Ep. 133: "Secret Pope Songs"
this episode of roderick on the line is sponsored by cards against humanity to people working on the cards against humanity holiday puzzle they wanted me to ask who are you and what do you do and for the rest of you hey just enjoy the show hello hi john hi merlin how's it going
Pretty good.
Pretty good.
Pretty darn good.
Pretty good.
Fair to Midland.
Pretty, pretty, pretty good.
You sound good.
You sound like you're on the mend.
It's really hard to say.
You know, I woke up this morning.
Oh, no, no, no, no.
And I needed to brush my teeth.
Oh, no, no, no, no.
And then I had a...
Couldn't tell whether I was sick or not.
So that's where I'm at.
I'm having some coffee.
I'm coming alive.
I've been talking to friends.
Have I mentioned this already?
I've been talking to a lot of friends.
They all get up at 7 o'clock in the morning.
It just doesn't matter, of course.
That's when they get up.
It's just 7 o'clock in the morning, and they talk about it like, you know, so I've been polling people.
It's an informal poll.
Yeah, what time do you get up in the morning?
Me?
Oh.
Yeah, no, I'm asking you now.
What time do you get up in the morning?
I wake from sleep, whether I like it or not, at 6 or a little before, because that's when my daughter wakes up.
Well, my wife...
blessedly, lets me sleep a little later most days, unless it's my drop-off day.
But left on my own devices, I think I would wake up at 7 or 7.30.
Woo!
See?
See?
People talk about this like this is normal behavior.
Are you also polling them regarding their go-to-bed time?
Yeah.
I mean, everybody seems to go to bed at 11.
I was in a cafe today, and there were a couple of people sitting across the table from one another.
There was a guy, sort of indeterminate age, probably about 50, and a woman about 35, maybe.
And they both had their day planners out.
And she was saying, well, what about, you know, like 3.30, we get the ball rolling.
And he's like, great, that works for me.
And he writes it down in his day planner and she writes it down in her day planner.
And I was like, wow, yes, people are fucking getting shit done.
They're having efficient meetings and they're deciding to accomplish things.
Look at it, it's 3.30, they're going to get the ball rolling on a date in their calendar.
And I bet you both of them got up at 7 o'clock in the morning.
Yeah, that's the kind of thing people who get up at 7 in the morning do is right in a day timer.
So for me, at 9.15, hitting the snooze button again, here's how I get out of bed.
I've been waiting for this for years.
Yeah, I wake up, I throw the covers off, I sit up,
I recognize that the day is there and then I grab the covers back and I pull them back over my head and I die.
I go back under the burrow under the pillows and hope that some through some magic time will stop.
I can sleep forever and then wake up finally fully refreshed and ready to begin what will be the ultimate day.
which is the after forever day.
After forever.
Then there will be an ultimate day.
And that's how I start every single day.
You're like a very masculine Belle and Sebastian song.
It does not happen at 7 in the morning.
But I was riding in a cab the other day around 7 o'clock in the morning.
And all the people are out.
There are people running.
I was in New York.
There were people fishing.
People fishing at 7 in the morning.
They didn't get up at 7.
They got up at 6 or 5.
You got to have your equipment ready.
You got to get your night crawlers.
Yeah.
So that's how I'm doing.
I'm thinking a lot about 7 o'clock in the morning right now.
And I'm thinking about it like it's a brand new thought technology.
It's burning.
It's searing its brand into the haunches of my mind.
7 a.m.
You know what I like about you, John Roderick, is your interest in infrastructure.
It seems to me that a lot of your thought technologies involve many levels of infrastructure, personal, public, social, municipal.
You're very interested in how this stuff should operate.
Am I wrong?
No, that's absolutely true.
of an old thought technology, the small bag.
I've been thinking a lot about the small bag and what the small bag represents.
Oh my gosh, there's a lot to the small bag.
There is a lot to the small bag, and you know, part of my trying to stay organized and trying to keep my life together involves a process of trying to figure out what I need to eliminate.
Right?
You look around and you're like, ah, I got, you know.
Yeah, most people out there are thinking, how do I, A, get a bigger bag so that I can, B, add more stuff to it.
You're saying, no, how do I make this smaller?
How do I make this the perfect, the ultimate small bag?
Right, but I'm starting to think holistically across my entire life.
The question is not, what do I get rid of to fit into a small bag?
The question is,
What do I absolutely need?
And everything else is just in the bin.
And the thing is, if you can start answering that question, a lot of the rest of your life starts making a lot more sense.
But the problem is, where does my belt buckle collection fit into that?
That's a really good question.
Right?
I found a big tray, a big wooden tray that had dividers in it.
It had probably been used as a type setter's tray.
Oh, nice.
And the little dividers were perfectly sized for belt buckles.
And I realized I have 30 belt buckles.
Now, I don't always wear a belt with a buckle.
And when I do, I kind of generally stick to the old classics, the Indian Arrowhead, the cover art from Appetite for Destruction.
Then there's the one that says John.
Oh, that's nice.
When you become a character in a comic book, I would like to see a really large belt buckle that just says, big brass belt buckle that just says John.
I have that one.
I have a big brass belt buckle that just says John, and I wear it.
But, you know, I also have...
a couple of scrimshaw belt buckles.
For more formal affairs?
Mm-hmm.
I have belt buckles that are enameled.
I have an Indian head enameled belt buckle that is the size of a rodeo winner's belt buckle, but it's, like, enameled in six different colors.
Indian, like, with a head dress?
Yeah, it looks like an Indian... It looks like a cigar store Indian, except it's the size of a pie plate, and it's a belt buckle.
I don't know.
People used to...
live a different life i actually have a radio a rodeo uh style um you know texacano belt buckle polished silver plated belt buckle with a giant r on it and let's be clear there was a time when uh if you want a rodeo you got a belt buckle
Oh, yeah.
Isn't that right?
I just want to clarify for our listeners, not everybody's as steeped in the Western tradition as you are.
Yeah, a belt buckle is the way that you wear your trophy if you are a rodeo victor.
And one time... They'll give you one if you lose.
Well, maybe you get a third place
Belt buckle.
It looks like shit and doesn't work very well.
You wear the ribbon that you earn, right?
If you earn a white ribbon, you wear the white ribbon.
Yes.
So I was in a bar one time in the Southwest and the waiter...
was this kid who had a giant rodeo belt buckle.
And I started talking to him, and he was like, oh, yeah, I'm a rodeo champ.
And I had this flash of realization that just like being kind of a rock and roll star, being a rodeo champ doesn't mean that you don't also sometimes have to work as a waiter.
And he was wearing these Wrangler's
I've gone back and forth with Wranglers over the years.
And by back and forth, I mean five times in my life I have purchased, somehow I've acquired a pair of Wranglers.
And I've thought, I'm going to wear Wranglers.
Wranglers are going to be my new thing.
And then they put Wranglers on, and they're just made for somebody else.
It's 100% true.
I think, yeah, Wranglers for me are kind of like going vegan, where it's not to say it has never crossed my mind, but as soon as I spend any time with it, I realize it's not for me.
Jonathan Richman has a whole song about jeans and how they fit differently.
My jeans, they are a friend.
And there are Lee people.
They still make Lee jeans, right?
Yeah, they do.
Yes, they do.
I mean, I don't know that they have the brand awareness that they used to have.
