Episode 1003 - Tal Wilkenfeld
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf how's it going tall wilkenfeld is here and she's a um
Marc:She's a genius bass player.
Marc:I don't know if you know her, but she's played with Jeff Beck, Herbie Hancock.
Marc:She's played with everybody.
Marc:She's just a wizard.
Marc:And she's amazing.
Marc:And she's got a new record out called Love Remains.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:And it's available now wherever you get your music.
Marc:But she's very young.
Marc:And she's just a prodigy, I guess you would call it.
Marc:Is that the word?
Marc:Not protege.
Marc:That's the other word.
Marc:Prodigy.
Marc:But but she's also a human and she just has this gift.
Marc:She's a gifted person.
Marc:And I was excited to talk to her because she's been hanging around comedy clubs for a while.
Marc:She likes comedy.
Marc:She was always a friend of the comics.
Marc:And, you know, she she hangs out.
Marc:I played music with her, but I used to see her around.
Marc:It was funny when I first saw Tal, when Jeff Ross introduced me to her, she said she was a musician.
Marc:And like really in my mind, I was like, OK, yeah.
Marc:Not totally dismissive, but just a little bit snide and condescending.
Marc:I just thought another singer-songwriter in Los Angeles, turns out she's a fucking genius.
Marc:But also, outside of that, she's going to play a song at the end in the garage.
Marc:Now, as you know, if you listen to the show, if you listen to this part of the show, I've had to move into my house.
Marc:It's a real scene up here in this spare bedroom, I'll tell you.
Marc:But Tal is going to play a song.
Marc:And then after that, instead of me playing my guitar noodling, we're going to play a very organized bit of business.
Marc:We're going to sort of do the world premiere of the song that Tal and I wrote and she produced from the new Lynn Shelton film sort of trust.
Marc:You'll be able to see the film eventually.
Marc:But, you know, it premiered at South by Southwest.
Marc:So I want to play this song.
Marc:I want to play you the song that I wrote with Tal and I was in the studio.
Marc:I was in the studio with the likes of Zach Ray and Tamir Barzilay and Jimmy Z Zavala, the harp player and Doyle Bramhall and Tal and me on guitar feeling very insecure.
Marc:I mean, I brutally like, yeah, I don't I shouldn't be doing this.
Marc:Just, you know, let let Doyle do it.
Marc:But we did it.
Marc:And the song is called New Boots.
Marc:And it will be at the tail end of this broadcast, if you're interested in it.
Marc:It's a riff on the Bo Diddley groove.
Marc:And, you know, obviously, I didn't write a symphony.
Marc:It's basically a hopped up blues number.
Marc:But I did come up with the progression.
Marc:And oddly, I riffed the original harmonica part, which stayed the riff.
Marc:But, you know, the harp player, he's a wizard, that Jimmy.
Marc:And he did it correctly.
Marc:But look forward to that.
Marc:That's going to happen for you if you stay on board throughout the entire show.
Marc:Also, last year, one of my guests was a comic I've known for a long time.
Marc:Vanessa Hollingshead.
Marc:She was on episode 922 telling her story.
Marc:It's a brutal story, but it turns out okay.
Marc:And now she's done her first Showtime comedy special, and that's airing this Saturday.
Marc:And it's a great...
Marc:It's a great thing.
Marc:She's got a hell of a tough tale to tell in her personal life, and she really came out of it on top.
Marc:She's alive, and she still works a lot, and she's funny.
Marc:The show, the special, it's called Funny Women of a Certain Age.
Marc:It's the first TV comedy special featuring six women all over the age of 50.
Marc:It's hosted by Fran Drescher, and it's on Saturday night, March 23rd at 9 p.m., and our friend Vanessa is on that.
Marc:And congratulations to her.
Marc:It's a tough road, man.
Marc:It is a tough road.
Marc:And I've got dates coming up and I've got one coming up this Saturday, this Saturday night at the Wheeler Opera House.
Marc:in aspen colorado and i'm a little tweaked about it and i'm just trying to dig into my my guts my my where the sad tugging is and you'll figure out why am i tweaked out about it at what point well let's get into that in a minute let me just tell you where else i'm going to be boulder sold out but these uk dates i think are
Marc:Some are still available.
Marc:The Lowry in Salford, England on April 4th.
Marc:Royal Festival Hall is available April 6th in London.
Marc:The Rep Theater in Birmingham, England, April 8th.
Marc:I think there's tickets for Vicar Street in Dublin on April 11th.
Marc:There might be a few.
Marc:I'm not sure.
Marc:But Aspen, Colorado.
Marc:why am i tweaked out about aspen colorado it took me a while to track it because i you know the wheel the deal is is that you know it's not a normal town it's a ski town and um tickets were moving okay but they were like don't worry about it everyone buys their tickets the day before the day of when they get off the slopes they wonder what's going on in town and they come out if there's something going on because it's a ski town and that's what you do you're kind of
Marc:You know, hold up up there and you go to the restaurant a couple of times, you go do a thing.
Marc:But, you know, it's a laid back environment.
Marc:And if there's a big show in town, even if you don't know who the guy is, why not go?
Marc:It's right down the street.
Marc:And we're here in Aspen.
Marc:Fine.
Marc:I am not the kind of comic that has any problem performing for strangers.
Marc:I'm more than happy to have a following.
Marc:I'm glad that people pay to see me.
Marc:I'm not afraid of working for people that don't know my work.
Marc:That's how I trained.
Marc:That's what we do.
Marc:That's what the job is.
Marc:You go in and you should be able to make a room full of strangers.
Marc:who don't know who you are laugh that's the job so that's not really what's bothering me obviously i want to sell tickets but then i started to realize holy shit i've been to aspen a lot and some of those times were not good times and i i think yeah i'm no psychologist or psychiatrist but i i believe there are there's a whole spectrum of ptsd
Marc:Obviously, there's the far end of the spectrum, the tragic and intense cases revolving around war and assault and all kinds of horrible things.
Marc:But there's also the more mild, I think, comedy-specific PTSD, which is like...
Marc:Did you go to that place before and just fucking tank?
Marc:Did you just fucking die?
Marc:Did you bomb badly?
Marc:And, you know, is that stuck in your heart somewhere as a precedent?
Marc:There's that kind of PTSD.
Marc:And that I think I got a little of that.
Marc:I think I got a little of that in Aspen.
Marc:This is also a big pitch for my show if you're in Aspen.
Marc:You might want to come see if I can pull myself out of the personal swamp of past trauma and rise to the occasion, which I will.
Marc:I know I will.
Marc:But I did have to feel like I did have to sort of dig a little deep to figure out why my chest is tightening over the idea of it.
Marc:Every time I've gone up there back in the day was a struggle, man.
Marc:was a struggle because it used to be the HBO Aspen Comedy Festival.
Marc:It was the biggest festival that you could be invited to.
Marc:And the first year I went there, I was a guy holding a mic for Comedy Central.
Marc:I did a couple of sets, and I was younger.
Marc:And the places were filled with about a third of the people were in show business.
Marc:A third of the people were locals.
Marc:Another third of the folks were just ski people.
Marc:I psyched myself out.
Marc:That was the first year.
Marc:And then the next year I went back with Jerusalem syndrome.
Marc:So I'm doing a one man show at a comedy festival.
Marc:I was used to doing it, you know, in a theater with lights and cues and everything.
Marc:I didn't have them.
Marc:And again, third of the people show business, some locals, some ski people watching me do this Jerusalem syndrome and
Marc:It went OK, but there was nothing relaxed about it.
Marc:And I think that same year, that was the year that, you know, that alternative comedy or what we were calling alternative comedy was very popular or it was at least a thing.
Marc:And Comedy Central did a special called Kicking Aspen.
Marc:That night in that room, and I believe it's the same fucking room that I'm going to play on Saturday, the Wheeler Opera House, where we shot kicking Aspen, or as my old friend Ross Broccoli said, dragging Aspen.
Marc:I remember exactly the decisions I made and how it went.
Marc:I was doing, you know, shows at the Luna Lounge in New York.
Marc:I was doing story-driven stand-up, which I still do, but I'm good at it now.
Marc:And, you know, in my mind at that time, it didn't have to be punchline efficient.
Marc:You know, you just had to lock in and, you know, be carried by the tail and get the laughs where they came.
Marc:And, you know, I chose this...
Marc:These longer pieces that I loved that look good on paper.
Marc:But I went out there and just ate it.
Marc:I mean, nothing.
Marc:There is a silence when you're bombing that is inexplicable.
Marc:There's almost like a vacuum to it.
Marc:These jokes are just going out and they just land, not even with a thud.
Marc:They just they sort of get sucked into a silence.
Marc:That is simultaneously with each beat that is supposed to get a laugh as it gets sucked into the silence.
Marc:Some sort of weird circuitous energy comes and starts just crushing your heart from the inside with each joke that goes out into the ether and just gets sucked in.
Marc:And what comes back is this.
Marc:this clenching in your chest, in your heart, and you're like, ah, another one didn't work.
Marc:Yeah, sometimes, you know, if you get good enough at the thing, you know, after years of experience, you can sort of unfuck yourself from a bomb in motion by, you know, drawing attention to it or changing direction.
