Episode 1017 - Anna Konkle & Maya Erskine

Episode 1017 • Released May 9, 2019 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:All right, let's do this.

00:00:10Marc:How are you?

00:00:11Marc:What the fuckers?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:13Marc:What the fucksters?

00:00:14Marc:It's Mark Maron.

00:00:16Marc:How's it going?

00:00:17Marc:This is my podcast WTF.

00:00:18Marc:Welcome to it.

00:00:19Marc:I'm not at home.

00:00:21Marc:I am.

00:00:21Marc:I'll probably be home.

00:00:23Marc:I'll be on the way home when you listen to this, but I'm not at home now.

00:00:27Marc:I've been in New York City for a few days.

00:00:29Marc:As some of you know, maybe you know, I don't know.

00:00:32Marc:I checked in on Instagram, which is a rare event for me.

00:00:35Marc:I don't really like the pressure of thinking about either tweeting or doing Instagram posts.

00:00:43Marc:And I've successfully detached from both of them to the point where I'm like, oh, yeah, I should do that occasionally to check in with the folks that would like to hear from me.

00:00:55Marc:And I'm not that proficient at it.

00:00:57Marc:But anyway, so some of you saw the check-in.

00:00:59Marc:I'll try to do more of that.

00:01:01Marc:I have been here for a few days, and it has been pretty fun.

00:01:04Marc:I'm trying to just sort of... I don't know that some of you know.

00:01:08Marc:When you're self-employed, you never really know when work is done.

00:01:11Marc:So you kind of always work.

00:01:13Marc:And most of what you do is...

00:01:14Marc:work-related and obviously those of you who've been following the show know that I'm you know a little out of sorts and a little sort of existentially challenged with my own ability to engage with life in a way that maybe I could find some joy or fun in it as opposed to just relief but I don't know it's it's it's touch and go but but I'm trying and

00:01:41Marc:And I've been here and I came here to New York because initially there was some GLOW promotional event that got moved, but I had scheduled some interviews because there are certain people I can't do in LA because I just don't come to LA that much.

00:01:58Marc:I don't see them.

00:02:00Marc:And I decided just to come and just do the interviews, the few interviews I had to do.

00:02:04Marc:By the way, Maya Erskine and Anna Conkle

00:02:08Marc:are on the show today.

00:02:10Marc:Their show, Pen15, is one of the most, it's a funny show.

00:02:15Marc:It's a deep show, and I found it very moving.

00:02:19Marc:And I don't know if you've watched it.

00:02:21Marc:I think it's on Hulu, the first season.

00:02:23Marc:You can stream it on Hulu.

00:02:25Marc:It's these two actresses, these two women who I talk to, who are actually playing, I believe, seventh graders or eighth graders, seventh graders,

00:02:35Marc:They're playing them with other seventh graders.

00:02:37Marc:So they're portraying seventh graders in their 30s.

00:02:43Marc:But it's incredible how quickly the device doesn't affect you and how beautiful what happens and how funny and how sort of human it all is.

00:02:53Marc:It's really an interesting and funny show.

00:02:56Marc:And when I watched it, I had worked with Anna Conkle on Marin.

00:03:00Marc:She's on the last season of Marin.

00:03:03Marc:She plays the woman who has my baby.

00:03:05Marc:And I liked her then.

00:03:08Marc:I thought she was great as an actress.

00:03:09Marc:But they created this really unique, fun, but moving show, Pen15.

00:03:16Marc:So they're here.

00:03:17Marc:I mean, they're not here, but I'm going to talk to them.

00:03:23Marc:So I'm doing a few interviews here in New York.

00:03:25Marc:And it's weird.

00:03:25Marc:I think I've kind of worn out...

00:03:28Marc:My back when I at the beginning of this thing, when I used to do interviews on the road, it was because it was hard to get people on the show sometimes or they didn't know what the show was or they're only in New York.

00:03:39Marc:And there was an urgency to it.

00:03:40Marc:Like, I got to you know, we got to get this person.

00:03:44Marc:And I still have that to a degree.

00:03:45Marc:But I find now when I do these things that.

00:03:48Marc:on the road that I'm like, it's so much better in my house.

00:03:52Marc:It's so much better in my studio.

00:03:53Marc:There's a comfort factor I have.

00:03:55Marc:I'm not worried about other things.

00:03:56Marc:I'm in an environment that is conducive to what I do.

00:04:00Marc:I had an interview yesterday where I had some technical problems, and I'm here with a guy that you all know.

00:04:08Marc:And we're in the room and we're doing the thing.

00:04:10Marc:And then the recorder, all of a sudden, I notice it's not recording.

00:04:14Marc:And I got to stop myself from completely spinning out with a big actor who's sitting there.

00:04:20Marc:And I'm like, oh, fuck.

00:04:21Marc:I mean, you've heard me spin out.

00:04:24Marc:And then I got to kind of manage that.

00:04:26Marc:And he was a good sport about it.

00:04:28Marc:But it made me feel like a fucking doofus.

00:04:31Marc:So I really don't need any new reasons to feel like a doofus.

00:04:38Marc:It worked out, but I'm just expressing this to you because it was a feeling I was working through.

00:04:45Marc:So after that...

00:04:48Marc:After I felt like a doofus and I had to manage a situation and it all worked out, but it was sort of trying.

00:04:55Marc:And then after that, I kind of tumbled down into some sort of chasm of self about my life.

00:05:01Marc:And obviously, look, I'm not complaining.

00:05:03Marc:Everything's going good.

00:05:04Marc:But there was just something about that moment that triggered a bunch of other insecurities.

00:05:07Marc:And then I was kind of spiraling in the sadness that I'm dealing with in my life a little bit.

00:05:14Marc:And then I was just here.

00:05:18Marc:I was here in the room doing that.

00:05:22Marc:And that's, you know, and then I've always realized this, but you got to talk to your friends, man.

00:05:27Marc:I mean, go out and talk to your friends.

00:05:29Marc:I mean, I look, I've told you on this show that a lot of times these conversations I have with people I don't know are the deepest conversations that, you know, I have and they're full and they're satisfying, but then the person goes away and

00:05:42Marc:And that's a there's something good about that.

00:05:46Marc:But like your friends, you know, go spend time with your friends if you have them.

00:05:49Marc:Don't just text them.

00:05:50Marc:And I'm not great at it.

00:05:52Marc:I've only got a few friends.

00:05:53Marc:But that night when that happened, I was kind of spinning and, you know, and I'd made plans with my buddy Sam Lipsight.

00:06:01Marc:A few things fell into place.

00:06:02Marc:Me and Brendan were supposed to go see a show, All My Sons, the Arthur Miller revival that my buddy Tracy Letts is in and Annette Bening, both of who've been on the show.

00:06:12Marc:Tracy and I have become friends, so I texted him to see if I could go to the show, and his wife set me up with some tickets because he doesn't like to know when people he knows are in the room.

00:06:22Marc:And Brendan had some issues with his plumbing, so he couldn't go.

00:06:25Marc:So I called my friend Sam, who I was going to see on Wednesday night, but he said he could do Tuesday night.

00:06:29Marc:So I went out with Sam.

00:06:30Marc:We went to Alex Guarnicelli's restaurant.

00:06:35Marc:This is one good thing about doing this show over the years is I don't use the relationships that much and I don't like to use people, but I will give people a heads up who I have had on the show who I like.

00:06:47Marc:Like if I'm in New York and I want to eat a good dinner, I'll text Alex Guarnicelli

00:06:51Marc:And I'll and I'll say, like, I want to go to I want to go to your restaurant.

00:06:54Marc:You're going to be there.

00:06:55Marc:I'd like to say hi.

00:06:55Marc:And she's like, no, but you can go go.

00:06:57Marc:And then it's not like they give me.

00:06:59Marc:Yeah, I still got to pay and everything, but it's nice to, you know, to say hi.

00:07:03Marc:But when you do go to a chef's restaurant, you will get sent a few good dishes that you didn't expect were coming.

00:07:08Marc:And that if you're me kind of when they arrive at the table, you go like, oh, fuck.

00:07:13Marc:How are we going to... That looks amazing.

00:07:16Marc:I had something that she calls veal bacon last night.

00:07:18Marc:It was just a slab of fatty veal meat, deeply cooked and salted with a sauce on it.

00:07:24Marc:And me and Lipsight took one bite each of it, and we looked at each other and almost started crying.

00:07:30Marc:And then we ate a fucking double T-bone, and I can't even...

00:07:35Marc:All I know is it's the day after that happened, and I don't think I need to eat today.

00:07:41Marc:I'm packed with meat.

00:07:42Marc:So anyways, my point being, Sam and I talked.

00:07:45Marc:We hung out.

00:07:46Marc:I kind of let go of whatever I was spiraling about.

00:07:50Marc:It was great to see my friend, and then we'd go see the play, which was phenomenal.

00:07:54Marc:This is the other thing I'm talking about, new things.

00:07:56Marc:It's like, I don't know.

00:07:57Marc:I'm not a theater nerd.

00:07:59Marc:I don't know.

00:08:00Marc:I haven't read a lot of Arthur Miller.

00:08:02Marc:I know who he is.

00:08:03Marc:I know what he's written.

00:08:03Marc:I've seen a couple of the big plays in one sense or another, either in a film production or live, but I never saw this one, All My Sons.

00:08:13Marc:And Tracy's in it, and it's an older play, and it's about some World War II-related story.

00:08:21Marc:But I don't know the play and I don't know how it ends.

00:08:23Marc:So I'm coming to it with completely new eyes.

00:08:25Marc:It might as well come out yesterday.

00:08:27Marc:It might as well have just been written.

00:08:28Marc:I mean, I can I could see that it was dated, but I was completely engaged to the point where when we went backstage to say hi to Tracy and Annette, you know, they were all sort of freaked out because there was a phone in the theater that apparently was ringing for six minutes.

00:08:42Marc:And I didn't even fucking notice it because I was immersed in the story.

00:08:46Marc:And that was great.

00:08:47Marc:Tracy was great.

00:08:47Marc:The cast was great.

00:08:49Marc:It's so exciting to go to theater.

00:08:50Marc:And we go backstage.

00:08:51Marc:We see them.

00:08:52Marc:And then Tracy wants to get something to eat.

00:08:54Marc:So me and Sam and Tracy, we go out to this place, Joe Allen's, for food.

00:08:59Marc:I see Michael Showalter there.

00:09:00Marc:He's with a crew of people.

00:09:02Marc:And it was like, this is my community.

00:09:05Marc:This is my life.

00:09:06Marc:And these are my friends.

00:09:07Marc:And we had a nice chat.

00:09:08Marc:And I had a good time.

00:09:11Marc:I guess that's what I'm trying to tell you.

00:09:14Marc:I had a good time.

00:09:15Marc:I've had a good time, okay?

00:09:17Marc:I'm saying it out loud.

00:09:19Marc:There was some darkness, but there was some fun, and I had it.

00:09:23Marc:Uh-oh.

00:09:24Marc:And then I'm at the hotel, and there's all these fans out front of somebody, just mostly teenage girls, it looked like, and they were waiting, and I realized it's the Met Ball.

00:09:34Marc:Apparently, some people are staying at this hotel, so there were people out there of all kinds just waiting to look at people for like two days.

00:09:41Marc:And then all of a sudden I run into Bob Saget at the hotel and I'm like, I think there's a lot of people out there waiting to see you.

00:09:48Marc:So be careful when you go outside.

00:09:50Marc:Of course, that wasn't true.

00:09:52Marc:It's Bob Saget.

00:09:53Marc:I think he's downstairs right now.

00:09:56Marc:Yeah.

00:09:56Marc:So I sat there, smoked a cigar in front of the hotel and just kind of watched as a few people got into their cars for the Met Ball.

00:10:03Marc:I did not know who they were.

00:10:05Marc:uh i they they seem to be dressed uh they were wearing theme parks almost i just don't like it was just like what's happening there this is an entire this person is is uh dressed up as a carnival of some kind and uh but it was exciting and they were excited but i literally i'm just that old man now where i'm like who is that should i know that person is that is that somebody

00:10:31Marc:That's always the great old person question.

00:10:34Marc:Is that somebody...

00:10:36Marc:That must be somebody.

00:10:38Marc:Look at that.

00:10:38Marc:They're wearing a building.

00:10:40Marc:That must be somebody.

00:10:43Marc:So I might go see another play tonight.

00:10:45Marc:I'm not going to eat any more meat.

00:10:47Marc:And right now I'm going to share with you this lovely talk I had with Maya Erskine and Anna Conkle about how they came up with their fun and moving show, Pen15, that you can stream on Hulu.

00:11:03Marc:It's got picked up for a second season.

00:11:05Marc:And kind of found out where they come from, their journey together.

00:11:10Marc:So this is me talking to Maya and Anna back in my house.

00:11:24Marc:Maya Erskine?

00:11:29Guest:Erskine.

