be in there with him.
Marc:And as I was walking out, this driver's license was on the floor.
Marc:And I'm like, I think I have to have that.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:It feels a little weird and a little wrong, but- No, no.
Guest:Now with that explanation, it feels just right.
Guest:And Sammy Shore died.
Guest:Just passed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you know him though?
Guest:I must have met him, but by the time I came to California, he was out of that business.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not out of comedy, but out of the comedy store business.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You lost the store to Mitzi.
Marc:See, like for me, didn't this give you the chills a little bit?
Guest:Yes, absolutely.
Guest:First of all, she's very young looking in that.
Guest:And I only remember her.
Guest:She was stricken after this time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't remember her looking that hardy.
Guest:She reminds me of when I was younger.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you came here in 75.
Guest:75, yeah, May of 75.
Marc:And before that, you hadn't done comedy, but you'd done broadcasting.
Guest:A lot of broadcasting and television and radio.
Guest:And I used to have to, when you're doing local broadcasting, they would like you to go out and do things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Remotes.
Guest:Well, no, not so much remotes, but just appearances.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it used to petrify me to have to go out and be in front of audiences.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:So I said to myself, well, let's don't be stupid about this.
Guest:Let's don't do that.
Guest:So I stopped doing it.
Guest:And then when I moved to California, I realized I am now about to go back into the very thing that scared me to death, which was trying to make strangers laugh.
Marc:But when you started out, I mean, you grew up in Indiana.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And your folks were not in show business.
Marc:No.
Marc:What'd your dad do?
Marc:He owned a flower shop.
Marc:That's nice.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:How could that be bad?
Guest:It was good, except that he was not a good businessman.
Guest:His first choice in life would have been to be in entertainment.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He could play the piano very well, and he was funny.
Guest:And I think he ended up in the wrong lane.
Guest:And I think you turned on him 10 years before he died.
Guest:So that was too bad.
Guest:He got sad or angry about the flower shop?
Guest:Drunk.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, he was an alcoholic.
Guest:And I always felt...
Guest:I don't know your situation with your parents, but my father could have easily done what I have done.
Marc:You're right.
Guest:And I wish he had.
Marc:You think it would have made him happier?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes, I do.
Marc:Well, it's sort of sad, though, if he had a flower shop and he was miserable.
Marc:I just had the thought of...
Guest:But you know what it was?
Guest:Every opportunity, he turned into church functions.
Guest:He would be the emcee.
Guest:And later when he went into AA, he was in heaven because he had an audience.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That's a good room.
Marc:I'm in it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he loved that.
Guest:He loved being the center of attention and would tell jokes.
Guest:And he invited me to go to a meeting once after he entered the program.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I did.
Guest:And he was running the show.
Guest:And I had never seen so many people smoking so much and drinking so much coffee.
Guest:Back when you could do that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How old were you then?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I was 25, I suppose.
Marc:Oh, so he got sober.
Marc:He lived sober for a while?
Guest:For a while, yeah.
Guest:Continued to smoke and then died when he was 57.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:Mid to late 20s.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:That's young.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Tell me about your family.
Marc:Well, my mom, my dad is kind of a little bipolar, and my mom sort of- What did he do, though, when he was- He's around.
Marc:He's a surgeon.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Orthopedic.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When did he stop doing that?
Marc:He kind of got pushed out.
Yeah.
Marc:He retired not to.
Marc:It's probably been about 15, 20 years.
Marc:But they're very focused, self-involved, megalomaniacal people.
Marc:But I always found them charismatic and entertaining.
Guest:Well, that's interesting.
Guest:I found my, yeah, charismatic and entertaining.
Marc:Me too.
Marc:But the other side of it is bad.
Marc:There's the charismatic entertainment part, but then there's the terrifying part at home.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:Sometimes.
Marc:And your mom, what was she up to?
Marc:She's still around, too.
Marc:She focuses on maintaining her weight.
Marc:And she was a painter for a while and other things.
Marc:But now she's down in Florida, and she's with another weird old man.
Guest:And siblings?
Marc:Yeah, I got a little brother.
Marc:You?
Guest:Yeah, two girls, two sisters, younger, older.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I'm right in the middle, yeah.
Guest:Are they both still around?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:So what do they do?
Guest:One was in the newspaper business for most of her life, worked at the St.
Guest:Petersburg Times, and the other one raised three kids.
Guest:And they're all grown?
Guest:Yep, everybody's all grown.
Guest:And you're just like Uncle Dave?
Guest:I am.
Guest:No, I'm not Uncle Dave.
Guest:I'm just, I don't know.
Guest:You don't have a relationship with them?
Guest:Legally, there's a relationship, yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:I mean, they're in Florida and Indiana, and I'm in New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And your mom, everybody knows, because she was on the show so much.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But it's sort of interesting, though.
Marc:Now, was it volatile at home with the alcoholism?
Guest:The volatility was my mother's reaction to my father's behavior.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:He wasn't volatile.
Guest:No.
Guest:He was not a mean drunk.
Guest:He was not an angry drunk.
Guest:Nobody knew he was a drunk.
Marc:He was a professional drunk.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We then discovered, I remember the day my mother came to see me and she said, I don't know, I think I may have to divorce your father.
Guest:And she was taciturn and soft-spoken.
Guest:And so this was a bombshell.
Guest:And the next question is, really?
Guest:Is there a problem?
Guest:And she said, well, he's an alcoholic.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And then we started looking at the evidence.
Guest:Sure enough, she was right.
Guest:And within a month, two guys show up at the house, and they're from AA, and bang, he was in.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Yeah, he was ready to go.
Guest:He just wanted to be a part of something.
Guest:Get out of the house, get out of the shop.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Have some new friends.
Guest:Tell some jokes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that was good.
Guest:And then I don't think he lived much longer than that.
Guest:But it was one of those deals.
Guest:He had a series of heart attacks in his life.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:And in those days...
Guest:They let him smoke in the hospital.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Recovering from the heart attack.
Marc:Well, the doctor said it was good for you, right?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:And what they said was to get him off cigarettes now, the shock might kill him.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then he continued to smoke the rest of his life.
Guest:And finally, it caught up with him.
Guest:He had another heart attack?
Guest:Yep.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Apparently, you got a little bit of the heart disease from him.
Guest:It's coronary artery disease, yeah.
Guest:That's what he had.
Guest:I assume so.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Alcoholism, did you get that?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You did?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When did you start drinking?
Marc:When I was about 12.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And you were pretty drunk for-
Guest:Stayed drunk right through high school, college, easy.
Guest:And then after college, you begin to notice, well, how come everybody isn't still drunk?
Guest:Where's everyone going?
Guest:I continued to drink until I was 34, and I had a conversation.
Guest:Here was the deal.
Guest:I just love this because I think every alcoholic has gone through this.
Guest:It's annual checkup time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the doctor is poking around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jeez, your liver is swollen.
Guest:Do you drink quite a lot?
Guest:Oh, I'll have a beer or two.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so.
Guest:Nothing crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I went back again.
Guest:Same thing.
Guest:And I thought, you know what?
Guest:If my liver is swollen.
Guest:Man.
Guest:And then I tried to quit.
Guest:And I couldn't quit.
Guest:And I couldn't quit.
Guest:And I couldn't quit.
Guest:And couldn't quit.
Guest:So one day I just said to myself, you're going to kill yourself.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I stopped.
Marc:Was that in Los Angeles?
Guest:New York.
Marc:Oh, it was in New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I had a TV show at the time, and I said, drunk people don't succeed.
Guest:Which show?
Guest:The morning show?
Guest:No, the late show.
Guest:The NBC late show, yeah.
Marc:So you drank all the way through the comedy and stuff at the beginning.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:But I would go home from the comedy store and drink by myself.