Marc:You know, when you don't have the skill set to either absorb a failure like that or worm your way out of it through charm or diversion,
Marc:all you know is that it's happening and it's going to keep happening and you're in it and it's not going to stop and you're just going to have to ride it out.
Marc:It's almost like some part of your personality just shuts down and you're just up there and you feel it.
Marc:There's no lonelier feeling, I think, really.
Marc:In my experience, but I'm willing to bet in a lot of people's experience and to be in front of a crowd and you're there to get laughs and you're not getting none.
Marc:You're getting the opposite, which isn't, as you would think, booze.
Marc:It's just the the sort of vacuum of silence.
Marc:But maybe that's just me.
Marc:Maybe it's just part of the job, folks.
Marc:Just part of the job.
Marc:But I think perhaps that's one of the reasons I'm a little tweaked about going to Aspen.
Marc:But there is the possibility of victory.
Marc:There is the possibility I'll go and, you know, these last 15 years, I've learned something and it'll be fine, which I'm sure it will.
Marc:It might even be great.
Marc:But somewhere lodged in the back of my brain, not so much the back, seems to be right up front, or in one of the chambers of my heart, is me standing on that stage getting nothing.
Marc:Getting nothing.
Marc:So, yeah.
Marc:So that's one of the things nagging me.
Marc:And then I had this other realization.
Marc:It's not nagging me, but, you know, God, can't I just let myself be happy?
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Can't I just let myself do it?
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:There's no reason not to be.
Marc:And I started thinking about this show.
Marc:about my own capacity for relationship, for intimacy.
Marc:Like you guys listen to this show.
Marc:I honestly talk openly, more openly about myself and my heart in a way that is embracing and open and vulnerable and candid with people that come in here.
Marc:And I'm not going to see them again.
Marc:But I started thinking about myself.
Marc:who I was when I was a kid.
Marc:And this is like, I don't know, I wouldn't put this in the PTSD spectrum, but it's a weird thing
Marc:When I was younger, you know, I was a funny kid.
Marc:So I kind of had a sort of I kind of floated, you know, in between different cliques in high school because, you know, I wasn't identified with any one click and I sort of had a sense of humor.
Marc:But there were times where the other thing about having a sense of humor and being an oddball.
Marc:It's just that, you know, you want to hang out with the cool kids, whoever the hell they are.
Marc:And, you know, you watch enough after-school specials, you realize maybe they're not so cool.
Marc:Or you grow up and you realize no one's that cool, especially not in high school or junior high.
Marc:But there is this idea that, you know, you want to be one of them and you hang out with them.
Marc:So I would, you know, make them laugh and talk to them and, you know, try to be their friends.
Marc:And then, you know, you'd hang out with them for once and then you just wonder...
Marc:If you're ever going to hang out with them again or why they didn't call you back or how come they don't want to hang out with you anymore.
Marc:And I wonder if there's some part of me, a little part of my heart that just keeps reopening that wound every time I have someone over.
Marc:But of course not, because I have a place in this business.
Marc:And, you know, I'm not saying I want to hang out necessarily with everybody that comes in here, but I've definitely had some pretty amazing people in here.
Marc:And I think there must be part of me that thinks like, you know, why?
Marc:Why can't I be friends with them?
Marc:And then they come and we talk and I'm like, that was fun hanging out.
Marc:Can we?
Marc:We're not.
Marc:I'm never going to talk to you again unless I run into you at a show of some kind.
Marc:We're not going to be friends.
Marc:I wonder if there's just a little touch of heartbreak after everybody I talk to individually leaves my home.
Marc:I wonder if it's down there.
Marc:I wonder if I'm overthinking this.
Marc:So, Tal, Tal Wilkenfeld, the wizard, the bass wizard.
Marc:She's amazing, and as I said earlier, I met her at the Comedy Store, and we have since played together a couple times, and we played a song together that you can hear at the end of this, a song we wrote together and played with a group of musicians.
Marc:She has a new record out.
Marc:It's called Love Remains.
Marc:It's her new album.
Marc:It's available now wherever you get your music, and this is...
Marc:Me and Tal having a nice chat.
Marc:Enjoy it.
Marc:So let's go back because I got to understand some things.
Marc:I was a little insecure about you coming over.
Marc:Why insecure?
Marc:Because, I mean, look at my setup.
Marc:You're in studios all the time, and I've got this rinky-dink setup.
Marc:I can't even hook up my guitar pedals properly.
Marc:You've played with a lot of amazing musicians, myself being one of them.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Me, Jeff Beck, Herbie Hancock.
Marc:I'm glad to be part of that list.
Marc:But when I worked with you in the studio, it was like sort of I knew nothing.
Marc:And you knew everything, so I do sound, but I just do talk sound, but I was still like, you're a professional.
Guest:Right, well, you're a professional conversationalist.
Guest:I know, I know.
Guest:So I'm completely a fish out of water here.
Guest:Yeah, but- So we're even now.
Marc:Okay, fine.
Marc:So you grew up where?
Guest:Sydney.
Marc:In Sydney, in the city.
Marc:Still growing up, but- Big city, but you're no child.
Guest:No.
Marc:You look like a child, but you're not a kid.
Yeah.
Guest:No, I just mean I strive to always evolve.
Marc:I know, I know.
Marc:I listen to the record.
Marc:You seem to be wrestling with some things.
Marc:You're having a rough go at the emotional business.
Marc:Right?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:Clearly, I've talked to songwriters before, and I always assume they're writing about themselves, and most of them tell me they're not, but this seems like a personal record.
Marc:You're writing from your point of view.
Marc:You're not making up fictional characters' voices.
Guest:I'd say like, I can't say like 100% or 0%, like it's varying degrees for each song.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Like, yeah, like it may start off like with an experience in my life.
Guest:And then as I start writing the song, I'll adapt it to a story that best fits the concept of what I'm trying to say.
Guest:oh right and or it could happen the other way around i might watch a movie and be inspired to write a song based off of that narrative right and then it comes sort of i find a way for it to seep into one of my experiences that i've had in the past right you know so it's like a melting pot of experiences did that happen did you see a movie and write a song that was many times really yeah like what movies
Guest:I watch a lot of old classics.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Which old classic movie launched a song?
Guest:I don't remember now because I do it often.
Marc:Wait, you just watch part of a movie or watch the whole movie?
Guest:Actually, I have a habit of turning on a movie and watching it for 20 minutes, pressing pause and writing.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah, no, I do it all the time.
Marc:And it's just the dialogue or the situation?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It could be either of those things or it could be just visually what I'm seeing or how it emotionally stimulates me.
Marc:But you can't remember any of the movies.
Guest:I mean, I remember some of them, but I couldn't say like, oh, it was definitely Taxi Driver that made me write so-and-so's song.
Marc:But that was an inspirational one?
Guest:I love Taxi Driver.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Who doesn't love Taxi Driver?
Marc:What, are you going to write a love song?
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, I think I did write a few failed love songs.
Marc:Failed love songs inspired by Travis Bickle's Journeys Through Life.
Marc:Well, that's sweet.
Marc:I'm sure Scorsese and Paul Schrader and De Niro would be happy to know that they've inspired some love songs.
Marc:That was probably part of their intention.
Marc:Sydney, Australia, I've been to.
Marc:I went to Bondi, is that how you say it?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Bondi Beach.
Marc:I swam in the ocean pool.
Marc:In that pool that's right on the beach?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was nice.
Guest:Cool.
Marc:Did you swim there?
Guest:Yeah, when I was a kid.
Marc:Only when you were a kid?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But it's like ocean water, right?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:It's nice.
Guest:You know, when I was about, I guess, 13, 14, it's when I started getting into figuring out what my passion was.
Guest:And I was definitely into sports well before I was into music.
Guest:When you were a kid?
Guest:Yeah, well, I only picked up guitar at 14.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, let's see.
Marc:So you have brothers and sisters?
Guest:No.
Marc:You're only child.
Guest:I'm an only child.
Marc:Of the Sidney Wilkenfelds.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:You're Jewish.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Is there a big Jewish community there?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you grow up in Jewy?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You did?
Guest:Pretty much.
Marc:Like how Jewy?
Marc:Like we go to Shoal weekly or not twice a year like the rest of us?
Guest:Um...
Guest:I ended up being somewhere in the middle.
Marc:But your family's religious?
Guest:My grandparents are.
Marc:And they're in Sydney as well?
Guest:Were religious.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:How did the Jews of Sydney end up there?
Marc:They're there for many generations?
Guest:I mean, there's a huge South African community that came over in the 90s after what happened there.
Guest:And there's...
Guest:Which what happened?
Guest:Then there's a lot of people that came from Europe.
Guest:All my grandparents, all four of them are from Eastern Europe.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:So that was one of the sort of like, let's get the fuck out of here.
Marc:We'll go to Australia.
Marc:So your grandparents moved there from Europe or wherever.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's interesting.
Marc:So they made a choice to go to Australia as opposed to America.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Or anywhere else in the world.
Marc:Australia's a weird place to go, kind of, but I guess they were like, it's wide open and there's no Nazis there.
Marc:Let's go there.
Guest:My grandpa's a Holocaust survivor.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He escaped when he was 12.
Marc:From a camp?
Guest:Well, right before everybody else, like his mom and siblings were taken to camps.
Guest:He escaped right before.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:How'd he do it?
