Ep. 602: "Cinnamon Toast"

Episode 602 • Released November 17, 2025 • Speakers not detected

Episode 602 artwork
00:00:05Hello.
00:00:06Hi, John.
00:00:07Hi, Merlin.
00:00:09Good morning, Captain.
00:00:12Join in from the workplace, workplace app.
00:00:15Do you want an AI companion at work?
00:00:18Do you want an AI friend who will work with you at work in the workplace?
00:00:23Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:00:24Continue on your privacy rights.
00:00:27You're going to get assistance day and night.
00:00:30Can you imagine how much more dynamic this program would be if we unleashed the power of AI?
00:00:38whoo yeah i know what would the first thing that was different be oh geez it's early i'm trying to figure out how to make this either funny or serious or funny yeah i know serious or funny you know there'd be extra fingers that was serious and funny ai slob
00:01:04Slop's a word I learned.
00:01:05Well, it's everything now.
00:01:08Everything's slop.
00:01:10I suppose.
00:01:11I'm going to close this window.
00:01:12I don't know, man.
00:01:13You know, everybody wants you to do stuff.
00:01:16How you doing?
00:01:17You were out last week, and now you're here.
00:01:18Oh, yeah.
00:01:20I was sick.
00:01:21I was sick for two weeks.
00:01:23Like it used to be before the pandemic.
00:01:26Like in the regular days when you just get colds?
00:01:28Back in the old days when you get a cold and then, you know, like me, it's like you have a sniffle and you're like, okay, everybody else would be over this in two days, but I'm about to go on a Nantucket sleigh ride.
00:01:40Where I'm every kind of sick and then I feel better and I go out one night and then I get ten times more sick.
00:01:47That's how they get you.
00:01:48And then my ears are plugged up and then my eyebrows fall out.
00:01:51Oh, no, you know, just everything.
00:01:54Yeah, you can't go out like that.
00:01:56And so I've just and the thing is, no matter what I do, if I sleep for 18 hours a day and and say my prayers.
00:02:04it's basically i get just exactly as sick as if i just sat and ate donuts you know with my bare ass in the snow so donuts come up a lot yeah they're one of the great things i was going to ask you if they're if donuts represent an intrusive thought but i guess the better question is are they an intrusive food
00:02:28Yeah, donuts are one of those things where... I'm like that.
00:02:32I have foods that are just on my mind.
00:02:34Yeah, if there's a donut, I'll eat it.
00:02:36And I'll eat a second donut.
00:02:39But I've never felt better after eating a second donut.
00:02:43Well, because then you also have the opportunity to be a gentleman and stop.
00:02:47Two is a good amount of donuts to eat.
00:02:50Now, here's the thing, and this reminds me a little bit of the 1980s when everybody would talk about how much they hated homosexuals, when obviously a lot of those people were, in fact, well, if they weren't homosexuals, they were, to quote my friend Sam's dad, missing their best bet.
00:03:04Yeah, they were friends of Dorothy.
00:03:05They were fellow travelers, and I, so sometimes this lady doth protest too much.
00:03:12And they'll say, hey, donuts.
00:03:14And I'll go like, no, I'm good.
00:03:16Because the problem is...
00:03:19If I have one donut, I will eat all the donuts.
00:03:22I'll eat the donuts until there's no more donuts.
00:03:24Now, some people say this, they make jokes and they crack, and I know GLP-1s are changing everything.
00:03:28But, like, you know, there are people who say you can't open that bag of chips, you're going to eat all the chips, or, you know, that sleeve of cookies or whatever.
00:03:35Now, personally, I'm the kind of guy, I open me up a quart of Haagen-Dazs, quart, pint, pint, pint.
00:03:41I open up a Haagen-Dazs, a standard Haagen-Dazs, and I throw the lid away.
00:03:46Because you know what?
00:03:47I got self-knowledge, and to me, that's more valuable than self-esteem.
00:03:52We got fancy donuts here, like you guys do.
00:03:55Voodoo.
00:03:56Everybody lines up for them, all the way from Seattle to Portland.
00:03:59No, thanks.
00:04:00But we have ones that are called Top Pot Donuts, and they're a couple... Top Pot?
00:04:05Top Pot?
00:04:06Top Pot.
00:04:07T-O-P space P-O-T?
00:04:09Mm-hmm.
00:04:10I don't care for that at all.
00:04:11Well, but the pot in this pot is a pot of coffee.
00:04:15It's the top pot.
00:04:17We have an ice cream sandwich here called It's It, and I've never cared for that name either.
00:04:19Oh, I love an It's It.
00:04:20Yeah, but I don't care for that name at all.
00:04:22Anytime I'm driving in the South Bay and I drive past the old It's It factory, I give them a hearty salute.
00:04:28Well, you know what I like?
00:04:29I don't know if they even still have it anymore because I don't go places, but on 101, there used to be a really good sign of a cartoon-looking guy smashing a mouse with a mallet.
00:04:39You ever seen that?
00:04:39Mm-hmm.
00:04:40No, but it was like a 3D sculpture thing.
00:04:43It wasn't just now.
00:04:44A two-dimensional image of a man hitting a mouse with a mallet is pretty funny because I think he's wearing a top hat.
00:04:50I'll find it.
00:04:51The great innovation in Itzit technology lately, I don't know if you know this, is that they now have mini Itzits.
00:04:58Quit lying to yourself.
00:05:00You're fucking lying to yourself.
00:05:01No, it was a real commitment to dig into it.
00:05:04How big is an Itzit?
00:05:04Is it the size of a typical ice cream sandwich?
00:05:07An Itzit is the size of two large chocolate chip cookies with what is probably two huge scoops of ice cream compressed in the middle.
00:05:15Oh, and is it round like a moon pie?
00:05:16It's round, yeah.
00:05:17See, I thought it was rectangular like a blackboard eraser, an African-American board eraser.
00:05:23No, it's much larger than a hockey puck.
00:05:25It's like as big as an In-N-Out burger, except it's made of ice cream and cookies.
00:05:32I'm not slagging it off.
00:05:33It's a meal.
00:05:34No, no, no, no, no.
00:05:35I've never had one.
00:05:35I've only ever seen the science.
00:05:37The mini-itsits are little.
00:05:39It's still five bites.
00:05:42Now, sometimes I like a smaller version of the big thing, and other times I think it's troubling.
00:05:46I don't like the tiny M&Ms.
00:05:47I think the form factor of an M&M is fine the way it is.
00:05:51I know the funny thing about those I do I do you could sprinkle them on ice cream like a Haagen-Dazs after you throw Yeah, but then they get too hard and then you're just crying and then you just got it.
00:06:00You gave yourself a problem Well, yeah, I like to mix it You got to mix it up because you freeze an M&M and it does become a little bit hard especially with teeth like yours in this economy Here's what you here's the thing about those mini M&Ms.
00:06:14M&M, the M&M Mars Company.
00:06:18Big candy, they call it.
00:06:20Made slash makes.
00:06:23A full-sized, I'm talking about like a size of a Cadbury bar, a full-sized candy bar.
00:06:31That is a candy bar of chocolate full of mini peanut M&Ms.
00:06:38Mini peanut M&Ms.
00:06:40Now, does a mini peanut M&M only constitute half a nut?
00:06:43Half a legume?
00:06:44Legume.
00:06:45Oh, that's clever.
00:06:47Wow, talk about technology, John.
00:06:48I bet they couldn't have done that in the 40s.
00:06:50Well, they apparently can't do it now because they made this bar.
00:06:55I discovered the bar.
00:06:57Nature sowed the seed.
00:07:00I ate the seed.
00:07:00You didn't make the rat.
00:07:02I didn't make the rat.
00:07:03I discovered this bar, and it is, I'm sorry to say, the greatest candy bar that America has ever produced.
00:07:11So you get a Cadbury-style bar...
00:07:14Or, you know, Nestle's Hershey style form factor, but good chocolate.
00:07:18And inside is mini peanut M&Ms.
00:07:21That's right.
00:07:22That could be pretty good.
00:07:23That's a grown-up taste, but I could love that.
00:07:24Milk chocolate, yeah.
00:07:26Milk chocolate.
00:07:27That's pretty good.
00:07:29So, so good.
00:07:29And then the Mars M&M Big Candy, their decision was, let's make this candy bar the hardest thing to find in the world.
00:07:39Harder than any mystery flavor of Doritos.
00:07:42Can I beg you not to get me started on this?
00:07:44Why do people bring good into the world and then make it difficult to find?
00:07:48And I spend the amount of time I have spent scouring the earth.
00:07:53I walk at night with a lantern held high.
00:07:56Looking for either an honest man or a candy bar.
00:07:59Or this particular candy bar.
00:08:01And you can find, they make the one with the M&Ms that aren't peanut.
00:08:05You can find it, although still very hard to find.
00:08:08Interesting.
00:08:09But you can find it, and it is amazing.
00:08:12It's an M&M inside of a chocolate bar.
00:08:14It's amazing.
00:08:16But the unobtainium, and if you go in, if you go in right now and you say M&M, mini M&M peanut chocolate bar, it will throw up a hundred sites that say we have it, but we're currently out of stock.