Yeah.
Marc:Oh, glamorous.
Guest:Well, is there anything more glamorous than being a drunk?
Marc:No.
Marc:Well, I mean, sometimes you can get away with it if you're surrounded by other people that are fucked up.
Marc:Yeah, that's true.
Marc:So in terms of like the show business experience that you got in Indiana, I mean, what compelled you to decide to pursue comedy?
Marc:I mean, I know you've probably talked about this, but I mean, you were married at the time, right?
Marc:Right.
Guest:It was easy because you would watch The Tonight Show every night, and two times a week or so, there would be a new comedian on.
Guest:And after a while, this began to hurt my feelings.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, I thought, wait a minute.
Guest:They haven't called me, even though I'm in Indiana.
Marc:But you thought that way, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's so funny you say that because I remember many years ago when I was middling for some guy, you know, somewhere in like the south.
Marc:And he's like, yeah, I really want to get on Letterman, but they just don't reach out.
Marc:And I'm like, I don't think it works like that.
Guest:Well, I will say that we had some weaknesses in the area of comic bookings in our run.
Guest:In general?
Yeah.
Guest:Which show?
Marc:I mean, you always seem to see comics on there.
Guest:Yeah, but I know there were a lot of people that wanted on that should have been on and didn't get on.
Guest:And I'm not quite sure what broke down there.
Guest:But then again, it was hard to get on The Tonight Show with Johnny.
Guest:So show business is unfair.
Guest:It's terrible.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's a hell of a life.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:So you'd see these comics and you were like, you know, I'm better than them, basically?
Guest:No, it wasn't that I was better than them.
Guest:I just thought, well, I'll bet I could do that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so the idea was you go to California, get on The Tonight Show, and your life will be different.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's what I did.
Marc:But when you got to the store, because it seems to me that over the course of your entire career that the guys that would come on
Marc:And I was a doorman at the store in 86, like in 87.
Marc:And I got all fucked up on drugs with Kenison and left.
Marc:And then it took me a few years to get sober.
Guest:I'm sure you've covered this.
Guest:When you say drugs, what category?
Guest:Coke and booze, the classics, the 80s.
Marc:You remember.
Marc:But it was a bit much for me.
Marc:It took me a few years to get sober after that.
Marc:But I did work the door.
Marc:And I used to see the guys.
Marc:And how did you do that?
Yeah.
Marc:I went to eventually, after fits and starts, just locked in with the program.
Marc:I went to AA, and I'd still go.
Marc:I'd talk in public about it.
Marc:I think it helps people.
Guest:I kind of figured it out.
Guest:I heard a report years ago on the BBC that debunked the whole prospect of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, you know, they do that every few years.
Marc:But the truth of the matter is the success rate has never been great.
Guest:There's no other solution.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Guest:The number of people that join in June a year later is like three quarters gone.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, but it's still what else is there?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So even if those numbers don't seem great to a non-alcoholic person, you know, it might just throw the switch.
Marc:You might not stay in, but you might not drink again.
Marc:And maybe you do stay in and you work that system and it works for you, the spiritual system.
Marc:But but it's not like there's like, don't do that.
Marc:There's this.
Marc:There isn't anything else.
Guest:Well, I understand.
Guest:I certainly worked for my father.
Guest:And I understand the comfort of being with other people who are likewise impaired.
Marc:Yeah, there's that.
Marc:And there's also there's a process through which you can sort of move away from pathological self-centeredness.
Marc:That's the trick.
Marc:you know, doing service.
Marc:And then there's also the amends process.
Marc:A lot of alcoholics carry a lot of guilt, a lot of baggage, made a lot of mistakes.
Marc:And they, you know, they succumb to the shame of that.
Marc:And it's one of the reasons that they drink again.
Marc:So there is a process to which you can make appropriate amends with people and try to take responsibility for your actions.
Guest:And where in this horizon do we find just self-medication hiding a bigger problem?
Marc:Well, yeah, they they're there.
Marc:I think within the literature, they say, look, you know, you know, you can go to go to a shrink if you need if you need other help.
Marc:Get out of the help.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Why is that what you feel?
Marc:It was your trip.
Guest:I feel yes.
Guest:I feel like I was because I just felt better as a person when I was drunk.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You feel more comfortable.
Guest:You feel whole.
Guest:Confident.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like people like you.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:You might even like them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're more fun.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then the next day.
Guest:Not good.
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:You weren't so fun.
Marc:Well, congratulations.
Marc:Well, thanks.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm coming up on like 20 years.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I guess what I was going to say was that it just seems to me that a lot of the cats that you had on throughout the entire run of all your shows were people that you met when you got to L.A.
Guest:That's correct.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They seem to be your oldest friends were those bonds you made at that that that dark castle on Sunset.
Marc:Like Mule Deer, George Miller, Witherspoon, Lewis, Jay for a while, right?
Guest:Well, these were all the first people I met when I got there.
Guest:Dreeson?
Guest:Tom Dreeson.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, I loved having them on.
Guest:And sometimes maybe they weren't...
Marc:i don't know so it was just fun having them on well yeah because like you know there's something about the the brotherhood of comedians where you know you go through that part of your life and you know you can really talk about anything and you go through some weird stuff together and it's like it's very impactful and that's why i was always sort of fascinated with that time that you were at the store because it was before my time and it's sort of a mythical time and i've had i've had jimmy walker on this show
Marc:And I've had Binder on this show from that era.
Marc:And I just saw Dreesen not long ago.
Marc:But it just seemed like it was a completely new world.
Marc:I mean, when you came into the comedy store, I mean, was it electric?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It was completely exciting and completely different from anything culturally or socially I had been a part of in Indiana.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That could have been anything, though.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it's a pretty low bar.
Guest:No, I didn't mean that.
Guest:Yeah, but in my group, and you refer to it as a class, and I guess I was just right before you, because I think I left in the late 70s to go to New York, and then that got canceled and came back.
Guest:So we might have overlapped a bit.
Guest:I was there in 87.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I was gone again by then.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I think it was you guys, and then there was the, like, Seinfeld's probably the next guys after you, right?
Guest:The guys I, the first guy I met was Tom Dreesen, and I became friends with him.
Guest:Same with George Miller.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jeff Altman, Gary Muldeer, Johnny Dark.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Johnny Dark.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I used to see them.
Guest:And Leno.
Guest:And then right after that, Robin Williams came in.
Guest:So he was kind of like the kid that starts at school the second semester.
Marc:And was Binder there?
Guest:Binder was there.
Guest:He was like 16 when he was there.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:Yes, it is crazy.
Marc:And so when Robin came, when he showed up, everybody must have been like, holy shit.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:What is this?
Guest:That's right.
Guest:It was...
Guest:You know, in the NFL, there will be a quarterback who doesn't stand in the pocket and just throw passes and hand off.
Guest:There's a quarterback who will run sideline to sideline, run to the opposite end zone, and then throw an 80-yard touchdown pass.
Guest:And everybody says, wow, that's the future of being an NFL quarterback.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We thought that about Robin.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And George and I used to watch him work, and we just both thought together and discussed it.
Guest:We're screwed.
Guest:I'll go back to Indiana.
Guest:I can't do that.
Guest:But why do we think we have to?
Guest:That's the weird thing about comics.
Guest:It's like, well, comedy's over.
Guest:This kid's here.
Guest:Well, because he was so effective.
Guest:And so effortlessly effective.
Guest:And the place would explode and you couldn't follow him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was... Well, that's what it comes down to.
Guest:Well, that's what you want to do.
Guest:That's what I want to do.
Guest:I never did that.
Guest:Could you get an audience to explode and blow the roof off the place?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, I never could.
Guest:And I guess I told myself, well, that's not...