Guest:Ran with a bunch of friends for many months.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:I mean, he has a whole story that's fascinating, and he's one of my biggest inspirations.
Marc:Is he around still?
Guest:He actually just passed away during the making of this album.
Guest:I actually dedicated my album to my family members because both of my grandparents passed away and also a lot of good friends of mine.
Guest:So...
Marc:They all passed away?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In the past few years, I've lost a lot of people in my life.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Like about 20.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, your grandparents, you know, you kind of understand.
Marc:They're going to go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's just strange timing to lose a lot of people.
Guest:when you're doing a record yeah quickly yeah that's how i got into comedy was was like just losing a lot of friends suddenly yeah and uh one of my friends suggested that i go and see some live comedy in where you were here yeah this was only a couple years ago and that's when he started showing up at the store yeah how did your grandfather inspire this record in sense in his story
Guest:Well, it wasn't so much that he inspired this record.
Guest:It was that he bought me my first guitar, firstly, when I was 14.
Guest:And when I was 16 and I told my parents, hey, I want to leave Australia and go to America, you know, as some parents would feel nervous, I looked at my grandpa and he's like...
Guest:And I said, you've been on your own since you were 12, and you've inspired me to be independent and take care of myself, and this is what I want to do.
Guest:And he gave me the thumbs up.
Marc:He did?
Marc:Go ahead.
Marc:Go ahead.
Marc:How old was he when he did that?
Marc:Like 80?
Marc:Yeah, maybe 70-something.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:So he was the one guy?
Marc:Your parents were nervous, but he was like, go for it?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:One of my parents was more nervous than the other, but I think that, I mean, all's good now.
Guest:I was so young.
Marc:It's a normal reaction when your daughter, your only daughter, your only child wants to run away to America with a guitar bag.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But before that, you were just, what, playing soccer and stuff?
Guest:I was playing touch football.
Guest:I was into watching rugby.
Guest:I was really into long-distance running.
Guest:You did that?
Guest:Obsessed with long-distance running.
Marc:You used to do that?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Do you run now?
Guest:Like in the gym.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That's what I mean.
Marc:But you do?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it was a thing for me.
Guest:Before music, running was my thing.
Marc:That was your goal.
Marc:You were going to be a runner.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember doing these really long distance runs.
Guest:And there was especially one competition that was... I think it was like five mile or whatever.
Guest:It was a really long run.
Guest:And there was one girl that I was like...
Guest:I just need to beat this one girl because apparently she was the best, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so I went and I did this long run and I beat her.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:And as a result, I went and like, I was so excited.
Guest:I was celebrating and jumping up and down and I hurt my back.
Guest:So I couldn't run for a few weeks.
Guest:Because of your celebratory dance?
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I was like, what am I going to do now?
Guest:And I'm walking or hobbling along in my school and I see a guitar hanging in one of the rooms.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You'd never played one before?
Guest:No.
Guest:I'd never even seen anybody play a guitar.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:14.
Marc:And you'd never seen someone play a guitar?
Guest:Never.
Marc:Were you being held in a basement?
Guest:Well...
Guest:I didn't really grow up with music or TV.
Guest:It was in a very sheltered situation.
Guest:No TV?
Guest:I mean, I wasn't really allowed to watch TV because... My parents had been divorced since I was two years old.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So I only really grew up with my mom and my grandparents.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:They both kind of raised me, go back and forth.
Marc:But you knew your dad.
Marc:He was around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:And my mom was just really into academia.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Like she wanted me to be a doctor or a lawyer or something like that.
Marc:Was she in academia?
Guest:No, not really.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And so like I asked over and over if I could play guitar and it was, I got a no many, many times.
Guest:This was after I'd like walked past a guitar at the school.
Guest:Not before that, just after you- No, no, once I saw it, because I had my eye on it, and I actually grabbed it, I picked it up, and I somehow played a chord, and tears started rolling down my face, and I started writing a song, and I felt like it wasn't me even playing.
Guest:Really?
Guest:It was really spiritual.
Marc:You played a chord?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In retrospect, do you know what chord it was?
Marc:No.
Marc:How did you figure out a chord?
Marc:You're saying this was some sort of divine intervention?
Guest:It felt like that.
Marc:It did.
Guest:It really did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went home and, can I play?
Guest:Can I play?
Guest:And eventually the agreement was, okay.
Guest:You can play only after you do all your homework and maybe you'll be allowed to play for half an hour a day.
Guest:Only if you do the... It's like, okay, okay, sure, sure.
Marc:So when did you get the guitar?
Marc:When did your grandfather get it?
Guest:Weeks later, I got one.
Marc:You told your grandfather you wanted one?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and he gave you one yeah what kind was it it was like it was like a package for like you know maybe 150 dollars and you got like a really cheap fender squire or something like that with uh okay with the amp with with the amp and strap and yeah yeah right sure it was yeah oh yeah bargain yeah sure um like a stratocaster style sort of yeah yeah yeah yeah and uh
Marc:I bought that same package for my niece.
Guest:Oh, nice.
Guest:So I guess what that did was, when you have that kind of restriction, like you're about to play half an hour a day, it incentivized me to teach myself how to learn quickly and absorb information fast.
Guest:And it also taught me how to practice in my head without an instrument.
Guest:So even though I only had an instrument in my hand for half an hour a day,
Guest:I'd be playing in my head all the time.
Marc:So you didn't take any lessons?
Guest:I did.
Guest:There was a teacher at the school, and that was part of my request, was like, can I have lessons?
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's like, well, the first thing, he showed me a few chords.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And there was another girl that started at the same time as me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I guess she quit like four weeks later because she was upset with my progress compared to her.
Guest:She was comparing our progress.
Marc:It wasn't that girl you beat in the race, was it?
Guest:No.
Guest:That would have been amazing.
Marc:I don't think she could take another hit, really.
Marc:And who knows what would have happened with your excitement of beating her.
Marc:You might have lost a hand.
Guest:So he's like, well, you've learned these chords really fast.
Guest:Why don't you go and teach yourself the solo to Stairway to Heaven?
Yeah.
Marc:Without having picked any solos before, he said, go try that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He was testing whether or not you were like a wizard.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I've been playing for maybe three weeks or something.
Marc:And did you figure it out?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then maybe a couple weeks after that, he's like, can I study with you?
Guest:No.
Guest:I swear.
Guest:It was really funny.
Guest:But did you teach him?
Marc:What were you going to teach him?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Did he study with you?
Guest:No.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But it was flattering.
Guest:It was cute.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you've impressed the teacher and he quit too.
Marc:You scared one girl out of musicianship and you made the teacher quit.
Marc:Good job.
Marc:You're winning.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So then what happens?
Marc:How do you proceed from there?
Guest:At 14, you... Well, it was like, I was technically like 14 and a half, so I guess like I started, you know, writing songs and there was a jazz band that I joined and I started, there was never any guitar in the jazz band prior, but I begged.
Guest:I said like, I'll play like, you know, Freddie Green style or whatever, just like chunk chunk.
Guest:And so I did that for a little while.
Marc:But where were you learning the chords exactly?
Marc:Wait, did you have a book?
Marc:Did you just like, did they just, did you just hear them?
Guest:It was like chord shots.
Guest:Like chord charts.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Okay, right.
Marc:So you could see the little picture.
Marc:And could you read music yet?
Marc:No.
Uh-huh.
Guest:Not really.
Guest:I mean, I could kind of figure it out.
Guest:Not like sight read, but I could read notes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:So you're playing in a jazz band at 14 and a half with just the- Other school kids.
Marc:A few lessons under your belt.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you're just like, you can just do it.
Guest:A little bit.
Marc:A little bit?
Guest:I mean, yeah.
Guest:I guess it's... It's sort of embarrassing because I don't really know how it exactly happened.
Guest:It happened fast.
Marc:It was just happening.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You were like, I can hear this, I can feel this, I can do this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What jazz numbers was the 14th?
Guest:It was just all like big band songs.
Guest:I don't even remember the songs.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But like junior high, big band songs.
Guest:I guess.
Guest:And then I started like...
Guest:Because I hadn't heard much music yet, I really only had three CDs.
Guest:Was there no radio in Australia?
Guest:I literally... It wasn't part of your life.
Guest:Unfortunately, no.
Marc:But that's what you're telling me.
Marc:It wasn't so much that there was no one... There was no one encouraging me to listen to music.
Guest:It didn't interest you.
Guest:No, it interested me.
Guest:Before?
Guest:Before.
Marc:Before you started playing?
Marc:You know, like, you're making it sound like it's just like music was this alien thing.
Guest:It kind of was.
Guest:Like, no, before I was just into running.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You could only handle one thing at a time.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:Actually, that's probably very true about me.
Marc:All your energy goes into the one thing.
Guest:Kind of.
Guest:Kind of does.
Guest:I get it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So it just wasn't part of your life.
Guest:I do get really mono-focused on something that I'm interested in doing.
Marc:So that's, well, that's sort of fascinating.
Marc:So once you kind of break open to this other plane, which is music, your head's sort of like just a sponge and you have a proclivity for it.
Marc:So you just wanted to get as much in as possible.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I, the three CDs that I had was Jimi Hendrix, Are You Experienced?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And a Herbie Hancock album.
Guest:Which one?
