Ep. 600: "Lifestyle Manager"
John:Hello.
John:Hi, John.
John:Hi, Merlin.
John:How's it going?
John:Good.
John:Or as my phone likes to say, Melrin.
John:I had to change that.
John:I had to fix that.
Merlin:How do you fix it?
Merlin:Go to general, go to settings, somewhere, keyboard, and there's a thing called text replacements.
Merlin:Oh.
Merlin:So like when you type Melrin,
Merlin:with your fingers, like let's say some people do, even if it's their own name, you can have that correct to Merlin, which is technically my given name.
Merlin:God, there are so many words.
Merlin:I know.
Merlin:You know, it's also handy as long as we're doing life hacks.
Merlin:You can also do that for phone numbers, which is very handy.
John:When was the last time you typed in a phone number?
Merlin:Well, with text replacements, I don't have to.
Merlin:If I want to send somebody my wife's phone number, I just type Mad Sal.
Merlin:One word.
John:Oh, that's a Mad Sal.
Merlin:Mad Sal.
Merlin:She didn't pick her name.
John:No, but, you know, a good friend of mine picked his daughter's name after your wife's beautiful name.
John:Not specifically, though.
John:Yeah.
Merlin:Oh, is that right?
Merlin:Is anybody I like?
Merlin:Yeah.
Merlin:How's the kid?
John:Is the kid cool?
John:Josh and Emily, they're first born.
John:Madeline.
John:And her name is Madeline, is that correct?
John:Her name is Madeline, and it was because they met Madeline Mann.
John:Madeline Mann.
John:And they said, what a beautiful name.
John:What a beautiful lady.
John:Huh.
John:How many kids they got?
John:They have the two.
John:What do they do now?
John:Well, you know, Madeline Rosenfeld now is on the marching band at the University of Oregon.
John:Oh, my goodness.
John:That's exciting.
Merlin:I know.
Merlin:If the time flies, am I right?
Merlin:Now, the problem is, Madeline's name used to be, before she took my name, um...
Merlin:As is the tradition.
Merlin:Yeah, sure, sure, sure.
Merlin:Her last, well, I mean, I probably shouldn't say it.
Merlin:Her last name was Steinus.
Merlin:Steinus?
Merlin:Yeah.
Merlin:That's her family's name, Steinus.
John:I guess I remember that.
Merlin:That was so long ago.
Merlin:Oh, my God.
Merlin:When we first met, I wrote her a song that I still like to sing today, and I'll perform it for you now.
Merlin:I'm here.
Merlin:Madeline Steinus, cure for shyness, how in the wine is, I got a Steinus in fiction, baby.
Merlin:Oh, oh, oh.
Merlin:Yeah Like you I like to write my lyrics at the last minute under a lot of pressure So well Mike Squires is tapping his foot so somewhere and I I'm sure this is Out there in the world.
John:No.
John:No, it may not be.
John:Oh, is this breaking news?
John:I think this might be breaking news
John:Years ago, Sean Nelson and I had a couple of different bands that we kind of floated to see how they worked.
John:One of them was called Tennessee Valley Authority.
John:That's a good name.
John:It was a great name for a band.
John:Well, especially if you can make stickers that say TVA.
John:TVA, exactly.
John:It was great.
John:And the band was cool.
John:and there were a lot we were just trying to find different outlets for sean's songwriting if i could go back in time to 2001 a space odyssey yes i would have worked a lot harder to just be a musical supporter and companion to sean i would have just i would have played the guitar in his band i would have just said you know but at the time i didn't understand that you could do that and i was like i have to focus on my band
John:Yeah.
John:But I could have just been like, yeah, man.
Merlin:You could have been like Eric Clapton in the late 60s where he's just playing with everybody.
John:Yeah.
John:And that's what I should have.
John:If I could go back, I would have done it.
John:Yeah.
John:But at one point, we were playing a show at the Crocodile Cafe, a big show.
John:and uh and sean was working on some new material and we had and i'd learned some of his tunes on guitar and we were playing it and we're playing a big show and you know a lot of people in the room and sean's like here's the new song and he sings
John:Because he has a song on his later record called Happiness Writes White.
Merlin:That's a really good pop song that I hope he won't mind.
Merlin:I hope he will take this as the compliment with which it is intended, especially with that keyboard.
Merlin:It really reminds me favorably of the zombies.
Merlin:Yes, right and I think that would think the zombies are were an influence on him But he was always like this will be our year has like a like a like What is that a not a farfisa, but a you know a Mellotron right?
Merlin:It's kind of a Mellotron sound.
Merlin:Yeah a little Mellotron sound.
John:That's a good record
John:It's a really good record.
John:But the challenge, I think, for somebody who's married, this was my impression of us all in our 20s and 30s, was that I could write, as a non-married person, I could write a bunch of sad songs about how romance never worked and love was a big pain in the butt.
John:Right, first person.
John:But if you're married, yes, you're not supposed to.
Merlin:You got to be like Randy Newman and say, it's my persona.
John:Yeah, it's my persona.
John:And Sean did that a lot.
John:Like if you like Pike Street Park Slope, like a repertory movie house and all that, people would be like, well, so that's a song about Sean.
John:And he'd be like, no, it's my persona.
John:Your persona is awfully close to you and Everything that you want in life.
John:Yes, your persona I get it.
John:It helps to be based on a true story in life.
John:I think so.
John:Yeah, but in this case He was always true because Ariella was a huge fixture on the Seattle music scene.
John:She's best every show.
Merlin:She's amazing I've hung out with her.
Merlin:I think a total of perhaps three times
Merlin:Maybe.
Merlin:And I thoroughly enjoy it every time.
John:Yeah.
John:She's sly.
Merlin:She's just ridiculously charismatic.
John:It sneaks out the side.
John:She has little comments.
John:But, you know, she was the... I've talked about it before.
John:She was one of a little group of...
John:of uh gals who stood at the back of the rock shows and they were all in their little pinstripe suits because they worked day jobs and emily alfred uh who started barsuk records with josh rosenfeld she worked at amazon.com christopher out of uh and christopher was there although he was not one of the cute girls
John:Um, and, and so, and you know, and they, they had like Mary Janes on and they would, and they was, everybody else was so grunge.
John:All right.
John:And they were just leaning against the back wall, you know, smoking cigarettes.
John:I'm like, we're, we're the ones that are actually paying for all this type of thing.
John:Trad wives they call them.
John:Trad wives, that's right.
John:Except they were the boss ladies.
Merlin:Don't they have wives of people like tennis wags?
Merlin:What is it?
Merlin:Isn't there a term for this now?
Merlin:I need to learn more things.
Merlin:Never mind.
Merlin:Go ahead.
Merlin:So anyways, in the back, you got all these people.
Merlin:And girls like barsuk music, which is unusual.
Merlin:It's different, as I say in England, different to a lot of rock music.
John:Yes, that's right.
John:That's right.
John:And it's, you know, and you can be a strong independent woman and like sappy, sad-ass indie pop, like lame boys.
John:I do.
John:Sweater boys, if you know what I mean.
John:No, I do.
John:I know too well.
John:So, Happiness Rights White was Sean's attempt to write a song for Ariella.
John:And in the song, he's literally saying, I have never written a song about you because happiness...
John:writes white great line when i write this down it's the same color as the page because i'm happy that's right yeah that's right and so and it was very clever and and he he he names her in the song but at this tennessee valley authority show this was before that record came out before happiness writes white he was trying out
John:trying to write a song for Ariella.
Merlin:For some reason, I'm sorry.
Merlin:I just immediately, I don't know why, because this is my file card for trying on a new thing.
Merlin:Imagine him coming out in a leather vest.