Guest:the kind of comedy i want to do i don't want to do the funny kind of comedy of course that's what you got to tell yourself you know you can find fault or find like you know like well that's not really what i'm aiming for i'm exactly that thoughtful you know it's more about the structure of the and then it was i i suppose everybody goes through this we would stand in the back and watch various people yeah
Guest:And if it was a guy or a woman that we didn't think was too funny, we would think, oh, yeah, you'll laugh at them, but you won't laugh at me.
Guest:Well, then there's something wrong with you people.
Marc:Yeah, everybody.
Marc:Yeah, there's something wrong with every audience.
Marc:But I think really when it comes down to that, it's just on a practical level, it just becomes like, I don't want to go on after that.
Marc:I just don't.
Marc:You know, that's the worst thing to have to start from scratch is that vacuum of disappointment.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, that was me nightly.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:And then the funniest one.
Guest:And it's interesting because you show up and you see a week's worth of comics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you think, OK, I kind of know who's here.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then people start coming in off the road.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So the lineup changes altogether.
Guest:And you thought, oh, god, no.
Guest:Now I've got this other funny group of people I didn't know about.
Guest:And that keeps happening.
Guest:And after about six months,
Guest:likely you've seen everybody who's working.
Guest:Yeah, that's right.
Guest:And Jay was always the funniest.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Well, without question.
Marc:But it seems to me that like watching him at that time, at least you could have like learned something about joke writing, right?
Guest:Well, it was – in Jay's case, it was not so much joke writing as it was.
Guest:His attitude was hilarious.
Guest:And so whether he had a joke or not, it was funny.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And –
Guest:people loved him.
Guest:And he was, whenever Jay would work, we would all gather in the back because it was, uh, and, and then he was, he was fun to heckle because he, he didn't mind.
Guest:No, he didn't like to be heckled because he, you know, he was, he was working on stuff and we were just getting in his way.
Marc:Wasn't it so fun hanging out and back there?
Guest:It was the best.
Guest:You know, I don't want to oversell it, but I felt so lucky because of these men and women that Elaine Boosler was part of that group and Jimmy Walker.
Guest:And then if you were lucky, Freddie Prinze would show up.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:I wish I had seen him live.
Guest:Well, he was great, and he was a kid.
Guest:He was 19 or 20, and people just would go crazy for Freddie.
Guest:And then he'd go, he'd leave, and then everything had to settle down, and maybe there'd be an intermission.
Guest:And then every now and then Richard Pryor would come in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was, oh, my God, it's Jesus Christ has come to do a set.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I had to follow him one night, which, I mean, impossible.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you know it's impossible, so then it becomes funny.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:You can make light of it.
Guest:There used to be an audience.
Guest:Richard said goodnight, and so did the audience.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so, ladies and gentlemen, the comedy of Mr. Dave Letterman.
Guest:Hi.
Guest:As people were walking out, it was just the worst.
Guest:Yeah, but it was great.
Guest:It was a fun group of people to spend your time with.
Guest:And I would say to myself periodically, I get to spend this time regularly with the funniest people in America.
Guest:And they were.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:and they were yeah and it's it's just so like i i i romanticize that era because like i when i was a doorman there you go you walk into that place and there's a structure and there's a system and there's a history and there's this queen you know that's right where you just walked around terrified you know all the time that like you know didn't want to piss her off you didn't even want to like meet her eye right yeah and and you didn't want her to see you work never no
Marc:Never.
Marc:When I auditioned at that place, she goes, you're funny.
Marc:You should wear a scarf.
Marc:I don't even know what that means, but I wore a scarf for a few weeks.
Guest:God bless Mitzi.
Guest:And there was such enmity toward the end of my time there that I regret, but I didn't have anything to do with, nor did not.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Between you two?
Guest:Between the group of people that walked a picket line and the group of people that did not.
Guest:And as you get older, you think, was there a point to that?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Was it worth the enmity?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:There's still a pretty, like, you know, if I work the main room a few times a month, there's still a percentage deal on there from then.
Marc:So there are definitely people that, like, you know, I don't know what Argus would do if he wasn't getting paid still.
Guest:Well, that's interesting that there are still some people there that were there when I was there.
Guest:Argus came shortly after I came.
Marc:Well, Argus is the only one, really.
Guest:Well, Binder showed up shortly after I got there, too.
Marc:Well, he doesn't really work there anymore.
Guest:Oh, no, he's a director.
Marc:Right, he's a director.
Marc:And most of the guys, like in the 80s, there were still some around.
Marc:And then the booking changed hands and stuff.
Marc:But I used to see Altman.
Marc:I used to see all those cats.
Marc:And now I don't know what they do, Barry Diamond sort of.
Marc:Jack Perdue.
Marc:They're mad that they can't get spots there, but the whole scene changes, and it's sort of sad.
Marc:It's a difficult position to be in.
Guest:Theoretically, you can go there and do stuff, but you have to move on.
Guest:You can't make that your life, although, as you point out, some have.
Marc:Well, I don't know if they have a choice after a certain point.
Marc:It's a weird thing that, and I don't know if this happened to you, that you learn if you're smart that if you're funny and you can write jokes, there's a lot of things you can apply that to in show business.
Marc:But if you want to put it all in the one basket, in the comic basket, I mean, there's only 10 guys at any given time that are going to make a good living.
Marc:It's a hell of a gamble.
Marc:And I mean, I took it, and somehow or another...
Marc:things worked out because i set some mics up in my garage when i was 45 but but there are definitely guys that didn't you know we're not known for planning ahead i mean did you when you started did your career did you know how you wanted to handle your talent from the beginning well talent uh let's just uh strike that from the record yeah but i i had the plan the plan the plan was right in front of you but the but it wasn't to be a stand-up on the road for the rest
Guest:No, no, I couldn't do that.
Guest:I don't have that gene.
Guest:Some people do.
Guest:Leno, yes.
Guest:Jerry Seinfeld, yes.
Guest:Tom Dreesen, yes.
Guest:And Tom Dreesen is the one to thank in the strike circumstance.
Guest:And he is quite, he's the historian.
Guest:I got to get him in here.
Guest:I just ran into him.
Guest:I said I'd call him.
Marc:I'm going to call him.
Marc:Yeah, I'm having dinner with him tonight.
Marc:Well, you tell him, I tell him I'm going to call him.
Marc:I got the card.
Marc:Yeah, I feel bad.
Marc:Don't feel bad.
Marc:But he was the guy – well, he was sort of like – was he originally a Chicago guy?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And he had some union background?
Marc:Or was that Mark Lone now?
Marc:Somebody had – Union background.
Guest:I don't know about that.
Guest:The strike is – it's interesting to me that it hasn't evaporated with time because if you get men and women involved in it –
Guest:of the day, they're still pretty toxic about it.
Marc:It's interesting, huh?
Marc:Well, from your point of view, because I actually texted Peter and told him I was going to talk to you, and if he had anything interesting on his mind about his memory of you, he said, well, ask him about when Mitzi used to have him drive me and Polly to Little League in his red pickup truck.
Guest:Yeah, that didn't happen.
Guest:It didn't.
Guest:I've also been told that I babysat for Mitzi's kids.
Guest:I have no memory of that either.
Guest:Now, it may be my memory and maybe it did happen, but I don't remember it because a lot of stuff, you know, you get to be this age.
Guest:But, I mean, if that did happen, it was the least exciting part of being there.
Guest:I'm telling you...
Guest:To know that you got to go there every night was pretty cool.
Marc:But sometimes you had to do the weird jobs where I did.
Marc:You had to go pick up a chicken salad, and you're like, oh, sure, Mitzi.
Marc:You really try to stay out of her way because you don't know what you'll be doing.