But there are different body types.
And I think ladies are very aware of this.
Men, we don't care how they fit.
We just put them on.
Unless you're, you know, artisanal like we are.
But no, I think it makes a huge difference.
Now, the Wranglers, they ride a little higher.
Yeah, they're high rise.
And I feel like Lee jeans are what you wear if you are a long distance truck driver.
Okay.
But Wrangler jeans...
I don't know.
You have to be made out of sticks to wear Wranglers.
But this kid, this rodeo guy, was wearing Wrangler jeans, and he was just made to wear Wrangler jeans.
And he looked so fantastic in these Wrangler jeans with this giant rodeo belt buckle that I actually went out and bought another.
This was the last time I tried Wranglers.
I went out and bought another pair of Wranglers just in homage to this guy.
Mm-hmm.
And then I put them on and I just looked like somebody had tried to cover a crime scene in denim.
Yeah.
See, I feel like you're deliberately posing a little bit of a trick question to me.
Because in my understanding of the small bag...
This is not purely a super train thing.
It's a go bag for any situation.
Think about what's in the lockbox in Switzerland, right, for Matt Damon.
You got that kind of go bag stuff, right?
Right, right, right, right, right.
You could think about it in terms of passports and weapons and money.
Right.
There's the other kind of go bag, which is, you know, like if you have a hurricane, if you have a natural disaster, do you have a bag packed that is ready and up to date that you can grab and without even having to look in it?
I think this is very important to the small bag.
Know that everything you will, not everything you'll need, just the most essential stuff you'll need.
Here's the last part.
You got to be able to carry it.
It's not a small bag if you can't carry it for, what, 10 miles?
I mean, if it's a roller bag, sorry.
You don't know.
You might be in a desert and need that small bag.
Well, but here are the things.
Here are some of the factors, right?
You don't want to put everything in the bag.
Like I say this to people all the time.
You know what?
They sell shampoo in Europe.
So you don't have to bring it, right?
They have toilet paper where you're going.
You don't have to pack it.
Unless you're going someplace where they don't have toilet paper.
It's a different small bag.
Everybody's small bag is different.
You should know.
You should know.
And frankly, I always carry toilet paper.
Yeah.
But, you know.
That's just experience.
I don't want to give too much away.
You can stuff some Imodium into that empty space.
Again, with a small bag, as always with packing, use all the available space.
Put things into the hole of the tube.
That's right.
Put things into the hole of the tube.
That's exactly right.
But also, do you bring what you need or do you bring the tools to acquire what you need when you get there?
Right?
In a lot of ways, the smallest bag is an American Express black card.
Unless the grid's down.
Unless the grid is down.
Exactly.
You can't wear one of those.
In that case, the smallest bag is a buck knife.
Right?
Like, there are small bags that have a buck knife in them, and there are small bags that do not.
What about, like, a Leatherman?
Well, you know, a Leatherman... I don't mean the Gentleman in the Castro.
I mean some kind of a multi-tool, like a lightweight multi-tool.
I go back and forth on multi-tools because, in a way, it seems like...
Jack of all trades, master of none.
You got a leather man there, and it's not, you can't really, it's not really nice.
If you want one that's actually useful, it's going to be heavy.
Yeah.
The other ones are mostly like a cute thing you keep in your briefcase, so now you got a bottle opener.
That's what I have.
I have a couple or three full-size, like, fancy Leatherman knives or tools, and they're real heavy.
I mean, I don't notice when there's an iPad in my backpack, but I notice when there's a Leatherman in my backpack.
Yeah, I have a Swiss Army knife that was made a long time ago that has, in addition to all of the things that would...
That you would say were on a Swiss Army knife to make somebody laugh.
Yeah.
It also has a magnifying glass, a fire starting kit, an airplane signaler, a... Meaning a mirror?
Well, a mirror with a hole in the middle of it so you can...
Look across a great distance.
You can also hack that into a pinhole camera.
Right.
Or you could start a fire with it.
Or you can make a camera obscura.
I mean, you have to have a way to be entertained later on.
So I have one of these things, but it's the size of a 16-ounce can of beer.
And ultimately, yeah, I guess if I fell out of an airplane and that thing was in my coat,
I could make it back to civilization with the tools at my disposal, but I'm not sure that that would be the first – that would be my go-to kit.
Yeah, I feel like that's heavy and bulky for what you get.
I have like an executive-sized Swiss Army knife that has a pen built into it.
Oh, a pen.
That's nice.
That's for executives.
That's an executive knife.
Yeah.
But no, I think you're absolutely right, though.
I mean, I think there has to be some clothing, lightweight, warm clothing probably for most people.
Don't you think?
Yeah.
Lightweight clothing that you can wash out in the sink.
But I'm talking about something.
I'm talking about a larger philosophical.
A more profound small bag.
A more profound small bag.
That's right.
Which is to say, like, I have the small bag that I grab when the electromagnetic pulse turns off all the microwaves.
Yeah.
But there's another small bag, a small bag that I want to inhabit.
A small bag where instead of five white shirts that all are a half size too small in the neck, I have one white shirt that is the correct size.
And that is... Oh, quality.
Quality.
You're talking about an essential?
Here's the thing.
This goes back to me.
I've told you about our stupid, not hurricane, earthquake kit.
Because one year, did I ever tell you this?
Yeah, I told you this.
We got smart one year, and we're finally like, it takes an earthquake to make you go, okay, we really need to get an earthquake kit.
And we went totally balls out.
We bought a really nice garbage can.
It starts with a nice garbage can.
Because the thing is, with the earthquake kit, don't have it in your house.
Because you know what happens?
Your house falls down.
Now you don't have an earthquake kit.
Wow.
You have to have a waterproof, a very, like, raccoon-proof, as much as there can be such a thing.
And you put in there enough supplies.
You put it up in a tree.
You put it up in a tree, right?
Right.
And you've got to have a tree that's earthquake-proof, too.
Right.
It's a complicated maneuver.
But you get – obviously, you get enough – the basic idea is to have enough stuff for however many people are in your family to be able to be completely –
off the grid, and screwed for three days.
Wow.
Sounds like you need a lake house.
Oh, that would be nice.
Yeah, isn't that nice?
Well, some lakes near here.
Anyway, you fill this with water, you put in energy bars, basically all the shit you would never want to eat when you're at home.
or the stuff you donate to charity, you end up putting into this thing.
Now, here's the thing.
You put it in there.
We did this, and we forgot about it, right?
Hey, we're settled.
And then, of course, you go out and look at it, and maybe the lid got off a little bit, and it's kind of moldy inside now.
And raccoons.
Raccoons, and all the water expires, because you know what, John?
Water expires.
Oh, it sure does.
And so that's the thing about what I'm trying to bring to this, and as much as I can, is that you don't pack a small bag once.
You're constantly packing a small bag, even if it's just in your head.
Yes.
Don't you think that's part of the philosophical component?
Because you can sit around and say, like, oh, I've got to put the silverware and the pistol in here.
But, like, no, but, like, what do you need now?
Yeah, you're cycling.
A small bag is an alive thing.
Yes.
A small bag is not a static animal.
It's an evolving...
Yes, right, a creature, a friend.
Because, like, you think about, like, well, okay, in that case, in that one, you know what we had in there?
A bunch of extremely tiny diapers.