00:08:31You know, I don't like to use this show for my own personal reasons.
00:08:36This is a public resource, John.
00:08:38Do we agree?
00:08:39You're doing it on behalf of humankind.
00:08:40Well, I've realized that sometimes my concerns rise to the level of being other people's concerns.
00:08:47And I still find it in this economy, in this post-COVID world, I still find it so strange that sometimes you just can't get something for a while.
00:08:55It's weird.
00:08:56Like we have a certain kind of dish washing liquid that we like that is sent free and it's not weird and it's very easy to deal with and you barely notice it exists.
00:09:04And sometimes you just can't get it for three weeks.
00:09:07But when it comes to something like, uh, like, uh, so my question about the big candy is, you know, the story of chicken McNuggets and how the person who invented chicken McNuggets was like, okay, we've got all these chicken parts that we can't use.
00:09:20Like after we get the good part of the chicken out.
00:09:23Pink slime.
00:09:24Could be.
00:09:26Could be.
00:09:26Except chicken.
00:09:28Chicken slack.
00:09:29Chicken slack.
00:09:30Chicken slack, we used to call it.
00:09:32Chicken slack.
00:09:33Awful bird.
00:09:34It's the slack off of a chicken.
00:09:37And I mean slack in the Bob Dobbs kind of way.
00:09:39Yeah, J.R.
00:09:40Bob Dobbs style slack.
00:09:42You know, I get that.
00:09:42I get that.
00:09:45You know, it's a shame we can't bring that word back.
00:09:47It's been stolen by that application.
00:09:49Oh, there's something called slack.
00:09:52What does it do?
00:09:52Is it like a messaging platform?
00:09:54Mm-hmm Yeah, it's for people inside of a company to waste time communicating with each other.
00:09:59Oh, right It's one of those it's one of those technologies where people never aren't at work anymore.
00:10:04Is that yeah But the more you're on slack the less work you're actually doing you've convinced yourself to talking to other people is your job But that's really just a part of your job.
00:10:12There's also the part of your job where you do your job
00:10:14My phone threw up a message yesterday and it said, if you don't use the WhatsApp app, it's going to delete.
00:10:23So it's a use it or lose it type situation.
00:10:25But I thought it was maybe spam because what app ever self deleted?
00:10:34Well, I mean, on the face of it, it kind of sounds like one of those pay your toll texts.
00:10:41It sounds like one of those, because here's the thing.
00:10:42I'm going to tell you something.
00:10:43This is what they call it.
00:10:44It's called social engineering.
00:10:46There's ways you can get at people technically, but you can also get at people socially.
00:10:50And what I've learned based on information is you get people to do crazy shit by making them emotional and making them scared.
00:10:58Which is, I guess, a kind of emotion.
00:11:00So that says to you, hey, John Roderick, because now you're looking at privation, not abundance.
00:11:05You're looking at privation, privation of WhatsApp.
00:11:07And whether or not it's something you use, you noticed it.
00:11:12You know what I'm saying?
00:11:13I think they're trying to make you emotional.
00:11:15And they might be trying to wheeze your juice from a hacking-type standpoint.
00:11:19I don't know.
00:11:20So they probably want you to use the app more.
00:11:21Is that the idea?
00:11:22They want more MAUs?
00:11:24Well, I was overseas, and somebody over there, across the seas...
00:11:30Said oh, well if you know Yeah, it's give me your whatsapp and I'll let you know when blah blah blah And I was like I don't have whatsapp and they acted like I didn't I know I know it's like me when I used to say I don't have Facebook I sound like one of the hill people Yeah, and so I downloaded whatsapp because apparently over in the other seas across them
00:11:49There are seven of them, you know, and I was across two of them Sargasso and it's the Sargasso Sea was one of the ones I was across and and the you know the Great Barrier Sea or whatever and I used WhatsApp all the time because everybody was on it all the time and I was like this is just texting you guys
00:12:09And they were like, no, no, it's not just texting.
00:12:12It's this amazing.
00:12:13It's because of the privacy component.
00:12:15It's me.
00:12:16Don't know.
00:12:17But the day I stopped being over those seas, like what came back across the seas, I never opened it again because nobody here in the United States of America that I know has never suggested it.
00:12:32Don't children use it?
00:12:33Don't know.
00:12:34I don't know any children that have phones.
00:12:36Ha, ha, ha.
00:12:36So you say, oh, I see.
00:12:39Well, look at me.
00:12:41I'm Waldorf.
00:12:42I know.
00:12:43You can make a phone out of blocks.
00:12:47They wear glasses.
00:12:47This Montessori.
00:12:49I'm sending you a photo of this.
00:12:51It's called Western Exterminator Company.
00:12:56And there's a man dressing.
00:12:59It looks like he's kind of dressed.
00:13:00It's a fancy dress man from what looks like probably the Gilded Age.
00:13:04He's got spats.
00:13:05He's got a top hat.
00:13:06He's wearing gloves.
00:13:07And he seems to be abrading a mouse.
00:13:10And he's got a hammer or a mallet behind his back.
00:13:13Yeah, I've seen this for sure.
00:13:14I thought this was some sort of old...
00:13:17Like a Victorian-era cartoon.
00:13:20Well, I'm going to speculate that maybe it wasn't always mice, and that's all I'm going to say about that.
00:13:27Oh, look, of course, it was a rat.
00:13:28It could have been a guy in a sombrero who liked to sleep.
00:13:31Like, you know, I don't know.
00:13:32They might have changed it up.
00:13:33I mean, like, history's had a lot of different mice, John.
00:13:36It's true.
00:13:38It's true.
00:13:39So a lot of the time they're the heroes.
00:13:41America was the mice in the American Revolution.
00:13:44I'm watching the Ken Burns series on PBS and it's very, very good.
00:13:47Oh, you are.
00:13:48I tuned into, I opened threads yesterday.
00:13:52John, you got to get off the internet, man.
00:13:54And I saw like four really terrible movies.
00:14:00takes on Ken Burns' American Revolution.
00:14:04He can knock me over with a feather.
00:14:06And I get, this is one of those, like, leave it, leave it, leave it.
00:14:10I have a whole staff of people whose only job is to tell me, leave it now.
00:14:14Remind you to leave it, and then when you don't leave it, to find somebody to distract you, perhaps, with more than two donuts.
00:14:20Yeah, just like over here over here and I but I was like wrote this long threads where I was like, you know the thing about all of you fucking and then I got to the end of it and I went through a whole of the whole time I went through and corrected all the grammar and made sure that all the periods and the ellipses were in the right places and then I heard in the very middle distance And I was like, what was that?
00:14:45What was that sound?
00:14:48Way off in the distance.
00:14:51Did you think you might want to honor that voice?
00:14:55I know it's very difficult to hear.
00:14:56It's very little.
00:14:57It's like the mouse.
00:14:58By the way, I just sent you a link.
00:15:00The man is named Mr. Little, and the mouse is named Menace Mouse.
00:15:05Is it something where there's like a little mouse voice?
00:15:10It would be so easy to miss that.
00:15:12Well, it was, but I stood up and I looked around.
00:15:15I was like, is that coming from inside?
00:15:16It might help if you said leave it to yourself when you stood up aloud.
00:15:20Eventually, I heard through the dream state I was in, leave it.
00:15:30And I was like, leave it?
00:15:31Leave it?
00:15:32Who do you think you're talking to?
00:15:34And then eventually I sat down and I...
00:15:37took i took the time to manually delete every single letter that i had typed into no program delete delete delete just each one of them i was just i was taking it out on the letter as i sent it to letter hell like okay leave it i will leave it how do you like that apples
00:15:58And then I left it.
00:16:00And I closed my phone and I went into a different place.
00:16:04Another room.
00:16:05I'm so proud of you.
00:16:06I mean, obviously, as your friend, I like to think I'm your friend.
00:16:10I'm proud of you for your action.
00:16:13But honestly, I'm way more proud of you for your self-awareness, for your self-knowledge, for your self-listening.
00:16:20You listen to Menace Mouse.
00:16:22I listen to Menace Mouse.
00:16:25Mr. Little took a knee.
00:16:28I haven't read this whole article yet, but I'd like to learn more about what Mr. Little does when he's not on intimidating mice, because I think he might be a bad actor.
00:16:41He's got kind of a look.
00:16:43He does, especially when you look at the picture that's looking at Mr. Little from the perspective of Menace Mouse.
00:16:51You realize there's a huge power imbalance.
00:16:53Something in my writing project I work on that I was saying one time, before you, I'm paraphrasing here, but before you make a decision to do something, ask yourself, what is the best possible outcome of this?
00:17:09So sometimes I'll start with an anodyne statement, and then you can realize what my point is in a second.
00:17:14And so I'll say, before you decide to do something, ask yourself, what is the best possible outcome of this?
00:17:21This is especially useful before things like, say, jumping onto a moving car or yelling at a baby.