Marc:You don't know who you're going to be driving.
Marc:I didn't.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I think she...
Marc:Had a house just up the hill or something?
Marc:Crest Hill.
Marc:I used to live in it.
Marc:And then she had one over on Doheny.
Marc:But nonetheless, but he did bring up the fact, and I think that it's something you're alluding to, that there was a shift in the relationship she had with a lot of comics after the strike.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And she called me and she said, I heard that you're going to go out on strike.
Guest:And I said, yes, I am.
Guest:And she was very upset because she had been very nice to me, had been, you know, gave me much experience that I could not have had anywhere else.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But when it came down to it, I thought the people that want to be paid for this and feel that certain folks doing it, not certain folks, anybody doing it needs to be paid.
Guest:These were all my friends.
Guest:So in support of my friends, what kind of a friend am I if I don't support them on this cause?
Guest:And I did.
Guest:And it didn't seem like much at the time, but people haven't outlived it.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Like who?
Guest:Well, Tom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's still a good topic with Tom.
Guest:He did his first set there in like 20 years the other day.
Guest:For the documentary.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he said it was difficult, but, you know.
Guest:To go back.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can't take everything with you as you move through life.
Marc:No, I guess that's clear.
Marc:And the stuff that you do carry, if it's weighing on your heart, you've got to somehow let it go or process it or make the apology, whatever the hell you've got to do, right?
Guest:Right, I think so.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the fact that you mentioned that you're getting remuneration for a gig in the main room.
Guest:Sure, yeah, there's still a deal.
Guest:Then there you go.
Guest:That's fantastic.
Guest:There's still a door deal there.
Guest:Yeah, that's a great legacy for Tom and everybody else who was on the show.
Marc:Yeah, no, it's great.
Marc:It's the surprise checks, you know what I mean?
Marc:Because it's still a door deal on a certain level.
Marc:There's still a cut.
Guest:Tom used to say when we would be killing time waiting to go on that he said, right now in this country, there are only 200 professional comedians, 200.
Guest:And I think if you would ask him now, that would probably be in the thousands.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I don't know what professional means.
Marc:Does that mean you make money doing it or you just say you are one?
Marc:I think it's the money.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But like by the time the strike happened, you were already in your guest hosting the Tonight Show, right?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And Johnny had.
Marc:Now, this is a guy that you watched when you were a kid and, you know, obviously a mentor, you know, in real life after a certain point.
Marc:But did you have those aspirations to be that guy?
Guest:Yes, you did.
Guest:Well, not to be that guy, but I knew that whatever I could do was limited to sitting behind a desk and making fun of people.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:When you did stand-up, though, was it crowd work or did you do jokes?
Guest:It turned out to be quite a lot of crowd work.
Guest:Because I would try and try and try.
Guest:And I got a pretty tight 20 minutes in the comedy store.
Guest:You take it anywhere else, no thank you.
Guest:So it's crowd work.
Marc:Was it cutting or was it like Jimmy Brogan style?
Marc:Were you just pleasant?
Guest:It was, you know, I'm trying to save my life here, ladies and gentlemen.
Marc:Help me out.
Marc:Throw me a line.
Guest:And I just couldn't.
Guest:I mean, the worst part of it was in Denver.
Guest:It was the bicentennial.
Guest:So it's July.
Guest:It's hot in Denver.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the club, big club, it was like a supper club.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was me and it was Lola Falana.
Marc:So this is when comics would do like 20 before singing act.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Yeah, that's right.
Guest:And what better way to celebrate the 200th anniversary than an unknown comedian and Lola Falana.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they're paying $100 to get in.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:So they said, and I'm at the Holiday Inn down the interstate.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They said, now at 7.30, Bob will be here in the limo to pick you up.
Guest:And I said, great, okay.
Guest:7.30, there's Bob.
Guest:We get in the limo.
Guest:We go down.
Guest:Two shows on a Friday night.
Guest:The first show goes okay, okay.
Guest:The second show, a dead silence.
Guest:And Bob takes me back to the hotel, back to the Holiday Inn.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Next day and for every other day for the 10-day run, no Bob.
Guest:No Bob.
Guest:So now I'm walking down the interstate every night to get to the gig.
Guest:And I thought, oh, well, that's how that works.
Guest:And I felt so bad about it.
Guest:It's embarrassing.
Guest:It's just embarrassing because they said, don't worry.
Guest:All I had was like 30 minutes tops.
Guest:And they said, don't worry.
Guest:We turned the house.
Guest:And I said, oh, thank God.
Guest:Well, they didn't.
Guest:So it's you folks want to hear the same stuff again or hi, where are you from?
Guest:A lot of that.
Guest:And I called my friend George Miller and I said, George, I'm taking your act.
Guest:I said, my stuff is not working.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:I'm taking your act.
Guest:And he says, that's fine.
Guest:Go ahead.
Guest:Take it.
Guest:Anything you need.
Guest:So I did George's act for a while.
Guest:And it worked?
Yeah.
Guest:Not as well as it worked for George.
Guest:I'm telling you, this was a crucible.
Guest:This was... That was the deciding week.
Marc:You're like, I'm not cut out for this shit.
Guest:Well, yeah, and so many things were wrong, and you start saying, hi, where are you from?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we're from Denver.
Guest:Oh, hi, nice to see you.
Guest:What do you do?
Guest:I sell insurance.
Guest:Oh, good, good, glad.
Guest:How are you?
Guest:Good.
Guest:Where are you from?
Guest:I'm from Denver.
Guest:Oh!
Guest:So you go around the table, and the last guy, I said, hi, where are you from?
Guest:And he says, I'm from Denver.
Guest:We're all from Denver.
Guest:You're in Denver.
Guest:I thought, okay, good night, everybody.
Guest:I'm walking back to the Holiday Inn.
Guest:And then a guy, a comic you know, calls up, hears that I'm bombing.
Guest:So he calls the owner of the club, and he says, I understand Letterman's bombing.
Guest:And they said, yeah, it's not going great.
Guest:And he said, I can be there tomorrow.
Guest:And I just thought, oh, my God.
Guest:I couldn't just get any worse.
Guest:Who was that?
Guest:I'm not going to say.
Guest:Oh, God damn it.
Guest:Did he come?
Guest:No, no, I hung on.
Guest:I was able to hang on with George.
Guest:And the other great thing, God bless the band.
Guest:They were to play Lola Falana on, and she had dancers.
Guest:And so they, at 40 minutes, good night, everybody, drive safely.
Guest:So the band comes down at about 35 minutes.
Guest:By Tuesday, they'd show up at the 15-minute mark, and I just, I said, oh, thank you.
Guest:God bless you guys.
Guest:Yeah, that's right.
Guest:And they had nothing but great sympathy.
Guest:And that was the sweet part that the band said.
Guest:Let's help him out.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:We're all on the same team.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Kids going down.
Marc:Yep.
Guest:And all this time you're drinking and you're married.
Guest:Yeah, I go back to the holiday inn and get really, really drunk.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And talk to my wife.
Guest:And then Jay Leno decides – Jay hears that I'm bombing.
Yeah.
Guest:And Jay loves this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he decides, he calls my wife and says, you know what, I got to pick Dave up from the airport when he comes home.
Guest:So I go to the airport and there's Jay Leno.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's, I understand he had some trouble with Mr. Letterman.
Guest:And so I thought, I can't even get home without the ignominy of having bombed in Denver.
Marc:No, word is out.
Guest:But everybody does it.
Guest:Everybody lives through it.
Guest:There's guys like Jerry.
Guest:Now we're talking the other end of the spectrum.
Guest:And he said he was working someplace New Year's Eve.
Marc:I won't even do it anymore.
Marc:The worst.
Marc:The worst.