And by the time it was moldy, our kid didn't wear diapers anymore.
So we had not kept up.
And if it had happened in the interregnum, we would have had a kid wearing some really super tiny diapers.
Right.
Because we didn't treat it like a living thing.
Well, and yes, and honestly, people have these organization strategies like, well, turn it backwards on the hanger and put a pin in the neck, and if you don't wear it in six months, in six months you go through and you take all the things on backwards hangers out.
Those people have day planners and get up at seven in the morning or earlier.
I try to touch every single thing
in my house at least once in the course of a day and a half, including the guests.
I just, I go through and I just, I'm putting my fingers on everything all the time.
Just paw everything.
Are you still here?
Are you still here?
Are you still here?
You're where I left you.
That's right.
You done good book.
Are you okay?
Are you okay?
Like shoes?
Are you all right?
Are you okay?
The shoes I'm wearing today, my sister gave me as a gift to,
In 1997, Christmas present.
It was probably a big investment for her.
And they are shoes of their time.
They are 1997 shoes.
And in the between times, between now and 1997, there have been a lot of shoe fashions come and go.
Pointy shoes for guys.
Little shoes.
Flat shoes.
Little shoes.
Little shoes.
We went through a phase there where little shoes were all the rage.
Now we're in a place where every... Like comically small?
Yeah, just like, whoa.
Toe shoes if we're running?
Toe shoes.
Crocs.
We're in a phase now where every single guy is wearing some kind of suede wingtip in a non-canonical color with a blue sole or a yellow sole.
I'd love to see them walk in the rain in those things, John.
It's very fancy time we're living in right now.
That's true.
If I had seen any one of those shoes 25 years ago, I would have seriously flipped out.
But now, you know, they're the shoes of the time, right?
And 10 years from now, 15 years from now, you're walking around in a pair of blue wingtips with yellow soles.
People are going to be like, oh, those shoes from 2014.
It's the shoes of an unsuccessful clown.
It's like the architecture that is flying up all around right now.
You look at the new 10-story condo buildings that are going up, and it's just like, oh, it already looks like 2013 when it was designed.
It looks like people who like the idea of comic books but haven't read a lot of comic books.
No, they have an idea of the future, but it's not particularly well thought out or tasteful.
Wait a minute, are there people that like the idea of comic books but haven't read comic books?
Oh gosh, yes.
It seems like the idea of comic books is to read comic books.
Yeah, well, you're vibrating on a different level than a lot of people.
In any case, these shoes are very much of their time, which is to say...
Well, Merlin, they are black leather.
They have very chunky soles, right?
This was the chunky sole time.
Oh, yes.
This is still the wallet chain years.
Wallet chain years, chunky soles.
Chunky soles.
Tall heel.
But in the front, they almost look like Clarks, right?
They're kind of a chukka style.
Or like a desert boot style.
But they're made out of like pretty thick leather almost to a sort of horse hide.
But the thing that sets them apart is this big, chunky black sole.
And honestly, I'm sure that there are people who are of the moment, people out there right now walking around with Macklemore haircuts and handlebar mustaches, who would look at these chunky shoes.
I don't know whether they would say, like, cool...
because those are retro because they are from when I was five years old or whether they're like so, so out there out, but here they are.
And I looked at them this morning and I was like, well, you know, I haven't touched you guys in a, in a little while, right?
It's been a couple of weeks since I put my hands on these shoes and said, are you, are you still here?
Are you okay?
And I put them on, I'm wearing them today.
They, they feel great.
I feel great in them.
But they are... They're in the... They're on the bench, let's say.
They're in reserve.
Oh, like second-string shoes?
Yeah, I'd say these were third-stringers, right?
Because I wore them a lot back in the day, and now they're just kind of... They're all the way... They're not quite mothballed, but they're in the... They're definitely not in regular rotation.
Right, they're in the garage, yeah.
But...
But I got to bring them out and touch them and say, you know, are you with me still?
And then wear them.
I'm going to spend a day or two in these shoes.
We're going to have a great time together.
But ultimately, the trajectory of these shoes is that they are making their way to pasture.
But it's been... It's like a weekend with a middle-aged child from your first marriage.
Yeah.
Yeah, right.
Just checking in.
Hey, how many of these weekends are we going to have together, right?
Yeah.
How are you doing?
How are you doing?
How are you doing?
Did I do a good job?
Did I do a good job with you?
And I mean, from 97, 96, 97 to 2002, boy, these shoes and I had some times together.
But I wasn't able in 2002 to say like, fly be free shoes off to the goodwill with you.
Because my sister gave them to me.
But they're not eternity shoes, right?
They're not like my life hat that I'm going to have for my life.
Right.
You have a life hat, right?
I assume everybody's got a life hat.
I was going to let it go by.
I don't know what a life hat is or whether I have one.
Well, it's a hat that when you, you know, over time, you always go to this hat when it's cold.
Oh, okay.
It's your number one cold hat.
And then after a while, you got your number one cold hat and it starts to be like, well, you know, you start to feel like, what if I lose this cold hat?
What if I lose this hat?
I'm going to, this kind of hat has been with me for a long time.
And then you start to kind of put the hat away a little bit.
Like, I don't need to wear this hat.
This is my good hat.
oh yeah no i think i know what you mean but wait then you come back you come back after a little while and you say that's my hat that's my hat what am i saving it for it's for wearing and then you bring the cold hat back that you that you that you put into like sentimental retirement and once you bring it back you realize oh shit this is my life hat
I'm going to wear this hat until I can no longer wear this hat.
Because a hat is not a... I mean, that's a hat that... The cold hat is not a... Your life hat is not a thing that you're going to accidentally leave in a cab.
Right.
Because your cold hat... It's your life hat.
It's your life hat.
That's right.
When you get up to get out of a cab, your last thought is, do I have my life hat?
You'd sooner leave your phone.
That's right.
Because you don't have a life phone.
No.
Your phone is just a temporary friend, and it's not even that good of a friend.
Yeah.
It's like somebody in college.
Yeah, it's somebody in college that's pretty hot, that maybe is a little bit cooler than you, and you feel kind of lucky to be its friend, but you also resent it a little bit, and you don't like that friend very much.
Yeah.
But that friend gives you an opportunity.
You're too good for each other in different ways.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Anyway, so here I am.
I'm in my clunky shoes.
I got my life hat.
I'm looking at it.
It's sitting right here in front of me.
What else do I need, really?
I mean, I'm halfway to a small bag right now.
Yeah.
Boy, it is very philosophical.
Because, I mean, the thing is, here's the thing, and I'm going to make this a little bit turns out.
I think most of the stuff, if you had people go, and especially people who don't travel a lot, let's say, or people who don't do a carry-on, and you ask them to put together their small bag, I think by the time they've packed that bag for a fifth time, they're going to be surprised what went in the first time.
Well, the first time somebody that doesn't travel very much, the first time somebody starts to pack a small bag, first thing they put in there, shampoo, right?
They start packing it with a bunch of shit, you know, their comb and their toothbrush in there.
That's a really good way to put it.
Stuff that you're likely to find in other places.
Yeah, stuff that you can boost from any drugstore.
If there were a zombie, like my wife watches The Walking Dead show, so I end up having to watch it.
It freaks me out, but I end up watching it.
I think you can learn a lot from that show.