00:17:26now why do i say that because we've all yelled at babies sure and many of us and many of us have jumped onto a moving car and i would say that in most of those situations you know we never really asked ourselves what is the what's the best like if like if everything went the way i hope it goes well this real answer is i'll feel like i took an emotional shit
00:17:50And got something out of my system.
00:17:51That's the real answer for most of us.
00:17:53Maybe not for you, but for most of us, that's the real answer.
00:17:56But do you wonder, like, what would the best possible outcome have been if you had posted your very good proofread writing?
00:18:05Would be in multiple arguments about the That's the best that's the best.
00:18:10Yeah, okay with a bunch of total total know-nothing dealings who yeah I mean, this is the thing about the doughnuts.
00:18:18Well This top doughnuts.
00:18:22I'm priced out of getting five donuts because it's a real investment of time and money.
00:18:29Is that right?
00:18:30But at 11 o'clock at night, sometimes at my local grocery store, there will be a dozen top pot donuts for $5.
00:18:44yeah now that's an enormous savings over the normal cost of two dollars and fifty cents for one of these donuts we're talking about less than these are not these are not fresh from the place but but something that's available at the store and they're giving you their their this is basement bargain basement prices on something that's otherwise kind of a luxury item
00:19:05Well, the thing is, this grocery store has a Top Pot donut display.
00:19:09The donut company comes in the morning, hot and fresh piping donuts that you're meant to take one of with a special little wrap.
00:19:17You know, you have your tongs.
00:19:19You put it in a little bag.
00:19:20These are the donuts that didn't sell during the day.
00:19:24Oh, these are the night donuts.
00:19:26Night donuts.
00:19:27For a while, they were getting the mix wrong or whatever, and there were...
00:19:32there were 12 of the donuts that i like the best in a box for five dollars and i that seems like a pretty good deal i was like i can't afford not to buy these no and then i would come home and i would put each donut individually in a sandwich bag and i would put them in the freezer okay and then i would have 12 donuts you heat them up later well a little but you know they melt to you know you only give them 15 seconds
00:20:01Oh, hell yeah.
00:20:02But, you know, the way my freezer is packed full of things already, the donuts, like, I had to put one over here and one on top of this little container of last year's gravy.
00:20:14That's a good way for a donut to hide, if you ask me.
00:20:16That's right.
00:20:17But then that gamifies it because now the refrigerator, it's like, are there donuts in there?
00:20:22I don't know.
00:20:22Min-maxing, they call it.
00:20:24Min-maxing?
00:20:25I think that's what it's called.
00:20:27Do you sometimes find a special donut, though, hidden away?
00:20:29You've mislaid, not mislaid, but you know.
00:20:33Every once in a while, I'm back in there, I'm looking for something.
00:20:36How do you feel about that?
00:20:37You feel good when you find a hidden donut?
00:20:39I love that.
00:20:40Sometimes that'll happen to me with a Haagen-Dazs bar.
00:20:42It feels amazing, except for now I have diabetes.
00:20:48It's not even pre-diabetes anymore.
00:20:50No, it's full just... You got full-blown diabetes.
00:20:55Full-blown diabetes.
00:20:56I didn't know that.
00:20:57That's a shame.
00:20:58I got donuts rolling in, you know, and it's like, I can't afford to get them now.
00:21:04Even if there was a Girl Scout
00:21:08with a with the overturned milk crate out front who was like want 12 free donuts i don't know why she'd be doing it but i'd have to say young miss i have diabetes oh man you think it would make her feel bad
00:21:23I don't think young people know what it is.
00:21:25Because at that point, she becomes sort of a pusher in a lot of ways.
00:21:29You know, I can't tell whether young people... It's like sex trafficking, but for pastry.
00:21:32Young people either don't know how to feel bad anymore, or they feel so bad about themselves all the time that they don't know how to feel bad about me.
00:21:39They feel bad about the wrong things in the wrong way.
00:21:41It's so weird.
00:21:42I would say, young lady, I have diabetes.
00:21:45And she would say, do you know the 25 things that I have?
00:21:48And then I would just mope off.
00:21:52I would slump even further.
00:21:54Now you're trying to meddle in the Grievance Olympics.
00:21:58And I'd hear, leave it.
00:22:01Just leave it.
00:22:04I wasn't made to leave it is the problem.
00:22:06I wasn't built to leave it.
00:22:07It doesn't seem... Well...
00:22:10I, it, it, it may partly be the time that we're from and the places that we're from and our different upbringings and so forth.
00:22:16But like, I don't, I don't, I don't feel like I was particularly raised to leave it.
00:22:22You know what I mean?
00:22:23You were raised to go after it.
00:22:26Like, yeah.
00:22:26Like, like a goddamn, like my beagle used to kill bunnies in our yard and it made me very unhappy because the bunnies were so cute to kill the baby bunnies in our yard.
00:22:33But you know what he's, he's just beagles.
00:22:35Beagles gonna beagle.
00:22:37Beagles gonna beagle.
00:22:40There was that guy, you've seen that guy with the pink guitar that goes and plays for rhinoceroses and stuff?
00:22:45I don't think I have, John.
00:22:47It's one of the internet content.
00:22:48Is that something you saw on threads?
00:22:50It's an internet content.
00:22:53And he's a guy who goes, he's got a pink guitar and he sits in a chair and he plays for wild animals on the other side of a fence.
00:23:02Is it plugged in?
00:23:03Nope, just an acoustic guitar acoustic guitar.
00:23:06That's different.
00:23:06Okay, and he's got a nice voice He's got a sweet voice and he plays cover songs of of sweet songs and that what makes this compelling content is that apparently a lion a full ass lion a whole pride of lions who were just sitting there minding their business thinking about human babies to eat and
00:23:28If this guy in like a flat cap with a pink guitar sits in a folding chair and starts playing clocks by Coldplay or whatever, they will not only get up and come over, but they will sit down, luxuriate in the music.
00:23:44And like start...
00:23:47grooming each other and it relaxes them it seems it does rhinoceri no kidding every kind of creature octopus raptors is it only cold play no he plays the whole selection of kind of i've seen the famous one of the guy who plays uh i forget what the horn is i want to see a trombone i've seen the one of the guy who plays a horn for cows
00:24:10That's an old one, but I've seen that one.
00:24:13I think the guy that plays the horn for cows was the inspiration for the guy with the pink guitar.
00:24:19My dog didn't like it when I played harmonica, and I thought that was funny.
00:24:25Take that.
00:24:25He really... I speak for the baby rabbits.
00:24:30You know, a couple of years ago, I put wind chimes up all around my house, and I really think... Wind chimes are like farts.
00:24:37People like their own.
00:24:39They hate everybody else's.
00:24:41They are something.
00:24:42It's a cacophony.
00:24:43And I think the owls are like, you know what, buddy?
00:24:47like go fuck yourself because we're out here well because they're out in the forest in the middle of the night trying to hear the rustling and you're saying me me well they're they're like you know we do we look real carefully and listen for little critters echolocation and you're over here like bing bong bing bong bing
00:25:07You're hurting their signal-to-noise ratio, Al, from an Al standpoint.
00:25:12I feel like my house, although I got the wind chimes just to make all of my neighbors feel unsettled, because it's a little serial killer-y.
00:25:22But I'm afraid that maybe I am disrupting the ecosystem, that I've worked so hard to build and maintain.
00:25:30This is the kind of thing we heard about in the 80s, John.
00:25:32Do you remember this?
00:25:33At the time, it made people so upset.
00:25:35Of course, you've got the snail darter.
00:25:36We won't get started in that.
00:25:37Or, for example, the baby turtles that needed to cross to do their breeding, and then they finally made them little tunnels and stuff like that.
00:25:45When you first hear these kinds of things, you think, you've got to be kidding me.
00:25:48This is post-industrial America.
00:25:50No way am I going to worry about whether my metal yard device upsets an owl.
00:25:55Right.
00:25:56But now we think about that, don't we?
00:25:57Because you could be throwing off their breeding.
00:26:00Maybe it's like one of those ladies who can't come when there's sirens, you know, like in movies.
00:26:06I heard just yesterday that apparently hormone replacement therapy, which was supposedly supposed to be giving women with perimenopause cancer if they did it, even though it helped a lot.
00:26:19Turns out.
00:26:19And so for years, nobody could do it because it was killing them all.
00:26:23And it turns out, no, that's not true.
00:26:25It's actually fine.
00:26:25I heard that.
00:26:27I also heard they're taking testosterone for their sex.
00:26:31Really?
00:26:31Yeah, that's what I heard.
00:26:32Perimenopause.
00:26:35And that's different from periodontists.
00:26:37Periodontists can get perimenopause, but it is different.
00:26:43Right, and the blue skies you've ever seen are in Seattle.
00:26:45That's Perry Como itis.
00:26:47That's right.
00:26:48And the that was kind of funny John Don't you think there's a pretty good pull really?
00:26:52It was a bit more Perry Como from when we were kids.
00:26:54It's pretty blue SCTV had funny jokes about how he would be like falling asleep while he was singing on TV I always thought that was funny.
00:27:00You know Another kind of content that I was consuming yesterday was Carol Burnett show.