00:11:30Marc:Erskine.

00:11:30Guest:Yeah.

00:11:31Marc:Yeah, it looks like Erskine.

00:11:32Guest:It does.

00:11:33Guest:It does.

00:11:33Guest:I don't fault you.

00:11:34Marc:Yeah.

00:11:35Marc:I'm Marin.

00:11:36Marc:You can't imagine what I've got in my life.

00:11:38Guest:Marone.

00:11:38Marc:Marone, Marin, Moron.

00:11:40Marc:But I think they know what they're doing.

00:11:42Marc:I think they know.

00:11:43Marc:They know it's not my name.

00:11:44Marc:Anna Conkle.

00:11:45Marc:Yeah.

00:11:46Marc:So I work with you on my show.

00:11:48Marc:You played the woman who had my baby.

00:11:50Guest:I did.

00:11:51Marc:Yeah.

00:11:51Marc:And that was good.

00:11:52Guest:It was, you were so nice to me.

00:11:54Marc:Oh, that last day of shooting was rough.

00:11:56Guest:Oh my God.

00:11:57Marc:Remember, you were sick.

00:11:58Guest:Oh, that's right.

00:11:59Guest:It was terrible.

00:12:00Guest:I blocked that out.

00:12:02Guest:You blacked out and blocked it out.

00:12:04Marc:It was like such a horrible day.

00:12:05Guest:And there was a baby.

00:12:06Guest:Yeah.

00:12:07Guest:Then the first baby didn't look like...

00:12:10Marc:Us.

00:12:10Marc:We had to do a racist thing.

00:12:12Guest:Right.

00:12:13Guest:Oh no, what happened?

00:12:14Marc:I'll tell you.

00:12:14Marc:Well, yeah.

00:12:16Marc:We got a baby, because when you shoot with babies, you gotta have two of them.

00:12:20Guest:Yeah.

00:12:20Marc:And they, you know, we saw pictures, and this was a baby that, like, I'm Jewish, and we were like, you know, this baby can play.

00:12:27Marc:So we hired the baby, and we shot one scene with the baby, and I'm looking at him like, you know, that baby's black.

00:12:34Marc:And they were just, that is an African-American baby.

00:12:38Marc:And I'm like, you know, unless we really change what's, you know, I understand it could be an art thing.

00:12:44Marc:Right.

00:12:45Marc:But that's not the show we're doing.

00:12:47Marc:So I had to say to the showrunners, I'm like, what are you guys thinking?

00:12:51Marc:We have to get a new baby.

00:12:53Marc:Yeah.

00:12:53Marc:So we had to.

00:12:55Guest:So you got a new baby.

00:12:56Guest:I think it'd be more racist if you kept that baby and just...

00:13:00Marc:yeah i don't know if it was racist i think yeah i don't think it's racist we were misled yes i believe i'd like to think that the yeah that we didn't get what we thought we were getting right and then the next baby was all right the next baby was nice baby yeah yeah yeah did you hold the baby i had the baby that's right held the baby and then we had the scene at the end that that last scene came out really good but we're not here to talk about my show are we but i know but i was very happy to be on it and

00:13:24Guest:And that was the first time also seeing someone making their own work and then being in their own work.

00:13:30Guest:And that was very inspiring.

00:13:32Marc:Really?

00:13:32Marc:I helped?

00:13:33Marc:Yeah.

00:13:33Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:13:34Marc:Yeah.

00:13:34Marc:So that's nice.

00:13:35Marc:We talked about it a lot.

00:13:36Marc:No, you didn't.

00:13:36Guest:No, we did.

00:13:37Marc:Really?

00:13:38Guest:Yeah.

00:13:39Guest:She was really impressed by how you were able to manage running the show, writing it, going inside, acting, directing.

00:13:48Guest:It was just something that felt then achievable.

00:13:51Guest:Yeah.

00:13:51Marc:And also, I was watching your show, and there are details in the show where I'm like, why is this like this?

00:13:58Marc:It has to be real.

00:14:00Marc:Because in my show, there's definitely a lot of real stuff.

00:14:03Marc:Not so much the season you're in, because that's speculative.

00:14:06Marc:But the details about your parents and that kind of stuff, I'm like, this isn't made up.

00:14:11Marc:How can this be made up?

00:14:13Marc:I mean, your dad, he's a real drummer.

00:14:16Guest:He is, yeah.

00:14:17Marc:But he's not a loser drummer.

00:14:18Yeah.

00:14:18Guest:No, yeah.

00:14:20Guest:He was actually in Steely Dan.

00:14:21Guest:I mean, Dan.

00:14:22Guest:Yeah, he was in Steely Dan, and it was his idea to do a Steely Dan cover band to make it look a less... Oh, really?

00:14:30Marc:Yeah.

00:14:31Marc:But I mean, it's very specific that they're playing at a pool at a hotel, so it's not... Right, right.

00:14:37Marc:So if I have one sort of weird kind of question about that character, it's like, how is he not more bitter?

00:14:44Yeah.

00:14:44Guest:Yeah, I think we could dig in more to that at some point.

00:14:49Guest:And we also thought it was funny having him be like, you know, if you want to rise to my level, like you really need to.

00:14:57Guest:And for a small town in my town, personally, like art was not celebrated.

00:15:02Guest:Yeah.

00:15:02Guest:So that seemed realistic that he could be touring.

00:15:05Guest:He could be a small town celebrity.

00:15:06Guest:Of course, yeah.

00:15:06Guest:Yeah.

00:15:06Marc:Of course he could be touring, but it's usually like, I like that he's a decent guy because usually the touring sort of low level musician, that's a sordid story.

00:15:16Guest:It is.

00:15:17Guest:It's not.

00:15:18Guest:That's true.

00:15:19Marc:But this guy seems like a well-adjusted guy.

00:15:21Marc:He's happy with his work and he's a pretty good dad.

00:15:24Marc:He's not coming home like hung over and fucked up and not wanting to talk to anybody.

00:15:28Guest:It's nice.

00:15:29Guest:Season two.

00:15:29Guest:Season two, I think we go into the reality of that because I think it's funny to see him.

00:15:33Guest:You thought about it?

00:15:34Guest:We talked about him being bitter.

00:15:37Guest:Yeah, and it sort of comes out, or maybe we didn't end up shooting that, but we wanted to shoot a scene where he kind of takes it out on me and sort of reveals that he's...

00:15:49Guest:Not as happy with where his career went.

00:15:52Marc:But he was hard on you.

00:15:53Marc:He was, yeah.

00:15:54Guest:But I think that comes from having a bit of a chip on your shoulder too.

00:15:58Guest:Sure.

00:15:59Guest:You know what I mean?

00:15:59Marc:But you didn't play it all out.

00:16:01Marc:No, we didn't go deeper into it.

00:16:03Marc:Because you do keep it around the kids.

00:16:05Marc:And I think that the idea, like when somebody told me, I saw those billboards for it.

00:16:10Marc:Do you call it pen 15?

00:16:11Marc:Yes.

00:16:12Marc:Because my girlfriend's calling it penis.

00:16:14Guest:Great.

00:16:14Guest:That's fine.

00:16:15Guest:But call it penis, penis.

00:16:16Guest:Yeah.

00:16:17Guest:Technically pen 15, but we like it all.

00:16:19Marc:But like, was that something you wrote in high school?

00:16:22Marc:I mean, what?

00:16:23Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:16:24Marc:Like pen 15 is a thing?

00:16:25Guest:Yes.

00:16:26Guest:Really?

00:16:26Guest:In middle school, you know, the cool kids would be like, hey, do you want to join my club?

00:16:31Guest:Pen 15.

00:16:32Guest:And you'd be like, yeah, of course.

00:16:34Guest:All right.

00:16:34Guest:Then they take a Sharpie and write pen 15 on your hand.

00:16:37Guest:And then you'd have penis on your hand.

00:16:39Marc:And you'd have to explain that to your parents.

00:16:40Guest:Yeah.

00:16:41Marc:No, it's pen 15.

00:16:42Guest:Right.

00:16:42Guest:I'm part of a club, you guys.

00:16:44Marc:Well, that was the weird thing is like I'd see the billboards and I was like, what the fuck is that?

00:16:49Guest:Right.

00:16:49Marc:What is that show?

00:16:50Guest:I know.

00:16:51Guest:It's not clear.

00:16:52Guest:We named it many years ago as like an ode to the rejects.

00:16:56Guest:And then it's the show kind of it's taken six years to make it.

00:16:59Guest:So it's so it's like changed.

00:17:01Guest:And yeah, six years, six years.

00:17:03Guest:Yeah.

00:17:03Marc:And the premise, the conceit is that you're in seventh grade?

00:17:07Marc:Yes.

00:17:08Marc:But you're surrounded by real seventh graders, and you guys are just you.

00:17:12Marc:You're in your 30s.

00:17:13Guest:Right, yes.

00:17:13Marc:Yeah.

00:17:14Marc:And at first, I was like, how's that going to work?

00:17:16Marc:But then within five minutes, you're like, no, it's fine.

00:17:18Marc:You forgot sometimes.

00:17:21Guest:No, I don't know.

00:17:22Guest:The wrinkles, you're just like... No, no.

00:17:24Marc:Well, that stuff doesn't matter because the challenge of playing the emotions of that age must be pretty satisfying in the actor way because Maya's character literally makes me uncomfortable to the point where I'm like... I'm so sorry.

00:17:40Guest:He just looked to the side, not at Maya.

00:17:43Marc:Yeah.

00:17:43Marc:In a good way.

00:17:45Marc:Because I think that you sort of, because your challenges are different.

00:17:48Marc:Yours are primarily parental and hers are like this weird sexual drive and menstrual problems.

00:17:55Marc:But like the way you play the sort of anger about it and the confusion about it, it's like you really sort of go there and it's sort of, it must have been, if it was awkward for me, it must have been a little awkward for you.

00:18:09Guest:I think it was awkward at first because we filmed the masturbation scenes first week.

00:18:13Guest:So we shot out of order and here I am rubbing it out in front of like 10 crew guys just like, what the fuck is this shit?

00:18:20Guest:In a bowl cut and a mustache.

00:18:21Guest:Yeah, they had no idea, you know.

00:18:23Guest:And I'm rubbing like my flat nipples with like a...

00:18:28Guest:with my little ponies like it was just an absurd thing to do and to go there but um it is actually incredibly cathartic and easy to go to those emotions because i didn't realize that those are still so raw for me like from that really time yeah so this was you're actually working through some real trauma in a way yeah someone called it a trauma which i which we love really yeah

00:18:54Marc:Well, I mean, but the same, what was your parents' situation?

00:18:58Marc:Was it like that?

00:18:59Guest:Yeah.

00:18:59Guest:But that's more the vanilla, to be honest.

00:19:02Guest:More the vanilla version of it.

00:19:03Marc:That mother character is not that vanilla.

00:19:05Marc:I mean, she's daunting.

00:19:08Guest:Malora did such a good job, but she's less based on my mom.

00:19:12Marc:Walters.

00:19:12Marc:She's like, great.

00:19:13Guest:She's amazing.

00:19:14Guest:She's great.

00:19:16Guest:I don't know why she agrees.

00:19:18Marc:I remember seeing her and being like, how did they get her?

00:19:21Marc:Well, no, no.

00:19:22Marc:It's just like, where has she been?

00:19:24Marc:Because I know they always work, but she's such a specific and great actress that I always like seeing her.

00:19:30Marc:And you're always like, why isn't she in everything?

00:19:32Guest:Right, I know.

00:19:33Marc:Because she's very intense.

00:19:35Guest:She's so good.

00:19:35Guest:She's really good.

00:19:36Guest:You do a good impression of her.

00:19:38Marc:Oh, you do?

00:19:38Guest:And it's just sort of like, hey, guys, how do you want?

00:19:41Guest:So how should I do the scene?

00:19:43Guest:so wait so it's not quite like your mom she's different my mom was more kind of it we're i think we would go there if we got another season but more into crystals and reiki and really really and and meditating and and what i think so funny about her her as a person was like she was the most you know stressed out meditator like i didn't know anyone more insane and i love her deeply and she's

00:20:09Marc:But desperate for some sort of spiritual relief.

00:20:12Guest:And honest and authentic with it.

00:20:14Guest:It wasn't bullshit.

00:20:15Guest:It was like, she really is one of the most spiritually deep people that I know.

00:20:19Guest:And I think that's kind of common.

00:20:23Guest:And she was short-circuiting.

00:20:27Guest:She worked a lot of jobs.

00:20:28Guest:She was busy.

00:20:29Guest:She had a lot going on.

00:20:30Guest:She wasn't happy in...

00:20:31Guest:the relationship with my dad, but they were married for 20 years and they tried to, but it was like, was he on the, he probably was on the couch like half of life.

00:20:40Marc:Sweeping on the couch?

00:20:40Marc:So that's a real thing.

00:20:42Guest:Yeah.