They get by fine with one shirt.
One shirt.
Yeah.
I mean, the thing is, you're not trying to recreate civilization yet.
First, you need to stay alive.
Right?
Right.
Well, the concept of the small bag for me began in 1989 in a town called Avignon, France.
Sir Le Pond de Avignon.
Are you familiar with it?
On a danse, on a danse.
I don't know that particular chanson.
I know there was a pope there, and Picasso painted some hookers from there.
That's right.
There was.
There was a pope.
I refer to myself as the X of Avignon all the time, and nobody ever laughs.
Oh.
It breaks my heart.
It's Pope number two or Pope number one, depending on who you're talking to.
But surely you know.
Surely you know.
That is a song about the bridge of Avignon.
Oh, okay.
On which we all danced.
Which, you know, it's a Pope song.
Let's be honest.
It's about the Pope.
There's so many secret Pope songs.
I'm going to write that down.
Let's be honest.
It's about the Pope.
You know what?
You could make a hell of a mixtape of secret Pope songs.
so late one night i was on i was on a train and uh and i i arrived in avion and i didn't have money for a hotel
But I had a backpack, and the backpack had, in addition to, you know, a couple of pairs of jeans and some shirts and a tie in case I got asked to a nice dinner.
It had a carton of camel lights.
It had a Walkman and some cassette tapes, including Traveling Wilbury's Volume 2 and Tom Petty's first solo album.
Yeah.
I like to think I know you.
And it had like a rain jacket made by the Spider Skiwear Company, and it had some... Picture of Courtney Cox.
It had some Nike Lava Dome boots tied to the outside of it, and it had a hitchhiking sign that I'd written on a piece of cardboard that said, Anywhere.
You know, it was like, this was my bag, right?
And in addition to that, it had a patch sewn on the back of the bag.
This was my small bag concept at the time.
It had a patch on the outside from the Minnesota outward bound, the Voyageurs outward bound.
And underneath the patch, there were three $100 bills in a plastic, little plastic bag.
Damn it, that's smart.
Oh, that is good, John.
Just sewed on the patch so that worse comes to worse.
Yep, rip off the patch.
Rip off the patch, you got $300.
It had a pair of sunglasses in there.
What else did I have?
Obviously, socks and underwear, journal, camera.
This was a small bag that I was living out of and had been living out of for years.
The backpack itself was made by the company Mountainsmith.
Like I had everything in this bag that a person could possibly need to go around Europe and America and just be kind of dirty all the time and shower in gas stations and yet be ready for anything.
And by and large, how did it work?
How did it work out for you?
It was incredible.
For months and months and months, I lived out of this bag.
I bought a Switchblade in Italy, so I had my, you know, I had a Switchblade, too, in addition to probably, like, the multi-tool that I came with.
God, yeah, you must have really liked yourself then.
That sounds like a fun time.
Boy, I was a hot tamale.
Mm-hmm.
And so I get off the train in Avignon and I'm walking around.
It's dark.
It's kind of late at night.
I don't have money for a hotel.
And I walk over and there's this kind of park over by the, you know, a little ways away from the train station, kind of over by the freeway interchange.
And there are like six or seven guys sleeping in this park already.
They've got their small bags.
They're using their small bags as a pillow.
They're sleeping out in the park, and I'm like, oh, here are my people.
I'm going to pull up a piece of grass in this park and catch some Zs, and in the morning, I'm going to figure out my next move.
All on Z. All on Z, oui.
So I lay it all out.
Oh, I have a sleeping bag in the backpack.
I pull the sleeping bag out and I climb into it.
Now, a lot of the guys that are sleeping rough in this park do not have sleeping bags.
I would say the vast majority of them.
They're just curled up with all their clothes on.
and their bag as their pillow, but I have a sleeping bag putting me in the rare, you know, in the 1% of people sleeping in this Avignon Park.
My passport's around my neck in a little cotton passport bag.
It's just a bag the size of my passport that's around my neck.
And I wake up about an hour later,
And there's a guy standing over me in the dark.
And my bag, which I had been snuggling with, is gone.
Oh, my God.
And this guy, he's actually straddling me one foot on either side of me, and he's bending over.
His face is very close to mine.
I think that's what woke me up, the face vibrations.
Yeah, you know when there's a face nearby.
Yeah, face vibrations.
I wake up, and here's this face, and I can't really see him because it's very dark.
I'm in a park.
And he is looking... He is trying to find a way to get that passport from around my neck.
Oh, my God, John.
He is prepared to reach into my shirt.
And he knows that when he goes for it, then the fight's going to be on.
But he's, like, setting himself up for this grab, right?
And I think...
What he's going to do is he's going to cut... He has a knife.
He's going to cut the wire or cut the strap and grab this thing.
And then I'm going to wake up and maybe I'm going to be scared.
And it'll be too late because you're in a sleeping bag and he's already running through Avignon.
Right.
That's the strategy.
That's the strategy.
Well, so I wake up.
He's there.
He sees my eyes open.
We look at each other in the dark.
And then he starts to run.
And I am...
Nothing if not able to eject from a sleeping bag like a crossbow bolt.
Like I come out of that bag in my bare feet already running at 15 miles an hour.
And I'm right on his heels.
And he is a thin guy.
And he's moving fast.
And I'm right behind him.
And I'm cursing him.
and I chase him and chase him and chase him over hedges and roads and streets, and I'm right on his heels, and my feet are shredded, but I don't care.
And I feel very close to...
I don't think I'm going to wear him down.
I think I'm actually out of pure fury going to accelerate that last little bit to actually take him down.
And he leaps over a metal railing onto the, actually onto the highway.
And I'm right on his heels and my toe catches on the top of the metal railing.
And it sends me right down onto my face.
And then he goes off down the road at a kind of a trot now.
He's looking over his shoulder and just sort of like... Just the cool down trot.
As I lay there just splattered on the pavement.
And I limp back...
to my campsite and everything is gone.
Oh my God.
Because in the, in the chase, his friend or friends came as accomplice, his accomplice came and got the sleeping bag and the shoes and everything.
Well, what dicks?
Well, you know, it's all, it's all in the game.
It's all in the game.
That's right.
And they are, they by, you know, by, um,
Using my powers of perception and a guesstimate, I would say that they were Algerians and that they were here in France and that this was part of the nature of colonialism.
If you really want to get down to it.
I was one of the victims of the fallout.
So the 1% cozy in his sleeping bag.
That's right.
Gets his comeuppance.
Oh, but you lost 300 bucks, too.
Oh, yes.
In addition to a fucking carton of camel lights, which even then when a pack of camel lights was a dollar and a quarter.
Yeah, that's a lot of money.
Anyway.
I spent a couple... I spent the next few days... I mean, the first thing I did was limp over to a hotel, like a cheap little mama-san pension type of place.
And I said, listen...
I don't have any money and I'm covered with blood and mud, but I'm an American.
How do you do?
Nice to meet you.
I am able to get money because I am an American.
Of course.
Will you let me stay in your hotel tonight and I will pay you later?
And the power at the time of being an American, maybe it's a power still exists, but
uh i think maybe it exists less now but at the time the the little uh uh madame who ran this pension was like yeah that seems reasonable she got the sense that you were good for it right so she wasn't scared of you uh she respected you well or a little bit of maybe a little bit of both but a little bit of like right you are an american and you can go down to the american express office it has american right in the title and express it'll be fast
That's right.