Merlin:Or maybe a leather cowboy hat.
Merlin:Like a vest with fringe, like fringe on it.
Merlin:I'm thinking more like maybe the guy who plays pedal steel for Merle Haggard in the 70s.
John:that's kind of that was sort of maybe that was that could have been us right and so he starts the song and i'm strumming some chords and aaron huffman is playing the bass i don't know squires might have even been in the band and he sings ariela are you sleeping you must be because there's a kitty on your head
John:Yeah.
Huh.
Merlin:It's kind of a regular Jeremiah was a bullfrog type situation.
John:And the song went on from there.
John:Scrambled eggs.
John:But I'm strumming the guitar, and I just can't.
John:I'm just...
John:Doing everything I can to keep it together.
Merlin:I just imagine you waving your arms around like Elvis Costello.
John:There's no point in playing this.
John:I'm like... And he's 100% earnest and the room is just like taking it all in.
John:Ariella, are you sleeping?
John:And the melody was very jazz, you know.
John:Ariella, are you sleeping?
John:You must be.
John:Because there's a kitty on your head.
John:And I have never, I don't think I've ever said her name without thinking the whole song, but I also sing it to her all the time.
Merlin:I think when I hear it still, I mean, I knew her before that song existed, but when I hear her name, I still start singing the beginning of that.
John:Of the happiness rights white.
John:Yeah.
John:Yeah.
Merlin:um and so yeah it's 25 years now i've been yeah that was like their big third their third their big london third record right that was the third one you know i didn't go anywhere but it was really good well it was one of those like i know because we know what the phrase is for that band and it's a bummer but it was a they put that record out and it was like pay what you want i remember it was i think it was a after i knew you
John:Must have been.
John:I paid money for it.
John:It was?
John:Yeah.
John:God bless you.
John:God bless you.
John:You're one of those pay money for things.
John:I like Aaron Hoffman.
John:He's all right.
Merlin:He was a good man.
Merlin:I have trouble getting a beat on Jeff sometimes.
John:Hard to understand.
Merlin:Yeah, but I am too, so I try to take that into account.
John:The other last year we were out driving around and our little girl said, I want to play mini golf today.
John:And we're like, OK, well, we go to the same.
John:I wish I had that kind of clear.
John:I'm sorry.
John:I wish I had that kind of clarity day to day.
John:I know.
John:And normally we don't.
John:Normally it's like, what do you want to do?
John:I don't know.
John:Do you want to make caramel corn?
John:No.
John:Do you want to go to the blue?
John:No.
John:Yeah.
John:She's like, I want to play mini golf.
John:Well, we know all the mini golf courses because we like mini golf.
John:And it was like, we got to try someplace new.
John:Yeah.
John:And I looked up and there's a mini golf place in the mall in Factorio, an indoor mini golf play.
John:So I was like, let's go to the mall in Factorio.
John:There used to be a little playground there that she went to when she was a little girl.
John:So we drive to the mall.
John:We get in.
John:Here's the mini golf place.
John:It's part of a video game arcade.
Merlin:Oh, yeah, one of those.
Merlin:We've got a thing here called Round One, and it's got grabber machines and bowling, and it's one of those all the fun in one place type places.
Merlin:Exactly.
Merlin:Family fun center, I'd call it.
John:It's a family fun center.
John:All of downtown, what would you call it?
John:Yeah.
John:uh what's the uh beach town oh i know the one you mean the one where everybody lifts weights yeah yeah i know what you mean oh no but it's that one but then there's the other one where the vampires were remember outside of san francisco it's the little beach town down there that's um you go over the hills santa cruz that's where my wife went to college
John:Yeah, exactly.
John:Ariella went there for a year.
John:Shut up.
John:I swear to you, I'm not lying right now.
Merlin:Madeline went to Bard for two years.
Merlin:She went to college with Steely Dan and then went to UCSC for the last two years.
Merlin:That's wild.
John:Yes.
Merlin:See, hey, listeners, I don't address the listeners.
Merlin:I think it's unseemly to address the listeners.
Merlin:John and I started this program because we like talking on the phone, and we didn't always do it every week, but we enjoy talking on the phone.
Merlin:I'm still learning things about John's life.
Merlin:All these new things.
Merlin:All these new things.
John:So we go into this place, and it's like ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, video game place.
Merlin:Yes, yes, yeah, baby casino.
John:But the walls are all painted black.
John:The ceiling's painted black.
John:And on all of the walls in day glow paint, day glow paint, are scary clowns and skulls.
Merlin:Oh, no.
Merlin:Is it haunted golf?
John:It's like haunted, like east side death golf.
John:I don't know.
John:Spooky neon death golf.
John:And I'm walking around and I'm like...
John:boy, sweetie, for someone like me who has highly sensitive personality disorder, this is very overwhelming, overstimulating.
John:And she said, yeah, me too.
John:And at that moment,
John:I look over and there's Jeff J. Lynn, guitar player.
John:Shut up.
Merlin:And what was he there for?
Merlin:Was he there to play putt-putt also?
John:Well, here's the big question because Jeff J. Lynn has been living in San Francisco for many years and is a tech startup person.
John:Okay.
John:And was married and so forth.
John:Wow.
John:And I said, married with kids.
John:And I said, Jeff J. Lynn.
John:And he turns around and looks surprised and very surprised.
John:And I was like...
John:What are you doing in Seattle?
John:And he said, oh, oops.
John:I moved back here a couple of years ago.
Merlin:And you haven't run into him.
Merlin:You guys run in different circles now, it sounds like.
John:Well, and his wife was there and his two sons, twin sons.
John:And I was like, oh.
John:The Lins.
John:The Lins.
John:Little J Lins.
John:It wasn't necessary that he get in touch, right?
John:You can move back to a place and not get in touch.
John:Right.
John:But, you know, a lot of things happen.
John:There's events.
John:You play bass on TV with him.
John:I did.
John:I did.
John:And so we stood there and had a, I would say, a fairly awkward conversation at the death metal, like, putt-putt golf place.
John:I believe you called it, I wrote this down, haunted east side death golf.
John:haunted east side death gulf and then it was like well hey we should get in touch sometime and his wife came over and she knew who i was and she didn't she was like okay great to see you so it was clearly kind of a thing compliment your child uh she had she had skateboarded off i mean she was just like uh as soon as somebody's like john she's like peace out right right right she's had to stand there for enough of those um
John:But, and I complimented his beautiful boys, but I think it was one of those, like, I'm not in the life anymore.
John:Out the game.
John:I'm out of the game now.
John:And so I don't, you know, I don't come around.
John:And so anyway, so I haven't, I haven't talked to Jeff since, but I know he's here.
John:He's somewhere up here.
John:That's terrific.
John:Yeah, it's nice.
John:He's nice and nice.
John:He's got a nice family.
Merlin:I ran into somebody at the protest that I knew
Merlin:15 or 20 years ago when you were merlin man well yeah and that's how i met him i met him because i was merlin man and he i would see him at things and now he's all grown up and he's got long hair and he's got a wife and two kids like a person it's the weirdest thing in the world yeah yeah yeah he's tall david yeah and i got his name right in one hey good job well you you
John:Daddy not good with names.
John:No, I know.
John:I know.
John:Me either.
John:I mean, I know.
John:And especially a name like David.
Merlin:I know.
Merlin:I know.
Merlin:Well, I figured I could do Jason or Todd.
Merlin:I got lucky.
Merlin:Jeff, wow.
Merlin:Yeah, because the thing is...
Merlin:This is not about Jeff J. Lynn, nor his beautiful boys.
Merlin:No.
Merlin:Nor his distant wife.
Merlin:No.