00:20:42Marc:So you had to wake up and your dad was sweeping on the couch.

00:20:44Guest:Yeah.

00:20:44Guest:And I remember my friends coming over and like being like, and I've told you this a million times, like, oh my God, I got to get the sheets.

00:20:49Guest:I can fold the sheets.

00:20:50Guest:And then like, I remember like reorganizing the family photos so that people didn't suspect.

00:20:56Guest:Yeah.

00:20:56Guest:I don't know.

00:20:57Guest:Really?

00:20:57Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:58Marc:Well, that's like, I mean, I think that's a real thing and it must be some of the benefit of doing this show is to sort of really look at those situations and understand kind of in your heart the pressures that were put on you at that age.

00:21:13Guest:Yeah.

00:21:14Marc:Because it's like, how is it not traumatic on some level?

00:21:16Marc:And how does it not really dictate the rest of your life?

00:21:20Marc:Right.

00:21:20Marc:That you're just trying to manage chaos at home or you're trying to manage not being able to talk about things.

00:21:25Marc:And then you look at the life you're living now and you're like, oh, my God, that's why I do that.

00:21:29Guest:Right.

00:21:30Guest:Yes.

00:21:30Guest:Totally.

00:21:31Guest:And I think, you know, like I've been to so much therapy and how much that time comes up.

00:21:37Guest:And that was something that Maya and I always.

00:21:40Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:21:41Guest:And you were one of the first people, women, that would talk about masturbating like at a party as like funny and like.

00:21:48Guest:Right.

00:21:48Guest:And what you were ashamed of at the same time.

00:21:50Guest:But that was my way to process through it.

00:21:51Guest:And it was the same for Anna.

00:21:52Guest:She would talk about divorce and make jokes about it.

00:21:55Guest:Right.

00:21:55Guest:And that was the way to like cut through the dark pain of just making fun of it.

00:21:59Marc:Right, but so many times, and which I think is good about the relationship you guys have in the show, is that you're still sort of the weirdos in a way.

00:22:09Marc:Because if you're that kind of person that deals with it like that, where you just bring it up, and then you've got a room full of kids going like, what?

00:22:18Marc:Like, I think so much about the show that makes it work because you guys are specifically connected and slightly off from the rest of the standard junior high hierarchy.

00:22:32Marc:But everybody, like, I'll tell you, man, the kids are great.

00:22:37Guest:Yeah.

00:22:38Marc:I mean, no, that guy, the sex player.

00:22:41Guest:Brendan.

00:22:42Guest:Brady Allen is the actor.

00:22:43Guest:He's a gem.

00:22:45Marc:He really, you know, like he holds the scene.

00:22:48Marc:Like when he's sitting on the couch, you're like, this guy's in charge.

00:22:52Guest:Yes.

00:22:53Guest:That's exactly what we want from him.

00:22:56Guest:He's in charge.

00:22:57Guest:When he nods confidently after Anna.

00:22:59Guest:It's crazy.

00:23:00Guest:Goes off to, after he hooks up with Anna, he's like.

00:23:03Guest:Yep.

00:23:04Marc:Just like... And he's so physically... I definitely know the type of guy that he was at that age.

00:23:12Marc:He was sort of like a kind of proud nerd.

00:23:17Guest:Yeah.

00:23:18Guest:You know what I mean?

00:23:18Guest:Like a cocky nerd.

00:23:19Guest:Right, right.

00:23:20Guest:And also like a man... Like a 50-year-old man.

00:23:23Guest:Like a 50-year-old man in a 13-year-old's body.

00:23:25Guest:And he kind of...

00:23:27Guest:He was a little different from his character, but he would drink like extra large Red Bull every morning.

00:23:33Guest:And he was only allowed one.

00:23:35Marc:The real guy?

00:23:37Guest:The real kid.

00:23:38Guest:And he would like level out, you know, just be so calm during the shooting.

00:23:43Marc:After the Red Bull?

00:23:44Guest:After pounding a Red Bull.

00:23:45Marc:A Ritalin effect?

00:23:47Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:23:48Marc:But where'd you grow up?

00:23:49Guest:um massachusetts and vermont mostly massachusetts like what town situate oh my god situate yeah i know situate really why i had a i had a troubled friend from situate oh well uh the dumfies arthur dumphy oh wow you don't know well no well my third grade teacher was a dumphy that's the thing there's generations yeah that's no people don't people don't leave

00:24:14Marc:Yeah, I spent a lot of time in New England.

00:24:16Marc:Like I know.

00:24:17Marc:For him?

00:24:18Marc:No, because I went to college in Boston.

00:24:20Marc:I went back and started my comedy career there.

00:24:21Marc:So I toured all over doing one-nighters all over.

00:24:25Guest:That's right.

00:24:25Guest:I remember you.

00:24:26Marc:In that weird area.

00:24:27Marc:So like how old were you when your parents got divorced?

00:24:30Guest:I was 14 when they told me and then they lived in the same house.

00:24:34Guest:They split up the house for two years while they were going to court.

00:24:37Marc:They split the house up?

00:24:38Guest:We loved it.

00:24:39Marc:How many kids?

00:24:40Guest:Just me.

00:24:41Marc:Oh, really?

00:24:42Guest:Well, I have a half brother, but he grew up at his dad's house.

00:24:44Guest:He's 11 years older.

00:24:45Guest:So when I was old enough to, you know, he was in a different state.

00:24:49Marc:Yeah.

00:24:50Marc:Which dad?

00:24:51Marc:How did that work?

00:24:52Guest:Same mom.

00:24:53Marc:Your mom had another husband.

00:24:55Guest:Had another husband.

00:24:56Marc:Before your dad.

00:24:56Guest:Before my dad.

00:24:57Marc:So she's a searcher.

00:24:59Guest:She's a searcher.

00:25:00Guest:What does that mean?

00:25:01Guest:She's searching for love.

00:25:02Guest:She is.

00:25:03Marc:Well, I mean, the spiritual quest and a couple of husbands.

00:25:06Guest:That's the thing.

00:25:07Guest:The thing that I respect about her and she's given to me, which now I go to therapy for, is like always questioning.

00:25:16Yeah.

00:25:16Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:25:17Marc:Always.

00:25:18Marc:Why be confident or secure when you're not right?

00:25:21Guest:Is it right?

00:25:22Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:25:22Guest:Right, right.

00:25:23Guest:But then always trying to find your rightness.

00:25:26Marc:Yeah, great.

00:25:27Marc:Thanks, Mom.

00:25:27Guest:But the nice part about it is she's so courageous in her quest for, she lives her life.

00:25:35Guest:She's not bored.

00:25:36Guest:She's in her mid-70s.

00:25:38Guest:She just told me the other day, she's like, I have a writing partner.

00:25:42Guest:Really?

00:25:42Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:25:43Marc:Oh no, now she's gonna make a show about daughters.

00:25:46Marc:Oh my God.

00:25:46Marc:You're gonna be producing a show.

00:25:47Guest:I'm up for it.

00:25:49Guest:Her show would be fucking crazy.

00:25:50Guest:I would love it.

00:25:51Guest:I would love it too.

00:25:53Marc:So, okay.

00:25:55Marc:Where'd you grow up?

00:25:56Guest:I grew up here in LA.

00:25:58Marc:Oh really?

00:25:58Guest:Yeah, I know.

00:25:59Marc:The whole time?

00:26:00Guest:The whole time.

00:26:01Guest:And I lived in New York for school, but then- We met in New York.

00:26:05Guest:We met in New York, but I grew up here.

00:26:06Marc:And your mom's Japanese?

00:26:08Guest:My mom's Japanese.

00:26:09Guest:And your dad's a drummer.

00:26:10Guest:My dad's a drummer from Jersey.

00:26:11Marc:That's his ethnicity, drummer.

00:26:13Guest:Exactly, drummer, jazz drummer.

00:26:14Guest:And that's her real mom in the show.

00:26:15Guest:Yeah, that's my real mom.

00:26:17Marc:Really?

00:26:18Guest:Yes.

00:26:18Marc:That's crazy.

00:26:19Guest:Who walks in while she's masturbating and says like, oh, I smell yams.

00:26:26Marc:Had she acted before?

00:26:27Guest:No.

00:26:27Guest:I mean, I had put her in my student films when I would, you know, direct little videos, but she was not an actress.

00:26:33Marc:Why'd you decide to do that?

00:26:35Marc:It seems like a big risk.

00:26:35Marc:I know Aziz did it and people do it, but it's like, it worked out.

00:26:39Guest:It was a risk.

00:26:40Guest:I mean, well, we first filmed a presentation with Lonely Island.

00:26:43Guest:That was like 15 minutes.

00:26:45Guest:Yeah, and we had maybe five people come in to audition for the mom and none of them were from Japan.

00:26:51Guest:And it was really important to me to have someone who was from Japan not put on an accent.

00:26:56Guest:And I was like, well, let's just try it, mom.

00:26:59Guest:And so I filmed...

00:27:01Guest:you know an audition tape with her like 25 tapes later you know I sent one of them and everyone was like she's great yeah okay let's try it she was game and she did great like it was surprising is she having a good time she loves it she does yeah she's she's really into it so how different is she from the character

00:27:20Guest:She's, she's pretty different.

00:27:22Guest:I feel like she's a milder version of herself and the, and the angry side.

00:27:27Guest:Yeah.

00:27:27Guest:Like I think she was scarier sometimes to me, but then she was also really tender, but there's moments where I'm like, Whoa, that is you mom.

00:27:35Guest:That's, you know, the part where she's cutting my hair and talking to me, you know, like it's okay.

00:27:41Guest:You know, that, that felt like my mom.

00:27:44Marc:Is that a real thing?

00:27:45Marc:The haircut?

00:27:45Guest:She's cut my hair before but never placed a bowl onto my head.

00:27:49Guest:I would never let that happen.

00:27:50Guest:But you had a haircut that looked similarly like... I looked like a boy.

00:27:53Guest:Yeah, I was called a boy all the time.

00:27:55Guest:Like, young sir.

00:27:56Guest:I've said this a lot.

00:27:57Marc:But I think it's also interesting that the cultural difference...

00:28:02Marc:You know, between how a Japanese household works and, you know, and then like you're the kids being, you know, fundamentally kind of like just American teenagers.

00:28:12Guest:Right.

00:28:12Marc:But your mother's sensibility is very specific and traditional in a way.

00:28:16Guest:Yeah.

00:28:17Marc:And in that, like, I think that I've not seen that before.

00:28:19Guest:Yeah.

00:28:20Guest:And I hadn't seen that either, really.

00:28:21Guest:I hadn't seen my childhood reflected in a way that I'm like, because I have this really Japanese mom and then an American dad, but he was on tour a lot.

00:28:29Guest:So I was very influenced by the Japanese culture, but then wanting to climb on to American.

00:28:35Marc:So your dad was like, is he Jewish?

00:28:38Guest:He's not, but I lied and said I was Jewish in middle school because I went to a primarily Jewish school and I really wanted to be.

00:28:43Guest:How did that go over?

00:28:44Guest:People believe me because I just said my dad is Jewish, so I would lie and say I'm half Jewish, but he's not.

00:28:49Guest:He's agnostic.

00:28:52Marc:No, but he wasn't brought up in it.

00:28:53Guest:He wasn't, and neither was my mom.

00:28:55Guest:I mean, Buddhist, I guess.

00:28:56Marc:Yeah.

00:28:57Marc:Yeah, I mean, that whole episode with the weird shrine to your grandfather.

00:29:00Marc:I mean, but is that a real thing?

00:29:02Guest:That is.

00:29:03Guest:That's like cultural.

00:29:04Guest:I mean, in every Japanese home, you'd see a shrine of ancestors.

00:29:07Guest:Really?

00:29:07Guest:And every time you go into someone's home, they light incense and you just pray to them.

00:29:12Guest:Really?

00:29:13Guest:Yeah, it's become just a cultural tradition.

00:29:17Marc:And your dad was in Steely Dan?

00:29:19Marc:He was, yeah.

00:29:20Marc:I mean, they're not really a band, but he played on some of their records.

00:29:23Guest:Yeah.

00:29:23Guest:He played, yeah, he played and toured with them.

00:29:25Guest:He's been in Weather Report.

00:29:27Guest:He's... Real jazz head.

00:29:28Guest:He's a jazz musician, yeah.

00:29:29Marc:Wait, which album is the Steely Dan records?

00:29:31Marc:Because I've had some sort of weird catharsis with Steely Dan.

00:29:35Marc:I was very against them for all of my life.

00:29:38Guest:Oh, really?

00:29:40Guest:Oh, why?

00:29:40Guest:Why?

00:29:40Guest:No, I'd love to know.

00:29:41Guest:It's...

00:29:41Marc:There's no denying the skill and the songs, but it always felt sterile to me, and there was something annoying about the perfection, which is exactly what people like about them.