00:27:06Oh man outtakes Man pretty fun stuff
00:27:09Yeah, I mean, it's silly, but boy, did that ever have an impact on me.
00:27:14Every time Tim Conway, because Tim Conway didn't used to be a regular when I was a kid, and then he became a regular.
00:27:18It was Lau Wagner, Harvey Korman, Vicki Lawrence, and Carl Burnett.
00:27:23And then sometimes Tim Conway would be on, and it was always like the highlight of my week.
00:27:27I know.
00:27:28Tim Conway, you know.
00:27:29Mississa Wiegand.
00:27:30I mean, Dorb, right?
00:27:32He thought he was so... And then they crack up.
00:27:34Harvey Korman cracks up.
00:27:36You sure that little asshole's finished?
00:27:38I know that you are on YouTube.
00:27:44You're the you in YouTube.
00:27:46Oh my God, thank you.
00:27:47There's no I in YouTube.
00:27:49There's no I in YouTube.
00:27:51I am only on YouTube when I'm trying to listen to music.
00:27:55Or watch the videos that I continue to add to your list.
00:27:59Or watch your amazing videos.
00:28:01Do you check in?
00:28:01Because I added another one last week.
00:28:04I have not seen it, but thank you.
00:28:06No, but you go for music.
00:28:08It's an easy way to listen to music.
00:28:09Easy way to listen to music, although it frustrates my child a lot that I go there to listen to music.
00:28:15Especially if you're getting ads.
00:28:17But I am getting ads.
00:28:19I'm ad-free.
00:28:20I'm ad-free.
00:28:20That's the only way to fly.
00:28:21I know, you know, and I should.
00:28:23It's the best 20 bucks I spend every month.
00:28:25I wouldn't even know where to start.
00:28:27I wouldn't even know where to begin to attach that eel to my... Oh, my goodness.
00:28:32Well, it enables me to watch some rather extraordinary, very long videos without somebody trying to tell me about Factor or whatever.
00:28:40Factor.
00:28:41I don't know.
00:28:41See, I don't even know what ads people get anymore.
00:28:43I'm guessing it's the kind of shit my wife buys on Instagram.
00:28:46It's something like a hairbrush that's also, I don't know, a battery starter or something.
00:28:52Something just happened to me in the last week or two.
00:28:56Sorry, I didn't mean to take you off YouTube because I'm very interested.
00:28:58Well, no, because this is what we talk about.
00:29:00It is.
00:29:00It's the same.
00:29:01It's the same where it just feels like everything's a vine now.
00:29:05But now all of the ads are the same, which is they're indistinguishable from the content creators.
00:29:12It's always somebody that's like, oh, my God, I...
00:29:15I was having so much trouble flipping pancakes in my pancake flipping like extreme sports.
00:29:22At that point, we're looking at the black and white video of the person who has pancakes all over their floor because they're having so many problems.
00:29:28Oh, these pancakes.
00:29:29Has this ever happened to me?
00:29:31It happens to me all the time.
00:29:33And then my friends and I home built this artist anal pancake flipping business.
00:29:41With real leather.
00:29:42Hammered copper.
00:29:43Hammered copper.
00:29:45And now when we jump out of airplanes in the Alps wearing a suit that's made out of birds, we can flip pancakes in midair.
00:29:56And we're not even asking you to buy it.
00:29:58We're just telling you it's here.
00:29:59I don't get UTIs anymore.
00:30:01don't get you ever since i got that hammered copper my husband and i came up with this apparently you can take hormone replacement therapy again and not get cervical cancer no and it's only 79 if you act now and i just i don't know i i really because when i look at myself in the mirror i go are you a content creator
00:30:25You're not.
00:30:26No, you're not.
00:30:28You're not.
00:30:29Not in the increasingly conventional sense.
00:30:34I do think there's a difference.
00:30:37I mean, like, I remember when I very first learned, and it's going to be difficult for me to talk about this without sounding like I'm talking down to people.
00:30:45And the reason for that is that I am talking down to people.
00:30:48I remember this one thing that you go out there and you love your South Korean makeup tutorials.
00:30:52I understand that's a thing, right?
00:30:54You go to, you get your, you get your makeup tutorials and that's the whole thing.
00:30:56I remember listening to a podcast one time and the entire podcast, it was a podcast I enjoyed, but the entire podcast was, uh, about, it was an, as, as the Vox would call it, an explainer.
00:31:07And they'd done an explainer on the drama that was happening inside of makeup.
00:31:12YouTube.
00:31:13Makeup YouTube drama.
00:31:15Now here's, I just want to like, I'm going to stop for a minute here because I know a lot of you fucking live in this trash every day.
00:31:21For those of you who don't know what this, I just want to clarify what that means.
00:31:24There's people who make YouTube videos about makeup.
00:31:27It's a popular, popular thing.
00:31:28And this is back in the day.
00:31:29I'm sure now people do it on their TikTok or whatever, whatever.
00:31:31But it was a whole genre and there's different people doing it and it's competitive.
00:31:36And then you get into things like you have collaborations with other creators.
00:31:40But then, of course, because it's YouTube, you have beef with other people.
00:31:44Oh, you beef.
00:31:44You get makeup beef with other people.
00:31:47And so I just want to be very clear that like I turned off the podcast because at that point I did go to college.
00:31:53It was only in the 80s and it was in Florida.
00:31:55But it did occur to me that I'm sitting here feeling very unhappy listening to somebody explain to me
00:32:01in like a ha-ha, can you believe this way, about YouTube drama between makeup people, that's in addition to the fact that makeup YouTube drama exists.
00:32:13And then people will make a video about, a meta video about that drama.
00:32:19That's honestly what I think.
00:32:21When I hear people talk about content creators, that's kind of what I tend to think about.
00:32:26When I hear content creator, I think shovels of whatever.
00:32:31Shovels.
00:32:33Of whatever.
00:32:34Of whatever.
00:32:36Shovels of whatever.
00:32:37And this show, say what you will, this is not shovels of whatever.
00:32:42This is a bespoke product in the minds of two people you theoretically like.
00:32:48It is.
00:32:48It's bespoked.
00:32:50my daughter got into uh this musical called epic the musical okay and epic the musical is a musical in the style i'm gonna just go out and say she would argue with me but i'm gonna say in the style of hamilton
00:33:08but using the source material of the ancient Greek myths.
00:33:12Oh, neato.
00:33:14And it is a fully... I'm sorry, I just went off the down.
00:33:18Promethiai, Promethewi, Prometheus.
00:33:24You were made for this life.
00:33:30And when I say I'm the style of Hamilton, it's not all rap.
00:33:34It's classic musical.
00:33:36It's a musical.
00:33:37It's got lots of songs.
00:33:39but it's you know yeah but it's my name is let's just call it urban let's just say it's an urban musical about about you can't get a mortgage yeah i get it yeah that's right uh about uh the ancient greeks and it's very popular with her cadre
00:33:57yeah my kid has those my kid has musicals like that that i am utterly unaware of that he and his friends are all just like super into that then i find out it's like a huge thing i'd never heard of epic well so epic is it's fully fledged um but for some is it on broadway well this is the thing for some reason it it is not as far as i know um staged
00:34:26it is 100 just like a recording like jesus christ superstar like jesus christ you know that not a lot of people may so maybe people who don't know that the jesus christ superstar which many of us know from the ted neely um with the one that has a really good judas you know my mind is clearer now um that movie was based on a musical but that musical is based on an album that's
00:34:53album right so tim tim and uh what's his name sirian sirian sirian was named sir uh you know what's that guy's name who's the guy who's that guy who's that guy the guy who does yeah in mcclellan in in sterling he but that you know the guy who writes the musicals um they did that in the 60s and they recorded it and by the way that version of heaven on their minds has one of the greatest piano clams
00:35:18of all time in it and it's in every single version they kept his andrew lloyd weber's tremendous piano clam they were like this clam is just it it's one of the parts that goes you know how it goes nazar with your famous son should have been a great unknown but i'll find the clip for you he has a tremendous clam
00:35:38You do it three times and it's jazz.
00:35:41But that's unusual, because the thing was that you couldn't get the money to go stage a musical, so instead they recorded an album.
00:35:47And they brought in the singer from Deep Purple, which I think is kind of cool.
00:35:50Which is, I think, what's happening with Epic, although it astonishes me.
00:35:54They're doing it on the, oh, this is like a millennial musical, you do it for no money.
00:35:58Well, I think it's now a massive, massive, massive media property.
00:36:05But I don't understand why all of the huge companies that are out there like, who's got the next Hamilton hasn't turned the epic of the musical into either a musical or more likely a film.
00:36:16Why haven't they gobbled that up?
00:36:19But all of these kids, they all know every note of it.
00:36:23And I was asking her the other day, my little person, what's your current YouTube consumption other than the videos that Merlin sends us?
00:36:37And she said, well, there's a lot of beef right now.
00:36:42Between epic the musical commenters Okay, and I said go on and she said well the number one epic the music commenter has like four million followers and the next Largest epic the music commenter only has two million followers and and the the composer
00:37:11of the epic, the musical said in one of his YouTube posts, because he has 460 billion YouTube followers.