Guest:Thrust.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And then Rage Against the Machine, Evil Empire.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So it was a very eclectic.
Marc:It's like all you need.
Yeah.
Guest:I mean, if you think about those three artists and what I sound like, it kind of sort of makes sense.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I could definitely see that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, I mean, I'd heard Hendrix.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And that's a good wide range of him.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Even if you are like on a desert island and never hear music and someone just plays you Herbie Hancock and Jimi Hendrix and Rage Against the Machine, it'll give you quite a big vocabulary.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I guess so.
Marc:So those are your records.
Marc:So you're learning all those songs too, I imagine.
Marc:Once you-
Guest:never really like learned songs like besides like me neither that's where you and i have something in the chord charts yeah like i i'll learn them if someone tells me i need to learn a song for a particular purpose but like it was never part of my practice to like learn songs yeah what was your practice just a riff and it was just to like like play along with something and i'd like you know improvise right on it yeah or make up my own stuff
Marc:So you do the jazz band thing and you've got your three CDs and you're playing some big band music.
Marc:And so who starts to turn you on to other music?
Marc:When do you start to, like at 14, 14 and a half or 15, what other stuff are you putting into your head other than those three CDs?
Guest:There wasn't much.
Guest:There were a few people listening to bands like Incubus and Tool, Ben Harper.
Guest:They were popular, like all the bands coming out of the 90s, Linkin Park was another one.
Guest:But basically until I left home at 16, that's all I'd heard.
Guest:I hadn't heard it.
Marc:Ben Harper, Linkin Park, Tool, and Hendrix, Herbie Hancock, Jimi Hendrix, and Rage Against the Machine.
Guest:And my grandparents, like when I was a kid, basically the only music that was played was classical or like really old school jazz, like big band, or not even bebop actually, just like big band,
Guest:jazz by my grandparents on my mom's side like artie shaw stan kelton i don't even know what they were playing because it was only literally from the car ride from home to school that would be the only time i'd ever hear music for like 20 minutes full jazz orchestra yeah uh-huh
Guest:And then on my dad's side, it would be classical, like Vivaldi.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Mozart and stuff like that.
Guest:That's not bad.
Guest:So I had classical since I was really young.
Guest:And now my family tell me that when I was three and I heard Vivaldi, I was singing along and tapping along.
Guest:And I looked really musical.
Marc:And then they were like, we got to put a stop to that.
Yeah.
Marc:Got to nip that in the bud right now or we're going to lose that kid.
Marc:They just stifled it out of the gate.
Marc:Now, after a huge success as a musician, they're like, we got to tell you something.
Marc:We knew you were going to be great when you were three, but we tried to really stop that.
Marc:So at 16, though, were you pissed off at them?
Marc:Were you like, fuck you guys, I'm leaving?
Marc:Or was it more like, you know, I really need to do this?
Marc:It must be hard to be the only kid and have to say that to them, no?
Guest:Well, again, I didn't really grow up with my dad, but we started hanging out when I was about 14.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Again, because I'd started playing guitar and he was like, he was super like inspired by that.
Guest:Oh really?
Guest:So he dug it.
Guest:Yeah, he loved it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I, because I was so driven to do this, like I didn't want to listen to what anybody else had to say about it or how they felt about it.
Guest:I was pretty determined.
Guest:So, you know, it was, it was tense and
Guest:But after a few years and they started seeing that I could actually have a career as a musician, everything kind of settled back down.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it was definitely tense.
Marc:But where did you get the bread to make the journey?
Guest:Well, I got a scholarship at a music school.
Guest:Basically, like, when I told my dad that I had started guitar, he's like, yeah, I heard about this music school in America.
Guest:You should check it out.
Marc:Which one?
Guest:It's called Llama.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:It's like a guitar school.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then one of the teachers just coincidentally happened to come to Australia.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And it worked out that I could get a scholarship to this school.
Marc:You met the guy?
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:How'd you meet?
Marc:Who set that up?
Marc:The teacher you scared away?
Guest:I went with my dad.
Marc:Oh, you set up an appointment kind of thing?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you sat with him in the guitar?
Guest:No, I just met him.
Guest:That was it?
Guest:And then we set up another appointment.
Marc:Where you played?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you sat there with your little squire?
Marc:And you did your business?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're just like, holy shit.
Marc:You're in.
Guest:I got in, yeah.
Guest:And then I didn't go to class that much because basically once I moved to America, I started practicing.
Guest:I went from half an hour a day to like six hours a day.
Marc:Oh, and then the whole thing just opened up.
Guest:Well, no, actually, I hurt my hand.
Yeah.
Guest:I gave myself tendinitis.
Marc:So they felt a little more secure when you moved here because you're going to school.
Marc:Did you have a sponsor?
Marc:Did you have someplace to live?
Marc:How did that work?
Guest:No, they had these places where everyone lived.
Guest:Oh, dormitory.
Guest:Yeah, sort of.
Marc:Where was the school in New York?
Guest:Pasadena.
Marc:I was out here?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:It was in LA.
Guest:Yeah, I moved to LA first.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You never went to New York?
Guest:I did go to New York.
Marc:Oh, but you moved here first to go to Lama in Pasadena because you met the teacher in Sydney and he was impressed.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you get here and within months you're like, this is bullshit.
Marc:I'm just going to play in my room.
Guest:Well, no, actually, it wasn't that.
Guest:It was like, I want to practice for six hours a day, and I did that for maybe a week, and I hurt my hand, so I had to stop playing.
Marc:Oh, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You quit guitar.
Guest:Well, I had to stop.
Marc:It hurt that much.
Guest:The doctor said, like, if you want to get better, you got to stop playing for a few months.
Marc:So a few months.
Guest:So a few months.
Guest:So it's like, what am I going to do for a few months?
Guest:Now I'm, like, in America, and I can't really play, so what am I going to do?
Yeah.
Guest:so i started like going into the drum labs and playing drums with one hand and like you know just every time i saw a bass i would kind of you know slap on it like with my right hand because my left was kind of hurting and and i and it was in that period that i decided you know what when i start playing again i think i want to be a bass player because everyone was looking at me like she's a bass player look at her look at her look how rhythmic she is on the drums and
Guest:She's slapping the bass.
Guest:She's even slapping the guitar.
Guest:She was going for the rhythmic stuff.
Guest:I could solo and stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I just was into groove.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so that's when I switched to the bass at 17.
Marc:The tendonitis period.
Marc:Thank God for tendonitis.
Marc:It forced you to get to what you really wanted to do.
Guest:I guess, yeah.
Marc:So you get better, and then you're a bass player.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You got rid of the squire.
Yeah.
Marc:Let that go.
Marc:And you went out and got, what was the first bass you got?
Guest:I actually had, it was some variation on Offender.
Guest:Then a few months later, I got a Music Man, which I liked.
Guest:And then I switched again because I went to this thing called the NAMM show.
Guest:Oh, you know the NAMM show.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And I was playing at one of the booths and turned out to be Roger Sadowski's booth.
Guest:I don't know if you're familiar with Sadowski.
Marc:I'll just pretend like I am.
Marc:Okay, good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's a bass guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's a luthier.
Guest:And he saw me play and he ended up helping me get an instrument for a lower cost because of such amazing instruments.
Guest:Yeah, but he wanted you to have one.
Guest:Yeah, he was very supportive of me from a young age.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's when I started playing Sadowski, and I played strictly that one Sadowski for about 10 years.
Marc:So this is at 17 or 18?
Marc:17, yeah.
Marc:You're 17 when you're at the NAMM show?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you impress the Sadowski fella?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it seems like you just show up places and old men are like, holy shit.
Marc:Let me make sure this young woman does whatever she needs to do to follow her talent.
Marc:That's good, right?
Marc:I guess, yeah.
Marc:Okay, so now you got a Sadowski base.
Marc:You're well equipped.
Marc:And then when do you start playing with people?
Marc:Okay.
Marc:What happens at the school?
Marc:You just disappear.
Marc:You're like, well, that girl went here for a little while and then she was hanging around the drum room and then we never saw her again.
Guest:Basically what happened was a phone call came into the school.
Guest:This is after I'd been playing for a couple months.
Marc:The bass.
Guest:Playing bass for a couple months.
Guest:And they said, there's a drummer by the name of Vito Reza coming to the school and we need you to select your best bass player and guitar player to accompany him because he can't bring a band.
Marc:Was he coming to do a clinic or something?
Guest:A clinic or something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so they asked me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Their best bass player.
Marc:Who'd been playing for three months.
Marc:Like two.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And a guitar player.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A really great guitar player.
Guest:And I had started writing like...
Guest:really pretty complicated songs with time signature changes.
Guest:I very quickly got into fusion music because when you're in a music school, the focus is to become great on your instrument.
Guest:I was just focused on that, and that kind of music, jazz and fusion, you need to have chops to play it.
Marc:Like Herbie and Weather Report?
Guest:Yeah, those are examples.
Marc:Or were you just making it up?
Guest:Well, I made a lot up.
Marc:But that was the area.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because it allowed you to be instrumental and not sort of adhere to sort of boring pop or rock structure.
Guest:I suppose.
Guest:I mean, I didn't find the other stuff boring.
Guest:I just wanted to explore my instrument more.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it's just like a different avenue.
Marc:Well, I think that's what fusion is all about.