00:29:54Marc:What everyone likes about them, I'm like, yeah, but I don't feel any soul.

00:29:58Marc:But for some reason, I went to a play, and they were using Steely Dan songs.

00:30:03Marc:I just heard something in a different way, and I have all the records downstairs, because I try every so often to engage.

00:30:09Guest:Oh, that's so interesting.

00:30:11Marc:And then I finally got it, and I realized, well, there's a lot of depth here, and some of these guys are really fucking playing, and I don't know what my aversion was.

00:30:19Marc:But then you got to be careful, because it'll infect your entire brain.

00:30:22Marc:If you listen to a lot of Steely Dan, that's all you can do.

00:30:27Marc:You're just going to start eating the other music in your head.

00:30:30Guest:That's so funny that you said that, because when I was a four-year-old, I don't know how old I was, but there's a video of me...

00:30:37Guest:on a hotel bed and I'm listening to Bodhisattva and I'm like having it's like midnight and I'm just bouncing on the bed going Bodhisattva Bodhisattva and I'm in this like religious you know fucking hole and it ate my brain so I definitely understand what you mean I went there did you tour with them you went on the road like once or twice yeah wait I mean what years would that be because they didn't tour a lot in the 90s yeah the mid 90s I never talked about this with you and I want to know everything we have told you I've gone on tour with my dad were you on a tour bus

00:31:06Guest:Did you sleep?

00:31:08Guest:No.

00:31:09Guest:There were hotels.

00:31:09Guest:You fly.

00:31:10Marc:So you hung out with Becker and Fagan?

00:31:14Guest:I hung out with the kids.

00:31:16Guest:I would hang out with some of them.

00:31:19Guest:But there were issues.

00:31:20Guest:I'm not going to go into it because I'm sure I'll reveal some crazy shit that my dad said.

00:31:24Guest:Are you still friends with the kids?

00:31:26Guest:No.

00:31:27Guest:We were playing in the parking lot.

00:31:29Guest:No.

00:31:30Guest:We don't have a text thread.

00:31:33Guest:It was like once.

00:31:35Guest:A support group?

00:31:36Yeah.

00:31:36Marc:So he was really on a lot of their records then?

00:31:40Guest:I cannot tell you.

00:31:41Guest:I'm so sorry.

00:31:42Guest:I think he was on a gobble.

00:31:43Marc:I can't tell you how many people that I talk to that have no idea what their fathers do.

00:31:48Guest:Really?

00:31:48Marc:Yeah, as grownups.

00:31:49Guest:Oh, I know every detail of my dad being a 7-Eleven human resource manager.

00:31:54Guest:Wow.

00:31:55Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:55Marc:That's impressive.

00:31:57Marc:A little more interesting than Steely Dan.

00:31:59Guest:It is.

00:31:59Guest:No, no.

00:32:00Guest:It really is.

00:32:01Guest:I thought the humor was that it's not, that I know about it.

00:32:04Guest:I'm actually January.

00:32:05Marc:It's a 7-Eleven human resource what?

00:32:07Guest:Manager.

00:32:08Marc:So what?

00:32:10Guest:Well, yeah.

00:32:11Guest:So he wasn't the director of human resources of the whole East Coast, although that was a goal.

00:32:20Guest:He...

00:32:21Guest:He was a manager and just like managed and trained people of like how to be a proper employee at 7-Eleven.

00:32:30Guest:So he was in the corporate world there.

00:32:34Guest:And but then we would get free Slurpees and hot dogs and stuff.

00:32:37Marc:Were they Swerpies or Ice?

00:32:38Marc:Swerpies.

00:32:39Guest:Slushies.

00:32:40Guest:Slushies.

00:32:41Guest:Yeah.

00:32:41Guest:Isn't that a 7-Eleven branded?

00:32:43Guest:You're right.

00:32:44Guest:You're right.

00:32:44Guest:I'm trying to remember.

00:32:44Guest:Jesus, you guys.

00:32:45Marc:I grew up in the Midwest and there was Ices.

00:32:47Marc:Remember I-C-E and it had a polar bear, but I don't know.

00:32:50Guest:Yeah.

00:32:50Marc:What was that?

00:32:51Guest:Was that here?

00:32:52Guest:That's also Slurpee, too, I thought.

00:32:53Guest:Oh, wait.

00:32:54Guest:Had a polar bear.

00:32:55Marc:Yeah.

00:32:55Marc:No.

00:32:56Marc:I don't know.

00:32:57Guest:I don't think so.

00:32:58Marc:No.

00:32:58Marc:There's some regional differences sometimes.

00:33:00Marc:Yeah.

00:33:01Marc:Oddly, like I was thinking about 7-Eleven the other day.

00:33:04Marc:When I see the sign, I'm comforted somehow.

00:33:06Guest:Really?

00:33:07Marc:It's everywhere.

00:33:07Marc:Well, that they're still around.

00:33:08Marc:I don't think there's as many as there used to be, but when you see them, you're sort of like, no, there's a 7-Eleven.

00:33:13Marc:I should make note of that just in case.

00:33:14Marc:Why?

00:33:15Marc:Why?

00:33:15Guest:I mean, but they're everywhere.

00:33:18Guest:It's comforting because they're everywhere.

00:33:19Guest:I guess so.

00:33:19Guest:Like I went to Japan and there were 7-Elevens there.

00:33:22Guest:Taiwan.

00:33:22Marc:Great.

00:33:23Marc:But did you go to the 7-Eleven?

00:33:24Marc:Yeah.

00:33:24Guest:Yeah.

00:33:25Guest:Yeah.

00:33:26Guest:And when you go in Asia, it's, I mean, high quality food.

00:33:30Guest:The 7-Elevens there are on another console.

00:33:32Marc:Fresh fish.

00:33:33Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:33:33Guest:Fresh fish.

00:33:34Guest:Fish cakes, you know.

00:33:35Guest:Yeah.

00:33:35Guest:But like raw fish too, right?

00:33:37Guest:Yeah.

00:33:37Guest:They have sushi.

00:33:38Guest:They have, I mean, it's.

00:33:39Guest:I think it's owned by China, a company in China now.

00:33:41Marc:What isn't?

00:33:42Guest:Right.

00:33:43Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:33:44Guest:Talk to me about it.

00:33:45Marc:But now there's raw fish here.

00:33:47Marc:Do you eat pokey at strip mall pokey places?

00:33:49Marc:I'm not going to do it.

00:33:50Marc:Strip mall, no.

00:33:50Marc:No.

00:33:51Marc:I mean, why is there?

00:33:52Marc:It doesn't matter.

00:33:53Guest:Well, I've done it.

00:33:53Guest:I've done it, but I don't plan on it again.

00:33:55Guest:Yeah, it's not good.

00:33:58Marc:All right.

00:33:58Marc:So, okay.

00:33:59Marc:So, your real mom's there.

00:34:00Marc:But also, I'm sort of fascinated with the culture, even just the food.

00:34:05Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:34:05Marc:is exciting.

00:34:06Marc:Like, there's all these nuances in the show that you're dealing with, you know, the struggles of teenage girls who are coming into themselves, but also there's a lot of cultural stuff, you know, too, that kind of, like, that I found interesting, like, when you eat at their house and you're like, what is this?

00:34:21Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:34:23Marc:The Yuzu, yeah.

00:34:24Marc:I remember, like, even, not even a cultural difference, but the first time you go to a friend's house to eat when you're that age and you're used to eating whatever garbage your parents pulled together.

00:34:33Guest:Mind-blowing, yeah.

00:34:33Marc:And you're like, what the fuck?

00:34:34Guest:Fuck.

00:34:37Marc:Your mom makes mashed potatoes?

00:34:39Marc:Right.

00:34:40Marc:From real potatoes?

00:34:41Guest:Right, not the box.

00:34:42Guest:Yeah, we talked about that a lot.

00:34:45Guest:I would have the opposite experience where I would see Gushers and all these snacks that we didn't have in our house and I'd go apeshit and just tear through so many bags of Fritos.

00:34:55Guest:Can I ask, do you remember a friend of yours coming over and being like, ew?

00:34:59Guest:Yes.

00:35:01Marc:Oh, really?

00:35:01Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:35:02Guest:Because it would smell.

00:35:03Guest:I mean, there'd be fish and they'd be like... Pickles, those weird Japanese pickles.

00:35:06Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:35:07Guest:And, you know, and also I think... That's got to be so... But I'd also, if we had ramen, like if there were fun Japanese dishes, people would be like, yay!

00:35:16Guest:Oh, really?

00:35:16Guest:Yeah.

00:35:16Marc:But like the fish would kind of... The fish would throw people off.

00:35:20Guest:The big head.

00:35:21Guest:And then you would also tell me, too, the whole thing of, like, opening the fridge, right?

00:35:25Guest:A friend coming over and opening the fridge without asking, which I love that detail.

00:35:29Guest:My mom hated that.

00:35:30Guest:I would have these friends from Crossroads, and they were, you know, pretty entitled.

00:35:33Guest:Oh, you went to Crossroads.

00:35:34Guest:I went to Crossroads, but I left because I hated it, hence our show about middle school.

00:35:39Guest:But they would just come in, and first thing they would do is open the fridge without asking and just start rifling through, and my mom would watch from a corner and just...

00:35:46Guest:shame them with her eyes of how dare they just open the fridge.

00:35:51Guest:It was such a cultural.

00:35:53Marc:It's sort of like insane what parents have to deal with and how much they have to kind of just like go with the flow sometimes.

00:36:00Marc:Because when you really think about

00:36:02Marc:Your parents, like, what did they fucking know?

00:36:06Marc:Exactly.

00:36:07Marc:I mean, like, my parents were so young when they had me, and it's just sort of like, when I think about the age that they were when I was, like, 10, and they were, like, in their 30s, I'm like, what the, like, it must have been just nuts to have, like, these strong-willed beings running around fucking up their shit.

00:36:23Guest:Yeah, masturbating in their rooms.

00:36:24Guest:Yeah, and saying they're taking a nap.

00:36:26Marc:Well, how did you like sort of whiteboard the show in terms of like, how did you outline it to deal, because these are all specific issues that happen in this time zone.

00:36:38Marc:And there's stuff that, like, I remember, but I was older, but you guys are younger than me, that when AOL first started, what was just happening and the dial-up modem and all that stuff, you know, I think it was an important episode to show because that has become literally the cultural cancer that's destroying, you know, all young minds.

00:36:57Guest:Yeah.

00:36:57Marc:And also good for them, but, like, the first...

00:37:01Marc:sort of kind of wandering into chat rooms at your age and your parents don't know what the hell you're doing.

00:37:05Guest:Right.

00:37:06Marc:And, you know, it turns out to be a sweet story, but it sort of starts.

00:37:09Guest:Could have gone a lot darker.

00:37:11Marc:But that's a very contemporary sort of memory that I don't have as a teenager, but has a lot of impact.

00:37:18Marc:And how did you guys chart out the issues that you were going to deal with?

00:37:22Guest:Well, the first thing we thought of is, okay, we might never get to do this again.

00:37:26Guest:So if we only had one season, what are all the things that are really important that happened to us that we would want to explore?

00:37:33Guest:So we would tell stories for years, really.

00:37:37Guest:She's worked on this for six years.

00:37:40Guest:Really?

00:37:40Guest:Six years?

00:37:41Guest:Six years, yeah.

00:37:42Marc:Well, let's go back for a second.

00:37:45Marc:And also, wait, Crossroads?

00:37:46Marc:How long did you go to Crossroads?

00:37:47Guest:I went from kindergarten to ninth, and I transferred to Loxa because it was a public arts heist.

00:37:52Marc:Because I don't know much about it.

00:37:54Marc:I know it's like for rich kids, I know there's sort of a permissive environment and that it's a kind of hippie aristocracy.

00:38:03Guest:Exactly.

00:38:04Marc:Progressive.

00:38:05Guest:Progressive rich people, but there are also some non-rich people, and I was one of those.

00:38:10Guest:They accept some kids.

00:38:12Marc:Celebrity children.

00:38:12Marc:A lot of celebrity children.

00:38:14Guest:There's a lot of celebrity children, a lot of producers' kids, a lot of wealth on another level.

00:38:19Guest:It's just an L.A.

00:38:21Marc:industry wealth that is... And growing up with that, because I'm a grown-ass person, and when I go to somebody's house that is of that, it's sort of like, what is this life?

00:38:33Marc:I mean, how do you...

00:38:34Guest:I mean, that's the thing is in elementary school, you didn't really see the class differences or it didn't come up.

00:38:40Guest:But once you hit middle school and people started to buy bags and all the purses, like Prada bags that, you know, these are 12-year-old kids.

00:38:48Guest:And then bought mitzvahs, bar and bought mitzvahs.

00:38:51Guest:Crazy.

00:38:51Guest:They were spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on weddings.

00:38:55Guest:Like they were massive...