00:37:24He said, I want to give a shout out to my man, Josh.
00:37:28But both the number one epic music commenter and the number two epic music commenter are both named Josh.
00:37:37And so it wasn't clear which Josh he meant.
00:37:43Now everybody in the epic the music YouTube commenter sphere is Just going nuts over which Josh and both Josh's are claiming To be the one that I see getting the shout outs
00:37:59And so she pulled up.
00:38:01But that opens a new front inside of this unnecessary popularity war.
00:38:07Because now you end up, just to state the obvious, if you like one Josh more than the other, or as is often the case, you particularly dislike one Josh over the other, you're going to pop up and say, no way.
00:38:19Robert Epic was obviously talking about my Josh.
00:38:22That's right.
00:38:23And the guy that wrote Epic might also be Josh.
00:38:26I don't know.
00:38:26I think there's a lot of namespace pollution among young people
00:38:31Well, yeah, yeah, I think I think more more than anything I was just struck by the fact that yeah every one of these people is Making what I can only imagine is 1 million dollars a month from factor at auto playing factor ads on YouTube.
00:38:48Please remember to like and subscribe Um really helps you discover the show all of their content is them talking about this unproduced musical
00:39:01And so when I'm sitting on anything and these people are just going by like, we handcrafted these.
00:39:06And I look and it's like, that person's got 4 million followers.
00:39:09And apparently all they do is imitate a guy who owns a pizza parlor.
00:39:16Like all of their content is 30-second videos of them going...
00:39:19Hey, get out of my pizza parlor.
00:39:22Is that Josh speaking there?
00:39:24Them with a different hat on.
00:39:25He's like, what are you talking about?
00:39:27I'm just looking for a pizza.
00:39:29That's the end.
00:39:30And it's got a million views.
00:39:32And you're just like, am I?
00:39:35Am I a content creator?
00:39:37Six, six, seven.
00:39:38Are you my mother?
00:39:40Six, seven.
00:39:42I can't even hear it now.
00:39:43I can't even hear six and seven in order without going six, seven.
00:39:48Because it's been beaten into me.
00:39:49I don't think any of it's funny.
00:39:51I don't think it's funny on any level.
00:39:53I'm such a sourpuss, John, and I don't talk about it because I'm a man without a flag.
00:39:59But in the same way that I use ChatGPT differently than the rest of you, plus I'm very good at ChatGPT.
00:40:07That's why you guys are sad and I am happy.
00:40:10Also, I am not interested in what hats Josh has to wear today.
00:40:15And I don't even think it's that funny to talk.
00:40:17I'll talk about it with you here.
00:40:18But I go around with one specific friend of mine in particular who follows this stuff more closely than they admit.
00:40:25And I'm just like, I cannot believe you leave.
00:40:31To me, it's like leaving your front door open from an attention standpoint.
00:40:35Like, how could you just let all... How could you let the knowledge of that just wander into your world?
00:40:40Tell me how you use ChatGPT in a smarter way than others.
00:40:47Well, I mean, just quickly, I don't want to get too far into it because people hate ChatGPT.
00:40:52But the way that I use it smarter than others is, I mean, I use it for...
00:40:57fairly straightforward things like aggregation and organization of information that then relies heavily upon previous information that I have.
00:41:09So, for example, when I'm doing stuff with, a good example would be 3D printing, it knows everything or fixing things on my Synology, my shared hard drive thing that I have, whatever it is.
00:41:18But it remembers the whole history of discussions that we have had about that.
00:41:22It knows weird stuff like what folders mean what
00:41:26It can give me commands that I copy and paste that already know all the things about my world.
00:41:33And so right before we started talking, I dropped in a 3D print.
00:41:38And I said, this thing's tearing apart at the mid-levels.
00:41:42How do I strengthen this without adding too much print time?
00:41:45And it happily gave me five ways to improve that.
00:41:47I've never asked it for...
00:41:49I've never asked it if I should harm myself.
00:41:51I've never asked it if, like, what my problem is.
00:41:54And it's never suggested that I hurt myself.
00:41:57And I don't think that's because I'm not a sad teen.
00:42:00I think it's because people use this shit in fucking weird ways.
00:42:04And that's just a bouncing-off point to say.
00:42:06And consequently, I feel the need to say here for...
00:42:10completely selfish reasons i don't think i use youtube like other people like my youtube history is like taskmaster and history and like nerd technology stuff mostly and like i don't i'm not interested like in fact if like the very first thing i see is somebody's face with nano leaf hexagon lights behind them i tend to turn it off and if it begins the first thing the person says is hey guys i turn it off and
00:42:34Like, that's not what I'm here for.
00:42:35If it's stock footage, I turn it off.
00:42:39You know, that's why... What if it's airplanes crashing?
00:42:42See, the problem is, a little of that goes a long way, because like Russian dashboard cams, your algorithm... That show meteors?
00:42:51Oh, my... Well, like, I started out... I told you this years ago.
00:42:54I kept hearing about Russian dashboard cams, and I thought, well, to have a complete education, I should at least find out what this means.
00:43:00And so you start out with something as anodyne as that bridge...
00:43:03that tall trucks keep running into, right?
00:43:07Like there's that famous bridge.
00:43:08And then like, but then you get into Russian dash cam videos and it's like, oh my gosh, or just dash cam videos in general.
00:43:13And it's like, whoa, crazy car accident.
00:43:16Somebody blew through a red light and their car flipped over three times.
00:43:19And you're like, that's pretty fucking cool.
00:43:21And within like, John, within like eight minutes, it's like top 20 motorcycle deaths.
00:43:27And it's like, you know, that went in a way I didn't want to go.
00:43:31And so then I have to try and persuade YouTube that that's not who I am.
00:43:38And no, but seriously, I mean, I will...
00:43:44And this is so funny.
00:43:45I'm so wholesome.
00:43:46I'm such an upsettingly wholesome person.
00:43:48I'll send you my recent YouTube history.
00:43:50It is almost all, like, the Taskmaster.
00:43:54Let's see.
00:43:54Here is the rest is history.
00:43:56They're doing a series on Elizabeth I right now.
00:43:58That's really good.
00:43:59Paul Scheer on Conan O'Brien.
00:44:03I sent something to Jason this morning.
00:44:05Superchunk doing a cover of Magnetic Fields.
00:44:07This morning that went up.
00:44:09Ricky Jane is 52 assistants.
00:44:11I watched that all the way through again last night.
00:44:14Good stuff.
00:44:15It's great stuff.
00:44:16I'm going to go all the way to say it's great stuff.
00:44:19Ricky Jane is 52.
00:44:20Well, somebody that I guess knows me and I kind of know on the internet has done a big upscale of it from the original VHS.
00:44:28Oh, because it's terrible.
00:44:30It's not a great copy, the one that's up.
00:44:33But also, I think I saw how he does one of his tricks.
00:44:37Look at you.
00:44:38And I like not knowing, you know.
00:44:39Yeah, I like not knowing.
00:44:40So anyway, and this is not, I'm not trying to big time, a lot of Disney videos.
00:44:46I'm not trying to big time, but just to say like, well, I don't know.
00:44:50There's this part of me, because I'm Merlin, man.
00:44:51There's this part of me that's always thinking like, gosh, a lot of you seem so unhappy.
00:44:54So, so very unhappy.
00:44:56So very emotional.
00:44:56So very angry.
00:44:58Everybody's so angry.
00:44:59And I'm like, I'm always just, I want to encourage people to look at the role that that open front door is.
00:45:05What they allow into their home from an attention standpoint could be having a role in how unremittingly unhappy they are all the time.
00:45:16And I'm like, yeah, but like then you could go watch, you know, Bob Mortimer try to make Richard Ayawade laugh.
00:45:22Or you could go watch my guy Project Farm show you which jump starter you should buy.
00:45:27You could watch Richard Thompson do the song Beeswing, which is his best song.
00:45:31Like, these are all things that you could do today.
00:45:33The Tourist on Top of the Pops doing I Only Want to Be With You, that wonderful cover with Annie Lennox and Dave, you know, for 79.
00:45:39Great cover.
00:45:40And, like, man, it's...
00:45:43I realize I sound a little manic and like, I have to just put happy things in my face, but it's, it's not even that it's that like, there's just, it's not, when you talk about the content, the content is so depressing, the stuff that a lot of people bring, bring into their world, but it's not even a given piece of content.
00:46:02It's, it's the din of low stakes, shallow, emotional bullshit that,
00:46:09That leaves you sitting in the same muddy puddle and wondering why your ass is wet My mom came in and sat down last night and said I was talking to chatty G
00:46:24And about cinnamon toast.
00:46:29Wait, does your mom said this?
00:46:33And there's a room full of people.
00:46:36I'm the only, I'm the only, uh, she has my attention.
00:46:40I'm the only, uh, like male identified person in this whole room.
00:46:44everybody else is talking about uh hormone replacement therapy and then mom says just drops this bomb i was talking to chatty g about cinnamon toast yeah yeah yeah and it becomes clear to me that what she means is she was talking to chatty g about my guinea pig
00:47:05That was named Cinnamon Toast.