Merlin:But not all connections need to be remade.
John:It's true.
Merlin:And we've covered this, I think, a little bit in the past.
Merlin:And I don't know why I think of this as a Bellingham thing.
Merlin:But like, you know, the classic, well, you know, it's a classic what?
Merlin:Just a classic West Coast thing.
Merlin:The like, hey, let's do lunch.
Merlin:Hey, we should hang out.
Merlin:Yeah.
Merlin:And my rule of thumb, I haven't written this down anywhere, but like my rule of thumb on that stuff is like, well, first of all, any business discussion that happens in a bar doesn't count.
Merlin:Also, well, and really, I mean, further to that point where I get into the personal is it's not we're not we shouldn't really talk about that unless we make a plan to make a plan right now.
Merlin:Otherwise, we should just say it's great seeing you.
Merlin:I'm glad you're alive.
Merlin:Right.
Merlin:Which is a nice way.
Merlin:That's a nice thing to say.
Merlin:Because usually sometimes if somebody doesn't want it, one person might want it more than the other.
Merlin:Right.
Merlin:Or the fact is neither of you wants it.
Merlin:Not not Jeff J. Lynn, but anybody.
Merlin:Nobody wants anything.
Right.
John:Well, you know, like famously, at least famously in our very small circle up here, many, many, many, many years ago, I was just getting to know celebrity Roderick on the Line fan, Chris Ballew of the Presidents of the United States of America.
John:He's a nice guy.
John:He's very busy.
John:He's a busy guy.
John:He's got a lot going on.
John:And he did then, too.
John:And...
John:And the long winters had opened for the presidents a couple times, and I was already pretty good friends with Jason.
John:We should put him on our board.
John:I like that guy.
John:He should be on our board.
John:Just so we can exclude Jason.
John:Yeah, exactly.
John:Sorry, Jason.
John:We only had one spot on the board.
John:Chris kind of, you know, Chris has got a lot of irons in the fire.
John:He'll buy some art.
John:Piece of shit.
John:He knows a lot of stuff, and I mean, Jason, you kind of just, you know.
Merlin:Yeah.
John:We like the other one better.
John:But so, you know, we run into each other.
John:Seattle's a small town.
John:Chris is very busy.
John:He was, you know, a big rock star, of course.
John:But we were standing in the parking lot of the grocery store one day.
John:Hey, how's it going?
John:Great.
John:Good to see you.
John:Nice to see you.
John:And I said, yeah, we should totally get together and hang out sometime.
John:And he said, yeah, you know, that's never going to happen.
John:But thanks.
Merlin:Oh, my God.
Merlin:I had such a similar experience with him.
Merlin:i was like oh i had a hilariously disarmingly similar experience with him is that right what was the context i mean i don't i don't know i feel we were talking about like pseudo personal stuff but no he's he's for i think we should put him on the board he's really nice and he is a very busy guy yeah very cool um so he's a nutter butter he's got his secret job but then is like his public job is he uh he worked you know he works on submarines but then also he makes children's music that's really good sure although not anymore
Merlin:Because now he has a submarine job all the time, right?
John:Yeah, I think 98% of the time he's just cooking meth, I think.
Merlin:But, you know, that's typical.
Merlin:That's typical.
Merlin:That's what you'd expect.
Merlin:But, no, this is not funny, but, like, it was disarming to me because he kind of pulled a Merlin on me.
Merlin:Because, like, I feel gross saying this.
Merlin:Is this back when he was Merlin, man?
Merlin:I don't remember.
Merlin:Which one am I?
Merlin:No, don't feel gross.
Merlin:Go ahead.
Merlin:That's a little gross.
Merlin:But anyway, occasionally...
Merlin:Like a handful of my friends, because I literally have a handful of friends.
Merlin:Jason's really my only friend.
Merlin:But you have big hands.
Merlin:Well, big hands, small heart.
Merlin:Everyone's welcome.
Merlin:white sauce not a problem not a problem what do you call the costa rican sewer lid breakfast anyhow um and so he'll occasionally drop a nice little short email about something and but it's not it's nice because like i do that like
Merlin:He loves the program.
Merlin:I don't know about that.
Merlin:He loves you.
Merlin:But I think he listens.
Merlin:Loves you.
Merlin:He loves you.
Merlin:Well, okay.
Merlin:Thank you.
Merlin:He's aware of the show.
Merlin:And sometimes he'll write a really nice little short email.
Merlin:And I'll write him back.
Merlin:And I'll, you know, I'm sweaty.
Merlin:And I'm like, oh, man.
Merlin:Because I don't really know him.
Merlin:But like, you know.
Merlin:You know, he played with Beck.
John:Oh, when?
John:He was Beck's bass player.
John:Back before the presidents of the United States.
John:Yeah.
John:Oh, shit.
Merlin:Really?
Merlin:Yeah.
Merlin:Whoa.
Merlin:You know, when I saw Beck, he had a really good band.
Merlin:Beck's a good musician.
Merlin:Yeah, he is a good musician.
Merlin:And he knows how to pick them.
Merlin:He's a Scientologist.
John:Yes.
John:You know, Elizabeth Olsen is, too.
John:A lot of people are.
John:Who's the Scientologist?
John:I was doing one of those search through the things thing.
John:And it was like, man, he's a Scientologist.
Merlin:Yeah.
Merlin:No, it still comes up.
Merlin:But anyway, I did a thing I don't do a ton, which is like, hey, you know.
Merlin:I don't really know you.
Merlin:Well, I mean, I do this with people and whatever.
Merlin:I'm like, I know I seem like I don't go anywhere and don't talk to anybody and don't do anything because I largely don't.
Merlin:But I was like, hey, you know, why don't we have a call and just, you know, say hi sometime.
Merlin:And he wrote me back this really short.
Merlin:I was like, because and I think what I probably said was because see it my entire life plus the first third of this show.
Merlin:If it's not a plan, it's not a plan.
Merlin:And I was saying, you want to schedule a call?
Merlin:And he's like, I should find it because it was really funny.
Merlin:And I don't think this is the first time he's ever done this.
Merlin:And it feels very familiar, I can tell you.
Merlin:It's like, okay, well, a lot going on.
Merlin:I'll just give me your phone number and I'll give you a call sometime.
Merlin:Oh, that's not the same as scheduling a call.
Merlin:No, no.
Merlin:See, I like to schedule a call.
Merlin:And there's all kinds of ways that that creates a disparity in the relationship.
Merlin:Chris, if you are listening to this, A, I hope you don't mind me saying this.
Merlin:B, I really enjoy your work.
Merlin:And C, please be on the board just so we can exclude Jason.
Merlin:Because I think it'd be funny.
Merlin:Do you want to be the one to tell Jason or shall I?
Merlin:Oh, Jason will find out.
Merlin:Because I don't think he listens.
Merlin:I don't think Jason listens to the show, but we listen to a lot of the same music.
John:So I've kind of pivoted.
John:You know, Jason manages not just the band, not just his band, but he manages everybody that comes within 100 feet of him.
Merlin:You think he's a lifestyle manager.
Merlin:Oh, yeah.
Merlin:Or like full-time cosplay lifestyle manager.
Merlin:He's been like stealth managing me for a decade.
Merlin:He's like a border collie, right?
Merlin:You can't get him to stop hurting.
John:He's hurting hard.
John:He's sort of just like, I don't think you want to do that.
John:And he does the thing where he's like, didn't I tell you that?
John:Didn't I tell you that?
John:I told you that six months ago.
John:Well, but he did.
John:Yeah, yeah, but still.
John:It's unseemly.
John:I mean, but if I had let him manage me, I would have murdered him years ago.