00:38:57Guest:parties every weekend and so that was when wealth yeah became a huge issue for me and i felt very inadequate and i still do to this day like that that that's something that i hold on to um uh whenever i go to parties and see those people i'm like oh i'm 13 and not good enough again like it just goes right back to that um i do too but you know as you get older you realize like they're not that happy exactly right exactly and they all still hang out with each other

00:39:24Marc:Well, who else are you going to hang out with?

00:39:26Guest:You're right.

00:39:27Marc:You get to a certain level of wealth.

00:39:28Marc:I mean, who else are you going to hang out with?

00:39:31Guest:They're also some of the cheapest people I know.

00:39:34Guest:I'm just saying that's how they stay rich.

00:39:36Marc:Yeah, I guess so.

00:39:38Guest:I went into so much credit card debt just to be in a birthday party and pay for that person's part of the birthday.

00:39:45Guest:And so many memories of the richer people being like, I can't.

00:39:47Guest:I only got a glass of wine.

00:39:49Guest:Remember?

00:39:49Guest:Yeah.

00:39:50Guest:Remember.

00:39:51Marc:So then how did you guys meet originally?

00:39:57Guest:We met at NYU, and we were in the Tisch program.

00:40:02Marc:Acting program?

00:40:03Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:40:03Marc:You were both in the acting program.

00:40:05Guest:Yeah, but then we were doing experimental theater, which was very much making your own work, which I feel really kind of douchey seeing that in an all-black outfit with a turtleneck on.

00:40:13Guest:But it was a lot of rolling on the floor.

00:40:16Guest:At NYU.

00:40:17Guest:At NYU, yeah.

00:40:17Marc:Well, yeah, but that's part of the acting experience, right?

00:40:20Guest:A lot of massages.

00:40:20Marc:You massage a lot.

00:40:22Guest:First year, yeah, there was a massage class, shiatsu class.

00:40:25Guest:No, really?

00:40:26Guest:Actually, yeah.

00:40:27Guest:Yeah, you're paying a lot of money for that.

00:40:30Marc:So you went all four years?

00:40:32Guest:Yes.

00:40:33Guest:Yeah, and then we met our junior year of college, and then we became best friends, and we kind of united in a moment of feeling really insecure, and then went through breakups at the same time.

00:40:43Guest:What was that moment?

00:40:44Guest:We were creating work for this program that there was maybe 20 people and we were all making our own stuff and presenting it.

00:40:52Guest:And everybody was doing it.

00:40:55Guest:And then I was in the bathroom with diarrhea and you were too, essentially, right?

00:40:59Guest:Yeah.

00:40:59Guest:Diarrhea, yeah.

00:41:00Marc:Cool, cool, cool.

00:41:01Marc:Because did you both eat the same thing?

00:41:03Guest:No, we just both had... Anxiety.

00:41:05Guest:Anxiety.

00:41:06Guest:Deep anxiety of not... We were just talking about this in the car.

00:41:09Guest:Yeah, and of just not being like... And something I still deal with, and you were just saying the same thing.

00:41:14Guest:Diarrhea?

00:41:15Guest:Diarrhea.

00:41:15Guest:I have ideas.

00:41:15Guest:When you get anxious?

00:41:16Guest:Yeah.

00:41:17Guest:No, I don't really anymore.

00:41:19Guest:I sweat, which is happening now.

00:41:21Marc:I used to sweat.

00:41:22Guest:Really?

00:41:22Guest:How did you change that?

00:41:24Marc:I don't know.

00:41:25Marc:Botox.

00:41:26Marc:No, no.

00:41:27Marc:I mean, the more self aware you are of it, the more like I when I was in middle school.

00:41:32Guest:Yes.

00:41:33Marc:That was like my biggest fucking horror was like I was the kid with pit stains.

00:41:37Marc:Me too.

00:41:38Marc:And I went through so much, like all different deodorants.

00:41:41Marc:My dad was a doctor.

00:41:42Marc:I'm like, is there a surgery I could get to like not?

00:41:45Marc:I was so freaked out about it.

00:41:47Guest:Is there a surgery?

00:41:48Marc:Sure, they could remove your sweat glands, I guess, but it's a little much.

00:41:51Marc:And then after a certain point, I was just like, fuck it.

00:41:55Marc:And I don't even wear deodorant or nothing.

00:41:59Guest:And you don't smell or sweat.

00:42:00Guest:What happened?

00:42:01Marc:I don't smell bad.

00:42:02Guest:Well, that's good.

00:42:03Guest:You don't smell right now.

00:42:04Marc:Well, I wore patchouli and I have for decades.

00:42:07Marc:Okay.

00:42:08Marc:But the sweat thing was so embarrassing for some reason.

00:42:12Guest:Same.

00:42:12Guest:The same thing.

00:42:12Guest:It would be winter.

00:42:13Guest:It would be freezing.

00:42:14Guest:And I would have huge stains in my little limited two-looking shirt.

00:42:18Guest:Oh, no.

00:42:18Guest:And I was trying to be feminine.

00:42:20Guest:And, you know, it just felt like the opposite.

00:42:22Guest:And then I talked to my doctor, which was horrifying, which we maybe should use.

00:42:27Guest:And she prescribed me, like, medical grade.

00:42:32Marc:Dude.

00:42:32Marc:Deodorant.

00:42:33Guest:Deodorant.

00:42:33Guest:And it worked.

00:42:34Guest:It did?

00:42:35Guest:Yes.

00:42:35Guest:And I emailed my doctor recently, because you can email your doctors now, for the same thing.

00:42:40Guest:And she said, it's too dangerous.

00:42:42Guest:Yeah, it scares me.

00:42:43Guest:That scares me.

00:42:43Marc:Yeah, I remember I tried that stuff.

00:42:46Marc:And I don't know when it stopped.

00:42:47Marc:But I don't have the problem anymore.

00:42:49Marc:I don't know why it went away.

00:42:50Guest:But my stress.

00:42:51Marc:I'm scared.

00:42:51Marc:It does different things, though.

00:42:53Marc:Like over my life, like I've had back, you know, stress reaction.

00:42:56Marc:I've had tightness of chest stress.

00:42:58Marc:I've had headache stress.

00:43:00Marc:I've had tight neck shit.

00:43:02Guest:Or coughing.

00:43:03Guest:I'll cough a lot.

00:43:03Guest:I'll go through.

00:43:04Guest:I thought I had lung cancer, but it was really just anxiety.

00:43:08Guest:How'd you find that out?

00:43:10Guest:Because I was taking like herbal medicine and trying to change my diet because they thought it was acid reflux or they thought I'm a smoker.

00:43:17Guest:So they thought it was from smoking, but I didn't quit.

00:43:19Guest:And it just went away when the stress sort of transferred somewhere else.

00:43:24Marc:I'm glad that I never like I never had the vomiting or the diarrhea thing.

00:43:28Guest:Oh, you're so lucky.

00:43:30Marc:Yeah, like with stage fright or doing what I do to stand up, even at the beginning when I was terrified, I did not, you know, there's people that just like, they have to run to the bathroom.

00:43:40Guest:What about constipation?

00:43:42Guest:Does it manifest in a different way?

00:43:44Guest:No.

00:43:44Guest:Okay, sorry to go there.

00:43:46Marc:No, I mean, it usually would manifest in sweat.

00:43:49Marc:Sweat.

00:43:49Marc:Or like I had a lot of like tingling...

00:43:51Guest:I get that too.

00:43:52Guest:I get everything you just said.

00:43:54Marc:You have claw hands in the show.

00:43:56Guest:That's a real thing.

00:43:58Guest:I'll start breathing shallowly and then all of a sudden my hands go into claws.

00:44:03Marc:And you can't get them out?

00:44:05Guest:No.

00:44:05Guest:Not until the end of the audition.

00:44:08Guest:It's happened in auditions.

00:44:09Guest:There's a medical name for it.

00:44:10Guest:It's a real thing.

00:44:11Guest:Carpalpedal spasms.

00:44:12Guest:Really?

00:44:13Guest:Yeah.

00:44:14Marc:I've had the tingling limb thing is a big one.

00:44:17Marc:I just live with it.

00:44:18Guest:Anna.

00:44:18Guest:You have it too?

00:44:19Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:44:20Guest:Everywhere.

00:44:20Marc:But it's just like, and after a certain point, you're like, this is just- This is just life.

00:44:24Marc:Yeah.

00:44:25Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:25Guest:I'm tingling right now.

00:44:26Marc:I am too.

00:44:27Guest:Really?

00:44:28Marc:Yeah.

00:44:28Guest:Probably you just learned to zone it out.

00:44:30Marc:Yeah.

00:44:31Guest:Yeah.

00:44:32Guest:Well, constant tingling like in your arms.

00:44:34Guest:It's like pins and needles kind of, but like more sparkly.

00:44:36Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:44:36Marc:Wow.

00:44:37Marc:And like sometimes it's both hands and sometimes, and it's just sort of like, I guess this isn't going away.

00:44:43Guest:No.

00:44:43Marc:Because like when you have these symptoms, how many times can you go to the doctor and they're like, what?

00:44:48Marc:What?

00:44:48Guest:Yeah, I know.

00:44:49Guest:It's nerves.

00:44:50Guest:It's nerve stuff.

00:44:52Marc:And you just know that they're going to say that.

00:44:53Marc:Like, I'm going to walk in there and I'm going to say, like, my back hurts.

00:44:55Marc:I'm having some tingling.

00:44:57Marc:I'm not breathing right.

00:44:58Marc:Could you tell me what I have?

00:44:59Marc:And they're like... You're fine.

00:45:01Marc:Stop drinking so much coffee.

00:45:03Guest:That's it.

00:45:04Guest:Right.

00:45:04Guest:I know.

00:45:04Guest:I'm a big advocate for advocating...

00:45:08Marc:for yourself in medical well yeah i mean you should go to the doctor if you're really sick but right you know wait a minute you can wait a minute yeah meditate like my mom yeah and then see how you feel i don't know that's a really tough to learn is sort of like all right i feel this right now let's give it a day or two and see what happens because like

00:45:29Marc:Especially when you have the health coverage after or whatever, it's like, I can just go over to the Bob Hope Center and deal with this.

00:45:35Guest:What's that?

00:45:36Guest:How do you like the Bob Hope Center?

00:45:37Marc:It's fine.

00:45:39Guest:Do you trust them?

00:45:40Marc:Yeah.

00:45:40Guest:Okay, great.

00:45:41Guest:Why?

00:45:41Guest:Do you trust them?

00:45:42Guest:I don't know.

00:45:42Guest:I don't trust.

00:45:43Guest:I mean, I have a hard time trusting doctors, just in general, because I'm a hypochondriac.

00:45:47Guest:Me too.

00:45:48Guest:I used to be a hypochondriac.

00:45:49Guest:I check my pulse.

00:45:50Guest:Me too.

00:45:51Guest:You too?

00:45:51Marc:Do you have flutters sometimes?

00:45:53Marc:Where your heart's like, did it skip?

00:45:55Guest:It skips, yeah.

00:45:56Guest:And I'm like, oh, it just went into my throat.

00:45:57Guest:What happened?

00:45:58Guest:This is giving me anxiety.

00:45:59Guest:All right, let's calm down.

00:46:01Marc:No, I used to be a horrible hypochondriac.

00:46:03Marc:You've gotten better.

00:46:04Guest:How do you fix it?

00:46:06Marc:By taking some sort of pause.

00:46:08Marc:It's like, wait a day or two.

00:46:11Marc:Like whatever you're experiencing.

00:46:12Marc:I mean, if you're walking and your vision's relatively clear...

00:46:16Marc:If you're not falling down or coughing up blood, you might pass.

00:46:22Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:46:24Guest:I can do that.

00:46:25Guest:I've stopped looking on WebMD.

00:46:27Guest:That's a major improvement for me.

00:46:28Guest:No, you can't do that.

00:46:29Guest:No, no, I know, but I was doing that every day for a while.

00:46:31Guest:She's also, you've gotten a full...

00:46:33Guest:I haven't got a full scan.

00:46:34Guest:I would kill to get a full scan.

00:46:36Guest:I thought you got a full MRI scan.

00:46:37Guest:I went to Japan and they do, in Japan, for $800, you can get like an MRI, a colonoscopy all at once in one day.

00:46:45Marc:Well, I did that for my heart, but like you get older, things actually do happen.

00:46:48Guest:Right.

00:46:48Marc:Like, you know, you get blood tests and you're like, oh, what?

00:46:51Guest:Yeah.

00:46:52Marc:What, I got to do what?

00:46:53Marc:Yeah.

00:46:53Marc:No more of that?

00:46:54Guest:Yeah.

00:46:54Marc:God damn it.

00:46:55Marc:Then you have to adjust.

00:46:56Guest:Then you have to change.

00:46:57Guest:Yeah.