00:47:07That is such a sweet name for a guinea pig, John.
00:47:09Did you name it?
00:47:11I did.
00:47:12And Cinnamon Toast was the guinea pig that I had between second and fourth grade.
00:47:18Whoa, it lived that long.
00:47:20Well, this is the thing.
00:47:21We have always wondered why Cinnamon Toast was such a remarkable guinea pig.
00:47:31Such a long, live little rodent.
00:47:34The Cinnamon Toast lived for a long time.
00:47:36Cinnamon Toast would sleep in my bed with me.
00:47:40Stop it.
00:47:41Cinnamon Toast got along with all cats.
00:47:45Oh my God.
00:47:45Cinnamon Toast basically had free roam of the house and never peed or pooped anywhere but inside of his cage.
00:47:53What an extraordinary animal.
00:47:55In summer, I would go out in the yard and Cinnamon Toast would come out and play in the grass with me while I was on the swings or whatever.
00:48:04yeah so and when cinnamon toast finally died cinnamon toast died of old age i was sleeping in the backyard in a tent and cinnamon toast was in his cage outside my tent because you know you take the cage off of the newspaper and you just put it down in the grass and cinnamon toast can eat the grass
00:48:22And he was out sleeping.
00:48:24It's almost like a little playpen.
00:48:26It's like a little playpen.
00:48:27He was out sleeping in the grass with me.
00:48:30And then he died a peaceful death in his cage in the night.
00:48:36And so my mom is talking to Chatty G about the guinea pig that I had 50 years ago.
00:48:47And she has a big smile.
00:48:49And she's like, I was talking to Chatty G about cinnamon toast.
00:48:52And Chatty G agrees that some guinea pigs are exceptional.
00:49:01Is that right?
00:49:03And I said, is that right?
00:49:06And she went on to explain in what for some people might have been a lot of detail that some guinea pigs do exhibit a greater intelligence, you know, within the guinea pig.
00:49:28within the sphere domestic guinea pigs because i don't know how well they do in the wild these days but the domestic guinea pig for some reason or other that i imagine you'll get to some some girls are bigger than others some some some guinea pigs mothers are sorry the some guinea pigs just seem to have something a little special about them and we think we know why oh
00:49:53Well, Mom, and I couldn't tell where Chatty G's speculation ended and Mom's speculation picked up and took off.
00:49:59Totally normal.
00:50:01But Mom said that there were guinea pigs that were bred as lab guinea pigs.
00:50:08And those guinea pigs, unlike Algernon.
00:50:10They're like Caesar in Planet of the Apes.
00:50:13Except they're not.
00:50:14Those are the dumb ones.
00:50:15Oh, I see.
00:50:17They're bred just to be science.
00:50:19That's Noseus.
00:50:21And then there are guinea pigs that were bred to be in kindergarten classrooms.
00:50:28as god intended natural guinea pigs and every once in a while you get one like i mean they have big boobs yeah big boobs you know big naturals no like cinnamon toast he was a larger guinea pig he had he had tremendous personality and then mom goes on to say so maybe his lineage comes from the children
00:50:52Think or maybe maybe he would maybe if he had been in the wild He would have been king of the guinea pigs in the Andes somewhere That's why he's like he's like well, you know like like Caesar or like what's the other one?
00:51:02You know like all the call the characters Roddy McDowell played.
00:51:05He's always the head the head chimp.
00:51:07He's the smartest.
00:51:08Yeah, I met him once right McDowell I met Roddy McDowell when you met him he was Tony Randall thing where I'm never quite sure what his situation is.
00:51:19He was very posh He knew my dad
00:51:21You're kidding me.
00:51:23No, and we went to see him perform in a play at the Cirque Theater.
00:51:29And afterwards, we went up and my dad introduced me because he knew that I was a fan of Rodney McDowell.
00:51:37That's why we went to the play.
00:51:40Met him.
00:51:40I can still picture him, although I was...
00:51:43Probably I probably I owned cinnamon toast at the same time.
00:51:46This is all that we're all talking about the contemporaneous with the cinnamon toast era 1977 I'm meeting Roddy McDowell over here.
00:51:55I've got cinnamon toast over here Yeah, yeah, yeah, but then so so I said to mom What were you talking to chatty G about?
00:52:05that led you to start talking about cinnamon toast, this 50 years dead.
00:52:10Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:52:13And she said, oh... Because, I mean, first of all, when you said cinnamon toast, I thought she was talking about how to make cinnamon toast.
00:52:18When you told me who cinnamon toast was, the implication being, she sat down at her computer, she logged onto the internet, and said, tell me about my guinea pig cinnamon toast.
00:52:28But that's not how it happened.
00:52:30Well, I still am unclear, because I said, did Susan...
00:52:35teach you to use Chatty G in this way?
00:52:39Because Susan talks to Chatty G every day.
00:52:43about a lot of stuff that I don't think you would approve of.
00:52:45It's not that I don't approve.
00:52:47It's just there's a phrase that I've been using since I first started using LLMs a couple years ago.
00:52:53There's a phrase I will continue to use.
00:52:54I have never asked for relationship advice from a Coke machine because that's not what a Coke machine is for.
00:53:00A Coke machine is uniquely suited when it's working correctly.
00:53:03A Coke machine will take a certain amount of money,
00:53:08in various ways, and then give you the drink that you would like, and it will hopefully be cold.
00:53:13And you can define how well the Coke machine is working by whether it took the correct amount of money and gave you the drink that you asked for.
00:53:19But I would never ask it if I'm pretty.
00:53:22Without knowing what's going on inside the Coke machine, I think as a young person, I imagined that it was converting money into Coke.
00:53:29I thought it was a mechanical Turk.
00:53:30I figured there had to be a tiny person in there.
00:53:32A little tiny person in there that was like... Enjoy your Mountain Dew.
00:53:39It's 12 ounces of delicious sugary energy.
00:53:43And I don't know... You know, Mom's becoming more and more of an unreliable narrator.
00:53:47She said... Although Susan is...
00:53:50Far and away, the most vocal proponent of Chatty G in our family talks about Chatty G and their conversations all the time.
00:53:57Mom then says, oh, no, Susan didn't teach me to use Chatty G. I mean, she mentioned it.
00:54:05And that's how she mentioned it.
00:54:08She mentions it like every time, every day.
00:54:12And so mom she but just to be clear so Susan uses it throughout the day for a variety of things including things that touch upon the internal interior personal things Yes, but but uses it enough that it comes up in the same way that like YouTube comes up because I use YouTube a lot, right?
00:54:30Yes, that's right.
00:54:31And I don't think that she's using it in ways I mean, I don't honestly
00:54:36Lord love a duck.
00:54:39Having never used it.
00:54:39I don't want to see it.
00:54:40I do not want to see her chat history at all.
00:54:41And I don't know what the hell, like when you say things like you input information into it and you get like clear programming instructions, I'm like, oh, that's cool.
00:54:53I could see if I even knew where to put that.
00:54:56Every day.
00:54:57I mean, it's developing code for me every day.
00:55:00It's fixing stuff for me.
00:55:02It's telling me,
00:55:03which sandpaper to use on this thing and why, mostly.
00:55:07And it's not, I mean, again, I had the unique displeasure of having to explain how LLMs work to a group of people who didn't know last week.
00:55:17And it's always very disorienting to people when you explain how it actually works because it's not magic.
00:55:21There's not a meaningfulness engine inside of it.
00:55:25It just figures out what the next word should be.
00:55:27And that's why, and I had to keep saying, you know, you can't ask it, you can ask it for a citation for something, for example.
00:55:35When you say, like, I'll say, like, are you just guessing about this?
00:55:37Can you check the documentation for this?
00:55:40And, you know, the thing is, if you ask it for a citation, the thing to understand, at least among understanding of this, is it's gonna just treat that as a different request for a search.
00:55:50In other words, if you say, well, how do you know that Robert Lowell said that to Robert Giroux?
00:55:55then it'll do a search to try and find that like Google would.
00:55:58But it's not telling you where it found it because it can't know how it found it because it's just putting words in order.
00:56:04And once you understand that, you get a little less mental about all of this.
00:56:07And then you take it for like, I'm sorry, I'm ranting now because it frustrates me that people are so weird about it.
00:56:12But yeah, I mean, you can get real weird with this stuff.
00:56:16Here was the thing that I didn't see coming.
00:56:17Then she said, I asked Chatty G. I didn't ask, right?
00:56:23This is unprompted.
00:56:25I'm just sitting in a chair, you know, and this is what I get.
00:56:29You're the only man in the room.
00:56:30You're the only one not on HRT in the whole place.
00:56:32That's right.
00:56:33And she said, I asked Chatty G how much pollution and energy was used by Chatty G to tell me about Cinnamon Toast.
00:56:46And Chatty G based on several I think she continued to prompt Chatty G Chatty G said it is much more polluting to stream a movie on Netflix than the amount of energy I used to tell you about Smart guinea pigs.
00:57:04I would point out that that's not really an answer to the question
00:57:07Well, and I was just like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, because I'm just, I'm, who knows where this conversation is going next.