Marc:It's like, we've got jazz.
Marc:Why don't we muffle that and ruin it a little bit?
Marc:So you're doing that.
Marc:So the guy comes.
Guest:Yeah, and I start writing these strange songs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he's like, well, let's do one of your songs and we can play like a jazz blues or whatever.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:And maybe we played a third song.
Marc:There's the drummer.
Marc:What's his name?
Guest:Vito.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Turns out he's best friends with Vinnie Colaiuta.
Guest:Do you know who that is?
Marc:From Frank Zappa's band?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's where he started.
Marc:He's a drummer as well?
Guest:He's a drummer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so...
Marc:What happens at the gig?
Marc:Let's play some of your songs and do some jazz blues.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we play the gig.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And at the end of the gig, he, he, and I already knew who Vinnie Collier was because I'd heard some of this fusion music that was going around the school that everyone was freaking out about.
Guest:And some people were calling me mini Vinnie because I was playing kind of polyrhythmic drum stuff on my bass.
Guest:And I, I, I heard some of this stuff anyway.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What band was it?
Guest:There was one project he did called Charisma and just some other random things that he played on.
Guest:Because all the drummers were obsessed with him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So Vito, at the end of the show, he's like, come on, come on.
Guest:And he's dragging me towards Vinny.
Marc:Oh, who was at the thing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's like, you got to meet this girl.
Guest:You got to meet... And I was really, really shy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was 17 and just...
Guest:Just really shy.
Guest:I'd never met like a professional musician.
Guest:I mean, this was all just starting to happen.
Guest:And I'm meeting Vinnie Coliuto, who's like everyone's like every drummer's idol.
Guest:And I was like, nice to meet you.
Guest:And he's like, well, how long have you been playing?
Guest:And I was like, two and a half months.
Guest:And he's like, well, we should play sometime.
Guest:I'm like, yeah, yeah, we should.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Um, but then a few months after that, I decided when I, cause I, I heard Wayne Krantz, who's another, like one of my favorite guitarists in, in, especially in that, in that genre.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Um, and I, and he was in New York and there was a lot of great jazz happening in New York.
Guest:And so I decided I want to move to New York.
Guest:I'm done with LA.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because Wayne Krantz was there.
Guest:Because Wayne Krantz was there and Anthony Jackson was playing bass with Wayne Krantz.
Guest:Anthony Jackson is one of the greatest bass players ever.
Guest:And I just wanted to be around that.
Guest:I wanted to be around the live jazz scene.
Guest:and all my heroes had done that same thing of going around to five clubs a night.
Marc:Who were your heroes?
Guest:Well, like Charlie Parker.
Marc:Okay, right.
Guest:Monk.
Marc:So you'd been doing some reading and listening since you were 14, getting up to speed.
Guest:All in these first few months of being in America, I'm being saturated in all this, mainly jazz and fusion music.
Marc:Because of that school, probably, and the people that were there.
Guest:Yeah, exactly, all the students.
Guest:So I moved to New York and I go every Thursday night to watch Wayne Krantz play with his band, which, you know, Anthony Jackson was playing with him a lot.
Guest:And sometimes Keith Carlock was playing drums and there were different musicians that were circulating.
Guest:Taylor Fave sometimes played bass.
Guest:There was a whole variety of musicians.
Guest:And, uh,
Guest:I started to become a little less shy because I was pretty shy when I was in LA.
Guest:So unshy enough to go up to Wayne Krantz and Anthony Jackson and introduce myself.
Marc:Well, they must have seen you hanging around.
Guest:I guess.
Guest:And then Anthony Jackson said to me, oh, I've heard of you.
Guest:Lee Rittenour in LA, he told me about you.
Guest:And I'm thinking, how did Lee Rittenour hear?
Marc:The guitar player.
Guest:Yeah, I don't even know how he heard about me.
Guest:Like, what?
Guest:but i've heard about you i've heard very good things and and i started gigging like you know i wanted to like you know two three gigs a night just as much as possible all the time any band i could find to play that would let me play with them like who are they some of them random i don't even remember any of their names now
Marc:You were just sort of a jazz bass player for hire in New York.
Guest:Yeah, but it wasn't even jazz music.
Guest:It was every kind of music that was going on in New York.
Marc:So anyone who needed a bass player and they didn't want a tour necessarily, you'd sit in and do it.
Guest:Yeah, I was there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was starting to make a living as a musician instantly.
Marc:What happened with Andy Jackson?
Guest:So then he started showing up to like every one of my gigs and sitting in the front row.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like, I'm sure other people are like, oh my God, Anthony Jackson's sitting in the front row.
Guest:Was he just trying to fuck with your head?
Guest:He was trying to show me support.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:It was kind of like a mentorship.
Marc:Isn't that weird how I always assume it's like, what's he doing?
Marc:Must have made you nervous.
Guest:No.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Guest:I was just happy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:I mean, because he was really supportive.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like, we never once picked up the bass together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He would just sit in his car with me, which I've heard is a thing with Anthony Jackson.
Guest:Like, apparently, like, Steve Gadd has told me and Vinny has told me, all these people have told me that basically Anthony likes to sit in his car and have conversations.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:That's Anthony Jackson's thing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So he'd sit in the car with me and we'd talk about music and we'd listen to records.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he'd say, it was very interesting how they played that there and not there.
Guest:What did you think about that part right there?
Guest:What would you have done?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And like just asking me, quizzing me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Musically.
Guest:And like that was my main study was just conversations.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Sitting with Anthony Jackson in his car.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It wasn't like, we never like sat down with two bases and played.
Marc:But it made you think about things differently.
Guest:I mean, honestly, I think that I was already thinking like that, but it was obviously amazing to have someone of his caliber to talk about these things with.
Guest:And like, there'd be things I'd say, he'd say, it was just a really nice conversation.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And yeah, I'm sure I learned a ton from that.
Guest:And also what was nice was, you know, I don't think that... It was kind of hard to be taken seriously as, like, a really young-looking girl.
Guest:Like, you know, people say I still look young now.
Guest:Like, I looked like a 12-year-old.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so... And he would always be like, just...
Guest:No matter what, just don't give up.
Guest:And he's like, as Steve Gad used to tell me, on your worst day, you're still a bad motherfucker.
Guest:And that's what I have to say to you, Tal.
Guest:On your worst day, you're still a bad motherfucker.
Guest:And he'd say that over and over and over again.
Guest:So he was great.
Guest:And then he eventually told Wayne Krantz about me, who was like my favorite, like absolutely my favorite.
Guest:And I told Anthony, you know, like, I really want to make a record.
Guest:I've written these songs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think it'll help me get some gigs, you know.
Guest:I've written like, I don't know, seven, eight, nine songs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do you think that like Wayne Kranz would, you know, he's like, well, just ask him.
Guest:And so, and I did, and he said yes.
Marc:To play on the record?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, well, and he's like, well, who do you want to play drums?
Guest:I'm like, well, I mean, and Keith Carlock was standing right there.
Guest:And he's like, well, you know, I'm like, you know, I've always dreamed of like playing with Vinnie again ever since he said that, you know, let's play sometime.
Guest:But I feel like I'm a little bit just, I feel nervous right now.
Guest:And he's in LA and I'm in New York and he's like, yeah, use Keith.
Guest:I'm like, yeah, well, I love Keith.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:So he said, okay, well, made the intros and they all agreed to make this record with me.
Guest:Which is really awesome.
Guest:So I made this record in a studio in New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And around about the same time, like within a few months, I was also, Derek Trucks and Othiel Burbridge, who were both playing with the Allman Brothers, they saw me play.
Marc:At one of your gigs.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And invited me to sit in with the Allman Brothers one night.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And it was mainly O'Teele that was like, I'm just going to, you know, just one night during the middle of like Elizabeth Reed, I'm just going to throw you my bass and, or you can just go and plug in yours and that'll be that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I'm like, okay.
Guest:I've never played on a stage before.
Guest:I've just played in these like, on these club gigs, right?
Guest:And so one night, you know, I guess I was, maybe I was like 19 at this point.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He just walked off the stage.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he's like, go.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're in the wings?
Guest:Yeah, I'm in the wings.
Guest:And I go up.
Guest:And we started playing Elizabeth Reed.
Guest:And I don't even think that everyone in the band knew this was going to happen.
Guest:Like Greg Allman was like...
Guest:Oh, there's this girl on the stage.
Guest:Who is this?
Guest:And next thing I know, I see O'Toole.
Guest:He's walked into the audience and he's just like smoking a joint in the audience, just watching me.
Guest:Like, yeah!
Woo!
Guest:And I start playing this song and it turns into like this 40 minute version of Elizabeth Reed, at which point, like, I guess after about 25 or 30 minutes, the whole band walks off the stage and it's just me and the bass playing solo bass for about four minutes.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Because this is what they did in Elizabeth Reed.
Guest:They let the bass do a solo by itself.
Marc:Oh, and you didn't know that.
Guest:I did know that.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And I was ready for it to happen.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But the band, half of the band didn't know that I was going to be doing this.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But Othiel just... Set it up.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So then the drums joined back in, and I continued soloing over the drums, and that was that.
Marc:Great night, though.
Guest:It was an amazing night.
Guest:Like, just at the Beacon Theater, it was my first show ever.