Marc:I don't know why people do it.
Marc:It must be a lot of money.
Guest:And he said, I just do the material.
Guest:He said, I don't look left.
Guest:I don't look right.
Guest:I just relax and I leave it all to the material.
Guest:That's pretty smart.
Guest:I know if you can do that, but I'm looking for something.
Guest:My needs are deeper.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, you and I came in on the same bus.
Guest:But he's smart.
Guest:He doesn't care.
Guest:He says, here's the material.
Guest:And I rely on it.
Guest:I trust it.
Guest:And it works.
Guest:And this is what you're going to get.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I get that approach.
Marc:But because of that, I have no idea who that man is.
Marc:Like with you, I mean, I know who you are.
Marc:I've been watching you my whole life.
Marc:And right when you say anything, I'm like, I know who that guy is.
Marc:With Jerry, I'm like, well, that's a good story.
Marc:But-
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:See, I look at Jerry and a few other people like Steve Martin.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there's just a handful of names and women who are very successful in whatever show business comedy or acting or singing.
Guest:And Jerry to me represents the career I should have had.
Guest:and you think, oh yeah, like Steve Martin, like, oh yeah.
Guest:And if you read Born Standing Up, you realize that Steve actually put some thought into his career.
Guest:I didn't put any thought into it.
Guest:Did you put any thought into your career?
Guest:I just wanted to be a comic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that's it.
Marc:I mean, you know, and then like, you know, you get a certain a few years down the road at that.
Marc:You're like, why isn't it happening?
Marc:And then and then you get angry and you go through that.
Guest:Well, I didn't even want to be a comic so much as I just I just wanted to be able to sit behind a desk and say, hey, nice earrings.
Guest:That's all I could do.
Guest:Then you succeeded amazingly well.
Yeah.
Marc:So how does it all change, you know, with Johnny?
Marc:I mean, you know, how does that, what happens to the marriage?
Marc:What happens to, you know, I mean, how does it, how do you take off?
Marc:I mean, when you start guest hosting and whatnot.
Guest:Well, that was huge because, you know, it was huge to be on The Tonight Show.
Guest:The marriage was altogether independent from that and my irresponsible behavior.
Guest:But
Guest:If you're on The Tonight Show, if you're hosting The Tonight Show, suddenly people are really, really nice to you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Very nice to you.
Guest:And I've noticed now also since I've stopped being on television, they've gotten even nicer.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:And I think that's the old saying, you know, give them what they want.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just stop being on television.
Yeah.
Guest:And we'll be really nice to you.
Guest:Thanks for relieving us of what you put us through.
Guest:But I don't know what the machine is now.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Like, I remember I went back to the comedy store on the Sam Kinison days on a Monday night.
Guest:That was his night.
Guest:And I just, I got frightened.
Guest:I thought, here's Sam.
Guest:And, oh, like a guy, I used to love Mitchell Walters.
Guest:Mitchell, yeah.
Guest:Is Mitchell still around?
Guest:What's your area code?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've told people that this was his act and they don't, nobody believes me.
Guest:And I said, no, the guy would get up there.
Guest:Hey, what's your hometown?
Guest:And then he would call out the area.
Guest:And I said, no, that didn't happen.
Guest:It happened.
Guest:It's a little tricky now with cell phones because they're not.
Guest:But is he is he OK?
Marc:I don't know if he's OK.
Marc:I didn't know him that well.
Marc:He was sort of, you know, I heard a good story about him, though.
Marc:He emailed me at some point because I'd mentioned him on the show.
Marc:He says I'm in Florida or somewhere.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's alive.
Guest:I've stolen What a Hip Guy.
Guest:That was Mitchell's response to anything.
Guest:That was his tag?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you hear about Governor Brown?
Guest:What a hip guy.
Guest:And I've stolen that and made it my own.
Guest:He's a memorable character, Mitchell.
Guest:Well, the place was full of memorable characters.
Marc:And it was just great.
Marc:It was great.
Marc:Well, so once you started rolling with the talk show thing, now was...
Marc:When you did the morning show, was that hell or was that good for you?
Guest:It was hell.
Guest:Because you know what it is, Mark?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I thought I was under the impression that America was just waiting for the kind of show I was going to give them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because you look at what's on and you think, well, this can't be good enough.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wait till I get up there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'll show them what a program really is.
Guest:Well, it didn't work that way.
Guest:Not in the morning.
Guest:Not in the morning.
Guest:Didn't work that way.
Guest:No.
Guest:And so we were yanked and that was a very difficult year.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Very difficult year.
Marc:Did you think you were over?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You think you go to the back of the line and likely you do.
Guest:Uh huh.
Guest:And then had another shot at it and it slowly, slowly got to be okay.
Marc:With the, with the, with the late, with the first show.
Guest:that's correct and and that was it was did johnny have a hand in that yes he had a piece of the show i think he got 10 of it i don't know what the yeah that was it with late night yeah yeah because we followed him and uh we were beholden to him yeah in many ways and were you in contact with him was he yeah was he saying like i like that bit no we never talked about the show i would uh
Guest:I would go to dinner with him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was always frightened that I would just get comfortable and then he'd decide he didn't like me.
Guest:So I never could.
Guest:Around guys like that where you just can't relax because, you know, oh, Jesus, Johnny Carson, what if I do something stupid?
Guest:And it's just going to be all over.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it's like, what if I wreck his car pulling into the driveway?
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Okay, Letterman's not coming back.
Marc:That's so horrible because we can't be comfortable.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:It's like you're always afraid you're going to say the one thing.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And that's going to be it.
Marc:Yeah, I may have said it already here today.
Marc:I don't think so.
Marc:I think those days are gone.
Marc:What are they going to do to you now?
Guest:Well, it's not what are they going to do to you.
Guest:It's I will spend till Labor Day eating my own guts.
Guest:Just thinking about it?
Guest:Just like, oh, why did I?
Guest:What's the matter?
Marc:Well, I mean, how do you deal with that?
Marc:Because I remember one time when the one time I did the show, like your show, I don't remember which time it was, but I was always it was always a day of just sort of like.
Marc:Oh God, just trying to act normal and putting a suit on.
Marc:And I remember one time I got to the building and somehow or another, I can't remember if it was an elevator opening or you were on the stairs, but you were in the middle of something frantic.
Marc:Did you run the stairs?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it was disconcerting to me.
Marc:I'm like, did we just interrupt something?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Was I supposed to see Dave like that?
Guest:I don't think I was supposed to see that.
Guest:It's very funny because at some point, for some reason, it became in cement that you couldn't be in the hallway when Dave was in the hallway.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And if you were, holy God and look out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, it was never that, but I like to, from my office, once I got off the elevator, I like to run as fast as I could through the labyrinthian hallways up the stairs and into my dressing room just for exercise.
Guest:Yeah, that's right.
Guest:And I kept saying, one of these days I'm going to run into an intern or a page or somebody and knock them unconscious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So maybe we should ask.
Guest:So this became whatever you do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're not allowed in the hallway if Letterman's in there.
Guest:And by the way, don't look at him.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I think that must have been it.
Guest:And I was like, am I still on?
Guest:I remember one time I was getting ready to do the show and I was coming downstairs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And an audio guy who liked cars, he and I both would talk about cars.
Guest:So I'm now four minutes away from doing the show.
Guest:I come down the stairs and the guy says, Dave.
Guest:And I said, yeah.
Guest:And he says, I got a chance to buy a 68 Buick.
Guest:Can I borrow $4,000?
Guest:Ladies and gentlemen.
Guest:What's happening here?
Guest:But, you know, those are the things that later are delightful.
Guest:Did you give him the money?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I did.
Guest:You understood where he was at.
Guest:You pick maybe a different call-up schedule.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Right before you go on.