00:57:13Yeah, I mean, I'm just, I'm still reeling from all the information.
00:57:17What am I going to do?
00:57:18Provoke my mom and my sister in a conversation about AI?
00:57:22Leave it.
00:57:23Talk about a leave it.
00:57:24Oh, Jesus.
00:57:26Rolling her eyes, you know, and I'm like, I don't, this is like, I do not want to be in the middle of this.
00:57:31Between y'all and Paul.
00:57:32Every single person I've met in the last six months.
00:57:38Because I went to a party not very long ago.
00:57:41I went to a band practice.
00:57:43I've been doing these podcasts where I'm seeing people on the internet.
00:57:48And every one of them, I'm like, so what do you do?
00:57:50And when they tell me what they do, my first thought is, well, hey, I can do that.
00:57:58Really?
00:57:59Yeah, because I have yet to find a job that AI can't do.
00:58:04It can do a lot of jobs.
00:58:05It won't necessarily do them well.
00:58:07Well, that's the thing, but that's true of people, too.
00:58:09And as anybody that's ever worked in a cafe can tell you.
00:58:13But, you know, it's like, what do you do?
00:58:15Oh, product marketing.
00:58:16Oh, boy.
00:58:17Well, AI can do a bad job of that, but the CEO is going to think it's more affordable.
00:58:23Oh, no, no, no.
00:58:25I'm sorry.
00:58:26Two things can be true at once.
00:58:27Yes, you're absolutely right.
00:58:29I think that there's going to be a pretty fair amount of regret about the muscle that's getting cut with what we hope is just easy cost savings.
00:58:38Because these are the same kinds of decisions you would make about having shittier napkins at your pizza place.
00:58:42Where it's like, can I save nine cents a day on this?
00:58:46And you'll save a lot more than that if you get rid of somebody making 80 grand a year to write press releases.
00:58:51Right.
00:58:52And the press releases won't ever be read by anybody again because, you know, because whoever reads press releases will just say, hey, what are the press releases?
00:59:01Well, yeah, the AI.
00:59:02I mean, you'll be creating AI content for AI content probably, I guess.
00:59:08Well, and that's and that so when I look at these content creators and I'm like how many of these are even real how many of these how many of these epic the musical Commentator beefs are just being generated in a Russian bot farm.
00:59:23Oh Interesting you think it's those division
00:59:28I you know anymore kind of feels I don't even know no I don't even know anymore I mean I'm I spent two days trying not to picture Donald Trump giving Bill Clinton a blowjob okay trying not to picture it it's hard to prove a negative that but that's the thing AI slop oh because of the Epstein thing yeah slop you know slop
00:59:54What a lazy fucking word.
00:59:55What a fucking lazy word.
00:59:56And the thing is, that's the thing.
00:59:58Slop is slop.
00:59:59It's a dumb guy word.
01:00:00It's one of those, you know, there's those dumb guy words like tranche, where people just love to say them because they've learned them.
01:00:07Remember after, well, after the financial crisis.
01:00:10tumult yeah tranches of data i said the other day mortgages that you would try and like the big short if you haven't watched it watch it again watch it once a year it's a great movie great movie great movie and it's got ryan gosling in it a lot of people forget that um i forgot that but uh but but you know tranche it's a dumb guy word the same way that people say you know uh they use the objective uh
01:00:31Never mind.
01:00:32I'm not going to talk about dumb people.
01:00:34I'm going to say, if it's making you happy, hakuna matata, but it seems on the face of it, apparent to me, that you people are not being made happy with this, and you have lost having any kind of a role in how the world improves with what it is you're spending your attention on.
01:00:50You should watch the Ken Burns documentary.
01:00:52And then if you are inspired to go online and have a hot take about it, don't.
01:00:57Leave it.
01:00:58You know, it opens with the Native Americans, which I like.
01:01:01Oh, that's nice.
01:01:02Well, I mean... Is there a land acknowledgement?
01:01:04Better.
01:01:05Thank God.
01:01:06Thank God.
01:01:07No, but it takes its head on, like goes straight into it.
01:01:11And believe me, if you're worried about, yeah, but you know Thomas Jefferson had slaves.
01:01:15Believe me, it comes up.
01:01:17George Washington...
01:01:20did some pretty bad did some pretty bad wooden teeth cherry tree yeah cherry tree powdered wig across the delaware did to get the delaware you got the quarter i've got the i've got the all the high notes yeah yeah you've you've you've done what did we you know we we
01:01:36We've absorbed a lot of George Washington material in our life.
01:01:39Yeah, his sword is in the Smithsonian Institution.
01:01:42Is that right?
01:01:43I saw Bert and Ernie at the Smithsonian.
01:01:46The original puppets.
01:01:47I have a photograph of it.
01:01:48It almost made me cry.
01:01:49It made me so happy.
01:01:50Because my little kid loved Ernie.
01:01:52One time, years and years ago, there was a display, a Sesame Street museum at the New York State Capitol in Albany.
01:02:03New York State Capitol.
01:02:05New York State.
01:02:06Get a rope.
01:02:07Get a rope.
01:02:08Sorry, sorry, sorry.
01:02:10So children's television workshop Sesame Street New York State and we we were I don't know what we were doing in Albany.
01:02:16We were on tour We were going from place to place and I was like we're pulling over and we're going to the Sesame Street Museum.
01:02:22Yes, and we did and it was Incredible talk about the tears.
01:02:26I mean they have the whole they had mr. Hooper store.
01:02:28Oh my god.
01:02:29I love mr. Hooper and Gordon Gordon
01:02:34That was right in my wheelhouse.
01:02:36So you're from that generation.
01:02:38I mean, it was... Obviously, I'm saying this in retrospect.
01:02:42I'm not completely stupid.
01:02:44It wasn't made for me.
01:02:45But I think it started in 1969.
01:02:49I was three years of age when that came out, which also then, of course, maybe almost as saliently, made me the perfect age for an electric company a few years later.
01:02:58Because like WOW Magazine and Dynamite Magazine, or like Target and the Gap, it's a vertical educational integration.
01:03:07But boy, I really like that.
01:03:11And you know what's funny?
01:03:11I don't know if I ever told you this.
01:03:12At one point, I think in college, when you'd say things like this, I said, oh, I said to my mom, I was home for something.
01:03:19I said, oh, mom, you know...
01:03:21Fred Rogers, he's such a good man and he's so kind.
01:03:24And you know how you're in college and you love Fred Rogers, partly because you can watch him when you're hungover, you know?
01:03:28But Fred Rogers, and she goes, what are you talking about?
01:03:32And I was like, you know, Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, you know, King Friday and all that, Lady Elaine.
01:03:38And she's like, you did not like- Speedy delivery.
01:03:42Speedy delivery.
01:03:43She's like, you did not like Mr. Rogers when you were a kid.
01:03:45I was like, what are you talking about?
01:03:46She goes, you thought it was really, really boring.
01:03:49And I had one of those, I don't know, like an M. Night Shyamalan moment where I'm like, oh, I'm so gay bones for Fred Rogers now.
01:03:56But apparently I thought he was boring when I was a child.
01:03:58And I probably said so.
01:04:00Isn't that funny?
01:04:01Well, but you know, there's three-year-old you and there's seven-year-old you.
01:04:05That's true.
01:04:06And seven-year-old you probably left a lasting impression on your mom because you were like, this is boring.
01:04:11But three to five-year-old you was like, he took his slippers off.
01:04:15It was a little slow, I will admit.
01:04:18Can I ask you a guinea pig question?
01:04:20I want to make sure I'm thinking about the right kind of animal.
01:04:23We are acquainted with, but especially we're very well acquainted with a family in the early 2000s that we'd hang out with.
01:04:32And so a guinea pig is like, so the hamsters are the little ones.
01:04:37And guinea pigs are like pretty big and eat a lot of lettuce, right?
01:04:41I mean, they're almost like a porcupine, right?
01:04:43Yeah, they're chonkers and they sit and they go chomp, chomp, chomp, chomp.
01:04:46John, they had given the guinea pig a room.
01:04:48And I don't think it was because, I don't think it was specifically because they loved it, although they did love it.
01:04:54I think it was because they were like, we need to have a place where we just have the guinea pig.
01:04:58Because if we let the guinea pig do its own thing.
01:04:59So they had a small room of the house that was basically like a guinea pig pen.
01:05:04And I thought it was so fucking weird.
01:05:07Now, did yours, did Cinnamon Toast like his little enclosure?
01:05:11Like the way Gibson did?
01:05:13oh yes because gibson like disclosure right yeah and we and i and i put a cardboard box in there that was his house that had a little door you're a good friend and then guinea pig would sit and chomp on the cardboard and you know and guinea pigs i think that they can sometimes like toss their vegetables around so that they are kind of throwing them out of the cage and some kind of guinea pig
01:05:36gesture i'm not getting a game like the way a baby throws something off their plate i think there might be a little bit of guinea pig game yeah yep yep you know i feel like guinea pigs are social and if you have more than one guinea pig they maybe spend more time thinking about one another and they don't they're not as
01:05:57Well, then let me ask my follow-up question.