Go down there and say, hey, somebody in America, send me some money.
And that's what I did.
I went down to the American Express office and I said, send me the money that I can get so I can pay this lady for the hotel.
And then I spent about a week scouring the garbage cans of Avignon because I was missing my journals.
I didn't care about the bag.
I didn't care about the lava domes.
I didn't care about the spider jacket.
And I knew the carton of cigarettes was gone, and I never expected to find anything, but I thought maybe that they would toss those journals in a garbage can.
And I wanted those journals.
And I never found them.
But in the course of this week of walking around, and I got some shoes on.
At some little place.
This was back when the dollar was strong against the franc.
So I had my shoes.
I had my shirt that I'd been wearing.
I had my pants that I'd been wearing.
And I went to one of those street markets and I bought a Greek fisherman's sweater and
one of those Saturday markets.
And I think at the time in Europe, every Saturday market had someone sitting there selling Greek sweaters because Greece was still a poor country and knitting sweaters was one of the things that they did for export.
So I bought a Greek sweater
And walking around the town looking for my stuff, when I would get tired, I would just kind of sit down on a park bench and doze off.
And then when I woke up, I would just wake up and stand up and start walking.
And the tragedy of losing the bag started to fade as I realized that I hadn't needed any of that stuff.
And prior to that, I thought that I was at the barest minimum.
I thought I had just the minimum of what you needed, but now I had none of it.
I had just these clothes.
And if I was invited to a fancy dinner, I did not have a tie, but I was not going to get invited to a fancy dinner in the condition I was in.
But I felt, for the first time, a kind of liberty I had never, I didn't even know existed, which was the liberty of total possessionlessness.
And I left Avion...
Sometime in, let's say, August.
This would have been 1989.
I left Avion in August of 89, and I continued to hitchhike and travel and sleep around and eat and live until Christmas.
And I never replaced the bag or bought another item.
And you got by okay?
I was as free as a man could be.
I would wash my clothes sometimes in a sink or whatever and hang them up to dry.
That got harder and harder as the winter came on.
In the summer, you wash your clothes, you put them on, and they dry as you walk around.
But that was less easy to do.
Doesn't that make you chafe?
You know, you develop calluses in the right places.
You develop those inner thigh calluses that all true great travelers have.
But ever since then, and I mean, honestly, I must have smelled to high heaven.
I mean, this is the thing.
You're not...
You're not doing it for other people.
You're not trying to make a good impression.
But I've been trying to replicate that feeling of complete liberty ever since.
And the first thing you add to that, the first time you're like, well, if I had a little bag, maybe it would help.
I'd have a bag for my life hat.
Change of socks.
Mm-hmm.
These are the true essentials, but still, that bag is an attractive nuisance.
You got to put stuff in it now.
Well, and when you wake up, you know, like, you're on a train, you open your eyes, you look out the window, oh, shit, you're in the town that you meant to go to, like, you have arrived, and then the train starts to move, and you realize you've slept through your stop, right?
If you don't have anything, you just stand up, run down the corridor, open the door, and step onto the station platform.
And the train takes off and you are like, ta-da, I did not miss my stop.
But if you have a bag...
you've got to turn around and get that bag.
And that few seconds of hesitation, particularly if you've opened the bag and have strewn your stuff around, then you've got to throw your stuff back in the bag, and then the train's moving too fast to get off, and then you're going to the next town, and then your destiny has changed.
Hmm.
I am so far from that liberty right now.
If you're thinking about a bag for your belt buckles, you're probably not quite there yet.
I got a rack for the belt buckles so that if one day I'm sitting in my living room and somebody is there and they're like, I really like your candlesticks.
I really like your globes.
Will you show me your other collections?
Yes.
I can stand up and say, where would you like to begin?
I suggest we start with the belt buckles.
And I can bring the rack of belt buckles out, and they're all there.
Yeah, I mean, any good tour guide will open by saying, have you been here before, and how much time do you have?
That's right.
You say, I'm going to give you an appropriate, if you've only got six or seven hours, let's start with the belt buckles.
Yeah, the place to start is not out in the barn looking at the collection of five horsepower motors.
Yeah.
The place to start is right here on a comfortable couch.
Would you like some tea?
Would you like some tea?
I think the place to start is with the lapel pins from various secret societies.
But then we move to the belt buckles.
What about the backstage passes for shows that you were not playing at?
That's a different container.
That's a cigar box.
I've got about 20 cigar boxes and they all have different... There's movie tickets from movies from the 80s.
There's
Of the sports events I went to with my dad.
Backstage passes for concerts that I was there only as a guest.
Arranged by level of access.
Yeah, and we could sit all afternoon.
Sure.
Want some more tea?
I mean, you know, I basically had a kid just so I could have somebody that I could force to sit in and get this tour once, right?
The entire tour.
When she's about 11 years old, I'm going to be like, okay, time to get to know daddy.
I'm not operating anywhere near your level, but something I picked up when I was traveling more often is, first of all, just a basic realization.
I think about how I packed when I was a kid.
I think about how I packed even through college.
And even through college, it was farcical how much stuff I would bring with me that I never even touched.
And that was a big thing.
And it's gotten a little bit better slowly over time.
But it finally got to a point where I realized, you know, I wear the same thing every day.
Basically, I need what I wear every day.
I need clothes for the event that I'm there for, which is like if I'm going to do a talk or something, I have to have some clean clothes and I need something to sit around in.
And everything else is extra.
The last two times I'm with you, the last two places I've stayed, I asked them for toothpaste and shaving cream.
I didn't even bring that with me.
And they bring it.
It's a W, man.
They'll bring you up some pretty nice toothpaste.
Sure they will.
This is what I call the freedom of Dave Bazan.
Right?
Dave Bazan... That sounds like a young adult novel.
The freedom of Dave Bazan.
At a certain point, Dave realized that what he liked to wear was a black t-shirt, a red hoodie with a white zipper, and some jeans.
You can get that stuff.
You get it, and you got it, and you're done.
You can get it anywhere.
And he just decided, like, clothes just didn't... He didn't want to use even the small part of his brain...
Uh, that it would, that it required to really like worry about clothes, let alone the big part of your brain.
If you're really going to worry about stuff has to match and contrast and be interesting.
Just like, and you put it on, you look at yourself in the mirror and you go, is that me?
Is this me?
Oh boy.
Is that a rat hole?
You take it off and you put on another thing.
That's for a better man than, uh, than I am.
I'll tell you that.
But so Dave was just like, I eliminate all of this from my existence, and I'm just going with this thing.
This is going to be me.
And he does it.
He does it.
And it is his, you know, if you see Dave Bazan in a collared shirt,
He might as well be wearing a fake mustache.
You wouldn't even recognize it.
On top of his regular mustache?
You just go, who's that guy?
He kind of looks like Dave Bazan, but he's in a collared shirt.
Hello.
So he's freed himself.
He has liberated himself from all these small... Freedom of Dave Bazan.
That's right.
All these small tyrannies of, like, does this thing fit right?
They won't stick to him.
They're ineligible, those problems.
Right.
He's just, he's got a, he has basically, like, his superhero costume.
And it's a red hoodie.
Here's my other thing, though.
And this has actually been really helpful.