Guest:Like, how does that happen?
Guest:How did the crowd react?
Guest:Yeah, like, they went nuts.
Yeah.
Marc:I couldn't believe a 12-year-old was playing the bass like that.
Guest:So here I am, I guess I'm like 19, and I have a record under my belt and a recording of me with the Allman Brothers.
Guest:And they asked me back to play with them a couple times after that happened.
Guest:So I guess I did okay.
Yeah.
Guest:And then I decided, you know what?
Guest:I'd sort of played with these various jazz musicians.
Guest:There was some other people that I'd met in New York.
Guest:It was one musician.
Guest:Do you know Robert Glasper?
Marc:No, should I?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Amazing piano player.
Guest:And I remember going up to him and asking the same thing, like, hey, do you mind playing my music with me?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he agreed, which was really nice of him because he'd never heard me play before.
Guest:And him and a guy named Nate Smith played drums with me.
Marc:But people know you at this point.
Guest:I guess they know me, but I'm just fresh on the scene.
Guest:Some people were really like ... There were other musicians that were really hard on me.
Guest:They didn't want to hear me play or ... They just weren't going to take it.
Guest:They didn't want to hear this 12-year-old girl play the electric bass in a jazz club where it was only supposed to be upright bass.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Some people gave me a hard time, but there were people like Robert Glasper and Nate Smith and the like that were really, really nice to me and played my music with me and were very encouraging.
Guest:So that's nice.
Guest:And then I decided I wanted to go back to L.A.
Guest:So because I had then discovered, you know what, like that's the place where like the industry is, there's where like all the gigs are, like the real gigs, not like the playing in clubs for a hundred bucks a gig thing.
Guest:Like I wanted to do some like some other kinds of gigs.
Guest:And so I went back to LA at a certain point.
Guest:I'm like, I really should call Vinny now that I'm, now that I'm back.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And I did.
Guest:I said, hey, I'm back in LA and I have this new record.
Marc:This is the one you did with Wayne Krantz or the one you did with Nate?
Marc:The one with Wayne Krantz.
Guest:And I had this thing with the Allman Brothers.
Guest:Is it cool?
Guest:Could I maybe play you this stuff?
Guest:And he said, cool.
Guest:So we met at a Starbucks or something.
Guest:And I played him the music and he's like, wow.
Guest:He was very impressed.
Guest:He's like, let's get together and play.
Guest:So I met up with him and we had a jam, I don't know, for maybe 45 minutes.
Guest:Just bass and drums?
Guest:Just bass and drums.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I guess he wanted to just see if I could hang.
Guest:Keep up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was very supportive.
Uh-huh.
Guest:And maybe like a few weeks later, I get this call from Vinnie saying that Jeff Beck was looking for a bass player for this one gig and Pino couldn't make it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was for Eric Clapton's Crossroads Festival.
Marc:Sure, the benefit festival for the drug rehab.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All the guitar players go.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So he's like, can you send the management your material, like the Allman Brothers thing and the album, just what you played to me?
Guest:Send it over.
Guest:And so I did.
Guest:And I got the call that they want to audition me in England.
Marc:Jeff does.
Guest:Yeah, Jeff Beck.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So I quickly learn all of his stuff because I wasn't really familiar with his music yet.
Guest:So I learned all of his stuff.
Guest:I looked through the set list and saw what he was playing and learned maybe like 25 songs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And this is one of the funniest stories of my career, actually.
Guest:So I'm really hungry as we're about to get on the plane.
Guest:It's me and Vinny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we're going to play with Jeff Beck.
Marc:In London.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Because I think he may have had some other gigs up his sleeve, but- Who, Beck?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he didn't mention them.
Guest:It was just the crossroads.
Guest:So I'm saying, I'm really hungry.
Guest:I need some, I want some pizza or something.
Guest:He's like, why don't you just eat on the plane?
Guest:I'm like, no, no, no.
Guest:I'm really hungry now.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So we went to Wolfgang Puck.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And I ordered a chicken pizza, like, I don't know, barbecued chicken.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And I ate like two or three slices and then we were on the plane.
Guest:And Vinny starts talking about, you know, Vinny's very passionate about politics.
Guest:And he was just raving on about something or other.
Guest:And I'm just sitting there listening to him.
Guest:I'm like, hey, Vinny, I'm feeling kind of sick right now.
Guest:And he's like, oh, oh, really?
Guest:Well, anyway, so then this happened and he goes back to his story.
Guest:And I said, excuse me.
Guest:And I grab a bag and I throw up in the bag and I hold the bag up next to my hand.
Guest:I say, there it is.
Guest:And he's like, there what is?
Guest:There what is?
Guest:And I said, oh, I just threw up in the bag.
Guest:Oh,
Guest:I'll see you in about 10 hours.
Guest:Ran to the bathroom.
Guest:I'm literally going the whole flight.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:It was terrible.
Marc:Food poisoning.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To the point where by the time the plane landed, I basically fell down the stairs of the plane, like onto my knees, started throwing up again.
Guest:And an ambulance took me.
Guest:And then Vinny was obviously coming with me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We bypassed immigration.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And went straight to the hospital.
Guest:It was so funny.
Guest:I get to the hospital.
Guest:Jeff Beck's manager is there.
Guest:He's like, oh, well, nice to meet you.
Guest:I've already got a drip in my arm at this point.
Guest:He's like, I'll come in the morning and collect you.
Guest:Vinny got checked into a hotel down the street.
Guest:I get picked up at like 7 a.m.
Guest:I'm like, pretty.
Marc:Did it pass?
Guest:Yeah, but I still felt really weird the next day.
Marc:Yeah, you were all dehydrated and fucked up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he's like, okay, we'll drive now to Jeff's.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So it's like three hours in a car and I'm feeling... So we knock on Jeff's door and it's like, righto, let's go and play some music.
Guest:I'm thinking like, oh, I thought we're going to just hang out for a second.
Guest:I could unwind from...
Guest:no it's straight up to the to the roof for this this top floor where he sets all this stuff up and we'll play and so we started playing and i i you know it was fine it was it was great it was immediate chemistry yeah and he points to me during the stevie wonder song he does called cause we've ended his lovers oh okay and he says solo and so i start soloing on it
Guest:And he was really into it, so he kept that in his set.
Guest:So not only did I get hired for the Clapton show, but he kept the solo in the show and then booked a whole tour that I was then a part of.
Guest:And I was playing this solo every night.
Guest:There was a video that went around of me playing a solo on that song at Crossroads and then again at Ronnie Scott's club a few months later and that kind of got a lot of attention online and pretty much...
Guest:became like another calling card because from that Herbie Hancock called me to do Live at Abbey Road with him and Prince saw that and that's how Prince called me and I started getting a lot of gigs from people seeing that video.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you're confident at this point, obviously.
Marc:You've got chops, you've got road experience now.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I'd been playing bass for like two years at this point.
Marc:But I mean, in the big picture, that's... Two whole years!
Marc:But whatever it is, this gift that you have enabled you to sort of really kind of do the exploring you wanted to do and gain the confidence that you needed to show up for these things without being intimidated.
Marc:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I actually think that the fact that I didn't grow up listening to... I didn't grow up with The Stones and with Dylan even or Jeff Beck.
Guest:I didn't grow up listening to these musicians.
Guest:So when I was meeting them and performing with them...
Guest:I treated them like my peers.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Obviously, I was thoroughly impressed with their musicality, but I wasn't looking at them as people that I'd read about in a book or had seen on TV.
Guest:They were just people I'd be meeting like, oh, wow, yeah, he's a great guitar player.
Marc:Right, you had no history with loving their music.
Guest:Yeah, let me just join in on the fun here.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I think that that's what they liked about playing with me, too, is that I wasn't treating them any differently.
Guest:Just a nice musical conversation.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, that's a very unique thing.
Marc:That's where it sort of pays off.
Marc:because I've had that experience talking to people.
Marc:You talked to Bruce Springsteen about me, and he said that the reason he treated me differently was because I pushed him.
Marc:And one of the reasons was, as much as I like Bruce, I wasn't a Bruce fanatic.
Marc:I knew Bruce, I liked the music, but I wasn't like, holy shit, Bruce Springsteen.
Marc:So when I see a lot of these people,
Marc:Other than Keith Richards, which that interview is probably unbearable to listen to because I was beside myself.
Marc:But it was just a person.
Marc:And I think that makes a big difference with those guys and women who rarely get treated like that by anybody.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I remember when I did the, I think it was the 25th anniversary Hall of Fame show.
Guest:We were playing at Madison Square Garden.
Guest:I guess this was in 2009.
Guest:And I was playing with Jeff Beck and we were backing up Sting, Buddy Guy, a whole bunch of people.
Guest:And actually that was the first time I met Bruce Springsteen is he came up to me afterwards and was really nice to me.
Guest:And there was this huge after party that happened after the show.
Guest:And I remember two of my good friends came with me to this party.
Guest:I had one on each arm.
Guest:We were like, yeah, that was fun.
Guest:Yeah, we just played Madison Square Garden and blah, blah, blah.
Guest:And we're going up the stairs.
Guest:And this guy comes up to me like, hey, yeah, I saw you play in LA.
Guest:That was a great show.
Guest:I'm like, yeah, thanks.
Guest:Yeah, and I saw you play tonight again.