Guest:It was good.
Guest:Those kind of things.
Guest:are fun to remember.
Marc:I remember watching the show, the first show, the late night show when I was in college, and I used to lay on this futon with this color TV set I had, and I just couldn't get over it.
Marc:There was one moment, and I don't even know if it's real or you would remember it.
Marc:I don't remember who the hell the guy was, but he'd written a book.
Marc:He was involved with the mob and the intro.
Marc:The intro was something like, this man was involved in the murders of 18 people.
Marc:And then the guy comes right out and starts talking about Jesus.
Marc:And you're like, we don't want to hear about that.
Guest:We want to hear about the people you killed.
Guest:Yeah, I do remember.
Guest:I remember two things that every now and then you get a guy like that who's written the book.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:And I read one where a guy, there's a motorcycle gang in Southern California, the name of which escapes me, which is probably a good thing.
Guest:And he infiltrated the motorcycle.
Guest:But he was really working for the FBI.
Guest:And every chapter was, you'll never know how close I was to get my bike blown up.
Guest:Chapter two, you'll never know how close I came to having my eyes poked out with a hot iron.
Guest:Chapter three, you'll never know how close I came to having my house blown up.
Guest:But I thought, well, nothing happened.
Guest:And then he's on every talk show in America.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's got a real racket going with you.
Guest:You never know how close I was.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's a shtick.
Marc:So, now, when you look back on stuff, because I can't keep you here all day, you're going to dinner with Dreesen tonight?
Guest:Going to dinner with Dreesen, going to dinner with John Witherspoon, Tim Thomerson.
Guest:Oh, Tim.
Guest:And myself, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it was funny.
Marc:Like, I saw a montage of Tim doing the same horse bit.
Guest:There was a guy you couldn't follow either.
Guest:Yeah, I bet.
Guest:Were you, was he still working with?
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:He was sort of long gone.
Marc:So you started in California or did you start in New York?
Marc:No, I came out here after college in Boston.
Marc:I was here for about a year and I got screwed up on drugs and I went home to Albuquerque and I cleaned up and I went back to Boston and started over and I started working like in the late 80s.
Marc:And then I came back here in 2001 and finally got my name on the fucking wall.
Marc:Took a long time.
Marc:So important.
Guest:So important.
Guest:I just I want to reiterate this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Knowing a little bit about your story and knowing that it's completely different from other stories.
Guest:It diverges at a certain point.
Guest:The coming out here, having trouble, going home, coming back.
Guest:But the fact that you have invented the podcast, essentially, and, you know— I used a medium.
Marc:It was laying there, and I used it.
Guest:It was laying there, but nobody else had the wherewithal or the brains or the whatever it is that took to launch this is quite commendable.
Marc:Well, thank you.
Marc:It was just a matter—like, well, I needed help.
Marc:And, like, I had been in show business long enough to where I knew enough people—
Marc:And I was bitter and I was cynical and I'd just gone through a divorce and I was going broke and I couldn't draw people on the road.
Marc:So I started this thing in my garage and I called the people I knew to come over and I invited celebrity guests to talk about my problems.
Marc:And it developed a real style.
Guest:Yeah, but the president of the United States is only coming here because of the success of your podcast.
Guest:And I'll tell you in all honesty, even having been here with you, I still don't know what a podcast is.
Guest:It's on your phone.
Guest:No, it's not.
Guest:It's not on my phone.
Marc:It's okay.
Guest:You don't have to know.
Marc:Me and your dad.
Marc:Well, I mean, you're doing long form now.
Guest:I mean, what do you feel about it?
Guest:I love it.
Guest:You do?
Guest:I do love it.
Guest:Yeah, because it's not every day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't have to run through a hallway and knock down ushers.
Marc:Oh, we scared Dave.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I can imagine from anyone else's perspective, it must be, oh, God, some sort of explosive device has gone off and he's running for his life.
Guest:It was more like, you know, we just walked in on you in the bathroom.
Marc:I was like, you know, I don't think anyone was supposed to see that.
Marc:But but but how is the adjustment for you into regular life?
Marc:I mean, you must have.
Marc:Here's a couple of things before I start rushing is that like I don't have children.
Marc:And, you know, for years, I just didn't think I thought I was too selfish, too anxious, too nervous, too angry.
Guest:I am the president of that club.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And now, you know, you have one.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And it's the greatest thing in the world.
Guest:Greatest thing in the world.
Guest:But that's exactly the conversation I used to have.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:I'm focused on this.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:It will be too big a distraction.
Guest:And I put it off for like 15 years with my wife.
Guest:And that turned out to be a huge mistake.
Guest:But I was exactly the way you were.
Guest:I'm worrying about the children I don't have.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Hard not to.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, like when I think about it, I get anxious.
Marc:How do you?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I had great anxiety during the pregnancy.
Guest:And then, as I've said a billion times, like I'm the only one who's ever had a child.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's born.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The switch is flipped.
Guest:And it is a switch.
Guest:It's unconditional love.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's doing all right.
Guest:But here's the mistake that I made.
Guest:And I'm not suggesting this for anyone else.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I should have done this 15 years ago.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Because now I'm 100.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's got a suit picked out for the reading of the will.
Guest:And there you go.
Guest:I don't know if that's the way to look at it.
Guest:I'm sure he loves you.
Guest:Believe me, it's the way to look at it.
Marc:But how are you using your time?
Marc:I know that you've said publicly almost over and over again how you do not miss the job at all.
Guest:Oh, I did in the beginning.
Guest:But now I actually think not being consumed by show business –
Guest:has made me a better person.
Guest:Oh, how could it not?
Guest:Well, I don't want to blame show business.
Guest:It's myself.
Guest:I think I've tried to be a better person.
Marc:Just blame show business.
Marc:Okay, why not?
Marc:Yeah, you've tried to be a better person.
Guest:I mean, I got everything in my life from show business, so why not turn on it?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, I mean, but it's demanding and, you know, it's draining and it's like cancer.
Guest:And it's misguided.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it's misguided.
Guest:It's a tiny focus.
Guest:And everybody says, oh, but joy.
Guest:I'm not sure about that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, no, I don't know what joy is.
Marc:I'm working on it.
Marc:You know, I mean, I feel it, but I push it away.
Guest:But to me, what you're doing here is a service to people because it's entertaining and informational.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And people like they get to know people.
Guest:It's good.
Guest:Angelica Houston.
Guest:I know I know more about Angelica Houston.
Guest:I was never interested in her.
Guest:She's a person.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was good.
Marc:People become people.
Marc:it was good but let me ask you before like i go nuts like so so the the child that having the kid is good and you're enjoying life and also it seems to me that you've evolved you know publicly very well like the way you handle the blackmail thing was amazing the way you handle you know your past sort of uh treatment of women is amazing like you're you're an evolving person i think people you know there's very few people that speak about it the way you do well
Guest:you go through life one step at a time and two things can happen.
Guest:You either get smarter from these lessons or you don't.
Guest:And if you don't, you're a fool and nobody wants to be a fool.
Marc:Yeah, and you say that the depression is better?
Guest:Yeah, it is better.
Guest:Yeah, thanks to medication.
Guest:Sure, it's fine.
Marc:Do you meditate still?
Guest:Yes, I do.
Guest:I meditated today.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But do you have a certain system?
Marc:Because people tell me I should do it.
Marc:And I feel like we have a lot in common in the anxiety, pushing things away.
Marc:Why is happiness important department?
Marc:So what made you transition to that?
Marc:Was it the heart thing?
Guest:No, it was because it was part of my program to become a better person, and I thought perhaps meditating would help me become a better person.
Guest:And I'll tell you what meditating does.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And to be honest, nobody was more skeptical about it than myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it does work.