Merlin:Hasn't he tried to manage you recently?
Merlin:He had some kind of a really specific... I'm confusing him with your sister.
Merlin:It wasn't that he came over to clean your house, but didn't he come over at one point to do something to set your life straight?
John:I think he's... I mean, he's always trying to set my life straight, but he doesn't want to do any...
Merlin:regular phone calls He wants to I mean he might want to do some phone calls, but I think what he wants is to employ somebody to actually Yes, it was finding you and he it was his job He was like the Dick Cheney remember when Dick Cheney came in just to lead the vice presidential search for George Bush It was him and Jason in that exact same voice goes
Merlin:Anybody but me should be.
Merlin:So it was his job to go out and identify people who could help you find an assistant.
Merlin:He wasn't going to find you an assistant.
Merlin:Wasn't he going to be a finder's finder?
Merlin:It might have been.
Merlin:I got so confused at that point.
Merlin:That's a manager, though.
Merlin:You go in, enter managing.
Merlin:That's what they always say.
John:Yeah.
John:Yeah, he's management forward, you know?
John:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John:Yeah.
John:He used to say that the other guys in the band didn't manage their airline miles.
John:And this was back when they were flying all around the world to do shows.
John:You know, the presidents used to get these gigs.
John:You told me about this.
John:They get like, you know, five figures to go to Europe for a weekend.
Oh.
John:Or, yeah, they'd fly to pass for a show and then fly back.
John:And it's like, that's nine hours away.
John:That's cool as hell.
John:It's cool.
John:But Jason was managing his miles.
John:And the other guys were like, ah, la, la, la, la, la, la, la.
John:And it's not even that they're too punk rock.
John:It's just like, you know what it's like.
John:I'm not going to do that.
John:That's dumb or whatever.
John:That's for somebody else.
Merlin:My thought would be that's how they get you.
Merlin:Whenever I do anything with airline miles, first of all, nothing actually counts.
Merlin:Like, unless you're like a baller.
Merlin:Like, you know, I've used miles.
Merlin:I've been so fucking mad.
Merlin:I'll never forget one time I used miles to upgrade to first class.
Merlin:I think it's the only time I've ever used miles for anything.
Merlin:And the flight got changed.
Merlin:And I got kicked back to coach.
Merlin:And I didn't get money or points back.
Yeah.
Merlin:So manage that, Jason.
John:Oh, those villains.
John:Oh, I'm so man on your behalf.
Merlin:Oh, I don't like the way those companies operate, John.
Merlin:I'm not going to lie to you.
Merlin:I think a lot of them are pretty fast and loose with our lives.
Merlin:So Jason manages Miles.
John:Because he can't stop managing.
John:He's a border collie.
John:He got this nickname in the rock world.
John:Everybody called him Goldmember.
John:because he was a gold member not as in the austin powers joke but as in the like he's he's like somebody in a in an 80s like american express commercial exactly he's just like everywhere they went and this used to this used to drive me crazy when other people would do it to me jonathan colton high-hatted me one time when we flew to africa and he was like he gold membered his way all that all the way to africa and i'm i'm back in economy comfort like with lieutenant colonel what's
Merlin:his name yeah what the hell are you doing up there he's like what am i gonna do fly back there with you i'm a gold member you run into this you do you run into this when you start traveling with other people and like other people other people who've got that it's like they think it's so weird when you're like hey you upgraded to first class and i'm stuck back here and they're like yeah that's why you get this i know if you you know if you lived here you'd already be home and if you managed your miles you wouldn't be sitting back there uh you know
John:i don't know uh nibbling on uh sponge cake or whatever but it's funny you know my my kid went to europe with their class last year oh man and i and i remembered watching them get a set up and psyched to go that just flying on a plane with your friends was a big part of the adventure sure like they didn't even care about going to rome for a week they just couldn't believe they were going to be on an airplane with one another
John:Yeah.
John:And that's the thing when you're like, I'm going on a trip with my friends and we're going to sit next to each other and talk the whole time.
John:And then the friend is like, I'm going to be up in first class eating food with real silverware.
John:Whoa.
John:And you're like, well, what the fuck then?
John:Huh?
Merlin:Yeah.
Merlin:So that's that.
Merlin:Hmm.
Merlin:Hmm.
Merlin:Hmm.
Merlin:As a parent, that would trouble me.
Merlin:Yeah.
Merlin:When did she find out?
Merlin:Did she find out at the airport?
Merlin:She knew ahead of time.
Merlin:She must have known.
John:Oh, no, no, no.
John:Her class, they all flew together.
John:I'm talking about Jonathan Colton didn't want to sit with me.
John:Oh, but he wasn't on the flight with your kid.
John:No, and none of these kids had any gold status.
John:As you say, status is something.
John:I'm from Ohio.
Merlin:I used to get excited about bus rides.
John:Exactly.
John:Go to the National History Museum.
John:You go to the cave.
John:You put on your pillbox hat and your white gloves to go on a bus.
John:Like, make a day of it.
John:Like, I'm going to church in Atlanta.
John:Yeah.
John:Exactly.
John:Yeah.
John:But these days, the only people with platinum status, they're all brown shoe tractor salesmen.
John:Like, nobody.
John:Regular people like you can't get there.
John:That sounds like something has been poorly translated from Japanese.
John:brown shoe tractor salesman i'm not gonna do the voice why the hell is that on the menu you know like a salary man you know yeah yeah that's right yeah that's right well that's the thing when you go to the delta lounge now you know a small flex here you go to the delta lounge you walk around and you're like oh i get it everybody in here is a tractor salesman and or the or the tech people
John:Ugh.
John:Right?
John:Eating half a bagel like a cup.
John:This isn't fun anymore.
Merlin:It's not, and they're gross, and they're dirty, and they're crowded, and they're not cool.
Merlin:I mean, I don't travel anymore.
Merlin:Fuck that.
Merlin:But when I did, I mean, I would try and hustle my way into those things, or like, oh, and then you get into those weird edge cases where you're like, okay, yes, you are flying on British Airways for this thing, but that doesn't get you access to the lounge unless you want to use the things and the points and the whatnot, and...
Merlin:I don't know.
Merlin:We did it one time in Austin because we had a baby.
Merlin:I have a cute picture of our baby in the lounge because we didn't want to go be with the riffraff at South by Southwest sitting in it.
Merlin:Yeah.
John:Oh, my God.
John:Oh, those planes.
John:The flights to South by Southwest.
Merlin:Well, we didn't fly.
Merlin:I don't think.
Merlin:No, I did a talk there.
Merlin:So they flew me there.
Merlin:But like, no, that was coach.
Merlin:That's okay.
Merlin:But like, no, we paid for the lounge one time.
Merlin:Yeah.
Merlin:Just to have a place to have your baby not be.
Merlin:Well, because you know how it is.
Merlin:Sure.
Merlin:Like, it's really hard out there.
Merlin:It is tough out there.
Merlin:I should never have... In this economy class?
Merlin:I should never have flown first class ever.
Merlin:Because I think, I mean, I've flown business a couple, a few times.
Merlin:Are you saying it ruined you?
Merlin:It ruined me.
Merlin:I...
Merlin:No, it's really, really gross.
Merlin:But after you've done that, you're like, oh, you get a nicer chair.
Merlin:And your legs can move.
Merlin:And you don't have, and also, you know what it is?
Merlin:I always said this, and this is very random.
Merlin:I've always said this about San Francisco Public Transit, and I don't know if anybody agrees, but, you know, we've got streetcars, which is the thing that goes by here.
Merlin:We've got buses.
Merlin:We've got all those kinds of things.
Merlin:People are always so much better.
Merlin:Thank you.