Guest:Fantastic, fantastic.
Guest:I was like, cool, thanks.
Guest:I'm Tal.
Guest:What's your name?
Guest:Mick.
Guest:And he walks away.
Guest:And my friends just look at me like, do you know who that is, Tal?
Guest:No?
Guest:Mick Jagger, you know, like the singer for the Rolling Stones.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:I have so many of these stories.
Guest:Like, I just didn't know.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:I didn't grow up with that music.
Marc:No, I know, but you must be so focused.
Marc:I guess.
Marc:Did you ever play with Mick?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I played with him on SNL maybe a couple years later, and it was great.
Guest:And also, I did one of my favorite recording sessions ever with him, which was Ringo Starr on drums.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jim Keltner also on drums, Dr. John on piano, and Mick Jagger playing harmonica and singing.
Guest:And we all sat in a circle, and Bill Withers showed up, and we started writing a song together.
Guest:And then me and Mick wrote another song.
Guest:It was just really... What album is this stuff on?
Guest:I don't even think it's released.
Guest:It was for Joe Walsh.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:For Joe Walsh.
Guest:Yeah, it was for Joe Walsh.
Guest:And he didn't even put it out.
Guest:I wonder if he will.
Marc:Was he there?
Guest:Yeah, he was there.
Guest:Sorry.
Guest:I'm like, there was more people there too.
Guest:It was just so many.
Guest:But it was, I think it was maybe the first time Mick and Ringo had done, I think they were saying something about maybe it was the first time or whatever.
Guest:I was like, oh my God.
Marc:But you know that now, but then you were still just, it was just a bunch of dudes that were playing?
Marc:But you knew Mick at that point.
Guest:Yeah, I knew Mick at that point.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now, I guess a couple of questions about this, because you're playing with these guys.
Marc:When you play with somebody like, specifically,
Marc:Instead of asking you, you know, what's it like to play with them?
Guest:The most dreaded question.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But I mean, but when you talk in terms of like a musical conversation, so if we frame it differently as opposed to you, you know, telling me what these artists are like, you know, what was the experience for you and how was it different when you play with somebody like when you move from Jeff Beck to Herbie's band?
Marc:What, you know, what, how does the conversation change?
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:How does the conversation change?
Marc:Because if you're looking at it that way, and then when you like play with Bob Weir or you play with Dr. John, who like that crew of people, historically for somebody who's a freak for that kind of music would just like blow their mind.
Marc:But you have this purity due to your, I don't know, it's not really ignorance, but just sort of your myopia about your own work.
Marc:you know, that your single-mindedness and, you know, your kind of detachment from it, that you're coming to it with a sort of an open mind that other people wouldn't have, you know, going into knowing all of Dr. John's shit, right?
Marc:So, like, when you play with Herbie and you're having an experience, like you had, like, that moment where Beck says, you know, do the solo and you lay it out and he integrates it.
Marc:So he's got to be a different type of artist in terms of how he thinks and approaches music than someone like Herbie Hancock.
Marc:You know, what is the difference?
Marc:for you as a bass player.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know that aesthetically I could necessarily point out the differences.
Guest:I just know that when you have conversations with people with that much experience, you're bound to pick up and integrate some of those nuances into your own playing.
Guest:In terms of my role as a bass player with them,
Guest:that does vary according to what I think they want and what they're throwing at me.
Marc:So it's instinctual a lot of it.
Guest:Yeah, it is like a conversation.
Guest:You just gotta listen.
Marc:And then there's fits and starts.
Marc:There are times where, I wouldn't say that you're gonna be hitting bad notes, but where the conversation doesn't quite sync up until it does.
Guest:Or I guess as a bass player, you have a little more... I suppose if your role is to be a sideman, essentially, I'm there to hopefully make them sound good.
Guest:And so if anybody... If Jeff would make a mistake, for instance, Jeff is like the singer.
Guest:They always say, follow the singer.
Guest:So if Jeff goes somewhere else, we just have to go follow him and go... It's not like...
Guest:We're fighting for spotlight or anything like that.
Guest:We're all just sort of trying to lift him up.
Guest:And in times, then he'll also feature us.
Guest:And then he's doing that for us.
Guest:So I guess in a perfect world, that would happen in any band too.
Guest:But these particular ensembles that I've been a part of, there is a lot of improvisation.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you love that.
Guest:I love it, yeah.
Marc:And when you play with somebody like Bob Weir, the type of improvisation that you're gonna do with Beck as opposed to Herbie and then as opposed to sort of the country rock slash psychedelic noodling that Weir kind of invented, what's the vibe difference when you play with somebody like Bob?
Guest:I think that there is in each style of music a vocabulary that consists mainly of don'ts more than do's.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so you just adhere to that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So like when you're playing some sort of St.
Marc:Stephen or something or one of Bob's songs, whatever he's up to, you don't necessarily do a weather report style bass playing.
Yeah.
Marc:You kind of roll along.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Marc:Right?
Guest:I mean, he's also like a really open musician that loves hearing different approaches to his music.
Guest:And he's, I mean, the first time I played with him.
Guest:With Bob.
Guest:Yeah, with Bob.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just went to go and watch one of his shows.
Guest:I was just sitting in the audience.
Guest:And all of a sudden, the security guy points to me and says, excuse me, ma'am, get out of your seat.
Guest:And I'm like, wait, I didn't do any drugs.
Guest:I didn't take any photos.
Guest:What did I do?
Guest:He said, come with me.
Guest:And he makes me follow him all the way to the stage.
Guest:He's like, do you know all along the watchtower?
Guest:I'm like, yeah.
Guest:He's like, you're on in three minutes.
Guest:I'm like, OK.
Guest:And, like, you know, Bob's manager told me later, he's like, you know, I'm so glad you did that because some musicians, when Bob does that, they'll say no because they don't feel prepared because they're put on the spot.
Guest:And because you did that, he told me how much he just loves you, that you just went along.
Guest:And, like, and then he's asked me back since.
Guest:Like, he loves being off the cuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Marc:Keeps it live.
Marc:Keeps it fresh, you know?
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:Keeps you in the present.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I mean, I suppose the world of improvisation is very different to if I go and get called to do a session, like whether it was the sessions with Prince or it's like any other kind of project that, you know, sometimes you just had to play very simple and play for the song.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Right.
Guest:So in the studio, it's a whole other thing.
Marc:And what was that like with Prince?
Guest:amazing yeah that was actually my first time recording to tape uh-huh and i was surprised with how to tape or to you mean tape tape like analog yeah okay and i was surprised at how fast he works like he likes to just like okay lay it down like here we go take one that's it okay you you go to punch are you sure about that listen again are you sure you want to punch okay okay fine you get one chance one chance when you punch in yeah like if if there's if you want to overdub
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Replace, replace a segment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, and I remember him just like, okay, you ready?
Guest:I'm punching right now.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Can I have enough?
Guest:No.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Because it's on tape.
Guest:Yeah, because it's on tape.
Guest:But I mean, you can punch multiple times on tape.
Guest:I mean, it does wear it out every time.
Guest:But I think it was more about the mindset of like, let's do this and move forward.
Guest:And let's not just like micro focus like on all of these.
Marc:I would imagine doing it on tape.
Marc:you know, it does make it a little more precious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I mean, there's other musicians that do that and don't do that on tape.
Guest:It's just, I mean...
Guest:You really need to have a discipline to do that now because you can do anything now.
Guest:You can edit the shit out of anything.
Guest:So it's harder to make a real, authentic record that's played live.
Guest:That doesn't happen that much anymore.
Guest:A band goes into a studio and just cuts a record, which is actually how I did my record, this current record that's about to be released.
Marc:You played it live.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And how was this relationship?
Marc:Because I know you opened for The Who with some of this new material.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And that you never played with Pete on any of his stuff, but he likes you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I played on one show, which was a tribute to him.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And he saw me perform.
Guest:And after the show, he said a couple really nice things to me in passing.
Guest:That was my only experience meeting him.
Marc:But he gave you that gig.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I don't know how much was him or the management because it was a really interesting turn of events where a month before they went on the tour, I had finished my record and I wanted to send it to him to hear if he liked the music because it was a very different direction to what anybody had known me as.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:People identify me as a bass player.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's played with Jeff or whoever else, not as a singer songwriter.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so I wanted to send it to someone that I really respect.
Guest:And so I send it to P and I said, let me know what you think.
Guest:And, you know, kind of half joking, like, and if you ever need someone to open for you guys, like, I'd love to accept the challenge.
Guest:And he wrote back.
Guest:pretty quickly just saying like wow I love this music this is great and you know I'll send it on to the management and see what they think in terms of opening for for any of our shows and he and he wrote some really like detailed responses to my songs like he gave me real feedback uh-huh
Guest:which is really nice of him.
Guest:And then I got a phone call from his management saying, you know, it's your lucky day because the band that we were going to use for the first leg of the tour can't make it because of some immigration issues, so would you like to do the tour?
Marc:Yeah, and that was how that came.
Marc:And what's your relationship with Jackson Brown?
Guest:So I met Jackson that same night that I met Mick Jagger.
Marc:At the 25th anniversary thing?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So Jackson and Bonnie Raitt came up to me after the show.