00:46:58Marc:that's when it really gets real that's when hypochondria starts to to settle down a little bit it's sort of like oh there are actual real things right and i don't have most of them when you're young you don't i know so why panic about it before it's actually coming yeah i don't know i tried to figure out you know what it what it came from because my my dad was a doctor and he was a bit detached so like one way you can communicate with them is like i'm dying

00:47:21Guest:right yeah and i think a lot of it has to do with wanting to feel comforted and but a lot of times you go to the doctor and they're like well we don't know let's do some tests you're like what do you mean right yeah what kind of tests because it's funny because i'll i'll have symptoms but then i won't quit the things that are actually bad for me like smoking so i i it's a weird i smoked forever cyclical you quit

00:47:44Marc:i did but i'm on these nicotine lozenges i have been for like a decade oh wow they're great that's great yeah but like and then you go to sleep with them like you can do them anywhere so you're just a nicotine sponge all day long you don't have to go outside you're just like half nauseous all the time it's not the nicotine for me it's the it's the oh it's the habit yeah i know yeah just but try going without the nicotine how's that go

00:48:07Guest:Right, yeah, maybe try the lozenges.

00:48:08Guest:Ow.

00:48:09Guest:Try the lozenges.

00:48:10Guest:Okay.

00:48:11Marc:I had to get blood tests for, like, I was checking my cholesterol.

00:48:14Guest:Yeah.

00:48:15Marc:And, like, fucking, like, I go to the Bob Hope, they do the test, and there's some other count.

00:48:20Marc:The white cell count's, like, fucked up, and I'm like, what?

00:48:22Marc:No.

00:48:23Marc:And she's like, I don't know.

00:48:24Marc:This wasn't happening before.

00:48:25Marc:I'm like, what does that mean?

00:48:26Marc:So then I got to go to a blood doctor and he does a test.

00:48:29Marc:And, you know, by the time I go to the blood doctor, he said, the white ones are okay, but you have a platelets problem.

00:48:33Marc:I'm like, what does that mean?

00:48:34Marc:So then I'm looking at like, and it's like some of that shit, just like some days are better than others.

00:48:40Marc:Right.

00:48:40Marc:Maybe you ate something.

00:48:41Marc:You know, I had a cut on my finger that was probably escalating, but it's like, fuck it.

00:48:45Guest:No, it's true.

00:48:45Guest:You shouldn't have a blood test once a year.

00:48:47Guest:We should have blood tests every day because it does change every day.

00:48:50Guest:I thought you were going to

00:48:51Guest:say we shouldn't do it every year we should do it like once a decade and the hypochondriac's like we should get it every minute of the day I'm just saying not every day but if we could I mean that was the whole thing with Theranos I just watched that documentary but like if you could see it a pattern with the blood that it's changing or you let go which I don't do you guys bonded around diarrhea and hypochondria is like a nice metaphor but what was the thing you had to do

00:49:21Marc:What did you say at best?

00:49:23Guest:I don't know how to say.

00:49:24Guest:So it was studying Brechtian fairy tales.

00:49:28Marc:I'm already anxious and tired.

00:49:31Guest:I know, right?

00:49:31Guest:So we had to tell a personal story through a frame.

00:49:35Guest:Like a frame that removes yourself from it.

00:49:38Guest:So there's distance.

00:49:39Guest:And me and Anna were just, you know, I kept telling stories that weren't working.

00:49:44Guest:So I couldn't even get through the first phase of it.

00:49:47Guest:And everyone had already created these amazing stories.

00:49:50Guest:And you and I on the day of the show, we had been working all night on our own things.

00:49:56Guest:And the show was like four people watching.

00:50:00Guest:I mean, it wasn't like a huge thing.

00:50:02Guest:It was in a classroom.

00:50:04Guest:But it was an intensive theater program.

00:50:07Guest:So it was very, you know.

00:50:09Marc:What's a Brechtian frame?

00:50:12Guest:So it was through, I mean.

00:50:13Guest:I couldn't tell you.

00:50:14Guest:Maya?

00:50:16Guest:It was like, so say I was telling a personal story about like masturbating and then I'd have to put it through a frame of like, okay, this is a cooking show and I somehow connect that through a cooking show of I'm telling this story, but it's in, it's sort of like what we do with Pen15.

00:50:40Marc:So it's a device.

00:50:41Guest:Yeah.

00:50:42Marc:Yeah.

00:50:42Marc:Huh.

00:50:43Marc:Now, okay, so you guys meet there, and do you start working together there?

00:50:48Marc:At Tisch?

00:50:50Guest:We made a dance together at that program, and then we were just best friends.

00:50:55Guest:Yeah.

00:50:55Guest:And then we kept talking about making our own work out of school and when we were auditioning for a theater in New York and stuff, and then we didn't.

00:51:04Guest:And then Maya eventually moved to L.A.

00:51:06Marc:Back home.

00:51:07Guest:Back home.

00:51:08Marc:Where'd you live in the city?

00:51:09Marc:Dorms?

00:51:10Guest:Dorms for a bit, and then I was in Brooklyn for a little bit in an apartment.

00:51:14Guest:East Village.

00:51:15Guest:Me too.

00:51:15Guest:West Village, Lower East Side.

00:51:17Guest:Yeah.

00:51:18Guest:Where were you?

00:51:19Marc:Second between A and B. Me too.

00:51:21Marc:Get out of here.

00:51:22Guest:Second between A and B. Where the murder was?

00:51:24Guest:No, that was on Orchard.

00:51:26Marc:You were on second between A and B?

00:51:27Guest:I was on second between A and B, and then I went to third between B and C. I just always moved a block.

00:51:32Marc:How did you live between second and A and B?

00:51:33Marc:It's so specific.

00:51:34Guest:I swear on my life, second between A and B. I loved it.

00:51:38Marc:I was there in the late 80s.

00:51:39Marc:It was insane.

00:51:40Guest:It was a shit show.

00:51:41Guest:What if it was the same address?

00:51:43Guest:What was your address?

00:51:44Guest:I'm trying to remember my address.

00:51:45Guest:I think mine was 159 East... I could be making that up.

00:51:48Guest:East 2nd Street?

00:51:49Marc:That might be right.

00:51:50Guest:Something like that.

00:51:51Marc:Was it the big building?

00:51:53Guest:I don't think it was a bit.

00:51:54Guest:Like a lot of apartments?

00:51:55Guest:No.

00:51:56No.

00:51:56Marc:Mine was a very thin building.

00:51:57Guest:Mine was thin.

00:51:58Marc:Was it right next to where they did all the can recycling?

00:52:02Guest:It was probably closer to B Avenue.

00:52:04Marc:Yeah, me too.

00:52:05Marc:And it was on the north side of the street.

00:52:08Guest:Yeah.

00:52:09Marc:Was it right next to where they were always doing something with recycling cans?

00:52:13Marc:Was there like a garage right next to it?

00:52:15Guest:No, I don't remember that.

00:52:16Marc:I'll have to like check.

00:52:18Marc:I don't remember my address.

00:52:19Guest:My window was facing the street.

00:52:22Marc:Yeah, me too.

00:52:24Guest:Guys, we lived in the same place.

00:52:26Guest:What can I say?

00:52:27Guest:We lived in the same apartment?

00:52:28Marc:Were you renting it from somebody?

00:52:30Guest:Like a landlord.

00:52:32Marc:Like a lady?

00:52:33Marc:Did somebody own the thing?

00:52:34Guest:I can't remember.

00:52:36Guest:I did it with a friend.

00:52:38Guest:They were two bedroom apartment.

00:52:39Guest:Was it two bedroom?

00:52:39Marc:No.

00:52:40Guest:Okay, so we were in a different building.

00:52:42Marc:No, it was definitely one room with a kitchen that was the hallway to the bathroom.

00:52:46Marc:right there's like a room there was a slight indention and then and then like the the rest of the room then there was a kitchen that you had to walk through to go to the bathroom like a railroad apartment wait that was mine that was your apartment well i had a toilet in a closet and there was no and i knew people that had that and then i had my also my shower was in a closet like it was literally a tiled closet yeah and you close the door and then you just it was real weird

00:53:11Marc:A woman I was dating had a shower that was actually a kitchen counter that you had to lift it up.

00:53:17Guest:Get out of here.

00:53:17Guest:And there was a tub underneath it.

00:53:19Marc:It was like in the kitchen.

00:53:20Guest:Well, that's cool.

00:53:21Marc:Yeah, I guess it's cool.

00:53:22Marc:The way we had to adapt to the space in New York.

00:53:25Guest:And you're like, thank you so much.

00:53:30Marc:I think that Laura Keitlinger had a shower in the middle of her apartment.

00:53:34Marc:she was on the show yeah i know she's great i love her i've known her forever oh yeah she's great we did comedy together for like a million years ago i mean i i've known her forever and she had yeah i've been why obviously i've been to that apartment in the 80s that as i recall when he saw talk to her ask her if there was a shower in the middle of her apartment

00:53:56Guest:But is that the one of the counter that you just said?

00:53:58Guest:Oh, just a shower.

00:54:00Marc:This is just a shower in the middle of the apartment.

00:54:02Marc:I'm pretty sure.

00:54:03Marc:I think I might have slept at her house once for some reason.

00:54:06Marc:Not in that way.

00:54:07Guest:Okay.

00:54:08Guest:No, no, no.

00:54:09Marc:All right.

00:54:09Marc:So, okay.

00:54:10Marc:So you meet there.

00:54:10Marc:You're in New York.

00:54:11Marc:And is this where you start talking about doing this show?

00:54:15Guest:No.

00:54:16Guest:No.

00:54:17Guest:I think we were talking about making theater and, you know, never did it.

00:54:21Guest:And then Maya, and we were doing like strange downtown theater.

00:54:25Guest:Then Maya moved to LA.

00:54:26Guest:But not with the school.

00:54:28Guest:No, I was like off, off, off.

00:54:29Guest:Off, off.

00:54:30Marc:You had to do that.

00:54:31Marc:It was required as artists.

00:54:33Guest:That's the only job you could get.

00:54:34Guest:We wanted it.

00:54:35Guest:By job, I mean working for free.

00:54:37Marc:This was the interesting thing to me is like, I talked to a lot of people that, that do the, you know, make shows and do stuff, but you're not, you're not in the sketch community.

00:54:46Guest:No.

00:54:46Marc:Like neither of you went through UCB.

00:54:49Marc:You weren't, you know, part of an improv crew.

00:54:51Guest:Probably because of anxiety.

00:54:52Guest:Yeah.

00:54:53Marc:No, but it's weird that like you guys were straight up actors doing that thing.

00:54:58Marc:But all this stuff that, you know, really a lot of people in comedy come from was happening.

00:55:03Marc:I mean, UCB was happening.

00:55:04Guest:Right.

00:55:05Marc:But you guys didn't even deal with that world.

00:55:08Marc:That's why it was sort of like when I saw the show, it's like one of them must be from that.

00:55:13Guest:Right.

00:55:14Marc:But you're not.

00:55:14Guest:Right.

00:55:15Marc:That's a rare thing.

00:55:16Guest:I think, well, I felt like under a rock and in the dark with all of that.

00:55:19Guest:Like I didn't, I never really knew about a lot of that stuff to be totally honest, which I know sounds ridiculous.

00:55:26Guest:Yeah.

00:55:26Guest:Was working restaurants a lot and was really busy and just trying to like do it.

00:55:30Marc:But you weren't, you weren't, you did not, you weren't seeking to be comic.

00:55:34Guest:No.

00:55:34Guest:we were actors in theater who fell at times I don't want to speak for you but like out of place because and that's why I found the experimental world was because you could because comedy and sadness for a lot of it was together you can play weird characters and that was fine my first like agent meeting I said to her you know I can play men I can play women I can play all ages and she was like bye you know because that's not

00:56:02Guest:what's traditional.

00:56:04Marc:We don't know what to do with you.

00:56:05Guest:That doesn't make sense.

00:56:06Marc:Yeah, it's too much.

00:56:07Guest:But there was room for that in experimental theater.

00:56:09Guest:You could do all that.

00:56:11Guest:So that's how we made that.

00:56:13Guest:And she's so funny.

00:56:14Guest:And so I was like, I want to make something with you that's funny because... We connected with our humor.

00:56:22Marc:Humor, yeah.

00:56:22Marc:But this is kind of...

00:56:25Marc:Kind of like informing as I'm sitting here, what makes the show different from so many vehicles created by sketch performers is that your instinct is really never to go broad.

00:56:40Marc:right so you're not doing things for the laugh in the same way a sketch performer who is trained in improvising characters and it would do it like that with which makes it more authentic which has something to do because you guys are are real actors to a degree the way you approach these roles and why it's sort of seamless is because you're acting the emotions and you're not trying to be comic characters

00:57:07Guest:Yeah, I think that was probably a misconception that I had about like UCB and improv was, you know, and why it gave me anxiety to join that was because I was like, I can't deal with the pressure to be funny.

00:57:21Guest:If I feel like I have to be funny, then I'm going to...