Merlin:You're doing great.
Merlin:Are you a Foley artist?
Merlin:Monk, monk.
Merlin:But people always behave themselves better on streetcars than on like if you're on.
Merlin:Well, I mean, even excluding like the 22 Fillmore, which is its own thing.
Merlin:But like where I used to go on the 19 Polk, which was quite an adventure to get to my lady's house on that bus.
Merlin:But people would always be pretty well.
Merlin:Maybe it's because we're out in, you know, a part of town where people keep to themselves and act like they're asleep when they're not.
Merlin:But, like, people are always better behaved.
Merlin:The thing is, people in first class, I mean, some of them are just fucking homemade assholes.
Merlin:A lot of them are very entitled.
Merlin:But it is quiet.
Merlin:You're not cheek to jowl.
Merlin:What I'm trying to say is it's one less thing to be chaotic about your trip.
Merlin:Like, it's like you, like, don't have to think about being jammed cheek to jowl next to somebody.
Merlin:Now, with that said, and this is my last thing I'm going to say about this.
Merlin:I flew first class one time.
Merlin:And so you get a big chair.
Merlin:There's just two chairs.
Merlin:And you get that big thing in the middle.
Merlin:And you can always be more comfortable is the problem.
Merlin:Or you can always want more things.
John:That's true what you say.
Merlin:It's, I think they call it the hedonic treadmill.
Merlin:Like, you can always, you always want more and better.
Merlin:But this guy next to me.
Merlin:That's what's ruined every one of my relationships.
John:The Hedonic treadmill.
John:Yeah, somebody wanted more and better.
John:Than you.
John:Or than me in my current state.
John:Oh, I'm sorry, I put that badly.
John:Than you right now.
John:Than me right now.
John:Than how you are.
John:Me plus 10%.
Merlin:Uh-huh.
Merlin:Okay.
Merlin:And I was like, what if I'm at full capacity?
Merlin:I think this guy was a lawyer.
Merlin:He had lawyer shoes.
Merlin:And I'll tell you how I know.
Merlin:So this is going to slightly date this story.
Merlin:But I'm on the window.
Merlin:He's on the aisle.
Merlin:You have this, seriously, like, I don't know, like Montana-sized area between the two of you to share.
Merlin:Yes.
Merlin:Yes, nice area.
Merlin:He's doing the whole thing.
Merlin:He's filling up the area with his stuff.
Merlin:All this I can handle because I have a nice big chair and he hasn't yet touched the edges of my perimeter.
Merlin:But here's the thing.
Merlin:And I don't know if you'll appreciate this because you're not like how I am.
John:He's picking up the area, though.
Merlin:Well, here's the thing.
Merlin:Because he got in my head in a different way.
Merlin:He had his iPod.
Merlin:and he had the iPod, of course, in the center console.
Merlin:Why would I want any of that?
Merlin:And he's got his iPod, and he's kind of playing it the way I do, where I think he's flipping through songs a little bit.
Merlin:So you have to jump in this loop.
Merlin:You can jump in this loop anywhere.
Merlin:But he goes to a new song,
Merlin:And he momentarily gets a little bit excited and clicks his shoes, his hard-soled lawyer shoe against like the edge of the chair or the bulkhead.
Merlin:But like the tuck, tuck, tuck, tuck, every time he changes songs.
Merlin:And I hear this tuck, tuck, tuck, tuck of like a man's shoe, like a nervous habit.
Merlin:And then a minute and a half goes by, hits another song, tuck, tuck, tuck, tuck, tuck.
Merlin:He's just mainlining dopamine from his iPod, and he's obviously not very comfortable in his skin.
Merlin:And, you know, that kind of passive aggression in a lawyer shouldn't surprise anyone.
Merlin:You've got lawyers in your family.
Merlin:You know what they're like with their iPods and their shoes.
John:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John:Think of their lawyer shoes.
John:I don't know, man.
John:Well, the problem with – I mean, we've talked about fart tubes full of long pigs a lot.
John:Yeah.
John:But when you think about it, you, as a person, the only –
John:One of the challenges is to go through life and maintain your dignity.
John:And you can work really hard.
Merlin:That is really a challenge.
Merlin:Yeah, you can work really hard.
Merlin:And can you maintain your dignity without trying to remove the dignity of others is like an even higher level of difficulty.
Exactly.
John:And there are places where it's very hard to maintain your dignity.
John:I think for a lot of people, their job is a place where their dignity is kind of like, there are a lot of people who maintain their dignity at their job and God bless them.
John:But there are people that have to work for somebody that's undermining them or in situations where they're just like, this is not...
John:And in my own case, I've reflected over the course of my adult life.
John:Do I have too much dignity?
John:Is this a situation where this isn't an assault on my dignity?
Merlin:Our backyard pilot in my backyard, you said some people would say that I have a surplus of dignity.
Merlin:That's what you said.
John:Too much, maybe.
John:I don't know.
John:But being on public transit or any kind of transit.
John:Sense of self.
John:Yeah, that's right.
Merlin:Sense of integrity and how one conducts oneself in the world.
John:Yeah, well, and you should be able to go through any day without somebody making you feel worse.
Merlin:I'm sorry, because of your own skills or because they're a good person?
John:Well, just because... Shouldn't let it get to you, maybe?
John:Well, this is one of the reasons that you don't go traveling on airplanes as much anymore.
John:Shit dog, no way.
John:I would rather stay at home because I feel fine than go out the door and have the possibility that somebody's going to throw a bag of shit on me.
Merlin:There's so much more convenient ways I could be stuck in a fart tube full of long pigs.
Merlin:There's so many other ways that I could be stuck with people I don't want to be with and uncomfortable for a very long time.
Merlin:I can do that here and still be home in time for Taskmaster.
John:Sure, I mean, you could go to a PTA meeting and have all that experience.
John:Call the cops.
John:Wait till we get through the land acknowledgement.
John:But for me, the idea that you can pay for dignity, right?
John:That there are tiers that you just have to put money on, and then you get dignity that's conferred to you just by virtue of the fact that you paid $700 for this ticket instead of five.
John:Right.
John:Is one of those things that's like...
John:Well, and you understand why people then on airplanes, like, get three drinks in themselves and they freak out because it's like, I paid $1,200 to not have anything.
Merlin:Or like they say to the sky waiter, what do you mean you're out of filet mignon?
John:Yeah, right, exactly.
Merlin:Just because I'm in seat, one, two, three, four, five, like I'm in seat like 4B, so like you didn't get to me in time.
John:I mean, one of the most embarrassing moments of my life.
Merlin:I was in New York City.
Merlin:All I want to say about what you said is, and this is a realization on my own, I think, and it might just be because I'm a bitter little man, but if you are a powerful person, you're probably a rich person.
Merlin:So the thing is, there's a lot of people who are powerful who get treated a little bit better anyway, and if they don't get treated the way they want, they usually do have an option.
Merlin:of money to do that.
Merlin:The part that's frustrating or galling to me, and I understand how that economy works, but, you know, it's like my ex used to say, you know, 17-year-old girls are not the ones who read 17 magazine.
Merlin:It's 13-year-old girls that read 17.
Merlin:You'll remember from your newsstand days, perhaps, there used to be a magazine in the 90s called Millionaire Magazine.
Merlin:And it's like nobody who has a million dollars has ever bought Millionaire Magazine.
Merlin:It's all completely...
Merlin:Not speculative, but what's the word I'm looking for?
Merlin:Aspirational.
Merlin:Aspirational, exactly.
Merlin:It's the Rob Report.
Merlin:Oh, yeah.
Merlin:I like to read the Kelly Blue Book, personally.