Guest:And I'd actually heard of Jackson because my dad said he liked his music, but I hadn't heard his music yet.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they were both just really nice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, oh, my dad loves your music.
Guest:And by the way, I'm just starting to write songs with lyrics.
Yeah.
Guest:You know, we're like, where do you live?
Guest:We figured out we both live in LA.
Guest:And he said, well, I'd love to hear your music sometime.
Guest:And yeah, so like when I came back to LA, I took him up on his offer and I played him some music.
Guest:And after like some show that he was at, like just in my car, I played him some music.
Guest:And he gave me some advice.
Guest:And then I said, I'm going to go into the studio with these people.
Guest:And oh, well, let me know how that goes.
Guest:OK, cool.
Guest:And so I did that and play him the music.
Guest:And hey, what do you think of this song?
Guest:Oh, I really like that one.
Guest:Like, you know, the chorus to me says this.
Guest:Do you think that this lyric means this?
Guest:And we do that kind of same talk that I did with Anthony Jackson, but about songwriting.
Marc:And not in a car.
Guest:Sometimes in the car.
Guest:And so I think he also became sort of like a mentor.
Guest:He doesn't like me to use the term mentor because he's like, no, you're a peer.
Guest:You're a friend.
Guest:You help me too.
Guest:I ask you about things and it's fine.
Guest:Mentor, whatever.
Guest:It's just a term.
Guest:But he's really given me a lot of advice and support.
Guest:And he does that.
Guest:That's what's so amazing about him.
Guest:He did that with Blake Mills.
Guest:He did that with a band called Doors.
Guest:I don't know if you know them.
Guest:Quite a few musicians he'll give guitars to.
Guest:He's such a generous guy.
Marc:He's got that studio we played at.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's just showed support throughout the making of this whole album.
Marc:I just find it sort of impressive and amazing, at least by how you talk about these people, that it seems that most, if not all, of these men were appropriate with you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's a testament to your talent and to your person and to them.
Marc:Like, you know, it's not a story you hear usually.
Marc:You know, usually there's got to be a few stories where it's sort of like, oh, that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But not too many.
Guest:Maybe it's because I looked like I was 12, just a little bit too young.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's where you really find out who a man is, I think.
Marc:I guess they're all pretty good dudes.
Marc:So the new record is you stepping to the front in a real way.
Marc:Did you send me the whole record or did I just get part of it?
Guest:I sent you 10 songs.
Guest:10 songs, right.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:10 songs.
Marc:Reasonably length record.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You didn't do 19 songs.
Marc:No.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they're all, you know, they all sound like you, but a lot of them are different in tone.
Marc:Like there's some real fucking rockers.
Marc:Like the opening song is like, you know, it's big.
Marc:It's like rock music.
Marc:And then there's some jazzier ones and some nice vocal stuff and your voice is beautiful.
Marc:And, you know, some of it seems very personal to me and I hope you're okay.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:Well, no, just like relationship stuff.
Guest:Wouldn't that be funny if I put the record on and I just start getting all these phone calls like, Tal, are you okay?
Guest:Do you want me to bring you some chicken soup?
Guest:Do you want to take a walk on the beach?
Marc:It wasn't like that, but you're very sort of self-reflective and frustration in what seem like relationships and stuff is all in there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But how did you pick the band for this record?
Guest:I did go into the studio with several ensembles.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And one night I went to go have sushi with Benmont.
Marc:Tench.
Guest:Benmont Tench.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've talked to him.
Marc:He's a great guy.
Guest:And he invited Jeremy Stacey.
Uh-huh.
Guest:And then Jeremy invited his brother, Paul Stacy.
Guest:And I'd met Jeremy Stacy at the 2007 Crossroads Festival that I played with.
Guest:Who does he play with?
Guest:He plays with Sheryl Crow, Noel Gallagher.
Guest:I mean, he kind of plays with everyone.
Marc:Studio guy.
Guest:And live.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so we're having sushi.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And afterwards, I say, hey, do you guys, because Ben Mohn had already heard my music and he'd also been another person that was very supportive.
Guest:I said, do you guys want to go sit in my car and listen to some music?
Guest:I'm taking on the tradition of Anthony Jackson.
Guest:And so I played my music and they're like,
Guest:oh this is great you know like like well maybe we could go into the studio sometime it'd be really great i i just met this guy named blake mills who's a amazing guitarist and they hadn't heard of him yet and i said like just trust me he's he's really great yeah because blake had been coming over to my house like pretty regularly just like jamming you know with me
Guest:And we'd also be going to like Benmont's house almost weekly at one point.
Guest:Like me and Dawes and Blake and whoever else was in town.
Guest:And we'd just like Jackson and we'd all play each other like what we were working on.
Guest:Like, oh, what do you think of this song?
Guest:And then we'd jam on some like Dylan songs or whatever.
Guest:That was happening like weekly.
Guest:So anyway, so I said, let's go in the studio.
Guest:And so I just said, let's just do one day, two songs, try this out and Paul as a co-producer with me and Jeremy playing drums and Blake playing guitar.
Guest:And I figured like everything else can just like sort of be an overdub or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we went in and cut Corner Painter, which is the first song on the record, and another song, which did end up being on the record.
Guest:And I knew right then and there that that was the song that was going to be the linchpin for the rest of the record.
Guest:And I could now go home and write other songs with that sound in mind.
Guest:And so that's exactly what I did.
Guest:I wrote a bunch of songs, and then I called the same musicians back.
Guest:As well, I also called Zach Ray,
Guest:I coincidentally also met another time a few months later when I was at sushi again with Benmont and Zach Ray was at a table next to us.
Guest:And he's just he recognized Benmont and like, hello.
Guest:And I met him and I sort of thought, like, I bet you that guy's a good musician.
Guest:Same sushi place?
Guest:Same sushi place.
Guest:I called Zach up.
Guest:I said, can I come by and play some songs with you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I loved his playing.
Guest:So I brought him into the ensemble, too.
Guest:And that was the band, along with Ben Montt, for the whole record.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:That's a good bunch.
Guest:Amazing.
Guest:yeah i thought i thought the record was great oh thanks now you're like front and center and just like killing it thank you yeah i i actually when i picked up that guitar for the first time and cried and wrote a song and strummed every chord in history yeah yeah all in one all in one i i started writing songs like that's what i i actually began doing yeah and then when i moved to america
Marc:Yeah, you had to play with Jeff Beck and Herbie Hancock.
Guest:Well, no, it wasn't had to.
Guest:It was before those gigs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I started just focusing on being an instrumentalist.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So, in a sense, I was going back to my roots.
Marc:Yeah, to what you wanted to do to begin with.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But with all this experience under my belt.
Marc:And amazing support.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, congratulations.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:All right, you want to play something?
Guest:I think so.
Marc:If we can, if we can hook it up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We'll do it.
Marc:But that's the end of the conversation part.
Guest:Oh, I was just getting started.
Guest:Stop it.
Marc:There's a little buzz, but I'm sure with the beauty of the music, it will all go away.
Guest:Is it easy to tell with the bleed in the room?
Guest:What?
Marc:Like if the bass is too loud or too... You're talking to me like I'm an engineer and I'm just looking at a wavy thing.
Marc:The wavy thing looks good.
Marc:It's not peeking out.
Guest:All right.
Guest:This song's called Haunted Love.
Bye.
Guest:The queen of self-sufficiency Met an island of a man Keep away and run away now Hand in hand
Guest:This unexpected alchemy Waves upon a burning shore I rise and crash in front of you You burned some more But no, you didn't know
Guest:About the ghosts left inside of me Baby No, they didn't show Until your love began to lift me free And I feel guilty Cause when you lie your head upon my chest
Guest:The beating of my restless heart What used to be invisible Illuminated by a spark
Guest:You guard the flame and tenderly hold back the dark.
Guest:No, you didn't know about the ghosts left inside of me.
Guest:Did you, babe?
Guest:Feeling so alone In the midst of this uncertainty
Guest:I can't help but feel guilty when you lie your head upon my chest.
Guest:You feel the beating of my restless heart.
Guest:with memories that could or should have been all through the night guitar solo
Guest:Bye.
Guest:Love Help me sleep tonight Love Help me breathe tonight Love
Guest:Will you stay by my side In this love This haunted love
Guest:Cause in the middle of the night It'll take you by surprise So will you hold me, love In this haunted love
Guest:Cause in the middle of the night It'll take you by surprise So let me hold you, love In this haunted
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Double that buzz.
Marc:That's so great.
Marc:Only the buzz remains.
Guest:Love remains.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Love remains.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Thanks for doing it.
Marc:That was amazing, right?
Marc:The amazing Tal Wilkenfeld.
Marc:Her new album Love Remains is available now wherever you get your music.
Marc:And now, if you're still here, I want to premiere for you.
Marc:This is the first time it's being heard outside of anyone who saw the movie in South by Southwest.
Marc:This is the song from the Lynn Shelton film Sword of Trust.
Marc:It runs under the credits.
Marc:It's called New Boots.
Marc:It's written by me and Tal Wilkenfeld, and it's produced by Tal Wilkenfeld, and it features Tal, Zach Ray, Tamir Barzilay, and Jimmy Z Zavala, and Doyle Bramhall, also on guitar.
Marc:So here's New Boots.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Pretty good, right?
Marc:I'm back for a second just to say, Boomer lives!