01:05:59And you don't have to say, have you done any personal scholarship on your own about the extraordinary power of certain guinea pigs?
01:06:10Have you looked into this yet?
01:06:11Well, see, this is one of the things I think that differentiates me.
01:06:14Do you feel like that would be a loss for you if you looked it up?
01:06:16Like, you'd feel like, oh, you got me on that one.
01:06:18You know, you got rickrolled by the guinea pig?
01:06:21I just feel like that is not where my curiosity lay.
01:06:26Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:06:27Like wondering why Cinnamon Toast was the way he was.
01:06:32It's kind of like figuring out the magic behind a Ricky J card trick.
01:06:39Oh, boy.
01:06:39You and I don't want to know.
01:06:41I don't want to know.
01:06:41How does he keep finding all the aces?
01:06:43Yeah, we don't want to know.
01:06:44The guy that finds all the aces, the guy that's just pulling cards out of the air, I don't want to know.
01:06:50But Cardini.
01:06:51Are you talking about Cardini?
01:06:53He can't get rid of those cards.
01:06:55What the hell?
01:06:56He keeps trying to get rid of them and the girl's not even helping.
01:06:59And so when I think about cinnamon toast and all of our magical years together, I'm not trying to duplicate it by finding another one.
01:07:06I don't, you know, I'm not trying to like, I don't want to do it wrong.
01:07:10The next guinea pig I get, I may never touch a guinea pig the rest of my life.
01:07:15And so when I look back at my own life,
01:07:18I almost never, if I'm going to ask why about something in the scope of my life, it's never going to be in the family, which is one of the many reasons that talking to my mom is amazing.
01:07:34Because exactly.
01:07:36That's why there's other people, John.
01:07:38Where the hell did that come from?
01:07:40And, you know, and she was obviously storing it up because she wanted to talk to me about it the next time she saw me like, oh, guess what?
01:07:48Chatty G says that cinnamon toast was an exceptional guinea pig.
01:07:54Can I tell you something?
01:07:56I don't know if this will count as a peer-reviewed study, but I did just ask, I said the chat GPT just now, briefly, are some guinea pigs extraordinary?
01:08:06And you know what it said?
01:08:09It said, yeah, because it speaks in vernacular now.
01:08:12Every so often you get one that's unusually bold, clever, social, or just has a weirdly big personality.
01:08:19They're outliers, but they exist.
01:08:23Then that's Cinnamon Toast in 100%.
01:08:25Exactly.
01:08:26Cinnamon Toast, according to my mom, who was a grown-up at the time.
01:08:30Yes, she was a grown lady managing computers.
01:08:33She was a grown lady managing computers.
01:08:35And she says that she identified different calls that Cinnamon Toast would make for each person in the house.
01:08:42Oh, my God.
01:08:43She said when she woke up at 5 o'clock in the morning, Cinnamon Toast had a distinctive morning call he would give her.
01:08:49Look, he was saying good morning specifically to her.
01:08:52But if he was sleeping in my bed with me, he would not make the call.
01:08:57It has contextual awareness.
01:08:59Don't wake John.
01:09:00Only if he's in the cage did he give his little chirp to her of greeting in the morning.
01:09:05If he was in bed with me.
01:09:07This makes me think I should stop eating guinea pigs.
01:09:10Or at least stop feeding them to your giant snake.
01:09:14He's not so smart.
01:09:16Stupid snake.
01:09:18Are some snakes extraordinary?
01:09:21Ask chat GPT.
01:09:22How the hell am I supposed to know?
01:09:23How about this?
01:09:25Are some horses extraordinary?
01:09:30Because here's the thing.
01:09:32Here's the thing that some people, some people don't know about Chachiputi.
01:09:36Chachiputi will rarely tell you no.
01:09:39What it will tell you is try to find something that comes up with it.
01:09:42It says, sure, some horses stand out for brains, temperament, athletic ability, or just an uncanny bond with people.
01:09:49Same deal as with any species.
01:09:50A few are real outliers.
01:09:53Outliers keeps coming up.
01:09:55Am I making you frustrated?
01:10:00I'm making you frustrated.
01:10:02Well, it sounded like it was getting a little short with me, and it said, no, you're fine.
01:10:06No, you're fine.
01:10:07Well, I recently changed.
01:10:08I told it to be more terse, because I've had it.
01:10:10I've had it with all this shucking and jiving.
01:10:12You can tell it how to be.
01:10:14You know that, right?
01:10:15You can say, hey, can you speak to me in like Valley Girl talk?
01:10:19Oh, absolutely.
01:10:20You should see, at one point it took 100,000 tokens just to load my instructions each time.
01:10:26Because my instructions are very, very deep.
01:10:31It knows a lot about it.
01:10:33It knows...
01:10:35It knows or at one point, I won't say that it knows because I don't know what it knows, but what it has learned in the past from me is not to say the shit that drives me fucking bananas, to not use neologisms that I dislike.
01:10:50I've asked it not to turn nouns into verbs if there's a better verb that says what you want.
01:10:56I've asked it to avoid all of the things that drive me fucking crazy about dumb guys.
01:11:01Now, when you say tokens, are you like paying it Dogecoin?
01:11:05No, it's 20 bucks a month, but like, no, there's, there's, I, I, I don't know enough to explain it, but it takes a certain, basically, and then John, John Syracuse has actually explained this really well, is that basically every time you enter anything, everything's, what is his phrase?
01:11:20Everything's input.
01:11:21All it's doing is reacting to what you've inputted.
01:11:23know what you put in the prompt it'll be different each time like it's all different depends on the heat index and all that kind of stuff but but no but like it's all just input and so it knows where i was born it knows it knows it knows all the things and i i utilize that you know anyways this has become about chat gpt and that's really depressing
01:11:42Yeah, well, I mean, as somebody who's still, you know, never held a Nintendo Game Boy in his hand, I'm always going to be your... I'm always going to be your fact-checking friend who's like, what?
01:11:55What about the voice of... Hang on, hang on, hang on.
01:11:58What about the voice...
01:12:01Of Getty Lee?
01:12:03Question mark.
01:12:04How did it get so high?
01:12:09Let's see what it says.
01:12:10What about the voice of Getty Lee?
01:12:12How did it get so high?
01:12:13No, see, see?
01:12:16Oh my fucking, oh my fucking God.
01:12:18You're such a nerd.
01:12:19What's it say?
01:12:20Well, it's supposed to say in the voice of Bob Nastakovich.
01:12:23Then, you know, and he goes, aw, you're my fact-checking cousin, aw.
01:12:26Yeah, I know him, and he does.
01:12:28And he does.
01:12:28Physiology, technique, influences, and then youth plus adrenaline.
01:12:33He retrained himself.
01:12:34There's a really good spirit of radio from their induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
01:12:39Their whole Rock and Roll Hall of Fame with the Foo Fighters is a really good performance worth watching.
01:12:44But they go into, they do this thing where they do this intro, this medley before, why am I telling you this?
01:12:49You don't care.
01:12:49You don't want to crush, right?
01:12:51I love Rush.
01:12:52I thought Eric liked Rush.
01:12:54Eric worshipped Rush.
01:12:57But that was your warm-up.
01:12:58You did Spirit of Radio as a warm-up song sometimes, right?
01:13:00Or a check-the-PA song.
01:13:02I've seen Rush three times.
01:13:06Really?
01:13:06Which is more than a lot of people.
01:13:07Whoa, I've seen Rush once.
01:13:09I saw him on that Washing Machine tour.
01:13:11It was really good.
01:13:12I saw the Washing Machine tour.
01:13:13Not their finest hour, I didn't think.
01:13:16No, but I mean, you know, did you see him back in the day?
01:13:20Me neither.
01:13:21Me neither.
01:13:21I would have killed to see them.
01:13:22Because, like, I still, I'm like, you fucking cowards.
01:13:25Release Existage Left in 4K, you fucking cowards.
01:13:29You can go get it online.
01:13:30You can get it on, of all places, YouTube.
01:13:32If you go back and you watch Existage Left, seriously.
01:13:361981, Montreal.
01:13:37I was worried that they were Satan worshippers.
01:13:39Of course.
01:13:40Look at this black t-shirt.
01:13:45There's at least two things about this black t-shirt that are very upsetting.
01:13:48One of them is a man's ass.
01:13:49Yeah, a naked man.
01:13:50And then as you say, what's he walking into, John?
01:13:54Is he walking into a crucifix?
01:13:56He's walking into a devil's pentagram.
01:14:01Not a pentagon.
01:14:02Not a pentagon.
01:14:03He's...
01:14:04No, it looks like he's being tortured by Satan.
01:14:07He's reaching into it.
01:14:08He's trying to reach out to the priests of the Temple of Syrinx.
01:14:13Yeah, they might be kids in Satan's service like so many others.
01:14:16I heard your mom has a caress of steam.
01:14:26We did it.
01:14:28Hour and 16 minutes.
01:14:29Pew, pew, pew.

Ep. 602: "Cinnamon Toast"

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