And this is a life hack.
But the time that I think about what I really need for a trip, the best time for me to think about what I need for a trip is when I'm in, in my case, like a hotel room.
I'm already in a hotel room, and I'm thinking about what I really need.
So I started this text file a couple years ago of, like, when I think of something I really want.
My small bag for packing now has gotten very simple.
It's basically what I just described to you, right?
I don't bring all the entertainment equipment anymore.
Really, you know, you've got an iPhone or iPad for the kid or whatever.
But in my case, you know what?
I like a large cup to drink water out of.
I drink a lot of water.
I want a large cup.
Bring a large cup.
It's small.
You can stuff stuff in it, things like that.
Bring a large cup.
Well, it's like my version of a towel, right?
But here's what I'm trying to say is that like when you're sitting there and you're stressed out and thinking about packing, stress to me is what makes people jam way too much stuff into any kind of bag.
It's thinking there's innumerable things.
What happens if I get invited to a nice party?
What happens if I get invited to three nice parties?
Yeah.
Right?
And so – but then you end up doing – it's kind of a similar problem to the way people deal with backup, which is if they're constantly kind of blindly backing stuff up here and there.
It's not that useful because they wouldn't know where to get it if they needed it.
So in my case, I try to really dumb all of that way down to go like, what's the most essential stuff I need?
You know, pretty much almost anywhere I go, I'm near a mall.
So if I shit myself, I can totter over to the mall and get another pair of pants.
I don't need four pairs of pants.
That's not going to be a nice trip over to the mall, but –
Hey, you know, you can't plan for everything.
This isn't Evan Yeun.
At the W Hotel, you can call down to the front desk and say, hey, hi, this is Merlin up in room 1404.
I just shit myself.
Can you get somebody to run over to the mall?
Anywhere, anytime.
Yeah, I just took a giant shit in my pants.
Could you bring me up some 3430 anything?
I got my shoes shined the other day.
Can you give me a shout-out, though, for that idea?
The idea is this is very, very high level.
But if you end up traveling a lot, and I'm trying to give you a freebie here for working on the small bag idea, because the problem is, on the one hand, yes, let's take it as red.
Let's say it, because it needs to be said.
You need to be fucking thinking about your small bag a little more than you think, but you need to be acting on the small bag also more often than you think.
So...
The thing is, thinking about thinking when you're in your house with all that junk and all your belt buckles, that's not the greatest time to think about a small bag.
Maybe go force yourself into some privation and figure out what you really need.
Become the 99%.
The best small bag, the best go bag, is the bag you're already living out of.
What if it's not small?
Well, it has to be small enough.
It's a small bag in concept.
There's the concept of the small bag or the go bag.
And then there's the idea of the always ready bag.
So you're saying like you're already probably got most of what you need like in a backpack.
I feel like most people's small bag is actually their car.
Yep.
They already have a small bag and it's their car and they have everything.
Or maybe their office, their desk.
Right.
I got my shoes shined at the airport, and the shoe shine guy was telling me this story about how he was a twin, a fraternal twin, but his sister was like, she was nine pounds when they were born, and he was four pounds.
He was trying to tell me that he was the runt.
Hmm.
And it was a pretty involved story.
It seems like an unusual thing to bring up when you're shining somebody's shoes.
Well, you know, I mean, you got to talk about something.
To each his own.
But at a certain point, he must have recognized something in me and he looked up at me and he said, you carry a fork and spoon with you?
And I was like, huh, no, I don't.
He was like, you got to carry a fork and spoon.
And I said, how am I going to get on an airplane with a fork and spoon?
And he said, oh, I mean, it can be plastic.
It can be wood.
But he said, I don't go anywhere.
You traveling constantly with a wooden fork.
He said, I don't go anywhere without a fork and spoon.
And I was like, there was a time when I did carry a fork and spoon.
Like a mess kit.
Yeah, now I've somehow, I think I'm too good to carry a fork and spoon.
I'm not too good to carry a fork and spoon.
That was a wake-up call.
Wake-up call for you.
It was.
I was like, I should fucking have a fork and spoon.
Well, a few hours later, I'm on the subway in New York City, and I'm looking around.
You remember the story about the guy with the nice boots on the subway in New York City?
Yes, of course.
The guy with dignity.
That's right.
Well, I'm looking around the subway in New York City, and somehow, either everybody in New York's been listening to our podcast, or times have changed.
Yeah.
But everybody on the subway had some like really expensive, pretty cool boots.
Like the era of small shoes is over.
We are in the era of... Episode 60, Rit in his boots.
Rit in his boots, right.
We are in the era now of like... I'm sorry, I can't get past the small stuff.
I keep imagining almost like foot binding people in Park Slope.
That's what it seems.
That's what it looked like to me.
Fucking small shoes.
Was it like forced perspective?
But now everybody's wearing these work boots that do not actually comport with the jobs that they do.
Yeah, it's the F-150 with no scratches in the bed.
Yeah, and I'm looking around on the subway and I'm like, wow, everybody's got really cool boots in New York.
And I'm wearing my travel shoes.
That Clarks?
My travel shoes are actually a pair of like, you know, they're like pull-on beetle boots.
Oh, like those Australian ankle boots?
That's right.
You get in, you get out, you know?
Multipurpose.
But I went from thinking I should have a wooden fork that I carry with me everywhere in case somebody offers me some stew...
Like, if somebody's like, you want a little bit, you want to get in on this stew?
And you're like, yeah.
And they go, get your fork.
Oh, man.
I don't have a fork.
I don't have a fork.
And then the answer is going to be like, sorry.
The offer was for stew, not for stew with a fork.
What did you want me to do?
Like, set you a place at the table?
What, am I going to carry forks for everybody?
I'm making stew.
I opened a can and put it over a fire.
If you want some stew, get your fork.
If you don't have a fork, then you must not need the stew.
You want some stew, get your fork.
Yeah.
And so I went from that, and just a few hours later, I'm sitting on the subway, and I'm like, shit, I'm not repping any boots here.
Like, I got boots on, but they're not.
I mean, it's like Red Wing, Red Wing, Red Wing, Red Wing.
White's boots and Chippewa boots.
I mean, the subway was just like a boot store.
And I've got some boots, but in order to be repping those boots on that New York City subway, I would have had to pack an entirely different small bag.
I think you made the right decision.
I think so too, but it's funny where your mind can go.
Half of my mind is thinking you needed to get on that plane with a fork and that's it.
You're going to New York, bring a fork.
I'd be thinking, what could have been different for me?
How many things was my perception way off?
Because I knew in my heart I did not have a wooden fork with me.
Yeah, right.
You don't even walk over and say, hmm, stew smells good.
Oh my gosh, so many doors I wouldn't even walk up to.
Because you're like, shit, I don't have a fork.
Just turn around.
Just walk away.
And then a few hours later, I'm thinking, I should have brought a bigger bag so that I could have some boots to be part of this boot party here on the F train.
And it's just like, no, no, no.
Quiet down.
Quiet down, chorus of haberdashers.
You need a fork that you can take through security and everything else is gravy.
You know, I never would have thought of that.
I never would have thought of having a wooden fork.
I've got some silicone bowls that I got from like a camping store.
And you get this pack.
It's one big bowl, one little bowl.