Merlin:even though i don't know anything to use but no no the part that strikes me though is that like you aren't somebody with power and you're somebody with even just like a little bit of money that's how they get you is that you get to have this this could be god just i know you're not a huge like disney follower but like if you look at what's happened at the disney parks in the last few years the changes they've made are all the different levels it's way more than that and
Merlin:It's stuff like, there's all kinds of stuff where you take something like John Syracuse and when he and his family would go to Disney World, they would work through a person.
Merlin:His wife would like work with a Disney, you know, not necessarily an employee, but somebody who helps you book a good Disney trip.
Merlin:Cause it is kind of a needle to thread.
Merlin:If you're coming from Massachusetts,
Merlin:to Orlando with four people.
Merlin:And you want to, like, it's a very costly event.
Merlin:It makes sense the same way you want to schedule what luau you're going to in Maui or whatever, right?
Merlin:Right, right.
Merlin:And so, but it would do all that ahead of time.
Merlin:And there's certain kinds of things where John would be like, you know, without any, like, you know, embarrassment or anything.
Merlin:Like, hey, there's this really cool thing where you can give them a certain amount of money and everywhere you go, people are taking photos of you.
Merlin:There's like people who wander around and take photos.
Merlin:Yeah, so you can basically get pseudo-professional photos of your trip
Merlin:included anyways there's all these things where for a while there was this period where like yeah you could do that and you could upgrade to this nicer room at the blah blah it's just that now almost everything is like that and you can whereas like i felt weird buying the nice pass at universal 10 years ago like now you can like just skip everything like like you you get to be king ralph and just like run everything at the park if you've got enough money and
Merlin:Which, unfortunately, then conversely, and I don't want to make this a bummer, conversely means that if you've already spent the however many hundreds of dollars for that day in the park, now there's all these other things that you have to pay for to get the same experience in the same amount of time.
Merlin:If it's a busy day and you want to ride on a really popular ride, you might spend three hours waiting for that, whereas somebody else got to pay, and now their day has become more valuable.
Merlin:you never have enough money to become powerful.
Merlin:Really?
Merlin:Unless you're powerful.
Merlin:I mean, that sounds stupid, but you know what I mean?
Merlin:Like you can, if you're like me and you're like a poor kid, by which I just mean like, you know, we would tend to get the economy option for pretty much everything my entire life.
Merlin:And I'm putting that very mildly.
Merlin:We just didn't spend a lot.
Merlin:We didn't do things where the family flew somewhere on vacation.
Merlin:Everybody flew first class.
Merlin:Now we drove to Florida in 1969.
Merlin:Anyhow, and these are the values of families.
John:I mean, this is a conversation I had with Ken.
John:It's part of the trip.
John:America's Sweetheart the other day where I was like, well, now you're a millionaire and you guys fly to England all the time.
John:It's going to be nice to fly first class to England.
John:And he said, are you kidding me?
John:Do you know how much those tickets are?
John:and i said uh well yeah i do they're several several thousand dollars and he was like i'm not gonna pay that for a airplane ticket see because you know what buying the upgrade is new money that's some new money shit usually you get your company to pay for it because you're an important salary man i said you're a lifestyle manager you're earning 10x what you were earning or what or your 100x of what i'll ever earn you can't buy a and you fly all the time and he was like are you kidding me i
John:would never pay that much.
Merlin:I got flown first class to New Zealand and it was incredible.
John:What, you flew first class to New Zealand?
Merlin:Yeah, I did a talk there and one of the- Is this when you or Merlin me?
Merlin:Yeah, the talk where I cried.
Merlin:I persuaded them, they were very kind to do this.
Merlin:I was like, yeah, I'm bringing my family, we're gonna be there for two weeks.
Merlin:and i don't i don't remember if they paid for all of them but it was kind of like well you know i would take less money or whatever anyway the way it worked out was great and like um if you're gonna be on a 15 hour flight wow yeah what yeah and especially if it's british airways or or new zealand new zealand they know how to do it yeah or alaska back in the day remember how good alaska was
John:Yeah, it was a nice airline.
John:I miss JetBlue also.
John:But, you know, the time that this came to a head for me, it was kind of a...
John:So there was this seminal moment and by seminal, I mean covered with semen.
John:Yeah.
John:I got the opportunity at the, at the arguably the peak of the long winters public profile.
John:I got asked by your good friend, San Francisco author Dave Eggers to fly to New York city, a city in America and to be part of a benefit show for his eight to six Valencia organization.
John:Yep.
John:And it was a show at the Beacon Theater, an enormous and legendary theater in New York City.
John:And I think I've talked about this show before.
John:David Byrne was on the bill.
John:Sufjan Stevens.
John:Eric Boghossian.
John:Sarah Vowell.
Merlin:I love Eric Boghossian.
John:He was hilarious, and I didn't realize he was going to be there.
John:And then there he was.
John:Jon Stewart.
John:Wow.
John:All these people.
John:And I was the...
John:The least notable person on the bill.
John:Did you say you brought the least notoriety?
John:I brought the least notoriety.
John:But I was notable enough at that moment in my life to be on this bill with these people.
John:And I was being flown there by legendary nice guy, Dave Eggers.
John:And this was the show.
John:I'm sitting in my dressing room and I poked my head out and there's Jon Stewart.
John:And he's like, hey man.
John:And I'm like, ah.
John:And then I'm like, well, I can't.
John:deal with this and i walked into the next little room and there was you know uh there was david burn and i was like look i just need a place that's too much that's just too much yeah i just need a place that i can stand where i'm not trying to make small talk with some legendary figure we don't get that yeah yeah it's heavy and i'm and so i walk over to this little nebbishy looking dude
John:And I'm like, hey, what brought you here?
John:And he's like, oh, well, you know, I'm kind of like hosting the show.
John:And I thought, oh, well, this Nebuchadnezzar guy is like some 826 Valencia hanger on.
John:And so I'm like, I love this.
John:Here's a guy I can talk to.
John:Some 826 Valencia, you know, book burner.
John:And he's funny.
John:And so we sit and we chat.
John:Yeah, and he probably likes cool stuff.
John:He likes cool stuff, right?
John:He's like the regular.
Merlin:And I'm feeling like, well, I'm- Didn't Dave Eggers do Mike?
John:That was him, right?
John:Did he do Mike Magazine?
John:Didn't Dave Eggers do Mike Magazine?
John:Yeah.
John:Oh, no, that was the Beastie Boys.
John:Wasn't the Mike Magazine?
John:No, they did Grand Royal.
John:Grand Royal magazine did Well, I'll find out continue.
Merlin:I know exactly what you mean.
John:So you're sitting with the nevish I'm sitting with sitting with the nevish and we're laughing We're having a good old time and then his buddy comes over this like a beard Oh kind of guy with the you know, like a like he's got a beard to kind of hide a Chin that may or may not be like the most Chad chin and John Hodgman
John:Well, this guy with the beard?
John:No, Hodgman never had a beard.
John:Oh, no, he did.
John:He's making fun of his chin.
John:He's got a beard now.
John:I made a chin joke.
John:You did.
John:You gave him a little chin music.
John:Well, so then we do the show, and I go out, and I'm the opener, right?
John:I go out on the stage, and here's this, and the Beacon Theater is designed to look like an Egyptian temple.
John:And I walk out and here's a collection of extremely erudite New Yorkers.
John:And I said, this room was made for people to project their voices without microphones.
John:And so I stood in the center of the stage with no microphone and I played Commander Thinks Aloud.
John:And I did it well.
Merlin:You know, sort of like... That must have felt... Because didn't it feel... It must have felt like... Did you know you were going to do it when you went up?
John:No.
John:I just got out there and I was like, oh, wait a minute.