00:57:24Marc:clam up and i know that that's actually not the intention it's a lot of people who are in improv and sketch are like it's not about that you know but go ahead but no no no you go but but the thing is is like with years of improv you know what what they learn is like they'll and they'll say we don't play it for comedy we'll play it straight but they are so adept at at knowing exactly how they're funny

00:57:48Guest:Right.

00:57:50Marc:And it becomes sort of a character.

00:57:52Marc:They fit a certain type.

00:57:53Marc:Whereas I think you guys in this show are playing the emotions very honestly.

00:57:59Marc:It's earnest.

00:58:01Marc:And the comedy just comes from the discomfort of these girls.

00:58:07Right.

00:58:07Guest:Yeah, I think the comedy that I'm always interested in is when it's coming from a truthful place or when it's from a character or a situation as opposed to I'm not good because I respect people who can come up with really funny jokes.

00:58:23Guest:I wish I could.

00:58:24Guest:I can't.

00:58:25Guest:That's not how my brain works.

00:58:27Guest:Yeah.

00:58:27Guest:And I think a lot of times, too, the things that we've talked about this a little bit.

00:58:31Guest:I keep doing that.

00:58:33Guest:We've talked about this a little bit that that I always felt like I was laughing at the wrong times.

00:58:38Guest:So I could be watching a comedy and I wouldn't be laughing when everybody else is laughing or I'd be laughing alone.

00:58:45Guest:Yeah.

00:58:45Guest:Right.

00:58:46Guest:Or I could be watching something really sad.

00:58:48Marc:Right.

00:58:49Guest:And I could be hysterically.

00:58:50Guest:I mean, we've been in that situation before.

00:58:52Guest:So many times.

00:58:52Guest:Yeah.

00:58:53Guest:The discomfort laugh or something so sad, which is universal, which makes me think of something.

00:59:00Guest:I don't know.

00:59:01Guest:It's just so is something so insightful and tragic at the same time.

00:59:05Guest:For some reason, that's something that makes me laugh really hard.

00:59:08Guest:Yeah.

00:59:09Guest:And I think.

00:59:09Guest:It's an emotional response.

00:59:10Guest:Or something very serious.

00:59:12Marc:Yeah.

00:59:12Guest:Yeah.

00:59:13Guest:Like too serious.

00:59:14Guest:Yeah.

00:59:14Guest:And I think a lot of amazing comedians, actually, that's their in.

00:59:20Marc:Well, it's the laughter that should be crying.

00:59:23Guest:Right.

00:59:24Guest:And it's super honest.

00:59:25Guest:and that's my favorite yeah I don't really care if I'm laughing or I'm crying I love doing I love to watch something and be like just destroyed release personally yeah yeah release it makes me feel not alone it makes me feel like I'm not a freak yeah and everybody else is kind of fucked up too well I think that I think that that is what the show's about

00:59:45Marc:yeah yeah because like that's because this is where that happens every day right is middle school yeah yeah because you're like and like to play that weird kind of like because you're still forming you know like they're you know like it's like this weird pivotal thing where you're you can feel all the other kids like they're like they're just kind of coming into this you know adulthood yeah yeah

01:00:09Marc:And it's so horribly awkward.

01:00:12Marc:They have to kind of move through life with enough confidence.

01:00:15Marc:There's the insecurities of being in middle school, but you think you're kind of a grown-up.

01:00:21Guest:Right.

01:00:22Guest:And then we talk about this a lot.

01:00:24Guest:You're kind of in between childhood and teenager-dom.

01:00:28Guest:There's this space in between.

01:00:30Guest:And Maya and I realized this when we both were like, I remember, don't tell anybody, but I was super flat.

01:00:35Guest:And then...

01:00:36Guest:And then grew nipples before anything else.

01:00:39Guest:And then it was just this time of like a flat board and nipples.

01:00:42Guest:And then for someone else to go, me too.

01:00:44Guest:We had never talked about.

01:00:46Guest:It's not something I talked about.

01:00:47Guest:I felt like the only freak with that, you know, and to realize.

01:00:51Guest:I had that.

01:00:52Guest:Stop it.

01:00:53Guest:Also something that's really weird.

01:00:55Guest:What?

01:00:56Guest:This is messed up.

01:00:57Guest:What?

01:00:58Guest:I don't know.

01:00:59Guest:Well, I don't know.

01:01:00Guest:Say it.

01:01:01Guest:Well, we're all the same at one point.

01:01:04Guest:Like I was just thinking like how deeply flat I was.

01:01:07Guest:Yeah.

01:01:08Guest:And I'm not that far from it now, but it's a little different.

01:01:12Guest:And when I was a kid and how girls and boys are really similar.

01:01:16Guest:I don't know.

01:01:17Guest:Vaginas and penises sort of.

01:01:19Guest:Wasn't thinking about that.

01:01:20Guest:Okay.

01:01:21Marc:Like what were you thinking about?

01:01:22Guest:The flat bodies.

01:01:23Guest:Yeah, just like flat chest.

01:01:25Guest:Like they're all kind of the same physically from the waist up until all of a sudden you get these nipples.

01:01:34Guest:At least that's what it was for me.

01:01:36Guest:These like unlucky puff balls.

01:01:38Guest:Right.

01:01:38Guest:Is that what you called them?

01:01:40Guest:They were puff balls.

01:01:41Guest:Mosquito bites.

01:01:41Marc:Is that the name of an episode in the next season?

01:01:44Guest:Maybe.

01:01:44Guest:Unlucky puff balls.

01:01:45Guest:Yeah.

01:01:46Guest:Unlucky puff balls.

01:01:48Yeah.

01:01:48Guest:And then you try to hide them and then.

01:01:50Guest:Yeah.

01:01:50Marc:What did you do?

01:01:51Marc:Wasn't there an episode where you'd look at like one of the other girls boobs and they were definitely not.

01:01:56Guest:Yeah.

01:01:56Guest:Right.

01:01:57Guest:Because those were like balloons.

01:01:59Guest:That was me, actually.

01:02:00Guest:But that's right.

01:02:01Guest:Right.

01:02:01Guest:Filled with sand.

01:02:03Guest:Because I knew girls who had, you know, double Ds at that age.

01:02:07Guest:And that was its own nightmare.

01:02:08Guest:Everyone's going through their own, you know.

01:02:10Guest:And then you start bleeding out of your vagina.

01:02:14Guest:I mean, we don't talk about that enough for sure.

01:02:16Guest:It's a time of mourning, I think, because you're grieving your childhood.

01:02:20Guest:You're being forced to leave that.

01:02:21Guest:Oh, that period episode is crazy.

01:02:23Guest:you know you're forced to leave that behind and yet you're kind of excited to have these adult emotions but you're not able to process them yet so it's just a fucked up time and i have to assume that the giant pad moment with the the yeah there's got to be something that uh women relate to like like like sort of that moment where someone tries to help out and they're like here you go

01:02:47Marc:You're like, what?

01:02:49Guest:How do I fit this into me?

01:02:50Guest:Yeah, there's no way.

01:02:52Guest:I mean, I didn't do it for a year.

01:02:53Guest:You hid it for a year.

01:02:54Guest:I hid it for a year because I was so ashamed.

01:02:57Guest:And so I would make pads out of toilet paper that were about half a wide.

01:03:03Marc:But what in your, why didn't someone say that was normal?

01:03:07Guest:I was one of the first, I think, to get it in my year.

01:03:11Guest:So no one talked about it.

01:03:13Guest:And I just felt like a monster.

01:03:15Marc:Where was mom on that one?

01:03:16Guest:I didn't tell her.

01:03:17Guest:I didn't want her to know because I thought it would make her love me less.

01:03:21Guest:Like that was the way I understood it.

01:03:24Guest:If I become a woman, I'm no longer a child.

01:03:26Guest:I'm no longer lovable.

01:03:28Marc:Oh, not because you were menstruating, but because you were now a grownup.

01:03:32Guest:Right, like signifying.

01:03:33Marc:But you knew it wasn't abnormal.

01:03:35Guest:No, I knew it was normal.

01:03:36Guest:And I was like, oh, my God.

01:03:38Guest:Also, the reality setting in of this is going to happen for the rest of my life, like once a month.

01:03:43Guest:That is a crazy.

01:03:44Guest:Yes.

01:03:44Guest:And you think about like how we relate.

01:03:47Guest:I think about this a lot, but like bathroom stuff.

01:03:49Guest:You're not supposed to talk about it.

01:03:51Guest:Right.

01:03:52Guest:But yet all of these women are experiencing it or girls.

01:03:56Guest:And then, I mean, if a penis bled.

01:04:00Guest:Yeah.

01:04:01Guest:for days every month and you have to like actually hide it because it's not cool to just like let it out right i mean that creates that's it's weird and i will say that just you and i talking about it and putting it in the show was still scary and yet this has been something forever right and it's still weird to talk about like it still makes i don't know a lot of my best girlfriend's stories about their first period or what it looks like or what it i mean you just don't talk about it yeah yeah

01:04:30Marc:Yeah, because it's, yeah, it is.

01:04:34Guest:You're not taught it's hot.

01:04:35Guest:You know what I mean?

01:04:36Guest:And you're taught to be hot to some extent.

01:04:39Guest:Yeah.

01:04:40Guest:Yeah.

01:04:40Guest:I don't know.

01:04:41Guest:I guess guys had to hide boners in school.

01:04:45Guest:That was their thing.

01:04:46Marc:So where is with your books?

01:04:48Guest:With the book, yeah.

01:04:49Guest:Yeah.

01:04:49Marc:But that's not the same.

01:04:50Guest:It's not the same.

01:04:51Guest:No, but that's so accepted in the sense.

01:04:53Guest:And we have like, that's funny.

01:04:55Marc:You get a lot of those boners that don't come from anywhere.

01:04:58Marc:Right.

01:04:59Guest:That's got to be so weird.

01:05:00Guest:Yeah.

01:05:01Marc:But it's, it's not blood.

01:05:03Guest:Right.

01:05:04Guest:Right.

01:05:04Guest:It's not blood.

01:05:04Guest:They have to worry is, you know, leaking.

01:05:06Marc:No, I look as a dude.

01:05:07Marc:I mean, I, I don't know that I'd seen it explored that thoroughly.

01:05:11Marc:And I, I felt, uh, uh, like I was seeing something for the first time, the struggle that's

01:05:16Marc:kind of nice yeah no it's it is nice because i think that like if there's anything that's happening which a lot is in terms of uh gender sensitivity is that you know we because of whatever shame happened culturally that we don't it's hard for men to be empathetic because we can't be women right and and when you see something like that you're like oh god that's a fucking nightmare and you're

01:05:39Guest:right yeah yeah and it just we just it helps yeah it's and and the and something i was so grateful to maya for was being willing to talk about masturbating at that age in this show and it as an adult that's scaring me too and that making me sad that it scared me and then you being willing to do it and wanting us to put it in the show and all that it was i thought the great thing about that

01:06:04Marc:was, well, I'm glad you transcended the fear, but that age where you masturbate, but you don't really know why you're having the feelings.

01:06:15Guest:Right.

01:06:15Marc:Because you can't attach them to things and you're just looking at sand or whatever.

01:06:18Guest:Sand dunes.

01:06:19Marc:Sand dunes, yeah.

01:06:20Marc:I thought that was genius.

01:06:21Marc:Because, like, there is a period there where you have no sex education, but you know you can come.

01:06:25Guest:Right.

01:06:26Marc:So, like, it's not really connected to anything.

01:06:28Marc:And, like, what it turns out gets you there is, like, something sort of sweet and poetic and not filthy.

01:06:35Guest:Right.

01:06:35Guest:It doesn't matter.

01:06:36Guest:I'm just having these turned on feelings.

01:06:38Guest:And it's weird that I instinctually knew how to do it, too.

01:06:43Guest:Like, how to...

01:06:44Guest:Well, I think you do.

01:06:44Guest:Pleasure myself.

01:06:45Guest:I mean, yeah.

01:06:45Guest:We're animals.

01:06:47Guest:Yeah.

01:06:47Guest:You know how, yeah.

01:06:48Marc:It's just like, you know, you're on a bike.

01:06:50Marc:Something happens.

01:06:50Guest:Right.

01:06:51Guest:And then to come the first time is pretty powerful.

01:06:53Marc:I've been talking about it on stage lately, like about that.

01:06:57Guest:Yeah.

01:06:58Marc:For the first time.

01:06:59Marc:Well, yeah, because I stuck my dick in bath water coming out of a faucet.

01:07:03Guest:Yay!

01:07:05Marc:And it was just sort of like, what's going on?

01:07:07Marc:And I just worked.

01:07:08Guest:Wait, in the bath?

01:07:10Marc:Like the water was coming out hard.

01:07:12Marc:And I must have been like 10 or 11.

01:07:13Marc:And somehow I got it in there.

01:07:15Marc:And I just left it in there.