And if you imagine something that looks like the size of a grapefruit with the top cut off –
And it's made out of very thin black silicone so that it's collapsible.
Right.
And that's actually surprisingly handy to have in situations.
Well, it's true.
And it takes up no space and no weight.
In my experience of eating a campfire stew, you can always eat out of the pot.
Yep.
You don't need to bring a pot.
There's already a pot there.
But you've got to have a fork.
And in the absence of a fork, honestly, you can use a sharpened stick, but you're not going to get that through security.
Right.
You know what?
I feel like when I leave here today, I'm going to go buy a wooden fork and spoon.
Yeah, I don't blame you.
Not a giant one.
That's a sign that the game is on.
A small, like, little camp kit.
Yep.
That you can get onto an airplane.
But John, John, this is the entire point.
This is the entire point.
Well, it's not the entire point, but it's a point.
It's a point that that's the thing you never would have thought of.
If you hadn't had that little kismet serendipity experience with the crazy shoeshine guy, you wouldn't have thought about cutlery.
Now you're rethinking.
You've got a whole new thought technology for the small bag you want to pack.
He's helping me by asking me the right question.
Right.
Like he he looked at me and was like, what does this guy need to know today?
And, you know, and he interrupted himself because he he really was in the middle of this story about how his his big sister got all the milk.
She weighed twice as much as him at birth.
Yeah, but he looked up and he was like, I don't know, he stopped his story and he was like, do you have, are you carrying a fork and spoon?
He could just tell.
And I was like, you know, and I was sitting there like, I'm getting my shoe shine.
I'm a big wheel.
I'm looking around.
Hey, everybody.
How's it going?
I'm getting on an airplane.
Anytime now.
Hey, my flight's just in a few minutes.
Thought I'd get my shoes shucked.
And then immediately I'm reset.
Like, fuck.
Fuck.
You can't prepare yourself for that.
You never know when those moments are going to come along.
But it's right.
He was right.
And that is the right knowledge.
So where are you – as we stand here today, where do you stand with the small bag?
Because it seems to me like you're not really talking about the canonical John Roderick small bag.
You're talking about like the secondary small bags.
I mean like in my case, like we don't even have all of our yearbooks in the same place.
Like if we wanted to save like family photos, they're in like five places in the house.
That's the kind of thing with the belt buckle.
That's what I get with the belt buckle is like if I had – if this place was on fire and I could grab like three things, what would I grab?
Is that kind of what you're saying?
Well, and the thing about yearbooks – Let's take this right.
You got your daughter and your wooden fork and your boots.
And then it's like what's next?
You got to train your daughter to egress the building on her own.
You know, like you got to say, listen, when the house is on fire, when I yell, when I yell, hit the bricks, house on fire, hit the bricks.
You've got to, you got to handle that.
You got to handle that angle because I'm going to be grabbing yearbooks and stuff.
Yeah.
Everybody knows their job.
But what I discovered about yearbooks is you can get any yearbook on the internet.
There you go.
So let your yearbooks burn.
Somebody wrote on there, Merlin, stay sweet.
See you next year.
I hope you're less fat in biology class.
Love you like a sis.
Shut up.
Shut up.
Family photos you got to get.
They have to be in one grab bag.
But I think about this every once in a while.
Like, the whole house burns down.
Everything is gone.
Yeah.
Less freedom.
What's the one thing that you would be like, oh, shit.
I can't tell you.
I couldn't tell you one thing.
I couldn't tell you either.
I think I would be fine.
I would personally, I'm sad to say, be fine with almost nothing.
Well, and that is illustrative.
Well, no, it's sad.
It's sad.
I mean like we did a big purge a few years ago.
I think it was before we moved.
We did one of these – I read this book about getting rid of clutter in your life and it had a really big impact on me.
The basic thesis of the book is don't have anything in your life that's not getting you closer to the life you want, which means systematically, ruthlessly getting rid of everything that cleaves you to a life you never had or no longer have.
Which, if you think about it, goes for almost everything.
And that's where you get into, like, all these clothes that don't fit anymore and stuff like that.
And I was ruthless.
I mean, I really worked the system.
And I went – and the two things – this is going to sound dumb, but two things I regret.
There were some actually not holy, not disgusting rock and roll T-shirts.
I kind of wish I kept a couple of them.
I threw out all of them.
Every T-shirt I had bought at a rock show or been given –
Like at a convention or whatever, I threw out pretty much all of it.
It was bags and bags and bags of shitty T-shirts.
So I kind of miss some of those.
The other one is by accident, we had very systematically taken all of our many different bags, like Timbuktu bags, cool backpacks, and put them all in one contractor bag, which accidentally got thrown away.
Oh!
So I wish I hadn't thrown away like eight Timbuktu bags.
All the bags.
All the bags.
And you know how I am with bags.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, I do know.
So that I regret.
But, you know, it comes up once a month or so.
I think, boy, that was a really cool – you know, when I was at that Microsoft event in Seattle where they put us up to W and they gave me that cool messenger bag?
Gone.
Gone.
That was a nice messenger bag.
It was a messenger bag that felt like a briefcase.
And now I'm going to cry.
I promised myself I wouldn't cry.
I don't know what it would be that I grab.
You know, ever since I started calling this hat my life hat, I would grab it now.
See, I gotta go over this with my daughter, though, because first of all, I have to convince my daughter, first of all, honey, you say you're going to carry this.
We're going to go and ride scooters.
Well, first of all, you do not need to bring a stuffed animal to ride a scooter.
If you do want to bring a stuffed animal to ride a scooter, you need to put it in a backpack that goes on your back.
That does not mean mommy's tiny purse that you put on your wrist.
That does not count because let me explain.
Everything you think you're going to carry for even 10 minutes, I am going to end up carrying everything.
That's right.
And I got to be that guy.
When we get there and we're not even up to the point where we start scooting, she goes, could you hold rabbit friend?
And I say, you know what?
I love rabbit friend, but this is exact.
Just so you know, when I sound like a crazy person back at the house, this is what I'm talking about.
So now I'm carrying my wife's purse on my wrist with a rabbit in it.
And that doesn't work for me.
No.
So first of all, I have to help her understand what a bad person she is.
And second of all, show her that if Rabbit Friend got dropped on Muni, you'd be bummed.
Yes.
Do not bring heirloom-quality stuffed animals onto things because you will eventually forget it and be sad.
That's right.
I mean, the people that have dogs that they equip with saddlebags that are carrying their food.
Like a pannier?
A pannier.
That's right.
I always feel like...
Right on.
Like, that dog is... That dog is toting its own barge.
Oh, it's curious.
I thought you meant like you had the companion sandwich.
You're saying it's got kibble.
It's got kibble in a bag.
It's got kibble in one side and... Like duty bags?
Probably kibble in the other side.
LAUGHTER
And the thing is, I admire those people.
The people that tie their dog's shit to the dog's collar.
In a bag?
You haven't seen this?
The dog poops.
Oh, not their feces.
The owner picks up the poop in a bag.
Oh, no.
And then ties the bag to the dog's collar.
That sounds like... That sounds like evil.
Is it like punishment?
I don't think so.
I think it's just that they don't understand.
They have never put themselves... They claim to be animal lovers.
They claim to love their dog.
Loving animal companions.
But they have never put themselves in the dog's paws long enough to imagine, how would I like it if my shit was tied around my neck?