Guest:I've actually had blood pressure just drop right down after meditating.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it also refreshes you in a way that for a while just gave me more energy to be angry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I thought, wait a minute here.
Guest:This is something's not quite right.
Guest:Every time I exercise, I'm furious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But your dad's 82 or something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He keeps plugging.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But the anger is better.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Less to be angry about.
Guest:I mean, you know, a network television show, you pretend it's important, and Leno was always, it's too bad nobody watching the show.
Guest:And so you'd have to, oh, Jay, okay, thanks.
Guest:Thanks, Jay.
Guest:So it's a lot of...
Guest:You know, I talked to him.
Marc:Oh, he was on the show.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I was.
Marc:And he like, you know, he knew I was in the other camp.
Marc:So it was it was dicey a little bit for me.
Marc:But, you know, because, you know, I was always a Letterman Conan guy.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:And, you know, and he knew I had sides in the thing, but he decided to come on and I tried to get, you know, in there.
Guest:Well, I always said that he's two things.
Guest:I think he's the funniest person I was ever around.
Guest:And I think maybe what we see is a manifestation of deep insecurity.
Marc:Something.
Guest:But, I mean, as a stand-up, was there anybody?
Guest:Did you see him at the comedy store?
Marc:No, I used to see him at the improv.
Marc:I know he was great.
Guest:Oh, yeah, he was great there, too.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:The Queen Peach Advisory Board.
Yeah.
Guest:What kind of job is that?
Guest:Yeah, you folks seen Star Wars?
Marc:But you seem to have a lot of fond memories of the guy.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Because, you know, like everything else, so what?
Guest:And nothing happened on which you could indict.
Guest:So, you know, and he was... He's good.
Marc:Really good.
Marc:But do you ever foresee a future where you guys...
Guest:No, not really.
Guest:I mean, we were friendly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, I liked him.
Guest:I think he I think, you know, there was Robert Klein, who is still great.
Guest:And then there was Jay, who I think took was influenced by Robert Klein.
Guest:I think Jay would admit that.
Guest:And for my group, he was our Robert Klein.
Marc:It's so funny because Robert Klein, and not unlike you or myself, but unlike Jay and other people, like Robert Klein is like 80, and he's still, you know, before he goes on, fundamentally insecure.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Like, I mean, when I did a gig with him, he's like, oh, Christ, I don't know.
Marc:I'm like, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, how about that?
Marc:How about that?
Marc:You mean this never goes away?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It never goes away.
Marc:I believe that's true.
Yeah.
Marc:So now and also, I guess I want to talk about real quick is the the way you handled the Bill Hicks thing.
Marc:I thought that was pretty noble as well.
Guest:Well, no, that was a mistake I made.
Guest:Bill Hicks had been on our old show quite a lot.
Guest:He was a regular on the show.
Marc:But you saw in him like he was special.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:And so then we move to 1130, and Bill comes on, and he does a set that we talked a lot about.
Guest:And I think it included, I don't know, I remember what it was.
Marc:Maybe a Christian joke?
Guest:We don't need to revisit it.
Guest:So we did a sloppy job of taking him out of the show.
Marc:We gave Bill Schaft a big break.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:I love Bill.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Bill was, you know, played along.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was a mistake.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was discourteous.
Guest:It was impolite.
Guest:It was inconsiderate on my part.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then later, it turns out the man has, I think, liver cancer.
Marc:Pancreatic.
Guest:Pancreatic cancer.
Guest:So, and that was haunting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, because he died and you never really made amends or made it right or had him back on or whatever.
Guest:It should not have happened in the first place.
Guest:I have no great defense.
Guest:I have excuses, but I'm not even going to.
Guest:But you had his mom on and you had a nice apology.
Guest:Yes, we had his mother on and we played the set that had been deleted.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I looked at it and I thought I had really been a fool because at that time it just seemed like, really?
Guest:Really, Dave?
Guest:You did this to this kid?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's one of, you know, one of the many mistakes I made.
Marc:Well, do you have any, do you find yourself, you know, in closing here, do you find yourself, you know, making amends?
Guest:By the way, I'll tell you when we're closing.
Marc:Oh, that's fine.
Marc:Stay here as long as you want.
Marc:We can go back.
Marc:I skipped a bunch of stuff.
Marc:I just like saying that.
Marc:Robin told me, like, I did one of the last, or a fairly beautiful interview with him.
Marc:I went to his house, and it was just the two of us.
Marc:Did you know at the time that he was ill?
Marc:Well, no, not like that.
Marc:I mean, like, you know, he did do some sad riffing at the end about, he had just relapsed with booze, and he'd gotten through the heart surgery and stuff, but I had no idea of the deteriorative, or deteriorating, the mentally deteriorating disease.
Marc:But he was very candid, you know, but I think he told me that, you know, he did that.
Marc:He was talking about being on your show after he had the open heart surgery after you had.
Marc:And you said to him, you said, did you find yourself crying on nothing or something like that?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he said you guys connected around that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That experience.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's, it's, it's a great, uh, I love the experience.
Guest:Not, not for Robin, for myself.
Guest:I loved it.
Guest:I loved the open heart surgery.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I loved it.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:Uh, because as I've said, it was all about me and, uh, everybody would, and I just sit him down and I'd take him right through it.
Guest:I couldn't stop talking about it.
Guest:It was delightful.
Marc:But after, but afterwards, I remember watching the show.
Marc:You were, it was sort of like, uh, you know, you couldn't hide the vulnerability.
Marc:It was out.
Marc:There was no putting that back in the bottle.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But from that experience, I made a handful of really good friends that are still really good friends today.
Guest:So it was- At the hospital?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah, the hospital staff.
Guest:And yeah, it was good.
Guest:Saved my life.
Guest:It's been 19 years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Congratulations.
Guest:Thank you very much.
Guest:Wait a minute.
Guest:I'm getting- Oh, no, not now.
Guest:Not here.
Marc:Not here.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:Let me turn the mics up.
Marc:See what we're doing.
Marc:It's not funny to pretend you're having a heart attack, Dave.
Marc:Just stay on the mic.
Marc:This is going to be clickbait heaven.
Marc:But, okay, the last question.
Marc:Do you have amends that you want to make?
Marc:Do you have regrets that you still want to hammer out?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:You do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, you haven't lived a life if you get to be my age and don't have regrets.
Guest:And I've tried.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And some have worked, some have not worked.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the ones that have not worked frustrate me.
Guest:Because I well, you want things to go your way and you it's not a fun feeling when you have inadvertently hurt someone's feelings and have reached out to try and correct the problem.
Guest:And you just it only deepens your feeling of being inconsiderate and even accidentally being a jerk.
Guest:Nobody wants that.
Marc:But isn't it more like I guess that's one of the things you learn about about that process.
Marc:It's really more about you taking responsibility for what your actions was.
Marc:You can't really control how they're going to receive it.
Guest:Well, that's that's the mature way of looking at it.
Guest:You're exactly you're exactly right.
Guest:And perhaps you get credit for trying to make it right.
Guest:Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But what you want is it to be right.
Guest:Like in the case of Bill Hicks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Didn't make it right.
Guest:Did the best I could.
Guest:And I still feel bad about it.
Marc:But you're not beating the shit out of yourself every day, are you?
Guest:No, you can't.
Guest:You know, you can't.
Guest:Because nobody learns anything from that.
Guest:You know, you make mistakes, you try to correct them, and you keep going.
Marc:Well, you know, I certainly was nervous about this, but, you know, by the time you got here, I wasn't.
Guest:Good.
Guest:I was excited about this because it's my first, I think it's my first podcast.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How do you feel about it?
Marc:I'd like to do one a day.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:You know, just hang out in L.A.