Merlin:Like, I don't need to... That is very intimate.
Merlin:That is so cool.
John:I'm the only one here that isn't somebody who's...
John:And then David Byrne came out and did Psycho Killer Acapella.
John:Exactly.
John:Just like, oh, I can do that, except better.
John:No, it's funny.
John:That was the night that David Byrne and Sufjan Stevens were both arguing who would go on before the other one.
John:Oh, I love hearing that.
John:But David Byrne was doing that thing where he's like, oh, you know, I'm like so passe and Sufjan is like the big deal at the moment.
John:Yeah.
John:He should get back on cocaine.
John:He was a lot more interesting when he did cocaine.
John:But everybody else was like, you're David Byrne.
John:Yeah, you go ahead.
John:Stop doing this.
John:Don't make it weird.
John:And then the host guy goes out and he's extremely funny and his friend with the beard is wearing a coonskin cap and he goes out and plays guitar while the other guy is making jokes.
John:Long story short.
John:Wait a minute.
John:The host was Hodgman and the guy with the hat was Colton.
Merlin:And this was the time I met them.
Merlin:That's the first time I went.
Merlin:I'm sorry.
Merlin:I didn't mean to blow up your story because I had no idea that was John Hodgman.
Merlin:I went to see, because I love the areas of my expertise.
Merlin:And I think it can be argued that the audio book of the areas of my expertise is one of the greatest audio books of all time.
Merlin:It's hilarious.
Merlin:Have you ever heard what goes into it?
Merlin:Like, it's so goddamn funny.
Merlin:Jonathan, were you playing that song very loud or with extra large hands?
Merlin:It's, oh my God.
Merlin:And he was, this is my, I met him in the woods outside of Yale University.
Merlin:This is my, what do you call him?
Merlin:It's like his feral...
Merlin:his feral woodsman friend yeah but he dressed he looked like uh you know now is the time for the it's a great song too that the theme song from that i'm sorry i blew up your story that's so fucking cool so you sat with the nebbish i sat with the nebbish and i thought he was like some bookish guy which he was but he was he's fine to talk to
John:Well, and that was the thing.
John:Hodgman was just about to be on the Apple ads.
John:I think the Apple ads started airing a couple of, maybe a month later.
John:And Colton had just put out his cover of Baby Got Back or whatever.
John:Made him famous.
John:So neither of these guys were famous.
John:You met him on the cusp?
John:Yeah, they were just bookish nebbishes, but enough in that world that they were doing this.
Merlin:And their shows were weird.
Merlin:The shows they did in New York before they started really taking on the road were very, if you listen to old shows they did, they're very strange.
Merlin:When he was mainly presenting himself as a, what was his phrase, retired literary agent?
John:right before he became the world's smartest boy or whatever right but so so the whole point of the story is dave eggers put me up at the mandarin oriental hotel which is just a block from central park and at the end of the ching chong stay for the bing bong that's that's right on the right above the door
John:At the end of the night, we all go to this bar.
John:We're sitting in the back of this bar, and St.
John:Vincent is there.
John:Of course, because of David Byrne.
John:David Byrne met St.
John:Vincent that night.
John:What?
John:She was playing with Sufjan.
John:I'm attracted to her in every conceivable way.
John:And she was amazing then, and she's amazing now.
John:Is she cool?
John:I bet she's cool.
John:I bet she's sharp as hell.
John:She's very cool.
John:What's her name?
John:Annie?
John:Annie.
John:Okay.
John:And we're all in this bar and I'm just, it's another one of these things.
John:I would be squirting my drawers at this event.
John:There's only 60 people there and every one of them is this legendary figure.
John:And I'm sort of like, and I was a little uncomfortable at the bar and I actually did the thing.
John:where i said to hodgman again with no sense of who he would become or who maybe he even was at the time but he was the one guy that i like thought was hilarious yes and that we had just had such a good night and i said hey man we should exchange numbers and he was sitting at a table with sarah vowel and and he gave me a brief just brief just a just a flash
John:of a look of cringe.
Merlin:Here comes, this guy is good at boundaries.
John:Yeah, and he was like, ugh.
Merlin:And then he said, okay.
Merlin:Did you break a rule, do you think?
Merlin:Do you think you broke a compact?
John:I think it was some kind of New York thing where it was like, but okay.
John:And we exchanged numbers, but as soon as I saw the look on his face, I was like, I'm never gonna call this dude.
John:And he's never gonna call me, so that was all a waste, you know?
John:But so we exchanged numbers and I was like, okay, well, I don't know where to stand in this bar.
John:And Hodgman and Colton were the only people I felt like even remotely comfortable sitting and chatting with.
John:So I guess I'm gonna leave, you know?
John:And I go out and David Byrne is like leaning over Annie and just kind of like a little bit like,
John:a little sus to me at the moment.
John:And I'm like, was she wearing shiny clothes?
John:She was just, well, she was dressed like a Sufjan band member.
John:So they all dressed like they were in some Jesus cult.
John:But so I walked through New York and I'm like, well, that was an amazing night.
John:And what a crazy life this is.
John:And it's beautiful.
John:It's late at night.
John:And I get back to the Mandarin Oriental and I walk in this beautiful hotel and I'd already been to the room and it was one of these rooms that you could basically live there.
John:I could have moved there.
John:You know, it was big enough that I could have lived in my hotel.
John:Like Royal Tenenbaum.
John:And I go up to my room and I have my key card and I go bleep and it is red.
John:And I go bleep and it was red.
John:And I'm like... And I feel... Oh, no.
John:Wait, was this your first time entering the room?
John:No, I had seen the room earlier in the day.
John:I'd been in.
John:It had all worked fine.
John:My bags were in there.
John:Oh, my God, no.
John:And so I go down in the elevator and I go to the front desk.
John:And I said, my key card's not working.
John:And the man behind the desk said...
John:Oh, you needed to put a credit card on to manage your incident.
John:Yeah.
John:And I said, what?
John:It's three o'clock in the morning and I just want to go to bed and you've locked me out of my room because I didn't put a credit card down for my incidentals.
Merlin:Yeah.
Yeah.
Merlin:I was just like, I'm not going to clear out the mini bar.
Merlin:Trust me.
John:Yeah.
John:Like, and also this thing is being paid for by somebody else.
John:I'm a honored guest who obviously isn't like, I'm not David Byrne, but I don't think, I mean, I, I had this reaction where I felt like, am I, am I just like somebody you think is gonna be like, you couldn't wait to do this in the morning.
John:Like it's 3am.
John:There's too much noise.
John:That's not classy.
John:And the guy says, you know, well, and so I give him the card and I get the key and I go up the elevator again and I bleep it and it's red.
John:And now I'm like,
John:I don't know what happens.
John:I, and I, I'm out of my mind now and I go down and the guy is gone and there's a woman at the front desk who is from Russia and she's a middle-aged woman.
John:She's got black hair, jet black hair, but you can just tell she's from Russia.
John:There's a kind of like back then, especially like this woman is, has made it here from Russia.
John:And I'm mad.
John:I'm here and trying to go to sleep and you in this fancy hotel with all of this and you're the five star place and you just can't get me in my room.
John:You guys can't just get me in my room and let me sleep and lay down.
John:And am I just some kind of, you know, and she's at first tries to like manage me and
John:But after I rant, and it's not for very long, but after I rant a little too long, she says, yes, sir, I'm sorry, sir.
John:And I said, well, it's something, something, something.
John:And she says, yes, sir, I'm sorry, sir.
John:And I suddenly am shocked that she has gone into a mode.
John:She's clicked into a mode of dealing with.