Like, I'm a dog.
I am shitting on the ground, and I expect to leave it behind.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You guys.
If you want to play out some kind of little fantasy opera where you pick up my poop, that's fine.
But don't strap it to my head.
Are you going to make me fucking carry it on my collar?
And you want me to be enthusiastic?
I see this all the time.
I don't know what it says.
I've never seen that, and that's miserable.
Don't they have garbage cans?
Can't you just throw them away?
Well, it's like maybe what they are expressing is like, I didn't throw my dog's poop in your garbage can.
Maybe it's some kind of martyr thing, like liberal martyr thing.
It's like an I Voted sticker, but with poop.
That's right.
They're making their dog bear the burden.
But if I could carry my kibble in a saddlebag...
Yeah.
I think I would, I think I would do it.
You strap it to your daughter or you keep it on yourself.
But I say, but I say this to, I say this to my daughter too.
Like,
Pack in and pack out.
Again, bed bunny does not leave the bed, first of all.
It's right in the name.
It's right in the name.
Bed bunny.
Bed bunny.
Not living room bunny.
Not car bunny.
There is a car bunny.
That's a totally different bunny.
That's right.
You leave bed bunny in the bed, car bunny in the car.
But if we're going out on an adventure, you got to schlep your own stuff.
You got to tote your own barge.
You got to lift your own bale.
Yes.
I think if you tote a barge, people are going to expect you to lift the bale as well.
You can't just lift the bale.
You also have to tote the barge.
You tote the barge and then you lift the bale.
Can I also just give you a thought on twins?
I just want to say, I want to get this out of the way and I'll probably cut this out because I realize how normative it is.
I'm first of all kind of freaked out by twins as a thing.
All twins or just identical twins?
The whole – identical twins I think are pretty freaky.
But the thing about identical twins is if you claim to be an identical twin and that identical twin is still alive, we can put you right next to each other and we can tell if you're telling the truth.
If you say you're an identical twin, right, there should be a way.
Well, you know, you put them next to each other.
I think a lot of the people who say the fraternal twins –
I'm not saying they're lying, but it's very difficult.
If that man's sister literally weighed twice as much as him at birth, I'm not sure that fully qualifies as twins, and I think he might be making it up.
Do you know who Nels Klein is?
I don't think so.
Nels Klein is a guitar player.
He has... Is it Nelson?
No, not Nelson.
Those guys are twins.
Okay.
Nels Klein is in Wilco right now, but he's played with Mike Watt.
He's done a lot of jazz type of music.
He's an avant-garde guitar player.
Let's call him that.
And a very nice man.
And he is a mirror twin.
Do you know what a mirror twin is?
Where he has the same features, but on the opposite side?
Mm-hmm.
He's got his lazy eye on one side, the other one the other way?
His brother is an identical twin, but so identical that they are mirrors.
His brother parts his hair on the left.
Nels parts his hair on the right.
Oh, my goodness.
Nels is left-handed.
His brother is right-handed.
Nels is left-handed, but he plays the guitar right-handed.
Oh, my God.
Like, twin science at a much higher level, and Nels is like, you know, my brother and I have very, very different personalities.
There's always an evil twin.
Like, in a way, like, we are opposite.
And I'm like, you guys are identical twins, but mirror images of one another, and that includes the personality?
Oh.
You don't watch enough science fiction.
There's always an evil twin.
Usually they're required by law to have a goatee.
Well, yeah, and maybe I should have asked him, does his brother have a goatee?
But his brother is some kind of like scientist in California.
Nels is a guitar player.
I think this could be one of those liar's paradox, cretins things, where if you ask them, think about that.
You could take two twins and you ask them, are you the evil twin?
There must be a way, there must be a logical puzzle where you could ask the right question to make them prove which one's the evil twin.
Nels cannot tell a lie.
Yeah, exactly.
He says, I am evil twin.
Would you say...
What would your twin say that you are the evil twin?
There's got to be a way you can – I'm not a logician.
Right.
Oh, man.
Nels – his middle name is Courtney.
No, really?
Nels Courtney Klein.
Can that be true?
He's an identical twin brother, Alex Klein.
Is that right?
I'll see if he has a funny middle name, too.
Courtney Kline.
He doesn't appear to have a middle name.
See, the whole thing's already falling apart.
See what I'm saying?
Because you're supposed to name them in funny pairs, right?
If I had twins, I would definitely name them in some kind of bookmatched twin name.
A little too clever.
You know, I gave my daughter a clever name.
She'll be wearing that forever.
And I think about it all the time.
I think back three and a half years ago to my three and a half years ago self.
And I want to just, you know, it's not the type of clever name where I want to grab my three and a half year old, three and a half year ago self and like shake him by the lapels.
But I do want to put an arm around him.
At least take him up to the whiteboard and walk him through some things.
Yeah, just be like, hey, I get it.
Your daughter has the same name as two other kids I know with the same name and all three are spelled differently.
But I just want to be like, you know, I love everything about this.
But, you know, maybe just settle down a little bit.
Just settle down.
Just settle it down.
You know, like, this is great.
The impulse is great.
You didn't go with the bell tones, though, which is good.
In my kids' class, there's two Aedans, a Jaden, and a Caden.
I might be concatenating some of that from last year.
But there are certain names where you've got to have a letter after it.
You know, like you're going to be Caden F or whatever.
Yeah, I feel like when you and I were in school when we were kids.
Everyone was named Jason, Todd, or Jeff.
yeah maybe maybe a rick you get a jennifer and elisa a joe uh you know a john but i mean more kates i really i love the name kate oh i know some kates i don't know i don't i don't know if you do want to know some kates it's just like it sounds right i've known some fucking kates oh kates kates kate sounds like a handful
Kate is a fucking handful is exactly right.
Because the thing is, like, Catherine's are already a problem.
Catherine with a K or Catherine with a C?
Either one.
Catherine's with a K are a much bigger problem than Catherine's with a C. But, you know, as soon as they start going by cat... Oh, forget it.
No, like, get away.
But a Kate...
Kate is just trying to convince you that she's not a cat.
And so you should assume that she's reasonable, right?
It's a cat in Kate's clothing.
You know what I mean?
Kate is a gal that can wear jeans.
Kate's perky has a high ponytail.
Sure, she'll help you clear... She's been working since she was really young.
She'll help you clear the yard.
Like Kate is... Yes.
She's down with the struggle, but what a handful.
Kate is carrying a fucking pistol.
What about Kat?
Oh, come on.
Come on, Kat.
I mean, Cat is... Cat, you guys have some times.
But you're not going to let Cat... You're not going to let her use your wooden floor.
First of all, don't let Cat know where you live.
Okay.
Okay.
Kate's one of those names, though.
I always fantasize is the wrong word, but I always aspired to have a girlfriend named Kate.
Yep, yep.
What a great name.
I mean, who could not love Kate?
You just say, I want to introduce you to my friend Kate.
You're already falling in love.
You haven't even met her.
This is Kate.
Oh, man.
Katie.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
You think that's a different thing, a Katie?
Katie is so different.
Katie's a graphic designer.
Ha, ha, ha.
I think Kate has a garden, but like a kind of foxy garden.
Oh, Kate has a garden for sure.
And she's growing some plants that need to be explained.
Stop, stop, stop.
Wooden fork.