Marc:for a week.
Marc:Everybody's got one.
Marc:It's not unlike comedy now.
Marc:Everyone's got a podcast.
Marc:Argus Hamilton has a podcast.
Marc:I did it.
Marc:It's not a podcast.
Marc:It's not a podcast.
Guest:It's something else.
Marc:He's doing a live streaming television show in the basement of the comedy store.
Marc:Well, how do you do that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, he set up a camera and you get a YouTube or one of the streaming services and he goes live once a week.
Marc:I think it's Tuesday night.
Marc:It was last night.
Marc:You missed it.
Marc:How does one get that?
Marc:On the computer.
Marc:You have a computer?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yes, I do.
Marc:Yeah, I did it.
Marc:I did it.
Marc:Argus is a character.
Marc:I got to interview him.
Marc:There's something going on in there.
Guest:Yeah, I've known him.
Guest:Well, I guess maybe I'll see him tomorrow.
Marc:You know, honestly, dude, he still kills.
Marc:He writes those jokes, man.
Marc:He writes the jokes, and they're current, and he does well.
Marc:Does he travel?
Marc:I don't know what he does.
Marc:No one knows what he does.
Marc:He comes to the comedy store, he does a set, and then he gets out.
Marc:Then he leaves.
Marc:But he's very sober.
Guest:Happy.
Guest:Oh, no, he had some demons.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, he seems happy.
Marc:He seems chipper, you know, and he's he loves the comedy story.
Marc:He's really the only one of that generation that has been grandfathered in, you know, by the by the institution to never stop working for as long as he wants to work.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And what kind of boys and girls are on stage?
Marc:There there's a lot of great acts there now.
Marc:You know, there's a lot of people that there's a good crew and the place has gotten very hot again.
Marc:It's I think it's really the last authentic comedy club, you know, still sort of owned and operated by the original family kind of deal.
Marc:And the place looks the same, but they they they fix the bathrooms in the back hall.
Marc:They fix the floors.
Marc:There's you know, the the places like they got security now.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:They never used to have security.
Guest:No, it's just comics working the door.
Marc:God forbid something happened.
Marc:You get guys going, this is not part of what I do.
Marc:But no, it's a real operation.
Marc:A lot of the great new comics are there.
Guest:It's the best location for a club anywhere in the world.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also the funny thing is, is like, and I believe that you probably feel it, too, is like for whatever reason, you know, when I got there in the late 80s, I felt immediately, you know, deeply and mystically attached to the place.
Guest:I had the same thing.
Guest:I felt like geographically I have accomplished what needed to be accomplished.
Marc:And what happened with Mitzi ultimately?
Marc:You know, how did that end up?
Marc:I mean, you seem to show up and do things.
Guest:Yeah, we, I think afterwards we got to be friends again.
Guest:And I remember, I know you're pressed for.
Guest:I'm not pressed for time.
Guest:I thought you were.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:Well, no.
Guest:Yeah, go ahead.
Guest:I'm not pressed for time.
Guest:So we were doing the show in Las Vegas.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At her place?
Guest:At the Dunes?
Guest:No, we had the TV show at.
Guest:Oh, your show.
Guest:The MGM.
Guest:The CBS show?
Guest:The MGM Grand.
Guest:No, the NBC show.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Maybe it was a CBS show.
Guest:They were all such good shows.
Guest:They were.
Guest:They were great.
Guest:So we're walking through the casino and I see Mitzi coming the other way.
Guest:And I said, hey, Mitzi.
Guest:David, how are you?
Guest:It's great.
Guest:Mitzi, how are you?
Guest:fine.
Guest:I said, wow, that's some coat.
Guest:She's wearing a, like a thing that comes down to her waist and it's a furry.
Guest:And I said, that's a beautiful coat.
Guest:And she says, it's monkey.
Guest:I said, okay, I got a cheese.
Guest:I got a cab waiting Mitzi and a good luck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just thought, well, that's breaking a law.
Guest:Is that somehow?
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:But God bless her.
Guest:Uh, I mean, come on in and you can be on TV.
Uh,
Guest:Yeah, if you try.
Marc:Get five minutes, you're going on TV.
Marc:But what about that whole improv war and like you can't work there, you can only work and all that stuff?
Guest:Who cares?
Guest:The improv was great.
Guest:I always had trouble at the improv, but there was Andy Kaufman, so it was worth going down there.
Marc:Oh, I can't imagine what it was like to see him.
Marc:That's fantastic.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then he would come on the show, and that was a dream also, boy.
Marc:What, to have him on your show?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because he never knew what was going to happen?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:He was so cool, he would tell you exactly what was going to happen.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:He was a gentleman in that respect.
Marc:So you got to play along.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He would say, here's what's going to happen, and then Jerry Lawler will come out, and we're going to get into an argument, and then he's going to hit me, and then I'll go down, and that'll be the segment.
Guest:And I said, okay.
Guest:And then it happens, and even though I knew roughly what was going to happen, it was still, oh, my God, he wasn't kidding.
Yeah.
Guest:And the audience, of course, is like, geez, get your purse.
Guest:We got to get out of here.
Guest:And the thing that I loved about him from the beginning when he would come on our show is he would always say at the end of the segment, send me the hate mail.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who else did you like look forward to having?
Guest:Well, all my buddies, because you knew they were going to deliver.
Guest:I used to love having Jay on.
Guest:We had Elaine Boosler on all the time.
Guest:She was a good friend of ours in those days.
Guest:George Miller.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:God bless him.
Guest:I loved having George on.
Guest:I just still love him.
Guest:And then Altman, you know, Jeff and then Tom and Richard.
Guest:Oh, Richard Lewis was great for us, too.
Marc:You know, all of the all of these guys did really well for us.
Marc:That was my dream, you know, is that when I started doing Conan, I'm like, I want to be a panel guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like Richard was on Dave's show.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he let me like three or four times a year.
Guest:Good.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It was great.
Marc:The great thing about panels, like you didn't have the jokes didn't have to be whole.
Marc:It's like, you know, you could kind of wing it and and see what happened a little bit.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Two different skills, really.
Guest:And the guys that... I didn't care for the guys who would just do their stand-up at panel.
Guest:I just thought, wait a minute, we're not having a conversation here.
Marc:Yeah, have a little story.
Guest:You're funny, and that's great, but you could do that over there.
Guest:If you're coming over here, talk to me.
Marc:Unless you're Rodney Dangerfield.
Marc:I'm tired of talking, Mark.
Marc:Okay, now it's going to turn into Norm's show.
Ha ha!
Marc:So you're the one who saw that.
Guest:I had to watch it.
Guest:I love Norm.
Guest:God, geez.
Guest:I don't know what happened to that show.
Guest:I remember saying to Ted Sarandos, after all of Norm's shows had been produced, I said, boy, I think you guys really got something here.
Guest:Apparently not.
Marc:But I loved it.
Marc:Yeah, Norm's a character.
Marc:All right, thanks for talking to me, David.
Guest:Hey, Mark, congratulations on everything.
Guest:Thank you so much.
Guest:Nice talking with you.
Marc:That was a thrilling hour or so for me.
Marc:Thank you for hanging out, Dave.
Marc:Thank you for listening to that.
Marc:I was a little overwhelmed, but it got loose.
Marc:It got loose.
Marc:You know, man.
Marc:Dave Letterman was at my house, and we hung out and talked for a while.
Marc:I feel alright about it.
Marc:I feel alright.
Marc:I, uh, you know, I feel like I talked to a fellow comic, a fellow human, a guy trying to be a better guy, a thoughtful guy.
Marc:I don't know, man.
Marc:What a fucking day, right?
Marc:I'll play a little guitar.
Guest:Boomer lives!
Guest:.