01:07:17Marc:And it happened.

01:07:19Guest:And you came your first time?

01:07:20Guest:Yeah.

01:07:21Guest:Did you feel like you had done something wrong?

01:07:24Guest:Or had you seen examples in the sense of or heard it in movies or whatever?

01:07:28Guest:No.

01:07:28Marc:I don't know that I felt like I did something wrong.

01:07:32Marc:You're like I cracked the code.

01:07:35Marc:Yeah, definitely.

01:07:36Marc:This is something, I'm glad I have this power.

01:07:39Marc:And I grew up with, for some reason, the Jewish kids, I don't know why, everybody was pretty open about jerking off.

01:07:50Marc:And, you know, it was always a conversation, you know, and it, no, I didn't feel much shame.

01:07:55Guest:But not the girls.

01:07:56Guest:You didn't hear a girl talk about it.

01:07:58Marc:No.

01:07:59Guest:That's the thing that we, yeah, I mean, it's not that people know this, but.

01:08:02Marc:I don't know if you talk about it amongst yourselves.

01:08:04Marc:I don't, we didn't, we didn't.

01:08:05Marc:No, no.

01:08:06Marc:Oh, we didn't talk about it with, with girls.

01:08:08Guest:Right.

01:08:08Guest:Girls didn't talk about it with each other.

01:08:10Guest:Like it was revolutionary for me in college as a progressive woman to hear Maya talk about it.

01:08:17Guest:But me talking about it, then other people would start talking about it and be like, oh my God, you too?

01:08:22Guest:Okay, so I wasn't a freak or a pervert.

01:08:24Guest:I mean, that is what is instilled in your head as a kid.

01:08:27Guest:Yeah, as a girl especially.

01:08:28Marc:I used to do, I did a joke about it because I don't have much shame about it and I know girls masturbate and I've seen them do it.

01:08:34Guest:Yeah.

01:08:34Marc:You know, in front of me.

01:08:35Guest:I would hope so.

01:08:36Guest:Yeah.

01:08:36Marc:Of course, because that's nice.

01:08:38Guest:That happens.

01:08:38Marc:Of course.

01:08:40Guest:Of course.

01:08:41Guest:Yeah.

01:08:41Marc:I used to do a joke about the first time you see a woman masturbate in front of you.

01:08:46Marc:There's sort of this moment where you're like, wow, that thing can take a beating.

01:08:51Marc:I thought it was like a delicate flower.

01:08:54Marc:You can really go at it.

01:08:55Marc:That's great.

01:08:56Guest:It's a human body.

01:08:57Guest:I mean, it's durable.

01:08:59Guest:It is.

01:09:00Guest:It's resilient, that click.

01:09:01Marc:Well, it's just the intensity of anyone's particular style.

01:09:09Marc:What I'm speaking to is I thought it had to be handled with a certain amount of deli.

01:09:12Guest:I have felt that way with penises also.

01:09:16Guest:I was so scared to hurt it.

01:09:20Guest:Oh my God.

01:09:21Guest:And I definitely hurt it.

01:09:22Guest:I still am scared.

01:09:23Guest:You did hurt it?

01:09:24Guest:yeah but by pulling on it i just like didn't i was very well that was later but i i was very handing was later the yeah it was like oh that like rubbing sticks for a fire oh yeah it worked out yeah he loved it right you said it was well you didn't know oh my god okay new trick so what i was gonna say was what was i gonna say about hurting a penis

01:09:49Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:09:50Guest:The first time I was very, very, very scared.

01:09:53Guest:And I had been, you know, slut shamed as a younger person not having done anything sexual.

01:10:01Guest:And there was a rumor that went around about me and blah, blah, blah.

01:10:04Guest:And I so I didn't end up going in that vicinity until junior year of high school, which in my town was very late.

01:10:13Guest:And we were it was like the middle of the night in the woods next to a car.

01:10:18Marc:You and a dude.

01:10:18Guest:Me and a dude.

01:10:20Guest:And he was my boyfriend.

01:10:22Guest:We had been dating for a while.

01:10:22Guest:He broke up with me soon after.

01:10:24Guest:And it was just like very dry in retrospect.

01:10:31Guest:And I just didn't, I mean, nothing happened because it was, in retrospect, it was just like, I don't know, like sandpaper on a banana.

01:10:41Guest:Yeah.

01:10:42Guest:I feel like I haven't given that many handjobs in my life.

01:10:44Guest:I mean, maybe we're going into too many personal details.

01:10:47Guest:When we get home later, I'm just going to be reeling.

01:10:50Guest:Well, I had sex before doing any of those things because I was too scared to do that.

01:10:56Guest:Do you get that?

01:10:57Marc:Yeah, handjobs are okay.

01:10:59Guest:Like, who cares?

01:11:01Marc:I'm going to be able to do better.

01:11:03Guest:That's what I always do.

01:11:04Marc:Yeah.

01:11:05Marc:And you don't want to, like, and then if they get involved and they're trying, it's just like, I'll do it.

01:11:09Marc:Like, you don't want to be that guy.

01:11:10Guest:Right.

01:11:11Marc:It's hard.

01:11:12Marc:Handjobs are difficult.

01:11:13Guest:They're hard.

01:11:14Guest:Yeah.

01:11:15Guest:Yeah.

01:11:16Guest:It's just, I think that there's, like, a fear around, because it's not your own body and you don't know.

01:11:22Guest:You don't know.

01:11:22Guest:Everybody's different.

01:11:23Guest:So, yeah, you're going to hurt them, and you might if you're me.

01:11:27Guest:I'm a master with myself, you know.

01:11:29Guest:No one will ever.

01:11:30Marc:Yeah, of course.

01:11:31Marc:Beat it, you know.

01:11:32Marc:Yeah, literally.

01:11:33Marc:So to speak.

01:11:34Marc:But okay, so how is it six years?

01:11:41Guest:Well, we didn't know how to write.

01:11:42Guest:Yeah.

01:11:43Guest:So that was part of it, honestly.

01:11:45Marc:But where did the concept come from?

01:11:46Marc:You were just sort of talking or you did a bit or what?

01:11:49Guest:No, we brainstormed with our other co-creator, Sam Zwiebelman.

01:11:53Guest:And so we came up with the idea and then decided we wanted to write the show.

01:11:59Guest:But each year we would think it would happen and it just would go nowhere.

01:12:04Guest:And it also the first script we wrote was like 58 pages with 82 characters.

01:12:09Guest:We didn't know what we were doing.

01:12:10Guest:And so it took, I don't know what, a couple of years before we got to make a presentation.

01:12:16Guest:Yeah, we got to make like a 15 minute kind of short film to see if it would work.

01:12:20Guest:And we thought that it did.

01:12:22Guest:And then so that helped.

01:12:23Guest:And it was definitely I mean, I don't think it would have been made without getting to make that short thing to show that this is a concept that could make sense.

01:12:30Guest:Right.

01:12:30Guest:And then it took two or three years to – I mean, it kind of died and came back to life many, many times.

01:12:36Guest:It's kind of a miracle it was actually made.

01:12:38Marc:And Hulu, they were into it.

01:12:41Guest:They were into it from the beginning.

01:12:42Guest:I mean, we only pitched it to three places because at the time Fox was attached and they weren't making deals with a lot of places, I guess.

01:12:51Guest:But we were lucky enough that, yeah, Hulu wanted to make it.

01:12:53Guest:And then, yeah, you just –

01:12:55Guest:I fully underestimated how long it takes, like the contract closing and stuff like that.

01:12:59Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:12:59Guest:Yeah, it's a nightmare.

01:13:02Guest:Every year I'd be like, it's going to be next year for sure.

01:13:04Guest:I got to keep it clear, and I'd be wrong.

01:13:06Marc:And when you broke it down, you just went from your personal stories, like these were the issues.

01:13:12Marc:Because each episode has a few things that were very specific to the time.

01:13:17Marc:And you got such great performances out of all the kids.

01:13:20Marc:It was kind of crazy.

01:13:20Guest:They're so good.

01:13:21Guest:We really lucked out.

01:13:22Guest:Yeah, I mean, I think that most of the episodes have moments that really happened to us.

01:13:27Guest:But, you know, we wanted it to be episodic but lightly serialized so that there was like a little bit of a story that you followed in an arc.

01:13:34Guest:And the arc was kind of needing each other to survive.

01:13:37Guest:You know, you can be a loner.

01:13:39Guest:You can be a reject person.

01:13:41Guest:But by yourself, you will die.

01:13:43Guest:Yeah.

01:13:44Guest:Right.

01:13:45Guest:With somebody else.

01:13:46Guest:That's the difference.

01:13:46Guest:I think of life and death at that point.

01:13:48Guest:And Maya and I in real life both had that person.

01:13:52Guest:So we and I feel like that with you and our real friendship, like it is that sink or swim quality to it of like, how do I get through the day?

01:14:00Guest:OK, I have my you know, that's true.

01:14:02Guest:And so we wanted that to be in there and a loss of innocence to be in there, but still retain enough innocence that if we had future seasons, we could go into more mature content later.

01:14:12Guest:While still staying in seventh grade.

01:14:14Guest:I mean, the goal would be that we would stay in seventh grade forever.

01:14:16Marc:Oh, you're not going to go to eighth grade?

01:14:17Guest:The idea is like limbo forever.

01:14:19Guest:The metaphor of how we feel as adults.

01:14:22Guest:That you never leave, but that we could continue to grow and change and hopefully tell a lot of stories and a lot of experiences through that.

01:14:29Guest:Right.

01:14:30Guest:Yeah.

01:14:30Guest:Like high school experiences, but in seventh grade.

01:14:33Marc:Oh, so that's like a conscious decision.

01:14:35Marc:Like, we're not going to go to eighth grade ever.

01:14:38Guest:For now.

01:14:39Guest:Yeah.

01:14:39Guest:Because what would happen?

01:14:40Guest:I mean, we're open.

01:14:42Guest:If you have any ideas.

01:14:44Guest:But like, what's going to happen?

01:14:45Guest:You're going to grow and you're going to grow out of...

01:14:48Guest:Some awkward period and then you're going to assimilate more.

01:14:54Guest:Probably.

01:14:55Guest:I mean, that's right.

01:14:55Guest:That's I guess you could become more of our or at least our show is about being in that middle being stuck, being stuck in between.

01:15:04Marc:Yeah, I understand that.

01:15:06Marc:And I respect that decision.

01:15:08Marc:But like it stays pretty shitty throughout high school.

01:15:13Guest:For some people.

01:15:15Guest:If you're my Erskine, I'm just kidding.

01:15:18Guest:Stay shitty.

01:15:18Guest:Yeah.

01:15:19Guest:Yeah.

01:15:19Guest:I mean, we have to think on it more.

01:15:21Marc:It seems like the hierarchies still exist and that you're still entering these weird insecure areas.

01:15:28Marc:You just know more.

01:15:29Marc:But I think it would be harder to maintain the innocence.

01:15:32Right.

01:15:32Guest:Yeah, and the freakdom changes, I think, that you cross from... Because I think the whole point in some way was you're not child and you're not teen.

01:15:43Guest:Right.

01:15:44Guest:You're in this very bizarre in-between stage where these...

01:15:48Guest:your body is changing or the surroundings and and and ideas of what you should know are changing but you don't have the ability to properly cope with it you don't know what to do and i think if we gave it enough time to get older then you would learn what to do but right who knows maybe we'll swallow our maybe the last season is well i mean you've got like a few seasons in seventh grade that you know no one's gonna

01:16:11Guest:Yeah, I think maybe that's what I was thinking too, that like we definitely have an exhausted seventh grade.

01:16:17Guest:So maybe if we felt like that, we could continue on.

01:16:20Marc:Yeah.

01:16:21Marc:Well, I loved it.

01:16:22Marc:Great job.

01:16:23Marc:Thank you.

01:16:24Guest:Nice talking to you guys.

01:16:25Guest:Nice talking to you.

01:16:26Guest:Thank you for having us.

01:16:27Marc:Yeah, sure.

01:16:32Marc:Okay, that was fun.

01:16:33Marc:I love them, and I love the show.

01:16:35Marc:Pen15 is streaming on Hulu now, and I guess we're going to be looking forward to a season two.

01:16:41Marc:I think they should grow up with the kids, though.

01:16:43Marc:They're going to have a real hard time

01:16:45Marc:With casting, because all those kids they used are that age.

01:16:49Marc:I think they should probably, you know, each season should be the next grade.

01:16:52Marc:I'm going to be the guy that, I'm going to DM Anna and tell her.

01:16:56Marc:Maybe you should just keep growing up with the kids that you've already cast.

01:17:01Marc:I think I said that.

01:17:01Marc:Didn't I tell them that?

01:17:03Marc:All right.

01:17:04Marc:No music, because I'm not home.

01:17:07Marc:Boomer lives!

01:17:08Marc:Boomer lives!

01:17:19you