Merlin:You just yelled at a middle-aged Russian woman enough that she did something she wasn't supposed to do, maybe because you scared her a little.
John:Yeah.
John:And, and she was now in hospitality, uh, damage control mode.
John:Yeah.
John:Right.
John:Where she'd been taught at a certain point with a rich person who's screaming at you about, and I wasn't screaming, but a rich person who's down at the front desk yelling about the mini bar or whatever, just say, yes, sir.
John:Sorry, sir.
John:And make sure that whatever it is they, you know, like,
John:and i saw her as somebody who was just here this was her job and i'm yelling about some inconsequential my fucking key card doesn't work because i was i was in dignity emergency mode already on my own problem yeah yeah yeah and now i'm like being i've got too much dignity and it's her problem
John:And I just felt so ridiculous and so embarrassed.
John:Did it happen pretty quickly?
John:She flipped and then you caught it.
John:Yeah.
John:She said, yes, sir.
John:Sorry, sir.
John:Two times.
John:And then I was like, oh my God.
John:Oh my God.
John:How did this happen?
John:And how am I here?
Merlin:You have one of those moments where you're like, I mean, I feel like increasingly people don't ask themselves this, but sometimes you find yourself going, ah, this is never who I wanted to be.
John:No, no, exactly.
Merlin:This is like, you know, not the opposite of who I wanted to be, but this is really, I mean, if I had five of these, I would not think I'm a very good person.
John:And it all dovetailed with the fact that at this moment in long winter's times, I was starting to get treated like a special guy and people were flying me places.
John:And, you know, and I was on this show and I had other shows.
John:I was doing a show the next night in Chicago with an equally lustrous Chicago group.
John:of like famouses there.
John:And I had arrived in a way, I would had arrived at the anteroom of fame.
John:And now I'm shouting at this poor middle-aged Russian woman who is just working the desk, the night shift at the Mandarin Oriental.
John:Enough that she says, yes, sir, sorry, sir.
John:And I went up to my room, just dragon tail, just like, oh God, is this really?
John:What it is?
Merlin:But you're still feeling, as much as you've chastened, I'm projecting here when I say this, as much as you're chastened by that experience and maybe a little ashamed, you're also still burning off the adrenaline from being mad earlier.
Merlin:Yeah.
Merlin:I mean, that can't be discounted.
Merlin:It's like, we don't just change from one emotion to another and then stop having the other.
Merlin:The emotions that stick with us will keep having an effect even if we switch to another emotion sometimes.
John:And I think the difference between me now and me, because I was almost 40 at that point too.
John:And there's that I'm almost 40 and I'm still down here, like giving you my credit card for my, for my mini bar, like Eric Boghossian isn't down here, but probably Eric Boghossian is, you know, probably David Byrne goes up and I don't know his, he's probably got some handler that makes sure the keys work, but yeah.
John:The difference between me and Ben.
John:He's got a key wrangler.
John:He's got somebody with like a headset microphone who's like, Mr. Byrne, right this way.
John:He doesn't have to go down and pay for the minibar.
John:But...
John:The difference between me then and now is that at the time after her second, yes, sir.
John:Sorry, sir.
John:I said, okay, good then, you know, and I was already embarrassed, but like you say, I didn't know how to come down off of the adrenaline.
John:Yeah.
John:Yeah.
John:Yeah.
John:And it wasn't until I got up to the room that I was like, oh my God, fuck.
John:Even though I was thinking it I just I couldn't yeah, but now if I Settling into the more rational it's gone from that emotional to like the irrational part of your brain We were like, oh, but but in the intervening 15 years I now if I ever
John:I'm like, what the hell is this supposed to be?
John:And somebody says, yes, sir.
John:Sorry, sir.
John:I go, hey, wait, wait, wait, wait.
John:I'm so sorry that I just went there and I apologize to you profusely in this moment.
John:Like I can come back so fast now.
John:Yeah.
John:Huh.
John:That I couldn't do when I was 40.
John:Well, that's, I think what aging is, right?
John:I mean, you think.
John:Our testosterone goes down and I think that's good.
Merlin:Maybe it's that.
Merlin:I think it's really good.
Merlin:I think we all had enough.
Merlin:We had a fun time with testosterone.
Merlin:It took us to some unexpected places in unexpected ways.
John:That's right.
Merlin:I made it all the way to Istanbul.
Merlin:That's true.
Merlin:But let it taper.
Merlin:That's what I say.
Merlin:Let it taper.
John:I think it's also just like, how many times do I have to sit in a room and be embarrassed about the way I acted to be able to at least...
John:see that it's time to jump in front of that.
John:But also my daughter has taught me because she sees right through me.
John:She's the only person in the world that can look at me when I'm straight faced and just see what's going on.
John:And she has that thing where she walks over and puts her hand gently on me and says, Dad.
John:And she can see when I'm mad and she can see when I'm sad.
Merlin:Regardless of what shape you're throwing, what face you're putting on, that she can see what's happening under the surface, sort of.
John:And when she puts her hand on me and says, Dad, it can alternately mean you need to leave because you're about to tell this guy he's parking his car wrong.
Merlin:You're about to tell him you had a song on the OC.
John:She also puts her hand on there and she goes, Dad, I know that you are not doing well in this moment.
John:What we should do is just sit and listen to the birds sing or whatever it is, you know, so she managed me and manages me and seeing her do it.
John:I'm it's the first time in my life.
Merlin:I've been like, you think you're out of ways to be embarrassed.
Merlin:There's always new ways to feel humiliated about how we are.
John:Except with her she's the one that never embarrasses me.
Merlin:She's not she's trying to this is all very quiet You can read you can reuse that in the future like you that's a new feeling That's a new habit you can build is that hand that hand telling you Yeah, yeah, it's almost the because I've always said like
John:haven't actually said this to her but i've thought like if i die which i surely will one day yeah but if i died prematurely and she missed me in the same way that when i miss my dad i think what would dad say in this moment and i know i know exactly what he would say what would he say he would say god damn it what the fuck
John:And she knows what I would say.
Merlin:And so I'm making a peace sign like Sammy Sosa.
Merlin:I'm making a peace sign with my fingers, kissing my fingers and then looking up and pointing to your father in the sky.
John:How did he get in here?
John:I know she knows what I would say.
Merlin:Yeah.
John:But now when I'm out in the world, I know what she would say.
John:And I'm like, shh, shh, shh.
John:If Marla was here, she would tell me to shut the fuck up and sit down.
John:Yes, yes, yes.
John:Leave it is exactly right.
John:Leave it.
John:Dad, his dog is not going to get off the table.
John:There's nothing you can say or do.
Merlin:So she's, I mean, in addition to being like a swell growing up kid, she's also got a role now in helping you, I mean, maybe helping the world with emotional regulation.
Right.
Merlin:A little bit.
Merlin:And finding a little bit of expansiveness, a little bit of distance from the feeling.
John:Yeah, right.
John:It's all part of the education.
John:And also you don't want to look like a dick in front of your kid.
John:Well, you know.
Merlin:I've done that.
Merlin:That ship has sailed.
Merlin:Oh, brother.
Merlin:Come on.
Merlin:Google me, I said one time.
John:Oh, Google me.
John:I said Google me.
John:I said that at a ski lodge.
John:Can you believe that?
John:Did you say that in order to like put the final word on an argument or a disagreement?
Merlin:Well, I was not at all pleased with the way that I was being treated.
Merlin:I see.
Merlin:Nor my family.
Merlin:And luckily they were there to see it, which was great.
Merlin:Yeah.
Merlin:When I said Google me to the person.
John:I don't know if they did.
John:Do you know what my clout score is?
John:Unmetered clout.
John:Clout off the scale.